Robert Neuwirth: The power of the informal economy

104,503 views ・ 2012-09-05

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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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翻译人员: Bowen Yang 校对人员: Jenny Yang
00:15
In System D, this
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在D系统中,这是
00:18
is a store,
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其中一个商店
00:20
and what I mean by that is that this is a photograph
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我想说的是这是我在尼日利亚Lagos市
00:22
I took in Makoko, shantytown in Lagos, Nigeria.
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的一个叫Makoko的贫民区拍的照片。
00:27
It's built over the lagoon, and there are no streets
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它是沿着环礁湖而建的,而且没有一条街道
00:30
where there can be stores to shop,
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有商店可以给你购物,
00:32
and so the store comes to you.
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所以”商店“会主动来找你。
00:33
And in the same community,
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在这样一个社区里,
00:35
this is business synergy.
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这就是商业协同效应。
00:37
This is the boat that that lady was paddling around in,
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这是那位女士在划的船,
00:41
and this artisan makes the boat and the paddles
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而这位工匠制造船和桨
00:44
and sells directly
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然后直接卖给
00:45
to the people who need the boat and the paddles.
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需要船和桨的人。
00:47
And this is a global business.
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这是一种全球性的经营模式。
00:50
Ogandiro smokes fish in Makoko in Lagos,
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在Lagos市的Makoko镇里,Ogandiro以熏鱼营生
00:54
and I asked her, "Where does the fish come from?"
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我问她:“你们从哪里弄来的鱼啊?”
00:57
And I thought she'd say, "Oh, you know,
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我以为她会说,:“噢,
00:59
up the lagoon somewhere, or maybe across Africa,"
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某个环礁湖那弄上来的,或许在非洲的另一边”,
01:02
but you'll be happy to know she said
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但有意思的是她说
01:04
it came from here, it comes from the North Sea.
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就是这儿的,北海来的。
01:06
It's caught here, frozen, shipped down to Lagos,
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从这里捕捞,冷冻,然后运送到Lagos,
01:08
smoked, and sold for a tiny increment of profit
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熏好后,再在Lagos的街道上
01:11
on the streets of Lagos.
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赚一点点钱。
01:13
And this is a business incubator.
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这算得上是一个商业培养基地了。
01:14
This is Olusosun dump, the largest garbage dump in Lagos,
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这是Olusosun垃圾场,Lagos最大的垃圾场,
01:18
and 2,000 people work here, and I found this out
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有2000号人在这里工作,这我是通过
01:21
from this fellow, Andrew Saboru.
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Andrew Saboru了解到的。
01:24
Andrew spent 16 years scavenging materials on the dump,
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Andrew花了16年的时间在这个垃圾堆寻找各种材料,
01:28
earned enough money to turn himself into a contract scaler,
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赚了足够多的钱,能够自己做合同商,
01:31
which meant he carried a scale and went around and
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就是他带着一杆秤,然后到处
01:34
weighed all the materials that people had scavenged
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去称量人们从垃圾堆中寻找到的各种材料
01:36
from the dump. Now he's a scrap dealer.
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现在他是个废旧金属的经销商。
01:39
That's his little depot behind him,
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这后面是他的小仓库,
01:41
and he earns twice the Nigerian minimum wage.
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他的收入是尼日尼亚最低收入的两倍。
01:46
This is a shopping mall.
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这是一个购物中心。
01:48
This is Oshodi Market in Lagos.
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这是在Lagos的Oshodi市场。
01:50
Jorge Luis Borges had a story called "The Aleph,"
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Jorge Luis Borges有一个叫“The Aleph”的故事,
01:53
and the Aleph is a point in the world
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Aleph是世界上的某一点
01:54
where absolutely everything exists,
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那里有世界上所有的事物,
01:57
and for me, this image is a point in the world
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对我来说,这幅图就是这么一个点
01:59
where absolutely everything exists.
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应有尽有。
02:02
So, what am I talking about when I talk about System D?
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因此,我在说D系统的时候,我指的是什么呢?
02:04
It's traditionally called the informal economy,
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通常它是叫做非正规经济,
02:07
the underground economy, the black market.
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地下经济,黑市。
02:10
I don't conceive of it that way.
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我不那么觉得。
02:13
I think it's really important to understand that something like
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我觉得这种东西是完全开放的,
02:15
this is totally open. It's right there for you to find.
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这一点很重要。它就在那里,等你去发现。
02:20
All of this is happening openly, and aboveboard.
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所有这一切都是公开进行的,在地面上。
02:23
There's nothing underground about it.
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根本没有什么地下的东西。
02:25
It's our prejudgment that it's underground.
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所谓地下,是我们的偏见。
02:28
I've pirated the term System D from the former French colonies.
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我从前法国殖民地借用了“D系统”这个术语。
02:33
There's a word in French that is débrouillardise,
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在法语中有一个词是débrouillardise,
02:36
that means to be self-reliant,
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意思是独立的,
02:38
and the former French colonies have turned that into
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所以以前的法国殖民地就将D系统
02:42
System D for the economy of self-reliance,
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描述为独立的经济,
02:44
or the DIY economy.
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或者说DIY经济系统。
02:47
But governments hate the DIY economy,
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不过政府讨厌DIY经济系统,
02:51
and that's why -- I took this picture in 2007,
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这就是原因 -- 我在2007年照的这张照片,
02:54
and this is the same market in 2009 --
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这是2009年的同一个市场 --
02:58
and I think, when the organizers of this conference
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我觉得,当这个大会的组织者正在谈论
03:01
were talking about radical openness,
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极度开放的时候,
03:02
they didn't mean that the streets should be open
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他们没想着街道应该敞开
03:05
and the people should be gone.
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并且了无人迹。
03:06
I think what we have is a pickle problem.
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我觉得我们在这里有个酸黄瓜的问题。
03:10
I had a friend who worked at a pickle factory,
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我有一个朋友在酸黄瓜工厂工作,
03:13
and the cucumbers would come flying down
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所有黄瓜都会经过一个传送带
03:15
this conveyer belt, and his job was to pick off the ones
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他的工作是挑出
03:19
that didn't look so good and throw them in the bin
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那些比较烂的黄瓜,把他们扔到桶里
03:21
labeled "relish" where they'd be crushed and mixed
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桶上贴有"风味"的标签,这些黄瓜会被搅碎并和醋混合
03:23
with vinegar and used for other kinds of profit.
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然后拿出去卖了赚钱。
03:27
This is the pickle economy.
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这就是酸黄瓜经济系统。
03:29
We're all focusing on — this is a statistic from
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我们都在关心 -- 这是这个月早期
03:32
earlier this month in the Financial Times —
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在金融时刊杂志上的一个数据 --
03:34
we're all focusing on the luxury economy.
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我们都在关注奢侈品经济。
03:38
It's worth 1.5 trillion dollars every year, and that's
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每年它等价于150亿美金
03:40
a vast amount of money, right?
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这算是一笔巨大的金额,对吧?
03:42
That's three times the Gross Domestic Product of Switzerland.
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这个数字是瑞士GDP的三倍。
03:45
So it's vast. But it should come with an asterisk,
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确实是很庞大的数字。不过这数应该打个星号,
03:50
and the asterisk is that it excludes two thirds of the workers
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这个星号注明这其中排除了全世界
03:54
of the world.
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三分之二的工人。
03:55
1.8 billion people around the world work
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全世界18亿的人口工作于
03:59
in the economy that is unregulated and informal.
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这个未经管制的,非正式的经济系统。
04:04
That's a huge number, and what does that mean?
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这也是一个庞大的数字,而这意味着什么呢?
04:08
Well, it means if it were united in a single political system,
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这意味着如果把它联合成一个单独的政治体系,
04:12
one country, call it
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一个国家,管它叫做
04:17
"The United Street Sellers Republic," the U.S.S.R.,
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“联合街道商家共和国”,简称U.S.S.R.(和前苏联同名),
04:20
or "Bazaaristan,"
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或者“Bazaaristan(荒诞里斯坦)”,
04:21
it would be worth 10 trillion dollars every year,
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它每年的生产价值有10千亿美元,
04:26
and that would make it the second largest economy
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这将变成全世界第二大的经济系统
04:28
in the world, after the United States.
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仅次于美国。
04:30
And given that projections are that the bulk
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而根据预测
04:33
of economic growth over the next 15 years will come
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今后15年很大一部分的经济增长
04:37
from emerging economies in the developing world,
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都会从发展中世界的新兴经济体而来,
04:40
it could easily overtake the United States
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它可以轻而易举地取代美国
04:42
and become the largest economy in the world.
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从而成为世界上最大的经济动脉。
04:46
So the implications of that are vast, because it means
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(这个经济体)影响深远,因为它意味着
04:49
that this is where employment is — 1.8 billion people —
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所有的就业都将会在这里 -- 18亿人口 --
04:53
and this is where we can create a more egalitarian world,
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在这里我们可以创建一个更加平等的世界,
04:57
because people are actually able to earn money and live
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因为人们都能够赚到钱,安居乐业
05:01
and thrive, as Andrew Saboru did.
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并繁荣起来,就跟Andrew Saboru做的一样。
05:04
Big businesses have recognized this,
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大的商业机构已经看到了这一点,
05:06
and what's fascinating about this slide,
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这张幻灯片的有趣之处在于,
05:08
it's not that the guys can carry boxes on their heads
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不是那些可以头顶箱子
05:11
and run around without dropping them off.
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并且在行走中保持箱子不掉的人。
05:13
it's that the Gala sausage roll is a product that's made
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而是Gala香肠卷是由
05:16
by a global company called UAC foods
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一家叫做UAC foods的全球性公司生产的
05:19
that's active throughout Africa and the Middle East,
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在非洲和中东地区都卖得很火
05:22
but the Gala sausage roll is not sold in stores.
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但Gala香肠卷却没在商店里上架。
05:25
UAC foods has recognized that it won't sell if it's in stores.
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UAC foods意识到一旦上架,就卖不出去了。
05:29
It's only sold by a phalanx of street hawkers
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它仅仅是由一群街头小贩贩卖的
05:33
who run around the streets of Lagos at bus stations
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他们在Lagos穿街走巷,在公车站
05:36
and in traffic jams and sell it as a snack,
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在堵车的时候,把香肠卷当零食来卖,
05:40
and it's been sold that way for 40 years.
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而且已经用这种方式卖了40年了。
05:43
It's a business plan for a corporation.
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这是他们公司的营销计划,
05:45
And it's not just in Africa.
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而且不止在非洲是这样。
05:48
Here's Mr. Clean looking amorously at all the other
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这是“清洁大叔”谄媚地看着
05:51
Procter & Gamble products,
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宝洁公司的其他产品,
05:53
and Procter & Gamble, you know,
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保洁,大家都知道,
05:55
the statistic always cited is that Wal-Mart
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一个总被引用的数据是说沃尔玛
05:58
is their largest customer, and it's true, as one store,
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是他们最大的客户,的确是这样
06:03
Wal-Mart buys 15 percent, thus 15 percent
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单沃尔玛就购买了宝洁15%的产品
06:06
of Procter & Gamble's business is with Wal-Mart,
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所以宝洁15%的生意是和沃尔玛谈的
06:09
but their largest market segment is something that they call
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但他们最大的市场段是他们称之为
06:12
"high frequency stores," which is all these tiny kiosks
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“高频商店”的,也就是这些小摊子
06:15
and the lady in the canoe and all these other businesses
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那个划小木舟的妇女,所有那些生意
06:19
that exist in System D, the informal economy,
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在D系统这个非正式的经济里,
06:24
and Procter & Gamble makes 20 percent of its money
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宝洁20%的盈利
06:27
from that market segment,
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就是从这个市场段来的,
06:29
and it's the only market segment that's growing.
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而且它还是唯一一个在成长的市场段。
06:33
So Procter & Gamble says, "We don't care whether a store
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所以宝洁公司就说,“我们不在乎一个商店
06:36
is incorporated or registered or anything like that.
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是否是公司,注册过或怎样。
06:39
We want our products in that store."
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我们就是要我们的商品在那儿上架。”
06:43
And then there's mobile phones.
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再说到手机
06:45
This is an ad for MTN,
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这是一个广告,给MTN做的
06:47
which is a South African multinational
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一个南非的跨国公司
06:49
active in about 25 countries,
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覆盖范围约有25个国家,
06:52
and when they came into Nigeria —
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当他们进驻尼日利亚时 --
06:54
Nigeria is the big dog in Africa.
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尼日利亚在非洲是举足轻重的。
06:56
One in seven Africans is a Nigerian,
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在非洲每七个人中就有一个是尼日利亚人
06:58
and so everyone wants in to the mobile phone market
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所以所有人都想进入到尼日利亚的这个手机市场。
07:01
in Nigeria. And when MTN came in, they wanted
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当MTN进入的时候,
07:03
to sell the mobile service like I get in the United States
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他们想要像在美国一样销售移动业务
07:06
or like people get here in the U.K. or in Europe --
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或者像是在英国,欧洲一样 --
07:09
expensive monthly plans, you get a phone,
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每月付多一点的钱,就能得到一部手机
07:13
you pay overages,
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但你得付超限租金,
07:15
you're killed with fees --
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而且费用还不少 --
07:17
and their plan crashed and burned.
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所以他们的计划很快就失败了。
07:19
And they went back to the drawing board, and they retooled,
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然后他们回到画板上,重新规划
07:21
and they came up with another plan:
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之后得出这么一个计划:
07:23
We don't sell you the phone,
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我们不卖给你手机,
07:25
we don't sell you the monthly plan.
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我们也不卖给你月租套餐。
07:27
We only sell you airtime.
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我们只卖通话时间。
07:30
And where's the airtime sold?
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那么通话时间在哪卖呢?
07:32
It's sold at umbrella stands all over the streets,
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他们就在街上那些伞搁架上卖,
07:36
where people are unregistered, unlicensed,
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尽管人们都是没有登记,没有执照的
07:40
but MTN makes most of its profits,
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但MTN确实赚了一笔,
07:42
perhaps 90 percent of its profits,
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约占他们总盈利的90%吧,
07:45
from selling through System D, the informal economy.
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就仅从这个D系统,这个非正式经济中得到盈利。
07:50
And where do the phones come from?
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那么那些手机是从哪儿来的呢?
07:52
Well, they come from here. This is in Guangzhou, China,
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其实,他们是从这里来的。这里是中国的广州
07:54
and if you go upstairs in this rather sleepy looking
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如果你走上楼去,走上这个看起来很萧条的
07:58
electronics mall, you find the Guangzhou Dashatou
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电子商城,你就到了广州的大沙头
08:03
second-hand trade center,
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二手交易中心,
08:05
and if you go in there, you follow the guys with the muscles
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如果你进去了,你就跟着那些肌肉佬
08:09
who are carrying the boxes, and where are they going?
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那些扛着箱子的,他们要去哪儿呢?
08:11
They're going to Eddy in Lagos.
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他们要去Lago的Eddy。
08:14
Now, most of the phones there are not second-hand at all.
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现在,那儿大部分的手机都不是二手的了。
08:17
The name is a misnomer.
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那是名不符实的,
08:18
Most of them are pirated. They have the name brand
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他们是盗版的。在手机上面有牌子的商标
08:21
on them, but they're not manufactured by the name brand.
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但他们却不是那些正牌厂子组装的。
08:24
Now, are there downsides to that?
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那么,这种系统有什么缺陷吗?
08:27
Well, I guess. You know, China has no —
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啊,我觉得。你懂的,中国没有 --
08:30
(Laughter) — no intellectual property, right?
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(笑声) -- 知识产权,是吗?
08:33
Versace without the vowels.
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Versace (范思哲) 中间少了个元音。
08:35
Zhuomani instead of Armani.
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Zhuomani,而不是 Armani
08:37
S. Guuuci, and -- (Laughter) (Applause)
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S. Guuuci -- (笑声)(掌声)
08:42
All around the world this is how products
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在世界的各个地方,产品就是这样被
08:45
are being distributed, so, for instance,
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投入市场的,比如
08:48
in one street market on Rua 25 de Março
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在Rua 25 de Marco商业区的街上
08:51
in São Paulo, Brazil,
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在圣保罗,巴西,
08:53
you can buy fake designer glasses.
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你可以买到冒牌的名牌眼镜。
08:56
You can buy cloned cologne.
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可以买到克隆的古龙香水。
08:58
You can buy pirated DVDs, of course.
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可以买到盗版的DVD,这是肯定的。
09:01
You can buy New York Yankees caps
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还可以买到纽约洋基棒球队的棒球帽
09:04
in all sorts of unauthorized patterns.
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印有各种未经授权的图案。
09:07
You can buy cuecas baratas, designer underwear
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可以买到廉价的内衣,或者是名牌内衣
09:10
that isn't really manufactured by a designer,
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但不是名牌制造商生产的,
09:13
and even pirated evangelical mixtapes. (Laughter)
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还甚至可以买到福音歌曲合集。(笑声)
09:17
Now, businesses tend to complain about this,
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正规企业大多会抱怨这些盗版仿冒,
09:20
and their, they, I don't want to take away from their
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他们的,我不想掩盖他们
09:23
entire validity of complaining about it,
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抱怨的合理性,
09:25
but I did ask a major sneaker manufacturer earlier this year
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但我今年曾问过一个大型帆布鞋生产商
09:30
what they thought about piracy,
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他们是怎么看待盗版的,
09:33
and they told me, "Well, you can't quote me on this,
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他们告诉我,“怎么说呢,你可不能说是我说的,
09:34
because if you quote me on this, I have to kill you,"
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如果你说了的话,我就得灭了你,”
09:36
but they use piracy as market research.
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他们把盗版当作市场调查 (的信息反馈)。
09:42
The sneaker manufacturer told me that if
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帆布鞋生产商告诉过我
09:45
they find that Pumas are being pirated, or Adidas
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如果他们发现Pumas被盗版了,或者Adidas
09:49
are being pirated and their sneakers aren't being pirated,
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被盗版了,而他们自己的牌子却没被盗版
09:52
they know they've done something wrong. (Laughter)
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他们便知道他们肯定出问题了(笑声)
09:55
So it's very important to them to track piracy
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所以对于他们而言关注盗版很重要
09:58
exactly because of this, and the people who are buying,
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正因为如此,还有那些购买者
10:00
the pirates, are not their customers anyway,
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那些盗版商,根本不是他们的消费群体,
10:02
because their customers want the real deal.
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因为他们的消费者要的是真材实料。
10:05
Now, there's another problem.
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现在还有一个问题。
10:07
This is a real street sign in Lagos, Nigeria.
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在尼日利亚Lagos市的街头巷尾都有这一现象
10:10
All of System D really doesn't pay taxes, right?
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所有的系统D确实不缴税,对吗?
10:13
And when I think about that, first of all I think that
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当我考虑这个问题的时候,我首先想到的是
10:15
government is a social contract between the people and
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政府是一个人与人之间的社会契约
10:19
the government, and if the government isn't transparent,
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而政府,如果这个政府不够透明
10:21
then the people aren't going to be transparent either,
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那么它的人民也不会透明,
10:23
but also that we're blaming the little guy
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但我们通常会指责那些
10:26
who doesn't pay his taxes, and we're not recognizing
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偷税漏税的小人物,却忽视了
10:28
that everyone's fudging things all over the world,
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不管在世界的哪个地方,总有人在搪塞过关,
10:31
including some extremely respected businesses,
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包括那些特别受尊重的企业,
10:35
and I'll give you one example.
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我来举个例子,
10:36
There was one company that paid 4,000 bribes
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有一个公司行贿了4000次
10:40
in the first decade of this millennium, and
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在这个世纪的头十年,
10:43
a million dollars in bribes every business day, right?
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每个工作日的行贿数额约100万美元,对吗?
10:48
All over the world. And that company
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在全世界中。那个公司
10:50
was the big German electronics giant Siemens.
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正是德国的电子巨头西门子。
10:53
So this goes on in the formal economy
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所以这种现象在正规的经济体系里存在
10:57
as well as the informal economy,
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在非正规的经济体系里亦然,
10:59
so it's wrong of us to blame — and I'm not singling out
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所以是我们错怪了 -- 我不是单单
11:01
Siemens, I'm saying everyone does it. Okay?
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把西门子拎出来,我是说每个企业都这样。
11:05
I just want to end by saying that if Adam Smith
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我只想这样收尾,如果亚当.史密斯
11:08
had framed out a theory of the flea market
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当初建立的是一个跳蚤市场的理论
11:11
instead of the free market, what would be some
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而非自由市场的理论,那么最终的
11:14
of the principles?
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准则是什么?
11:16
First, it would be to understand that it could be
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首先要明白的一点是
11:20
considered a cooperative, and this is a thought
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市场将是合作制的,这是
11:22
from the Brazilian legal scholar Roberto Mangabeira Unger.
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巴西法律学者Roberto Mangabeira Unger的一个观点。
11:27
Cooperative development is a way forward.
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合作式的发展将是今后前进的方向。
11:30
Secondly, from the [Austrian] anarchist philosopher Paul Feyerabend,
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其次,引用[奥地利]无政府主义哲学家Paul Feyerabend的观点,
11:34
facts are relative, and what is a massive right
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事实是相对的,对于一个尼日利亚商人来说
11:39
of self-reliance to a Nigerian businessperson
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是一个绝对正确的自我独立,
11:42
is considered unauthorized and horrible to other people,
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对他人来讲也许是不合法,甚至是骇人听闻的,
11:46
and we have to recognize that there are differences
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我们必须承认
11:48
in how people define things and what their facts are.
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人们定义问题的方式和所认为的事实是有出入的。
11:50
And third is, and I'm taking this from
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再者,借用
11:53
the great American beat poet Allen Ginsberg,
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伟大的美国潦倒诗人Allen Ginsberg的想法,
11:56
that alternate economies barter and
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不同的经济体间互相以物易物
11:59
different kinds of currency, alternate currencies
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而不同种类的货币
12:02
are also very important, and he talked about
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也很重要,他谈过
12:05
buying what he needed just with his good looks.
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用他的容貌来买他需要的。
12:08
And so I just want to leave you there, and say that
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所以我想在这里结束,
12:11
this economy is a tremendous force for global development
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这个经济体是一个全球发展的强大生力军
12:16
and we need to think about it that way.
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我们需要这么思考。
12:18
Thank you very much. (Applause)
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非常感谢。(掌声)
12:21
(Applause)
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(掌声)
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