George Dyson: Let's take a nuclear-powered rocket to Saturn

翻译人员: dahong zhang 校对人员: Ning Zhang

I'm a historian.

我是一个历史学家。

Steve told us about the future of little technology;

史蒂夫讲了一些未来的小科技。

I'm going to show you some of the past of big technology.

我要讲的是过去的大科技。

This was a project to build a 4,000-ton nuclear bomb-propelled spaceship

这就是，飞往土星和木星的4000吨级原子弹推进宇宙飞船。

and go to Saturn and Jupiter.

这就是，飞往土星和木星的4000吨级原子弹推进宇宙飞船。

This took place in my childhood, 1957-65.

这还是我小时候的事儿呢 -- 大约1957年到1965年

It was deeply classified.

这是高度机密。

I'm going to show you some stuff that not only has not been declassified,

我要讲的不仅没有解密，

but has now been reclassified.

而且还要再次保密。

(Laughter)

（笑）

If all goes well, next year I'll be back,

如果顺利的话，明年我再来讲更多的东西，

and I'll have a lot more to show you, and if all doesn't go well,

如果不顺利的话，估计我会像李文和一样被关起来了。（见李文和案）

I'll be in jail, like Wen Ho Lee.

(Laughter)

（笑）

So, this ship was basically the size of the Marriott Hotel,

飞船和万豪酒店差不多大，

a little taller and a little bigger.

稍高点，稍大点。

And one of the people who worked on it at the beginning

从一开始就参与其中的人

was my father, Freeman, there in the middle.

就是我爸，弗利曼 -- 照片中间那个人。（弗里曼·戴森 Freeman Dyson，美籍英裔数学物理学家）

That's me and my sister, Esther, who's a frequent TEDster.

这是我和我姐姐，Esther，TED的常客...（埃丝特·戴森，其个人净资产1999年统计为500亿美元）

I didn't like nuclear bomb-propelled spaceships.

我不喜欢原子弹推进宇宙飞船。

I mean, I thought it was a great idea, but I started building kayaks.

我是说我认为这是个好主意，所以我开始做皮艇。

So we had a few kayaks.

我有几艘皮艇。

Just so you know that I am not Dr. Strangelove.

我当然不是奇爱博士。（见电影“奇爱博士“ Mein Führer, I can walk. :-) ）

But all the time I was out there doing these strange kayak voyages

不过每次驾驶这些奇怪的皮艇航行在地球上最美丽的地方，

in odd, beautiful parts of this planet,

不过每次驾驶这些奇怪的皮艇航行在地球上最美丽的地方，

I always thought in the back of my mind about Project Orion,

我心里总是想着猎户座计划，

and how my father and his friends were going to build these big ships.

想着我爸和他的朋友打算如何建这些大号飞船。

They were actually going to go --

他们真的打算星际旅行，而且确实计划去。

Ted Taylor, who led the project, was going to take his children.

项目带头人，泰德·泰勒，打算带上他的孩子。

My father was not going to take his children,

我爸没想带他的孩子去。

所以这也是有几年，我们之间有点了闹翻的原因。

that was one of the reasons we sort of had a falling out for a few years.

(Laughter)

（笑）

计划开于1957年，在通用原子公司（General Atomic）。

The project began in '57 at General Atomics there,

that's right on the coast at La Jolla.

就在著名的La Jolla(拉霍亚)海滩。

Look at that central building right in the middle of the picture.

看照片中间这栋建筑。

直径40多米（130英尺）的图书馆。

That's the 130-foot diameter library.

That is exactly the size of the base of the spaceship.

这大概和那艘飞船的底座差不多大。

So put that library at the bottom of that ship --

可以把飞船安放在图书馆上面 --

that's how big the thing was going to be.

这就是这艘飞船的大概尺寸。

It would take two or three thousand bombs.

需要用两三千枚核弹。

The people who worked on it were a lot of the Los Alamos people

研究这个飞船的很多人是在Los Alamos搞氢弹的。

who had done the hydrogen bomb work.

研究这个飞船的很多人是在Los Alamos搞氢弹的。

It was the first project funded by ARPA.

猎户座计划是ARPA（高级研究计划署）资助的第一个项目。

That's the contract where ARPA gave the first million dollars

这是合同，ARPA（高级研究计划署）拿出的第一笔百万美元启动资金。

to get this thing started.

这是合同，ARPA（高级研究计划署）拿出的第一笔百万美元启动资金。

"Spaceship project officially begun. Job waiting for you. Dyson."

“飞船计划正式启动。 工作在等着你。 戴森”

That's July '58.

这是在1958年7月。

Two days later, the space traveler's manifesto explaining why --

两天后：这些太空游客的宣言说明了一切 --

就像我们昨天听到的一样 -- 为什么要去太空？

just like we heard yesterday -- why we need to go into space:

"... trips to satellites of the outer planets.

“前往带外行星的卫星旅行” -- 1958年8月20日。

August 20, 1958."

These are the statistics of what would be the good places to go and stop.

这是旅行的目的地和停留地的统计表。

Some of the sizes of the ships,

各种尺寸的飞船，最大达到8百万吨级。

ranging all the way up to ship mass of 8 million tons.

各种尺寸的飞船，最大达到8百万吨级。

这是个极端。

So that was the outer extreme.

Here was version two: 2,000 bombs.

这是版本二，两千个核弹。

These are five-kiloton yield bombs, about the size of small Volkswagens;

核弹是5千吨当量炸弹，有小型大众汽车大小。

要入轨需要8百枚。

it would take 800 to get into orbit.

Here we see a 10,000-ton ship will deliver 1,300 tons

这是一万吨级飞船，将运送一千三百吨往来土星。

这是一万吨级飞船，将运送一千三百吨往来土星。

to Saturn and back -- essentially, a five-year trip.

需要五年的旅程。

Possible departure dates: October 1960 to February 1967.

可能的启程日为：1960年10月到1967年2月。

These are trajectories going to Mars.

这是到火星的轨线。

All this was done by hand, with slide rules.

这些都是用计算尺手算的。

The little Orion ship,

猎户座飞船如果用化学火箭推进的话需要多大，（图中火箭500米高）

猎户座飞船如果用化学火箭推进的话需要多大，（图中火箭500米高）

and what it would take to do what Orion does with chemicals:

you have a ship the size of the Empire State Building.

火箭大小和帝国大厦差不多。

NASA不感兴趣，试图砍掉这个项目。

NASA had no interest; they tried to kill the project.

只有空军支持这个计划，这意味着整个计划都是秘密。

The people who supported it were the Air Force,

只有空军支持这个计划，这意味着整个计划都是秘密。

which meant that it was all secret.

这就是解密的文件。

And that's why when you get something declassified, that's what it looks like.

这就是解密的文件。

Military weapon versions that carried hydrogen bombs

军事武器版，这个版本的飞船携带

氢弹，可以摧毁半个地球。

that could destroy half the planet.

There's another version there that sends retaliatory strikes at the Soviet Union.

这是另一个版本，可以对苏联实施报复性打击

This is the really secret stuff:

这是真正的秘密资料：如何实现定向爆炸，

how to get directed energy explosions.

So you're sending the energy of a nuclear explosion --

这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。

not like just a stick of dynamite, but you're directing it at the ship.

这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。

这样不像普通炸药爆炸，核爆炸是定向到飞船的。

And this is still a very active subject.

定向爆炸仍然是一个非常活跃的学科。

It's quite dangerous,

相当危险，

but I believe it's better to have dangerous things in the open

不过我想公开危险的东西比隐藏要好一些。

than think you're going to keep them secret.

不过我想公开危险的东西比隐藏要好一些。

This is what happened at 600 microseconds.

这是爆炸6百微秒后。

空军方面确实开始建造小版本飞船。

The Air Force started to build smaller models

and actually started doing this.

The guys in La Jolla said, "We've got to get started now."

在La Jolla海滩的家伙说：“我们该启动了。”

They built a high-explosive propelled model.

他们造了一个高爆炸药推进模型。

These are stills from film footage that was saved

这是从一些影片上截下来的图片。

by someone who was supposed to destroy it but didn't,

这些影片早该销毁，却被某些人藏在地下室40年。

这些影片早该销毁，却被某些人藏在地下室40年。

and kept it in their basement for the last 40 years.

这是3磅C4炸药。

So, these are three-pound charges of C4;

that's about 10 times what the guy had in his shoes.

装药量是那家伙装在鞋里的10倍。（可能指 旅游鞋炸弹）

(Laughter)

This is Ed Day putting --

每个咖啡罐里有三磅C4炸药。

So each of these coffee cans has three pounds of C4 in it.

They're building a system that ejects these at quarter-second intervals.

他们造了一个系统每四分之一秒弹出一个。

That's my dad in the sport coat there, holding the briefcase.

穿休闲装，拎着公文包的就是我爸。

So, they had a lot of fun doing this.

可有意思了，不过他们不让小孩掺和。

But no children were allowed;

我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。

my dad could tell me he was building a spaceship and going to go to Saturn,

我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。

but he could not say anything more about it.

我爸只告诉我，他在造宇宙飞船，准备去土星，没告诉其他的。

So all my life I have wanted to find this stuff out,

所以我一直想搞明白，

and spent the last four years tracking these old guys down.

花了四年时间追查这些老家伙。

这些也是视频截图。

These are stills from the video.

昨天Jeff Bezos说他要把这些影片放到Amazon网站上。

Jeff Bezos kindly, yesterday, said he'll put this video up

on the Amazon site -- some little clip of it.

昨天Jeff Bezos说他要把这些影片放到Amazon网站上。

(Applause)

非常感谢他。

So, thanks to him.

They got quite serious about the engineering of this.

他们非常认真的设计飞船。

就飞船大小来说，这绝对是大科技。

The size of that mass, for us,

is really large technology in a way we're never going to go back to.

我们永远不会再搞。

If you saw the 1959 --

在1959年，这感觉就像旅客包厢。

this is what it would feel like in the passenger compartment;

that's acceleration profile.

这是加速度分布图。

(Laughter)

And pulse-system yield: we're looking at 20-kiloton yield

脉冲系统当量。

2万吨当量相当于一千万牛顿力。

for an effective thrust of 10 million newtons.

Well, here we have a little problem, the radiation doses at the crew station:

这儿出了小问题：成员辐射剂量 每次700rad（拉德）。

这儿出了小问题：成员辐射剂量 每次700rad（拉德）。

700 rads per shot.

(Laughter)

Fission yields during development:

裂变产额：

they were hoping to get clean bombs; they didn't.

他们想找到无污染炸弹，不过没有成功。

Eyeburn: this is what happens to the people in Miami who are looking up.

眼部灼伤 -- 迈阿密盯着看的人都倒霉了。

座舱。注意，还不错。

(Laughter)

Personnel compartment noise: that's not too bad; it's very low frequencies,

噪音频率非常低，类似低音炮。

it's basically like these sub-woofers.

And now we have ground-hazard assessments when you have a blow-up on the pad.

这是地面危害评估

发射台上爆炸。

Finally, at the very end in 1964, NASA steps in and says,

最终，1964年底，NASA介入

"OK, we'll support a feasibility study for a small version

“好吧，我们支持小版本的可行性研究，可以用土星五号火箭分段发射上去。“

“好吧，我们支持小版本的可行性研究，可以用土星五号火箭分段发射上去。“

that could be launched with Saturn Vs in sections and pieced together."

这是NASA设计的，八人火星旅行版。

So this is what NASA did,

getting an eight-man version that would go to Mars.

这是NASA设计的，八人火星旅行版。

They liked it because the guys could kind of live there and be like,

他们喜欢这个设计，因为乘员有点像生活在潜艇里。

他们喜欢这个设计，因为乘员有点像生活在潜艇里。

"It's like living in a submarine."

这是乘员舱。颠倒了这样可以顺利进入人工重力模式。

This is crew compartment.

It switches, so what's upside down is right side up

这是乘员舱。颠倒了这样可以顺利进入人工重力模式。

when you go to artificial gravity mode.

科学家还打算跟去，

The scientists were still going to go along;

准备搭载7个宇航员7个科学家。

they would take seven astronauts and seven scientists.

这是20人木星旅行版。

This is a 20-man version for going to Jupiter:

双层铺位，防风地窖，运动室。

bunks, storm cellars, exercise room.

You know, it was going to be a nice, long trip.

应该是不错的长途旅行。

The Air Force version: here we have a military version.

空军版。军用版本

这些是没有解密的资料，

This is the kind of stuff that's not been declassified,

just that people managed to sneak home and after, you know,

有人私藏回家的，然后临死前交给我的。

on their deathbed, basically, gave me that.

有人私藏回家的，然后临死前交给我的。

这是艺术家构想图

The sort of artist conceptions.

These are basically PowerPoint presentations

像Powerpoint幻灯片

given to the Air Force 40 years ago.

40年前演示给空军看的。

Look at the little guys there outside the vehicle.

注意这个小人，在飞船外。

And one part of NASA was interested in it,

NASA一部分人感兴趣，但是NASA总部砍掉了这个项目。

but the headquarters in NASA, they killed the project.

NASA一部分人感兴趣，但是NASA总部砍掉了这个项目。

So finally, at the end,

最终

we can see the thing followed its sort of design path right up to 1965,

这是截止到1965年设计规划路径。

之后的就都中止了。

and then all those paths came to a halt.

Results: none.

结果？ 没有。

This project is hereby terminated.

项目由此中止。

So that's the end.

这就是结局。最后我要说的是，

All I can say in closing is:

we heard yesterday that one of the 10 bad things that could happen to us

对我们来说10个坏消息之一是有一颗小行星以我们命名。

is an asteroid with our name on it.

对我们来说10个坏消息之一是有一颗小行星以我们命名。

对NASA来说坏消息是

And one of the bad things that could happen to NASA

is if that asteroid shows up with our name on it nine months out,

以我们名字命名的小行星9个月内撞到我们，

and everybody says,

人们会说，“我们该怎么办呀？”

"Well, what are we going to do?"

猎户座计划即使不是唯一的，也是现成的技术。

And Orion is really one of the only, if not the only,

off-the-shelf technologies that could do something.

猎户座计划即使不是唯一的，也是现成的技术。

(Laughter)

So I'm going to tell you the good news and the bad news.

所以我要告诉大家一个好消息和一个坏消息。

The good news is that NASA has a small, secret contingency-plan division

好消息是，NASA有一个秘密应急计划部门考虑这些，

好消息是，NASA有一个秘密应急计划部门考虑这些，

that is looking at this, trying to keep knowledge of Orion preserved

尽量保存猎户座计划的知识以应对灾难。

in the event of such a misfortune.

Maybe keep a few little bombs of plutonium on the side.

可能还保存了一些核弹也说不定。

That's the good news.

这是好消息。坏消息是，

The bad news is, when I got in contact with these people

当我联系这些人要一些资料的时候

to try and get some documents from them, they went crazy

当我联系这些人要一些资料的时候

他们很郁闷，因为我的资料比他们还全。

because I had all this stuff that they don't have,

and NASA purchased 1,759 pages of this stuff from me.

NASA从我这里买走了1759页的资料。

So that's the state we're at; it's not very good.

这就是目前的状况。不太妙。

(Laughter)

(Applause)

（鼓掌）