Shekhar Kapur: We are the stories we tell ourselves

翻译人员: HUI YU 校对人员: Tony Yet

So, I was just asked to go and shoot this film called "Elizabeth."

其实，我当时只打算拍《伊丽莎白》。

And we're all talking about this great English icon and saying,

所以我们全都在谈论着这位伟大的英国人物，

"She's a fantastic woman, she does everything.

“她是个了不起的女人。她无所不能。

How are we going to introduce her?"

可是，她该怎样出场？”

So we went around the table with the studio and the producers and the writer,

公司、制片人、编剧谈了又谈，

and they came to me and said, "Shekhar, what do you think?"

然后他们来找我：“谢加，你有什么想法？”

And I said, "I think she's dancing."

“我想她会跳舞。”

And I could see everybody looked at me,

于是在场所有人都看着我，

somebody said, "Bollywood."

“宝来坞。”有人说。

The other said, "How much did we hire him for?"

还有人说：“这家伙花了我们多少钱？”

And the third said, "Let's find another director."

或是：“我们真该换个导演。”

I thought I had better change.

当时我想，我可能确实需要些改变。

So we had a lot of discussion on how to introduce Elizabeth,

于是我们又讨论了很久伊丽莎白的出场。

and I said, "OK, maybe I am too Bollywood.

我说：“可能我确实太过宝来坞。

Maybe Elizabeth, this great icon, dancing?

可是，伊丽莎白，这位伟大的人物，的确也跳舞？“

What are you talking about?"

”你在说什么？！“

So I rethought the whole thing,

于是我不得不再次从头开始。

and then we all came to a consensus.

最后，我们终于达成共识。

And here was the introduction of this

电影中，这位伟大的英国女人，伊丽莎白，

great British icon called "Elizabeth."

是这样出场的：

Leicester: May I join you, my lady?

雷彻思特：”可以和您跳舞吗，我尊贵的夫人？“

Elizabeth: If it please you, sir.

伊丽莎白：”非常乐意，先生。“

(Music)

(音乐)

Shekhar Kapur: So she was dancing.

”所以，最后，她就是跳着舞出场。“

So how many people who saw the film did not get

看过电影，观众们可以感觉

that here was a woman in love,

”嘿，这是个恋爱中的女人。“

that she was completely innocent

她是完完全全纯真的，

and saw great joy in her life, and she was youthful?

趁着年轻，享受人生的快乐。

And how many of you did not get that?

你们应该看到，

That's the power of visual storytelling,

这就是通过图像来讲故事的力量。

that's the power of dance, that's the power of music:

也是音乐和舞蹈的力量。

the power of not knowing.

是”无知“的力量。

When I go out to direct a film,

导演电影时，

every day we prepare too much, we think too much.

我们总是想得太多，准备得太多。

Knowledge becomes a weight upon wisdom.

我们的知识成为负担，使我们失去智慧。

You know, simple words lost

在经验增长的同时，

in the quicksand of experience.

我们却丢失了简单的语言。

So I come up, and I say,

于是我问自己：

"What am I going to do today?" I'm not going to do what I planned to do,

”今天你要做什么？“我不打算再按计划行事，

and I put myself into absolute panic.

我让自己处于绝对的惊恐焦虑中。

It's my one way of getting rid of my mind,

这就是我逃离”理智“的方法。

getting rid of this mind that says,

它总是说：”嘿，

"Hey, you know what you're doing. You know exactly what you're doing.

你知道你在做什么。当了这么多年导演之后，

You're a director, you've done it for years."

你完完全全掌控着一切。“

So I've got to get there

摆脱这个声音后，

and be in complete panic.

我感到的是彻底的惊恐焦虑。

It's a symbolic gesture. I tear up the script,

我撕掉剧本，

I go and I panic myself, I get scared.

陷入惊恐中。我感到害怕。

I'm doing it right now; you can watch me. I'm getting nervous,

正如我现在做的这样。你们可以看出来，我很紧张。

I don't know what to say, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't want to go there.

不知道说什么，不知道做什么，我害怕这样。

And as I go there, of course, my A.D. says,

当我这样时，助理导演说：

"You know what you're going to do, sir." I say, "Of course I do."

”先生，您知道自己在做什么。“我回答：“当然。”

And the studio executives, they would say,

片场的人们会说：

"Hey, look at Shekhar. He's so prepared."

“嘿，看谢加。一看就知已经做足准备。”

And inside I've just been listening to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

其实我刚刚还在听Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan，

because he's chaotic.

只因为他的歌一片混乱。

I'm allowing myself to go into chaos

我就是要自己进入混乱无章的状态。

because out of chaos, I'm hoping some moments of truth will come.

因为只有在混乱之中，我们才能期待真理的到来。

All preparation is preparation.

所谓准备其实也就只是准备。

I don't even know if it's honest.

我甚至不知道它是不是真的存在，

I don't even know if it's truthful.

是不是值得信任。

The truth of it all comes on the moment, organically,

真理只在瞬间降临。

and if you get five great moments

如果在你的电影里，在你的故事里，

of great, organic stuff

你能够有五个这样的瞬间，

in your storytelling, in your film,

可以创作出了不起的东西，

your film, audiences will get it.

你的观众会感觉到。

So I'm looking for those moments, and I'm standing there

当时我就是在寻找这样的瞬间。于是我站在这里，说：

and saying, "I don't know what to say."

“我不知道该说什么。”

So, ultimately, everybody's looking at you,

于是所有人都盯着你，

200 people at seven in the morning

早晨7点，200人盯着你。

who got there at quarter to seven, and you arrived at seven,

他们15分钟前就到了。你是七点到的。

and everybody's saying,

所有人都在问：

"Hey. What's the first thing? What's going to happen?"

“嘿！先做什么？这里发生了什么？”

And you put yourself into a state of panic

而你只是把自己陷入到惊恐焦虑中。

where you don't know, and so you don't know.

那里，你什么都不知道。

And so, because you don't know,

正因为你什么都不知道，

you're praying to the universe because you're praying to the universe

你开始向宇宙祈求，

that something -- I'm going to try and access the universe

你开始试着与宇宙连接，

the way Einstein -- say a prayer --

就是用爱因斯坦当年用的方法。

accessed his equations,

他就是用这方法连接了宇宙，看到了他的方程。

the same source. I'm looking for the same source

于是，我正在向同一个源泉祈求。

because creativity comes from absolutely the same source

因为所有的创造力都来源于那一个地方。

that you meditate somewhere outside yourself,

你必须在你自己本身之外，

outside the universe.

宇宙之外去探求、去冥想。

You're looking for something that comes and hits you.

你期待有一样东西会降临，会打动你。

Until that hits you, you're not going to do the first shot.

而且除非那样东西降临，你都决不会开机。

So what do you do?

现在，你该做什么？

So Cate says, "Shekhar, what do you want me to do?"

凯特问：“谢卡，你想让我做什么？”

And I say, "Cate, what do you want to do?" (Laughter)

我回答：“凯特，你想要做什么？

"You're a great actor, and I like to give to my actors --

你是个了不起的演员。我想让你自己发挥。

why don't you show me what you want to do?"

所以，你为什么不给我看看你想怎么演。”

(Laughter)

（笑）

What am I doing? I'm trying to buy time.

我在做什么？

I'm trying to buy time.

我只是努力争取时间。

So the first thing about storytelling that I learned,

所以，关于讲故事，我学到的第一点，

and I follow all the time is: Panic.

并且一直坚持的，就是惊恐焦虑。

Panic is the great access of creativity

那是创造力的伟大源泉

because that's the only way to get rid of your mind.

因为只有这样我才能摆脱“理智”。

Get rid of your mind.

摆脱“理智”吧。

Get out of it, get it out.

逃离它，忘掉它。

And let's go to the universe because

去向宇宙祈求，

there's something out there that is more

因为那里的一些东西

truthful than your mind,

要比你的”理智“更加可信，

that is more truthful than your universe.

比你自己的”宇宙“要更加可信。

[unclear], you said that yesterday. I'm just repeating it

您昨天说过。我只是重复，

because that's what I follow constantly

因为那就是我一直所做的。

to find the shunyata somewhere, the emptiness.

去寻找”空“。

Out of the emptiness comes a moment of creativity.

只有在”空“里，才能寻求到创意的瞬间。

So that's what I do.

那就是我一直做的。

When I was a kid -- I was about eight years old.

当我还是个8岁的孩子时，

You remember how India was. There was no pollution.

你知道那时候的印度，没有污染。

In Delhi, we used to live -- we used to call it a chhat or the khota.

那时我们住在德里，我们当时叫它Khota。

Khota's now become a bad word. It means their terrace --

Khota现在变成一个不好的词了，意思是“他们的地盘”

and we used to sleep out at night.

晚上我们会睡在外面。

At school I was being just taught about physics,

我刚开始在学校学习物理，

and I was told that

我学到

if there is something that exists,

如果一样东西存在，

then it is measurable.

它就是可测量的。

If it is not measurable,

如果一样东西不可测量，

it does not exist.

它就不存在。

And at night I would lie out, looking at the unpolluted sky,

晚上我就在德里当时纯净的夜空下躺着，

as Delhi used to be at that time when I was a kid,

我还是个孩子，

and I used to stare at the universe and say,

我看着整个宇宙，说：

"How far does this universe go?"

”宇宙将存在多久？“

My father was a doctor.

我的父亲是个医生。

And I would think, "Daddy, how far does the universe go?"

我会问：”爸爸，宇宙将存在多久？“

And he said, "Son, it goes on forever."

他回答：”永无止境。“

So I said, "Please measure forever

”那你告诉我怎么度量永久啊！

because in school they're teaching me

学校的老师说

that if I cannot measure it, it does not exist.

如果某东西你不能测量，它就不存在。

It doesn't come into my frame of reference."

不存在我的参照系里。”

So, how far does eternity go?

所以，什么是永恒？

What does forever mean?

永远是什么意思？

And I would lie there crying at night

那些晚上，我躺着哭泣，

because my imagination could not touch creativity.

因为我的想象力不能触及到创造力。

So what did I do?

我该怎么做？

At that time, at the tender age of seven,

于是在那时，在七岁那年，

I created a story.

我编了个故事。

What was my story?

不知为什么，

And I don't know why, but I remember the story.

到现在我还记得那个故事。

There was a woodcutter

有一个伐木工

who's about to take his ax and chop a piece of wood,

拿起他的斧子准备砍一块木头。

and the whole galaxy is one atom of that ax.

他的斧子很大。整个宇宙不过是其中一粒原子。

And when that ax hits that piece of wood,

当他的斧子击打到那片木头，

that's when everything will destroy

万事万物都消亡。

and the Big Bang will happen again.

大爆炸将再次发生。

But all before that there was a woodcutter.

在我们的宇宙之前，只有一个伐木工。

And then when I would run out of that story,

然后我会跳出这个故事，

I would imagine that woodcutter's universe

去想象那个伐木工的宇宙。

is one atom in the ax of another woodcutter.

它只是另一个伐木工斧子的一个原子。

So every time, I could tell my story again and again

所以每次，我都可以不断的讲述我的故事，

and get over this problem,

以为解决了我的问题。

and so I got over the problem.

所以我就这样解决了困惑。

How did I do it? Tell a story.

可我是怎么做到的？讲故事。

So what is a story?

那么，什么是故事？

A story is our -- all of us --

故事就是一切，是我们所有人。

we are the stories we tell ourselves.

我们都只是我们讲给自己的故事。

In this universe, and this existence,

在这个宇宙里，在这种存在里，

where we live with this duality

我们过着双重的生活

of whether we exist or not

我们究竟存在与否？

and who are we,

我们究竟是谁？

the stories we tell ourselves are the stories

故事，我们讲给自己的故事

that define the potentialities

决定了

of our existence.

我们存在的可能性。

We are the stories we tell ourselves.

我们只是我们告诉自己的故事。

So that's as wide as we look at stories.

宇宙万物也只和我们的故事一样宽广。

A story is the relationship

你是谁，你能成为谁，

that you develop between who you are,

和我们这个无穷的宇宙的关系，

or who you potentially are,

就在我们的故事里。

and the infinite world, and that's our mythology.

那就是我们的神话。

We tell our stories,

我们讲故事。

and a person without a story does not exist.

没有故事的人是不存在的。

So Einstein told a story

爱因斯坦讲了个故事。

and followed his stories and came up with theories

在故事里他提出了他的理论，

and came up with theories and then came up with his equations.

在理论里提出了他的方程。

Alexander had a story that his mother used to tell him,

亚历山大的母亲告诉他一个故事，

and he went out to conquer the world.

他于是征服了世界。

We all, everybody, has a story that they follow.

我们所有人，每一个人，都跟随着他的故事。

We tell ourselves stories.

我们给自己讲故事。

So, I will go further, and I say,

更进一步，我说

"I tell a story, and therefore I exist."

我讲故事，所以我存在。

I exist because there are stories,

因为那些故事，所以我存在此处。

and if there are no stories, we don't exist.

如果没有故事，那么我们都将消失。

We create stories to define our existence.

我们的故事决定了我们的存在。

If we do not create the stories,

如果我们停止讲故事，

we probably go mad.

我们可能会疯掉。

I don't know; I'm not sure, but that's what I've done all the time.

我不知道。但我一直就是这么做的。

Now, a film.

现在我们讲讲电影。

A film tells a story.

电影讲故事。

I often wonder when I make a film -- I'm thinking of making a film of the Buddha --

我常常想，我在拍一部佛的电影，

and I often wonder: If Buddha had all the elements

我会想：如果佛拥有和导演一样的

that are given to a director --

那些器材。

if he had music, if he had visuals, if he had a video camera --

他有音乐，他有特效，他有摄影机，

would we get Buddhism better?

我们会不会有更好的佛教？

But that puts some kind of burden on me.

但这个成为了我的某种负担。

I have to tell a story

我必须以一种更加明确的方式

in a much more elaborate way,

来讲述这个故事。

but I have the potential.

但我看到了那种可能性。

It's called subtext.

那就是“言外之意”。

When I first went to Hollywood, they said --

在我刚到好莱坞时，人们和我说——

I used to talk about subtext, and my agent came to me,

我当时和人们谈论“言外之意”，于是我的代理人对我说，

"Would you kindly not talk about subtext?"

“请不要再谈论‘言外之意’了。””

And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because nobody is going to give you a film

我问：“为什么？”他说：“因为如果你再谈论它，

if you talk about subtext.

没有人会给你片约。

Just talk about plot

试着只去谈论情节，

and say how wonderful you'll shoot the film,

谈谈你将会把电影拍得多么精彩，

what the visuals will be."

或者谈谈会有什么样的视觉效果。”

So when I look at a film,

所以当我们看一部电影，

here's what we look for:

这些就是我们寻求的，

We look for a story on the plot level,

我们在情节得层面上看那个故事，

then we look for a story

在心理得层面上，

on the psychological level,

看那个故事，

then we look for a story on the political level,

之后我们在政治的层面上看那个故事，

then we look at a story

在传说的层面上

on a mythological level.

看那个故事。

And I look for stories on each level.

我在这所有层面上寻找故事。

Now, it is not necessary

现在的状况是，

that these stories agree with each other.

这些故事不必彼此契合。

What is wonderful is,

在许多时候，故事之间相互矛盾，

at many times, the stories will contradict with each other.

这正是精彩之处。

So when I work with Rahman who's a great musician,

在我和伟大的音乐家Rahman合作时，

I often tell him, "Don't follow what the script already says.

我常常和他说，“不要拘泥于剧本，

Find that which is not.

找到剧本之外的东西。

Find the truth for yourself,

自己寻找真相。

and when you find the truth for yourself,

当你找到它时，

there will be a truth in it, but it may contradict the plot,

它就会出现在你的音乐中。它有可能会和情节不符，

but don't worry about it."

但是不用担心。“

So, the sequel to "Elizabeth," "Golden Age."

所以，在《伊丽莎白》的续集《黄金时代》里，

When I made the sequel to "Elizabeth," here was a story that

故事情节大概如此

the writer was telling:

编剧是这样写的。

A woman who was threatened

一个受到菲利普二世

by Philip II

威胁的女人

and was going to war,

去到战场，

and was going to war, fell in love with Walter Raleigh.

当她到了那里，她和雷利爵士坠入爱河。

Because she fell in love with Walter Raleigh,

因为这段爱情，

she was giving up the reasons she was a queen,

她打算放弃皇位。

and then Walter Raleigh

但那位爵士

fell in love with her lady in waiting,

却爱上她的侍女。

and she had to decide whether she was a queen going to war

于是，她不得不做出选择，她是一个作战的女王，

or she wanted...

或者她只是想要爱情。

Here's the story I was telling:

这一切这样出现在我的电影中。

The gods up there,

天界诸神面前，

there were two people.

站立两个人，

There was Philip II, who was divine

菲利普二世，希望死后进入天界

because he was always praying,

因为在世时他总是不断祈祷。

and there was Elizabeth, who was divine,

还有伊丽莎白，也想成为神，

but not quite divine because she thought she was divine,

但却不可以。虽然她自以为注定会成为神，

but the blood of being mortal flowed in her.

但她的体内流淌着的并不是永生的血液。

But the divine one was unjust,

可是，那位将成为神的却并不是一位正直的人，

so the gods said,

于是诸神说道：

"OK, what we need to do is

“好吧。让我们这么干

help the just one."

让我们帮助那位正直的人。”

And so they helped the just one.

于是他们开始帮助她。

And what they did was, they sent Walter Raleigh down

而他们所做的事就是让雷利爵士来到人间

to physically separate her mortal self

去把她不朽的精神

from her spirit self.

和无法达到永生的肉体分离开来。

And the mortal self was the girl

那个不能永生“她”

that Walter Raleigh was sent,

就是派到雷利爵士那里的那位女侍，

and gradually he separated her

渐渐的，他将她“抽离”

so she was free to be divine.

于是她可以成为神了。

And the two divine people fought,

然后菲利普和伊丽莎白相互斗争，

and the gods were on the side of divinity.

众神站在伊丽莎白那边。

Of course, all the British press got really upset.

当然，电影放映时，英国的媒体都疯了。

They said, "We won the Armada."

后来有人说：“我们赢得了无敌舰队之战。”

But I said, "But the storm won the Armada.

而我说：“是风暴帮助你们赢得了战争。

The gods sent the storm."

而风暴是诸神派遣的。“

So what was I doing?

我在干什么？

I was trying to find a mythic reason

我只是找一个传奇的理由

to make the film.

来制作一部影片。

Of course, when I asked Cate Blanchett, I said, "What's the film about?"

后来我问凯特布兰彻特：”这部电影讲的是什么？“

She said, "The film's about a woman

她说：”它讲的是

coming to terms with growing older."

一个女人的成长故事。”

Psychological.

心理层面。

The writer said "It's about history, plot."

而编剧说它是关于历史、情节。

I said "It's about mythology,

我说它是关于神话传说。

the gods."

众神的故事。

So let me show you a film --

我不妨现在播放电影

a piece from that film --

——只是一些片段——

and how a camera also --

还有镜头是如何运转——

so this is a scene, where in my mind,

这就是当时的场景，我心中的场面，

she was at the depths of mortality.

她正处在死亡的深渊。

She was discovering what mortality actually means,

她发现了死亡的含义，

and if she is at the depths of mortality,

一旦她处在死亡的深渊，

what really happens.

那么死亡真的可能降临。

And she's recognizing the dangers of mortality

当时的她已经看到了死亡的威胁

and why she should break away from mortality.

正因为如此她想要永生。

Remember, in the film, to me,

请记住，在电影中，对于我来说，

both her and her lady in waiting

她和她的侍女一样

were parts of the same body,

都只是一个人的两面

one the mortal self

一个是会死的自我

and one the spirit self.

一个是不朽的精神。

So can we have that second?

那么，我们可能拥有后者么？

(Music)

（音乐）

Elizabeth: Bess?

伊丽莎白：Bess？

Bess?

Bess？

Bess Throckmorton?

Bess Throckmorton?

Bess: Here, my lady.

贝斯：我在这里，我的女王。

Elizabeth: Tell me, is it true?

伊丽莎白：请告诉我，那是真的吗？

Are you with child?

你怀孕了吗？

Are you with child?

你是不是已经怀上了爵士的孩子？

Bess: Yes, my lady.

贝斯：是的，我的女王。

Elizabeth: Traitorous.

伊丽莎白：你背叛了我。

You dare to keep secrets from me?

你竟敢瞒着我？

You ask my permission before you rut,

你必须有我的允许才能生存，

before you breed.

必须有我的允许才能呼吸。

My bitches wear my collars.

你这个荡妇竟还敢待在我身边。

Do you hear me? Do you hear me?

你在听吗？你在听我说话吗？

Walsingham: Majesty. Please, dignity. Mercy.

Walsingham：陛下。请息怒。请显示你的仁慈吧。

Elizabeth: This is no time for mercy, Walsingham.

伊丽莎白：这并不是仁慈的时候，Walsingham。

You go to your traitor brother and leave me to my business.

你去找你那位叛徒兄弟，让我自己决定。

Is it his?

孩子是不是他的？

Tell me. Say it. Is the child his? Is it his?

告诉我！说！孩子是他的吗？

Bess: Yes.

贝斯：是的。

My lady,

我的女王。

it is my husband's child.

这是我丈夫的孩子。

Elizabeth: Bitch! (Cries)

（哭泣声）

Raleigh: Majesty.

雷利：陛下。

This is not the queen I love and serve.

这并不是我热爱并且侍奉的女王。

Elizabeth: This man has seduced a ward of the queen,

伊丽莎白：这个男人引诱了女王的侍女，

and she has married without royal consent.

结婚时甚至都没有取得皇家的许可。

These offenses are punishable by law. Arrest him.

这些行为是违法的！抓住他！

Go.

去！

You no longer have the queen's protection.

你不再受到女王的保护。

Bess: As you wish, Majesty.

贝斯：如你所愿，陛下。

Elizabeth: Get out! Get out! Get out!

伊丽莎白：出去！出去！

Get out.

全都给我出去！

(Music)

（音乐）

Shekhar Kapur: So, what am I trying to do here?

谢加·凯普尔: 好了，我在试图说明什么？

Elizabeth has realized,

伊丽莎白意识到

and she's coming face-to-face

并且决定和她的嫉妒心

with her own sense of jealousy,

和她自己腐朽的一面

her own sense of mortality.

进行面对面的斗争。

What am I doing with the architecture?

我是怎样处理那些建筑的？

The architecture is telling a story.

它们也在讲一个故事。

The architecture is telling a story

建筑们在讲一个故事

about how, even though she's the most powerful woman

作为世界上当时最有权利的女人

in the world at that time,

却仍然有一些其他东西要超过她，在她之上，

there is the other, the architecture's bigger.

比如这些建筑。

The stone is bigger than her because stone is an organic.

这些石块要比她更大，因为石头是没有生命的。

It'll survive her.

这将拯救她。

So it's telling you, to me, stone is part of her destiny.

所以，石头就是她的命运，

Not only that, why is the camera looking down?

不仅如此。为什么摄像头要向下？

The camera's looking down at her because she's in the well.

那是因为她正在井里。

She's in the absolute well

在她自我构筑的

of her own sense of being mortal.

绝对的深井里。

That's where she has to pull herself out

就是从那里，她将自己

from the depths of mortality,

从死亡的深渊中挣脱出来，

come in, release her spirit.

她进入那里，解放了她的精神。

And that's the moment where, in my mind,

在我心里，在那个瞬间，

both Elizabeth and Bess are the same person.

伊丽莎白和贝斯仍然是一体的。

But that's the moment

但在那个瞬间，

she's surgically removing herself from that.

她将贝斯从体内抽离。

So the film is operating on

因此在那个场景里，

many many levels in that scene.

电影正在许多许多层面上同时推进。

And how we tell stories

我们就是这样讲故事，

visually, with music, with actors,

视觉效果，音乐，演员，

and at each level it's a different sense

在每一个层面上，都有一个不同的故事

and sometimes contradictory to each other.

有时甚至会相互矛盾。

So how do I start all this?

我是如何开始这一切的？

What's the process of telling a story?

讲故事的过程是怎样的？

About ten years ago,

大约十年前，

I heard this little thing from a politician,

我从一个政治家那里听到了一件小事，

not a politician that was very well respected in India.

他并不是一位广受尊敬的政治家。

And he said that these people in the cities,

他说那些住在城市里的人，

in one flush, expend as much water

一个人就要用掉

as you people in the rural areas

农村里所有人在两天里

don't get for your family for two days.

都无法得到的水。

That struck a chord, and I said, "That's true."

这引起我的共鸣。我说：“是这样！”

I went to see a friend of mine,

我到马拉巴山区

and he made me wait

去探望一位朋友。

in his apartment in Malabar Hill

他让我在他住所的第20层

on the twentieth floor,

稍等一下。

which is a really, really upmarket area in Mumbai.

那个地区确实是孟买的繁华地段。

And he was having a shower for 20 minutes.

他花20分钟洗了个澡。

I got bored and left, and as I drove out,

我感到无聊，于是开车离开。

I drove past the slums of Bombay,

我路过孟买的贫民窟，

as you always do,

就像平常一样，

and I saw lines and lines in the hot midday sun

我看见正午骄阳下一条条由妇女儿童构成的长龙，

of women and children with buckets

他们都拿着水桶，

waiting for a tanker

等着水车

to come and give them water.

来给他们一些水。

And an idea started to develop.

于是我产生一个想法。

So how does that become a story?

这一切是如何成为一个故事的？

I suddenly realized that we are heading towards disaster.

突然间，我意识到，我们正在走向灾难。

So my next film is called "Paani"

于是，我的下一部电影，叫做《巴尼》

which means water.

意思是水。

And now, out of the mythology of that,

现在，源自神话，

I'm starting to create a world.

我开始构建一个世界。

What kind of world do I create,

我构建了一个什么样的世界？

and where does the idea, the design of that come?

它的形象是怎样产生的？

So, in my mind, in the future,

在我的心里，

they started to build flyovers.

未来的人们开始建筑立交桥。

You understand flyovers? Yeah?

你们知道立交桥？好的。

They started to build flyovers

他们开始建筑立交桥

to get from A to B faster,

希望更快的从A到达B。

but they effectively went from one area of relative wealth

他们希望高效地从一个相对富裕地区

to another area of relative wealth.

去到另一个相对富裕地区。

And then what they did was

之后他们所做是这样。

they created a city above the flyovers.

他们在立交桥上建筑了一个城市。

And the rich people moved to the upper city

有钱人都住到这个上层城市去

and left the poorer people in the lower cities,

把穷人们留在下层。

about 10 to 12 percent of the people

只有10％到12％的人

have moved to the upper city.

可以搬到上层。

Now, where does this upper city and lower city come?

这上下两层的城市是那里来的？

There's a mythology in India about --

那来源于印度的一个传说——

where they say, and I'll say it in Hindi,

他们是这么说的，我要用印度语说，

[Hindi]

（印度语）

Right. What does that mean?

好了。这是什么意思？

It says that the rich are always sitting on the shoulders

我说的是，有钱人总是坐在别人的肩上

and survive on the shoulders of the poor.

在穷人的肩上生存。

So, from that mythology, the upper city and lower city come.

就是这样，从传说中，产生了上下层城市的点子。

So the design has a story.

这个设计是有原因的。

And now, what happens is that the people of the upper city,

就这样，住在上层的有钱人，

they suck up all the water.

他们把所有的水吸吮上去。

Remember the word I said, suck up.

记住我的用词，吸吮。

They suck up all the water, keep to themselves,

他们吸吮了所有的水，留在自己身边。

and they drip feed the lower city.

他们只把水滴给下层的人。

And if there's any revolution, they cut off the water.

如果有革命，他们就索性切断水源。

And, because democracy still exists,

而且，因为仍然有“民主”，

there's a democratic way in which you say

这就是民主，

"Well, if you give us what [we want], we'll give you water."

你们听话，我们给你们水。

So, okay my time is up.

哦，我的时间到了。

But I can go on about telling you

我本打算继续向你们介绍

how we evolve stories,

我是如何发展我的故事的，

and how stories effectively are who we are

还有我们的故事为什么就是我们本身

and how these get translated into the particular discipline

还有如何把这些原则用于不同的方面。

that I am in, which is film.

我的就是电影。

But ultimately, what is a story? It's a contradiction.

可是，说到底，什么故事？它只是一个矛盾。

Everything's a contradiction.

万物皆为矛盾。

The universe is a contradiction.

宇宙是矛盾。

And all of us are constantly looking for harmony.

可是我们所有人，自始至终，都在寻找和谐。

When you get up, the night and day is a contradiction.

当你起床时，看到日与夜的矛盾。

But you get up at 4 a.m.

可如果你在凌晨4点起床，

That first blush of blue is where the night and day

那第一抹蔚蓝，是日与夜正在向彼此

are trying to find harmony with each other.

寻求和谐。

Harmony is the notes that Mozart didn't give you,

莫扎特的曲调并没有给你和谐。

but somehow the contradiction of his notes suggest that.

但他音符中的矛盾却在暗示着和谐。

All contradictions of his notes suggest the harmony.

他以矛盾之声表现和谐。

It's the effect of looking for harmony

在诗人心中，这就是从矛盾

in the contradiction that exists in a poet's mind,

寻找和谐的方法。

a contradiction that exists in a storyteller's mind.

这也是一个讲故事者从矛盾中寻找和谐的方法。

In a storyteller's mind, it's a contradiction of moralities.

在故事中，那时死亡与不朽的矛盾。

In a poet's mind, it's a conflict of words,

在诗人心中，那是语词的冲突。

in the universe's mind, between day and night.

在宇宙心中，它是日夜的交替。

In the mind of a man and a woman,

在男人与女人之间，

we're looking constantly at

我们总是看到，

the contradiction between male and female,

男女之间的不和。

we're looking for harmony within each other.

但我们也从彼此处寻求和谐。

The whole idea of contradiction,

这一切都是关于矛盾。

but the acceptance of contradiction

接受矛盾才能讲出故事，

is the telling of a story, not the resolution.

而并不是要去消解这矛盾。

The problem with a lot of the storytelling in Hollywood

好莱坞的故事的问题，

and many films, and as [unclear] was saying in his,

同时也是许多电影的问题，正如［不清］在他的演讲中所说，

that we try to resolve the contradiction.

就是我们总是试图解决矛盾。

Harmony is not resolution.

和谐并不是解答。

Harmony is the suggestion of a thing

和谐是一件

that is much larger than resolution.

远比解决矛盾更大的多的事。

Harmony is the suggestion of something

和谐是一件

that is embracing and universal

包容万物

and of eternity and of the moment.

包容永恒与瞬间的事物。

Resolution is something that is far more limited.

而解决矛盾却是有限的。

It is finite; harmony is infinite.

和谐是无限的。

So that storytelling, like all other contradictions in the universe,

所以，讲故事，就和宇宙中一切矛盾一样，

is looking for harmony and infinity

是在死亡中探求和谐与无穷

in moral resolutions, resolving one, but letting another go,

解决一方面，放弃另一方面，

letting another go and creating a question that is really important.

放弃一方面，提出一个真正关键的问题。

Thank you very much.

谢谢各位。

(Applause)

(鼓掌)