How understanding divorce can help your marriage | Jeannie Suk Gersen

Prevodilac: Ivana Korom Lektor: Aleksandar Korom

"Till death do us part."

"Dok nas smrt ne rastavi."

When we get married, we make vows.

Stupanjem u bračnu zajednicu, dajemo zavete.

To love, to honor,

Da volimo, da poštujemo,

to forsake all others.

da odustanemo od svih ostalih.

Or as a friend of mine put it,

Ili kako bi to moj prijatelj rekao,

"Not to leave dirty socks all over the house."

''Da ne ostavljamo prljave čarape po kući''

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

We may fall short of some of our promises

Možda ne ispunimo neka od naših obećanja,

some of the time,

nekada,

but one that will always hold true is that first one:

ali ono koje će uvek važiti je to prvo:

"Till death do us part."

"Dok nas smrt ne rastavi."

Because spouses are bound together by their decisions,

Zato što su supružnici vezani njihovim odlukama,

in marriage and in divorce.

u braku i u razvodu.

So, a mentor of mine once told me,

Kao što mi je moj mentor jednom rekao,

"You should always marry your second husband first."

"Uvek bi prvo bi trebalo da se udaš za svog drugog supruga."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

What did that mean?

Šta li to znači?

It didn't mean that Mr. Right is somehow waiting behind door number two.

Ne znači da onaj pravi nekako čeka iza drugih vrata.

It meant that if you want to understand

To znači da ukoliko želite da razumete

what makes a marriage work,

šta to čini brak uspešnim,

you should think about how a marriage ends.

trebalo bi da razmišljate o tome kako se on završava.

Divorce makes extremely explicit

Razvod veoma jasno pokazuje

what the tacit rules of marriage are.

koja su to neizgovorena pravila braka.

And everyone should understand those rules,

Svi bi trebalo da razumeju ta pravila,

because doing so can help us build better marriages from the beginning.

jer nam to pomaže da izgradimo bolje brakove od samog početka.

I know, it doesn't sound very romantic,

Znam da to ne zvuči veoma romantično,

but sometimes the things we do out of love

ali nakada stvari koje radimo iz ljubavi

can be the very things that make it hard for that love to last.

mogu biti one koje otežavaju toj ljubav da traje.

I am a family-law professor.

Ja sam profesor porodičnog prava,

I have taught students,

učila sam studente,

I've been an attorney,

bila sam advokat,

I'm a mediator

posrednica sam

and I've also been divorced.

i bila sam razvedena.

And I'm now happily married to my actual second husband.

I sada sam srećno udata za svog, uistinu, drugog muža.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

The reason that I think this is so important

Mislim da je ovo veoma važno

is that I think everyone should be having some of these very painful conversations

jer smatram da bi svi trebalo da vode ove veoma bolne razovore

that divorced people experience.

koje razvedeni ljudi proživljavaju.

These are painful conversations about what we contributed,

Ovo su bolni razgovori o tome šta smo mi doprineli,

what we owe,

šta dugujemo,

what we are willing to give

šta smo spremni da damo,

and what we give up.

i od čega smo spremni da odustanemo.

And also, what's important to us.

Takođe, šta to smatramo važnim.

Those conversations should be happening in a good marriage,

Ovi razgovori treba da se vode u dobrom braku,

not after it is broken.

ne nakon što on pukne.

Because when you wait until it's broken,

Jer onda kada čekate da on pukne,

it's too late.

već je kasno.

But if you have them early on,

Ali ukoliko ih vodite od početka,

they can actually help build a better marriage.

oni mogu pomoći da se izgradi bolji brak.

Three ideas that I want to put on the table

Tri ideje želim da iznesem

for you to consider.

i da ih uzmete u obzir.

One, sacrifice should be thought of as a fair exchange.

Prva, o žrtvi treba razmišljati kao o ravnopravnoj razmeni.

Two, there's no such thing as free childcare.

Druga, ne postoji nešto kao što je besplatna briga o deci.

And three, what's yours probably becomes ours.

I treća, ono što je tvoje verovatno postaje naše.

So let me talk about each of these ideas.

Sada ću govoriti o svakoj od ovih tri.

The first one,

Prva,

sacrifice should be a fair exchange.

žrtva treba biti ravnopravna razmena.

Take the example of Lisa and Andy.

Uzmite primer Lise i Endija.

Lisa decides to go to medical school early in the marriage,

Lisa je odlučila da studira medicinu na početku braka,

and Andy works to support them.

dok Endi radi da ih izdržava.

And Andy works night shifts in order to do that,

Da bi to uspeo, Endi radi i noćne smene

and he also gives up a great job in another city.

i odustao je od odlične poslovne ponude u drugom gradu.

He does this out of love.

On ovo radi iz ljubavi.

But of course, he also understands

Ali naravno, on takođe i razume

that Lisa's degree will benefit them both in the end.

da će Lisina diploma na kraju koristiti i njemu i njoj.

But after a few years, Andy becomes neglected and resentful.

Ali nakon nekoliko godina, Endi biva zapostavljen i postaje ogorčen.

And he starts drinking heavily.

Počinje mnogo da pije.

And Lisa looks at her life and she looks at Andy and she thinks,

Lisa pogleda svoj život, i pogleda Endija i misli:

"This is not the bargain I wanted to make."

"Ovo nije ono na šta sam pristala".

A couple of years go by,

Par godina pođe,

she graduates from medical school,

i ona završi medicinski fakultet,

and she files for a divorce.

i podnese zahtev za razvod.

So in my perfect world,

U mom savršenom svetu,

some kind of marriage mediator would have been able to talk to them

nekakav posrednik u braku bi mogao da priča sa njima

before Lisa went to medical school.

pre nego što je Lisa otišla na medicinski fakultet.

And at that point, that mediator might have asked,

I u tom trenu, posrednik bi možda pitao:

"How exactly does fair exchange work?

"Kako zapravo funkcioniše ravnopravna razmena?

What does it look like in your marriage?

Kako to izgleda u vašem braku?

What are you willing to give and what are you willing to owe?"

Šta ste spremni da date, i šta ste spremni da dugujete?"

So in a divorce,

U razvodu,

Lisa now probably is going to owe Andy financial support for years.

Lisa će verovatno dugovati Endiju finansijsku podršku godinama.

And Andy ...

I Endi...

no amount of financial support is going to make him feel compensated

ne postoji ta količina finansijske podrške koja će moći da nadoknadi

for what he gave up,

ono od čega je odustao,

and the lost traction in his career.

i gubitak u njegovoj karijeri.

If the two of them had thought about their split early on,

Da su njih dvoje razmišljali o rastanku na samom početku,

what might have gone differently?

šta bi bilo drugačije?

Well, it's possible that Lisa would have decided

Pa, moguće je da bi Lisa odlučila

that she would take loans or work a part-time job

da uzme pozajmice ili radi povremeno

in order to support her own tuition

da bi finansirala svoju školarinu

so that Andy wouldn't have had to bear the entire burden for that.

tako da Endi ne bi morao da preuzme ceo teret na sebe.

And Andy might have decided to take that job in that other city

I Endi bi možda odlučio da prihvati taj posao u drugom gradu

and maybe the two of them would have commuted for a couple of years

i možda bi njih dvoje putovali par godina

while Lisa finished her degree.

dok Lisa ne dobije svoju diplomu.

So let's take another couple, Emily and Deb.

Hajde da uzmemo drugi par, Emili i Deb.

They live in a big city,

Žive u velikom gradu,

they have two children, they both work.

imaju dvoje dece i obe rade.

Emily gets a job in a small town,

Emili dobija posao u malom gradu

and they decide to move there together.

i odlučuju da se tamo presele zajedno.

And Deb quits her job to look after the children full-time.

Deb pritom daje otkaz na svom poslu da bi čuvala decu sve vreme.

Deb leaves behind an extended family,

Deb ostavlja iza sebe svoju porodicu,

her friends

prijatelje,

and a job that she really liked.

i taj posao koji je puno volela.

And in that small town, Deb starts to feel isolated and lonely.

I u tom malom gradu, Deb počinje da se oseća izolovano i usamljeno.

And 10 years later, Deb has an affair,

I 10 godina kasnije, ima aferu

and things fall apart.

i stvari odu u nepovrat.

Now, the marriage mediator who would have come in

Sada, bračni posednik koji bi se uključio

before they moved and before Deb quit her job

pre nego što su se one preselile i Deb ostavila svoj posao

might have asked them,

bi ih možda pitao:

"What do your choices about childcare

"Kako vaši izbori o čuvanju dece

do to the obligations you have to each other?

utiču na vaše obaveze jedne prema drugoj?

How do they affect your relationship?

Kako utiču na vašu vezu?

Because you have to remember

Zato što morate zapamtiti

that there is no such thing as free childcare."

da ne postoji nešto kao što je besplatna briga o deci."

If the two of them had thought about their split beforehand,

Da je jedna od njih dve mislila o raskidu pre,

what would have gone differently?

šta bi bilo drugačije?

Well, maybe Deb would have realized a little better

Možda bi Deb shvatila

how much her family and her friends were important to her

koliko su joj važni porodica i prijatelji

precisely in what she was taking on,

u situaciji za koju se odlučivala,

which is full-time parenthood.

a to je da bude samo posvećena roditeljstvu.

Perhaps Emily,

Možda bi Emili,

in weighing the excitement of the new job offer

vagajući uzbuđenje zbog dobitka novog posla,

might have also thought about what that would mean for the cost to Deb

razmislila šta bi to značilo za Deb

and what would be owed to Deb

i šta bi njoj dugovala

as a result of her taking on full-time parenthood.

uzevši u obzir da je Deb posvećena samo roditeljstvu.

So, let's go back to Lisa and Andy.

Vratimo se sada Lisi i Endiju.

Lisa had an inheritance from her grandmother

Lisa je imala nasledstvo od svoje bake

before the marriage.

pre braka.

And when they got married, they bought a home,

I kada su se uzeli, kupili su kuću

and Lisa put that inheritance toward a down payment on that home.

i Lisa je dala deo nasledstva za tu kupovinu.

And then Andy of course worked to make the mortgage payments.

I onda je Endi radio da bi otplatio kredit.

And all of their premarital and marital property

Njihovo vlasništvo pre i tokom braka

became joined.

postalo je zajedničko.

That inheritance is now marital property.

Sada je to nasledstvo bračno vlasništvo.

So, in a split, what's going to happen?

I šta će se dogoditi nakon raskida?

They're going to have to sell the house and split the proceeds,

Moraće da prodaju kuću i podele prihode

or one of them can buy the other out.

ili će je jedno od njih otkupiti od ovog drugog.

So this marriage mediator,

Bračni posrednik,

if they had talked to them before all of this happened,

da su razgovarali sa njim pre svega ovoga,

that person would have asked,

pitao bi ih:

"What do you want to keep separate and what do you want to keep together?

"Šta želite da zadržite odvojeno, a šta želite da imate zajedno?

And how does that choice

I kako taj izbor

actually support the security of the marriage?

podržava sigurnost braka?

Because you have to remember

Morate zapamtiti

that what's yours, probably, will become ours,

da će ono što je vaše verovatno postati naše,

unless you actually are mindful and take steps to do otherwise."

ukoliko ne preduzmete nešto da bude drugačije."

So if they had thought about their split,

Stoga, da su razmišljali o raskidu

maybe they would have decided differently,

možda bi odlučili drugačije,

maybe Lisa would have thought,

možda bi Lisa pomislila:

"Maybe the inheritance can stay separate,"

"Možda nasledstvo može ostati odvojeno,"

and saved for a day when they might actually need it.

i sačuvala bi za dan kada bi im zapravo zatrebalo.

And maybe the mortgage that they took on wouldn't have been as onerous,

I možda ne bi morali da uzmu tako veliki kredit

and maybe Andy wouldn't have had to work so hard to make those payments.

i možda Endi ne bi morao toliko da radi da taj novac obezbedi.

And maybe he would have become less resentful.

I možda bi postao manje ogorčen.

Maybe they would have lived in a smaller house

Možda bi živeli u manjoj kući

and been content to do that.

i uživali u tome.

The point is,

Poenta je,

if they had had a divorce-conscious discussion

da su vodili razgovor o razvodu

about what to keep separate,

u kojem bi razmišljali šta da drže odvojeno,

their marriage might have been more connected and more together.

brak bi im možda bio povezaniji.

Too often in marriage, we make sacrifices,

Veoma često u braku pravimo žrtve

and we demand them,

i iste tražimo

without reckoning their cost.

bez razmišljanja o njihovim posledicama.

But there is wisdom in looking at the price tags

Ali mudrost leži u posmatranju cena

attached to our marital decisions

koje su nakačene na naše bračne odluke,

in just the way that divorce law teaches us to do.

a upravo to nas uči zakon razvoda.

What I want

Ono što ja želim

is for people to think about their marital bargains

je da ljudi razmisle o svojim bračnim pogodbama

through the lens of divorce.

sa stanovišta razvoda.

And to ask,

I da pitam:

"How is marriage a sacrifice,

"Kako je brak žrtva,

but an exchange of sacrifice?

ali razmena žrtve?

How do we think about our exchange?"

Kako mi razmišljamo o našoj razmeni?"

Second:

Drugo:

"How do we think about childcare

"Na koji način razmišljamo o brizi o deci

and deal with the fact

i nosimo se sa činjenicom

that there is no such thing as free childcare?"

da besplatna briga o deci ne postoji?"

"How do we deal with the fact

"Kako se nosimo sa činjenicom

that some things can be separate and some things can be together,

da neke stvari mogu biti odvojene, a neke stvari mogu biti zajedno,

and if we don't think about it,

i ako ne razmišljamo o tome,

then it will all be part of the joint enterprise."

onda će to sve postati zajedničko?"

So basically,

Zapravo,

what I want to leave you with is that in marriage or divorce,

želim da upamtite da u braku ili razvodu,

people should think about the way

trebalo bi da razmišljate

that "till death do us part" marriage

da je brak "dok nas smrt ne rastavi"

is forever.

zauvek.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)