How understanding divorce can help your marriage | Jeannie Suk Gersen

翻译人员: Jiasi Hao 校对人员: Wanting Zhong

"Till death do us part."

“直到死亡将我们分开。”

When we get married, we make vows.

当我们结婚时，会对彼此许下誓言。

To love, to honor,

去爱，以之为荣，

to forsake all others.

不对他人产生感情。

Or as a friend of mine put it,

或者像我一个朋友所说：

"Not to leave dirty socks all over the house."

“不要把脏袜子满屋子乱丢。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

We may fall short of some of our promises

有些时候，

我们可能无法信守自己的某些诺言，

some of the time,

但有一句话应该被当作真理恪守， 也就是演讲开始的那句：

but one that will always hold true is that first one:

"Till death do us part."

“直到死亡将我们分开。”

Because spouses are bound together by their decisions,

因为伴侣们始终 被彼此的决定所牵绊，

in marriage and in divorce.

不论是结婚，还是离婚。

So, a mentor of mine once told me,

我的一位导师曾告诉我：

"You should always marry your second husband first."

“你总是应当先和 第二任丈夫结婚。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

What did that mean?

这是什么意思？

It didn't mean that Mr. Right is somehow waiting behind door number two.

这并不说你的真命天子 总会在第二次出现。

It meant that if you want to understand

这句话的意思是：

如果你想要了解 如何能经营好一段婚姻，

what makes a marriage work,

you should think about how a marriage ends.

就应该思考 一段婚姻是如何结束的。

Divorce makes extremely explicit

离婚非常明确地说明了

婚姻的潜规则。

what the tacit rules of marriage are.

And everyone should understand those rules,

每个人都应该理解那些规则，

because doing so can help us build better marriages from the beginning.

因为这样做能让我们从一开始 就建立更好的婚姻基础。

I know, it doesn't sound very romantic,

我知道这听起来不太浪漫，

but sometimes the things we do out of love

但有时候我们出于爱意所做的事情

can be the very things that make it hard for that love to last.

可能会成为让这段爱 难以持续下去的原因。

I am a family-law professor.

我是一名家庭法教授，

I have taught students,

我教过学生，

I've been an attorney,

也当过律师。

I'm a mediator

我是一名调解员，

我也经历过离婚。

and I've also been divorced.

And I'm now happily married to my actual second husband.

现在我和第二任丈夫 有着很幸福的婚姻。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

The reason that I think this is so important

我认为这件事之所以重要，

is that I think everyone should be having some of these very painful conversations

是因为每个人都应该进行 离婚夫妇所经历的

that divorced people experience.

那些非常令人痛苦的对话。

These are painful conversations about what we contributed,

这些痛苦的对话 是关于我们贡献了什么，

我们亏欠了彼此什么，

what we owe,

what we are willing to give

我们愿意给予什么，

我们放弃了什么，

and what we give up.

And also, what's important to us.

以及我们看重的是什么。

Those conversations should be happening in a good marriage,

这些对话应该出现在 一段良好的婚姻关系中，

而非在一段婚姻破碎之后。

not after it is broken.

Because when you wait until it's broken,

因为当你等到婚姻破碎时，

已经为时晚矣。

it's too late.

But if you have them early on,

但如果你提早就进行了这样的沟通，

they can actually help build a better marriage.

它们其实可以帮助你 建立一段更好的婚姻关系。

Three ideas that I want to put on the table

在这里，我想要分享三个观点，

for you to consider.

供各位参考。

One, sacrifice should be thought of as a fair exchange.

第一， 应将牺牲看作是一种公平交换。

第二， 没有免费育儿这回事。

Two, there's no such thing as free childcare.

第三， “你”的东西可能会变成“我们”的东西。

And three, what's yours probably becomes ours.

So let me talk about each of these ideas.

下面，让我逐一进行解释。

The first one,

第一条，

sacrifice should be a fair exchange.

应将牺牲看作是一种公平交换。

Take the example of Lisa and Andy.

拿丽莎和安迪的关系举例。

Lisa decides to go to medical school early in the marriage,

丽莎决定在婚后不久 就去医学院读书，

and Andy works to support them.

而安迪则上班来维持家用。

And Andy works night shifts in order to do that,

安迪还需要上晚班， 才能挣到足够的钱，

and he also gives up a great job in another city.

他也因此不得不放弃了 在另一座城市一个绝佳的工作机会。

He does this out of love.

他愿意这么做是出于对妻子的爱。

But of course, he also understands

但当然，他也明白，

丽莎的学历从长远来看 会让他们彼此受益。

that Lisa's degree will benefit them both in the end.

But after a few years, Andy becomes neglected and resentful.

但几年后， 安迪感到备受忽视，心怀不满。

之后他开始酗酒。

And he starts drinking heavily.

And Lisa looks at her life and she looks at Andy and she thinks,

丽莎回顾了她的生活， 又看了看安迪，她想：

"This is not the bargain I wanted to make."

“这不是我原本想要的生活。”

A couple of years go by,

几年后，

丽莎从医学院毕业，

she graduates from medical school,

同时提出了离婚申请。

and she files for a divorce.

So in my perfect world,

在我的完美世界里，

some kind of marriage mediator would have been able to talk to them

一些婚姻调解员 本能够在丽莎去读医之前

就和他们进行一场谈话。

before Lisa went to medical school.

那时候，调解员可能会问，

And at that point, that mediator might have asked,

"How exactly does fair exchange work?

“在你们的这个决定中， 公平交换体现在哪里？

What does it look like in your marriage?

它在你们的婚姻中看起来如何？

What are you willing to give and what are you willing to owe?"

你们愿意付出什么， 又愿意亏欠什么？”

So in a divorce,

在这场离婚中，

Lisa now probably is going to owe Andy financial support for years.

丽莎可能要欠安迪 多年的经济支持。

And Andy ...

而对于安迪，

no amount of financial support is going to make him feel compensated

不论多少经济上的帮助， 都无法补偿

for what he gave up,

他为丽莎放弃的事业，

and the lost traction in his career.

以及他失去的职业生涯推动力。

If the two of them had thought about their split early on,

如果他们两个人之前 就考虑过可能会分开，

what might have gone differently?

事情可能会发生怎样的改变？

Well, it's possible that Lisa would have decided

丽莎或许会决定

that she would take loans or work a part-time job

申请贷款，或者做临时工

in order to support her own tuition

来支付自己的学费，

so that Andy wouldn't have had to bear the entire burden for that.

这样安迪就不用负担 学费的所有压力。

And Andy might have decided to take that job in that other city

而安迪可能会决定 接受另一座城市的工作机会，

and maybe the two of them would have commuted for a couple of years

或许在丽莎拿到学位之前

while Lisa finished her degree.

他俩要异地几年。

我们再看一下另一对伴侣， 艾米莉和黛布的例子。

So let's take another couple, Emily and Deb.

They live in a big city,

她们住在一个大城市，

有两个孩子， 两个人都在工作。

they have two children, they both work.

Emily gets a job in a small town,

艾米莉获得了在某个小镇的工作机会，

and they decide to move there together.

于是她们决定一起搬到那里。

And Deb quits her job to look after the children full-time.

黛布辞了职，全职照看小孩。

Deb leaves behind an extended family,

她离开了她的大家庭，

her friends

她的朋友，

and a job that she really liked.

以及一份喜欢的工作。

And in that small town, Deb starts to feel isolated and lonely.

在那个小城镇里， 黛布开始感到孤独与寂寞。

And 10 years later, Deb has an affair,

10 年后， 黛布有了婚外情，

and things fall apart.

然后她们的婚姻破裂了。

Now, the marriage mediator who would have come in

假设婚姻调解员

before they moved and before Deb quit her job

在她们搬家以及黛布辞职前 同样介入，

might have asked them,

调解员可能会问她们：

"What do your choices about childcare

“你们对育儿方式的选择

do to the obligations you have to each other?

会怎样影响到你们之间的义务权衡？

How do they affect your relationship?

会如何影响到你们的关系？

Because you have to remember

因为你们得记住一点，

that there is no such thing as free childcare."

没有免费育儿这种东西。”

If the two of them had thought about their split beforehand,

如果她们两个人先前 考虑过可能会分手，

what would have gone differently?

事情可能会发生怎样的改变？

Well, maybe Deb would have realized a little better

黛布可能会更清楚地意识到

how much her family and her friends were important to her

她的家人和朋友对她来讲 是如此重要，

precisely in what she was taking on,

尤其是在她选择成为全职家长

which is full-time parenthood.

的这种情况下。

Perhaps Emily,

或许艾米莉，

in weighing the excitement of the new job offer

沉浸在获得新工作的兴奋之余，

might have also thought about what that would mean for the cost to Deb

可能也会考虑到她的决定 对黛布来说意味着多大的牺牲，

and what would be owed to Deb

而且由于黛布成为全职家长，

as a result of her taking on full-time parenthood.

艾米莉会亏欠黛布多少。

So, let's go back to Lisa and Andy.

让我们再回到丽莎和安迪的例子。

Lisa had an inheritance from her grandmother

丽莎在婚前从她祖母那里

before the marriage.

获得了一笔遗产。

And when they got married, they bought a home,

当他们结婚买房子的时候，

丽莎用那笔遗产付了首付。

and Lisa put that inheritance toward a down payment on that home.

And then Andy of course worked to make the mortgage payments.

之后自然就由安迪工作 来付后面的房贷。

And all of their premarital and marital property

他们所有的婚前与婚后财产

became joined.

都合并了。

That inheritance is now marital property.

那笔遗产现在变成了共同财产。

So, in a split, what's going to happen?

那么如果他们离婚，会发生什么？

They're going to have to sell the house and split the proceeds,

他们将不得不卖了房子， 平分卖房所得，

or one of them can buy the other out.

或者他们其中一人 可以买下整座房子。

So this marriage mediator,

如果在这一切发生之前，

if they had talked to them before all of this happened,

他们和婚姻调解员谈话，

that person would have asked,

调解员会问：

"What do you want to keep separate and what do you want to keep together?

“你想保留什么作为个人财产， 你想保留什么作为夫妻共同财产？

And how does that choice

你们的选择

actually support the security of the marriage?

会如何确保婚姻安全？

Because you have to remember

因为你们得记住，

that what's yours, probably, will become ours,

如今是你的， 可能之后会变成你们的，

unless you actually are mindful and take steps to do otherwise."

除非你真的非常注意， 并采取应对和防范措施。”

So if they had thought about their split,

如果他们考虑过可能会分开，

maybe they would have decided differently,

他们或许会做出不同的决定。

maybe Lisa would have thought,

或许丽莎会想：

"Maybe the inheritance can stay separate,"

“也许这笔遗产可以作为 我的个人所有财产，

and saved for a day when they might actually need it.

先存着，等到以后 可能会用到的那一天。”

And maybe the mortgage that they took on wouldn't have been as onerous,

或许他们不会申请如此繁重的房贷，

and maybe Andy wouldn't have had to work so hard to make those payments.

这样安迪就不用 如此辛苦地工作来还房贷，

And maybe he would have become less resentful.

或许他就不会变得那么愤懑。

Maybe they would have lived in a smaller house

他们可能会住在小一点的房子里，

and been content to do that.

并为此感到快乐满足。

重点是，

The point is,

if they had had a divorce-conscious discussion

如果他们曾进行过 带有离婚意识的讨论——

about what to keep separate,

关于什么作为个人私有——

their marriage might have been more connected and more together.

他们婚姻的联系会变得更紧密， 归属感会变得更强烈。

Too often in marriage, we make sacrifices,

我们在婚姻中总是牺牲自我，

and we demand them,

我们也要求伴侣做出牺牲，

without reckoning their cost.

却未曾思考各自所付出的代价。

But there is wisdom in looking at the price tags

但以离婚法教导我们的方式

attached to our marital decisions

来看待我们的婚姻决定 所附带的代价，

in just the way that divorce law teaches us to do.

是很明智的。

What I want

我希望

人们能够通过离婚的角度

is for people to think about their marital bargains

through the lens of divorce.

来思考婚姻的得失，

并且自问：

And to ask,

"How is marriage a sacrifice,

“如何将婚姻的牺牲

变为一种相互牺牲的交换？

but an exchange of sacrifice?

How do we think about our exchange?"

我们该如何思考彼此的交换？”

Second:

第二：

"How do we think about childcare

“我们该如何思考育儿，

and deal with the fact

并且面对没有免费育儿

that there is no such thing as free childcare?"

的这个事实？”

"How do we deal with the fact

“我们该如何处理以下的事实——

that some things can be separate and some things can be together,

有些东西能分开， 而有些东西能合并到一起，

倘若我们不思考这件事，

and if we don't think about it,

then it will all be part of the joint enterprise."

那么以后所有的东西都将共有。”

So basically,

所以总的来说，

what I want to leave you with is that in marriage or divorce,

我想要传达给各位的是，

不论在一段婚姻还是一场离婚中， 人们都应该谨记，

people should think about the way

“直到死亡将我们分开”的婚姻方式

that "till death do us part" marriage

is forever.

代表着永恒。

谢谢。

Thank you.

(Applause)

（掌声）