Jonathan Drori: Why we don't understand as much as we think

Prevoditelj: Davorin Jelačić Recezent: Mislav Ante Omazić - EFZG

I'm going to try and explain why it is that perhaps

Pokušat ću objasniti zašto možda

we don't understand as much as we think we do.

ne razumijemo onoliko koliko mislimo da razumijemo.

I'd like to begin with four questions.

Volio bih početi sa četiri pitanja.

This is not some sort of cultural thing for the time of year.

Ovo nije neka kulturološka stvar za najbolje doba u godini.

That's an in-joke, by the way.

Ovo je, usput, interna šala.

But these four questions, actually,

Ali ova četiri pitanja smatraju teškima

are ones that people who even know quite a lot about science find quite hard.

čak i ljudi koji znaju prilično puno o znanosti.

And they're questions that I've asked of science television producers,

To su pitanja koja sam postavio producentima znanstvenih TV emisija,

of audiences of science educators --

publici znanstvenih edukatora --

so that's science teachers -- and also of seven-year-olds,

dakle, nastavnicima znanosti – kao i sedmogodišnjacima,

and I find that the seven-year-olds do marginally better

i otkrio sam da sedmogodišnjaci marginalno bolje odgovaraju

than the other audiences, which is somewhat surprising.

od drugih skupina, što je donekle iznenađujuće.

So the first question, and you might want to write this down,

Prvo je pitanje, i mogli biste si ga zapisati,

either on a bit of paper, physically, or a virtual piece of paper

bilo na list papira, fizički, ili na virtualni list

in your head. And, for viewers at home, you can try this as well.

u vašoj glavi, a za gledatelje kod kuće, pokušajte i vi.

A little seed weighs next to nothing and a tree weighs a lot, right?

Malena sjemenka teži gotovo ništa, a stablo teži mnogo, zar ne?

I think we agree on that. Where does the tree get the stuff that makes up this chair,

Mislim da se slažemo. Odakle drvo dobiva građu koja čini ovu stolicu,

right? Where does all this stuff come from?

dobro? Otkuda dolazi sva ta stvar?

(Knocks)

(Kuca)

And your next question is, can you light a little torch-bulb

A sljedeće pitanje je možete li upaliti malu svjetiljku

with a battery, a bulb and one piece of wire?

pomoću baterije, žaruljice i jednog komada žice?

And would you be able to, kind of, draw a -- you don't have to draw

I biste li mogli nacrtati – ne morate crtati,

the diagram, but would you be able to draw the diagram,

ali da li biste mogli nacrtati dijagram toga

if you had to do it? Or would you just say,

da morate, ili biste samo rekli,

that's actually not possible?

da to nije moguće?

The third question is, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?

Treće pitanje je zašto je ljeti toplije nego zimi?

I think we can probably agree that it is hotter in summer than in winter,

Mislim da se vjerojatno možemo složiti da je ljeti toplije nego zimi,

but why? And finally, would you be able to --

ali zašto? I konačno, da li biste mogli --

and you can sort of scribble it, if you like --

i možete šarati, ako želite --

scribble a plan diagram of the solar system,

skicirati dijagram sunčevog sustava,

showing the shape of the planets' orbits?

prikazujući oblike planetnih orbita?

Would you be able to do that?

Biste li to mogli?

And if you can, just scribble a pattern.

Ako možete, samo skicirajte uzorak.

OK. Now, children get their ideas not from teachers,

OK. Sad, djeca do ideja dolaze – ne od učitelja,

as teachers often think, but actually from common sense,

kako učitelji često misle, već, u stvari, zdravim razumom,

from experience of the world around them,

iz iskustva svijeta koji ih okružuje,

from all the things that go on between them and their peers,

od svega onoga što se događa između njih i njihovih vršnjaka,

and their carers, and their parents, and all of that. Experience.

i njihovih karijera, i njihovih roditelja, i svega toga, iskustva.

And one of the great experts in this field, of course, was, bless him,

Jedan od velikih stručnjaka na tom području je bio, Bog ga blagoslovio,

Cardinal Wolsey. Be very careful what you get into people's heads

kardinal Wolsey. Budite vrlo pažljivi kad ulazite u ljudske glave

because it's virtually impossible to shift it afterwards, right?

jer je poslije praktički nemoguće to promijeniti, zar ne?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I'm not quite sure how he died, actually.

Nisam sasvim siguran kako je zapravo umro.

Was he beheaded in the end, or hung?

Jesu li mu na kraju odsjekli glavu ili ga objesili?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Now, those questions, which, of course, you've got right,

E, ta pitanja na koja ste, naravno, točno odgovorili,

and you haven't been conferring, and so on.

i niste se dogovarali, i tako dalje,

And I -- you know, normally, I would pick people out and humiliate,

i ja – znate, normalno bih prozvao ljude i ponižavao,

but maybe not in this instance.

ali možda neću ovoga puta.

A little seed weighs a lot and, basically, all this stuff,

Sjemenka je vrlo teška i, u suštini, sva ta građa,

99 percent of this stuff, came out of the air.

99 posto te građe dolazi iz zraka.

Now, I guarantee that about 85 percent of you, or maybe it's fewer at TED,

Sad, garantiram da bi nekih 85% vas, ili bi postotak bio manji na TED-u,

will have said it comes out of the ground. And some people,

reklo da dolazi iz zemlje, a neki,

probably two of you, will come up and argue with me afterwards,

vjerojatno dvoje od vas, prišli bi mi poslije i raspravljali,

and say that actually, it comes out of the ground.

govoreći kako, u stvari, dolazi iz tla.

Now, if that was true, we'd have trucks going round the country,

Kad bi to bilo točno, imali bismo kamione koji voze uokolo,

filling people's gardens in with soil, it'd be a fantastic business.

i ljudima pune bašte zemljom. To bi bio fantastičan posao.

But, actually, we don't do that.

No, zapravo to ne činimo.

The mass of this comes out of the air.

Masa ovoga dolazi iz zraka.

Now, I passed all my biology exams in Britain.

Sad, položio sam sve ispite iz biologije u Britaniji,

I passed them really well, but I still came out of school

položio sam ih zaista dobro, ali sam ipak završio školovanje

thinking that that stuff came out of the ground.

misleći da sve to dolazi iz zemlje.

Second one: can you light a little torch-bulb with a battery bulb and one piece of wire?

Drugo pitanje, možete li upaliti svjetiljku s baterijom, žaruljicom i komadom žice?

Yes, you can, and I'll show you in a second how to do that.

Da, možete, i pokazat ću vam za sekundu kako to napraviti.

Now, I have some rather bad news,

Imam i lošu vijesti,

which is that I had a piece of video that I was about to show you,

koja glasi da sam imao video koji sam vam htio pokazati,

which unfortunately -- the sound doesn't work in this room,

no nažalost – zvuk ne radi u ovoj prostoriji,

so I'm going to describe to you, in true "Monty Python" fashion,

pa ću vam opisati, na pravi montipajtonovski način,

what happens in the video. And in the video, a group of researchers

što se događa u filmu. A u filmu, skupina istraživača

go to MIT on graduation day.

idu u MIT na dan promocije.

We chose MIT because, obviously, that's a very long way away

Odabrali smo MIT jer se, očito, nalazi vrlo daleko

from here, and you wouldn't mind too much,

odavde i neće vam previše smetati,

but it sort of works the same way in Britain

ali nekako slično djeluje i u Britaniji

and in the West Coast of the USA.

i na zapadnoj obali SAD,

And we asked them these questions, and we asked those questions

gdje smo postavili ista pitanja, a pitali smo

of science graduates, and they couldn't answer them.

diplomirane znanstvenike i oni nisu znali odgovoriti.

And so, there's a whole lot of people saying,

I tako, strašno mnogo ljudi govori,

"I'd be very surprised if you told me that this came out of the air.

"Jako bi me iznenadilo da mi kažete da to dolazi iz zraka.

That's very surprising to me." And those are science graduates.

To me jako čudi." A to su oni koji su diplomirali znanost.

And we intercut it with, "We are the premier science university in the world,"

A mi u video ubacimo: "Mi smo najjače znanstveno sveučilište na svijetu"

because of British-like hubris.

zbog arogancije tipične za Britance.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And when we gave graduate engineers that question,

A kad smo dali diplomiranim inženjerima ovo pitanje,

they said it couldn't be done.

rekli su da se to ne može.

And when we gave them a battery, and a piece of wire, and a bulb,

Kad smo im dali bateriju i komad žice i žarulju,

and said, "Can you do it?" They couldn't do it. Right?

i rekli, „Možete li to učiniti?“ nisu mogli. Dobro?

And that's no different from Imperial College in London, by the way,

A to nije ništa drukčije od Imperial Collegea u Londonu, usput,

it's not some sort of anti-American thing going on.

nije to nekakva protuamerička stvar.

As if. Now, the reason this matters is we pay lots and lots of money

Razlog zašto je ovo važno je taj da ako trošimo mnogo novca

for teaching people -- we might as well get it right.

za obrazovanje ljudi, mogli bismo baš i znati odgovore.

And there are also some societal reasons

A postoje i društveni razlozi

why we might want people to understand what it is that's happening

zašto bismo mogli željeti da ljudi razumiju što se događa

in photosynthesis. For example, one half of the carbon equation

u fotosintezi. Na primjer, jedna polovica jednadžbe ugljika

is how much we emit, and the other half of the carbon equation,

se tiče toga koliko ispuštamo, a druga polovica jednadžbe,

as I'm very conscious as a trustee of Kew,

a vrlo sam svjestan toga, kao povjerenik za Kew,

is how much things soak up, and they soak up carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

odnosi se na to koliko puno stvari upijaju, a one upijaju ugljični dioksid iz atmosfere.

That's what plants actually do for a living.

To je ono čime se biljke zapravo bave.

And, for any Finnish people in the audience, this is a Finnish pun:

A za sve Fince u publici, ovo je finska dosjetka,

we are, both literally and metaphorically, skating on thin ice

mi se, doslovno i metaforički, kližemo po tankom ledu

if we don't understand that kind of thing.

ako ne razumijemo ovakve stvari.

Now, here's how you do the battery and the bulb.

Sad, evo kako spojiti bateriju i žarulju.

It's so easy, isn't it? Of course, you all knew that.

Tako je lako, zar ne? Naravno, svi ste to znali.

But if you haven't played with a battery and a bulb,

Ali ako se niste igrali s baterijom i žaruljom,

if you've only seen a circuit diagram,

ako ste samo vidjeli električnu shemu,

you might not be able to do that, and that's one of the problems.

možda to ne biste znali napraviti, a to je jedan od problema.

So, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?

No, zašto je toplije ljeti nego zimi?

We learn, as children, that you get closer to something that's hot,

Učimo, kao djeca, da kad se približite nečemu vrućem,

and it burns you. It's a very powerful bit of learning,

to vas opeče. To je vrlo moćno saznanje,

and it happens pretty early on.

i usvajamo ga vrlo rano.

By extension, we think to ourselves, "Why it's hotter in summer than in winter

Po tome razmišljamo, "Mora da je ljeti toplije nego zimi

must be because we're closer to the Sun."

zato što se nalazimo bliže Suncu."

I promise you that most of you will have got that.

Obećavam vam da bi većina vas to rekla.

Oh, you're all shaking your heads,

O, svi vi tresete glavom,

but only a few of you are shaking your heads very firmly.

ali samo nekolicina trese glavom vrlo odlučno,

Other ones are kind of going like this. All right.

a ostali to čine nekako ovako. Dobro.

It's hotter in summer than in winter because the rays from the Sun

Ljeti je toplije nego zimi zbog toga što se sunčeve zrake

are spread out more, right, because of the tilt of the Earth.

više šire, je li, zbog nagiba Zemlje.

And if you think the tilt is tilting us closer, no, it isn't.

A ako mislite da nas nagib približava Suncu, ne, nije tako.

The Sun is 93 million miles away, and we're tilting like this, right?

Sunce je 149 milijuna kilometara daleko, a mi smo nagnuti ovako, dobro?

It makes no odds. In fact, in the Northern Hemisphere,

Sasvim je jasno, zapravo, da smo na sjevernoj hemisferi

we're further from the Sun in summer,

udaljeniji od Sunca ljeti,

as it happens, but it makes no odds, the difference.

kako ispada, ali razlika nije važna.

OK, now, the scribble of the diagram of the solar system.

OK, a sada, skica dijagrama sunčevog sustava.

If you believe, as most of you probably do,

Ako vjerujete, kao što većina vas vjerojatno vjeruje,

that it's hotter in summer than in winter because we're closer to the Sun,

da je ljeti toplije nego zimi zato što smo bliže Suncu,

you must have drawn an ellipse.

morali ste nacrtati elipsu.

Right? That would explain it, right?

Je li tako? To bi sve objasnilo, je li tako?

Except, in your -- you're nodding -- now, in your ellipse,

Osim što, na vašoj – kimate glavom – na vašoj elipsi,

have you thought, "Well, what happens during the night?"

je li vam palo na pamet pitanje, "No, a što se događa noću?"

Between Australia and here, right, they've got summer

Između Australije i nas ovdje, kod njih je ljeto,

and we've got winter, and what --

a kod nas je zima, i što --

does the Earth kind of rush towards the Sun at night,

juri li Zemlja nekako prema Suncu noću,

and then rush back again? I mean, it's a very strange thing going on,

a zatim juri natrag? Mislim, to bi bilo vrlo čudno

and we hold these two models in our head, of what's right and what isn't right,

i mi u glavi držimo ta dva modela, o tome što je točno i što nije točno,

and we do that, as human beings, in all sorts of fields.

i činimo to, kao ljudi, u najrazličitijim područjima.

So, here's Copernicus' view of what the solar system looked like as a plan.

Ovdje je Kopernikov prikaz izgleda sunčevog sustava u nacrtu,

That's pretty much what you should have on your piece of paper. Right?

i to je više-manje ono što bi trebalo biti na vašem papiru. Je li?

And this is NASA's view. They're stunningly similar.

A ovo je prikaz NASA-e. Oni su zapanjujuće slični.

I hope you notice the coincidence here.

Nadam se da ste ovdje primijetili podudarnost.

What would you do if you knew that people had this misconception,

Što biste da znate da ljudi u glavama drže

right, in their heads, of elliptical orbits

tu pogrešnu predodžbu o eliptičnim orbitama

caused by our experiences as children?

zbog iskustva koje smo imali kao djeca?

What sort of diagram would you show them of the solar system,

Kakav biste im dijagram sunčevog sustava predočili,

to show that it's not really like that?

da pokažete da ne izgleda stvarno tako?

You'd show them something like this, wouldn't you?

Pokazali biste im nešto poput ovoga, zar ne?

It's a plan, looking down from above.

To je nacrt, s pogledom odozgo prema dolje.

But, no, look what I found in the textbooks.

Ali ne, pogledajte što sam našao u udžbenicima,

That's what you show people, right? These are from textbooks,

to je ono što pokazujete ljudima, zar ne? Ovo je iz udžbenika,

from websites, educational websites --

s Internet stranica, obrazovnih web stranica,

and almost anything you pick up is like that.

i skoro sve što pronađete izgleda ovako.

And the reason it's like that is because it's dead boring

A razlog je u tome što je smrtno dosadno

to have a load of concentric circles,

imati niz koncentričnih krugova,

whereas that's much more exciting, to look at something at that angle,

dok je puno uzbudljivije gledati nešto pod kutem,

isn't it? Right? And by doing it at that angle,

zar ne? Dobro? I kako su prikazi pod kutem,

if you've got that misconception in your head, then that

ako imate krivu predodžbu u glavi, tada

two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional thing will be ellipses.

dvodimenzionalni prikaz trodimenzionalne stvari mora biti elipsa.

So you've -- it's crap, isn't it really? As we say.

Pa ste – to je drek, zar nije, kako se već kaže?

So, these mental models -- we look for evidence that reinforces our models.

Kad imamo takve mentalne modele tražimo dokaze koji potvrđuju naše modele.

We do this, of course, with matters of race, and politics, and everything else,

Činimo isto, naravno, i kod rasnih pitanja, politike i svega drugoga,

and we do it in science as well. So we look, just look --

a činimo to i u znanosti. Pa tražimo – tražimo samo --

and scientists do it, constantly -- we look for evidence

i znanstvenici to rade, stalno – tražimo dokaze

that reinforces our models, and some folks are just all too able

koji učvršćuju naše modele, a neki ljudi su odviše sposobni

and willing to provide the evidence that reinforces the models.

i spremni pružiti dokaze koji potvrđuju modele.

So, being I'm in the United States, I'll have a dig at the Europeans.

Budući da sam u Sjedinjenim Državama, rugat ću se Europljanima.

These are examples of what I would say is bad practice in science

Evo primjera onoga što bih nazvao lošom praksom u znanosti,

teaching centers. These pictures are from La Villette in France

u obrazovnim centrima. Ove slike su iz La Villette u Francuskoj,

and the welcome wing of the Science Museum in London.

i iz prijamnog krila znanstvenog muzeja Science Museum u Londonu.

And, if you look at the, kind of the way these things are constructed,

Ako promotrite način na koji su ove stvari poslagane,

there's a lot of mediation by glass, and it's very blue, and kind of professional --

sve je puno staklenih pregrada, sve je plavo i nekako profesionalno,

in that way that, you know, Woody Allen comes up

znate, kao kad Woody Allen izroni

from under the sheets in that scene in "Annie Hall,"

ispod pokrivača u sceni s Annie Hall,

and said, "God, that's so professional." And that you don't --

i kaže: "Bože, to je tako profesionalno" i vi ne možete --

there's no passion in it, and it's not hands on, right,

nema strasti u tome, stvar se nije držala u rukama,

and, you know, pun intended. Whereas good interpretation --

a ova dosjetka je namjerna, znate. S druge strane, dobra interpretacija bi bila,

I'll use an example from nearby -- is San Francisco Exploratorium,

dat ću primjer iz blizine, iz Exploratoriuma u San Franciscu,

where all the things that -- the demonstrations, and so on,

gdje je sve – demonstracije, i tako dalje,

are made out of everyday objects that children can understand,

načinjeno od svakodnevnih predmeta koje djeca mogu razumjeti,

it's very hands-on, and they can engage with, and experiment with.

pristup je praktičan i ona se mogu uključiti i eksperimentirati.

And I know that if the graduates at MIT

I znam: da su diplomcima na MIT-u

and in the Imperial College in London had had the battery and the wire

i u Imperial Collegeu u Londonu bili dani baterija i žica,

and the bit of stuff, and you know, been able to do it,

i još ponešto, da su to bili u prilici uraditi,

they would have learned how it actually works,

naučili bi kako stvari zaista funkcioniraju,

rather than thinking that they follow circuit diagrams and can't do it.

a ne bi mislili da prate električne sheme, a ne mogu to izvesti.

So good interpretation is more about

Kod dobre interpretacije je više riječ

things that are bodged and stuffed and of my world, right?

o nečemu što je pomiješano, nakrcano, iz ovoga svijeta, zar ne?

And things that -- where there isn't an extra barrier

O stvarima – gdje nema dodatne pregrade

of a piece of glass or machined titanium,

komada stakla ili obrađenog titanija,

and it all looks fantastic, OK?

i gdje sve ne izgleda fantastično, dobro?

And the Exploratorium does that really, really well.

A Exploratorium to zaista dobro radi,

And it's amateur, but amateur in the best sense,

on je amaterski, ali amaterski u najboljem smislu te riječi,

in other words, the root of the word being of love and passion.

drugim riječima, u korijenu te riječi su ljubav i strast.

So, children are not empty vessels, OK?

Dakle, djeca nisu prazne posude, OK?

So, as "Monty Python" would have it,

Kako bi to Monty Python rekao,

this is a bit Lord Privy Seal to say so,

malo je lordovski šuplje to reći,

but this is -- children are not empty vessels.

ali želim reći da djeca nisu prazne posude.

They come with their own ideas and their own theories,

Ona dolaze s vlastitim idejama i vlastitim teorijama,

and unless you work with those, then you won't be able to shift them,

i ako ne radite s njima, nećete ih moći promijeniti,

right? And I probably haven't shifted your ideas

dobro? A vjerojatno ni ja nisam promijenio vaše ideje

of how the world and universe operates, either.

o funkcioniranju svijeta i svemira.

But this applies, equally, to matters of trying to sell new technology.

No ovo se jednako odnosi i na pitanje kako prodati novu tehnologiju.

For example, we are, in Britain, we're trying to do a digital switchover

Na primjer, mi – u Britaniji pokušavamo prebaciti

of the whole population into digital technology [for television].

cijelo stanovništvo na televizijsku digitalnu tehnologiju.

And it's one of the difficult things

A jedna od teškoća je u tome,

is that when people have preconceptions of how it all works,

kad ljudi imaju predrasude o tome kako to funkcionira,

it's quite difficult to shift those.

da je vrlo teško promijeniti ta uvjerenja.

So we're not empty vessels; the mental models that we have

Dakle, nismo prazne posude i mentalni modeli koje steknemo

as children persist into adulthood.

kao djeca traju i kad smo odrasli.

Poor teaching actually does more harm than good.

Loše podučavanje zapravo više šteti nego koristi.

In this country and in Britain, magnetism is understood better

U ovoj zemlji, i u Britaniji, djeca bolje razumiju

by children before they've been to school than afterwards, OK?

magnetizam prije škole nego nakon nje, OK?

Same for gravity, two concepts, so it's -- which is quite humbling,

Isto je s gravitacijom, dva koncepta, pa je – što je ponižavajuće,

as a, you know, if you're a teacher, and you look before and after,

znate, ako ste učitelj i pogledate rezultate prije i poslije,

that's quite worrying. They do worse in tests afterwards, after the teaching.

oni su zabrinjavajući. Djeca lošije rješavaju testove nakon podučavanja.

And we collude. We design tests,

A mi smišljamo, oblikujemo testove,

or at least in Britain, so that people pass them. Right?

barem u Britaniji, kako bi ih ljudi položili. Je li tako?

And governments do very well. They pat themselves on the back.

I vladama dobro ide. Zadovoljne su sobom.

OK? We collude, and actually if you --

OK? Mi smišljamo i kad biste vi --

if someone had designed a test for me

kad bi netko osmislio test za mene

when I was doing my biology exams,

dok sam polagao svoje ispite iz biologije,

to really understand, to see whether I'd understood

za razumijevanje – da provjeri jesam li razumio

more than just kind of putting starch and iodine together

više od običnog miješanja škroba i joda

and seeing it go blue,

i gledanja kako plavi,

and really understood that plants took their mass out of the air,

jesam li stvarno razumio da biljke svoju masu dobivaju iz zraka,

then I might have done better at science.

tada bih možda bio bolji u znanosti.

So the most important thing is to get people to articulate their models.

Najvažnija stvar je navesti ljude da objasne svoje modele.

Your homework is -- you know, how does an aircraft's wing create lift?

Zadaća za vas je – znate, kako krila podižu zrakoplov?

An obvious question, and you'll have an answer now in your heads.

Očito pitanje i sada imate odgovor u glavi,

And the second question to that then is,

ali onda je drugo pitanje u vezi toga,

ensure you've explained how it is that planes can fly upside down.

da obavezno objasnite kako to da zrakoplovi mogu letjeti naglavce.

Ah ha, right. Second question is, why is the sea blue? All right?

Aha, dobro. Drugo pitanje je zašto je more plavo? Dobro?

And you've all got an idea in your head of the answer.

I svi u glavi imate ideju rješenja.

So, why is it blue on cloudy days? Ah, see.

Dakle, zašto je plavo u oblačne dane? Aaa, vidite.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I've always wanted to say that in this country.

Oduvijek sam to htio reći u ovoj zemlji.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Finally, my plea to you is to allow yourselves, and your children,

Konačno, moja molba vama je da dopustite sebi, svojoj djeci

and anyone you know, to kind of fiddle with stuff,

i svakome koga znate da se malo igra sa stvarima,

because it's by fiddling with things that you, you know,

jer poigravanje sa stvarima,

you complement your other learning. It's not a replacement,

dopunjava vaše učenje. Ono nije zamjena,

it's just part of learning that's important.

već dio učenja koji je važan.

Thank you very much.

Hvala vam lijepa.

Now -- oh, oh yeah, go on then, go on.

O, o, da, hajde onda, hajde.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)