Eddie Obeng: Smart failure for a fast-changing world

167,296 views ・ 2012-10-15

TED


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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Geoff Chen 審譯者: Yuguo Zhang
00:15
Over the past six months, I've spent my time
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過去六個月來,我大多
00:19
traveling. I think I've done 60,000 miles,
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在旅行。我大概已經走了 60,000 英里
00:22
but without leaving my desk.
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但從未離開我的書桌
00:25
And the reason I can do that is because I'm actually two people.
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我能夠這麼做的原因是,我有兩個分身。
00:28
I look like one person but I'm two people. I'm Eddie who is here,
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我看起來像一個人,但事實上我是兩個人。我是一個在這裡的 Eddie,
00:31
and at the same time, my alter ego is a big green boxy
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但同時,第二個我,是個綠色的方盒,
00:35
avatar nicknamed Cyber Frank.
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我是一個叫做 Cyber Frank 的阿凡達。
00:39
So that's what I spend my time doing. I'd like to start,
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那就是我之前所做的事。如果可以的話,
00:42
if it's possible, with a test, because I do business stuff,
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我想從一個小實驗開始,這是因為我搞的是商業,
00:45
so it's important that we focus on outcomes.
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所以我們應專注於產出結果。
00:48
And then I struggled, because I was thinking to myself,
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但之後我遇到了困難,因為我想:
00:50
"What should I talk? What should I do? It's a TED audience.
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「我應該說什麼好? 我要做什麽啊? 那可是 TED 聽眾啊。
00:53
It's got to be stretching. How am I going to make — ?"
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我一定要盡全力。到底該如何做才好?」
00:55
So I just hope I've got the level of difficulty right.
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所以我僅希望我先搞定困難度。
00:59
So let's just walk our way through this.
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所以讓我們透過這樣的方式。
01:01
Please could you work this through with me? You can shout out the answer if you like.
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你們可以和我一起做嗎? 如果可以,你可以大聲說出來。
01:04
The question is, which of these horizontal lines is longer?
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我的問題是: 這些水平線,哪一條比較長?
01:06
The answer is?
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答案是?
01:07
Audience: The same.Eddie Obeng: The same.
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觀眾: 相同。Eddie Obeng: 相同。
01:10
No, they're not the same. (Laughter)
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不,他們不相同。(笑聲)
01:12
They're not the same. The top one is 10 percent longer than the bottom one.
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他們不一樣。最上方一條比最底部的一條長 10%。
01:16
So why did you tell me they were the same? Do you remember when we were kids at school,
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那為什麼你跟我說它們是相同呢?你還記得當我們小時候在學校時
01:19
about that big, they played the same trick on us?
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他們和我們玩的同樣遊戲嗎?
01:21
It was to teach us parallax. Do you remember?
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那遊戲是爲了教我們視差。你記得嗎?
01:24
And you got, you said, "It's the same!" And you got it wrong.
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然後你瞭解了,你說: 「這是相同的!」你搞錯了。
01:27
You remember? And you learned the answer, and you've carried this answer in your head for 10, 20, 30, 40 years:
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你還記得嗎? 你學到了答案,這答案在你腦海裡待了 10、20、30、40 年:
01:31
The answer is the same. The answer is the same. So when you're asked what the lengths are,
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答案是相同。答案是相同。所以,當你們被問到長度多少時,
01:34
you say they're the same, but they're not the same, because I've changed it.
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你們說它們等長,但它們不一樣長,因為其實我已改變它了。
01:37
And this is what I'm trying to explain has happened to us in the 21st century.
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這就是我試圖解釋發生在我們在 21 世紀的事
01:41
Somebody or something has changed the rules
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某人或某事物已更改了
01:44
about how our world works.
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我們世界的工作法則
01:46
When I'm joking, I try and explain it happened at midnight,
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當我開玩笑時,我試著解釋它是發生在午夜,
01:48
you see, while we were asleep, but it was midnight 15 years ago. Okay?
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你看,它發生在我們都睡著的時候,但是卻是在 15 年前的午夜。OK?
01:52
You didn't notice it? But basically, what they do is,
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你沒有注意到它嗎? 但基本上,他們做的是,
01:55
they switched all the rules round, so that the way to
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他們撤換所有的規則,因此那些成功運作
01:58
successfully run a business, an organization, or even a country,
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商業、 組織、或甚至一個國家的方法
02:01
has been deleted, flipped, and it's a completely new
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都被刪除、翻轉了,它變成全新的了。
02:04
— you think I'm joking, don't you — there's a completely new set of rules in operation. (Laughter)
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— — 你認為我開玩笑,不是嗎 — — 有一套全新的操作規則。(笑聲)
02:08
Did you notice that? I mean, you missed this one.
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你沒有注意到嗎?我的意思是,你錯過了這個。
02:10
You probably — No, you didn't. Okay. (Laughter)
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你可能 — — 不,你沒有。OK。(笑聲)
02:12
My simple idea is that what's happened is,
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我簡單的想法是,真正所發生的是,
02:16
the real 21st century around us isn't so obvious to us,
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我們真正所處的 21 世紀,事實上,對我們來說,並不那麼明顯,
02:20
so instead we spend our time responding rationally
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所以即便我們理性地回應
02:23
to a world which we understand and recognize,
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一個我們理解並承認的世界,
02:26
but which no longer exists.
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但這樣的世界早已不存在了。
02:29
You don't believe me, do you? Okay. (Applause)
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你不相信我,是嗎?好吧。(掌聲)
02:31
So let me take you on a little journey of many of the things I don't understand.
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讓我帶你經歷一個小旅程,一個關於我所不理解的小旅程。
02:36
If you search Amazon for the word "creativity,"
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如果你在在亞馬遜網絡書店搜索「創意」一詞
02:38
you'll discover something like 90,000 books.
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你會發現有有大約九萬本書。
02:41
If you go on Google and you look for "innovation + creativity,"
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如果你去 Google 搜索「創新 + 創意」
02:44
you get 30 million hits. If you add the word "consultants," it doubles to 60 million. (Laughter)
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你會得到三千萬個相關網頁。如果你添加「顧問」一詞,會翻到六千萬。(笑聲)
02:48
Are you with me? And yet, statistically, what you discover
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有跟上我嗎? 但,根據統計,你會發現
02:51
is that about one in 100,000 ideas is found making money
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只有十萬個想法中的一個可以賺到錢,
02:54
or delivering benefits two years after its inception.
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或在成立兩年後獲利。
02:57
It makes no sense. Companies make their expensive executives
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它毫無意義。企業動用昂貴的經理人
03:00
spend ages carefully preparing forecasts and budgets
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花一堆時間精心準備預測和預算,
03:03
which are obsolete or need changing before they can be published.
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而這些預測和預算在出版前就已經過時或需要更改。
03:07
How is that possible? If you look at the visions we have,
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怎麼會這樣呢? 如果你看看我們擁有的遠見,
03:11
the visions of how we're going to change the world,
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看看我們想要改變世界的看法,
03:12
the key thing is implementation. We have the vision.
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最關鍵的是執行力。我們有遠見,
03:15
We've got to make it happen.
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我們得讓它發生。
03:16
We've spent decades professionalizing implementation.
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我們花了幾十年把執行弄得專業化,
03:19
People are supposed to be good at making stuff happen.
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所以人們應該擅長讓這些事發生才對,
03:22
However, if I use as an example a family of five
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但,如果我用一個五口之家作為範例,
03:27
going on holiday, if you can imagine this,
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這家去度假,想像一下,
03:29
all the way from London all the way across to Hong Kong,
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從倫敦用所有的方式抵達香港,
03:34
what I want you to think about is their budget is only 3,000 pounds of expenses.
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我要你們思考的是,他們只有三千英鎊的預算;
03:38
What actually happens is, if I compare this to the average
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然而,實際發生的是,如果我把這個計劃
03:41
real project, average real successful project,
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和一般來說真正成功的計劃作比較,
03:47
the family actually end up in Makassar, South Sulawesi,
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這一家人,事實上,最終會去 Makassar (印尼南蘇拉威西省) 度假
03:51
at a cost of 4,000 pounds,
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最後花費四千英鎊,
03:54
whilst leaving two of the children behind. (Laughter)
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同時丟下兩個孩子不管。(笑聲)
03:57
What I'm trying to explain to you is, there are things which don't make sense to us.
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我試圖向你解釋的是,其實,有些事不對勁。
04:01
It gets even worse than that. Let me just walk you through this one.
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它甚至會更糟,讓我說說另一個:
04:05
This is a quote, and I'll just pick words out of it.
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這是一段引述,我會從它裡頭挑出詞彙。
04:08
It says -- I'll put on the voice -- "In summary, your Majesty,
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這是這麼說的 — — 讓我換個語氣— —「總之,女王陛下
04:11
the failure to foresee the timing, extent and severity
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未能預見這場危機的時間、 範圍、和嚴重性的原因
04:15
of the crisis was due to the lack of creativity
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是由於缺乏創造力
04:18
and the number of bright minds," or something like that.
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和一些聰穎的頭腦」或其他什麽類似的東西。
04:22
This was a group of eminent economists apologizing to the Queen of England
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這是一群知名經濟學家向英國女王的致歉詞
04:26
when she asked the question,
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當她問:
04:28
"Why did no one tell us that the crisis was coming?" (Laughter)
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「為什麼之前沒人告訴我們這場危機會來?」(笑聲)
04:31
I'll never get my knighthood. I'll never get my knighthood. (Laughter)
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我再也得不到我的爵位了,我再也得不到我的爵位了。(笑聲)
04:34
That's not the important point. The thing you have to remember is,
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這不是重點。你們要記住的是,
04:36
these are eminent economists, some of the smartest people
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這些都是知名的經濟學家。全球最聰明的經濟學家。
04:40
on the planet. Do you see the challenge? (Laughter)
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你們看到挑戰了嗎?(笑聲)
04:43
It's scary. My friend and mentor, Tim Brown of IDEO,
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這很可怕。我的朋友和導師,IDEO 的 Tim Brown
04:48
he explains that design must get big, and he's right.
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他解釋說設計要大,他是對的。
04:52
He wisely explains this to us. He says design thinking
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他聰明地向我們解釋這個。他說,設計思維
04:54
must tackle big systems for the challenges we have.
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必須處理大系統為我們帶來的挑戰。
04:57
He's absolutely right.
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他是絕對正確的。
04:59
And then I ask myself, "Why was it ever small?"
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然後我問自己:「那為什麼是以往它都是小的?」
05:02
Isn't it weird? You know, if collaboration is so cool,
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這難道不奇怪嗎? 你知道,如果合作是很酷的事,
05:06
is cross-functional working is so amazing,
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如果跨領域工作是很棒的事,
05:08
why did we build these huge hierarchies? What's going on?
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那為什麼我們蓋了這些巨大的等級結構? 這是怎麼回事?
05:14
You see, I think what's happened, perhaps, is that
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你看,我認為這或許是
05:18
we've not noticed that change I described earlier.
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我們沒有注意到我之前所說的改變。
05:22
What we do know is that the world has accelerated.
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我們的確知道什麼加速了世界的運轉,
05:25
Cyberspace moves everything at the speed of light.
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網路空間讓一切以光速移動,
05:27
Technology accelerates things exponentially.
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科技讓一切以指數的速度增長,
05:30
So if this is now, and that's the past,
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因此,如果這是現在,而那是過去,
05:32
and we start thinking about change, you know,
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我們會開始思考改變,你知道,
05:33
all governments are seeking change, you're here seeking change,
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所有各國的政府都正在尋求改變,你們也在這裡尋求改變,
05:36
everybody's after change, it's really cool. (Laughter)
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每個人都在追求改變,這真的好酷。(笑聲)
05:38
So what happens is, we get this wonderful whooshing acceleration and change.
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所以情況是,我們得到這些絕妙又風馳電掣的改變,
05:43
The speed is accelerating. That's not the only thing.
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速度正在加快,但這不是唯一的發生的事,
05:47
At the same time, as we've done that, we've done something really weird.
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同時,就像我們已經做的,我們已做了一些很奇怪的事情。
05:50
We've doubled the population in 40 years,
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我們在 40 年內使人口翻了兩倍,
05:52
put half of them in cities, then connected them all up so they can interact.
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將其中一半放在城市裡,接著將他們聯繫在一起,由此一來,他們可以互動。
05:56
The density of the interaction of human beings is amazing.
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人類互動的密度是很驚人的,
05:59
There are charts which show all these movements of information. That density of information is amazing.
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這些圖表顯示所有這些運動的資訊,該資訊的密度是驚人的,
06:04
And then we've done a third thing.
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然後我們成就了第三件事:
06:05
you know, for those of you who have as an office
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你知道,對於那些已有個辦公室
06:07
a little desk underneath the stairs, and you say, well this is my little desk under the stairs,
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在樓梯底有小書桌的人,你說,嗯,這是我樓梯下的小桌,
06:13
no! You are sitting at the headquarters of a global corporation if you're connected to the Internet.
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不!如果你連上網,你就正坐在跨國公司的總部。
06:19
What's happened is, we've changed the scale.
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原因是,我們已經改變了規模。
06:22
Size and scale are no longer the same.
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大小和規模不再相同了。
06:25
And then add to that, every time you tweet,
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然後,每次當你 tweet,
06:28
over a third of your followers follow from a country
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有超過三分之一你的追隨者
06:31
which is not your own.
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不和你是同一個國家。
06:34
Global is the new scale. We know that.
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全球是新的規模,我們都知道這一點。
06:37
And so people say things like, "The world is now a turbulent place." Have you heard them saying things like that?
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所以當人們說: 「世界現在是個紊亂而動盪的地方。」你真有聽到他們這樣說嗎?
06:41
And they use it as a metaphor. Have you come across this?
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他們這麼說是一種比喻。你有碰過這種事嗎?
06:44
And they think it's a metaphor, but this is not a metaphor.
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而且他們認為這是一個比喻,然而這卻不是一種比喻,
06:47
It's reality. As a young engineering student, I remember
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它就是現實。作為一個年輕的工程學生,我記得
06:50
going to a demonstration where they basically,
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我曾經參加一個教學示範,在那裡,基本上
06:54
the demonstrator did something quite intriguing.
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示範者做了一件頗耐人尋味的事,
06:56
What he did was, he got a transparent pipe — have you seen this demonstration before? —
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他所做的是,他得到一個透明的水管— — 你之前見過這種實地示範嗎? —
07:02
he attached it to a tap. So effectively what you had was,
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他把它安裝在一個水龍頭上,所以你過去的情況是
07:05
you had a situation where — I'll try and draw the tap
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你過去的情況是— — 我試著畫水龍頭和水管,
07:08
and the pipe, actually I'll skip the tap. The taps are hard.
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事實上,我想跳過水龍頭。水龍頭好難。
07:11
Okay? So I'll write the word "tap." Is that okay? It's a tap. (Laughter)
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好吧? 所以我寫「水龍頭」。這樣好嗎? 它是自來水。(笑聲)
07:14
Okay, so he attaches it to a transparent pipe, and he turns the water on.
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好,所以他安裝上一個透明的水管,他打開水,
07:18
And he says, do you notice anything? And the water is whooshing down this pipe.
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然後他說,你注意到什麼嗎? 水迅速流下這水管。
07:20
I mean, this is not exciting stuff. Are you with me?
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我的意思是,這不是令人興奮的東西。你有跟上嗎?
07:24
So the water goes up. He turns it back down. Great.
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於是,水會上升,他把它堵回去。很棒。
07:28
And he says, "Anything you notice?" No. Then he sticks a needle into the pipe,
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他說: 「你注意到什麽了嗎?」沒有,他將一針戳近水管
07:31
and he connects this to a container, and he fills
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他把這連到一個容器,接著他用綠色墨水
07:34
the container up with green ink. You with me?
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填滿容器。你有跟上我嗎?
07:37
So guess what happens? A thin green line comes out
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所以你猜接下來會發生什麼情況? 一條細細的綠線出來了,
07:41
as it flows down the pipe. It's not that interesting.
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沿著管道流動,這不是那麼有趣,
07:45
And then he turns the water up a bit, so it starts coming back in. And nothing changes.
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然後他水多調一點,於是它開始回來,並沒有任何變化。
07:49
So he's changing the flow of the water, but it's just a boring green line.
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所以他改變水流,但它是只是條無聊的綠線,
07:53
He adds some more. He adds some more. And then something weird happens.
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他加更多,他加更多,然後奇怪的事情發生了,
07:55
There's this little flicker, and then as he turns it ever so slightly more,
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有個小小的閃爍,之後,當他再打開它多一點,
08:01
the whole of that green line disappears, and instead
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那綠線全部消失了,反而
08:04
there are these little sort of inky dust devils close to the needle.
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有些小小的黑塵靠近針,
08:07
They're called eddies. Not me. And they're violently dispersing the ink
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它們叫做旋渦,不是我,他們正在猛烈地分散墨水,
08:10
so that it actually gets diluted out, and the color's gone.
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所以,它實際上獲得稀釋了,顏色也不見了。
08:14
What's happened in this world of pipe
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在這個世界中的水管中所發生的是,
08:18
is somebody has flipped it. They've changed the rules from laminar to turbulent.
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有人已翻轉它了,它們已經從層流到亂流,改變了規則。
08:22
All the rules are gone. In that environment, instantly,
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所有的規則都沒了。在這樣的環境下,轉瞬間,
08:25
all the possibilities which turbulence brings are available,
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所有亂流帶來的可能性都存在了,
08:29
and it's not the same as laminar.
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而且並不與層流相同。
08:32
And if we didn't have that green ink, you'd never notice.
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如果我們沒有那個綠色的墨水,你永遠不會注意到它。
08:37
And I think this is our challenge, because somebody
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我想這就是我們面臨的挑戰,因為有人
08:41
has actually increased — and it's probably you guys with all your tech and stuff —
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事實上,增加了(這可能是你們這些搞科技的傢伙做的 )
08:45
the speed, the scale and the density of interaction.
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互動的速度、 規模、和密度。
08:49
Now how do we cope and deal with that?
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現在我們應該如何處理它?
08:50
Well, we could just call it turbulence, or we could try and learn.
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嗯,我們可以僅僅把它稱為動盪,或者,我們可以試著學習。
08:54
Yes, learn, but I know you guys grew up in the days when
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是的,學習,但,我知道你們在成長時
08:59
there were actually these things called correct answers,
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有一些實際上被稱為正確答案的東西,
09:02
because of the answer you gave me to the horizontal line puzzle,
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因為你剛才給我的答案,
09:05
and you believe it will last forever.
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你相信它永遠適用。
09:07
So I'll put a little line up here which represents learning,
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所以,我在這裡拿這小線代表學習,
09:10
and that's how we used to do it. We could see things,
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這是我們過去做事的方式。我們能瞭解事物,
09:12
understand them, take the time to put them into practice.
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理解它們,花點時間付諸實行,
09:15
Out here is the world. Now, what's happened to our pace
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在這之外是世界。現在,當世界的速率加快時,
09:19
of learning as the world has accelerated? Well, if you work
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我們學習的速度發生了什麽轉變? 嗯,如果你
09:22
for a corporation, you'll discover it's quite difficult to work
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為一間公司工作,你會發現,要做一件你上司不允許的事
09:24
on stuff which your boss doesn't approve of, isn't in the strategy,
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是很困難的,這不是好策略,
09:27
and anyway, you've got to go through your monthly meetings.
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而且不管怎麼說,你得參加每月的會議,
09:30
If you work in an institution, one day you will get them to make that decision.
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如果你在一個機構裡做事,有一天,你會讓他們作出這一決定。
09:35
And if you work in a market where people believe in cycles,
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如果你在一個市場裡做事,在那裡人們相信週期循環,
09:38
it's even funnier, because you have to wait all the way
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這甚至更有趣,因為你必須要一直等到
09:40
for the cycle to fail before you go, "There's something wrong." You with me?
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週期失敗前,你才會覺得「嘿,有些地方不對勁」你們有跟上嗎?
09:44
So it's likely that the line, in terms of learning, is pretty flat.
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因此,很有可能地,學習的曲線是蠻平的。
09:50
You with me? This point over here, the point at which
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你們懂嗎? 這點在這裡,該點
09:54
the lines cross over, the pace of change
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跨越了改變的速度
09:58
overtakes the pace of learning,
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超越學習的速度
10:01
and for me, that is what I was describing
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對我來說,這就是我剛剛所描述的
10:04
when I was telling you about midnight.
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關於午夜的故事。
10:07
So what does it do to us? Well, it completely transforms what we have to do,
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所以,它和我們有什麽關係? 嗯,它完全撤換了我們應該要做的事、
10:10
many mistakes we make. We solve last year's problems
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以及我們所犯的許多錯誤。我們解決去年的問題,
10:14
without thinking about the future. If you try and think about it,
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但沒有對未來思考。試想,
10:17
the things you're solving now, what problems are they going to bring in the future?
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你現在在解決的事,它在未來會帶來什麽問題?
10:19
If you haven't understood the world you're living in,
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如果你還沒有理解你現在所處的世界,
10:22
it's almost impossible to be absolutely certain that what you're going to deliver fits.
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你幾乎不可能提供絕對肯定的方案。
10:26
I'll give you an example, a quick one. Creativity and ideas,
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我舉一個例子,一個快速的例子: 創意和點子。
10:29
I mentioned that earlier. All the CEOs around me, my clients, they want innovation,
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我剛才說到,我身邊所有的企業經理人和我的客戶都想創新,
10:32
so they seek innovation. They say to people, "Take risks and be creative!"
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所以他們尋求創新,他們跟人說: 「要冒險,要有創意!」
10:35
But unfortunately the words get transformed as they travel through the air.
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可惜說出來後,這些詞彙的意思變了,
10:38
Entering their ears, what they hear is, "Do crazy things and then I'll fire you." Why? (Laughter) Because —
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當這些語詞進到耳裡,人們聽到的是:「去做瘋狂的事,不然我開除你。」為什麼會這樣?(笑聲)因為 — —
10:42
Why? Because in the old world, okay, in the old world,
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為什麼? 因為在舊的世界中,好吧,在舊的世界中,
10:46
over here, getting stuff wrong was unacceptable.
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在這裡,搞錯東西是不能被接受的。
10:49
If you got something wrong, you'd failed. How should you be treated?
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如果你犯錯,你就失敗了。你會被如何處置?
10:51
Well, harshly, because you could have asked somebody who had experience.
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嗯,這很苛刻,因為你本來可以詢問有經驗的人,
10:54
So we learned the answer and we carried this in our heads for 20, 30 years, are you with me?
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所以我們學會答案,然後這 20、30 年來我們腦袋裡硬塞著這些答案。你們懂嗎?
10:59
The answer is, don't do things which are different.
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這個答案是: 不要做不尋常的事。
11:02
And then suddenly we tell them to and it doesn't work.
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然後突然間我們告訴他們這已經不適用了。
11:04
You see, in reality, there are two ways you can fail in our new world.
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你看,在現實中,有兩種方式,你會在我們新的世界中失敗:
11:07
One, you're doing something that you should follow a procedure to, and it's a very difficult thing,
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一、 你做的是一種應當遵循某種程序的事,而它很困難,
11:11
you're sloppy, you get it wrong. How should you be treated? You should probably be fired.
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你馬虎了事,你弄錯了。你會被如何處置? 你可能會被解雇。
11:14
On the other hand, you're doing something new, no one's ever done before,
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另一方面,你做某些新的東西,一些從來沒人做過的事,
11:17
you get it completely wrong. How should you be treated?
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然後你完全搞錯了。你應該被如何對待?
11:19
Well, free pizzas! You should be treated better than the people who succeed.
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嗯,免費比薩!你應該比那些已經成功的人獲得更好的回報。
11:23
It's called smart failure. Why? Because you can't put it on your C.V.
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這叫做聰明的失敗。為什麼? 因為你不能把這放在你履歷上。
11:27
So what I want to leave you, then, is with the explanation
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所以,我想告訴你們的是
11:29
of why I actually traveled 60,000 miles from my desk.
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解釋為什麼我從我的書桌走了 60, 000 英里長的路。
11:33
When I realized the power of this new world,
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當我意識到這個新世界的力量,
11:35
I quit my safe teaching job, and set up a virtual business school,
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我辭去我安穩的教學工作,然後成立一個虛擬的商學院,
11:40
the first in the world, in order to teach people how to make this happen,
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它是世上第一個學院教人如何使這發生,
11:43
and I used some of my learnings about some of the rules which I'd learned on myself.
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我使用了一些從自己身上學到的知識原則,
11:49
If you're interested, worldaftermidnight.com, you'll find out more,
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如果你有興趣,你會在 worldaftermidnight.com (在半夜後的世界) 發掘更多。
11:52
but I've applied them to myself for over a decade,
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但我應用這些原則在自己身上超過十年了,
11:55
and I'm still here, and I still have my house, and the most important thing is,
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我仍然在這,我仍然保有我的房子。最重要的事是,
11:58
I hope I've done enough to inject a little green ink into your lives,
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我希望為你們的生活注入一點綠色墨水
12:04
so that when you go away and you're making your next
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所以,當你離開,你會在將來
12:06
absolutely sensible and rational decision, you'll take some time to think,
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做出絕對合理和理智的決定,你會花一些時間去思考:
12:11
"Hmm, I wonder whether this also makes sense
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「嗯,我想知道是否在午夜後的新世界,
12:14
in our new world after midnight." Thank you very much.
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這一切會有意義。」謝謝。
12:17
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
12:24
Thank you, thank you. (Applause)
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謝謝,謝謝。(掌聲)
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