Shekhar Kapur: We are the stories we tell ourselves

譯者: Suet Mei Hau 審譯者: Zhu Jie

So, I was just asked to go and shoot this film called "Elizabeth."

所以, 我就被要求去拍攝這電影: 伊莉莎白女王

And we're all talking about this great English icon and saying,

接著, 我們談著這個英國代表性人物, 說著:

"She's a fantastic woman, she does everything.

她真是一個了不起的女人, 她做了許多事

How are we going to introduce her?"

我們應該怎樣去介紹她呢?

So we went around the table with the studio and the producers and the writer,

於是, 我們一群人, 包括編劇, 監製, 圍著拍攝廠的大枱踱步盤算著

and they came to me and said, "Shekhar, what do you think?"

跟著, 他們走過來跟我說: 謝加, 你認為怎樣?

And I said, "I think she's dancing."

我說: 我想她應該在跳舞

And I could see everybody looked at me,

我看到所有人都望著我

somebody said, "Bollywood."

有人說: 寶萊塢的電影人

The other said, "How much did we hire him for?"

另一個人說: 我們出了多少錢請他?

And the third said, "Let's find another director."

第三個說: 不如我們另外找個導演吧

I thought I had better change.

我在想, 也許我應該改變

So we had a lot of discussion on how to introduce Elizabeth,

於是, 我們仍繼續討論怎樣去介紹伊莉莎白

and I said, "OK, maybe I am too Bollywood.

跟著我說, 好吧, 或許我還是太印度式吧

Maybe Elizabeth, this great icon, dancing?

但伊莉莎白, 這個偉大的人物, 或許仍可跳舞吧?

What are you talking about?"

你在說些什麼?

So I rethought the whole thing,

於是, 我再重新思考這件事

and then we all came to a consensus.

最後, 我們全部都達成了協議

And here was the introduction of this

而這就是, 英國偉大的代表性人物,

great British icon called "Elizabeth."

名叫: 伊莉莎白的出場介紹

Leicester: May I join you, my lady?

箂斯特: 我的女士, 我可以跟你一起嗎?

Elizabeth: If it please you, sir.

伊莉莎白:先生, 如果你喜歡的話

(Music)

音樂

Shekhar Kapur: So she was dancing.

謝加. 凱普爾: 於是, 她在跳舞

So how many people who saw the film did not get

有多少人看過這電影, 會感受不到

that here was a woman in love,

這女士墜入愛河

that she was completely innocent

她是如此的純真

and saw great joy in her life, and she was youthful?

讓人看到她生命裡的快樂, 還有她的青春

And how many of you did not get that?

你們有多少人不會看到這些?

That's the power of visual storytelling,

這就是用影像來說故事的力量

that's the power of dance, that's the power of music:

這是舞蹈的力量, 這是音樂的力量

the power of not knowing.

還是, 「不知道」的力量

When I go out to direct a film,

當我開始去導一齣電影

every day we prepare too much, we think too much.

通常我們都會準備得太多, 想得太多

Knowledge becomes a weight upon wisdom.

但知識有時會變成智慧的負擔

You know, simple words lost

你知, 在快速流轉的經驗之中

in the quicksand of experience.

簡單的言詞便會失去

So I come up, and I say,

於是, 我走出來, 我說

"What am I going to do today?" I'm not going to do what I planned to do,

「我今天要做什麼事?」, 我今天不準備做我計劃了的事

and I put myself into absolute panic.

於是, 我把自己放置在一個絕對恐慌的狀態裡

It's my one way of getting rid of my mind,

這是一種掏空自己的方法

getting rid of this mind that says,

掏空自己的意思是

"Hey, you know what you're doing. You know exactly what you're doing.

「喂, 你知道你應該怎做, 你知道很清楚自己該怎做

You're a director, you've done it for years."

你是一個導演, 你做了導演許多年」

So I've got to get there

於是我到了那個空白的狀態

and be in complete panic.

也變成了非常的恐懼

It's a symbolic gesture. I tear up the script,

加上一個很有象徵意義的姿態, 我會撕掉手上的劇本

I go and I panic myself, I get scared.

我繼續, 讓自己變得恐慌。我很驚

I'm doing it right now; you can watch me. I'm getting nervous,

我現在就做著, 你看看我, 我很緊張呢

I don't know what to say, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't want to go there.

我不知道要說什麼, 我不知道我在做什麼, 我不知要到那裡去

And as I go there, of course, my A.D. says,

我到了那裡, 當然, 我的副導演說:

"You know what you're going to do, sir." I say, "Of course I do."

「先生, 你知道自己打算怎樣做.」 我說, 「當然, 我知道」

And the studio executives, they would say,

跟著, 攝影廠的管事人會說

"Hey, look at Shekhar. He's so prepared."

「你看, 謝加, 他是如此的有備而來。」

And inside I've just been listening to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

可是, 在我的裡面, 我聽到一些聲音

because he's chaotic.

因為他現在一片混亂

I'm allowing myself to go into chaos

我容讓我自己走進這種混亂之中

because out of chaos, I'm hoping some moments of truth will come.

因為在混亂中, 我在期待著一些真理的時刻會來臨

All preparation is preparation.

所有的準備就是準備

I don't even know if it's honest.

我甚至不知道這是否誠實

I don't even know if it's truthful.

我也不知道這是否真實

The truth of it all comes on the moment, organically,

真相有時只在那一剎那間出現, 有生命的

and if you get five great moments

如果你在那些偉大的, 有感染力的東西之中

of great, organic stuff

有五個偉大的時刻

in your storytelling, in your film,

在你的故事, 在你的電影裡

your film, audiences will get it.

你的電影觀眾會感受得到它的

So I'm looking for those moments, and I'm standing there

我為了尋找那樣的時刻, 我站在那裡

and saying, "I don't know what to say."

說著 : 『我不知要說什麼。』

So, ultimately, everybody's looking at you,

最後, 每個人都看著你

200 people at seven in the morning

早上七時, 有二百人

who got there at quarter to seven, and you arrived at seven,

在六時四十五分已經到了, 而你在七時出現

and everybody's saying,

每個人都說

"Hey. What's the first thing? What's going to happen?"

「喂, 什麼是第一件要做的事? 跟著有些什麼會發生?」

And you put yourself into a state of panic

而你, 卻把你自己放在那恐慌的處境裡

where you don't know, and so you don't know.

你連自己在那裡也不知道, 所以你不知道

And so, because you don't know,

就是這樣, 因為你不知道

you're praying to the universe because you're praying to the universe

你向天地祈禱, 因為你向天地祈禱,

that something -- I'm going to try and access the universe

這樣的, 我便嘗試走進了天地之中

the way Einstein -- say a prayer --

就好像愛因斯坦那樣的---誠心祈禱

accessed his equations,

去到--- 他的方程式

the same source. I'm looking for the same source

同一個源頭, 我在尋找同一個源頭

because creativity comes from absolutely the same source

因為創造力其實是來自同一個源頭

that you meditate somewhere outside yourself,

那裡, 你好像在自身之外默想

outside the universe.

在天地之外

You're looking for something that comes and hits you.

你在找著一些會來走過來觸動你的東西

Until that hits you, you're not going to do the first shot.

直等到這一刻的觸動, 否則, 你實在不會開始第一個鏡頭

So what do you do?

所以, 你可以做些什麼？

So Cate says, "Shekhar, what do you want me to do?"

就正如凱特所說: 「謝加, 你想我怎樣做?」

And I say, "Cate, what do you want to do?" (Laughter)

跟著我說: 「凱特, 你想我怎樣做?」 (笑聲)

"You're a great actor, and I like to give to my actors --

「你是一個偉大的演員, 我喜歡我的演員能自我發揮

why don't you show me what you want to do?"

為什麼你不展示給我看你想怎樣做」

(Laughter)

笑聲

What am I doing? I'm trying to buy time.

我在做什麼? 其實我想去拖延時間

I'm trying to buy time.

我嘗試去拖延時間

So the first thing about storytelling that I learned,

這是我學懂講故事的第一件事

and I follow all the time is: Panic.

我接下來的時間, 仍是---恐慌

Panic is the great access of creativity

恐慌就是開啟我創作力的鑰匙

because that's the only way to get rid of your mind.

因為這是唯一的方式, 讓你去清空你自己

Get rid of your mind.

清空自己的思想

Get out of it, get it out.

掏空自己, 清淨自己

And let's go to the universe because

讓我們一起走進宇宙的天地, 因為

there's something out there that is more

那裡存著有些比起你的思想

truthful than your mind,

更真實的東西

that is more truthful than your universe.

比起你的宇宙更真實的存在

[unclear], you said that yesterday. I'm just repeating it

你昨天說, 我現在只在覆述

because that's what I follow constantly

因為這是我一直跟隨

to find the shunyata somewhere, the emptiness.

去那在某處的空性, 那虛空的感覺

Out of the emptiness comes a moment of creativity.

那刻的創造力就是存在於虛空之中

So that's what I do.

這就是我的做法

When I was a kid -- I was about eight years old.

當我還是小孩---大約八歲的時候

You remember how India was. There was no pollution.

你也許會想起印度是怎樣的, 那裡沒有汚染

In Delhi, we used to live -- we used to call it a chhat or the khota.

在德里, 我們以前住的地方---- 我們曾經叫它chata 或是khota.

Khota's now become a bad word. It means their terrace --

Khota現在變成了一句壞話, 意思是他們的陽台

and we used to sleep out at night.

我們以前通常會在街上睡覺

At school I was being just taught about physics,

在學校, 我們會學到物理

and I was told that

於是, 我就是被教導

if there is something that exists,

假如有些東西是真實存在的

then it is measurable.

它是可以量度的

If it is not measurable,

假如它是不可以量度的

it does not exist.

它便不是存在的

And at night I would lie out, looking at the unpolluted sky,

那一個晚上, 我睡在沒有汚染的天空下

as Delhi used to be at that time when I was a kid,

以前德里常常是這樣的, 當我還是孩子的時候

and I used to stare at the universe and say,

我想會凝視著宇宙, 然後說

"How far does this universe go?"

「這個宇宙走了多遠?」

My father was a doctor.

我的爸爸是一個醫生

And I would think, "Daddy, how far does the universe go?"

我會問: 「爸爸, 宇宙走了多遠?」

And he said, "Son, it goes on forever."

他說, 「兒子, 宇宙是永遠的走下去的」

So I said, "Please measure forever

我說: 「請量度永遠

because in school they're teaching me

因為學校的老師教我

that if I cannot measure it, it does not exist.

假如我不能够量度它, 它便不是存在的

It doesn't come into my frame of reference."

它便不是在我的理解範圍之內的了」

So, how far does eternity go?

所以, 究竟永恒可以走多遠

What does forever mean?

永遠是什麼的意思

And I would lie there crying at night

於是, 我便會在夜裡躺著哭

because my imagination could not touch creativity.

因為我的想像力不能接觸到那樣的創造力

So what did I do?

我可以做些什麼呢?

At that time, at the tender age of seven,

在那時, 一個幼小的七歲孩子

I created a story.

我創造了一個故事

What was my story?

什麼是我的故事?

And I don't know why, but I remember the story.

我不知道為什麼, 但我記得那故事

There was a woodcutter

那裡有一個樵夫

who's about to take his ax and chop a piece of wood,

他準備去用他的斧刀砍開一塊木頭

and the whole galaxy is one atom of that ax.

整個星球, 就是那樵夫手上斧刀上的一粒原子

And when that ax hits that piece of wood,

而當斧刀砍進木頭的時候

that's when everything will destroy

所有的東西都會被毀滅

and the Big Bang will happen again.

巨大的爆炸便會發生

But all before that there was a woodcutter.

可是回到一切之前, 這只是一個樵夫

And then when I would run out of that story,

接著, 當我走出這故事之外

I would imagine that woodcutter's universe

我想像這樵夫的宇宙

is one atom in the ax of another woodcutter.

也是一粒原子, 其實就是另一個樵夫手持的那斧刀的其中一粒原子

So every time, I could tell my story again and again

所以每一次, 我都可以重覆的去講說我的故事

and get over this problem,

跟著便處理了這個問題

and so I got over the problem.

於是, 我便解決了這問題

How did I do it? Tell a story.

我怎樣做成的? 講故事

So what is a story?

什麼是故事?

A story is our -- all of us --

故事是我們的 --- 所有的我們

we are the stories we tell ourselves.

我們就是說給自己聽的故事

In this universe, and this existence,

在這個宇宙, 在這個存有

where we live with this duality

我們是跟這個二元性共存的

of whether we exist or not

其一是, 我們究竟有沒有存在

and who are we,

以及, 我們是誰

the stories we tell ourselves are the stories

那些我們告訴自己的故事, 是故事

that define the potentialities

當中定義了我們存在的

of our existence.

可能性

We are the stories we tell ourselves.

我們是我們說給自己聽的故事

So that's as wide as we look at stories.

就好像我們看著故事一樣的

A story is the relationship

一個故事是一份關係

that you develop between who you are,

是你跟你是誰所建立的關係

or who you potentially are,

或是你跟你可能是誰之間所建立的關係

and the infinite world, and that's our mythology.

以及那個無限之間的關係, 這就是我的神話

We tell our stories,

我們講述自己的故事

and a person without a story does not exist.

一個沒有故事的人, 是不存在的

So Einstein told a story

所以愛因斯坦講了一個故事

and followed his stories and came up with theories

隨著他的故事, 出現了他的理論

and came up with theories and then came up with his equations.

有了理論, 便有了他的方程式

Alexander had a story that his mother used to tell him,

亞歷山大有一個他媽媽告訴他的故事

and he went out to conquer the world.

所以他走出去統治了全世界

We all, everybody, has a story that they follow.

我們所有人, 每一個人, 都有一個我們跟隨的故事

We tell ourselves stories.

我們告訴自己故事

So, I will go further, and I say,

所以, 接下去, 我會說

"I tell a story, and therefore I exist."

我講一個故事, 所以我存在

I exist because there are stories,

我存在, 因為這裡有故事

and if there are no stories, we don't exist.

如果這裡沒有故事, 我們並不存在

We create stories to define our existence.

我們創造故事去解說自己的存在

If we do not create the stories,

如果我們沒有創造這些故事

we probably go mad.

也許我們會發瘋

I don't know; I'm not sure, but that's what I've done all the time.

我不知道, 我不太肯定, 但我卻常常會做的

Now, a film.

現在, 一齣電影

A film tells a story.

電影講故事

I often wonder when I make a film -- I'm thinking of making a film of the Buddha --

當我拍電影的時候, 我常想弄清楚 --- 我正在想拍一齣有關佛陀的電影

and I often wonder: If Buddha had all the elements

我常常懷疑, 假如佛陀把所有的元素

that are given to a director --

都給了導演

if he had music, if he had visuals, if he had a video camera --

假如他有音樂, 假如他有影像, 假如他有攝影機

would we get Buddhism better?

我們會不會更能領受佛教的教義

But that puts some kind of burden on me.

但這樣想法卻讓我有負擔

I have to tell a story

我要講;一個故事

in a much more elaborate way,

用一種更詳盡的方法

but I have the potential.

但我有這樣的潛質

It's called subtext.

這叫做潛台詞

When I first went to Hollywood, they said --

當我第一次跑到好箂塢, 他們說

I used to talk about subtext, and my agent came to me,

我常說到潛台詞, 我的經理人告訴我

"Would you kindly not talk about subtext?"

你是否可以不再講潛台詞

And I said, "Why?" He said, "Because nobody is going to give you a film

我問: 「為什麼? 」他說:「 因為這裡沒有人會給你一齣電影

if you talk about subtext.

如果你要說潛台詞

Just talk about plot

你就說有關劇本

and say how wonderful you'll shoot the film,

同時說你會怎樣把電影拍得很好

what the visuals will be."

那些畫面怎樣」

So when I look at a film,

所以當我看一齣電影

here's what we look for:

這就是我們想要看到的東西

We look for a story on the plot level,

我們想看到劇情裡的故事

then we look for a story

接著我們會想看到故事裡

on the psychological level,

的心理層面

then we look for a story on the political level,

我們跟著也想看到故事的政治層面

then we look at a story

然後, 我們又會想看到故事裡

on a mythological level.

神話部份

And I look for stories on each level.

其實我是想看到故事裡的每一個不同層面

Now, it is not necessary

現在, 但故事之間卻不一定必然

that these stories agree with each other.

的會調合起來

What is wonderful is,

最奇妙的是

at many times, the stories will contradict with each other.

在許多的時候, 故事會互相矛盾起來

So when I work with Rahman who's a great musician,

所以, 當我跟偉大的音樂家拉赫曼合作的時候

I often tell him, "Don't follow what the script already says.

我常告訴他: 「不要跟隨著劇本已經說了的部份

Find that which is not.

去找劇本沒有說的部份

Find the truth for yourself,

去找你自己內裡的真實

and when you find the truth for yourself,

當你能够找到你自己的真實

there will be a truth in it, but it may contradict the plot,

這就是一個故事裡的真實, 但它可能會跟劇情違背

but don't worry about it."

但不用擔心」

So, the sequel to "Elizabeth," "Golden Age."

所以, 伊莉莎白的續集 ---黃金歲月

When I made the sequel to "Elizabeth," here was a story that

當我在準備拍伊莉莎白的續集時, 這裡已經有一個

the writer was telling:

編劇寫了的故事

A woman who was threatened

一個被菲臘二世威脅

by Philip II

的女人

and was going to war,

她準備去打仗

and was going to war, fell in love with Walter Raleigh.

就在準備去打扙的時候, 跟雷利墮入了愛河

Because she fell in love with Walter Raleigh,

就是因為她愛上了雷利

she was giving up the reasons she was a queen,

她放棄了當一個女皇的憑藉

and then Walter Raleigh

跟著瓦爾特. 雷利

fell in love with her lady in waiting,

愛上了女王的宮女

and she had to decide whether she was a queen going to war

於是, 她需要決定究竟她需要去準備打仗

or she wanted...

還是去爭取她所愛的

Here's the story I was telling:

這就是我要說的故事

The gods up there,

這裡有上帝

there were two people.

這裡有二個人

There was Philip II, who was divine

菲臘二世, 他是神聖的

because he was always praying,

因為他常常禱告

and there was Elizabeth, who was divine,

這裡也有伊莉莎白, 她也是神聖的

but not quite divine because she thought she was divine,

但也不是很神聖, 因為她以為自己應該神聖

but the blood of being mortal flowed in her.

但是她身上也流著凡人的血

But the divine one was unjust,

這個神聖的人也不是很公義

so the gods said,

所以上帝說

"OK, what we need to do is

「好吧, 我們需要做的是

help the just one."

去幫公義的那個」

And so they helped the just one.

他們去幫那個公義

And what they did was, they sent Walter Raleigh down

他們怎樣做, 他們派遣雷利下到凡間

to physically separate her mortal self

去讓伊莉莎白的凡人的自我

from her spirit self.

從她的靈性的自我, 具體地分裂出來

And the mortal self was the girl

那個凡人的自我就是那女孩

that Walter Raleigh was sent,

雷利被派送下來

and gradually he separated her

後來, 他離開了她

so she was free to be divine.

讓她可以自由的變成神聖

And the two divine people fought,

同時, 那兩個神聖的人打鬥

and the gods were on the side of divinity.

於是, 上帝始於站在神聖的一方

Of course, all the British press got really upset.

當然, 許多英國媒體會感到不滿

They said, "We won the Armada."

他們說, 我們贏了西班牙艦隊

But I said, "But the storm won the Armada.

但我說, 可是風暴卻戰勝了艦隊

The gods sent the storm."

上帝把風暴送下來

So what was I doing?

我可以做些什麼?

I was trying to find a mythic reason

我在嘗試去找一個神話式的原因

to make the film.

去拍這電影

Of course, when I asked Cate Blanchett, I said, "What's the film about?"

當然, 當我去問凱特.布蘭切特的時候, 這電影是關於什麼的?

She said, "The film's about a woman

她說, 這電影是關於一個女人

coming to terms with growing older."

老化過程的故事」

Psychological.

心理學

The writer said "It's about history, plot."

編劇說這電影是關於歷史的 ---- 劇情

I said "It's about mythology,

我會說這是一個神話

the gods."

上帝

So let me show you a film --

所以, 讓我給你看電影

a piece from that film --

的這個片段

and how a camera also --

以及攝影機怎樣同時.....

so this is a scene, where in my mind,

表達在我腦海中的這樣的一個場景,

she was at the depths of mortality.

她是在人性的深處

She was discovering what mortality actually means,

她僈僈的發現人性的真相

and if she is at the depths of mortality,

假如她是在有限的生命深處

what really happens.

有些什麼是在真實的發生著

And she's recognizing the dangers of mortality

她慢慢的發現了死亡的危險

and why she should break away from mortality.

以及她為什麼要逃避死亡

Remember, in the film, to me,

記住, 在電影裡, 對我來說

both her and her lady in waiting

她和那個宮女

were parts of the same body,

其實是同一個人的不同部份

one the mortal self

一個是凡人的自我

and one the spirit self.

一個是靈性的自我

So can we have that second?

那我們可以有這樣的一刻?

(Music)

音樂

Elizabeth: Bess?

貝絲

Bess?

貝絲

Bess Throckmorton?

貝絲 斯羅克莫頓

Bess: Here, my lady.

貝絲: 對, 我在, 我的女王

Elizabeth: Tell me, is it true?

伊莉莎白: 告訴我, 這是不是真的

Are you with child?

你有了孩子嗎?

Are you with child?

你有了孩子嗎?

Bess: Yes, my lady.

貝絲: 是的, 女王

Elizabeth: Traitorous.

伊莉莎白: 你這個叛徒

You dare to keep secrets from me?

你竟然敢對著我說謊

You ask my permission before you rut,

你向我要求批准

before you breed.

在你呼吸之前

My bitches wear my collars.

我的母狗穿了我的頸圈

Do you hear me? Do you hear me?

你聽到我嗎? 你聽到我嗎?

Walsingham: Majesty. Please, dignity. Mercy.

沃辛漢: 女王, 請你, 尊重

Elizabeth: This is no time for mercy, Walsingham.

伊莉莎白: 現在沒有時間講禮貌

You go to your traitor brother and leave me to my business.

你去你的叛徒兄弟那裡, 讓我自己處理我的事

Is it his?

是他嗎?

Tell me. Say it. Is the child his? Is it his?

告訴我, 說, 那個孩子, 是他嗎?

Bess: Yes.

貝絲: 是

My lady,

女王

it is my husband's child.

他是我丈夫的孩子

Elizabeth: Bitch! (Cries)

哭聲

Raleigh: Majesty.

雷利: 女王

This is not the queen I love and serve.

這不是我所愛以及服待的女王

Elizabeth: This man has seduced a ward of the queen,

伊莉莎白:這男子竟然引誘女王的婢女

and she has married without royal consent.

還有, 她結婚沒有得到皇室的認可

These offenses are punishable by law. Arrest him.

這些都是犯法的, 捉他

Go.

去

You no longer have the queen's protection.

你不再會有女王的保護了

Bess: As you wish, Majesty.

貝絲: 女王, 如你所願

Elizabeth: Get out! Get out! Get out!

伊莉莎白: 走, 走

Get out.

走

(Music)

音樂

Shekhar Kapur: So, what am I trying to do here?

謝加. 凱普爾: 所以, 我在這裡想做些什麼?

Elizabeth has realized,

伊莉莎白已經發現

and she's coming face-to-face

以及, 她要面對面的

with her own sense of jealousy,

去接觸她自己的妒忌

her own sense of mortality.

她自己的死亡

What am I doing with the architecture?

我在這些建築當中做了些什麼?

The architecture is telling a story.

那些建築也在說故事

The architecture is telling a story

那些建築也在說故事

about how, even though she's the most powerful woman

在說明, 即使她是當時

in the world at that time,

世上最有權力 的女人

there is the other, the architecture's bigger.

可是仍有其他的, 那些建築比她更大

The stone is bigger than her because stone is an organic.

石頭比她更大因為石頭是死物

It'll survive her.

這拯救了她

So it's telling you, to me, stone is part of her destiny.

這是告訴你, 對我來說, 石頭是她的天命的部份

Not only that, why is the camera looking down?

不單止這樣, 為什麼攝影機的鏡頭會向下望?

The camera's looking down at her because she's in the well.

鏡頭向下望是因為她是在一個井裡

She's in the absolute well

她是在一個絕對

of her own sense of being mortal.

陷於死亡的井

That's where she has to pull herself out

這裡是那個她讓自己

from the depths of mortality,

掙脫死亡的地方

come in, release her spirit.

在那裡, 釋放她的靈魂

And that's the moment where, in my mind,

也是在我腦海中的, 那個時刻

both Elizabeth and Bess are the same person.

伊莉莎白和貝絲都是同一個人

But that's the moment

但在這個時刻

she's surgically removing herself from that.

她好像外科手術一樣的把自己切離

So the film is operating on

所以這電影這場景, 其實

many many levels in that scene.

在很多很多的層面上運作著

And how we tell stories

這就是我們透過

visually, with music, with actors,

影像, 音樂, 透過演員

and at each level it's a different sense

在每一個層面, 不同的觀感在說故事

and sometimes contradictory to each other.

但有時, 這些是會互相矛盾的

So how do I start all this?

為什麼我會這樣開始

What's the process of telling a story?

說故事的過程又是什麼?

About ten years ago,

大概十年前

I heard this little thing from a politician,

我從一個政治家那裡聽到一些小事

not a politician that was very well respected in India.

其實政治家在印度並不是十分受到尊重

And he said that these people in the cities,

他說那些住在城市的人

in one flush, expend as much water

在每一次沖廁, 所用的水

as you people in the rural areas

會讓那些住在鄉間地區的人

don't get for your family for two days.

兩天沒有水用

That struck a chord, and I said, "That's true."

這是真的

I went to see a friend of mine,

我曾經去探望過我一個朋友

and he made me wait

他叫我等一下

in his apartment in Malabar Hill

就在他在馬拉巴山的房子裡

on the twentieth floor,

是在二十樓的

which is a really, really upmarket area in Mumbai.

這真是一個在孟買十分十分高尚的住宅

And he was having a shower for 20 minutes.

他在浴室洗了二十分鐘的澡

I got bored and left, and as I drove out,

我感到悶了, 便離開, 開了車出去

I drove past the slums of Bombay,

我開車經過孟買的貧民窟

as you always do,

就好像你經常做的

and I saw lines and lines in the hot midday sun

我看到烈日當空下一行又一行的

of women and children with buckets

婦女和孩子, 帶著水桶的

waiting for a tanker

在一個水車前排隊

to come and give them water.

為的是去取水

And an idea started to develop.

當時立刻有一個念頭閃過

So how does that become a story?

怎樣去把這個變成一個故事

I suddenly realized that we are heading towards disaster.

我突然之間感到, 我們好像快要遇到災難了

So my next film is called "Paani"

所以我下一部電影名叫「帕亞尼」

which means water.

意思是水

And now, out of the mythology of that,

現在, 在我的神話之中

I'm starting to create a world.

我開始去創造這樣的一個世界

What kind of world do I create,

我在創造怎樣的世界

and where does the idea, the design of that come?

那些點子, 設計從那裡來?

So, in my mind, in the future,

在我的腦海裡, 在未來

they started to build flyovers.

他們開始去建那些天橋

You understand flyovers? Yeah?

你知道天橋嗎? 對?

They started to build flyovers

他們開始去建天橋

to get from A to B faster,

那就從A 去到B 可以快一點

but they effectively went from one area of relative wealth

但他們是從一個相對富有的地方

to another area of relative wealth.

去另一個相對富有的地方

And then what they did was

這就是他們所做的

they created a city above the flyovers.

他們建造了一個在天橋上的城市

And the rich people moved to the upper city

那些有錢的人搬到最上層的城市

and left the poorer people in the lower cities,

讓那些窮人住在下面的城市

about 10 to 12 percent of the people

大約10%到12%的人

have moved to the upper city.

搬到上層的城市

Now, where does this upper city and lower city come?

現在, 那些上層城市和下層城市是在那裡的?

There's a mythology in India about --

這是印度的一個神話

where they say, and I'll say it in Hindi,

他們說, 我用印地文說出來

[Hindi]

(印地文)

Right. What does that mean?

對, 是什麼的意思?

It says that the rich are always sitting on the shoulders

我說, 那些有錢的, 總是坐在, 活在

and survive on the shoulders of the poor.

窮人的肩膊上

So, from that mythology, the upper city and lower city come.

於是, 由這個神話, 上層城市和下層城市

So the design has a story.

就讓這個設計有了故事

And now, what happens is that the people of the upper city,

現在, 那些上層城市的人有什麼事

they suck up all the water.

他們吸乾了所有的水

Remember the word I said, suck up.

記住我說的這個字: 吸乾

They suck up all the water, keep to themselves,

他們把水吸乾了, 留給自己

and they drip feed the lower city.

跟著滴飼給下層城市

And if there's any revolution, they cut off the water.

假如有什麼的革命, 他們就切掉水源

And, because democracy still exists,

同時, 因為民主仍然存在

there's a democratic way in which you say

你會說, 這是一個民主的方法

"Well, if you give us what [we want], we'll give you water."

對, 如果你給我們所要的, 我們會給你水

So, okay my time is up.

啊, 對了, 我的時間够了

But I can go on about telling you

但我仍可以繼續告訴你

how we evolve stories,

我們怎樣衍生故事

and how stories effectively are who we are

以及故事怎樣有效的變成我們是誰

and how these get translated into the particular discipline

以及故事怎樣在不同的專業之中被傳譯

that I am in, which is film.

就好像我, 在電影

But ultimately, what is a story? It's a contradiction.

但最後, 什麼是故事? 這是一個矛盾

Everything's a contradiction.

每一樣東西都是矛盾

The universe is a contradiction.

宇宙是矛盾

And all of us are constantly looking for harmony.

我們所有人都持續地追求和諧

When you get up, the night and day is a contradiction.

當你起來, 日和夜是矛盾

But you get up at 4 a.m.

但當你在早上四時醒來

That first blush of blue is where the night and day

第一抹的藍天就是日和夜

are trying to find harmony with each other.

在尋找大家共存的和諧

Harmony is the notes that Mozart didn't give you,

和諧是莫扎特不會給你的音符

but somehow the contradiction of his notes suggest that.

但有時, 他那些矛盾的音符又會展現和諧

All contradictions of his notes suggest the harmony.

所以他那些矛盾的音符都在展示和諧

It's the effect of looking for harmony

這就是追尋和諧的效果

in the contradiction that exists in a poet's mind,

存在於詩人那些矛盾的意念

a contradiction that exists in a storyteller's mind.

存在於說故事的人的矛盾意念

In a storyteller's mind, it's a contradiction of moralities.

死亡就是創作者意念的相反

In a poet's mind, it's a conflict of words,

詩人的意念, 跟文字其實是一場衝突

in the universe's mind, between day and night.

在宇宙的意念, 在日和夜之間

In the mind of a man and a woman,

在男人和女人的思想之中

we're looking constantly at

男性和女性都在持續

the contradiction between male and female,

發生衝突

we're looking for harmony within each other.

但我們都在追尋大家共存的和諧

The whole idea of contradiction,

整個矛盾的概念

but the acceptance of contradiction

但接納矛盾

is the telling of a story, not the resolution.

是在說一個故事, 不是一個解決的方法

The problem with a lot of the storytelling in Hollywood

在好箂塢, 說故事最大的問題

and many films, and as [unclear] was saying in his,

在許多電影,

that we try to resolve the contradiction.

就是我們嘗試去解決所有的矛盾

Harmony is not resolution.

和諧不是解決

Harmony is the suggestion of a thing

和諧是展現一些

that is much larger than resolution.

比起解決最更大的事

Harmony is the suggestion of something

和諧是展示一些

that is embracing and universal

能够擁抱宇宙

and of eternity and of the moment.

擁抱永恒, 以及那一刻的一些東西

Resolution is something that is far more limited.

解決是一些很有限的東西

It is finite; harmony is infinite.

它是有限的, 和諧是無限的

So that storytelling, like all other contradictions in the universe,

所以講故事, 就好像宇宙裡所有的衝突

is looking for harmony and infinity

都在追尋和諧和無限

in moral resolutions, resolving one, but letting another go,

在世的處理, 解決了一件事, 但放棄了另一件事

letting another go and creating a question that is really important.

放下和創造問題確實是很重要的

Thank you very much.

謝謝大家

(Applause)

(掌聲)