Steve Howard: Let's go all-in on selling sustainability

196,878 views ・ 2013-10-21

TED


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譯者: Regina Chu 審譯者: lin piao
00:12
I've spent my life working on sustainability.
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我畢生都為永續發展而努力
00:15
I set up a climate change NGO
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我成立了一個氣候變遷非政府組織
00:17
called The Climate Group.
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叫做 The Climate Group (氣候組群)
00:18
I worked on forestry issues in WWF.
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我在世界自然基金會處理林業問題
00:21
I worked on development and agriculture issues
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我也致力於經濟開發及農業問題
00:23
in the U.N. system.
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在聯合國體系內
00:25
About 25 years in total,
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我用了總共約 25 年時間致力於永續
00:27
and then three years ago, I found myself talking to
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然而三年前,我發現我自己在
00:30
IKEA's CEO about joining his team.
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與宜家家居執行長談加入他的團隊的事情
00:33
Like many people here, well,
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就像在座許多人一樣,嗯
00:35
I want to maximize my personal impact in the world,
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我想極大化我個人在世界上的影響力
00:39
so I'm going to explain why I joined the team there.
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所以我要跟各位解釋 為什麼我要加入那個團隊
00:44
But first, let's just take three numbers.
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但首先,讓我們先談談三個數字
00:47
The first number is three:
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第一個數字是三
00:49
three billion people.
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「三」十億人
00:50
This is the number of people joining
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這個數字是有多少人
00:52
the global middle class by 2030,
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能在 2030 年前加入全球中產階級
00:54
coming out of poverty.
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脫離貧窮
00:55
It's fantastic for them and their families,
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對他們及其家人而言這棒極了
00:58
but we've got two billion people in the global middle class today,
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但今天我們已有 二十億全球中產階級人口
01:01
and this swells that number to five,
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而這數字還要膨脹到五(十億)
01:03
a big challenge when we already have resource scarcity.
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在我們已經資源不足的情況下 這是很大的挑戰
01:06
The second number is six:
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第二個數字是六
01:08
This is six degrees centigrade,
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這是指攝氏六度
01:10
what we're heading towards in terms of global warming.
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這是我們在全球暖化上的走向
01:13
We're not heading towards one degree or three degrees
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我們不是只增加一度或三度
01:15
or four degrees, we're heading toward six degrees.
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或四度,我們是朝六度邁進
01:17
And if you think about it, all of the weird weather
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如果你回想一下,在過去幾年我們經歷的
01:20
we've been having the last few years,
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那些奇怪的天氣
01:22
much of that is due to just one degree warming,
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很多都只是因為暖化了一度
01:24
and we need CO2 emissions to peak
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而我們要讓全球二氧化碳排放量
01:27
by the end of this decade globally
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在 2020 年結束前達到高峰
01:29
and then come down.
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然後下降
01:31
It's not inevitable, but we need to act decisively.
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這不是不可避免的 但我們必須果斷做出行動
01:35
The third number is 12:
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第三個數字是 12
01:36
That's the number of cities in the world
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這是這世界有多少城市
01:38
that had a million or more people
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有一百萬以上的人口
01:40
when my grandmother was born.
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在我祖母出生之時
01:41
You can see my grandmother there.
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你看這是我祖母
01:43
That was in the beginning of the last century.
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那是上世紀初的時候
01:45
So just 12 cities. She was born in Manchester, England,
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所以那時只有 12 個城市 她在曼徹斯特出生
01:47
the ninth largest city in the world.
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當時的世界第九大都市
01:49
Now there are 500 cities, nearly,
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現在全球已經有將近五百個都市
01:52
with a million people or more in them.
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有一百萬以上的人口
01:54
And if you look at the century from 1950 to 2050,
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如果你縱覽 1950 到 2050 這一百年
01:57
that's the century when we build all the world's cities,
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這是我們建造全球都市的一百年
02:01
the century that we're in the middle of right now.
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我們現在就在這百年中間
02:03
Every other century was kind of practice,
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之前的其他百年就像是一種預演
02:06
and this lays down a blueprint for how we live.
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而這奠定了我們生活的藍圖
02:11
So think about it.
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所以應該好好想想
02:13
We're building cities like never before,
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我們正以前所未見的方式建造城市
02:16
bringing people out of poverty like never before,
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以前所未見的方式 把人們從貧窮中拯救出來
02:18
and changing the climate like never before.
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並以前所未見的方式改變氣候
02:21
Sustainability has gone from a nice-to-do
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永續已經從可行
02:24
to a must-do.
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變成必行的事
02:25
it's about what we do right here, right now,
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這與我們此時此刻在做什麼
02:28
and for the rest of our working lives.
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及我們未來的工作該做什麼有關
02:32
So I'm going to talk a little bit about
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所以我要談一談
02:34
what business can do
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企業能做什麼
02:35
and what a business like IKEA can do,
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像宜家家居這樣的公司能做什麼
02:37
and we have a sustainability strategy
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我們的永續策略
02:40
called "people and planet positive"
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稱為「人類與地球正能量」
02:42
to help guide our business to have a positive impact on the world.
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以幫助我們的企業給 世界帶來正面影響
02:46
Why would we not want to have a positive impact
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身為企業, 我們怎麼會不想給這個世界
02:48
on the world as a business?
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帶來正面影響呢?
02:51
Other companies have sustainability strategies.
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其他公司都有永續策略
02:53
I'm going to refer to some of those as well,
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我也一會兒會講到他們,
02:55
and I'm just going to mention a few
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我也會提出一些
02:56
of the commitments as illustrations that we've got.
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承諾的實證
02:59
But first, let's think of customers.
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但首先讓我們先想一下顧客
03:01
We know from asking people from China to the U.S.
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我們從詢問人們得知 無論是中國人或美國人
03:05
that the vast majority of people care about sustainability
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絕大多數的人都關心永續
03:08
after the day-to-day issues,
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在日常瑣事之餘
03:10
the day-to-day issues of, how do I get my kids to school?
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這些日常瑣事 像我怎樣讓孩子去學校?
03:13
Can I pay the bills at the end of the month?
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月底付不付得了帳單?
03:15
Then they care about big issues like climate change.
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之後他們會關心大的議題 像氣候變遷
03:18
But they want it to be easy, affordable and attractive,
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但他們希望它簡單、實惠而且吸引人
03:22
and they expect business to help,
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而且他們期望企業幫助
03:24
and they're a little bit disappointed today.
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所以現在他們有點失望
03:27
So take your mind back and think
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所以請你回想一下
03:30
of the first sustainable products.
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第一個永續產品
03:31
We had detergents that could wash your whites grayer.
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我們有洗衣精把你的白衣愈洗愈灰
03:35
We had the early energy-efficient light bulbs
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我們有早期的省電燈泡
03:38
that took five minutes to warm up
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要等五分鐘預熱
03:40
and then you were left looking a kind of sickly color.
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而且會讓你看起來病懨懨的
03:43
And we had the rough, recycled toilet paper.
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然後我們還有粗糙 回收紙製成的衛生紙
03:47
So every time you pulled on a t-shirt,
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所以每次你穿上 T 恤
03:49
or switched the light on, or went to the bathroom,
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或開燈,或去洗手間
03:52
or sometimes all three together,
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或偶爾三者同時做的時候
03:53
you were reminded sustainability was about compromise.
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你就被提醒要永續就要有所犧牲
03:57
It wasn't a great start.
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這不是很好的開始
04:00
Today we have choices.
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今天我們有選擇了
04:02
We can make products that are beautiful or ugly,
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我們可以選擇製造美或醜
04:05
sustainable or unsustainable, affordable or expensive,
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永續或不永續,實惠或昂貴
04:10
functional or useless.
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有用或無用的產品
04:12
So let's make beautiful, functional, affordable,
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所以讓我們製造美觀實用又實惠的
04:15
sustainable products.
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永續產品
04:17
Let's take the LED.
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就來談談 LED (發光二極體)
04:19
The LED is the next best thing to daylight.
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LED 是僅次於日光的最佳光源
04:23
The old-fashioned lightbulbs, the incandescent bulbs --
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老式傳統燈泡,就是白熾燈泡——
04:26
I'm not going to ask for a show of hands
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我沒有要大家舉手
04:27
of how many of you still have them in your homes,
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看有多少人家裡還有這個東西
04:30
wasting energy every time you switch them on --
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每次開燈都在浪費能源——
04:33
change them after this --
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聽完這段演講就去換掉——
04:34
or whether we have them on the stage here at TED or not --
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或是我們 TED 舞台上的燈是不是這種——
04:38
but those old incandescent light bulbs
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但是那些老式白熾電燈泡
04:41
really should have been sold as heaters.
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真的應該被當作暖爐來賣
04:44
They were mis-sold for more than a hundred years.
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他們錯賣超過一百年
04:46
They produced heat and a little bit of light on the side.
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他們產生熱能順便產生一點光
04:49
Now we have lights that produce light
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而現在我們有燈泡會發光
04:51
and a little bit of heat on the side.
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卻很少產熱
04:53
You save 85 percent of the electricity with an LED
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用 LED 燈,你節省 85% 的電力
04:55
that you would have done in an old incandescent.
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比之於你使用老式白熾電燈泡
04:58
And the best thing is, they'll also last
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而最棒的是,他們可維持壽命
04:59
for more than 20 years.
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超過 20 年
05:01
So think about that.
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所以想想吧
05:02
You'll change your smartphone seven or eight times,
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這期間你會換智慧手機七八次
05:05
probably more if you're in this audience.
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現場觀眾可能還會換更多次
05:07
You'll change your car, if you have one, three or four times.
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如果你有車你會換車三四次
05:09
Your kids could go to school, go to college,
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你的孩子會上學,上大學
05:12
go away and have kids of their own, come back,
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離家還有了自己的孩子,
05:14
bring the grandkids,
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帶著孫子回來看你
05:15
you'll have the same lightbulb saving you energy.
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你的電燈泡還是原來那顆,持續節能
05:19
So LEDs are fantastic.
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所以 LED 太棒了
05:22
What we decided to do
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我們決定要做的
05:23
was not to sell LEDs on the side marked up high
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不是把 LED 燈價錢標高放在旁邊
05:26
and continue to push all the old bulbs,
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然後繼續促銷那些老式燈泡
05:29
the halogens and the CFLs.
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就是鹵素燈泡及省電型螢光燈泡
05:31
We decided, over the next two years,
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我們決定,在未來兩年
05:34
we will ban the halogens and the CFLs ourselves.
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我們自己要禁止使用鹵素燈泡 及省電型螢光燈泡
05:36
We will go all in.
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我們要全力投注
05:37
And this is what business needs to do: go all-in,
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而這是所有的企業<br/>都需要做的:全力投注
05:39
go 100 percent,
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下 100% 的賭注
05:41
because then you stop investing in the old stuff,
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因為這樣你才會停止投資舊東西
05:42
you invest in the new stuff, you lower costs,
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你會投資在新東西上,你會降低成本
05:44
you use your supply chain and your creativity
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你會利用你的供應鏈及你的創造力
05:47
and you get the prices down so everybody can afford
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你會把價格降低所以每個人都買得起
05:49
the best lights so they can save energy.
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最好的燈泡,所以他們能節省能源
05:52
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
05:57
It's not just about products in people's homes.
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這不僅僅只限於人們的家用品
06:00
We've got to think about the raw materials
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我們還必須想到
06:01
that produce our products.
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生產我們產品的原物料
06:03
Obviously there's fantastic opportunities
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很明顯有很棒的機會
06:05
with recycled materials,
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能利用回收材質
06:07
and we can and will go zero waste.
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而且我們可以、也會走向零浪費
06:10
And there's opportunities in a circular economy.
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在循環經濟裡有的是機會
06:12
But we're still dependent on natural, raw materials.
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但我們仍然依賴自然的原物料
06:15
Let's take cotton.
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就以棉來舉例
06:17
Cotton's brilliant. Probably many people
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棉很棒。大概很多人
06:19
are wearing cotton right now.
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現在就穿著棉製品
06:20
It's a brilliant textile in use.
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這是很好利用的紡織品
06:22
It's really dirty in production.
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製程卻真的很髒
06:23
It uses lots of pesticides, lots of fertilizer, lots of water.
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它要用很多的殺蟲劑 很多的肥料,很多的水
06:27
So we've worked with others,
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所以我們與別人合作
06:29
with other businesses and NGOs,
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與其他企業及非政府組織合作
06:30
on the Better Cotton Initiative,
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提出棉花更環保倡議
06:32
working right back down to the farm,
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回頭從種植的農地開始更環保
06:35
and there you can halve the amount of water
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在農地你能把水用量減半
06:36
and halve the chemical inputs,
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並減半化肥施用量
06:38
the yields increase, and 60 percent of the costs
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產量增加,這些低收入農夫
06:41
of running many of these farms
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經營的這些農場
06:43
with farmers with low incomes
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60% 的成本
06:45
can be chemical imports.
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是化肥進口費用
06:46
Yields increase, and you halve the input costs.
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產量增加且減半施用成本
06:49
Farmers are coming out of poverty. They love it.
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農夫就可從貧窮脫身。他們喜歡這樣的計劃
06:52
Already hundreds of thousands of farmers
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已有數以萬計的農夫
06:53
have been reached,
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已被接洽過
06:55
and now we've got 60 percent better cotton in our business.
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而現在我們的公司已有 60% 的更環保棉花
06:57
Again, we're going all-in.
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再說一次,我們要全力投注
06:59
By 2015, we'll be 100 percent Better Cotton.
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在 2015 年前 我們要做到 100% 環保棉花
07:02
Take the topic of 100 percent targets, actually.
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就實際來談 100% 目標
07:05
People sometimes think that
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大家有時會想
07:07
100 percent's going to be hard,
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100% 會很難
07:08
and we've had the conversation in the business.
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我們在企業裡也有這樣的對話
07:10
Actually, we found 100 percent is easier to do
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實際上,我們發現 100% 還容易點
07:12
than 90 percent or 50 percent.
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與做 90% 或 50% 相比
07:14
If you have a 90 percent target,
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如果你設目標是 90%
07:15
everyone in the business finds a reason
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企業裡的每一個人都能找到一個理由
07:17
to be in the 10 percent.
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去當那 10%
07:18
When it's 100 percent, it's kind of clear,
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當目標是 100% 時,其實還滿清楚的
07:22
and businesspeople like clarity,
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而企業人喜歡清楚的目標
07:25
because then you just get the job done.
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因為這樣你就只要把工作做好
07:27
So, wood. We know with forestry, it's a choice.
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所以,木料。我們都知道 對林業而言這是個選擇
07:30
You've got illegal logging
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你可以選擇非法砍伐
07:32
and deforestation still on a very large scale,
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目前森林砍伐的規模仍然很大
07:35
or you can have fantastic, responsible forestry
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或者你可以選擇積極負責任地發展林業,
07:37
that we can be proud of.
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讓我們以你為驕傲
07:39
It's a simple choice, so we've worked
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這是簡單的選擇題,所以我們與
07:42
for many years with the Forest Stewardship Council,
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森林管理委員會合作多年
07:44
with literally hundreds of other organizations,
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其實就是與百餘個其他組織合作
07:46
and there's a point here about collaboration.
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而這樣的合作是有意義的
07:49
So hundreds of others, of NGOs,
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所以這百餘個其他單位 由非政府組織
07:51
of forest workers' unions, and of businesses,
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林業工人公會及企業組成
07:53
have helped create the Forest Stewardship Council,
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都參與創立森林管理委員會
07:55
which sets standards for forestry
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這個單位為林業制定標準
07:57
and then checks the forestry's good on the ground.
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然後從基礎面來檢查林業的利益
07:59
Now together, through our supply chain,
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現在我們透過與供應鏈
08:02
with partners, we've managed to certify
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以及企業夥伴合作,我們已經可以認證
08:03
35 million hectares of forestry.
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三千五百萬公頃的森林
08:06
That's about the size of Germany.
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這大約是德國國土的面積
08:09
And we've decided in the next three years,
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而且我們已經決定在未來三年
08:11
we will double the volume of certified material
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我們要倍增認證材料量
08:13
we put through our business.
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給我們的企業使用
08:15
So be decisive on these issues.
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所以在這些議題上要很堅決
08:17
Use your supply chain to drive good.
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用你的供應鏈驅使往好的方向走
08:19
But then it comes to your operations.
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2026
但之後還有你的營運
08:21
Some things are certain, I think.
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有些事情很確定,我想
08:24
We know we'll use electricity in 20 or 30 years' time.
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我們知道我們會 繼續使用電力二三十年
08:27
We know the sun will be shining somewhere,
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我們知道在某處太陽依舊升起
08:30
and the wind will still be blowing in 20 or 30 years' time.
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而風也還是會繼續吹個二三十年
08:33
So why not make our energy out of the sun and the wind?
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所以為什麼不拿 太陽及風力來產生能量呢?
08:36
And why not take control of it ourselves?
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而且為什麼不自己掌控呢?
08:38
So we're going 100 percent renewable.
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所以我們要作百分百可再生能源
08:40
By 2020, we'll produce more renewable energy
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在 2020 之前 我們要生產更多的可再生能源
08:43
than the energy we consume as a business.
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2020
要比我們身為企業所花的能源還多
08:45
For all of our stores, our own factories,
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在我們所有的店面,我們自己的工廠
08:47
our distribution centers,
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我們的配送中心
08:49
we've installed 300,000 solar panels so far,
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我們到目前已安裝了 三十萬個太陽能板
08:51
and we've got 14 wind farms we own and operate
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我們還有 14 個 自有自營的風力發電廠
08:54
in six countries, and we're not done yet.
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分佈在六個國家,而且我們還沒停
08:57
But think of a solar panel.
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但想一下太陽能板
08:59
A solar panel pays for itself in seven or eight years.
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一個太陽能板七八年就能回收成本
09:01
The electricity is free.
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電力免費
09:02
Every time the sun comes out after that,
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之後每次太陽升起
09:04
the electricity is free.
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電力就是免錢的
09:06
So this is a good thing for the CFO,
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2017
所以這對財務長是好事
09:08
not just the sustainability guy.
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不僅是對永續傢伙
09:10
Every business can do things like this.
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每個企業都能做像這樣的事
09:13
But then we've got to look beyond our operations,
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但我們一定要看的比營運長遠
09:16
and I think everybody would agree
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而我想每個人都會同意
09:17
that now business has to take full responsibility
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現行的企業必須負完全的責任
09:20
for the impacts of your supply chain.
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在你的供應鏈所產生的沖擊上
09:22
Many businesses now, fortunately,
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幸運的是現在很多企業
09:24
have codes of conduct and audit their supply chains,
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2007
都有規範標準且稽查他們的供應鏈
09:26
but not every business. Far from it.
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2046
但不是每個企業都如此。還早呢
09:28
And this came in IKEA actually in the '90s.
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而宜家家居其實在 90 年代就開始了
09:31
We found there was a risk
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我們發現
09:33
of child labor in the supply chain,
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2002
在供應鏈上有使用童工的風險
09:35
and people in the business were shocked.
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2510
而公司裡的人都很震驚
09:37
And it was clearly totally unacceptable, so then you have to act.
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這很清楚是完全不能接受的事 所以你必須立刻行動
09:40
So a code of conduct was developed,
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所以標準規範被建立起來
09:43
and now we have 80 auditors out in the world
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而現在我們有 80 位稽察員在全世界
09:46
every day making sure all our factories
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每天都在確保我們的工廠
09:48
secure good working conditions
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維持良好作業環境
09:50
and protect human rights
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及保護人權
09:51
and make sure there is no child labor.
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及確保沒有童工
09:54
But it's not just as simple as making sure
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但這不僅是確保
09:56
there's no child labor.
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沒有童工這麼簡單
09:58
You've got to say that's not enough today.
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2200
你必須說今天這樣還不夠
10:00
I think we'd all agree that children
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我想我們都同意就是兒童
10:02
are the most important people in the world
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是世界上最重要的人
10:04
and the most vulnerable.
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也是最脆弱的
10:06
So what can a business do today
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所以今天一個企業可以做什麼
10:08
to actually use your total value chain
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來實際運用你的全面價值鏈
10:10
to support a better quality of life
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以支持更好的生活品質
10:13
and protect child rights?
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及保護兒童權利?
10:14
We've worked with UNICEF and Save the Children
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我們已與聯合國兒童基金會 及救助兒童會
10:17
on developing some new business principles
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合作開發一些新的企業原則
10:19
with children's rights.
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保護兒童權利
10:20
Increasing numbers of businesses
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愈來愈多企業
10:22
are signing up to these,
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簽署加入這個行列
10:24
but actually in a survey, many business leaders
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但事實上在一項調查中<br/>很多企業領導人
10:26
said they thought their business had nothing to do with children.
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都說他們認為他們的公司 與兒童毫無關係
10:29
So what we decided to do was, we will look
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所以我們決定要做的是,我們要去看
10:33
and ask ourselves the tough questions
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及去問我們自己這個棘手的問題
10:34
with partners who know more than us,
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也問比我們更瞭解情況的企業夥伴
10:36
what can we do to go beyond our business
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我們能做什麼能超越企業本身
10:39
to help improve the lives of children?
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來幫助改善兒童的生活?
10:41
We also have a foundation
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1819
我們也有一個基金會
10:43
that's committed to work through partners
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1895
致力與企業夥伴合作
10:45
and help improve the lives and protect the rights
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一同幫助改善一億兒童的生活
10:47
of 100 million children by 2015.
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及保護他們權利,在 2015 前達成
10:50
You know the phrase,
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你們都知道這句話
10:52
you can manage what you measure?
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你可以控制你能衡量的東西。
10:55
Well, you should measure what you care about.
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嗯,你應該衡量什麼是你關心的
11:00
If you're not measuring things,
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1549
如果你不衡量事物
11:01
you don't care and you don't know.
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你就是不關心你也不懂
11:04
So let's take an example, measure the things
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所以讓我們舉個例,衡量
11:06
that are important in your business.
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對你的企業很重要的事物
11:09
Isn't it about time that businesses
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2283
現在難道不就是企業
11:11
were led equally by men and women?
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該由同數量的男女領導的時候?
11:14
(Applause)
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2983
(掌聲)
11:17
So we know for our 17,000 managers across IKEA
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所以我們知道我們在宜家家居裡的 一萬七千名經理人
11:22
that 47 percent are women today,
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2964
現在有 47% 是女人
11:25
but it's not enough, and we want to close the gap
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2396
但這還不夠且我們想要縮小差距
11:27
and follow it all the way through to senior management.
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並在高階管理階級也要縮小差距
11:30
And we do not want to wait another hundred years.
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2846
而且我們不想再等一百年
11:32
So we've launched a women's open network
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2959
所以我們推出婦女的開放人脈網
11:35
this week in IKEA,
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1525
本週起就在宜家家居開始
11:37
and we'll do whatever it takes to lead the change.
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2176
而且我們要竭盡所能來領導此項改變
11:39
So the message here is,
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1415
所以在這裡要傳達的信息是
11:41
measure what you care about and lead the change,
291
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2384
衡量你所關心的並領導改變
11:43
and don't wait a hundred years.
292
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3003
且不要再等一百年
11:46
So we've gone from sustainability
293
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2437
所以我們經歷了永續
11:48
being a nice-to-do to a must-do. It's a must-do.
294
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5236
從可行到必行。這是勢在必行的事
11:54
It's still nice to do, but it's a must-do.
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這仍是可行之事,但這真的勢在必行
11:57
And everybody can do something on this as an individual.
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4935
而每一個人身為個體 都能為此做些什麼
12:02
Be a discerning consumer.
297
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2196
當一個能辨別的消費者
12:04
Vote with your wallets.
298
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1698
以你的錢包來投票
12:06
Search out the companies
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726055
2180
搜尋那些
12:08
that are acting on this.
300
728235
2695
在這方面有所行動的公司
12:10
But also, there are other businesses already acting.
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但同時其他的企業也早已行動
12:13
I mentioned renewable energy.
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2145
我提到的可再生能源
12:16
You go to Google or Lego,
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2318
你去谷歌或樂高
12:18
they're going 100 percent renewable too,
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2260
他們也要做百分百可再生能源
12:20
in the same way that we are.
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就像我們一樣
12:22
On having really good sustainability strategies,
306
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3126
有些公司有非常好的永續策略
12:25
there are companies like Nike, Patagonia,
307
745193
3244
像耐吉、Patagonia 服飾
12:28
Timberland, Marks & Spencer.
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2154
天柏嵐、馬莎百貨
12:30
But I don't think any of those businesses would say
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2158
但我認為這些公司都不會說
12:32
they're perfect. We certainly wouldn't.
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2265
他們完美無缺。我們當然不是
12:35
We'll make mistakes going forward,
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2366
在向前行時我們都會犯錯
12:37
but it's about setting a clear direction, being transparent,
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2517
但這與設訂明確的方向,要透明化
12:39
having a dialogue with the right partners,
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要與對的企業夥伴進行對話
12:41
and choosing to lead on the issues that really count.
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4516
然後在重大事務上做领導人
12:46
So if you're a business leader,
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2799
所以如果你是位企業領導人
12:48
if you're not already weaving sustainability
316
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2955
如果你還未將永續納入
12:51
right into the heart of your business model,
317
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2408
你的企業模式核心
12:54
I'd urge you to do so.
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1891
我敦促你這樣做
12:56
And together, we can help create
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1975
而一同合作,我們可以幫助建立
12:58
a sustainable world,
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一個永續世界
13:00
and, if we get it right,
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而且如果我們做的對
13:02
we can make sustainability
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1489
我們能讓永續
13:03
affordable for the many people,
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1622
成為許多人都能負擔的平價物
13:05
not a luxury for the few.
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1697
而不是少數人的奢侈品
13:07
Thank you.
325
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謝謝
13:08
(Applause)
326
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4811
(掌聲)
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