How understanding divorce can help your marriage | Jeannie Suk Gersen

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 潘 可儿

"Till death do us part."

「直到死亡將我們分開」。

When we get married, we make vows.

我們結婚時，會立下誓言。

To love, to honor,

要愛對方、尊重對方、

to forsake all others.

堅貞不渝。

Or as a friend of mine put it,

或者，如我一位朋友所說：

"Not to leave dirty socks all over the house."

「不把髒襪子到處亂丟。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We may fall short of some of our promises

有些時候，我們並不能 兌現某些承諾，

some of the time,

but one that will always hold true is that first one:

但有一項承諾永遠都不會被打破，

就是第一項：

"Till death do us part."

「直到死亡將我們分開。」

Because spouses are bound together by their decisions,

因為夫妻會被 他們的決定束縛在一起，

in marriage and in divorce.

結婚也是，離婚也是。

So, a mentor of mine once told me,

我的一位導師曾經告訴我：

"You should always marry your second husband first."

「你一定要先嫁給你的第二任丈夫。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

What did that mean?

那是什麼意思呢？

It didn't mean that Mr. Right is somehow waiting behind door number two.

並不是說真命天子 正在二號門後等待。

It meant that if you want to understand

而是說，如果你想要知道

what makes a marriage work,

婚姻怎樣才能走下去，

you should think about how a marriage ends.

你就應該要想想婚姻是如何結束的。

Divorce makes extremely explicit

離婚讓婚姻的潛規則變得非常明確。

what the tacit rules of marriage are.

And everyone should understand those rules,

大家都應該了解這些規則，

because doing so can help us build better marriages from the beginning.

因為這麼做，

能協助我們從一開始 就建立更美好的婚姻。

I know, it doesn't sound very romantic,

我知道，這聽起來不怎麼浪漫，

but sometimes the things we do out of love

但有時，我們某些出於愛的行動，

can be the very things that make it hard for that love to last.

恰恰會讓那份愛難以持續。

I am a family-law professor.

我是家庭法教授。

I have taught students,

我教過學生，

I've been an attorney,

我當過律師，

I'm a mediator

我當過調解人，

and I've also been divorced.

我也離過婚。

And I'm now happily married to my actual second husband.

現在，我確實和我的 第二任丈夫幸福地生活。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

The reason that I think this is so important

我認為這點很重要，是因為，

is that I think everyone should be having some of these very painful conversations

我認為，大家都應該要去進行

這些離婚者所經歷的痛苦對談。

that divorced people experience.

These are painful conversations about what we contributed,

這些痛苦的對談， 談的是我們付出了什麼、

what we owe,

我們虧欠了什麼、

what we are willing to give

我們願意給予什麼，

and what we give up.

以及我們放棄了什麼。

And also, what's important to us.

還有，什麼對我們是重要的。

Those conversations should be happening in a good marriage,

在美好的婚姻中 也應該要進行這些對談，

not after it is broken.

不要等到婚姻破裂之後。

Because when you wait until it's broken,

因為，如果等到破裂之後，

it's too late.

就太遲了。

But if you have them early on,

但如果你能早點進行，

they can actually help build a better marriage.

這些對談可以協助 打造更美好的婚姻。

Three ideas that I want to put on the table

我想要提出三個想法給大家參考。

for you to consider.

One, sacrifice should be thought of as a fair exchange.

第一，犧牲應被視為 一種公平的交換。

Two, there's no such thing as free childcare.

第二，世界上沒有免費的兒童照管。

And three, what's yours probably becomes ours.

第三，「你的」可能 會變成「我們的」。

So let me talk about each of these ideas.

讓我一項一項來談。

The first one,

第一，

sacrifice should be a fair exchange.

犧牲應該是種公平的交換。

Take the example of Lisa and Andy.

以麗莎和安迪為例。

Lisa decides to go to medical school early in the marriage,

在婚姻初期，麗莎 決定要去讀醫學院，

and Andy works to support them.

安迪工作來養家。

And Andy works night shifts in order to do that,

安迪還要執晚班才能養家，

and he also gives up a great job in another city.

他也放棄了在另一個 城市的好工作。

He does this out of love.

他這麼做是出於愛。

But of course, he also understands

但當然，他也了解，

that Lisa's degree will benefit them both in the end.

最終，麗莎的學位 對他們兩人都會有幫助。

But after a few years, Andy becomes neglected and resentful.

但幾年後，安迪被忽視，

變得憤憤不平。

And he starts drinking heavily.

他開始大量飲酒。

And Lisa looks at her life and she looks at Andy and she thinks,

麗莎看看她自己的人生， 再看看安迪，心想：

"This is not the bargain I wanted to make."

「這並不是我想要的结果。」

A couple of years go by,

幾年過去了，

she graduates from medical school,

她從醫學院畢業，

and she files for a divorce.

她提出了離婚。

So in my perfect world,

在我心目中的完美世界裡，

some kind of marriage mediator would have been able to talk to them

會有某種婚姻調解人 在麗莎進入醫學院之前

before Lisa went to medical school.

就和他們兩人談談。

And at that point, that mediator might have asked,

在那時，調解人會問：

"How exactly does fair exchange work?

「公平的交易怎麼進行？

What does it look like in your marriage?

在你們的婚姻中，它是什麼樣子的？

What are you willing to give and what are you willing to owe?"

你願意給予什麼、 你願意虧欠什麼？」

So in a divorce,

若要離婚，

Lisa now probably is going to owe Andy financial support for years.

麗莎可能會欠安迪數年的財務支持。

And Andy ...

而安迪……

no amount of financial support is going to make him feel compensated

不論得到多少金額的財務支持，

他都不會讓覺得能夠 彌補他所放棄的一切，

for what he gave up,

and the lost traction in his career.

以及他在職涯中失去的牽引力。

If the two of them had thought about their split early on,

如果他們兩人早先 就料到他們會分開，

what might have gone differently?

事情會有什麼不同？

Well, it's possible that Lisa would have decided

有可能，麗莎會決定

that she would take loans or work a part-time job

通過貸款或是打工，

in order to support her own tuition

來支付她自己的學費，

so that Andy wouldn't have had to bear the entire burden for that.

這樣安迪就不用一肩扛起所有重擔。

And Andy might have decided to take that job in that other city

而安迪可能會決定接下 在另一個城市的工作，

and maybe the two of them would have commuted for a couple of years

也許有好幾年的時間 他們兩人都得要通勤，

while Lisa finished her degree.

讓麗莎完成她的學位。

So let's take another couple, Emily and Deb.

我們再看看另一個例子， 艾蜜莉和黛比。

They live in a big city,

她們住在大城市，有兩個孩子， 兩人都有在工作。

they have two children, they both work.

Emily gets a job in a small town,

艾蜜莉應徵到了 一份在小鎮上的工作，

and they decide to move there together.

她們決定要一起搬到那裡去。

And Deb quits her job to look after the children full-time.

黛比辭掉了她的工作， 全職照顧孩子。

Deb leaves behind an extended family,

黛比離開了她的大家庭和朋友，

her friends

and a job that she really liked.

還放棄了她真心喜歡的工作。

And in that small town, Deb starts to feel isolated and lonely.

在小鎮上，黛比開始感到孤單。

And 10 years later, Deb has an affair,

十年後，黛比出軌了，

and things fall apart.

一切開始崩壞。

Now, the marriage mediator who would have come in

婚姻調解人應該要在她們搬家、

before they moved and before Deb quit her job

黛比辭職之前就介入，

might have asked them,

可能會問她們：

"What do your choices about childcare

「你們對於兒童管照的選擇

do to the obligations you have to each other?

會對你們對彼此的義務有什麼影響？

How do they affect your relationship?

這些選擇會如何影響你們的關係？

Because you have to remember

因為，你們要記住，

that there is no such thing as free childcare."

世界上沒有免費的兒童照管。」

If the two of them had thought about their split beforehand,

如果她們兩人事前 就想過終究會分開，

what would have gone differently?

會造成什麼不同？

Well, maybe Deb would have realized a little better

也許黛比會更清楚，

how much her family and her friends were important to her

她有多需要她的家人和朋友，

precisely in what she was taking on,

陪她面對新的人生挑戰，

which is full-time parenthood.

也就是全職家長。

Perhaps Emily,

也許艾蜜莉，

in weighing the excitement of the new job offer

在權衡新工作帶來的興奮感時，

might have also thought about what that would mean for the cost to Deb

也應想到接下這個工作 要求黛比付出什麼代價，

and what would be owed to Deb

以及黛比當全職家長後，

as a result of her taking on full-time parenthood.

自己會虧欠她什麼，

So, let's go back to Lisa and Andy.

我們回到麗莎和安迪。

Lisa had an inheritance from her grandmother

在結婚之前，麗莎 繼承了她祖母的遺產。

before the marriage.

And when they got married, they bought a home,

他們結婚時，買了一間房子，

and Lisa put that inheritance toward a down payment on that home.

麗莎把那遺產拿來支付 房子的頭期款。

And then Andy of course worked to make the mortgage payments.

接著，當然，安迪努力 工作來償付抵押貸款。

And all of their premarital and marital property

所有他們婚前、婚後的財產

became joined.

都變成了共有的。

That inheritance is now marital property.

那筆遺產現在成了婚姻財產。

So, in a split, what's going to happen?

所以，當兩人分開時， 會是怎樣的狀況？

They're going to have to sell the house and split the proceeds,

他們必須要把房子賣掉， 再來分配收益，

or one of them can buy the other out.

或者其中一人買下對方的份。

So this marriage mediator,

所以，如果婚姻調解者

if they had talked to them before all of this happened,

在他們離婚發生之前介入，

that person would have asked,

就會問：

"What do you want to keep separate and what do you want to keep together?

「哪些東西是你們想私有的、 而哪些是你們想共享的？

And how does that choice

這一抉擇真的有助於穩固婚姻嗎？

actually support the security of the marriage?

Because you have to remember

因為，不要忘了，

that what's yours, probably, will become ours,

「你的」很有可能會變成「我們的」，

unless you actually are mindful and take steps to do otherwise."

除非你很謹慎，

按步就班避免這個情況發生。」

So if they had thought about their split,

如果他們想過他們可能會分開，

maybe they would have decided differently,

也許會做出不同的決策，

maybe Lisa would have thought,

也許麗莎會想：

"Maybe the inheritance can stay separate,"

「也許這筆遺產不應該拿來共用。」

and saved for a day when they might actually need it.

存下來，以備不時之需。

And maybe the mortgage that they took on wouldn't have been as onerous,

也許他們抵押貸款的負擔 就不會這麼重，

and maybe Andy wouldn't have had to work so hard to make those payments.

也許安迪就不需要這麼拼命來償付。

And maybe he would have become less resentful.

也許他就不會有那麼多不滿。

Maybe they would have lived in a smaller house

也許他們會住在比較小的房子裡，

and been content to do that.

且感到滿足。

The point is,

重點是，

if they had had a divorce-conscious discussion

如果他們把離婚納入考量，

about what to keep separate,

討論過哪些東西該分開，

their marriage might have been more connected and more together.

他們的婚姻可能會更緊密、穩固。

Too often in marriage, we make sacrifices,

在婚姻中，我們太常做出犧牲，

and we demand them,

且我們會要求對方犧牲，

without reckoning their cost.

卻不知道代價為何。

But there is wisdom in looking at the price tags

但聰明的做法是要看看

我們的婚姻決策所附帶的價格標籤，

attached to our marital decisions

in just the way that divorce law teaches us to do.

用離婚法教導 我們的方式去看待它們。

What I want

我希望，

is for people to think about their marital bargains

大家能通過離婚的透鏡，

去看清他們的婚姻協議。

through the lens of divorce.

And to ask,

並問：

"How is marriage a sacrifice,

如果婚姻只是犧牲的交易，

but an exchange of sacrifice?

它又怎能算是一種犧牲？

How do we think about our exchange?"

我們怎麼看待我們的交易？」

Second:

第二：

"How do we think about childcare

「我們怎麼看待兒童管照

and deal with the fact

及如何看待世界上沒有免費的 兒童照管這個事實？」

that there is no such thing as free childcare?"

"How do we deal with the fact

「我們如何看待

that some things can be separate and some things can be together,

有些東西可以分開， 而有些則可以共有，

and if we don't think about it,

而如果我們不去考慮，

then it will all be part of the joint enterprise."

這些全都會變成是 共有財產的一部分。」

So basically,

所以，基本上，

what I want to leave you with is that in marriage or divorce,

我想留給各位的訊息是，

不論結婚或離婚，

people should think about the way

大家都應該想想，

that "till death do us part" marriage

「直到死亡將我們分開」的婚姻

is forever.

會怎樣一直影響我們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）