Nina Jablonski breaks the illusion of skin color

322,882 views ・ 2009-08-07

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Prevoditelj: Ivona Papa Recezent: Tilen Pigac - EFZG
Zanimljivo, Charles Darwin
00:19
Interestingly, Charles Darwin
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00:22
was born a very lightly pigmented man,
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se rodio kao čovjek jako svijetlog pigmenta,
00:26
in a moderately-to-darkly pigmented world.
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u umjereno do tamno pigmentiranom svijetu.
00:30
Over the course of his life,
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Tijekom svog života,
00:33
Darwin had great privilege.
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Darwin je imao velike privilegije.
00:35
He lived in a fairly wealthy home.
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Živio je u dosta bogatom domu.
00:38
He was raised by very supportive and interested parents.
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Odgojili su ga roditelji puni potpore i brige.
00:42
And when he was in his 20s
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I kad je bio u svojim 20-ima
00:44
he embarked upon a remarkable voyage on the ship the Beagle.
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odvažio se na značajno putovanje brodom Beagle.
00:48
And during the course of that voyage,
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I tijekom tog putovanja,
00:51
he saw remarkable things:
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vidio je znamenite stvari:
00:53
tremendous diversity of plants and animals, and humans.
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golemu raznolikost biljki i životinja, i ljudi.
00:57
And the observations that he made
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I primjedbe koje je stekao
00:59
on that epic journey
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na tom epskom putovanju
01:01
were to be eventually distilled
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su se s vremenom razvile
01:03
into his wonderful book, "On the Origin of Species,"
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u njegovu divnu knjigu, "O porijeklu vrsta",
01:05
published 150 years ago.
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objavljenu prije 150 godina.
01:09
Now what is so interesting
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Sad, ono što je tako zanimljivo
01:11
and to some, the extent, what's a bit infamous
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i što je, u neku ruku, pomalo ozloglašeno
01:15
about "The Origin of Species,"
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o "Porijeklu vrsta",
01:17
is that there is only one line in it
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je da je tamo samo jedan redak
01:19
about human evolution.
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o ljudskoj evoluciji.
01:22
"Light will be thrown on the origin of man
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"Svjetlo će biti bačeno na porijeklo čovjeka
01:25
and his history."
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i njegovu povijest."
01:27
It wasn't until much longer,
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Tek puno kasnije,
01:29
much later,
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puno kasnije
01:31
that Darwin actually spoke
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je Darwin zapravo progovorio
01:33
and wrote about humans.
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i pisao o ljudima.
01:36
Now in his years of
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Za vrijeme
01:38
traveling on the Beagle,
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putovanja na Beagleu,
01:40
and from listening to the accounts
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i slušajući izvještaje
01:42
or explorers and naturalists,
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istraživača i prirodoslovaca,
01:44
he knew that skin color
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znao je da je boja kože
01:48
was one of the most important ways
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jedan od najvažnijih načina
01:50
in which people varied.
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u kojima se ljudi razlikuju.
01:52
And he was somewhat interested in the pattern of skin color.
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I bio je donekle zainteresiran za obrazac boje kože.
01:56
He knew that darkly pigmented peoples
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Znao je da se tamno pigmentirani ljudi
01:58
were found close to the equator;
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nalaze blizu ekvatora,
02:01
lightly pigmented peoples, like himself,
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svijetlo pigmentirani ljudi, poput njega samoga,
02:03
were found closer to the poles.
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su bili bliže polovima.
02:06
So what did he make of all this?
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I što je zaključio iz svega ovoga?
02:08
Well he didn't write anything about it in The Origin of Species.
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Pa, nije ništa o tome napisao u Porijeklu vrsta.
02:11
But much later, in 1871,
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Ali mnogo kasnije, 1871.,
02:14
he did have something to say about it.
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imao je nešto za reći o tome.
02:16
And it was quite curious. He said,
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I to je bilo poprilično zanimljivo. Rekao je,
02:18
"Of all the differences between the races of men,
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"Od svih razlika između rasa čovjeka,
02:21
the color of the skin is the most conspicuous
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boja kože je najizraženija
02:23
and one of the best marked."
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i jedna od najbolje označenih."
02:25
And he went on to say,
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I nastavio je,
02:27
"These differences do not coincide
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"Ove razlike se ne događaju
02:30
with corresponding differences in climate."
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u skladu s odgovarajućim razlikama u klimi."
02:33
So he had traveled all around.
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Dakle, putovao je svugdje okolo.
02:35
He had seen people of different colors
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Vidio je ljude različitih boja
02:38
living in different places.
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koji žive u različitim mjestima.
02:40
And yet he rejected the idea
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Pa ipak je odbacio ideju
02:42
that human skin pigmentation
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da je pigmentacija ljudske kože
02:45
was related to the climate.
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povezana s klimom.
02:48
If only Darwin lived today.
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Da je Darwin barem živio danas.
02:51
If only Darwin had NASA.
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Da je Darwin barem imao NASA-u.
02:54
Now, one of the wonderful things that NASA does
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Sad, jedna od divnih stvari koje NASA čini
02:58
is it puts up a variety of satellites
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je da postavlja razne satelite
03:00
that detect all sort of interesting things about our environment.
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koji otkrivaju svakakve zanimljive stvari o našem okolišu.
03:03
And for many decades now
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I sad već mnogo desetljeća
03:06
there have been a series of TOMS satellites
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postoji serija satelita TOMS
03:09
that have collected data about the radiation of the Earth's surface.
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koji su skupljali podatke o radijaciji na površini Zemlje.
03:12
The TOMS 7 satellite data, shown here,
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Podaci satelita TOMS 7, pokazani ovdje,
03:16
show the annual average
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pokazuju godišnji prosjek
03:18
ultraviolet radiation at the Earth's surface.
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ultraljubičastog zračenja na površini Zemlje.
03:21
Now the really hot pink and red areas
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Sad, stvarno vruće ružičasta i crvena područja
03:24
are those parts of the world that receive the highest amounts
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su oni dijelovi svijeta koji dobivaju najveći dio
03:27
of UV during the year.
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UV zračenja tijekom godine.
03:30
The incrementally cooler colors --
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Dodavanjem hladnijih boja --
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blues, greens, yellows, and finally grays --
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plave, zelene, žute, i konačno sive --
03:36
indicate areas of much lower ultraviolet radiation.
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pokazuju se područja mnogo nižeg ultraljubičastog zračenja.
03:39
What's significant to the story of human skin pigmentation
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Ono što je značajno za priču o pigmentaciji ljudske kože
03:43
is just how much of the Northern Hemisphere
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je to koliko se zapravo sjeverne polutke
03:47
is in these cool gray zones.
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nalazi u ovim sivim zonama.
03:50
This has tremendous implications for our understanding
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Ovo ima ogroman utjecaj na naše razumijevanje
03:53
of the evolution of human skin pigmentation.
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evolucije pigmentacije ljudske kože.
03:56
And what Darwin could not appreciate,
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I ono što Darwin nije mogao cijeniti,
03:59
or didn't perhaps want to appreciate at the time,
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ili možda želio cijeniti u to vrijeme,
04:02
is that there was a fundamental relationship
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je da postoji fundamentalna veza
04:05
between the intensity of ultraviolet radiation
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između intenziteta UV zračenja
04:08
and skin pigmentation.
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i pigmentacije kože.
04:10
And that skin pigmentation itself
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I da je sama pigmentacija kože
04:13
was a product of evolution.
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rezultat evolucije.
04:16
And so when we look at a map of skin color,
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I tako kad pogledamo kartu boje kože,
04:19
and predicted skin color, as we know it today,
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i predvidimo boju kože, kako je znamo danas,
04:22
what we see is a beautiful gradient
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ono što vidimo je predivna gradacija
04:25
from the darkest skin pigmentations toward the equator,
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od najtamnije pigmentacije prema ekvatoru,
04:28
and the lightest ones toward the poles.
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do najsvjetlije prema polovima.
04:31
What's very, very important here
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Ono što je jako, jako važno u tome
04:35
is that the earliest humans
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je da su najraniji ljudi
04:37
evolved in high-UV environments,
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evoluirali u okolišu visokog UV-a,
04:40
in equatorial Africa.
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u ekvatorijalnoj Africi.
04:42
The earliest members of our lineage,
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Najraniji članovi našeg porijekla,
04:45
the genus Homo, were darkly pigmented.
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rod Homo, su bili tamnog pigmenta.
04:48
And we all share this incredible heritage
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I svi dijelimo ovo nevjerojatno nasljedstvo
04:52
of having originally been
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da smo originalno bili
04:54
darkly pigmented,
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tamnog pigmenta,
04:56
two million to one and half million years ago.
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prije dva milijuna do milijun i pol godina.
04:59
Now what happened in our history?
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Sad, što se dogodilo u našoj povijesti?
05:04
Let's first look at the relationship
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Pogledajmo najprije vezu
05:06
of ultraviolet radiation to the Earth's surface.
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između ultraljubičastog zračenja i površine Zemlje.
05:09
In those early days of our evolution,
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U onim ranim danima evolucije,
05:12
looking at the equator,
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gledajući na ekvator,
05:14
we were bombarded by high levels of ultraviolet radiation.
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bili smo bombardirani visokim razinama UV zračenja.
05:17
The UVC, the most energetic type,
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UVC, najenergičniji tip,
05:20
was occluded by the Earth's atmosphere.
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je odbijala Zemljina atmosfera.
05:23
But UVB and UVA
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Ali UVB i posebno
05:25
especially, came in unimpeded.
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UVA su nesmetano ulazili.
05:27
UVB turns out to be incredibly important.
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Ispostavilo se da je UVB nevjerojatno važan.
05:31
It's very destructive,
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Veoma je destruktivan,
05:33
but it also catalyzes the production of vitamin D in the skin,
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ali također ubrzava proizvodnju vitamina D u koži,
05:37
vitamin D being a molecule that we very much need
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s time da je vitamin D molekula koja je jako potrebna
05:41
for our strong bones, the health of our immune system,
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za naše snažne kosti, zdravlje imunosustava,
05:45
and myriad other important functions in our bodies.
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i mnoštvo drugih važnih funkcija u našim tijelima.
05:48
So, living at the equator, we got
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Tako, živeći na ekvatoru, primili smo
05:50
lots and lots of ultraviolet radiation
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mnogo mnogo ultraljubičastog zračenja
05:53
and the melanin --
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i melanin --
05:56
this wonderful, complex, ancient polymer
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ovaj divan, kompleksan, prastari polimerni
06:00
compound in our skin --
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spoj u našoj koži --
06:02
served as a superb natural sunscreen.
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je služio kao nadmoćna prirodna zaštita od sunca.
06:06
This polymer is amazing
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Ovaj polimer je sjajan
06:08
because it's present in so many different organisms.
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zato što je prisutan u tako mnogo različitih organizama.
06:11
Melanin, in various forms, has probably been on the Earth
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Melanin, u različitim oblicima, je vjerojatno bio na Zemlji
06:13
a billion years,
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milijardu godina,
06:16
and has been recruited over and over again
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i iznova i iznova se koristio
06:18
by evolution, as often happens.
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u evoluciji, kako to često biva.
06:22
Why change it if it works?
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Zašto mijenjati ako radi?
06:24
So melanin was recruited, in our lineage,
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Tako se melanin koristio, u našem porijeklu,
06:28
and specifically in our earliest ancestors
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i posebno kod naših najranijih predaka
06:31
evolving in Africa,
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koji su evoluirali u Africi,
06:33
to be a natural sunscreen.
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kao prirodna zaštita od sunca.
06:35
Where it protected the body
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Tamo gdje je štitio tijelo
06:37
against the degradations of ultraviolet radiation,
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od štete od ultraljubičastog zračenja,
06:40
the destruction, or damage to DNA,
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raspad, ili šteta na DNK,
06:43
and the breakdown of a very important molecule called folate,
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i slom veoma važnih molekula zvanih folat,
06:47
which helps to fuel cell production,
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koja pomaže u pogonu proizvodnje stanica,
06:50
and reproduction in the body.
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i reprodukciji tijela.
06:53
So, it's wonderful. We evolved this very protective,
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Tako, to je divno. Razvili smo ovu jaku zaštitu,
06:56
wonderful covering of melanin.
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predivnu pokrivenost melaninom.
06:59
But then we moved.
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Ali onda smo se preselili.
07:03
And humans dispersed -- not once, but twice.
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I ljudi su se raspršili -- ne jednom, nego dvaput.
07:07
Major moves, outside of our equatorial homeland,
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Velika kretanja, van naše ekvatorijalne domovine,
07:11
from Africa into other parts of the Old World,
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iz Afrike u druge dijelove Starog svijeta,
07:15
and most recently, into the New World.
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i najkasnije, u Novi svijet.
07:17
When humans dispersed into these latitudes,
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Kad su se ljudi raspršili u ove zemljopisne širine,
07:20
what did they face?
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sa čim su se suočili?
07:22
Conditions were significantly colder,
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Uvjeti su bili puno hladniji,
07:25
but they were also less intense
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ali i manje intenzivni
07:27
with respect to the ultraviolet regime.
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po pitanju ultraljubičastog sustava.
07:29
So if we're somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere,
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Pa ako smo bili negdje u sjevernoj polutci,
07:33
look at what's happening to the ultraviolet radiation.
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pogledajte što se događa s ultraljubičastim zračenjem.
07:36
We're still getting a dose of UVA.
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Još dobivamo dozu UVA.
07:39
But all of the UVB,
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Ali sav UVB,
07:41
or nearly all of it,
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ili gotovo sav,
07:43
is dissipated through the thickness of the atmosphere.
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se rasipa kroz gustoću atmosfere.
07:46
In the winter, when you are skiing in the Alps,
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Zimi, kad skijate u Alpama,
07:50
you may experience ultraviolet radiation.
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možda iskusite ultraljubičasto zračenje.
07:53
But it's all UVA,
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Ali to je sve UVA,
07:55
and, significantly, that UVA
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i, značajno, taj UVA
07:57
has no ability to make vitamin D in your skin.
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nema mogućnosti proizvoditi vitamin D u vašoj koži.
08:02
So people inhabiting northern hemispheric environments
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Tako da ljudi koji nastanjivaju područja sjeverne polutke
08:07
were bereft of the potential
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su ostali bez potencijala
08:10
to make vitamin D in their skin for most of the year.
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da proizvode vitamin D u svojoj koži većinu godine.
08:13
This had tremendous consequences
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Ovo je imalo goleme posljedice
08:16
for the evolution of human skin pigmentation.
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za evoluciju pigmentacije ljudske kože.
08:18
Because what happened, in order to ensure health and well-being,
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Zbog tog što se dogodilo, da bi se osigurali zdravlje i dobrobit,
08:23
these lineages of people
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one linije ljudi
08:25
dispersing into the Northern Hemisphere
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koje su se raspršile u sjevernu polutku,
08:29
lost their pigmentation.
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su izgubile pigmentaciju.
08:31
There was natural selection
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Na djelu je bila prirodna selekcija
08:33
for the evolution of lightly pigmented skin.
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za evoluciju svijetlo pigmentirane kože.
08:38
Here we begin to see the evolution
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Ovdje počinjemo vidjeti evoluciju
08:40
of the beautiful sepia rainbow
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predivne duge u sepiji
08:42
that now characterizes all of humanity.
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koja je sad karakteristična za ljudsku vrstu.
08:45
Lightly pigmented skin evolved not just once,
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Svijetlo pigmentirana koža je evoluirala ne samo jednom,
08:49
not just twice, but probably three times.
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ne samo dvaput, već vjerojatno tri puta.
08:52
Not just in modern humans,
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Ne samo kod modernih ljudi,
08:54
but in one of our distant unrelated ancestors,
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nego i u jednog od predaka s kojima nismo u srodstvu,
08:58
the Neanderthals.
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Neandertalaca.
09:00
A remarkable, remarkable testament
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Značajan, značajan prilog
09:02
to the power of evolution.
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moći evolucije.
09:04
Humans have been on the move for a long time.
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Ljudi su bili u pokretu dugo vremena.
09:07
And just in the last 5,000 years,
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I samo u zadnjih 5.000 godina,
09:09
in increasing rates, over increasing distances.
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u povećanoj mjeri, preko sve većih udaljenosti.
09:12
Here are just some of the biggest movements of people,
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Ovdje su samo neki od najvećih seoba ljudi,
09:16
voluntary movements, in the last 5,000 years.
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dobrovoljna preseljenja, u posljednjih 5.000 godina.
09:19
Look at some of the major latitudinal transgressions:
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Pogledajte neke od glavnih transgresija u zemljopisnoj širini:
09:22
people from high UV areas
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ljudi iz područja visokog UV-a
09:24
going to low UV and vice versa.
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idu u područja niskog UV-a i obrnuto.
09:27
And not all these moves were voluntary.
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I nisu sva ova kretanja dobrovoljna.
09:31
Between 1520 and 1867,
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Između 1520. i 1867.,
09:34
12 million, 500 people
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12 milijuna, 500 ljudi
09:38
were moved from high UV
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se preselilo iz visokog UV-a
09:40
to low UV areas
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u područja niskog UV-a
09:42
in the transatlantic slave trade.
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u prekoatlantskoj trgovini robljem.
09:45
Now this had all sorts of invidious social consequences.
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Ovo je pak imalo svakakve zlokobne društvene posljedice.
09:49
But it also had deleterious
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Isto tako je imalo poguban
09:52
health consequences to people.
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utjecaj na zdravlje ljudi.
09:54
So what? We've been on the move.
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Pa što? Selili smo se.
09:57
We're so clever we can overcome all of these
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Bili smo tako pametni i nadišli sve ove
10:00
seeming biological impediments.
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prividne biološke prepreke.
10:03
Well, often we're unaware
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Pa, često nismo svjesni
10:05
of the fact that we're living
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činjenice da živimo
10:07
in environments in which our skin
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u okolišu u kojem je naša koža
10:09
is inherently poorly adapted.
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nasljedno slabo prilagođena.
10:12
Some of us with lightly pigmented skin
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Neki od nas sa svjetlije pigmentiranom kožom
10:14
live in high-UV areas.
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žive u područjima visokog UV-a.
10:16
Some of us with darkly pigmented skin
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Neki od nas s tamnije pigmentiranom kožom
10:18
live in low-UV areas.
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žive u područjima niskog UV-a.
10:21
These have tremendous consequences for our health.
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Ovo ima goleme posljedice na naše zdravlje.
10:25
We have to, if we're lightly pigmented,
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Moramo, ako smo svijetlije pigmentirani,
10:28
be careful about the problems of skin cancer,
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biti oprezni zbog problema s rakom kože,
10:32
and destruction of folate in our bodies,
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i uništavanjem folata u našem tijelu,
10:35
by lots of sun.
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zbog puno sunca.
10:37
Epidemiologists and doctors
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Epidemiolozi i doktori
10:39
have been very good about telling us
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su bili jako dobri i rekli nam
10:41
about protecting our skin.
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da zaštitimo svoju kožu.
10:43
What they haven't been so good about instructing people
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Ali nisu bili tako dobri pri upućivanju ljudi
10:48
is the problem of darkly pigmented people
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u problem s tamno pigmentiranim ljudima
10:51
living in high latitude areas,
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koji žive u područjima visoke zemljopisne širine,
10:54
or working inside all the time.
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koji rade u zatvorenom cijelo vrijeme.
10:56
Because the problem there is just as severe,
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Zato što je tu problem jednako ozbiljan,
10:59
but it is more sinister,
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ali je i zlokobniji,
11:01
because vitamin D deficiency,
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zbog nedostatka vitamina D,
11:03
from a lack of ultraviolet B radiation,
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zbog nedostatka ultraljubičastog B zračenja,
11:07
is a major problem.
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što je glavni problem.
11:09
Vitamin D deficiency creeps up on people,
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Nedostatak vitamina D se prikrada ljudima,
11:11
and causes all sorts of health problems to their bones,
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i uzrokuje razne zdravstvene probleme s kostima,
11:14
to their gradual decay of their immune systems,
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do postupnog raspada imuno sustava,
11:18
or loss of immune function,
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ili gubitka imunološke funkcije,
11:20
and probably some problems
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i vjerojatno nekih problema
11:22
with their mood and health,
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s raspoloženjem i zdravljem,
11:25
their mental health.
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njihovim mentalnim zdravljem.
11:27
So we have, in skin pigmentation,
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Tako imamo, u pigmentaciji kože,
11:30
one of these wonderful products of evolution
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jedan od ovih divnih proizvoda evolucije
11:33
that still has consequences for us today.
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koji i dan danas ima posljedice za nas.
11:35
And the social consequences,
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I društvene posljedice su,
11:37
as we know, are incredibly profound.
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kako znamo, jako duboke.
11:40
We live in a world where we
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Živimo u svijetu gdje
11:42
have lightly and darkly pigmented people
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imamo svijetlo i tamno pigmentirane ljude
11:46
living next to one another,
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koji žive jedni do drugih,
11:48
but often brought into proximity initially
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ali često su dovedeni blizu počevši
11:51
as a result of very invidious social interactions.
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kao rezultat veoma zlokobnih ljudskih interakcija.
11:55
So how can we overcome this?
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Pa kako možemo nadići ovo?
11:58
How can we begin to understand it?
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Kako možemo početi to razumijevati?
12:00
Evolution helps us.
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Evolucija nam pomaže.
12:04
200 years after Darwin's birthday,
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200 godina nakon Darwinova rođendana,
12:08
we have the first moderately pigmented President of the United States.
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imamo prvog umjereno pigmentiranog predsjednika SAD-a.
12:13
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:14
How wonderful is that?
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Zar to nije divno?
12:16
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:18
This man is significant for a whole host of reasons.
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Ovaj čovjek je značajan zbog velikog mnoštva razloga.
12:22
But we need to think about how he compares,
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Ali moramo razmisliti kako on stoji u usporedbi,
12:25
in terms of his pigmentation, to other people on Earth.
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s obzirom na svoju pigmentaciju, s drugim ljudima na Zemlji.
12:27
He, as one of many urban admixed populations,
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On, kao jedan od mnogih urbanih miješanih populacija,
12:31
is very emblematic
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je jako dobar primjer
12:33
of a mixed parentage, of a mixed pigmentation.
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miješanih roditelja, miješane pigmentacije.
12:36
And he resembles, very closely,
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I jako nalikuje, jako blizu,
12:38
people with moderate levels of pigmentation
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ljudima s umjerenom razinom pigmentacije
12:41
who live in southern Africa, or Southeast Asia.
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koji žive u južnoj Africi, ili jugozapadnoj Aziji.
12:45
These people have a tremendous potential
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Ovi ljudi imaju ogroman potencijal
12:47
to tan, to develop more pigment in their skin,
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da potamne, da razviju više pigmenta u svojoj koži,
12:50
as a result of exposure to sun.
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kao rezultat izlaganja suncu.
12:52
They also run the risk of vitamin D deficiency,
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Također su pod rizikom nedostatka vitamina D,
12:56
if they have desk jobs, like that guy.
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ako imaju uredske poslove, kao taj čovjek.
13:00
So lets all wish for his great health,
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Pa poželimo mu svi odlično zdravlje,
13:04
and his awareness of his own skin pigmentation.
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i da bude svjestan svoje pigmentacije kože.
13:09
Now what is wonderful
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Ono što je divno
13:12
about the evolution of human skin pigmentation,
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u evoluciji pigmentacije ljudske kože,
13:16
and the phenomenon of pigmentation,
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i fenomenu pigmentacije,
13:18
is that it is the demonstration,
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je da demonstrira,
13:21
the evidence, of evolution
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da je dokaz evolucije
13:24
by natural selection,
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prirodnim odabirom,
13:26
right on your body.
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upravo na vašem tijelu.
13:30
When people ask you, "What is the evidence for evolution?"
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Kad vas ljudi pitaju: "Koji je dokaz evolucije?"
13:33
You don't have to think about some exotic examples, or fossils.
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Ne morate razmišljati o nekom egzotičnom primjeru, ili fosilima.
13:37
You just have to look at your skin.
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Samo morate pogledati na svoju kožu.
13:40
Darwin, I think, would have appreciated this,
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Darwin bi, mislim, ovo cijenio,
13:44
even though he eschewed the importance
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iako mu je izmakla važnost
13:47
of climate on the evolution of pigmentation during his own life.
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klime na evoluciju pigmentacije tijekom njegova života.
13:51
I think, were he able to look
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Mislim, da je mogao pogledati
13:54
at the evidence we have today, he would understand it.
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na dokaze koje imamo danas, da bi razumio.
13:57
He would appreciate it.
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Cijenio bi to.
13:59
And most of all, he would teach it.
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I najvažnije, poučavao bi to.
14:03
You, you can teach it.
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Vi, vi to možete poučavati.
14:06
You can touch it.
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Možete to dotaknuti.
14:08
You can understand it.
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Možete to razumjeti.
14:10
Take it out of this room.
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Odnesite to iz ove sobe.
14:13
Take your skin color,
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Uzmite svoju boju kože,
14:15
and celebrate it.
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i slavite je.
14:17
Spread the word.
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Raširite vijest.
14:19
You have the evolution
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Imate evoluciju
14:21
of the history of our species,
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povijesti naše vrste,
14:25
part of it, written in your skin.
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dio toga, ispisan na vašoj koži.
14:27
Understand it. Appreciate it. Celebrate it.
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Razumite. Cijenite. Slavite.
14:30
Go out. Isn't it beautiful? Isn't it wonderful?
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Idite van. Zar nije predivno? Zar nije prekrasno?
14:34
You are the products of evolution.
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Vi ste proizvod evolucije.
14:37
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
14:39
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
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