How the Panama Papers journalists broke the biggest leak in history | Gerard Ryle

129,203 views ・ 2016-08-26

TED


請雙擊下方英文字幕播放視頻。

譯者: Yolanda Wei 審譯者: 易帆 余
00:12
What do you do if you had to figure out the information
0
12610
2656
如果你必須找出 1150 萬筆 文件背後的資訊,
00:15
behind 11.5 million documents,
1
15290
2401
00:17
verify it and make sense of it?
2
17715
1896
並去判定、理解這些資訊時 你會怎麼做?
00:20
That was a challenge
3
20150
1152
這是去年,
00:21
that a group of journalists had to face late last year.
4
21326
2857
很多記者不得不面對的挑戰。
00:24
An anonymous person calling himself John Doe
5
24662
3436
一名自稱「張三」的匿名者
00:28
had somehow managed to copy nearly 40 years of records
6
28122
3052
設法成功拷貝了
巴拿馬律師事務所莫薩克・馮賽卡 將近 40 年的文件
00:31
of the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca.
7
31198
3500
00:35
This is one of many firms around the world
8
35317
2690
這是世界上其中一間
00:38
that specialize in setting up accounts in offshore tax havens
9
38031
3531
專門在海外避稅天堂 比如,英屬維爾京群島這種地方
00:41
like the British Virgin Islands,
10
41586
2000
幫客戶建立銀行帳戶的公司之一,
00:43
for rich and powerful people who like to keep secrets.
11
43610
3672
他們為這些想要 隱藏秘密的權貴者提供了這樣的管道。
00:48
John Doe had managed to copy every spreadsheet from this firm,
12
48195
3538
張三設法從這家公司拷貝了 每一張電子表格、
00:51
every client file,
13
51757
1594
每一份客戶檔案、
00:53
every email,
14
53375
1699
每一封電子郵件、
00:55
from 1977 to the present day.
15
55098
2779
時間從 1977 年至今
00:58
It represented the biggest cache
16
58912
2315
這是史上最大 避稅天堂系統的資訊洩密案。
01:01
of inside information into the tax haven system
17
61251
2786
01:04
that anyone had ever seen.
18
64061
1528
01:06
But it also presented a gigantic challenge to investigative journalism.
19
66092
4848
但它也為新聞調查帶來了巨大挑戰
01:11
Think about it: 11.5 million documents,
20
71870
3932
想像一下: 1150 萬文件
01:16
containing the secrets of people from more than 200 different countries.
21
76335
4090
其中包含著來自 200 多個 不同國家的秘密
01:20
Where do you start with such a vast resource?
22
80449
2477
面對這麼大的資源要從何下手?
01:22
Where do you even begin to tell a story
23
82950
2079
你要從何開始進行新聞報導 並追根究底到世上的每個角落?
01:25
that can trail off into every corner of the globe,
24
85053
2591
01:28
and that can affect almost any person in any language,
25
88367
3045
進而影響世上每一個人 來關注這件事,
01:31
sometimes in ways they don't even know yet.
26
91436
2427
我們的方式可能是 他們從未見過的。
01:34
John Doe had given the information to two journalists
27
94513
2502
張三把信息給了
01:37
at the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung.
28
97039
2615
德國《南德日報》的兩位記者,
01:40
He said he was motivated by -- and I quote --
29
100562
3234
他說他的動機是 ——我引用一下——
01:43
"The scale of the injustice that the documents would reveal."
30
103820
3580
「這些文件能揭示這世上 不公正的規模有多大」
01:48
But one user alone can never make sense
31
108401
1983
但是一個機構不可能憑一己之力
01:50
of such a vast amount of information.
32
110408
1930
理解如此大量的信息,
01:52
So the Süddeutsche Zeitung reached out
33
112362
1862
所以《南德日報》聯繫了
01:54
to my organization in Washington, DC,
34
114248
2744
我位於美國華盛頓特區的機構
01:57
The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.
35
117016
3371
「國際調查記者同盟」,
02:01
We decided to do something that was the very opposite
36
121926
2574
我們決定要做一些不同於
02:04
of everything we'd been taught to do as journalists:
37
124524
2741
以往記者被教導的辦事方法,
02:07
share.
38
127289
1155
「分享」
02:08
(Laughter)
39
128468
1381
(笑聲)
02:10
By nature, investigative reporters are lone wolves.
40
130324
3654
記者的天性就像孤狼,
02:14
We fiercely guard our secrets,
41
134002
1829
我們兇猛地捍衛著我們的機密
02:15
at times even from our editors,
42
135855
1534
有時候甚至不讓編輯知道,
02:17
because we know that the moment we tell them what we have,
43
137413
2860
因為我們知道 一旦告訴他們我們手頭的報導
02:20
they'll want that story right away.
44
140297
1880
他們立刻就會想把報導佔為己有
02:22
And to be frank,
45
142691
1298
老實說,
02:24
when you get a good story,
46
144607
1422
當你有了一篇精彩的新聞報導
02:26
you like to keep the glory to yourself.
47
146053
2404
你會想獨享這份榮耀,
02:29
But there's no doubt that we live in a shrinking world,
48
149733
2609
毫無疑問,我們正生活在 一個日漸緊密的世界,
02:32
and that the media has largely been slow to wake up to this.
49
152366
3169
但媒體業卻很晚 才體認到這一點。
02:35
The issues we report on are more and more transnational.
50
155559
3036
我們報導的事件越來越跨國界。
02:39
Giant corporations operate on a global level.
51
159135
2728
大型公司的跨國經營、
02:42
Environmental and health crises are global.
52
162441
3293
環境和健康問題 都是全球性的挑戰。
02:45
So, too, are financial flows and financial crises.
53
165758
2969
同理,資金流動和 經濟危機也是如此。
02:49
So it seems staggering that journalism has been so late
54
169488
3004
所以,新聞界這麼晚
02:52
to cover stories in a truly global way.
55
172516
2552
才進行全球化報導 的確令人驚訝,
02:55
And it also seems staggering that journalism has been so slow
56
175783
3004
同樣令人驚訝的是 新聞業竟這麼晚
02:58
to wake up to the possibilities that technology brings,
57
178811
3409
才體認到科技所帶來的可能性,
03:02
rather than being frightened of it.
58
182244
2004
而不是害怕科技。
03:05
The reason journalists are scared of technology is this:
59
185666
2949
記者這麼害怕科技的原因是:
03:09
the profession's largest institutions are going through tough times
60
189477
3560
這個最大的專業機構 正在經歷困難時期,
03:13
because of the changing way that people are consuming news.
61
193061
3238
因為人們閱讀新聞 的方式已經改變,
03:16
The advertising business models that have sustained reporting are broken.
62
196958
4492
支持新聞業的 廣告商業模式已經瓦解。
03:21
And this has plunged journalism into crisis,
63
201890
2658
這使新聞業陷入困境,
03:24
forcing those institutions to reexamine how they function.
64
204572
4095
迫使這些機構 反思他們如何運作,
03:30
But where there is crisis,
65
210258
1653
但有危必有機,
03:31
there is also opportunity.
66
211935
1523
03:34
The first challenge presented
67
214013
1454
第一個挑戰是
03:35
by what would eventually become known as the Panama Papers
68
215491
2848
最終要如何把 這份知名的巴拿馬文件
03:38
was to make the documents searchable and readable.
69
218363
2549
變得可被搜索和可被閱讀。
03:40
There were nearly five million emails,
70
220936
2627
這裡有將近五百萬封電子郵件,
03:43
two million PDFs that needed to be scanned and indexed,
71
223587
3313
兩百萬份需要 被掃描和索引的電子文件
03:46
and millions more files and other kinds of documents.
72
226924
2812
還有成百萬的文件夾 和其他類型的文件。
03:50
They all needed to be housed in a safe and secure location
73
230162
2837
他們都需要被存放在
一個安全又保密的雲端。
03:53
in the cloud.
74
233023
1157
03:54
We next invited reporters to have a look at the documents.
75
234961
3471
我們接下來,邀請 全球的記者來看這些文件,
03:58
In all, reporters from more than 100 media organizations
76
238456
3860
總共有 76 個國家,
04:02
in 76 countries --
77
242340
1643
超過 100 個媒體機構 的記者參與。
04:04
from the BBC in Britain
78
244433
2045
有來自英國廣播公司的、
04:06
to Le Monde newspaper in France
79
246502
2216
法國世界報的、
04:08
to the Asahi Shimbun in Japan.
80
248742
2388
日本朝日新聞。
04:12
"Native eyes on native names," we called it, the idea being,
81
252473
3750
我們把這方法稱為 《用本地人的眼睛來辨識本地人的名字》
04:16
who best to tell you who was important to Nigeria
82
256247
3359
誰能比奈吉利亞的記者
04:19
than a Nigerian journalist?
83
259630
1570
更能辨認出奈吉利亞的重要人物?
04:21
Who best in Canada than a Canadian?
84
261623
2125
誰能比加拿大記者 更能說明加拿大的情況呢?
04:24
There were only two rules for everyone who was invited:
85
264247
3056
被邀請來的記者只要遵守兩個規則:
04:27
we all agreed to share everything that we found with everybody else,
86
267327
4182
一是我們都同意分享 我們和別人找到的任何信息,
04:32
and we all agreed to publish together on the same day.
87
272335
2634
二是我們都同意在同一天發表結果,
04:35
We chose our media partners based on trust
88
275769
2035
我們用信任基礎, 來篩選媒體夥伴,
04:37
that had been built up through previous smaller collaborations
89
277828
3218
這信任可能是來自於 之前的合作,
04:41
and also from leads that jumped out from the documents.
90
281070
3007
也來自於在文件中發現的線索。
04:44
Over the next few months,
91
284625
1235
後來的幾個月,
04:45
my small nonprofit organization of less than 20 people
92
285884
2658
我這邊不到 20 人的非營利組織
04:48
was joined by more than 350 other reporters from 25 language groups.
93
288566
4433
加入了來自 25 種語言區 超過 350 名的記者。
04:54
The biggest information leak in history
94
294035
1922
有史以來最大的信息洩漏
04:55
had now spawned the biggest journalism collaboration in history:
95
295981
3396
也催生了有史以來 最大的新聞業合作
05:00
376 sets of native eyes doing what journalists normally never do,
96
300091
6088
376 名記者做著 他們平常不會做的事情,
05:06
working shoulder to shoulder,
97
306203
1611
並肩作戰
05:07
sharing information,
98
307838
1626
分享信息,
05:09
but telling no one.
99
309488
1417
但是不能對外公佈。
05:12
For it became clear at this point
100
312102
1599
因為這時我們都清楚
05:13
that in order to make the biggest kind of noise,
101
313725
2357
要造成最大程度的轟動
05:16
we first needed the biggest kind of silence.
102
316106
3185
我們必須先保持最大程度的肅靜。
05:20
To manage the project over the many months it would take,
103
320490
2730
這個項目預期要進行幾個月,
05:23
we built a secure virtual newsroom.
104
323244
1817
我們建造了安全的 虛擬新聞編輯室,
05:25
We used encrypted communication systems,
105
325085
2475
我們使用加密的溝通系統,
05:28
and we built a specially designed search engine.
106
328157
2690
我們特地設計了 一個專用的搜索引擎。
05:30
Inside the virtual newsroom,
107
330871
1627
在這虛擬新聞編輯室裏面,
05:32
the reporters could gather around the themes
108
332522
2087
記者可以根據主題
05:34
that were emerging from the documents.
109
334633
1981
搜集文件中出現的信息。
05:36
Those interested in blood diamonds or exotic art, for instance,
110
336638
5306
比如對血鑽石 或者東方古董感興趣的人,
05:41
could share information about how the offshore world was being used
111
341968
3190
可以分享這些人 是如何利用境外世界
05:45
to hide the trade in both of those commodities.
112
345182
2207
來暗中進行商品的交易。
05:47
Those interested in sport could share information
113
347413
2440
對體育感興趣的人,
05:49
about how famous sports stars were putting their image rights
114
349877
3265
可以分享體育明星們是如何
把自己的肖像權 讓海外公司使用,
05:53
into offshore companies,
115
353166
1524
05:54
thereby likely avoiding taxes
116
354714
2263
從而
在他們所在的國家中避稅。
05:57
in the countries where they plied their trade.
117
357001
2476
06:00
But perhaps most exciting of all
118
360097
1788
但也許其中最激動人心的
06:01
were the number of world leaders and elect politicians
119
361909
3477
是文件中出現的
世界領袖和民選政治人物。
06:05
that were emerging from the documents --
120
365410
2028
06:08
figures like Petro Poroshenko in Ukraine,
121
368540
3009
比如烏克蘭的波羅申科、
06:12
close associates of Vladimir Putin in Russia
122
372824
3526
俄羅斯的普京的親信、
06:17
and the British Prime Minister, David Cameron, who is linked
123
377852
3157
和英國首相大衛 · 卡梅隆,
06:21
through his late father, Ian Cameron.
124
381033
2317
他已故的父親伊恩 · 卡梅隆 出現在文件中。
06:24
Buried in the documents were secret offshore entities,
125
384529
3231
文件裏還藏著秘密的 海外實體公司
06:27
such as Wintris Inc.,
126
387784
1788
比如 Wintris 公司,
06:30
a company in the British Virgin Islands
127
390427
1876
它在英屬維爾京群島建立,
06:32
that had actually belonged to the sitting Icelandic prime minister.
128
392327
3642
實際上這家公司是 當時冰島總理的公司。
06:36
I like to refer to Johannes Kristjansson,
129
396435
2411
其中功不可沒的是 約翰內斯 · 克里斯詹森,
06:38
the Icelandic reporter we invited to join the project,
130
398870
2917
他是受我們邀請 加入這項目的冰島記者,
06:41
as the loneliest man in the world.
131
401811
1872
可以被稱為這世界上最孤獨的人。
06:44
For nine months, he refused paid work
132
404231
2289
九個月以來,他拒接有酬勞的工作,
06:46
and lived off the earnings of his wife.
133
406544
2083
依靠妻子的收入生活。
06:49
He pasted tarps over the windows of his home
134
409308
2083
在冰島漫長的冬天
06:51
to prevent prying eyes during the long Icelandic winter.
135
411415
3530
他在自己家中的窗戶上 粘貼防水膠布,防止被窺探。
06:55
And he soon ran out of excuses to explain his many absences,
136
415505
3798
不久他就用完了所有 他長時間缺勤的藉口。
06:59
as he worked red-eyed,
137
419327
1566
他工作到眼睛充滿血絲, 日復一日,月復一月
07:00
night after night,
138
420917
1206
07:02
month after month.
139
422147
1237
07:03
In all that time, he sat on information
140
423972
2348
長久以來,他掌握著
07:06
that would eventually bring down the leader of his country.
141
426344
3243
足以使他的國家領導人 下台的資訊。
07:10
Now, when you're an investigative reporter and you make an amazing discovery,
142
430100
3689
現在,想像你是一位記者 你正在進行驚人的調查,
07:13
such as your prime minster can be linked to a secret offshore company,
143
433813
3881
比如發現了總理 和秘密海外公司有關係,
07:17
that that company has a financial interest in Icelandic banks --
144
437718
4126
那間公司在冰島銀行 獲得了巨額的經濟利益,
07:21
the very issue he's been elected on --
145
441868
2350
而這正是他被選上的原因,
07:24
well, your instinct is to scream out very loud.
146
444242
2650
你肯定想大聲宣佈。
07:28
Instead, as one of the few people that he could speak to,
147
448044
2894
但是,作為能與他交談的 少數幾個人之一
07:30
Johannes and I shared a kind of gallows humor.
148
450962
2951
我和約翰內斯都有一種 共同的黑色幽默,
07:34
"Wintris is coming," he used to say.
149
454391
1721
他曾經說,「Wintris要來了」 (相關語:凜冬將至)
07:36
(Laughter)
150
456136
1529
(笑聲)
07:37
(Applause)
151
457689
1997
(掌聲)
07:41
We were big fans of "Game of Thrones."
152
461314
2250
我們都是《權力遊戲》 的 忠實粉絲。
07:44
When reporters like Johannes wanted to scream,
153
464759
3136
當像約翰內斯這樣的記者 想要大聲吶喊時,
07:47
they did so inside the virtual newsroom,
154
467919
2675
他們會在虛擬新聞 編輯室中這樣做,
07:50
and then they turned those screams into stories
155
470618
2219
接著他們把這些呐喊 轉變成新聞報導,
07:52
by going outside the documents to court records,
156
472861
3118
從文件的信息查到法庭記錄
07:56
official company registers,
157
476479
1660
查到官方的公司註冊信息
07:58
and by eventually putting questions to those that we intended to name.
158
478163
4045
最後向我們的目標人物提出質問。
08:03
Panama Papers actually allowed the reporters to look at the world
159
483178
4032
巴拿馬文件實際上讓記者
用不同於一般人的角度去觀察世界。
08:07
through a different lens from everybody else.
160
487234
2616
08:09
As we were researching the story,
161
489874
1920
當我們在進行新聞調查的時候
08:11
unconnected to us,
162
491818
1418
有的新聞和我們無關,
08:13
a major political bribery scandal happened in Brazil.
163
493260
3131
巴西發生了重大的政治賄賂醜聞,
08:17
A new leader was elected in Argentina.
164
497339
2615
阿根廷投票產生了新的領導,
08:20
The FBI began to indict officials at FIFA,
165
500608
3891
美國聯邦調查局開始起訴 國際足球聯合會的官員,
08:24
the organization that controls the world of professional soccer.
166
504523
3803
FIFA是控制世界職業足球 比賽的組織。
08:29
The Panama Papers actually had unique insights
167
509089
2277
巴拿馬文件實際上
08:31
into each one of these unfolding events.
168
511390
2246
對每件揭露的事 都有著獨特的洞察力。
08:33
So you can imagine the pressure and the ego dramas
169
513660
3440
所以你可以想像我們承受著
足以摧毀我們事業的壓力和自負。
08:37
that could have ruined what we were trying to do.
170
517124
2489
08:39
Any of one of these journalists,
171
519637
1538
團隊中的每一個記者,
08:41
they could have broken the pact.
172
521199
1721
都有可能違反協議,
08:42
But they didn't.
173
522944
1150
但他們並沒有這樣做。
08:44
And on April 3 this year,
174
524464
1568
今年的 4 月 3 日
08:46
at exactly 8pm German time,
175
526056
2181
在德國時間的下午八點整
08:48
we published simultaneously in 76 countries.
176
528261
3477
我們在 76 個國家 同時發佈了新聞。
08:52
(Applause)
177
532220
6983
(掌聲)
09:03
The Panama Papers quickly became one of the biggest stories of the year.
178
543640
3612
巴拿馬文件很快成為了 今年最轟動的事件之一。
09:07
This is the scene in Iceland the day after we published.
179
547276
3204
這是我們發表後 隔天在冰島的景象,
09:10
It was the first of many protests.
180
550504
2144
這是眾多抗議遊行的開端;
09:13
The Icelandic prime minister had to resign.
181
553047
2360
冰島的總理不得不辭職,
09:15
It was a first of many resignations.
182
555431
2348
這也是眾多領導下台的開端。
09:18
We spotlighted many famous people such as Lionel Messi,
183
558275
3563
我們關注許多名人 比如萊昂內爾·梅西,
09:21
the most famous soccer player in the world.
184
561862
2328
他是全世界最著名的足球運動員。
09:24
And there were some unintended consequences.
185
564726
2290
也有一些我們沒有預料到的後果:
09:27
These alleged members of a Mexican drug cartel were arrested
186
567454
3677
這些墨西哥販毒集團的成員被捕了
09:31
after we published details about their hideout.
187
571155
2851
因為我們公佈了他們巢穴的具體信息,
09:34
They'd been using the address
188
574615
1940
他們一直用同一個地址
09:36
to register their offshore company.
189
576579
1970
來註冊他們的海外公司。
09:38
(Laughter)
190
578573
2795
(笑聲)
09:43
There's a kind of irony in what we've been able to do.
191
583091
2561
我們做的事情也有諷刺的一面
09:45
The technology -- the Internet -- that has broken the business model
192
585676
3706
科技、網路這些曾經 破壞了新聞商業模式的東西
09:49
is allowing us to reinvent journalism itself.
193
589406
2554
正在幫助我們重塑新聞業。
09:52
And this dynamic is producing
194
592516
1688
這樣的改變已經正在進行
09:54
unprecedented levels of transparency and impact.
195
594228
2840
前所未有的透明度和影響力。
09:57
We showed how a group of journalists can effect change across the world
196
597772
3486
我們這一群記者向世人展示了 我們將如何影響並改變全世界,
10:01
by applying new methods and old-fashioned journalism techniques
197
601282
3980
藉由應用新方法 和傳統新聞技巧的結合
10:05
to vast amounts of leaked information.
198
605286
2404
來擴大資訊披露的數量。
10:08
We put all-important context around what was given to us by John Doe.
199
608319
4252
我們把「匿名者」提供的 重要內容放在一起。
10:13
And by sharing resources,
200
613205
1585
透過資源共享,
10:14
we were able to dig deep --
201
614814
1689
我們能挖得更深——
10:16
much deeper and longer than most media organizations allow these days,
202
616527
4375
比現在的大多數媒體機構 能挖得更深更久,
10:20
because of financial concerns.
203
620926
1743
因為他們有財務上的考量。
10:23
Now, it was a big risk,
204
623500
1583
現在,這是一個重大挑戰,
10:25
and it wouldn't work for every story,
205
625107
1988
它不一定在每一個新聞報導中 都起積極作用,
10:27
but we showed with the Panama Papers
206
627119
2004
但我們透過巴拿馬文件向世人展示
10:29
that you can write about any country from just about anywhere,
207
629147
2938
不論你在哪裡都能報導 任何國家的新聞,
10:32
and then choose your preferred battleground to defend your work.
208
632109
3514
還能選擇你最感興趣的領域進行報導,
10:36
Try obtaining a court injunction
209
636195
1575
嘗試去獲得法庭的禁令
10:37
that would prevent the telling of a story in 76 different countries.
210
637794
3920
這樣可以避免來自 76 國家 新聞報導的洩漏,
10:42
Try stopping the inevitable.
211
642377
1687
嘗試阻止不可避免的事。
10:45
Shortly after we published, I got a three-word text from Johannes:
212
645353
3730
在我們發佈後不久 我收到了約翰內斯的短信:
10:49
"Wintris has arrived."
213
649804
2218
「凜冬已至」
10:52
(Laughter)
214
652046
1398
(笑聲)
10:53
It had arrived and so, too, perhaps has a new era for journalism.
215
653468
3732
也許新聞業的新時代 也已經來臨了。
10:57
Thank you.
216
657673
1156
謝謝
10:58
(Applause)
217
658853
6954
(掌聲)
11:09
Bruno Giussani: Gerard, thank you.
218
669612
1660
布魯諾 · 朱薩尼: 傑拉德,謝謝你。
11:11
I guess you're going to send that applause to the 350 journalists
219
671296
3075
我想你會把這些掌聲
送給和你並肩作戰的 350 名記者,對吧。
11:14
who worked with you, right?
220
674395
1578
11:15
Now, a couple of questions I would like to ask.
221
675997
2211
現在,我想問幾個問題:
11:18
The first one is,
222
678232
1167
第一個是
11:19
you'd been working in secrecy for over a year
223
679423
2668
你曾經和 350 多個 來自世界各地的同事
11:22
with 350-something colleagues from all over the world --
224
682115
3626
秘密工作超過了一年,
11:25
was there ever a moment when you thought
225
685765
3331
有沒有一個時刻你覺得
11:29
that the leak may be leaked,
226
689120
2128
巴拿馬文件的報導已經被洩漏了,
11:31
that the collaboration may just be broken
227
691272
2703
合作關係已經破壞了,
11:33
by somebody publishing a story?
228
693999
1579
因為有人擅自發佈了新聞,
11:35
Or somebody not in the group releasing some information
229
695602
2818
或者有不在組織內的某個人 泄露了消息
11:38
that they got to know?
230
698444
1321
因為他們早就知道了?
11:40
Gerard Ryle: We had a series of crises along the way,
231
700228
2652
傑拉德 · 賴爾:我們一路以來 都有一系列的危機,
11:42
including when something major was happening in the world,
232
702904
2731
包括世界上某些重大事件發生時,
11:45
the journalists from that country wanted to publish right away.
233
705659
3023
這些國家的記者 都想要立刻披露新聞,
11:48
We had to calm them down.
234
708706
1209
但我們必須讓他們冷靜下來。
11:49
Probably the biggest crisis we had was a week before publication.
235
709939
3144
也許我們最重大的危機 是在發佈前的一週,
11:53
We'd sent a series of questions to the associates of Vladimir Putin,
236
713107
4011
我們給普京的聯繫人 發出了一系列的質問,
11:57
but instead of responding,
237
717142
1493
他們沒有回覆,
11:58
the Kremlin actually held a press conference and denounced us,
238
718659
2963
克林姆林宮反而召開了 新聞發佈會並譴責我們,
12:01
and denounced the whole thing as being, I guess, a plot from the West.
239
721646
3417
譴責整個事件是西方的陰謀。
12:05
At that point, Putin thought it was just about him.
240
725087
3016
當時普京以為這只是針對他的。
12:08
And, of course, a lot of editors around the world
241
728127
2504
當然了,全世界的編輯
12:10
were very nervous about this.
242
730655
1701
都十分緊張,
12:12
They thought the story was going to get out.
243
732380
2063
他們以為這個新聞就要被搶先公佈了。
12:14
You can imagine the amount of time they'd spent,
244
734467
2253
你可以想想他們為此花費的時間、
12:16
the amount of resources, money spent on this.
245
736744
2159
精力和金錢。
12:18
So I had to basically spend the last week calming everyone down,
246
738927
3037
所以我在最後一週 必須讓每個人冷靜下來。
12:21
a bit like a general, where you're holding your troops back:
247
741988
2882
這有點像將軍在帶兵作戰, 當你要全力攻擊時,
12:24
"Calm, remain calm."
248
744894
1300
你會向軍隊說 ,「冷靜,保持冷靜 」
12:26
And then eventually, of course, they all did.
249
746218
2152
當然,最後大家都做到了。
12:29
BG: And then a couple weeks ago or so,
250
749323
2468
布魯諾 · 朱薩尼:幾個星期前,
12:31
you released a lot of the documents as an open database
251
751815
3969
你把很多文件發表在公開數據庫,
12:35
for everybody to search via keyword, essentially.
252
755808
2736
所以任何人都可以 通過關鍵詞進行查找。
12:39
GR: We very much believe
253
759029
1165
傑拉德 · 賴爾:我們深信
12:40
that the basic information about the offshore world
254
760218
2402
這些離岸世界的基本信息
12:42
should be made public.
255
762644
1153
都應該公諸於世。
12:43
Now, we didn't publish the underlying documents
256
763821
2877
現在,我們並不是公佈那些
12:46
of the journalists we're working with.
257
766722
1865
與我們合作的記者找出的深層信息,
12:48
But the basic information such as the name of a person,
258
768611
2582
而只是公佈基本信息,比如人名、
12:51
what their offshore company was and the name of that company,
259
771217
2924
他們的海外公司在做什麼 和公司名字,
12:54
is now all available online.
260
774165
1356
這些都應該能在網上找到。
12:55
In fact, the biggest resource of its kind basically is out there now
261
775545
3960
事實上,這些大型資源 現在都公佈在網路上。
13:00
BG: Gerard, thank you for the work you do.
262
780374
1873
布魯諾 · 朱薩尼:傑拉德, 謝謝你所有的努力。
13:02
GR: Thank you.
263
782271
1158
傑拉德 · 賴爾:謝謝。
13:03
(Applause)
264
783453
3513
(掌聲)
關於本網站

本網站將向您介紹對學習英語有用的 YouTube 視頻。 您將看到來自世界各地的一流教師教授的英語課程。 雙擊每個視頻頁面上顯示的英文字幕,從那裡播放視頻。 字幕與視頻播放同步滾動。 如果您有任何意見或要求,請使用此聯繫表與我們聯繫。

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7