Trevor Aaronson: How this FBI strategy is actually creating US-based terrorists

164,273 views ・ 2015-06-04

TED


μ•„λž˜ μ˜λ¬Έμžλ§‰μ„ λ”λΈ”ν΄λ¦­ν•˜μ‹œλ©΄ μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.

λ²ˆμ—­: Jihyeon J. Kim κ²€ν† : chang bong jin
00:13
The FBI is responsible for more terrorism plots
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FBIλŠ” λ―Έκ΅­μ—μ„œ μ–΄λŠ 쑰직보닀도 ν…ŒλŸ¬ 음λͺ¨μ— λŒ€ν•œ μ±…μž„μ΄ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:15
in the United States
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00:17
than any other organization.
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00:19
More than al Qaeda,
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μ•Œ 카에닀, μ•Œ 샀λ°₯, IS보닀 λ”ν•˜λ©°
00:21
more than al Shabaab,
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00:23
more than the Islamic State,
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00:24
more than all of them combined.
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이 λͺ¨λ“  것을 ν•©ν•œ 것보닀 λ”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:27
This isn't likely how you think about the FBI.
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μ•„λ§ˆ FBIλ₯Ό μ΄λ ‡κ²ŒλŠ” μƒκ°ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠμœΌμ‹€ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:30
You probably think of FBI agents gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ€ μ•„λ§ˆ μ‘΄ λ”œλ¦°μ €κ°™μ€ 악당을 μ†Œνƒ•ν•˜κ±°λ‚˜
λΆ€νŒ¨ν•œ μ •μΉ˜μΈμ„ μ²΄ν¬ν•˜λŠ” FBI μš”μ›μ„ μƒκ°ν•˜μ‹€ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:34
or arresting corrupt politicians.
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00:37
After the 9/11 terrorist attacks,
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911 ν…ŒλŸ¬μ΄ν›„λ‘œ FBIλŠ” 폭λ ₯λ°°λ‚˜ λΆ€νŒ¨ν•œ μ •μΉ˜μΈμ€
00:38
the FBI became less concerned
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00:40
with gangsters and crooked elected officials.
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λ³„λ‘œ 신경쓰지 μ•Šκ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:42
The new target became terrorists,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ΄ μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ λͺ©ν‘œκ°€ λ˜μ—ˆκ³ 
00:45
and the pursuit of terrorists has consumed the FBI.
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그것을 μΆ”μ ν•˜λŠλΌ FBIκ°€ 온 νž˜μ„ μ†Œμ§„ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:48
Every year, the Bureau spends 3.3 billion dollars
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맀년 FBIλŠ” 33μ–΅λ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό μ¨μ„œ
00:51
on domestic counterterrorism activities.
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κ΅­λ‚΄ λ°˜ν…ŒλŸ¬ ν™œλ™μ„ ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:54
Compare than to just 2.6 billion dollars combined for organized crime,
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26μ–΅ λ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό μ“΄ 것과 비ꡐ해 λ³΄μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.
범죄쑰직, κΈˆμœ΅μ‚¬κΈ°, 곡곡 λΆ€νŒ¨, λͺ¨λ“  ν˜•νƒœμ˜ 전톡적인 범죄 ν–‰μœ„λ₯Ό ν•©ν•œ 것에 λ§μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:57
financial fraud, public corruption
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00:59
and all other types of traditional criminal activity.
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01:02
I've spent years pouring through the case files
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λ―Έκ΅­μ—μ„œ μΌμ–΄λ‚œ ν…ŒλŸ¬ κΈ°μ†Œ 사건듀을 μˆ˜λ…„ λ™μ•ˆ μ‚΄νŽ΄λ³΄μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:04
of terrorism prosecutions in the United States,
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01:07
and I've come to the conclusion that the FBI
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κ·Έλ¦¬κ³ λŠ” FBIκ°€ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ„ μž‘κΈ°λ³΄λ‹€λŠ”
01:10
is much better at creating terrorists than it is at catching terrorists.
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였히렀 λ§Œλ“€μ–΄ λ‚΄κ³  μžˆλ‹€κ³  κ²°λ‘  λ‚΄λ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
911 ν…ŒλŸ¬ 이후 14λ…„κ°„
01:15
In the 14 years since 9/11,
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01:17
you can count about six real terrorist attacks in the United States.
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λ―Έκ΅­μ—μ„œ μΌμ–΄λ‚œ μ‹€μ œ ν…ŒλŸ¬ 곡격은 μ—¬μ„― κ±΄μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:20
These include the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013,
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2013λ…„ λ³΄μŠ€ν„΄ λ§ˆλΌν†€ ν­λ°œμ‚¬κ±΄μ„ ν¬ν•¨ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:23
as well as failed attacks,
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믈둠 μ‹€νŒ¨ν•œ μ‹œλ„κΉŒμ§€ ν¬ν•¨ν•˜λŠ”λ°
01:25
such as the time when a man named Faisal Shahzad
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페이절 μƒ€μžλ“œλΌλŠ” μ‚¬λžŒμ΄
01:27
tried to deliver a car bomb to Times Square.
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νƒ€μž„ κ΄‘μž₯에 μžλ™μ°¨ 폭탄을 μ‹œλ„ν–ˆλ˜ 것 같은 κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:30
In those same 14 years,
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κ·Έ 14λ…„κ°„
01:32
the Bureau, however, has bragged
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FBIλŠ” 수 μ‹­κ±΄μ˜ ν…ŒλŸ¬ κ³„νšμ„ μ €μ§€ν–ˆλ‹€κ³  λ– λ²Œλ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:33
about how it's foiled dozens of terrorism plots.
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01:36
In all, the FBI has arrested more than 175 people
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λ‹€ ν•΄μ„œ FBIλŠ” 175λͺ… 이상 μ²΄ν¬ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:41
in aggressive, undercover conterterrorism stings.
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곡격적인 λ°˜ν…ŒλŸ¬ 잠볡 μž‘μ „μœΌλ‘œ μ΄λ€˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:44
These operations, which are usually led by an informant,
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이 μž‘μ „λ“€μ€ λŒ€κ°œ 정보원에 μ˜ν•΄ μ΄λ£¨μ–΄μ§€λŠ”λ°
01:47
provide the means and opportunity,
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방법과 기회, μ–΄λ–€ λ•Œμ—λŠ” 심지어 아이디어도 μ œκ³΅ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:49
and sometimes even the idea,
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01:51
for mentally ill and economically desperate people
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정신병이 μžˆκ±°λ‚˜ 경제적으둜 νž˜λ“  μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄
01:54
to become what we now term terrorists.
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ν˜„μž¬ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ΄λΌ μ΄λ¦„ν•˜λŠ” 것이 λ˜λ„λ‘ λ§μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:58
After 9/11, the FBI was given an edict:
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911 ν…ŒλŸ¬μ΄ν›„ FBIλŠ” λͺ…령을 λ°›μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:00
never again.
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λ―Έκ΅­ 본토에 λ‹€λ₯Έ 곡격이 μ—†μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:01
Never another attack on American soil.
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02:04
FBI agents were told to find terrorists before they struck.
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FBIμš”μ›λ“€μ€ 곡격이 μžˆκΈ°μ „μ— ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ„ λ¨Όμ € μ°Ύμ•„λ‚΄λΌλŠ” λͺ…령을 λ°›μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:07
To do this, agents recruited a network of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
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μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ ν•˜λ €λ©΄ μ „κ΅­μ μœΌλ‘œ 만5천λͺ…μ˜ 정보원을 λͺ¨μ§‘ν•΄μ„œ
02:12
all looking for anyone who might be dangerous.
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μœ„ν—˜μ„±μ΄ μžˆλŠ” μš”μ£Όμ˜ 인물을 μ°Ύμ•„λ‚΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:15
An informant can earn 100,000 dollars or more
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정보원 ν•œ λͺ…이 FBI에 ν…ŒλŸ¬κ³΅κ²© ν•œ 건을 μ‹ κ³ ν•  λ•Œλ§ˆλ‹€
02:17
for every terrorism case they bring to the FBI.
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10만 λ‹¬λŸ¬λ‚˜ κ·Έ 이상을 벌 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:20
That's right, the FBI is paying mostly criminals and con men
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κ·Έλ ‡μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. FBIκ°€ λ²”μ£„μžλ‚˜ μ‚¬κΈ°κΎΌλ“€μ—κ²Œ
02:24
six figures to spy on communities in the United States,
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λ―Έκ΅­λ‚΄ 지역듀을 μ—Όνƒν•˜λŠ”λ° μ–΅λ‹¨μœ„ μ•‘μˆ˜λ₯Ό μ§€κΈ‰ν•˜κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:26
but mostly Muslim American communities.
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λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ€ λ¬΄μŠ¬λ¦Όκ³„ 미ꡭ인 지역을 μ‚΄ν•λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:30
These informants nab people like Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
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이 정보원듀은 μ•„λΆ€ μΉΌλ¦¬λ“œ μ••λ‘˜-라티프와 μ™ˆλ¦¬ λ¬΄μžνžˆλ“œκ°™μ€ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ λ‚šμ•„μ±•λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:33
and Walli Mujahidh.
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02:35
Both are mentally ill.
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λ‘˜ λ‹€ 정신병이 있죠.
02:36
Abdul-Latif had a history of huffing gasoline and attempting suicide.
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μ••λ‘˜-λΌν‹°ν”„λŠ” 휘발유 ν‘μž…κ³Ό μžμ‚΄ 이λ ₯이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:40
Mujahidh had schizoaffective disorder,
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λ¬΄μžνžˆλ“œλŠ” 정신뢄열증이 μžˆμ–΄μ„œ
02:42
he had trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy.
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ν˜„μ‹€κ³Ό 망상을 κ΅¬λ³„ν•˜μ§€ λͺ»ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:45
In 2012, the FBI arrested these two men
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2012년에 FBIλŠ” 이 λ‘˜μ„ μ²΄ν¬ν–ˆλŠ”λ°
02:48
for conspiring to attack a military recruiting station outside Seattle
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μ‹œμ• ν‹€ 외곽에 μžˆλŠ” κ΅°μ‚¬ν›ˆλ ¨ μ‹œμ„€μ„ 무기λ₯Ό 가지고,
02:52
with weapons provided, of course, by the FBI.
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λ¬Όλ‘  FBIκ°€ μ œκ³΅ν•œ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œμš”, κ³΅κ²©ν•˜λ €λŠ” 음λͺ¨λ₯Ό κΎΈλͺ„λ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:56
The FBI's informant was Robert Childs,
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FBI정보원은 λ‘œλ²„νŠΈ μ± μΌμ¦ˆμ˜€λŠ”λ°
02:59
a convicted rapist and child molester
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κΈ°μ†Œλœ κ°•κ°„λ²”μ΄μž μ•„λ™ν•™λŒ€λ²”μœΌλ‘œ
03:01
who was paid 90,000 dollars for his work on the case.
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고발건으둜 9λ§Œλ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό λ°›μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:04
This isn't an outlier.
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이런 일이 λ“œλ¬Έκ²Œ μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:05
In 2009, an FBI informant who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
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2009년에 μ‚΄μΈν˜μ˜λ‘œ νŒŒν‚€μŠ€νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ 도망간 FBI 정보원은
03:09
led four men in a plot to bomb synagogues in the Bronx.
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브둱크슀 νšŒλ‹Ή 폭탄 κ³„νšμœΌλ‘œ λ„€ λͺ…을 κ³ λ°œν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:13
The lead defendant was James Cromitie,
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μ£Ό 피고인은 μ œμž„μŠ€ ν¬λ‘œλ―Έν‹°λ‘œ
03:15
a broke Walmart employee with a history of mental problems.
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정신병λ ₯이 μžˆλŠ” λ¬΄μΌν‘Όμ˜ μ›”λ§ˆνŠΈ μ§μ›μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:18
And the informant had offered him 250,000 dollars
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정보원이 κ·Έμ—κ²Œ κ³„νšμ— κ°€λ‹΄ν•˜λ©΄
03:21
if he participated in that plot.
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25λ§Œλ‹¬λŸ¬λ₯Ό μ£Όκ² λ‹€κ³  μ œμ˜ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:23
There are many more examples.
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λ‹€λ₯Έ λ§Žμ€ 사둀듀이 더 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:26
Today, The Intercept published my new story
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ν˜„μž¬ μΈν„°μ…‰νŠΈμ—μ„œ 사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œκ°€ μ—°λ£¨λœ νƒνŒŒμ˜ λ°˜ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό ν’μžν•˜λŠ”
03:28
about a counterterrorism sting in Tampa involving Sami Osmakac,
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제 μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ 이야기λ₯Ό μΆœνŒν–ˆλŠ”λ°
03:32
a young man who was living near Tampa, Florida.
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μ‚¬λ―ΈλŠ” ν”Œλ‘œλ¦¬λ‹€μ£Ό νƒνŒŒ κ·Όμ²˜μ— μ‚¬λŠ” μ Šμ€μ΄μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:35
Osmakac also had schizoaffective disorder.
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μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œλ„ 정신뢄열증을 가지고 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:37
He too was broke,
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그도 돈이 μ—†μ—ˆκ³ 
03:38
and he had no connections to international terrorist groups.
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ꡭ제 ν…ŒλŸ¬ 쑰직과 아무 연관이 μ—†μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:41
Nonetheless,
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κ·ΈλŸ°λ°λ„ FBI정보원이 κ·Έμ—κ²Œ 직업과 λˆμ„ μ£Όκ³ 
03:42
an FBI informant gave him a job, handed him money,
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03:46
introduced him to an undercover agent posing as a terrorist,
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μž λ³΅μ€‘μΈ μš”μ›μ—κ²Œ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μΈ κ²ƒμ²˜λŸΌ ν•˜κ³  데렀갔고
03:49
and lured him in a plot to bomb an Irish bar.
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μ•„μΌλžœλ“œμΈ μˆ μ§‘ 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬κ³„νšμ— λŒμ–΄λ“€μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:52
But here's what's interesting:
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그런데 μž¬λ―ΈμžˆλŠ” 것은
03:54
The lead undercover agent --
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μ„ μž„ μž λ³΅μš”μ›μ΄,
03:56
you can see him in this picture with his face blurred --
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이 μ‚¬μ§„μ˜ νλ¦Ών•œ 얼꡴이 κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:58
would go back to the Tampa field office with his recording equipment on.
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νƒνŒŒ 사무싀에 λ…ΉμŒμž₯λΉ„λ₯Ό 가지고 λ‹€μ‹œ κ°‘λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:02
Behind closed doors,
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λ°€μ‹€μ—μ„œ FBIμš”μ›λ“€μ΄ 짜고 ν•œ 것이라고 μΈμ •ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:03
FBI agents admitted that what they were doing was farcical.
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04:06
A federal judge doesn't want you to hear about these conversations.
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„λ“€μ΄ 이 λŒ€ν™”λ₯Ό λ“£λŠ” κ±Έ μ—°λ°© νŒμ‚¬κ°€ μ›μΉ˜ μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:10
He sealed the transcripts and placed them under a protective order
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κ·Έκ°€ 녹취둝을 λ΄‰μΈν•˜κ³  λ³΄μ•ˆλͺ…령을 λ‚΄λ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:13
in an attempt to prevent someone like me from doing something like this.
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λˆ„κ΅°κ°€ 저같은 μ‚¬λžŒμ΄ 이런 일을 ν• κΉŒλ΄ 그랬죠.
04:17
Behind closed doors, the lead agent,
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λ°€μ‹€μ—μ„œ μ„ μž„ μš”μ›κ³Ό μˆ˜μ‚¬λ°˜μž₯이
04:19
the squad supervisor,
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04:20
described their would-be terrorist
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μ˜ˆλΉ„ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈλ₯Ό "ν• λ§Œν•œ κ³„νšλ„ μ—†λŠ” 덜 떨어진 멍청이"라고 ν‘œν˜„ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:22
as a "retarded fool who didn't have a pot to piss in."
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04:25
They described his terrorist ambitions
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그듀이 그의 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈ κ³„νšμ„
μ‹œμ‹œν•˜κ³  λͺ½μƒμ μΈ κ³„νšμ΄λΌκ³  ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:27
as wishy-washy and a pipe dream scenario.
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04:30
But that didn't stop the FBI.
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ FBIλŠ” κ±°κΈ°μ„œ λ©ˆμΆ”μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:32
They provided Sami Osmakac everything he needed.
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œκ°€ ν•„μš”ν•œ λͺ¨λ“  것을 μ œκ³΅ν•΄ μ£Όμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:36
They gave him a car bomb, they gave him an AK-47,
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μžλ™μ°¨ 폭파μž₯치, AK-47총을 μ£Όμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:39
they helped him make a so-called martyrdom video,
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μ†Œμœ„ 순ꡐ μ˜μƒμ„ 찍도둝 돕고
04:42
and they even gave him money for a taxi cab
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심지어 νƒμ‹œ μš”κΈˆλ„ μ€˜μ„œ
04:44
so that he could get to where they wanted him to go.
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그듀이 μ›ν•˜λŠ” μž₯μ†Œλ‘œ 갈 수 μžˆλ„λ‘ λ„μ™”μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:48
As they were working the sting,
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그듀이 일을 κΎΈλ―Έκ³  μžˆλŠ” λ™μ•ˆ
04:49
the squad supervisor tells his agents he wanted a Hollywood ending.
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μˆ˜μ‚¬λ°˜μž₯은 μš”μ›λ“€μ—κ²Œ ν—λ¦¬μš°λ“œμ‹ 결말을 μ›ν•œλ‹€κ³  ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:54
And he got a Hollywood ending.
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ν—λ¦¬μš°λ“œμ‹ 결말이 λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:57
When Sami Osmakac attempted to deliver what he thought
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œκ°€ μžλ™μ°¨ 폭파μž₯치라고 μƒκ°ν•œ 것을
04:59
was a car bomb,
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λ°°λ‹¬ν•˜λ €κ³  ν–ˆμ„ λ•Œ
05:00
he was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 40 years in prison.
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체포, κΈ°μ†Œλ˜μ–΄ 40λ…„ ν˜•μ„ λ°›μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:05
Sami Osmakac isn't alone.
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œ 뿐만이 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:08
He's one of more than 175 so-called terrorists,
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κ·ΈλŠ” μ†Œμœ„ 175λͺ…도 더 λ˜λŠ” ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²” 쀑 ν•œ λͺ…μœΌλ‘œ
05:10
for whom the FBI has created Hollywood endings.
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FBIκ°€ μ›ν•˜λŠ” ν—λ¦¬μš°λ“œμ‹ 결말을 μ•ˆκ²¨μ€€ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:15
U.S. government officials call this the War on Terror.
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λ―Έκ΅­ μ •λΆ€λŠ” 이것을 ν…ŒλŸ¬μ™€μ˜ μ „μŸμ΄λΌκ³  λΆ€λ₯΄μ£ .
05:18
It's really just theater,
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μ‹€μ œλ‘œλŠ” μ—°κ·Ή λ¬΄λŒ€μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:20
a national security theater,
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κ΅­κ°€ μ•ˆλ³΄ μ—°κ·Ήμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:23
with mentally ill men like Sami Osmakac
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œκ°™μ€ μ •μ‹ λ³‘μžκ°€
05:25
unwitting actors in a carefully choreographed production
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FBIκ°€ λ°°κΈ‰ν•œ μ •κ΅ν•˜κ²Œ κ°μƒ‰λœ μ—°μΆœμ—μ„œ μ—°κΈ°ν•˜λŠ”
05:28
brought to you by the FBI.
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아무것도 λͺ¨λ₯΄λŠ” 배우이죠.
05:30
Thank you.
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κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:31
(Applause)
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(λ°•μˆ˜)
ν†° 라일리: 맀우 μ‹ λž„ν•œ λΉ„νŒμ΄μž
05:41
Tom Rielly: So, those are some pretty strong accusations,
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05:44
pretty strong charges.
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맀우 κ°•ν•œ λΉ„λ‚œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:47
How can you back this up?
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μ΄κ²ƒμ˜ κ·Όκ±°λŠ” λ¬΄μ—‡μž…λ‹ˆκΉŒ?
05:48
Trevor Aaronson: My research began in 2010
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νŠΈλ ˆλ²„ μ•„λ‘ μŠ¨: 이 μ‘°μ‚¬λŠ” 2010년에 μ‹œμž‘λ˜μ—ˆλŠ”λ°
05:50
when I received a grant from the Investigative Reporting Program
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U.C λ²„ν΄λ¦¬μ˜ 쑰사보고 ν”„λ‘œκ·Έλž¨μ—μ„œ 연ꡬ비λ₯Ό λ°›μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:53
at U.C. Berkeley,
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연ꡬ 쑰ꡐ와 μ €λŠ” 911ν…ŒλŸ¬ 이후 10λ…„κ°„μ˜ λͺ¨λ“  ν…ŒλŸ¬ κΈ°μ†Œμ‚¬κ±΄μ˜
05:54
and a research assistant and I
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05:56
put together a database of all terrorism prosecutions
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05:58
at the time during the first decade after 9/11.
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λ°μ΄ν„°λ² μ΄μŠ€λ₯Ό λͺ¨μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:01
And we used the court file to find out whether
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그리고 법정 기둝을 가지고
06:04
the defendants had any connections to international terrorist groups,
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피고인듀이 μ–΄λ–€ ꡭ제 ν…ŒλŸ¬μ‘°μ§κ³Ό 연관이 μžˆλŠ”μ§€
06:07
whether an informant was used,
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정보원이 μ‚¬μš©λ˜μ—ˆλŠ”μ§€
06:09
and whether the informant played the role of an agent provocateur
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κ·Έ 정보원이 μš”μ› κ³΅μž‘μ›μ˜ 역할을 ν•΄μ„œ
06:12
by providing the means and opportunity.
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방법과 기회λ₯Ό μ œκ³΅ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€ μ‚΄νŽ΄λ΄€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:14
And we submitted that to the FBI
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그것을 FBI에 μ œμΆœν•˜λ©΄μ„œ
06:15
and we asked them to respond to our database.
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우리 λ°μ΄ν„°λ² μ΄μŠ€μ— μ‘λ‹΅ν•˜λ„λ‘ μš”μ²­ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:18
If they believed there were any errors,
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그듀이 였λ₯˜κ°€ μžˆλ‹€κ³  ν•˜λ©΄
06:20
we asked them to tell us what they were and we'd go back and check
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무엇인지 μš”μ²­ν•˜κ³  λ‹€μ‹œ ν™•μΈν–ˆμ„ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
그런데 우리 쑰사결과에 λŒ€ν•΄ μ–΄λ–€ λ°˜λ°•λ„ ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:23
and they never challenged any of our findings.
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λ‚˜μ€‘μ— κ·Έ 정보λ₯Ό μž‘μ§€κΈ°μ‚¬μ™€ 제 책을 μœ„ν•΄ μΌμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:25
Later, I used that data in a magazine article
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06:27
and later in my book,
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06:28
and on appearances on places like CBS and NPR,
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CBS와 NPR같은 곳에도 μΆœν˜„ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:31
they were offered that opportunity again
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κ·Έλ“€μ—κ²ŒλŠ” μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ 말할 κΈ°νšŒκ°€ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:33
to say, "Trevor Aaronson's findings are wrong."
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"νŠΈλ ˆλ²„ μ•„λ‘ μŠ¨μ˜ μ—°κ΅¬λŠ” 잘λͺ»λμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€." λΌκ³ μš”.
06:35
And they've never come forward and said,
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그듀은 κ²°μ½” λ‚˜μ„œμ„œ μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ λ§ν•˜μ§ˆ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:37
"These are the problems with those findings."
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"이것이 μ—°κ΅¬μ˜ 잘λͺ»λœ μ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€." λΌκ³ μš”.
이후 μ •λ³΄λŠ” μΈκΆŒκ°μ‹œλ‹¨μ²΄κ°€
06:39
So the data has since been used by groups like Human Rights Watch
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06:42
on its recent report on these types of sting operations.
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이런 μ’…λ₯˜μ˜ μž‘μ „μ— λŒ€ν•œ 졜근 λ³΄κ³ μ„œμ— μ‚¬μš©λμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
μ§€κΈˆκΉŒμ§€λ„ FBIλŠ” μ‹€μ œλ‘œλŠ” ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ„ μž‘λŠ”κ²Œ μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ
06:45
And so far, the FBI has never really responded
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06:47
to these charges that it's really not catching terrorists
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μ •μ‹ λ³‘μžλ₯Ό μž‘μ•„μ„œ
06:51
so much as it's catching mentally ill people
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ²˜λŸΌ κΎΈλ©° 이런 일을 μ‹œν‚€κ³  μžˆλ‹€λŠ”
06:53
that it can dress up as terrorists in these types of sting operations.
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λΉ„λ‚œμ— λŒ€μ‘μ„ ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šκ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:57
TR: So The Intercept is that new investigative journalism website,
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ν†°: μΈν„°μ…‰νŠΈλŠ” μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ 쑰사전문 μ–Έλ‘  μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλ‘œ
07:01
that's cofounded by Glenn Greenwald.
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κΈ€λ Œ κ·Έλ¦°μ›”λ“œκ°€ 곡톡 μ°½λ¦½ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:03
Tell us about your article and why there.
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기사에 λŒ€ν•œ 것과 κ·Έ 곳을 μ„ νƒν•œ 이유λ₯Ό 말씀해 μ£Όμ„Έμš”.
07:06
TA: The Intercept seemed to be the most logical place for this
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νŠΈλ ˆλ²„: μΈν„°μ…‰νŠΈκ°€ κ°€μž₯ 적격인 νƒ€λ‹Ήν•œ κ³³μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:09
because my article is really leveraging the fact that
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제 기사가 μ‹€μ œλ‘œ 이 사싀을 κ·ΉλŒ€ν™”μ‹œν‚€λŠ” 것은
07:12
a source had leaked to me transcripts of these
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사적인 FBI λŒ€ν™” 녹취둝이 μœ μΆœλ˜μ–΄ 생긴 일인데
07:15
private FBI conversations that a federal judge had sealed
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그것이 유좜될 경우 λ―Έκ΅­ μ •λΆ€μ˜ μž…λ²• μ „λž΅μ—
07:18
based on the government's claim that their release
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치λͺ…적인 ν”Όν•΄λ₯Ό μž…νž κ²ƒμ΄λΌλŠ” μ •λΆ€μ˜ μ£Όμž₯에 κ·Όκ±°ν•΄
07:20
would irreparably damage the U.S. government's
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μ—°λ°©νŒμ‚¬κ°€ κΈ°λ°€λ‘œ λ΄‰μΈν•œ κ²ƒμ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:22
law enforcement strategy.
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07:24
So a place like The Intercept was set up to protect journalists
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μΈν„°μ…‰νŠΈκ°™μ€ 곳이 언둠인을 λ³΄ν˜Έν•˜κ³ 
07:27
and publish their work
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μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ λ―Όκ°ν•œ μ‚¬μ•ˆμ„ λ‹€λ£° λ•Œ κ·Έλ“€μ˜ μ„±κ³Όλ₯Ό
07:28
when they're dealing with very sensitive matters like this.
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μΆœνŒν•˜λ„λ‘ μ„€λ¦½λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:31
So my story in The Intercept, which was just published today,
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μ˜€λŠ˜λ‚  좜판된 μΈν„°μ…‰νŠΈμ˜ 제 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°λŠ”
07:34
tells the story of how Sami Osmakac was set up in this FBI sting
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œκ°€ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ FBI κ³„νšμ— λ“€μ–΄κ°”λŠ”μ§€
07:37
and goes into much greater detail.
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더 μžμ„Ένžˆ λ‚˜μ™€ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:39
In this talk, I could only highlight the things that they said,
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이 κ°•μ—°μ—μ„œ 그듀이 λ§ν–ˆλ˜ κ²ƒλ§Œ μ–˜κΈ°ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:42
such as calling him a "retarded fool."
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"덜 떨어진 멍청이"라고 ν–ˆλ‹€λŠ” 그런 κ²ƒμ΄μš”.
07:44
But it was much more elaborate,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 이것은 훨씬 κ΅λ¬˜ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:45
they went to great lengths to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
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사미 μ˜€μŠ€λ§ˆμΉ΄μ‹œμ—κ²Œ λˆμ„ μ₯μ–΄ μ£Όμ–΄
07:49
which he then used to purchase weapons from the undercover agent.
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잠볡 μš”μ›μ—κ²Œμ„œ 무기λ₯Ό μ‚¬λŠ”λ° 맀우 κΈ΄ 과정이 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:52
When he went to trial,
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κ·Έκ°€ μž¬νŒμ„ 받을 λ•Œ
07:53
the central piece of evidence was that he paid for these weapons,
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이 무기λ₯Ό κ΅¬μž…ν•œ 핡심 증거가
07:56
when in truth, these transcripts show how the FBI orchestrated
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μ‹€μ œλ‘œλŠ” 이 녹취둝이 FBIκ°€ μ •μ‹ λ³‘μž 무일푼이
07:59
someone who was essentially mentally ill and broke
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λˆμ„ 가지고 무기λ₯Ό κ΅¬μž…ν•΄μ„œ
08:01
to get money to then pay for weapons
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08:03
that they could then charge him in a conspiracy for.
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음λͺ¨ν˜μ˜λ‘œ κΈ°μ†Œν•  수 있게 κΎΈλͺ„λŠ”μ§€ λ³΄μ—¬μ€λ‹ˆλ‹€.
ν†°: λ§ˆμ§€λ§‰ μ§ˆλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:06
TR: One final question.
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08:08
Less than 10 days ago,
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μ—΄ν˜ 전에
08:10
the FBI arrested some potential ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
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FBIκ°€ 잠재적인 ISIS μš©μ˜μžλ“€μ„ λΈŒλ£¨ν΄λ¦°μ—μ„œ μ²΄ν¬ν–ˆλŠ”λ°
08:13
saying that they might be headed to Syria,
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그듀이 μ‹œλ¦¬μ•„λ‘œ 갈 μˆ˜λ„ μžˆλ‹€κ³  ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:16
and were those real, or examples of more of the same?
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이것이 μ§„μ§œμΌκΉŒμš”? μ•„λ‹ˆλ©΄ 이런 같은 μ˜ˆμΌκΉŒμš”?
08:19
TA: Well so far, we only know what's come out in the court file,
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νŠΈλ ˆλ²„: μ§€κΈˆκΉŒμ§€λŠ” 법정 κΈ°λ‘μ—μ„œ λ‚˜μ˜¨ κ²ƒλ§Œ μ•Œμˆ˜ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:22
but they seem to suggest it's another example of the same.
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 같은 μ’…λ₯˜μΌ 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
이런 ν˜•νƒœμ˜ μž‘μ „μ€ 같은 νŠΉμ§•μ΄ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:25
These types of sting operations have moved from flavor to flavor.
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08:28
So initially it was al Qaeda plots,
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μ²˜μŒμ—λŠ” μ•ŒμΉ΄μ—λ‹€ κ³„νšμ΄μ—ˆκ³ 
08:30
and now the Islamic State is the current flavor.
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μ§€κΈˆμ€ ISκ°€ ν˜„μž¬ μ£Όλ₯˜μΈκ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
이 μ‚¬κ±΄μ—μ„œ μ£Όλͺ©ν•΄μ•Ό ν•  것은 κΈ°μ†Œλœ μ„Έ λͺ…이
08:33
What's worth noting about that case is that the three men that were charged
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08:36
only began the plot to go to Syria
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FBI정보원이 λ“±μž₯ν•œ 이후에
08:38
after the introduction of the FBI informant,
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μ‹œλ¦¬μ•„μ— κ°€λ €λŠ” κ³„νšμ—μ„œ μ‹œμž‘λλ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:40
and in fact, the FBI informant had helped them with the travel documents
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사싀, FBIκ°€ 그듀이 ν•„μš”ν•œ μ—¬ν–‰μ„œλ₯˜λ₯Ό μ€€λΉ„ν•˜λ„λ‘ λ„μ™”μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:44
that they needed.
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κ·Έ μ‚¬κ±΄μ—μ„œ μ›ƒκΈ°λŠ” λ°˜μ „μ€
08:45
In kind of a comical turn in that particular case,
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08:47
one of the defendant's mother had found out
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피고인 ν•˜λ‚˜κ°€ μ‹œλ¦¬μ•„λ‘œ κ°€λ €λŠ” 관심이 μžˆλ‹€λŠ” 것을
08:49
that he was interested in going to Syria and had hid his passport.
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κ·Έ μ–΄λ¨Έλ‹ˆκ°€ μ•Œκ²Œ λ˜μ–΄ μ—¬κΆŒμ„ 숨겨 λ’€μ—ˆλ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‹ˆκΉŒ λ§Œμ•½ κ·Έκ°€ 곡항에 κ°”μ—ˆμ–΄λ„
08:53
So it's unclear that even if he had showed up at the airport,
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μ–΄λ”œ 갈 μˆ˜λ‚˜ μžˆμ—ˆλŠ”μ§€ ν™•μ‹€μΉ˜ μ•Šλ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:55
that he ever could have gone anywhere.
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λ¬Όλ‘  미ꡭ에 IS에 λ“€μ–΄κ°€ λ³΄λ €λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒμ΄ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:57
So yes, there are people who might be interested in joining the Islamic State
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09:01
in the United States,
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κ·Έ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄ λ―Έκ΅­μ—μ„œ 폭λ ₯을 μΌμœΌν‚€λ €λŠ”μ§€
09:02
and those are people that the United States government should be looking at
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λ―Έκ΅­μ •λΆ€κ°€ μ‚΄νŽ΄λ΄μ•Ό ν•˜λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
이 μ‚¬κ±΄μ—μ„œ μ§€κΈˆκΉŒμ§€ λ‚˜μ˜¨ 증거둜 λ³Ό λ•Œ
09:06
to see if they're interested in violence here.
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FBIκ°€ μ΄λ“€μ˜ μ‹œλ¦¬μ•„ν–‰μ„ κ°€λŠ₯ν•˜κ²Œ λ§Œλ“€μ—ˆλ‹€λŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:08
In this particular case, given the evidence that's so far come out,
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09:11
it suggests the FBI made it possible for these guys
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09:13
to move along in a plan to go to Syria
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μ• μ΄ˆμ— κ·Έ κ·Όμ²˜μ—λ„ λͺ» 갈 μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„μš”.
09:15
when they were never close to that in the first place.
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ν†°: λŒ€λ‹¨νžˆ κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λ†€λžκ΅°μš”. νŠΈλ ˆλ²„: κ³ λ§™μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
(λ°•μˆ˜)
09:18
TR: Thanks a lot, that's amazing. TA: Thank you.
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09:20
(Applause)
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이 μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈ 정보

이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλŠ” μ˜μ–΄ ν•™μŠ΅μ— μœ μš©ν•œ YouTube λ™μ˜μƒμ„ μ†Œκ°œν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ „ 세계 졜고의 μ„ μƒλ‹˜λ“€μ΄ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μˆ˜μ—…μ„ 보게 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 각 λ™μ˜μƒ νŽ˜μ΄μ§€μ— ν‘œμ‹œλ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μžλ§‰μ„ 더블 ν΄λ¦­ν•˜λ©΄ κ·Έκ³³μ—μ„œ λ™μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λΉ„λ””μ˜€ μž¬μƒμ— 맞좰 μžλ§‰μ΄ μŠ€ν¬λ‘€λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ‚˜ μš”μ²­μ΄ μžˆλŠ” 경우 이 문의 양식을 μ‚¬μš©ν•˜μ—¬ λ¬Έμ˜ν•˜μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.

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