Robert Neuwirth: The power of the informal economy

104,503 views ・ 2012-09-05

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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Paul Lai 審譯者: Chen-Han Hsiao
00:15
In System D, this
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在「D體系」的世界裡
00:18
is a store,
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這是間商店
00:20
and what I mean by that is that this is a photograph
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而我要說的是,這張照片
00:22
I took in Makoko, shantytown in Lagos, Nigeria.
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是我在奈及利亞,拉哥斯的馬可可貧民窟(Makoko)拍的
00:27
It's built over the lagoon, and there are no streets
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商店位於潟湖的上方,那裡沒有街道
00:30
where there can be stores to shop,
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也就沒有商店可逛
00:32
and so the store comes to you.
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因此流動攤販就這麼出現了
00:33
And in the same community,
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在同一個社區中
00:35
this is business synergy.
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有所謂的企業合作
00:37
This is the boat that that lady was paddling around in,
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這艘小船是剛剛那位小販的
00:41
and this artisan makes the boat and the paddles
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這位是製作船和槳的工匠
00:44
and sells directly
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現做現賣
00:45
to the people who need the boat and the paddles.
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給需要的人
00:47
And this is a global business.
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這是個跨國生意
00:50
Ogandiro smokes fish in Makoko in Lagos,
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小販歐甘狄羅(Ogandiro)在拉哥斯的馬可可賣燻魚
00:54
and I asked her, "Where does the fish come from?"
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我問她「這些魚是哪來的?」
00:57
And I thought she'd say, "Oh, you know,
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我猜她應該會說,「噢,這個啊...」
00:59
up the lagoon somewhere, or maybe across Africa,"
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「就在這潟湖裡,要不就非洲」
01:02
but you'll be happy to know she said
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不過你會很高興聽到她說
01:04
it came from here, it comes from the North Sea.
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魚是從我們這裡,北海來的
01:06
It's caught here, frozen, shipped down to Lagos,
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在北海捕撈,冷凍,再運到拉哥斯
01:08
smoked, and sold for a tiny increment of profit
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煙燻料理後再以微薄利潤
01:11
on the streets of Lagos.
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賣到拉哥斯的街頭
01:13
And this is a business incubator.
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這是那兒的企業創新育成中心
01:14
This is Olusosun dump, the largest garbage dump in Lagos,
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奧盧梭森(Olusosun),拉哥斯最大的垃圾場
01:18
and 2,000 people work here, and I found this out
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有2000多人在這討生活
01:21
from this fellow, Andrew Saboru.
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這是安德魯‧薩布魯(Andrew Saboru)跟我說的
01:24
Andrew spent 16 years scavenging materials on the dump,
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安德魯在這拾荒了16年
01:28
earned enough money to turn himself into a contract scaler,
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他賺了錢,成了約聘秤重員
01:31
which meant he carried a scale and went around and
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也就是說,他得帶著磅秤到處跑
01:34
weighed all the materials that people had scavenged
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測量大家撿來的東西有多重
01:36
from the dump. Now he's a scrap dealer.
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現在的他則是廢棄回收物商
01:39
That's his little depot behind him,
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在他身後的是他的小倉庫
01:41
and he earns twice the Nigerian minimum wage.
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他的薪水為奈及利亞最低薪資的2倍
01:46
This is a shopping mall.
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這是他們的購物中心
01:48
This is Oshodi Market in Lagos.
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位於拉哥斯的奧修地市場(Oshodi Market)
01:50
Jorge Luis Borges had a story called "The Aleph,"
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博爾赫斯(Jorge Luis Borges)有部作品叫「阿萊斯」(The Aleph)
01:53
and the Aleph is a point in the world
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「阿萊斯」是世界的上一個小小的點
01:54
where absolutely everything exists,
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卻無奇不有
01:57
and for me, this image is a point in the world
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對我而言,這畫面就好比是「阿萊斯」
01:59
where absolutely everything exists.
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什麼都有,是世界的縮影
02:02
So, what am I talking about when I talk about System D?
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而當談到「D體系」時,該講些什麼呢?
02:04
It's traditionally called the informal economy,
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他正式的說法是非法經濟
02:07
the underground economy, the black market.
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地下經濟或黑市
02:10
I don't conceive of it that way.
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我無法想像這種模式
02:13
I think it's really important to understand that something like
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但我認為這非常重要,必須得去理解這個情況
02:15
this is totally open. It's right there for you to find.
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畢竟黑市就大剌剌的擺在眼前,等著你去探索
02:20
All of this is happening openly, and aboveboard.
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沒有任何遮掩,完全赤裸地公開
02:23
There's nothing underground about it.
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根本沒有地下不地下這回事
02:25
It's our prejudgment that it's underground.
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那只是我們的刻板印象
02:28
I've pirated the term System D from the former French colonies.
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我從前法國殖民地那借用了「D體系」這個詞
02:33
There's a word in French that is débrouillardise,
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法文有個單字是débrouillardise
02:36
that means to be self-reliant,
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即自力更生的意思
02:38
and the former French colonies have turned that into
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後來前法國殖民地把這個字變成「D體系」
02:42
System D for the economy of self-reliance,
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用來表示他們自助式的經濟方式
02:44
or the DIY economy.
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或稱DIY經濟
02:47
But governments hate the DIY economy,
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但是政府痛恨DIY經濟
02:51
and that's why -- I took this picture in 2007,
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這就是為什麼我在2007年拍了這張照片
02:54
and this is the same market in 2009 --
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同一個市場在2009年卻變了樣
02:58
and I think, when the organizers of this conference
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我相信,這場演講的策畫人
03:01
were talking about radical openness,
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在討論到「極端開放」之時
03:02
they didn't mean that the streets should be open
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並不會把街道清空
03:05
and the people should be gone.
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或驅散民眾
03:06
I think what we have is a pickle problem.
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我想我們面對的是醃菜問題
03:10
I had a friend who worked at a pickle factory,
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我有個朋友曾在醃菜工廠上班
03:13
and the cucumbers would come flying down
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有些小黃瓜會被丟出輸送帶
03:15
this conveyer belt, and his job was to pick off the ones
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他的工作就是去撿那些小黃瓜
03:19
that didn't look so good and throw them in the bin
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把賣相不好的小黃瓜丟進標有「可口」字樣的籃子裡
03:21
labeled "relish" where they'd be crushed and mixed
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再被送去攪碎、用醋調和
03:23
with vinegar and used for other kinds of profit.
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當作其他商品販售
03:27
This is the pickle economy.
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這就是醃菜的獲利方式
03:29
We're all focusing on — this is a statistic from
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但我們都只關注數據
03:32
earlier this month in the Financial Times —
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月初在金融時報中的數據
03:34
we're all focusing on the luxury economy.
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只關注大型的經濟活動
03:38
It's worth 1.5 trillion dollars every year, and that's
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這每年可值1.5兆美元
03:40
a vast amount of money, right?
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相當龐大的數字,是吧?
03:42
That's three times the Gross Domestic Product of Switzerland.
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相當於瑞士GDP的3倍
03:45
So it's vast. But it should come with an asterisk,
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的確是一塊大餅,但我們應該給它標記一下
03:50
and the asterisk is that it excludes two thirds of the workers
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這個大餅把3分之2的工作者排除在外
03:54
of the world.
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全世界的工作者
03:55
1.8 billion people around the world work
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全球18億人是在
03:59
in the economy that is unregulated and informal.
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沒有規範、非法的情況下工作
04:04
That's a huge number, and what does that mean?
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這個驚人的數字又意味著什麼?
04:08
Well, it means if it were united in a single political system,
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這代表著,如果把這些人集結為單一政治體系
04:12
one country, call it
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變成一個國家
04:17
"The United Street Sellers Republic," the U.S.S.R.,
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稱為「攤販聯盟共和國」,簡稱U.S.S.R.
04:20
or "Bazaaristan,"
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或「市集斯坦」
04:21
it would be worth 10 trillion dollars every year,
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那每年將值10兆美元
04:26
and that would make it the second largest economy
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甚至會是全球第二大經濟體
04:28
in the world, after the United States.
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僅次於美國
04:30
And given that projections are that the bulk
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而從未來15年,開發中國家新興經濟體
04:33
of economic growth over the next 15 years will come
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龐大的經濟成長規模
04:37
from emerging economies in the developing world,
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可以預測得到
04:40
it could easily overtake the United States
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美國被取代是早晚的是
04:42
and become the largest economy in the world.
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地下經濟將成為最大經濟體
04:46
So the implications of that are vast, because it means
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言外之意是,這是不容小覷的
04:49
that this is where employment is — 1.8 billion people —
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因為這就是勞動力的來源,18億人口
04:53
and this is where we can create a more egalitarian world,
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我們甚至能創造更平等的世界
04:57
because people are actually able to earn money and live
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因為大家是真的為了討生活而賺錢
05:01
and thrive, as Andrew Saboru did.
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接著繁榮起來,就像安德魯的例子一樣。
05:04
Big businesses have recognized this,
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商人很清楚這點
05:06
and what's fascinating about this slide,
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在這張幻燈片裡令人驚訝的
05:08
it's not that the guys can carry boxes on their heads
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並非是有人可以用頭頂著箱子
05:11
and run around without dropping them off.
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跑東跑西還可穩如泰山
05:13
it's that the Gala sausage roll is a product that's made
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令人眼睛為之一亮的是那裡頭的Gala牌的臘腸捲
05:16
by a global company called UAC foods
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是由跨國食品公司UAC生產的
05:19
that's active throughout Africa and the Middle East,
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在非洲和中東都有這家公司的蹤影
05:22
but the Gala sausage roll is not sold in stores.
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不過在店裡可是買不到Gala臘腸捲的
05:25
UAC foods has recognized that it won't sell if it's in stores.
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UAC公司發現臘腸捲擺在裡是賣不掉的
05:29
It's only sold by a phalanx of street hawkers
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大家只到街頭攤販那買
05:33
who run around the streets of Lagos at bus stations
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小販會把臘腸當作點心,在拉哥斯靠公車站的街道上
05:36
and in traffic jams and sell it as a snack,
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或在塞車的時候奔走叫賣
05:40
and it's been sold that way for 40 years.
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這樣的販賣方式已經持續40年了
05:43
It's a business plan for a corporation.
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這對公司來說是商業策略
05:45
And it's not just in Africa.
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這不單是在非洲
05:48
Here's Mr. Clean looking amorously at all the other
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這是寶僑清潔品牌「清潔先生」
05:51
Procter & Gamble products,
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和其他寶僑的產品
05:53
and Procter & Gamble, you know,
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一說到寶僑
05:55
the statistic always cited is that Wal-Mart
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數據總是會說沃爾瑪(Wal-Mart)
05:58
is their largest customer, and it's true, as one store,
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是寶僑的頭號大客戶,以一家店的規模來看這沒有錯
06:03
Wal-Mart buys 15 percent, thus 15 percent
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有15%由沃爾瑪買單,也就是說
06:06
of Procter & Gamble's business is with Wal-Mart,
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寶僑在生意上有15%是和沃爾瑪合作的
06:09
but their largest market segment is something that they call
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但是他們最大市場區是他們所謂的「高頻率商店」
06:12
"high frequency stores," which is all these tiny kiosks
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指的就是一些小販售亭
06:15
and the lady in the canoe and all these other businesses
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一個亭子配一個店員,其他類似的經營手法
06:19
that exist in System D, the informal economy,
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就和地下經濟「D體系」的情況一樣
06:24
and Procter & Gamble makes 20 percent of its money
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而寶僑在這樣的市場區裡
06:27
from that market segment,
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獲利了20%
06:29
and it's the only market segment that's growing.
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那也是唯一正成長的市場區
06:33
So Procter & Gamble says, "We don't care whether a store
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寶僑還說:「我們不考慮商店是否有合法登記
06:36
is incorporated or registered or anything like that.
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之類的問題
06:39
We want our products in that store."
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我們只想要貨品在店裡上架」
06:43
And then there's mobile phones.
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在來是手機
06:45
This is an ad for MTN,
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這是MTN電信的廣告
06:47
which is a South African multinational
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一家南非的跨國電信公司
06:49
active in about 25 countries,
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觸角遍及約25國
06:52
and when they came into Nigeria —
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當他們進入奈及利亞市場
06:54
Nigeria is the big dog in Africa.
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奈及利亞在非洲是個金礦
06:56
One in seven Africans is a Nigerian,
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7個非洲人中有1個就是奈及利亞人
06:58
and so everyone wants in to the mobile phone market
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大家都想打進奈及利亞的手機市場
07:01
in Nigeria. And when MTN came in, they wanted
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MTN電信進駐後,想用在美國的一樣方案
07:03
to sell the mobile service like I get in the United States
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兜售電信服務
07:06
or like people get here in the U.K. or in Europe --
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或像大家在英國或歐洲那樣的方案
07:09
expensive monthly plans, you get a phone,
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付昂貴的月費後有了手機
07:13
you pay overages,
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接著完全超支
07:15
you're killed with fees --
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整個人被淹沒在帳單堆中
07:17
and their plan crashed and burned.
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電信公司推出的方案觸礁失敗
07:19
And they went back to the drawing board, and they retooled,
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因此他們重新規劃,改良方案
07:21
and they came up with another plan:
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最後推出了新的方案
07:23
We don't sell you the phone,
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不賣手機
07:25
we don't sell you the monthly plan.
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也沒有月費方案
07:27
We only sell you airtime.
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只收通話費
07:30
And where's the airtime sold?
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那通話時間要上哪買呢?
07:32
It's sold at umbrella stands all over the streets,
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就在街頭巷尾隨處可見的陽傘下
07:36
where people are unregistered, unlicensed,
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沒有人是合法登記或持照的
07:40
but MTN makes most of its profits,
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但卻幫MTN電信賺了大把鈔票
07:42
perhaps 90 percent of its profits,
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公司大概有90%的利潤
07:45
from selling through System D, the informal economy.
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是來自「D體系」,所謂的地下經濟
07:50
And where do the phones come from?
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那麼手機又是哪來的呢?
07:52
Well, they come from here. This is in Guangzhou, China,
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這兒,這是中國的廣州
07:54
and if you go upstairs in this rather sleepy looking
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如果你走到這間看似死氣沉沉電子商場的樓上
07:58
electronics mall, you find the Guangzhou Dashatou
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你會看到「廣州大沙頭」
08:03
second-hand trade center,
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二手交易中心
08:05
and if you go in there, you follow the guys with the muscles
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如果你走進來逛逛,跟著身材壯碩
08:09
who are carrying the boxes, and where are they going?
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搬著箱子的人走,會通到哪呢?
08:11
They're going to Eddy in Lagos.
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拉哥斯的艾迪那兒
08:14
Now, most of the phones there are not second-hand at all.
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大部分的手機並非二手貨
08:17
The name is a misnomer.
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大家會錯意了
08:18
Most of them are pirated. They have the name brand
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大多是山寨機,上頭有牌子
08:21
on them, but they're not manufactured by the name brand.
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但並非出自原廠
08:24
Now, are there downsides to that?
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那麼,這樣做會不會有問題呢?
08:27
Well, I guess. You know, China has no —
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我想,在中國...
08:30
(Laughter) — no intellectual property, right?
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是沒有智慧財產權的,對吧?
08:33
Versace without the vowels.
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少了幾個字母的凡爾賽斯(Versace)
08:35
Zhuomani instead of Armani.
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亞曼尼(Armani)變成卓瑪妮
08:37
S. Guuuci, and -- (Laughter) (Applause)
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這是S.古烏...烏馳...
08:42
All around the world this is how products
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全世界都是如此
08:45
are being distributed, so, for instance,
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這就是產品批發的過程,舉例來說
08:48
in one street market on Rua 25 de Março
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在巴西聖保羅
08:51
in São Paulo, Brazil,
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的25街( Rua 25 de Março)上
08:53
you can buy fake designer glasses.
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你可以買到盜版的名牌太陽眼鏡
08:56
You can buy cloned cologne.
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盜版古龍水
08:58
You can buy pirated DVDs, of course.
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當然也有盜版光碟
09:01
You can buy New York Yankees caps
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紐約洋基隊棒球帽
09:04
in all sorts of unauthorized patterns.
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名牌仿冒品隨處可見
09:07
You can buy cuecas baratas, designer underwear
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還有廉價的名牌內褲
09:10
that isn't really manufactured by a designer,
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也非出自原廠之手
09:13
and even pirated evangelical mixtapes. (Laughter)
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甚至還有基督教的聖樂合集
09:17
Now, businesses tend to complain about this,
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現在,商人們開始抱怨了
09:20
and their, they, I don't want to take away from their
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他們...我不想質疑
09:23
entire validity of complaining about it,
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他們抱怨的正確性
09:25
but I did ask a major sneaker manufacturer earlier this year
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但我在年初的時候,的確有問一家運動鞋大廠
09:30
what they thought about piracy,
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問問他們對盜版的看法
09:33
and they told me, "Well, you can't quote me on this,
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他們說:「這個嘛,你可不能說是我說的...
09:34
because if you quote me on this, I have to kill you,"
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要不然我得殺你滅口」
09:36
but they use piracy as market research.
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他們把盜版視為市場調查的一部分
09:42
The sneaker manufacturer told me that if
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運動鞋製造商告訴我
09:45
they find that Pumas are being pirated, or Adidas
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如果他們發現Puma或Adidas被人仿冒
09:49
are being pirated and their sneakers aren't being pirated,
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自己出產的鞋子卻沒被盜版商抄襲
09:52
they know they've done something wrong. (Laughter)
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他們就會知道大事不妙了 (笑聲)
09:55
So it's very important to them to track piracy
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所以盜版方面的消息他們來說是很重要的
09:58
exactly because of this, and the people who are buying,
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而掏腰包買盜版商品人
10:00
the pirates, are not their customers anyway,
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也不屬於他們的客群
10:02
because their customers want the real deal.
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因為他們的買家想要的是正版商品
10:05
Now, there's another problem.
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現在,另一個問題出現了
10:07
This is a real street sign in Lagos, Nigeria.
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這是奈及利亞的拉哥斯,路標上就寫著「落實納稅」
10:10
All of System D really doesn't pay taxes, right?
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顯然「D體系」的人沒在繳稅的,是吧?
10:13
And when I think about that, first of all I think that
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當我思考這問題時,我第一個想到的是
10:15
government is a social contract between the people and
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政府扮演的是他和人民間「社會契約」的角色
10:19
the government, and if the government isn't transparent,
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如果政府辦事不夠透明
10:21
then the people aren't going to be transparent either,
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人民當然就有樣學樣
10:23
but also that we're blaming the little guy
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但是我們卻用放大鏡再看那些
10:26
who doesn't pay his taxes, and we're not recognizing
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不繳稅的少數人上,我們沒意識到的是
10:28
that everyone's fudging things all over the world,
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騙術戲碼在世界各地都上演著
10:31
including some extremely respected businesses,
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甚至包括一些受人敬重的大企業
10:35
and I'll give you one example.
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我這就有一個例子
10:36
There was one company that paid 4,000 bribes
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有個公司行賄量達到了4000筆
10:40
in the first decade of this millennium, and
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就發生在2000~2010年間
10:43
a million dollars in bribes every business day, right?
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每天花一百萬美元行賄,對吧?
10:48
All over the world. And that company
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全球各地都一樣,這家大公司
10:50
was the big German electronics giant Siemens.
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就是德國電子大廠西門子
10:53
So this goes on in the formal economy
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這就在我們所謂的合法經濟上真實上演
10:57
as well as the informal economy,
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當然在地下經濟的世界也不例外
10:59
so it's wrong of us to blame — and I'm not singling out
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因此,怪罪地下經濟是不對的;我並非針對西門子
11:01
Siemens, I'm saying everyone does it. Okay?
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我的意思的是大家都這麼做
11:05
I just want to end by saying that if Adam Smith
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我想以亞當‧斯密(Adam Smith)作的例子為結語
11:08
had framed out a theory of the flea market
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如果他的理論為跳蚤市場畫出了藍圖
11:11
instead of the free market, what would be some
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而非構想中的自由市場
11:14
of the principles?
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這些原則代表了什麼?
11:16
First, it would be to understand that it could be
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首先得要了解到
11:20
considered a cooperative, and this is a thought
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這是巴西法學家
11:22
from the Brazilian legal scholar Roberto Mangabeira Unger.
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羅貝多‧溫格(Roberto Mangabeira Unger)的構想
11:27
Cooperative development is a way forward.
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合作開發是條康莊大道
11:30
Secondly, from the [Austrian] anarchist philosopher Paul Feyerabend,
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第二,奧地利無政府主義哲學家保羅‧費耶阿本德(Paul Feyerabend) 認為
11:34
facts are relative, and what is a massive right
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事實是相對應的,而奈及利亞商人
11:39
of self-reliance to a Nigerian businessperson
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他們自助性的經濟
11:42
is considered unauthorized and horrible to other people,
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對其他人而言是不好、非法的
11:46
and we have to recognize that there are differences
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我們必須承認,差異一直都存在於
11:48
in how people define things and what their facts are.
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人們定義事情的方式和事情本身的事實之間
11:50
And third is, and I'm taking this from
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第三,是我從垮掉派美國詩人
11:53
the great American beat poet Allen Ginsberg,
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艾倫‧金斯堡(Allen Ginsberg)那引用的
11:56
that alternate economies barter and
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另類經濟世界中的以物易物
11:59
different kinds of currency, alternate currencies
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不同類型的貨幣、替代貨幣
12:02
are also very important, and he talked about
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都是很重要的,他還談到
12:05
buying what he needed just with his good looks.
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他用他充滿魅力的外表就能買到想要的東西
12:08
And so I just want to leave you there, and say that
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我就不再多話,讓你們想想
12:11
this economy is a tremendous force for global development
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地下經濟對全球的發展來說是顆強而有力的引擎
12:16
and we need to think about it that way.
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我們得改變對它的刻板印象
12:18
Thank you very much. (Applause)
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謝謝大家
12:21
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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