My Country Will Be Underwater Soon -- Unless We Work Together | Anote Tong | TED Talks

Prevodilac: Tereza Ivanovic Lektor: Mile Živković

Chris Anderson: Perhaps we could start by just telling us about your country.

Kris Anderson: Mogli bismo početi pričom o vašoj zemlji.

It's three dots there on the globe. Those dots are pretty huge.

To su tri tačke na zemaljskoj kugli. Prilično velike tačke.

I think each one is about the size of California.

Mislim da je svaka od njih veličine kao Kalifornija.

Tell us about Kiribati.

Pričajte nam o Kiribatima.

Anote Tong: Well, let me first begin by saying how deeply grateful I am

Anote Tong: Prvo da vam se zahvalim zbog mogućnosti

for this opportunity to share my story with people who do care.

da ispričam priču onima, koje to zaista zanima.

I think I've been sharing my story with a lot of people who don't care too much.

Mnogima sam već ispričao priču, ali nisu mnogo marili.

But Kiribati is comprised of three groups of islands:

Kiribati uključuju tri grupe ostrva:

the Gilbert Group on the west,

na zapadu su ostrva Gilbert,

we have the Phoenix Islands in the middle,

u sredini su ostrva Feniks,

and the Line Islands in the east.

a na istoku su Linijska ostrva.

And quite frankly, Kiribati is perhaps the only country

Iskreno rečeno, Kiribati su možda jedina zemlja

that is actually in the four corners of the world,

koja se nalazi na četiri kraja sveta,

because we are in the Northern Hemisphere, in the Southern Hemisphere,

jer se nalazimo i na severnoj i na južnoj hemisferi,

and also in the east and the west of the International Date Line.

a takođe istočno i zapadno od Međunarodne datumske granice.

These islands are entirely made up of coral atolls,

Ova ostrva su uglavnom atoli,

and on average about two meters above sea level.

u proseku su na oko dva metara nadmorske visine.

And so this is what we have.

To je ono što imamo.

Usually not more than two kilometers in width.

Ostrva nisu šira od dva kilometra.

And so, on many occasions, I've been asked by people,

Bilo je mnogo slučajeva kada su me pitali:

"You know, you're suffering, why don't you move back?"

"Vi se mučite. Zašto se ne povučete malo nazad?"

They don't understand.

Oni ne shvataju.

They have no concept of what it is that's involved.

Nemaju predstavu šta je sve upetljano.

With the rising sea, they say, "Well, you can move back."

Kada se podiže nivo mora, oni kažu: "Možete se povući malo nazad."

And so this is what I tell them.

Ja im odgovaram:

If we move back, we will fall off on the other side of the ocean. OK?

"Ako se povučemo, pašćemo u okean sa druge strane, razumete?"

But these are the kinds of issues that people don't understand.

Ovakve stvari ljudi ne razumeju.

CA: So certainly this is just a picture of fragility there.

KA: Ovo oslikava veoma krhko stanje tamo.

When was it that you yourself realized

Kada ste vi, sami, shvatili

that there might be impending peril for your country?

da predstoji opasnost za vašu zemlju?

AT: Well, the story of climate change has been one that has been going on

AT: Priča o klimatskoj promeni

for quite a number of decades.

provlači se već decenijama.

And when I came into office in 2003,

Kada sam stupio na dužnost 2003,

I began talking about climate change at the United Nations General Assembly,

počeo sam priču o klimatskoj promeni na Generalnoj skupštini UN,

but not with so much passion,

ali ne sa toliko strasti,

because then there was still this controversy among the scientists

jer je među naučnicima bilo neslaganja,

whether it was human-induced, whether it was real or it wasn't.

da li ju je podstrekao čovek, da li je stvarna ili nije.

But I think that that debate was fairly much concluded in 2007

Ta debata je okončana 2007,

with the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC,

Četvrtim Izveštajem o oceni IPCC, gde je kategorički izjavljeno

which made a categorical statement that it is real, it's human-induced,

da je ona stvarna, prouzrokovana od strane ljudi

and it's predicting some very serious scenarios

i predviđa veoma ozbiljna scenarija

for countries like mine.

za zemlje kao što je moja.

And so that's when I got very serious.

Tada sam to ozbiljno shvatio.

In the past, I talked about it.

Pričao sam o tome i u prošlosti.

We were worried.

Bili smo zabrinuti.

But when the scenarios, the predictions came in 2007,

Ali, kada su se pojavili scenariji i predviđanja 2007,

it became a real issue for us.

to je za nas postala realnost.

CA: Now, those predictions are, I think, that by 2100,

KA: Prema tim predviđanjima, do 2100,

sea levels are forecast to rise perhaps three feet.

nivo mora će se podići skoro za metar.

There's scenarios where it's higher than that, for sure,

Neki predviđaju i više,

but what would you say to a skeptic who said,

ali šta biste vi rekli skeptiku koji kaže:

"What's three feet?

"Šta je jedan metar?

You're on average six feet above sea level.

Vi ste u proseku tri metra iznad nivoa mora.

What's the problem?"

U čemu je problem?"

AT: Well, I think it's got to be understood

AT: Mora da se shvati

that a marginal rise in sea level

da bi i neznatni porast nivoa mora

would mean a loss of a lot of land,

značio gubitak velikog dela zemljišta,

because much of the land is low.

jer većina zemljišta je nisko.

And quite apart from that, we are getting the swells at the moment.

Pored toga, već je sve natopljeno.

So it's not about getting two feet.

Nije u pitanju samo pola metra.

I think what many people do not understand

Mnogi ne shvataju

is they think climate change is something that is happening in the future.

da klimatska promena nije nešto što će se desiti u budućnosti.

Well, we're at the very bottom end of the spectrum.

Već smo na samom dnu dešavanja.

It's already with us.

Ona je već sa nama.

We have communities who already have been dislocated.

Neke zajednice su već dislocirane.

They have had to move, and every parliament session,

Morali su da se presele, i na svakom zasedanju Skupštine

I'm getting complaints from different communities

ljudi se žale,

asking for assistance to build seawalls,

traže pomoć za podizanje nasipa,

to see what we can do about the freshwater lens

žele da vide šta radimo sa resursima vode,

because it's being destroyed,

jer se one uništavaju.

and so in my trips to the different islands,

Na svojim putovanjima na razna ostrva

I'm seeing evidence of communities

vidim da se neke zajednice

which are now having to cope with the loss of food crops,

bore sa gubitkom useva,

the contamination of the water lenses,

zagađenjem vodenih resursa,

and I see these communities perhaps leaving, having to relocate,

i vidim da će zadeset godina možda morati da odu,

within five to 10 years.

da budu preseljene.

CA: And then, I think the country suffered its first cyclone,

KA: Mislim da ste pretrpeli i prvi ciklon,

and this is connected, yes? What happened here?

a to je sve povezano. Šta se desilo?

AT: Well, we're on the equator,

AT: Mi smo na ekvatoru,

and I'm sure many of you understand that when you're on the equator,

i siguran sam da mnogi misle da smo u stagnaciji,

it's supposed to be in the doldrums. We're not supposed to get the cyclones.

da nismo izloženi ciklonima.

We create them, and then we send them either north or south.

Mi ih stvaramo i onda ih šaljemo na sever ili na jug.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But they aren't supposed to come back.

Ne bi trebalo da nam se vrate.

But for the first time, at the beginning of this year,

Ali, prvi put početkom ove godine,

the Cyclone Pam, which destroyed Vanuatu,

ciklon Pam, koji je uništio Vanuatu,

and in the process, the very edges of it actually touched

njegovi obodi su dotakli

our two southernmost islands,

dva naša najjužnija ostrva,

and all of Tuvalu was underwater when Hurricane Pam struck.

tako da je ceo Tuvalu bio pod vodom kad je udario ciklon Pam.

But for our two southernmost islands,

Na dva najjužnija ostrva

we had waves come over half the island,

talasi su dopreli do polovine ostrva, a i više,

and so this has never happened before.

to se ranije nikad nije dogodilo.

It's a new experience.

To je novo iskustvo.

And I've just come back from my own constituency,

Upravo sam se vratio iz svoje izborne jedinice,

and I've seen these beautiful trees which had been there for decades,

i video sam ovo divno drveće, koje se decenijama nalazi ovde,

they've been totally destroyed.

potpuno uništeno.

So this is what's happening,

Evo, to se događa,

but when we talk about the rising sea level,

ali kada govorimo o porastu nivoa mora,

we think it's something that happens gradually.

mislimo da se to dešava postepeno.

It comes with the winds, it comes with the swells,

Dolazi sa vetrovima, natapa se,

and so they can be magnified,

dolazi do uvećanja,

but what we are beginning to witness is the change in the weather pattern,

ali ono čemu smo svedoci, to je promena modela vremena,

which is perhaps the more urgent challenge

a to je gorući izazov

that we will face sooner than perhaps the rising sea level.

sa kojim ćemo se suočiti pre nego sa povećanjem nivoa mora.

CA: So the country is already seeing effects now.

KA: Znači, država već vidi posledice.

As you look forward,

U budućnosti,

what are your options as a country, as a nation?

koje su vaše opcije kao države, kao naroda?

AT: Well, I've been telling this story every year.

AT: Ja ponavljam ovu priču svake godine.

I think I visit a number of --

Putujem svetom,

I've been traveling the world to try and get people to understand.

trudim se da ljudi shvate.

We have a plan, we think we have a plan.

Mislim da imamo plan.

And on one occasion, I think I spoke in Geneva

Jednom prilikom sam govorio u Ženevi,

and there was a gentleman who was interviewing me

jedan gospodin

on something like this,

me je intervjuisao o ovome,

and I said, "We are looking at floating islands,"

a ja sam rekao da mi tražimo plutajuća ostrva,

and he thought it was funny, but somebody said,

njemu je to bilo smešno, ali je neko rekao:

"No, this is not funny. These people are looking for solutions."

"Ovo nije smešno. Ljudi traže rešenja."

And so I have been looking at floating islands.

Tražim plutajuća ostrva.

The Japanese are interested in building floating islands.

Japanci su zainteresovanI za izgradnju.

But, as a country, we have made a commitment

Kao država opredelili smo se.

that no matter what happens, we will try as much as possible

Bez obzira šta se dešava, pokušaćemo koliko god možemo

to stay and continue to exist as a nation.

da ostanemo i nastavimo opstanak kao narod.

What that will take,

Kako ćemo izdržati,

it's going to be something quite significant,

to će biti nešto veoma značajno,

very, very substantial.

veoma, veoma suštinsko.

Either we live on floating islands,

Živećemo na plutajućim ostrvima

or we have to build up the islands to continue to stay out of the water

ili ćemo nadgraditi ostrva da bismo bili iznad vode

as the sea level rises and as the storms get more severe.

kad more nadolazi i kad budu žestoke oluje.

But even that, it's going to be very, very difficult

Bez obzira, biće jako, jako teško

to get the kind of resourcing that we would need.

nabaviti sredstva za ono što nam treba.

CA: And then the only recourse is some form of forced migration.

KA: Onda, jedini izlaz je prisilna migracija.

AT: Well, we are also looking at that

AT: Razmatramo i to,

because in the event that nothing comes forward

jer u slučaju da ne stigne ništa

from the international community,

iz međunarodne zajednice,

we are preparing,

pripremamo se,

we don't want to be caught like what's happening in Europe.

ne smemo biti zatečeni poput onoga što se dešava u Evropi.

OK? We don't want to mass migrate at some point in time.

Ne želimo da masovno migriramo u nekom momentu.

We want to be able to give the people the choice today,

Želimo da pružimo šansu ljudima danas,

those who choose and want to do that, to migrate.

oni koji žele to da učine, neka migriraju.

We don't want something to happen that they are forced to migrate

Ne želimo da se nešto desi i da budu prisiljeni da se sele,

without having been prepared to do so.

a da za to nisu spremni.

Of course, our culture is very different, our society is very different,

Naša kultura je veoma različita, naše društvo je veoma različito,

and once we migrate into a different environment,

i kad se preselimo u drugačije okruženje,

a different culture,

u drugačiju kulturu,

there's a whole lot of adjustments that are required.

potrebno je mnogo prilagođavanja.

CA: Well, there's forced migration in your country's past,

KA: Postoji prisilno preseljenje u vašoj državi,

and I think just this week,

i ove nedelje ste,

just yesterday or the day before yesterday,

juče ili prekjuče,

you visited these people.

posetili te ljude.

What happened here? What's the story here?

Šta se desilo? Šta kažu?

AT: Yes, and I'm sorry, I think somebody was asking

AT: Da, žao mi je, mislim da me je neko pitao

why we were sneaking off to visit that place.

zašto smo umakli sa tog mesta.

I had a very good reason, because we have a community of Kiribati people

Imali smo dobar razlog, jer imamo zajednicu ljudi sa Kiribata,

living in that part of the Solomon Islands,

koji žive u tom delu Solomonskih ostrva,

but these were people who were relocated from the Phoenix Islands, in fact,

a ovo su bili ljudi dislocirani sa ostrva Feniks

in the 1960s.

60-tih godina.

There was serious drought, and the people could not continue to live on the island,

Desila se ozbiljna suša, ljudi nisu mogli živeti više na ostrvu,

and so they were moved to live here in the Solomon Islands.

bili su preseljeni na Solomonska ostrva.

And so yesterday it was very interesting to meet with these people.

Bio je veoma zanimljiv susret sa tim ljudima juče.

They didn't know who I was. They hadn't heard of me.

Nisu znali ko sam. Nisu čuli za mene.

Some of them later recognized me,

Neki su me kasnije prepoznali,

but I think they were very happy.

mislim da su bili veoma srećni.

Later they really wanted to have the opportunity to welcome me formally.

Kasnije su hteli da mi prirede i formalnu dobrodošlicu.

But I think what I saw yesterday was very interesting

Ono što sam juče video bilo je veoma zanimljivo,

because here I see our people.

jer ovde vidim naše ljude.

I spoke in our language, and of course they spoke back, they replied,

Govorim našim jezikom, i naravno oni tako uzvraćaju,

but their accent, they are beginning not to be able to speak Kiribati properly.

ali drugačijim akcentom, oni još malo i neće govoriti ispravno Kiribati.

I saw them, there was this lady with red teeth.

Video sam ih, bila je ova žena sa crvenim zubima.

She was chewing betel nuts,

Žvakala je betel,

and it's not something we do in Kiribati.

a mi to na Kiribatima ne činimo.

We don't chew betel nuts.

Ne žvaćemo betel.

I met also a family who have married the local people here,

Neki se žene i udaju za meštane ovde,

and so this is what is happening.

evo, to se dešava.

As you go into another community, there are bound to be changes.

Kada odete u drugu zajednicu, obavezno se dešavaju promene.

There is bound to be a certain loss of identity,

Obavezno se desi određeni gubitak identiteta,

and this is what we will be looking for in the future

time ćemo se suočiti u budućnosti,

if and when we do migrate.

ako i kada budemo migrirali.

CA: It must have been just an extraordinarily emotional day

KA: Mora da je bio izuzetno emotivan dan,

because of these questions about identity,

zbog ovih pitanja o identitetu,

the joy of seeing you and perhaps an emphasized sense of what they had lost.

zbog radosti što vas vide, i zbog naglašenog osećanja gubitka.

And it's very inspiring to hear you say you're going to fight to the end

Vrlo je inspirativno čuti da ćete se boriti do kraja

to try to preserve the nation in a location.

da sačuvate narod na svom ognjištu.

AT: This is our wish.

AT: To je naša želja.

Nobody wants ever to leave their home,

Niko nikad ne želi napustiti svoj dom,

and so it's been a very difficult decision for me.

i to je veoma teška odluka za mene.

As a leader, you don't make plans to leave your island, your home,

Kao lider, ne planirate da napustite vaše ostrvo, vaš dom,

and so I've been asked on a number of occasions,

i mnogo puta su me pitali:

"So how do you feel?"

"Pa, kako se osećate?"

And it doesn't feel good at all.

Uopšte mi nije bilo prijatno.

It's an emotional thing, and I've tried to live with it,

To je stvar osećanja, pokušavam da živim s time,

and I know that on occasions, I'm accused of not trying to solve the problem

i znam da me u nekim prilikama osuđuju da ne pokušavam da rešim problem,

because I can't solve the problem.

ali ja ne mogu da rešim problem.

It's something that's got to be done collectively.

To se mora uraditi na kolektivnom nivou.

Climate change is a global phenomenon, and as I've often argued,

Klimatska promena je globalna pojava, često sam tvrdio,

unfortunately, the countries, when we come to the United Nations --

nažalost, kada smo dolazili u UN,

I was in a meeting with the Pacific Island Forum countries

susretao sam se sa Forumom Pacifičkih država,

where Australia and New Zealand are also members,

čiji su članovi kako Australija, tako i Novi Zeland,

and we had an argument.

imali smo raspravu.

There was a bit of a story in the news

Bilo je o tome nešto malo u vestima,

because they were arguing that to cut emissions,

jer su tvrdili da je smanjenje emisija emoguće,

it would be something that they're unable to do

da je to nešto što ne bi mogli da urade,

because it would affect the industries.

jer bi to uticalo na industriju.

And so here I was saying,

Na to sam rekao:

OK, I hear you,

U redu,

I understand what you're saying,

razumem šta kažete,

but try also to understand what I'm saying

ali pokušajte i vi da shvatite šta ja govorim,

because if you do not cut your emissions,

jer ako ne smanjite emisije,

then our survival is on the line.

naš opstanak je na granici.

And so it's a matter for you to weigh this, these moral issues.

Na vama je da procenite ova moralna pitanja.

It's about industry as opposed to the survival of a people.

Ovde je industrija naspram preživljavanja ljudi.

CA: You know, I ask you yesterday what made you angry,

KA: Pitao sam juče zašto ste ljutiti,

and you said, "I don't get angry." But then you paused.

a vi ste odgovorili da niste, pa ste zastali.

I think this made you angry.

Mislim da ste zbog ovog ljuti.

AT: I'd refer you to my earlier statement at the United Nations.

AT: Pozvao bih se na svoju raniju izjavu u Ujedinjenim nacijama.

I was very angry, very frustrated and then depressed.

Bio sam veoma ljut, frustriran i utučen.

There was a sense of futility

Osećala se uzaludnost borbe koju vodimo,

that we are fighting a fight that we have no hope of winning.

bez nade da ćemo pobediti.

I had to change my approach.

Morao sam da promenim svoj pristup.

I had to become more reasonable

Morao sam postati umereniji

because I thought people would listen to somebody who was rational,

jer sam mislio da će ljudi slušati one, koji su racionalni,

but I remain radically rational, whatever that is.

ali sam ostao skroz racionalan, šta god to znači.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: Now, a core part of your nation's identity is fishing.

KA: Suštinski deo identiteta vašeg naroda je ribolov.

I think you said pretty much everyone is involved in fishing in some way.

Skoro svi su vezani za ribolov na neki način.

AT: Well, we eat fish every day, every day,

AT: Da, jedemo ribu svakodnevno,

and I think there is no doubt that our rate of consumption of fish

nema sumnje da je naša stopa potrošnje ribe

is perhaps the highest in the world.

možda najviša na svetu.

We don't have a lot of livestock,

Nemamo veliki stočni fond,

so it's fish that we depend on.

mi zavisimo od ribe.

CA: So you're dependent on fish, both at the local level

KA: Prema tome, vi zavisite od ribe, kako na lokalnom nivou,

and for the revenues that the country receives

tako i po prihodima koje država ostvaruje

from the global fishing business for tuna,

od ulova tuna,

and yet despite that, a few years ago you took a very radical step.

a ipak, pre nekoliko godina ste preduzeli jedan veoma radikalan korak.

Can you tell us about that?

Recite nam nešto o tome.

I think something happened right here in the Phoenix Islands.

Mislim da se nešto desilo baš ovde, na ostrvu Feniks.

AT: Let me give some of the background of what fish means for us.

AT: Hajde da vam otkrijem šta riba znači za nas.

We have one of the largest tuna fisheries remaining in the world.

Imamo najveći prostor za izlov tune na svetu.

In the Pacific, I think we own something like 60 percent

U Tihom okeanu posedujemo oko šezdeset posto

of the remaining tuna fisheries,

preostalog lovišta,

and it remains relatively healthy for some species, but not all.

i ono ostaje relativno bezbedno za neke vrste, ali ne za sve.

And Kiribati is one of the three major resource owners,

Kiribati su jedan od tri najveća vlasnika ovih resursa,

tuna resource owners.

resursa tuna.

And at the moment, we have been getting

Sada dobijamo

something like 80 to 90 percent of our revenue

oko osamdeset do devedeset posto prihoda

from access fees, license fees.

od naknada za pristup i licencu.

CA: Of your national revenue.

KA: Govorite o državnom dohotku?

AT: National revenue,

AT: O državnom dohotku,

which drives everything that we do

koji je pokretač svega što imamo i radimo u vladi,

in governments, hospitals, schools and what have you.

bolnicama, školama.

But we decided to close this, and it was a very difficult decision.

Ipak smo odlučili da to okončamo i bila je to veoma teška odluka.

I can assure you, politically, locally, it was not easy,

Uveravam vas da to nije bilo lako ni politički, ni na lokalu,

but I was convinced that we had to do this

ali sam bio ubeđen da to moramo učiniti,

in order to ensure that the fishery remains sustainable.

da bismo bili sigurni da je ribarstvo održivo.

There had been some indications that some of the species,

Bilo je naznaka da su neke vrste tuna

in particular the bigeye, was under serious threat.

ozbiljno ugrožene, naročito velikooka.

The yellowfin was also heavily fished.

Previše se izlovljava i tuna sa žutim perajima.

Skipjack remains healthy.

Riba skakavica je bezbedna.

And so we had to do something like that, and so that was the reason I did that.

Ovo su bili razlozi da učinimo nešto.

Another reason why I did that

Drugi razlog je bio to,

was because I had been asking the international community

što sam zamolio međunarodnu zajednicu,

that in order to deal with climate change, in order to fight climate change,

da se žrtvujemo i obavezujemo,

there has got to be sacrifice, there has got to be commitment.

da bismo se bavili klimatskom promenom, da bismo se borili pritiv nje.

So in asking the international community to make a sacrifice,

Da bih zamolio međunarodnu zajednicu za požrtvovanje,

I thought we ourselves need to make that sacrifice.

mislio sam da prvo mi sami moramo da se žrtvujemo.

And so we made the sacrifice.

To smo i uradili.

And forgoing commercial fishing

Prestanak komercijalnog lova

in the Phoenix Islands protected area

na zaštićenom području Ostrva Feniks

would mean a loss of revenue.

značiće gubitak dohotka.

We are still trying to assess what that loss would be

Još uvek procenjujemo gubitak,

because we actually closed it off at the beginning of this year,

jer smo istrajali od početka godine,

and so we will see by the end of this year

videćemo krajem godine

what it means in terms of the lost revenue.

šta to znači u smislu gubitka dohotka.

CA: So there's so many things playing into this.

KA: Mnogo toga je ovde u igri.

On the one hand, it may prompt healthier fisheries.

U jednu ruku, to može pokrenuti zdravije ribarstvo.

I mean, how much are you able to move the price up

Koliko možete podići cene

that you charge for the remaining areas?

koje naplaćujete za ostala područja?

AT: The negotiations have been very difficult,

AT: Pregovori su bili vrlo teški,

but we have managed to raise the cost of a vessel day.

ali smo uspeli podići cenu dnevne dozvole.

For any vessel to come in to fish for a day,

Za brod koji dolazi u jednodnevni ribolov

we have raised the fee from -- it was $6,000 and $8,000,

podigli smo cenu - bila je od 6 do 8 hiljada dolara -

now to $10,000, $12,000 per vessel day.

sada je od 10 do 12 hiljada dolara po danu.

And so there's been that significant increase.

Porast je značajan.

But at the same time, what's important to note is,

Važno je napomenuti

whereas in the past these fishing boats

da su u prošlosti ribarski brodovi

might be fishing in a day and maybe catch 10 tons,

mogli da izlove 10 tona dnevno,

now they're catching maybe 100 tons because they've become so efficient.

a sada možda i 100 tona, toliko su postali efikasni.

And so we've got to respond likewise.

Morali smo na isti način odgovoriti.

We've got to be very, very careful because the technology has so improved.

Morali smo biti veoma obazrivi, jer je tehnologija mnogo napredovala.

There was a time when the Brazilian fleet moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Jedno vreme se brazilska flota preselila sa Atlantika na Tihi okean.

They couldn't.

Nisu mogli.

They started experimenting if they could, per se.

Samoinicijativno su počeli da eksperimentišu mogu li.

But now they've got ways of doing it, and they've become so efficient.

Sada su našli načina, zato su tako efikasni.

CA: Can you give us a sense of what it's like in those negotiations?

KA: Možete li nam dočarati kakvi su ti pregovori?

Because you're up against companies

Jer ste vi ustali protiv kompanija

that have hundreds of millions of dollars at stake, essentially.

koje imaju stotine miliona dolara u igri.

How do you hold the line?

Kako održavate sadašnje stanje?

Is there any advice you can give

Imate li savet

to other leaders who are dealing with the same companies

drugim liderima, koji se bave istim kompanijama,

about how to get the most for your country,

kako da izvuku najviše za državu,

get the most for the fish?

za ribolov?

What advice would you give?

Koji biste savet dali?

AT: Well, I think we focus too often on licensing

AT: Previše se fokusiramo na davanje dozvola

in order to get the rate of return,

da bismo ostvarili dobit,

because what we are getting from license fees

jer je dobit od naknade za licencu

is about 10 percent of the landed value of the catch

iznosi oko deset posto izlova,

on the side of the wharf, not in the retail shops.

na doku, ne u maloprodajnim objektima.

And we only get about 10 percent.

Mi dobijamo samo oko deset posto.

What we have been trying to do over the years

Godinama pokušavamo

is actually to increase our participation in the industry,

da povećamo udeo u industriji,

in the harvesting, in the processing,

u prehrani, u preradi,

and eventually, hopefully, the marketing.

i, nadamo se, u marketingu.

They're not easy to penetrate,

Nije lako probiti se,

but we are working towards that,

ali idemo u tom pravcu,

and yes, the answer would be to enhance.

odgovor je u napredovanju,

In order to increase our rate of return, we have to become more involved.

da bismo povećali dohodak, moramo se više uključiti.

And so we've started doing that,

Počeli smo već sa time,

and we have to restructure the industry.

moramo preurediti industriju.

We've got to tell these people that the world has changed.

Moramo objasniti ljudima da se svet promenio.

Now we want to produce the fish ourselves.

Sada želimo sami da proizvodimo ribu.

CA: And meanwhile, for your local fishermen,

KA: U međuvremenu, lokalni ribari

they are still able to fish,

još uvek mogu loviti ribu,

but what is business like for them?

kako se njima čini posao?

Is it getting harder? Are the waters depleted?

Da li postaje teži? Da li su vode osiromašene?

Or is that being run on a sustainable basis?

Ili je sve to održivo?

AT: For the artisanal fishery,

AT: Zanatlijsko ribarstvo

we do not participate in the commercial fishing activity

ne učestvuje u komercijalnom ribarstvu,

except only to supply the domestic market.

ono snabdeva samo domaće tržište.

The tuna fishery is really entirely for the foreign market,

Izlov tune je za strano tržište,

mostly here in the US, Europe, Japan.

uglavnom za SAD, Evropu i Japan.

So I am a fisherman, very much,

I sam sam ribar,

and I used to be able to catch yellowfin.

nekada sam lovio tune sa žutim perajima.

Now it's very, very rare to be able to catch yellowfin

Sada je retkost uloviti tu vrstu,

because they are being lifted out of the water by the hundreds of tons

jer su vađene na stotine tona

by these purse seiners.

kružnim mrežama.

CA: So here's a couple of beautiful girls from your country.

KA: Evo par lepih devojaka iz vaše zemlje.

I mean, as you think about their future,

Razmišljajući o njihovoj budućnosti,

what message would you have for them

šta im poručujete,

and what message would you have for the world?

a šta biste poručili svetu?

AT: Well, I've been telling the world that we really have to do something

AT: Govorim svetu da zaista moramo učiniti nešto

about what is happening to the climate

zbog dešavanja sa klimom,

because for us, it's about the future of these children.

jer od toga zavisi budućnost naše dece.

I have 12 grandchildren, at least.

Ja imam najmanje dvanaestoro unučadi.

I think I have 12, my wife knows.

Mislim da imam 12, ali to moja supruga bolje zna.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And I think I have eight children.

Mislim da imam osmoro dece.

It's about their future.

Moram misliti i na njih.

Every day I see my grandchildren, about the same age as these young girls,

Svakog dana vidim svoju unučad, otprilike su godišta ovih devojčica,

and I do wonder,

i zaista se pitam,

and I get angry sometimes, yes I do.

ponekad se i naljutim.

I wonder what is to become of them.

Šta će od njih postati?

And so it's about them

Zbog njih bi trebalo

that we should be telling everybody,

svako da zna

that it's not about their own national interest,

da se ne radi o nacionalnom interesu,

because climate change, regrettably, unfortunately,

jer klimatsku promenu, nažalost,

is viewed by many countries as a national problem. It's not.

mnoge zemlje smatraju nacionalnim problemom. A nije.

And this is the argument we got into recently with our partners,

Ovaj argument razmatramo od skoro sa našim partnerima

the Australians and New Zealanders,

iz Australije, sa Novog Zelanda,

because they said, "We can't cut any more."

jer oni ponavljaju: "Mi više ne možemo smanjiti emisije."

This is what one of the leaders, the Australian leader, said,

Jedan Australijski lider je rekao

that we've done our part, we are cutting back.

da su oni uradili svoj deo i time su završili.

I said, What about the rest? Why don't you keep it?

A šta je sa ostalima? Zašto oni ne nastave?

If you could keep the rest of your emissions

Kada biste zadržali ostatak emisija

within your boundaries, within your borders,

unutar vaših granica,

we'd have no question.

ne bismo postavljali pitanje.

You can go ahead as much as you like.

Onda napredujte koliko hoćete.

But unfortunately, you're sending it our way,

Nažalost, emisije šaljete prema nama,

and it's affecting the future of our children.

one utiču na budućnost naše dece.

And so surely I think that is the heart of the problem of climate change today.

Mislim da je to suština klimatske promene danas.

We will be meeting in Paris at the end of this year,

Krajem godine srešćemo se u Parizu,

but until we can think of this as a global phenomenon,

ali i do tada možemo razmišljati o ovoj globalnoj pojavi,

because we create it, individually, as nations,

jer ih mi stvaramo kao pojedinci, kao narodi,

but it affects everybody else,

ali ona utiče na svakog,

and yet, we refuse to do anything about it,

pa ipak odbijamo da uradimo nešto po tom pitanju,

and we deal with it as a national problem,

i smatramo da je to nacionalni problem,

which it is not -- it is a global issue,

ali nije, nego je globalni,

and it's got to be dealt with collectively.

i time se moramo baviti zajednički.

CA: People are incredibly bad at responding to graphs and numbers,

KA: Ljudi veoma loše reaguju na grafikone i brojke,

and we shut our minds to it.

zatvaramo oči pred time.

Somehow, to people, we're slightly better at responding to that sometimes.

Naše reagovanje na ljude je ponekad za nijansu bolje.

And it seems like it's very possible that your nation,

Izgleda da ste za vaš narod,

despite, actually because of the intense problems you face,

uprkos silnim problemima sa kojima se suočavate,

you may yet be the warning light to the world that shines most visibly,

lampica upozorenja svetu,

most powerfully.

najsjajnija, najmoćnija.

I just want to thank you, I'm sure, on behalf of all of us,

Želim da vam se zahvalim u ime svih nas,

for your extraordinary leadership and for being here.

za vaše izuzetno liderstvo i za to, što ste ovde.

Mr. President, thank you so much.

Gospodine Predsedniče, hvala vam.

AT: Thank you.

AT: Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)