Jason McCue: Terrorism is a failed brand

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Ivana Korom Lektor: Mile Živković

We most certainly do talk to terrorists, no question about it.

Mi definitivno razgovaramo sa teroristima, to nije sporno.

We are at war with a new form of terrorism.

U ratu smo sa novom vrstom terorizma.

It's sort of the good old, traditional form of terrorism,

To je verzija dobrog, starog, tradicionalnog oblika terorizma,

but it's sort of been packaged for the 21st century.

ali upakovana za 21. vek.

One of the big things about countering terrorism

Jedna od bitnijih stvari u borbi protiv terorizma

is, how do you perceive it?

je, kako ga mi uopšte doživljavamo?

Because perception leads to your response to it.

Upravo percepcija utiče na vaš odgovor na terorizam.

So if you have a traditional perception of terrorism,

Ako imate tradicionalno shvatanje terorizma,

it would be that it's one of criminality, one of war.

on bi se poistovećivao sa kriminalitetom, sa ratom.

So how are you going to respond to it?

Dakle, kako ćete da odgovorite na njega?

Naturally, it would follow that you meet kind with kind.

Prirodno bi bilo da uzvratite istom merom.

You fight it. If you have a more modernist approach,

Da se borite protiv njega. Ako imate savremeniji pristup,

and your perception of terrorism is almost cause-and-effect,

i vaše shvatanje terorizma je skoro uzrok-posledica,

then naturally from that, the responses that come out of it

onda iz toga sledi da su mere koje proizlaze iz toga

are much more asymmetrical.

mnogo više asimetrične.

We live in a modern, global world.

Živimo u modernom, globalnom svetu.

Terrorists have actually adapted to it.

Teroristi su se adaptirali na njega.

It's something we have to, too, and that means the people

To je nešto što i mi moramo da uradimo, a to znači da ljudi

who are working on counterterrorism responses

koji rade na protivterorističkim aktivnostima

have to start, in effect, putting on

moraju bukvalno početi da koriste

their Google-tinted glasses, or whatever.

savremene metode.

For my part, what I wanted us to do was just to look at

S moje strane, želeo sam da pogledam

terrorism as though it was a global brand,

terorizam kao da je globalni brend,

say, Coca-Cola.

recimo, Koka Kola.

Both are fairly bad for your health. (Laughter)

Oba su prilično loša po vaše zdravlje. (Smeh)

If you look at it as a brand in those ways,

Ako ga posmatrate kao brend na takav način,

what you'll come to realize is, it's a pretty flawed product.

ono što ćete shvatiti je, da je to faličan proizvod.

As we've said, it's pretty bad for your health,

Kao što smo rekli, prilično je loš po vaše zdravlje,

it's bad for those who it affects,

loš je po one na koje utiče,

and it's not actually good if you're a suicide bomber either.

a nije dobar po vas ni ako ste bombaš samoubica.

It doesn't actually do what it says on the tin.

Ne radi ono što obećava na pakovanju.

You're not really going to get 72 virgins in heaven.

Nećete zaista dobiti 72 device u raju.

It's not going to happen, I don't think.

To se neće desiti, ne verujem.

And you're not really going to, in the '80s, end capitalism

I nećete stvarno, u '80. da uništite kapitalizam

by supporting one of these groups. It's a load of nonsense.

podržavajući neku od ovih grupa. To je gomila besmislica.

But what you realize, it's got an Achilles' heel.

Ono što ćete shvatiti, je da ima Ahilovu petu.

The brand has an Achilles' heel.

Taj brend ima Ahilovu petu.

We've mentioned the health,

Pomenuli smo zdravlje,

but it needs consumers to buy into it.

ali mu trebaju potrošači da poveruju u njega.

The consumers it needs are the terrorist constituency.

Potrošači koji su mu potrebni su terorističke grupe.

They're the people who buy into the brand, support them,

Oni su ljudi koji veruju u brend, podržavaju ga,

facilitate them, and they're the people

snabdevaju ga i to su ljudi

we've got to reach out to.

kojima moramo da se približimo.

We've got to attack that brand in front of them.

Moramo da napadnemo brend ispred njih.

There's two essential ways of doing that, if we carry on this brand theme.

Postoje 2 suštinska načina da to izvedemo, ako nastavimo sa temom brenda.

One is reducing their market. What I mean is,

Prvi je da smanjimo njihovo tržište. To znači

it's their brand against our brand. We've got to compete.

da je naš brend protiv njihovog. Moramo da se takmičimo.

We've got to show we're a better product.

Moramo da pokažemo da smo bolji proizvod.

If I'm trying to show we're a better product,

Ako pokušavam da pokažem da smo bolji proizvod,

I probably wouldn't do things like Guantanamo Bay.

verovatno se neću baviti stvarima poput zatvora Gvantanamo.

We've talked there about curtailing the underlying need

Tamo smo pričali o suzbijanju osnovne potrebe

for the product itself. You could be looking there at

za samim proizvodom. Tamo možete da vidite

poverty, injustice, all those sorts of things

siromaštvo, nepravdu, sve te stvari

which feed terrorism.

koje hrane terorizam.

The other thing to do is to knock the product,

Druga stvar koja treba da se uradi je da se uzdrma proizvod,

attack the brand myth, as we've said.

da se napadne sam mit brenda, kao što smo rekli.

You know, there's nothing heroic about killing a young kid.

Znate, nema ničeg herojskog u ubijanju deteta.

Perhaps we need to focus on that and get that message back across.

Možda treba na to da se fokusiramo i da prenesemo tu poruku.

We've got to reveal the dangers in the product.

Moramo da otkrijemo opasnosti u proizvodu.

Our target audience, it's not just the producers of terrorism,

Naša ciljana publika nisu samo proizvođači terorizma,

as I've said, the terrorists.

kao što sam rekao, teroristi.

It's not just the marketeers of terrorism,

Nisu samo trgovci terorizmom,

which is those who finance, those who facilitate it,

a to su oni koji ga finansiraju, koji ga snabdevaju,

but it's the consumers of terrorism.

već korisnici terorizma.

We've got to get in to those homelands.

Moramo da se približimo tim državama.

That's where they recruit from. That's where they get their power and strength.

Tamo gde se regrutuju. Tamo gde dobijaju moć i snagu.

That's where their consumers come from.

Odatle njihovi korisnici dolaze.

And we have to get our messaging in there.

Mi moramo da pošaljemo našu poruku tamo.

So the essentials are, we've got to have interaction

Osnovne stvari su, moramo da imamo interakciju

in those areas, with the terrorists, the facilitators, etc.

u tim oblastima, sa teroristima, snabdevačima itd.

We've got to engage, we've got to educate,

Moramo da se angažujemo, moramo da edukujemo,

and we've got to have dialogue.

i moramo da imamo dijalog.

Now, staying on this brand thing for just a few more seconds,

Sada, ako pratimo ovu ideju brenda još nekoliko sekundi,

think about delivery mechanisms.

razmislite o sistemu dostavljanja.

How are we going to do these attacks?

Kako ćemo da izvedemo ove napade?

Well, reducing the market is really one for governments

Pa, smanjenje tržišta je mera vlada

and civil society. We've got to show we're better.

i civilnog društva. Moramo da pokažemo da smo bolji.

We've got to show our values.

Moramo da pokažemo naše vrednosti.

We've got to practice what we preach.

Moramo da praktikujemo ono što propovedamo.

But when it comes to knocking the brand,

Ali kada dođe do rušenja brenda,

if the terrorists are Coca-Cola and we're Pepsi,

ako su teroristi Koka Kola, a mi smo Pepsi,

I don't think, being Pepsi, anything we say about Coca-Cola,

ja mislim da, sve što kao Pepsi kažemo o Koka Koli,

anyone's going to believe us.

niko neće verovati.

So we've got to find a different mechanism,

Zato moramo da nađemo drugi mehanizam,

and one of the best mechanisms I've ever come across

a jedan od najboljih mehanizama na koje sam naišao

is the victims of terrorism.

su žrtve terorizma.

They are somebody who can actually stand there and say,

Oni su ti koji mogu zaista da stanu i kažu:

"This product's crap. I had it and I was sick for days.

"Ovaj proizvod je sranje. Uzeo sam ga i bio sam bolestan danima.

It burnt my hand, whatever." You believe them.

I opekao sam se, šta god." Vi im verujete.

You can see their scars. You trust them.

Možete da vidite njihove ožiljke. Imate poverenja u njih.

But whether it's victims, whether it's governments,

Bilo da su žrtve, bilo da su vlade,

NGOs, or even the Queen yesterday, in Northern Ireland,

nevladine organizacije, pa čak i kraljica juče, u Severnoj Irskoj,

we have to interact and engage with those different

moramo da sarađujemo sa tim različitim

layers of terrorism, and, in effect,

slojevima terorizma i zapravo,

we do have to have a little dance with the devil.

moramo da plešemo sa đavolom.

This is my favorite part of my speech.

Ovo je moj omiljeni deo govora.

I wanted to blow you all up to try and make a point,

Hteo sam sve da vas dignem u vazduh i istaknem poentu,

but — (Laughter) —

ali - (Smeh)

TED, for health and safety reasons, have told me

su mi u TED-u iz bezbednosnih i zdravstvenih razloga rekli

I've got to do a countdown, so

da moram da odbrojavam, tako da

I feel like a bit of an Irish or Jewish terrorist,

se osećam kao irski ili jevrejski terorista,

sort of a health and safety terrorist, and I — (Laughter) —

neka vrsta zdravstvenog i bezbednosnog teroriste, i ja - (Smeh)

I've got to count 3, 2, 1, and

moram da odbrojavam 3, 2, 1 i

it's a bit alarming, so thinking of what my motto would be,

malo je uznemiravajuće, zato razmišljajući šta bi bio moj moto,

and it would be, "Body parts, not heart attacks."

bio bi: "Delovi tela, ne srčani udari."

So 3, 2, 1. (Explosion sound)

Zato 3, 2, 1. (Zvuk eksplozije)

Very good. (Laughter)

Vrlo dobro. (Smeh)

Now, lady in 15J was a suicide bomber amongst us all.

Gospođa na mestu 15J je bombaš samoubica među nama.

We're all victims of terrorism.

Svi smo žrtve terorizma.

There's 625 of us in this room. We're going to be scarred for life.

Nas je 625 u prostoriji. Nosićemo ožiljke ceo život.

There was a father and a son who sat in that seat over there.

Otac i sin su sedeli na tom mestu tamo.

The son's dead. The father lives.

Sin je poginuo. Otac je živ.

The father will probably kick himself for years to come

Otac će verovatno godinama da se jede

that he didn't take that seat instead of his kid.

što nije seo na to mesto umesto svog deteta.

He's going to take to alcohol, and he's probably

Počeće da se opija i najverovatnije

going to kill himself in three years. That's the stats.

će se ubiti u roku od 3 godine. To je statistika.

There's a very young, attractive lady over here,

Jedna veoma mlada, atraktivna dama je bila ovde,

and she has something which I think's the worst form

i ona ima nešto za šta mislim da je najgori oblik

of psychological, physical injury I've ever seen

psihološke, fizičke povrede koju sam ikad video

out of a suicide bombing: It's human shrapnel.

kod bombaša samoubica: to je ljudski šrapnel.

What it means is, when she sat in a restaurant

To znači da, kada ona sedne u restoran,

in years to come, 10 years to come, 15 years to come,

u godima koje će doći, narednih 10, 15 godina,

or she's on the beach, every so often she's going to start

ili je na plaži, s vremena na vreme počeće

rubbing her skin, and out of there will come

da se češe i odatle će ispasti

a piece of that shrapnel.

komadić tog šrapnela.

And that is a hard thing for the head to take.

A to je jako komplikovano mozgu da shvati.

There's a lady over there as well who lost her legs

Tamo je žena koja je izgubila noge

in this bombing.

u ovom bombaškom napadu.

She's going to find out that she gets a pitiful amount

Ona će da otkrije da će dobiti bednu količinu

of money off our government

novca od naše vlade

for looking after what's happened to her.

na osnovu toga što joj se desilo.

She had a daughter who was going to go to one of the best

Imala je kćerku koja je trebalo da ide na jedan od najboljih univerziteta.

universities. She's going to give up university

Ona će da odustane od univerziteta

to look after Mum.

da bi se brinula o majci.

We're all here, and all of those who watch it

Svi smo ovde i svi koji gledaju

are going to be traumatized by this event,

će biti istraumirani ovim događajem,

but all of you here who are victims are going to learn

ali svi vi koji ste žrtve ćete naučiti

some hard truths.

neke teške istine.

That is, our society, we sympathize, but after a while,

A to je da naše društvo saoseća, ali posle nekog vremena,

we start to ignore. We don't do enough as a society.

počne da ignoriše. Mi ne činimo dovoljno kao zajednica.

We do not look after our victims, and we do not enable them,

Ne vodimo računa o žrtvama i ne omogućavamo im,

and what I'm going to try and show is that actually,

i ono što ću pokušati da pokažem je da su zapravo,

victims are the best weapon we have

žrtve najbolje oružje koje imamo

against more terrorism.

protiv još više terorizma.

How would the government at the turn of the millennium

Kakav pristup će imati vlada, na prekretnici milenijuma?

approach today? Well, we all know.

Pa, svi znamo.

What they'd have done then is an invasion.

Ono što bi oni uradili je invazija.

If the suicide bomber was from Wales,

Ako je bombaš samoubica iz Velsa,

good luck to Wales, I'd say.

doviđenja Vels, rekao bih.

Knee-jerk legislation, emergency provision legislation --

Ishitreni i zakoni u hitnim situacijama -

which hits at the very basis of our society, as we all know --

koji kao što znamo, udaraju u samu osnovu našeg društva -

it's a mistake.

su greška.

We're going to drive prejudice throughout Edinburgh,

Kroz Edinburg i Britaniju

throughout the U.K., for Welsh people.

ćemo promovisati predrasude o Velšanima.

Today's approach, governments have learned from their mistakes.

Današnji pristup su vlade naučile kroz svoje greške.

They are looking at what I've started off on,

Gledaju na ono od čega sam ja počeo,

on these more asymmetrical approaches to it,

na ove asimetričnije pristupe,

more modernist views, cause and effect.

modernije poglede, uzrok i posledicu.

But mistakes of the past are inevitable.

Ali greške prošlosti su neizbežne.

It's human nature.

To je ljudska priroda.

The fear and the pressure to do something on them

Strah i pritisak da se nešto učini biće preveliki.

is going to be immense. They are going to make mistakes.

Grešiće.

They're not just going to be smart.

Neće biti samo pametni.

There was a famous Irish terrorist who once summed up

Jedan poznati irski terorista

the point very beautifully. He said,

je to jednom divno sročio:

"The thing is, about the British government, is, is that it's got

"Stvar sa britanskim vladom je da mora stalno da ima sreće,

to be lucky all the time, and we only have to be lucky once."

a nama treba da se posreći samo jednom."

So what we need to do is we have to effect it.

Mi moramo da utičemo.

We've got to start thinking about being more proactive.

Da postanemo proaktivniji.

We need to build an arsenal of noncombative weapons

Da izgradimo arsenal neborbenog oružja

in this war on terrorism.

u ovom ratu protiv terorizma.

But of course, it's ideas -- is not something that governments do very well.

Ali naravno, to su ideje - ne nešto u čemu su vlade baš dobre.

I want to go back just to before the bang, to this idea of

Želim da se vratim neposredno pre eksplozije,

brand, and I was talking about Coke and Pepsi, etc.

na ideju brenda, govorio sam o Koka Koli i Pepsiju itd.

We see it as terrorism versus democracy in that brand war.

U tom ratu brendova mi to vidimo kao terorizam protiv demokratije.

They'll see it as freedom fighters and truth

Oni to vide kao borce za slobodu i istinu

against injustice, imperialism, etc.

protiv nepravde, imperijalizma itd.

We do have to see this as a deadly battlefield.

Moramo to shvatiti kao smrtonosno bojno polje.

It's not just [our] flesh and blood they want.

Oni ne žele samo našu krv.

They actually want our cultural souls, and that's why

Žele duše naše kulture, i zato je analogija

the brand analogy is a very interesting way of looking at this.

sa brendom veoma zanimljiv način posmatranja.

If we look at al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was essentially

Pogledajmo Al Kaidu koja je bila proizvod

a product on a shelf in a souk somewhere

negde na nekoj polici, na nekoj pijaci

which not many people had heard of.

za koju mnogi nisu čuli.

9/11 launched it. It was its big marketing day,

11. septembar ju je lansirao, bio je to veliki marketinški dan,

and it was packaged for the 21st century. They knew what they were doing.

i bila je upakovana za 21. vek. Znali su šta rade.

They were effectively [doing] something in this brand image

Oni su bukvalno

of creating a brand which can be franchised around

stvarali brend koji može da se proširi u svet

the world, where there's poverty, ignorance and injustice.

gde ima siromaštva, neznanja i nepravde.

We, as I've said, have got to hit that market,

Kao što sam rekao, moramo da izađemo na to tržište,

but we've got to use our heads rather than our might.

ali da koristimo um, pre nego snagu.

If we perceive it in this way as a brand, or other ways of thinking at it like this,

Ako to posmatramo kao brend ili na sličan način,

we will not resolve or counter terrorism.

nećemo razrešiti ili zaustaviti terorizam.

What I'd like to do is just briefly go through a few examples

Želim da ukratko predstavim primere iz svog posla

from my work on areas where we try and approach these things differently.

gde drugačije pristupamo ovim stvarima.

The first one has been dubbed "lawfare,"

Prvi je nazvan "zakonovanje",

for want of a better word.

u nedostatku bolje reči.

When we originally looked at bringing civil actions against terrorists,

Kad smo prvo razmišljali o građanskim parnicama protiv terorista,

everyone thought we were a bit mad and mavericks

svi su mislili da smo pomalo ludi ili drogirani.

and crackpots. Now it's got a title. Everyone's doing it.

To sad ima naziv. Svi to rade.

There's a bomb, people start suing.

Postoji bomba, ljudi počnu da tuže.

But one of the first early cases on this was the Omagh Bombing.

Ali jedan od ranih slučajeva ovoga je bila eksplozija u Omagu.

A civil action was brought from 1998.

Građanska parnica je doneta 1998.

In Omagh, bomb went off, Real IRA,

U Omagu je Prava IRA aktivirala bombu

middle of a peace process.

u sred mirovnog procesa.

That meant that the culprits couldn't really be prosecuted

To je značilo da počinitelji ne mogu da se gone,

for lots of reasons, mostly to do with the peace process

iz mnogo razloga, uglavnom zbog mirovnog procesa

and what was going on, the greater good.

i onoga što se dešavalo, zbog opšteg dobra.

It also meant, then, if you can imagine this,

To je takođe značilo, ako možete da zamislite,

that the people who bombed your children

da su ljudi koji su bacili bombu na vašu decu

and your husbands were walking around the supermarket

i vaše muževe, šetali supermarketom

that you lived in.

u kom vi živite.

Some of those victims said enough is enough.

Neke od žrtava su rekle da je dosta.

We brought a private action, and thank God, 10 years later,

Pokrenuli smo privatnu parnicu, i hvala bogu, 10 godina kasnije,

we actually won it. There is a slight appeal on

dobili smo je. U toku je mala žalba,

at the moment so I have to be a bit careful,

pa moram da budem oprezan,

but I'm fairly confident.

ali prilično sam siguran.

Why was it effective?

Zašto je bilo učinkovito?

It was effective not just because justice was seen to be done

Ne samo zato što je učinjena pravda

where there was a huge void.

tamo gde je bila velika praznina.

It was because the Real IRA and other terrorist groups,

Nego i zato što je snaga Prave IRA i drugih terorističkih grupa

their whole strength is from the fact that they are

u činjenici da su gubitnici.

an underdog. When we put the victims as the underdog

Kada smo žrtve predstavili kao gubitnike, obrnuli situaciju,

and flipped it, they didn't know what to do.

nisu znali šta da rade.

They were embarrassed. Their recruitment went down.

Bili su osramoćeni. Regrutacija im je opala.

The bombs actually stopped -- fact -- because of this action.

Bombe su prestale zbog ove akcije, to je činjenica.

We became, or those victims became, more importantly,

Postali smo, žrtve su postale, što je važnije,

a ghost that haunted the terrorist organization.

duh koji je pohodio terorističku organizaciju.

There's other examples. We have a case called Almog

Ima još primera. Imamo slučaj Almog,

which is to do with a bank that was,

što ima veze sa bankom koja je,

allegedly, from our point of view,

navodno, iz naše perspektive,

giving rewards to suicide bombers.

nagrađivala bombaše samoubice.

Just by bringing the very action,

Sprovođenjem akcije,

that bank has stopped doing it, and indeed,

banka je prestala sa tim i zaista,

the powers that be around the world, which for real politic

moćnici širom sveta, koji zbog političkih razloga

reasons before, couldn't actually deal with this issue,

ranije nisu mogli da se bave ovim problemom,

because there was lots of competing interests,

jer je bilo mnogo sukobljenih interesa,

have actually closed down those loopholes in the banking system.

zatvorili su te rupe u bankarskom sistemu.

There's another case called the McDonald case,

Postoji još jedan slučaj, Mekdonald slučaj,

where some victims of Semtex, of the Provisional IRA bombings,

gde su neke od žrtava Semteksa, napada privremene IRA-e

which were supplied by Gaddafi, sued,

koje je pomogao Gadafi, tužile,

and that action has led to amazing things for new Libya.

i ta akcija je dovela do izuzetnih stvari za novu Libiju.

New Libya has been compassionate towards those victims,

Nova Libija je saosećala sa tim žrtvama

and started taking it -- so it started a whole new dialogue there.

što je započelo potpuno nov dijalog tamo.

But the problem is, we need more and more support

Problem je što nam je potrebno sve više podrške

for these ideas and cases.

za ove ideje i slučajeve.

Civil affairs and civil society initiatives.

Inicijative civilnog društva i mirovnih snaga.

A good one is in Somalia. There's a war on piracy.

Dobar primer je Somalija. Tamo je u toku rat protiv pirata.

If anyone thinks you can have a war on piracy

Ako mislite da taj rat možete voditi kao rat protiv terorizma

like a war on terrorism and beat it, you're wrong.

i dobiti ga, varate se.

What we're trying to do there is turn pirates to fisherman.

Mi pokušavamo da pirate preobratimo u ribolovce.

They used to be fisherman, of course,

Oni su, naravno, to i bili,

but we stole their fish and dumped a load of toxic waste

ali mi smo im ukrali ribu i bacili gomilu otrovnog otpada

in their water, so what we're trying to do is create

u njihove vode, pa pokušavamo da stvorimo

security and employment by bringing a coastguard

sigurnost i zaposlenost, dovodeći obalsku stražu

along with the fisheries industry, and I can guarantee you,

zajedno sa ribolovnom industrijom, i garantujem vam,

as that builds, al Shabaab and such likes will not have

dok se to dešava, al Šabab i slični

the poverty and injustice any longer to prey on those people.

neće moći siromaštvom i nepravdom da privlače ljude.

These initiatives cost less than a missile,

Ove inicijative koštaju manje od projektila

and certainly less than any soldier's life,

i sigurno manje od života jednog vojnika,

but more importantly, it takes the war to their homelands,

ali sto je važnije, prenosi rat na njihovu teritoriju,

and not onto our shore,

a ne na našu,

and we're looking at the causes.

a mi tražimo uzroke.

The last one I wanted to talk about was dialogue.

Poslednje o čemu sam želeo da govorim je dijalog.

The advantages of dialogue are obvious.

Njegove prednosti su očigledne.

It self-educates both sides, enables a better understanding,

Edukuje obe strane, omogućava bolje razumevanje,

reveals the strengths and weaknesses,

otkriva snage i slabosti,

and yes, like some of the speakers before,

i da, kao i neki prethodni govornici,

the shared vulnerability does lead to trust, and

podeljena osetljivost vodi poverenju

it does then become, that process, part of normalization.

i taj proces onda postaje deo normalizacije.

But it's not an easy road. After the bomb,

Ali to nije jednostavan put. Posle bombe,

the victims are not into this.

žrtvama nije do ovoga.

There's practical problems.

Postoje praktični problemi.

It's politically risky for the protagonists

Politički je rizično za protagoniste

and for the interlocutors. On one occasion

i učesnike u dijalogu.

I was doing it, every time I did a point that they didn't like,

Jednom prilikom, kad bih istakao nešto što im se nije dopalo,

they actually threw stones at me,

stvarno su me gađali kamenjem,

and when I did a point they liked,

a kada im se nešto što sam rekao dopalo,

they starting shooting in the air, equally not great. (Laughter)

počeli bi da pucaju u vazduh, što takođe nije bilo sjajno. (Smeh)

Whatever the point, it gets to the heart of the problem,

Šta god da je u pitanju, pogađa srce problema,

you're doing it, you're talking to them.

vi to radite, pričate sa njima.

Now, I just want to end with saying, if we follow reason,

Želim da završim mišlju da, ako pratimo razum,

we realize that I think we'd all say that we want to

mislim da bismo svi rekli da želimo

have a perception of terrorism which is not just a pure

da imamo percepciju o terorizmu

military perception of it.

koja nije samo vojna.

We need to foster more

Moramo da stvorimo

modern and asymmetrical responses to it.

modernije i asimetrične odgovore na terorizam.

This isn't about being soft on terrorism.

Ne radi se o tome da budemo blagi prema terorizmu.

It's about fighting them on contemporary battlefields.

Nego o tome da se borimo na savremenim bojnim poljima.

We must foster innovation, as I've said.

Kao što sam rekao, moramo da podstičemo inovacije.

Governments are receptive. It won't come from those dusty corridors.

Vlade su prihvatajuće i to od njih neće doći.

The private sector has a role.

Privatni sektor ima ulogu.

The role we could do right now is going away

Ono što odmah možemo da uradimo je da odemo

and looking at how we can support victims around the world

i vidimo kako da podržimo žrtve širom sveta

to bring initiatives.

da započnu inicijative.

If I was to leave you with some big questions here which

Ako bih želeo da vas ostavim sa nekim velikim pitanjima

may change one's perception to it, and who knows what

koja mogu promeniti shvatanje, a ko zna kakve

thoughts and responses will come out of it,

misli i odgovori će proizaći iz toga,

but did myself and my terrorist group actually need

da li je bilo potrebno da vas ja

to blow you up to make our point?

i moja teroristička grupa raznesemo, da bismo dokazali poentu?

We have to ask ourselves these questions, however unpalatable.

Moramo sebi postaviti ova pitanja, koliko god da su neprijatna.

Have we been ignoring an injustice or a humanitarian

Da li negde u svetu ignorišemo

struggle somewhere in the world?

nepravdu ili humanitarnu borbu?

What if, actually, engagement on poverty and injustice

Šta je ako je, u stvari, hvatanje u koštac sa siromaštvom

is exactly what the terrorists wanted us to do?

i nepravdom upravo ono što teroristi žele da radimo?

What if the bombs are just simply wake-up calls for us?

Šta ako su bombe poziv da se probudimo?

What happens if that bomb went off

Šta se dešava ako je ta bomba eksplodirala

because we didn't have any thoughts and things in place

jer nemamo nikakve misli ili procedure

to allow dialogue to deal with these things and interaction?

da dozvolimo dijalog koji se bavi ovim stvarima i interakcijom?

What is definitely uncontroversial

Ono što je nekontroverzno je,

is that, as I've said, we've got to stop being reactive,

kao što sam rekao, moramo da prestanemo da budemo reaktivni

and more proactive, and I just want to leave you

a postanemo proaktivni, i želim da vas ostavim

with one idea, which is that

sa jednom idejom, a to je

it's a provocative question for you to think about,

da razmišljate o jednom provokativnom pitanju,

and the answer will require sympathy with the devil.

a odgovor će zahtevati udruživanje sa đavolom.

It's a question that's been tackled by many great thinkers

O tom pitanju mislili su mnogi veliki mislioci i pisci:

and writers: What if society actually needs crisis to change?

šta ako je društvu potrebna kriza, da bi se promenilo?

What if society actually needs terrorism

Šta ako mu je potreban terorizam

to change and adapt for the better?

da bi se promenilo i prilagodilo boljem?

It's those Bulgakov themes, it's that picture of Jesus

To su one bulgakovljevske teme, ona slika Isusa

and the Devil hand in hand in Gethsemane

i Đavola kako ruku pod ruku u getsemanskom vrtu

walking into the moonlight.

šetaju po mesečini.

What it would mean is that humans,

To bi značilo da svi ljudi,

in order to survive in development,

da bi preživeli razvoj,

quite Darwinian spirit here,

u darvinovskom duhu,

inherently must dance with the devil.

u suštini moraju da zaigraju sa đavolom.

A lot of people say that communism was defeated

Mnogi ljudi kažu da su komunizam

by the Rolling Stones. It's a good theory.

pobedili Roling Stonsi. Dobra teorija.

Maybe the Rolling Stones has a place in this.

Možda imaju ulogu i ovde.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Music) (Applause)

(Muzika) (Aplauz)

Bruno Giussani: Thank you. (Applause)

Bruno Đuzani: Hvala vam. (Aplauz)