Trevor Aaronson: How this FBI strategy is actually creating US-based terrorists

164,088 views ・ 2015-06-04

TED


请双击下面的英文字幕来播放视频。

翻译人员: Hong Li 校对人员: Yunfan Zhang
00:13
The FBI is responsible for more terrorism plots
0
13283
2221
联邦调查局是在美国的 多起恐怖主义阴谋的
00:15
in the United States
1
15504
1671
幕后黑手,
00:17
than any other organization.
2
17175
2596
数量比其他任何组织都要多。
00:19
More than al Qaeda,
3
19771
1854
比“基地组织”,
00:21
more than al Shabaab,
4
21625
1385
比“索马里青年党”,
00:23
more than the Islamic State,
5
23010
1550
比“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”都多,
00:24
more than all of them combined.
6
24560
2794
甚至比他们加起来都多。
00:27
This isn't likely how you think about the FBI.
7
27354
2657
这跟你们印象中的联邦调查局 大相径庭吧。
00:30
You probably think of FBI agents gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
8
30011
4055
印象中的联邦调查局特工应该 逮捕约翰·迪林杰这样的坏蛋,
00:34
or arresting corrupt politicians.
9
34066
3141
或者将腐败的政客绳之以法。
00:37
After the 9/11 terrorist attacks,
10
37207
1651
在“9·11”恐怖袭击之后,
00:38
the FBI became less concerned
11
38858
1473
联邦调查局无暇顾及
00:40
with gangsters and crooked elected officials.
12
40331
2609
匪徒或者官员中的败类。
00:42
The new target became terrorists,
13
42940
2462
恐怖分子是他们的新目标,
00:45
and the pursuit of terrorists has consumed the FBI.
14
45402
3421
而追捕恐怖分子 让联邦调查局焦头烂额。
00:48
Every year, the Bureau spends 3.3 billion dollars
15
48823
2795
每年,联邦调查局花费33亿美元
00:51
on domestic counterterrorism activities.
16
51618
2604
用于国内反恐。
00:54
Compare than to just 2.6 billion dollars combined for organized crime,
17
54222
3601
相比之下,用于调查有组织犯罪,
00:57
financial fraud, public corruption
18
57823
2176
金融诈骗,官员腐败等
00:59
and all other types of traditional criminal activity.
19
59999
2778
传统犯罪行为的资金 加起来才26亿美元。
01:02
I've spent years pouring through the case files
20
62777
2196
我花了好几年时间研究了
01:04
of terrorism prosecutions in the United States,
21
64973
2832
美国的涉恐案卷,
01:07
and I've come to the conclusion that the FBI
22
67805
2269
我得出一个结论:联邦调查局
更擅长培养恐怖分子, 而不是逮捕他们。
01:10
is much better at creating terrorists than it is at catching terrorists.
23
70074
3840
01:15
In the 14 years since 9/11,
24
75083
2014
“9·11”发生后的14年间,
01:17
you can count about six real terrorist attacks in the United States.
25
77097
3584
美国本土发生了6起恐怖袭击。
01:20
These include the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013,
26
80681
3070
包括2013年的波士顿马拉松爆炸案,
01:23
as well as failed attacks,
27
83751
1289
和其他几起未遂案例,
01:25
such as the time when a man named Faisal Shahzad
28
85040
2465
比如一个叫费萨尔·沙赫扎德的人
01:27
tried to deliver a car bomb to Times Square.
29
87505
2572
计划在时代广场引爆汽车炸弹。
01:30
In those same 14 years,
30
90507
1615
同样在这14年间,
01:32
the Bureau, however, has bragged
31
92122
1632
联邦调查局却不停在吹嘘
01:33
about how it's foiled dozens of terrorism plots.
32
93754
2581
他们挫败了数十起恐怖主义阴谋。
01:36
In all, the FBI has arrested more than 175 people
33
96945
4238
联邦调查局通过激进、 秘密的反恐骗局
01:41
in aggressive, undercover conterterrorism stings.
34
101183
3446
总共逮捕了超过175人。
01:44
These operations, which are usually led by an informant,
35
104629
2838
这些行动,通常由 联邦调查局的线人领导,
01:47
provide the means and opportunity,
36
107467
1826
他们出谋划策,提供机会
01:49
and sometimes even the idea,
37
109293
1932
甚至直接授意,
01:51
for mentally ill and economically desperate people
38
111225
2856
将那些有精神问题和穷困潦倒的人
01:54
to become what we now term terrorists.
39
114081
3210
变成我们现在所谓的恐怖分子。
01:58
After 9/11, the FBI was given an edict:
40
118061
2307
“9·11”之后, 联邦调查局接到的命令是:
02:00
never again.
41
120368
1218
不再发生。
02:01
Never another attack on American soil.
42
121586
3121
不允许恐怖袭击在美国本土再次发生。
02:04
FBI agents were told to find terrorists before they struck.
43
124707
2960
联邦调查局特工奉命将恐怖袭击 消灭在萌芽状态。
02:07
To do this, agents recruited a network of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
44
127667
4840
为完成任务,特工们在全国范围内 招募了超过15000名线人,
02:12
all looking for anyone who might be dangerous.
45
132507
2769
寻找任何可能带来危险的人。
02:15
An informant can earn 100,000 dollars or more
46
135276
2371
上报一件恐怖主义案件,
02:17
for every terrorism case they bring to the FBI.
47
137647
3105
线人能从联邦调查局得到 超过10万美元的酬劳。
02:20
That's right, the FBI is paying mostly criminals and con men
48
140752
3273
你没听错,联邦调查局支付给 这些线人——主要是罪犯和帮派分子——
02:24
six figures to spy on communities in the United States,
49
144025
2901
6位数的酬劳让他们监视美国社群,
02:26
but mostly Muslim American communities.
50
146926
3177
主要是美国的穆斯林社群。
这些线人逮捕 像阿布·哈立德·阿卜杜勒·拉蒂夫
02:30
These informants nab people like Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
51
150103
3174
02:33
and Walli Mujahidh.
52
153277
1871
和瓦利·穆加赫德这样的人。
02:35
Both are mentally ill.
53
155148
1505
他们都患有精神疾病。
02:36
Abdul-Latif had a history of huffing gasoline and attempting suicide.
54
156653
3363
阿卜杜勒·拉蒂夫 曾喝过汽油并试图自杀。
02:40
Mujahidh had schizoaffective disorder,
55
160016
2521
穆加赫德患有精神分裂症,
02:42
he had trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy.
56
162537
3208
无力区分真实和幻想。
02:45
In 2012, the FBI arrested these two men
57
165745
2482
2012年,联邦调查局逮捕了上述两人,
02:48
for conspiring to attack a military recruiting station outside Seattle
58
168227
3812
罪名是密谋袭击 西雅图郊外的一处征兵站,
02:52
with weapons provided, of course, by the FBI.
59
172039
4324
而他们的武器,毫无疑问, 正是联邦调查局提供的。
02:56
The FBI's informant was Robert Childs,
60
176363
2705
这个案子的线人名叫罗伯特·柴尔兹,
02:59
a convicted rapist and child molester
61
179068
1959
有强奸和猥亵儿童的前科,
03:01
who was paid 90,000 dollars for his work on the case.
62
181027
3334
因为这个案子他赚了9万美元。
03:04
This isn't an outlier.
63
184361
1488
这并不是偶然现象。
03:05
In 2009, an FBI informant who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
64
185849
3822
2009年,一名联邦调查局的线人, 曾因犯谋杀罪逃离巴基斯坦,
03:09
led four men in a plot to bomb synagogues in the Bronx.
65
189671
3324
指挥四个人密谋炸毁 (纽约)布朗克斯区的一处犹太教堂。
03:13
The lead defendant was James Cromitie,
66
193575
1951
第一被告名叫詹姆斯·克罗米蒂,
03:15
a broke Walmart employee with a history of mental problems.
67
195526
2950
是一名有精神病史的 沃尔玛破产员工。
03:18
And the informant had offered him 250,000 dollars
68
198476
2725
这名线人给了他25万美元,
03:21
if he participated in that plot.
69
201201
2386
让他参加这次袭击。
03:23
There are many more examples.
70
203587
2645
这样的例子还有很多。
03:26
Today, The Intercept published my new story
71
206232
2118
今天,“拦截”网站发表了我的新文章,
03:28
about a counterterrorism sting in Tampa involving Sami Osmakac,
72
208350
3715
是关于在坦帕的一起反恐阴谋, 当事人叫萨米·奥斯马卡什,
03:32
a young man who was living near Tampa, Florida.
73
212065
3153
他是一名住在佛罗里达州 坦帕市附近的年轻人。
奥斯马卡什同样患有精神分裂症。
03:35
Osmakac also had schizoaffective disorder.
74
215218
2672
03:37
He too was broke,
75
217890
1005
同样穷困潦倒,
03:38
and he had no connections to international terrorist groups.
76
218895
3037
与国际恐怖主义组织毫无关联。
03:41
Nonetheless,
77
221932
841
尽管如此,
03:42
an FBI informant gave him a job, handed him money,
78
222773
3844
联邦调查局的一名线人还是 给了他一份工作,交给他一笔钱,
03:46
introduced him to an undercover agent posing as a terrorist,
79
226617
2821
将他介绍给一名伪装成 恐怖分子的联邦调查局探员,
03:49
and lured him in a plot to bomb an Irish bar.
80
229438
3289
引诱他去炸毁一家爱尔兰酒吧。
03:52
But here's what's interesting:
81
232727
1957
有意思的是:
03:54
The lead undercover agent --
82
234684
1454
领头的卧底特工,
03:56
you can see him in this picture with his face blurred --
83
236138
2638
就是照片里打了马赛克这位,
03:58
would go back to the Tampa field office with his recording equipment on.
84
238776
3511
回到了在坦帕的区办公室, 身上带着录音设备。
04:02
Behind closed doors,
85
242287
1321
私底下,
04:03
FBI agents admitted that what they were doing was farcical.
86
243608
3379
联邦调查局探员承认 自己的所作所为是荒谬的。
04:06
A federal judge doesn't want you to hear about these conversations.
87
246987
3229
一位联邦法官不想公开这些谈话。
04:10
He sealed the transcripts and placed them under a protective order
88
250216
3151
他将谈话记录封存,严加看管,
04:13
in an attempt to prevent someone like me from doing something like this.
89
253367
3417
防止像我这样的人将其公之于众。
04:17
Behind closed doors, the lead agent,
90
257574
2011
私底下,这名领头的探员,
04:19
the squad supervisor,
91
259585
1331
小队队长,
04:20
described their would-be terrorist
92
260916
1635
将这些未来的”恐怖分子“,
04:22
as a "retarded fool who didn't have a pot to piss in."
93
262551
2631
描述为“穷困潦倒的弱智傻瓜”。
04:25
They described his terrorist ambitions
94
265182
1827
将他的恐怖主义目标
04:27
as wishy-washy and a pipe dream scenario.
95
267009
3989
描述为微不足道、白日做梦。
04:30
But that didn't stop the FBI.
96
270998
1758
但联邦调查局没有罢手。
04:32
They provided Sami Osmakac everything he needed.
97
272756
3336
他们为萨米·奥斯马卡什 提供所需的一切。
04:36
They gave him a car bomb, they gave him an AK-47,
98
276092
3712
汽车炸弹,AK-47,
04:39
they helped him make a so-called martyrdom video,
99
279804
2582
帮他录制了一段所谓的“殉难”视频,
04:42
and they even gave him money for a taxi cab
100
282386
2094
甚至给他付了出租车钱,
04:44
so that he could get to where they wanted him to go.
101
284480
2464
送他前往选定的目标地点。
04:48
As they were working the sting,
102
288004
1810
在设计整个圈套的过程中,
04:49
the squad supervisor tells his agents he wanted a Hollywood ending.
103
289814
3513
小队队长告诉探员们, 他想要一个好莱坞(电影)式的结尾。
04:54
And he got a Hollywood ending.
104
294527
1641
结果他如愿以偿了。
04:57
When Sami Osmakac attempted to deliver what he thought
105
297048
2561
当萨米·奥斯马卡什试图将汽车炸弹
04:59
was a car bomb,
106
299609
1296
运送到位时,
05:00
he was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 40 years in prison.
107
300905
3679
他被抓了,判入狱40年。
05:05
Sami Osmakac isn't alone.
108
305604
2619
萨米·奥斯马卡什并不是特例。
05:08
He's one of more than 175 so-called terrorists,
109
308223
2602
他只是这超过175名 所谓的“恐怖分子”中的一员,
05:10
for whom the FBI has created Hollywood endings.
110
310825
2978
联邦调查局给他们 编造了一个好莱坞(电影)式的结尾。
05:15
U.S. government officials call this the War on Terror.
111
315813
2699
美国政府官方所谓的“反恐战争”,
05:18
It's really just theater,
112
318982
1777
其实只是一场戏,
05:20
a national security theater,
113
320759
2330
一场国家安全的大戏,
05:23
with mentally ill men like Sami Osmakac
114
323089
2485
由萨米·奥斯马卡什这样的精神病人,
05:25
unwitting actors in a carefully choreographed production
115
325574
3047
在毫不知情的情况下出演, 而剧本由联邦调查局
05:28
brought to you by the FBI.
116
328621
2208
精心编写,并呈献给大家。
05:30
Thank you.
117
330829
1127
谢谢。
05:31
(Applause)
118
331956
2914
(掌声)
05:41
Tom Rielly: So, those are some pretty strong accusations,
119
341090
3331
汤姆·雷利(TR): 这些指控非常严重,
05:44
pretty strong charges.
120
344421
1517
罪名很大。
05:47
How can you back this up?
121
347098
1613
你有什么依据吗?
05:48
Trevor Aaronson: My research began in 2010
122
348711
2016
特雷弗·阿伦森(TA): 我的研究开始于2010年,
05:50
when I received a grant from the Investigative Reporting Program
123
350727
3068
当时我受邀参加加州大学伯克利分校
05:53
at U.C. Berkeley,
124
353795
935
一个调查报告项目,
05:54
and a research assistant and I
125
354730
1432
我和我的研究助理
05:56
put together a database of all terrorism prosecutions
126
356162
2473
将“9·11”事件发生后十年以来
05:58
at the time during the first decade after 9/11.
127
358635
3003
所有恐怖主义案件的数据进行了汇总。
06:01
And we used the court file to find out whether
128
361651
2807
我们通过研究法院文件
06:04
the defendants had any connections to international terrorist groups,
129
364458
3423
来调查这些案件的被告 是否跟国际恐怖组织有关,
06:07
whether an informant was used,
130
367881
1483
是否有线人牵涉其中,
06:09
and whether the informant played the role of an agent provocateur
131
369364
3142
线人是否扮演了卧底探员的角色,
06:12
by providing the means and opportunity.
132
372506
1867
为他们(被告)出谋划策, 创造机会。
06:14
And we submitted that to the FBI
133
374373
1577
我们将这些材料提交给了联邦调查局
06:15
and we asked them to respond to our database.
134
375950
2114
要求他们作出回应。
06:18
If they believed there were any errors,
135
378064
1957
如果他们发现材料有误,
06:20
we asked them to tell us what they were and we'd go back and check
136
380021
3133
可以指出来,我们会再查证,
但他们从未反驳过我们的任何发现。
06:23
and they never challenged any of our findings.
137
383154
2228
之后,我将这些数据用在杂志文章上,
06:25
Later, I used that data in a magazine article
138
385382
2198
用在我的书里,
06:27
and later in my book,
139
387580
1049
06:28
and on appearances on places like CBS and NPR,
140
388629
2547
哥伦比亚广播公司和国家公共广播电台 也用过这些数据,
06:31
they were offered that opportunity again
141
391176
1907
他们再次获得了反驳的机会,
大可以说,“特雷弗·阿伦森在胡扯。”
06:33
to say, "Trevor Aaronson's findings are wrong."
142
393083
2250
06:35
And they've never come forward and said,
143
395333
1860
但他们从来没有站出来说,
“这些事并不属实。”
06:37
"These are the problems with those findings."
144
397193
2121
所以这些数据 最近被“人权观察”组织
06:39
So the data has since been used by groups like Human Rights Watch
145
399314
3141
06:42
on its recent report on these types of sting operations.
146
402455
2702
用在他们关于此类虚假行动 的调查报告中。
到目前为止,联邦调查局从未正式回应
06:45
And so far, the FBI has never really responded
147
405157
2639
06:47
to these charges that it's really not catching terrorists
148
407796
3226
上述指控:他们逮捕的不是恐怖分子,
06:51
so much as it's catching mentally ill people
149
411022
2145
只是些精神病人
06:53
that it can dress up as terrorists in these types of sting operations.
150
413167
3362
被伪装成恐怖分子, 上演了一出虚假反恐的戏码。
06:57
TR: So The Intercept is that new investigative journalism website,
151
417849
3478
TR:“拦截”是一家新的 进行新闻调查的网站,
07:01
that's cofounded by Glenn Greenwald.
152
421327
1768
由格伦·格林沃尔德等人联合创建。
07:03
Tell us about your article and why there.
153
423095
3579
跟我们讲讲你的文章, 为什么发表在他们网站。
07:06
TA: The Intercept seemed to be the most logical place for this
154
426674
2980
TA:“拦截”是最适合发表的地方,
07:09
because my article is really leveraging the fact that
155
429654
3069
因为我的文章揭露了一个事实,
07:12
a source had leaked to me transcripts of these
156
432723
2485
消息人士提供给我的录音文本
07:15
private FBI conversations that a federal judge had sealed
157
435208
2947
是联邦调查局的私密对话,
07:18
based on the government's claim that their release
158
438155
2401
联邦法官将其封存, 因为政府认为一旦泄露,
07:20
would irreparably damage the U.S. government's
159
440556
2192
将对美国政府的执法战略
07:22
law enforcement strategy.
160
442748
2104
带来无法弥补的损失。
07:24
So a place like The Intercept was set up to protect journalists
161
444852
2979
所以像“拦截”这样的网站就建立起来了, 用来保护记者
07:27
and publish their work
162
447831
1059
并发表他们的文章,
07:28
when they're dealing with very sensitive matters like this.
163
448890
2829
尤其当记者在报道 如此敏感的事件的时候。
07:31
So my story in The Intercept, which was just published today,
164
451719
2899
所以我的文章, 今天刚刚在“拦截”上面刊登,
07:34
tells the story of how Sami Osmakac was set up in this FBI sting
165
454618
3335
讲述了萨米·奥斯马卡什 如何被联邦调查局设计陷害,
07:37
and goes into much greater detail.
166
457953
1680
并挖掘了一些更深的细节。
07:39
In this talk, I could only highlight the things that they said,
167
459633
2964
在本次演讲中,我只强调了 他们所说的部分内容,
07:42
such as calling him a "retarded fool."
168
462597
1837
比如称他为“弱智傻瓜”。
07:44
But it was much more elaborate,
169
464434
1482
但这更是个精心策划的阴谋,
07:45
they went to great lengths to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
170
465916
3096
他们计划周详,为萨米·奥斯马卡什 提供资金,
07:49
which he then used to purchase weapons from the undercover agent.
171
469012
3056
他随后又从卧底探员手中购买武器。
07:52
When he went to trial,
172
472068
1140
当他接受审判时,
07:53
the central piece of evidence was that he paid for these weapons,
173
473208
3131
他购买武器的行为 成为了最关键的证据,
07:56
when in truth, these transcripts show how the FBI orchestrated
174
476339
2921
但这些录音文本揭露了真相, 联邦调查局精心策划,
07:59
someone who was essentially mentally ill and broke
175
479260
2400
为这些精神病人和破产者提供资金,
08:01
to get money to then pay for weapons
176
481660
2219
让他们购买武器,
08:03
that they could then charge him in a conspiracy for.
177
483879
2508
随后再起诉他们意图不轨。
08:06
TR: One final question.
178
486387
2127
TR:最后一个问题。
08:08
Less than 10 days ago,
179
488514
1521
不到十天前,
联邦调查局在布鲁克林逮捕了 一些“伊拉克和沙姆伊斯兰国”的嫌疑人,
08:10
the FBI arrested some potential ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
180
490035
3152
08:13
saying that they might be headed to Syria,
181
493187
3528
称他们可能会前往叙利亚,
08:16
and were those real, or examples of more of the same?
182
496725
2897
这件事是真的吗?还是同样只是演戏。
08:19
TA: Well so far, we only know what's come out in the court file,
183
499622
3014
TA:到目前为止,我们所知 事实都来源于法庭文件,
但在我看来这又是一场戏。
08:22
but they seem to suggest it's another example of the same.
184
502636
3005
这种虚假反恐行动总是紧跟潮流,
08:25
These types of sting operations have moved from flavor to flavor.
185
505641
3182
08:28
So initially it was al Qaeda plots,
186
508823
2168
起初“基地组织”戏份最多,
08:30
and now the Islamic State is the current flavor.
187
510991
2314
现在“伊斯兰国”成了他们的最爱。
这个案子值得注意的是, 被指控的三名男子,
08:33
What's worth noting about that case is that the three men that were charged
188
513305
3569
08:36
only began the plot to go to Syria
189
516874
1850
都是在与联邦调查局的线人接触后,
08:38
after the introduction of the FBI informant,
190
518724
2077
才开始密谋要前往叙利亚,
08:40
and in fact, the FBI informant had helped them with the travel documents
191
520801
3450
而实际上,他们的旅行证件 都是联邦调查局的线人
帮他们办理的。
08:44
that they needed.
192
524251
916
最为搞笑的一个转折就是,
08:45
In kind of a comical turn in that particular case,
193
525167
2617
08:47
one of the defendant's mother had found out
194
527784
2066
其中一名被告的母亲
08:49
that he was interested in going to Syria and had hid his passport.
195
529850
3166
在发现儿子要前往叙利亚后 就把他的护照给藏起来了。
所以即使他能成功抵达机场,
08:53
So it's unclear that even if he had showed up at the airport,
196
533016
2933
恐怕也哪儿都去不了。
08:55
that he ever could have gone anywhere.
197
535949
1828
的确,在美国也许会有人对加入
08:57
So yes, there are people who might be interested in joining the Islamic State
198
537777
3643
“伊斯兰国”感兴趣,
这部分人才是美国政府应该关注的,
09:01
in the United States,
199
541420
1008
09:02
and those are people that the United States government should be looking at
200
542428
3622
看他们是不是有暴力倾向。
而在这件案子中, 就目前所掌握的证据而言,
09:06
to see if they're interested in violence here.
201
546050
2279
正是联邦调查局让这些人
09:08
In this particular case, given the evidence that's so far come out,
202
548329
3180
产生了去叙利亚的想法,
09:11
it suggests the FBI made it possible for these guys
203
551509
2395
09:13
to move along in a plan to go to Syria
204
553904
2080
而之前他们可能连想都没想过。
09:15
when they were never close to that in the first place.
205
555984
2598
TR:非常感谢,很棒的演讲。 TA:谢谢你。
(掌声)
09:18
TR: Thanks a lot, that's amazing. TA: Thank you.
206
558592
2233
09:20
(Applause)
207
560825
791
关于本网站

这个网站将向你介绍对学习英语有用的YouTube视频。你将看到来自世界各地的一流教师教授的英语课程。双击每个视频页面上显示的英文字幕,即可从那里播放视频。字幕会随着视频的播放而同步滚动。如果你有任何意见或要求,请使用此联系表与我们联系。

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7