Jason McCue: Terrorism is a failed brand

48,145 views ・ 2012-10-03

TED


μ•„λž˜ μ˜λ¬Έμžλ§‰μ„ λ”λΈ”ν΄λ¦­ν•˜μ‹œλ©΄ μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.

00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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λ²ˆμ—­: Yunhi Maeng κ²€ν† : Sang Ji Kim
00:15
We most certainly do talk to terrorists, no question about it.
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우린 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈλ“€μ— λŒ€ν•΄ λΆ„λͺ…νžˆ λ§Žμ€ 이야기λ₯Ό λ‚˜λˆ•λ‹ˆλ‹€
00:20
We are at war with a new form of terrorism.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ§žμ„œμ•Ό ν•  μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ€
00:26
It's sort of the good old, traditional form of terrorism,
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ꡬ관이 λͺ…관이듯, 전톡적인 λ°©μ‹μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:30
but it's sort of been packaged for the 21st century.
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이것이 21세기에 맞게 λ³€ν˜•λœ 것이죠.
00:33
One of the big things about countering terrorism
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ— λŒ€μ²˜ν•˜λŠ” μ€‘μš”ν•œ 것은 λ°”λ‘œ
00:37
is, how do you perceive it?
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그것을 μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜λŠλƒ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:41
Because perception leads to your response to it.
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이해가 따라 μ—¬λŸ¬ λ°˜μ‘μ΄ λ‚˜μ˜€κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:44
So if you have a traditional perception of terrorism,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ„ 전톡적인 κ°œλ…μœΌλ‘œ 보면,
00:48
it would be that it's one of criminality, one of war.
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그것은 범죄 ν˜Ήμ€ μ „μŸ 일 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:52
So how are you going to respond to it?
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이럴 λ•Œ, μ–΄λ–€ λ°˜μ‘μ΄ λ‚˜μ˜¬κΉŒμš”?
00:54
Naturally, it would follow that you meet kind with kind.
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μžμ—°νžˆ, μ΄μ—λŠ” 이, λˆˆμ—λŠ” 눈 방식이 되겠죠.
00:58
You fight it. If you have a more modernist approach,
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보닀 ν˜„λŒ€μ  접근을 ν•œλ‹€λ©΄, 그것에 λŒ€μ²˜ν•˜λŠ” 것이 되겠죠.
01:01
and your perception of terrorism is almost cause-and-effect,
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 보톡 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό 원인과 결과의 κ΄€κ³„λ‘œ μ΄ν•΄ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:06
then naturally from that, the responses that come out of it
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그리고 λ‹Ήμ—°νžˆ κ·Έ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ λΆ€ν„° λ‚˜μ˜€λŠ” λ°˜μ‘μ€
01:10
are much more asymmetrical.
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λˆˆμ—λŠ” 눈이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ, 훨씬 더 λΉ„λŒ€μΉ­μ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:13
We live in a modern, global world.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” ν˜„λŒ€ν™”λœ κ΅­μ œμ‚¬νšŒμ— μ‚΄κ³  있으며,
01:17
Terrorists have actually adapted to it.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€ν‹€μ€ 그것에 적응해 μ™”κ³ ,
01:21
It's something we have to, too, and that means the people
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적응은 우리 μ—­μ‹œ ν•΄μ•Όν•˜λŠ” μΌμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:25
who are working on counterterrorism responses
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그리고 그것은 λ°˜ν…ŒλŸ¬ λŒ€μ‘μ„ ν•˜λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄
01:28
have to start, in effect, putting on
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μ΅œμ²¨λ‹¨ κΈ°κΈ°κ°€ μž₯착된 μ•ˆκ²½μ„ μ“°λ“  μ–΄μ¨Œλ“  간에
01:31
their Google-tinted glasses, or whatever.
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효과적으둜 λŒ€μ‘ν•΄μ•Ό 함을 λœ»ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€
01:35
For my part, what I wanted us to do was just to look at
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μ €μ˜ λ°”λž¨μ€ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ„ κΈ€λ‘œλ²Œ λΈŒλžœλ“œλ‘œ
01:40
terrorism as though it was a global brand,
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λ³΄λΌλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:43
say, Coca-Cola.
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μ½”μΉ΄μ½œλΌ 처럼 λ§μ΄μ§€μš”.
01:45
Both are fairly bad for your health. (Laughter)
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λ‘˜ λ‹€ 건강에 μ•ˆμ’‹μ€ κ²ƒμ΄μ§€μš”(μ›ƒμŒ)
01:51
If you look at it as a brand in those ways,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό μš”μ¦˜μ˜ λΈŒλžœλ“œλ‘œ λ³Έλ‹€λ©΄
01:55
what you'll come to realize is, it's a pretty flawed product.
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κ½€ λ¬Έμ œκ°€ μžˆλŠ” μ œν’ˆμ΄λž€ κ±Έ μ•Œκ²Œ 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€
01:58
As we've said, it's pretty bad for your health,
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λ§ν–ˆλ‹€ μ‹œν”Ό 우리 건강에 μ•„μ£Ό λ‚˜μœ 것이죠.
02:01
it's bad for those who it affects,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό λ‹Ήν•˜λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ—κ²Œ λ‚˜μ  뿐만 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ
02:03
and it's not actually good if you're a suicide bomber either.
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사싀 μžμ‚΄ν­νƒ„ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ²”μ—κ²Œλ„ 쒋을 건 μ—†μ§€μš”.
02:06
It doesn't actually do what it says on the tin.
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그것이 μ‹€μ œλ‘œ 말처럼 그리 μ‰¬μš΄ 것은 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:10
You're not really going to get 72 virgins in heaven.
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이슬람 ꡐ도가 μˆœκ΅ν•˜λ©΄ μ²œκ΅­μ— κ°€μ„œ μ •λ§λ‘œ 72λͺ…μ˜
02:15
It's not going to happen, I don't think.
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μ²˜λ…€μ™€ μ‚΄ 수 μžˆλ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν•˜μ§€λŠ” μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:17
And you're not really going to, in the '80s, end capitalism
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이런 단체λ₯Ό μ§€μ§€ν•΄μ„œ 자본주의λ₯Ό λ¬΄λ„ˆλœ¨λ¦¬κ³ 
02:21
by supporting one of these groups. It's a load of nonsense.
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80λ…„λŒ€λ‘œ λŒμ•„ κ°€μ§€λŠ” μ•Šκ² μ£ . 정말 λ„Œμ„ΌμŠ€μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:24
But what you realize, it's got an Achilles' heel.
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ 그것이 약점을 κ°€μ‘Œλ‹€λŠ” 것을 μ•Œμ•„μ•Ό ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€
02:28
The brand has an Achilles' heel.
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λΈŒλžœλ“œλ„ μ—­μ‹œ 약점을 가지고 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:30
We've mentioned the health,
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μ•žμ—μ„œ 건강을 μ–ΈκΈ‰ν–ˆλ“―μ΄,
02:32
but it needs consumers to buy into it.
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μ†ŒλΉ„μžκ°€ μ œν’ˆμ„ 믿도둝 λ§Œλ“€μ–΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€
02:36
The consumers it needs are the terrorist constituency.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λΌλŠ” μ œν’ˆμ˜ μ†ŒλΉ„μžλŠ” κ·Έκ²ƒμ˜ ν›„μ›μžμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:40
They're the people who buy into the brand, support them,
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그듀은 λΈŒλžœλ“œλ₯Ό λ―Ώκ³  μ§€μ§€ν•˜κ³ , λ•λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:43
facilitate them, and they're the people
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그리고 그듀이 λ°”λ‘œ
02:46
we've got to reach out to.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 관심을 보여야 ν•˜λŠ” λŒ€μƒμΈ κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:48
We've got to attack that brand in front of them.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” κ·Έλ“€μ˜ λ©΄μ „μ—μ„œ λΈŒλžœλ“œλ₯Ό 곡격해야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€
02:51
There's two essential ways of doing that, if we carry on this brand theme.
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μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ ν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•œ λ‘κ°€μ§€μ˜ μ€‘μš”ν•œ 방법이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€
02:55
One is reducing their market. What I mean is,
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μ²«λ²ˆμ§ΈλŠ” κ·Έλ“€μ˜ μ‹œμž₯을 μ’νžˆλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:59
it's their brand against our brand. We've got to compete.
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우리 λΈŒλžœλ“œμ— λŒ€ν•œ κ·Έλ“€ λΈŒλžœλ“œμ™€μ˜ κ²½μŸμ—μ„œ 이겨야 ν•œλ‹€λŠ” μ˜λ―Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:04
We've got to show we're a better product.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 더 λ‚˜μ€ μ œν’ˆμ„ 가지고 μžˆμŒμ„ 보여 μ£Όμ–΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€
03:06
If I'm trying to show we're a better product,
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μ œκ°€ 더 λ‚˜μ€ μ œν’ˆμ„ ν™λ³΄ν•˜κ³ μž ν• λ•Œ,
03:09
I probably wouldn't do things like Guantanamo Bay.
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κ΄€νƒ€λ‚˜λͺ¨ 미해ꡰ기지λ₯Ό λ³΄μ—¬μ£Όμ§€λŠ” μ•Šκ² μ£ .
03:14
We've talked there about curtailing the underlying need
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μ œν’ˆ 자체의 근본적 μš”μ†Œλ₯Ό μ€„μ΄λŠ” 것에 λŒ€ν•΄
03:18
for the product itself. You could be looking there at
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μ–˜κΈ°ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. 이것은 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ„ μ‘°μž₯ν•˜λŠ”
03:21
poverty, injustice, all those sorts of things
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κ°€λ‚œ, 뢈의, 이런 λ₯˜μ˜ 것듀을 쀄여야 함을
03:25
which feed terrorism.
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μ˜λ―Έν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:26
The other thing to do is to knock the product,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λΌλŠ” μ œν’ˆμ„ λ¬΄λ„ˆλœ¨λ¦΄ 수 μžˆλ„λ‘ λ‘λ²ˆμ§Έλ‘œ 해야할것은
03:30
attack the brand myth, as we've said.
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μ•μ—μ„œλ„ λ§ν–ˆλ“―μ΄, κ·Έ λ―ΏμŒμ„ 곡격해야 ν•©λ‚˜λ‹€.
03:32
You know, there's nothing heroic about killing a young kid.
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μ–΄λ¦° 아이λ₯Ό μ£½μ΄λŠ” 것이 μ ˆλŒ€λ‘œ μ˜μ›…μ μΈ 일 일 수 μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. .
03:36
Perhaps we need to focus on that and get that message back across.
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그것에 집쀑 ν•˜κ³  κ·Έ λ©”μ‹œμ§€λ₯Ό 전역에 μ•Œλ €μ•Ό ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:40
We've got to reveal the dangers in the product.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ œν’ˆμ˜ μœ„ν—˜μ„ μ•Œλ €μ•Ό ν•˜λ©°,
03:43
Our target audience, it's not just the producers of terrorism,
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이것을 μ•Œλ¦΄ 우리의 λͺ©ν‘œ 고객은
03:47
as I've said, the terrorists.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ 직접 μƒμ‚°μžμΈ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈ,
03:48
It's not just the marketeers of terrorism,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό μ£Όλ™ν•˜κ³  μžκΈˆμ„ λŒ€λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€
03:51
which is those who finance, those who facilitate it,
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뿐만 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ, μ•žμ„œ μ–˜κΈ°ν–ˆλ“―μ΄,
03:55
but it's the consumers of terrorism.
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λ°”λ‘œ ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ μ†ŒλΉ„μžμΈ κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:57
We've got to get in to those homelands.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ λ³Έκ±°μ§€λ‘œ λ“€μ–΄ κ°€μ•Όν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:01
That's where they recruit from. That's where they get their power and strength.
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그곳이 λ°”λ‘œ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈλ“€μ΄ λͺ¨μ§‘λ˜κ³ , 그듀이 ꢌλ ₯κ³Ό νž˜μ„ μ–»λŠ” κ³³μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:04
That's where their consumers come from.
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κ·Έλ“€μ˜ μ†ŒλΉ„μžκ°€ μžˆλŠ” 곳이죠.
04:06
And we have to get our messaging in there.
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거기에 우리의 λ©”μ‹œμ§€λ₯Ό μ „ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:10
So the essentials are, we've got to have interaction
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이λ₯Ό μœ„ν•œ ν•„μˆ˜ μš”μ†ŒλŠ” ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈλ‚˜ κ·Έ μ£Όλ™μžλ“€κ³Ό
04:14
in those areas, with the terrorists, the facilitators, etc.
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그런 μ§€μ—­μ—μ„œ λŒ€ν™”ν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:17
We've got to engage, we've got to educate,
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직접 μ°Έμ—¬ν•˜μ—¬, 그듀을 κ΅μœ‘ν•˜κ³ ,
04:21
and we've got to have dialogue.
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κ·Έλ“€κ³Ό λŒ€ν™”ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:23
Now, staying on this brand thing for just a few more seconds,
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쑰금만 더 이 λΈŒλžœλ“œμ— λŒ€ν•΄ μ–˜κΈ°ν•˜κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:28
think about delivery mechanisms.
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배달 λ©”μ»€λ‹ˆμ¦˜μ— λŒ€ν•΄ 생각해 λ΄…μ‹œλ‹€.
04:31
How are we going to do these attacks?
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μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μ΄λŸ¬ν•œ 곡격을 ν•΄μ•Ό ν• κΉŒμš”?
04:32
Well, reducing the market is really one for governments
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μ‹œμž₯을 μΆ•μ†Œμ‹œν‚¨λ‹€λŠ” 것은 사싀 정뢀와 λ―Όκ°„ λ‹¨μ²΄μ˜ λͺ«μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:35
and civil society. We've got to show we're better.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 더 μ˜³λ‹€λŠ” 것을 보여 μ€˜μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:39
We've got to show our values.
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우리의 κ°€μΉ˜λ₯Ό 보여 μ€˜μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:43
We've got to practice what we preach.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ‚΄μ„Έμš°λŠ” 것을 μ‹€ν–‰ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:45
But when it comes to knocking the brand,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ ν…ŒλŸ¬λΌλŠ” λΈŒλžœλ“œλ₯Ό λ¬΄λ„ˆλœ¨λ¦¬λŠ” 것에 μžˆμ–΄μ„œλŠ”
04:47
if the terrorists are Coca-Cola and we're Pepsi,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈκ°€ μ½”μΉ΄μ½œλΌλΌλ©΄, μš°λ¦¬λŠ” νŽ©μ‹œμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:52
I don't think, being Pepsi, anything we say about Coca-Cola,
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νŽ©μ‹œκ°€ μ½”μΉ΄μ½œλΌμ— λŒ€ν•΄ ν•˜λŠ” 말을
04:56
anyone's going to believe us.
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아무도 믿을 것 같지 μ•Šκ΅°μš”.
04:58
So we've got to find a different mechanism,
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ λ‹€λ₯Έ λ©”μΉ΄λ‹ˆμ¦˜μ„ μ°Ύμ•„μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:00
and one of the best mechanisms I've ever come across
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λ– μ˜€λ₯΄λŠ” κ°€μž₯ 쒋은 λ©”μΉ΄λ‹ˆμ¦˜μ€
05:02
is the victims of terrorism.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ ν”Όν•΄μžμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:05
They are somebody who can actually stand there and say,
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그듀은 μ‹€μ œλ‘œ κ±°κΈ° μ„œμ„œ μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ 말 ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:08
"This product's crap. I had it and I was sick for days.
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"이 μ œν’ˆμ€ μ“°λ ˆκΈ°μ•Ό. μ•„κ±° λ¨Ήκ³  λ©°μΉ μ΄λ‚˜ μ•“μ•˜μ–΄.
05:12
It burnt my hand, whatever." You believe them.
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ν˜Ήμ€ 이 물건 λ•Œλ¬Έμ— 손에 화상을 μž…μ—ˆμ–΄."
05:16
You can see their scars. You trust them.
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μƒμ²˜λ₯Ό 보며 κ·Έ 말을 λ―Ώκ³  그듀을 μ‹ λ’°ν•˜κ²Œ λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:19
But whether it's victims, whether it's governments,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ ν”Όν•΄μžλ“ , ν˜Ήμ€ μ •λΆ€, λΉ„μ •λΆ€ 기ꡬ,
05:24
NGOs, or even the Queen yesterday, in Northern Ireland,
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μ–΄μ œ λΆμ•„μΌλžœλ“œμ— κ°”λ˜ 여왕이든지, λˆ„κ΅°κ°€λŠ”
05:29
we have to interact and engage with those different
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ν™œλ™μ€‘μΈ μ—¬λŸ¬ ν…ŒλŸ¬ 단체와 λŒ€ν™”ν•΄μ„œ
05:34
layers of terrorism, and, in effect,
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ν•„μš”ν•˜λ‹€λ©΄
05:38
we do have to have a little dance with the devil.
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κ·Έλ“€κ³Ό 손도 μž‘μ„ 수 μžˆμ–΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:42
This is my favorite part of my speech.
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제 연섀쀑 제일 μ’‹μ•„ν•˜λŠ” λΆ€λΆ„μΈλ°μš”.
05:45
I wanted to blow you all up to try and make a point,
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ν•œ μ˜ˆμ—μ„œ, μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ„ ν­νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ λ‚ λ € λ²„λ¦¬κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:48
but β€” (Laughter) β€”
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이해해 μ£Όμ„Έμš”. -(μ›ƒμŒ) β€”
05:52
TED, for health and safety reasons, have told me
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"ν…Œλ“œκ°€ μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ˜ 건강과 μ•ˆμ „ 이유λ₯Ό μœ„ν•΄
05:55
I've got to do a countdown, so
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카운트 λ‹€μš΄μ„ ν•΄μ•Όλœλ°μš”.
05:56
I feel like a bit of an Irish or Jewish terrorist,
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μ €λŠ” μ•„λ§ˆ μ•„μΌλžœλ“œ μœ λŒ€μΈ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈκ°€ 그럴 κΊΌμ—μš”.
06:00
sort of a health and safety terrorist, and I β€” (Laughter) β€”
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μΌμ’…μ˜ 건강 및 μ•ˆμ „ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈμš”. -(μ›ƒμŒ) β€”
06:05
I've got to count 3, 2, 1, and
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3, 2, 1, 이라고 μ…€κ»˜μš”.
06:08
it's a bit alarming, so thinking of what my motto would be,
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λ„ˆλ¬΄ μœ„κΈ‰ν•œ 일이라, 제 쒌우λͺ…을 μƒκ°ν•΄λ³΄λ‹ˆκΉŒ,
06:12
and it would be, "Body parts, not heart attacks."
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그게 '심μž₯ λ°œμž‘μ΄ μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ, λͺΈ 바쳐 죽자' κ±°λ“ μš”.
06:15
So 3, 2, 1. (Explosion sound)
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ 3, 2, 1." (폭발 μ†Œλ¦¬)
06:20
Very good. (Laughter)
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λ°”λ‘œ 이런 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. (μ›ƒμŒ)
06:25
Now, lady in 15J was a suicide bomber amongst us all.
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μ§€κΈˆ 15j μ’Œμ„μ˜ ν•œ 여성이 μžμ‚΄ 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό ν•œ κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:33
We're all victims of terrorism.
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우리 λͺ¨λ‘κ°€ ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ ν”Όν•΄μžμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:35
There's 625 of us in this room. We're going to be scarred for life.
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이 방에 625λͺ…이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. λͺ¨λ‘μ˜ 인생에 μƒμ²˜κ°€ 남겠죠..
06:40
There was a father and a son who sat in that seat over there.
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아버지와 아듀이 μ € μžλ¦¬μ— 앉아 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:44
The son's dead. The father lives.
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아듀은 μ£½κ³ , μ•„λ²„μ§€λŠ” μ‚΄μ•„ λ‚¨μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:46
The father will probably kick himself for years to come
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μ•„λ²„μ§€λŠ” λͺ‡ λ…„ λ™μ•ˆ, μ•„λ“€μ˜ μ’Œμ„μ— λŒ€μ‹  앉지 μ•Šμ•˜λ˜
06:52
that he didn't take that seat instead of his kid.
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운λͺ…을 ν•œνƒ„ ν•˜λ©° μ‚΄μ•„κ°ˆ κ²ƒμž„λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:57
He's going to take to alcohol, and he's probably
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κ·ΈλŠ” μ•Œμ½”μ˜¬ μ€‘λ…μžκ°€ λ˜μ–΄,
06:59
going to kill himself in three years. That's the stats.
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μ•„λ§ˆ 3 λ…„μ•ˆμ— μ£½κ³  말겠죠. 톡계가 κ·Έλ ‡μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:03
There's a very young, attractive lady over here,
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젊고 맀λ ₯적인 ν•œ μ—¬μžλΆ„μ΄ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:07
and she has something which I think's the worst form
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” μ œκ°€ μ—¬νƒœκ» λ³΄μ•„μ˜¨ μžμ‚΄ 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜
07:10
of psychological, physical injury I've ever seen
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μ΅œμ•…μ˜ ν˜•νƒœμ˜ 심리적, 신체적 상해λ₯Ό μž…μ€
07:13
out of a suicide bombing: It's human shrapnel.
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λΆ„μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€ : 인간 νŒŒνŽΈμ— μ˜ν•΄ κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ 된 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:16
What it means is, when she sat in a restaurant
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10λ…„, 15년이 μ§€λ‚˜λ„ 맀번 κ·Έλ…€κ°€
07:18
in years to come, 10 years to come, 15 years to come,
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식당에 앉아 μžˆμ„ λ•Œλ‚˜, 해변에 읹아 μžˆμ„λ•Œ,
07:21
or she's on the beach, every so often she's going to start
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μžμ‹ μ˜ 살갗을 문지λ₯΄κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:24
rubbing her skin, and out of there will come
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파편으둜 λ‚ μ•„μ˜€λŠ” 살점을
07:27
a piece of that shrapnel.
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λ–Όμ–΄λ‚΄λ €λŠ” 듯이.
07:29
And that is a hard thing for the head to take.
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이런 κ²½ν—˜μ€ 받아듀이기 νž˜λ“  것 μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:34
There's a lady over there as well who lost her legs
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이 ν­νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ 닀리λ₯Ό μžƒμ€ ν•œ 여성이 μžˆμ„ μˆ˜λ„
07:37
in this bombing.
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μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:41
She's going to find out that she gets a pitiful amount
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κ·Έλ…€κ°€ λ‹Ήν•œ 일을 μœ„λ‘œν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•΄
07:45
of money off our government
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우리 μ •λΆ€μ—μ„œ μ£ΌλŠ” μœ„λ‘œκΈˆμ„
07:49
for looking after what's happened to her.
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λ°›κ²Œ 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:52
She had a daughter who was going to go to one of the best
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” λͺ…λ¬Έ λŒ€ν•™μ— λ‹€λ‹ˆλŠ” 딸이 있으며,
07:54
universities. She's going to give up university
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κ·Έ 딸은 λŒ€ν•™μ„ ν¬κΈ°ν•˜κ³  μ—„λ§ˆλ₯Ό 돌보렀
07:57
to look after Mum.
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ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:01
We're all here, and all of those who watch it
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여기에 있던 우리 λͺ¨λ‘λŠ” μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λͺ©κ²©ν–ˆλ˜
08:03
are going to be traumatized by this event,
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사건을 μ§€μšΈ 수 μ—†λŠ” μƒμ²˜λ‘œ κ°–κ²Œ 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:06
but all of you here who are victims are going to learn
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„ λͺ¨λ‘ μ—¬κΈ° ν”Όν•΄μžλŠ” μ–΄λ €μš΄ ν•œ 진싀을
08:09
some hard truths.
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μ•Œκ²Œ 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:11
That is, our society, we sympathize, but after a while,
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그것은 μ²˜μŒμ—” λ™μ •ν•˜λ˜ μ‚¬νšŒκ°€ λ‚˜μ€‘μ—” μžŠμ–΄λ²„λ¦¬κΈ°
08:15
we start to ignore. We don't do enough as a society.
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μ‹œμž‘ν•œλ‹€λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ‚¬νšŒλŠ” μΆ©λΆ„ν•œ 역할을 ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:19
We do not look after our victims, and we do not enable them,
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ν¬μƒμžλ“€μ„ λŒλ³΄μ§€λ„ μ•Šκ³ , μ‚΄μ•„λ‚Ό 수 μ—†κ²Œ λ§Œλ“­λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:23
and what I'm going to try and show is that actually,
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μ œκ°€ λ§ν•˜κ³ μž ν•˜λŠ” 것은 ν¬μƒμžλ“€μ΄μ•Ό 말둜
08:26
victims are the best weapon we have
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν…ŒλŸ¬μ— λ§žμ„œκΈ° μœ„ν•œ
08:29
against more terrorism.
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κ°€μž₯ 쒋은 λ¬΄κΈ°λΌλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:32
How would the government at the turn of the millennium
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2000λ…„λŒ€μ— λ“€μ–΄ μ„œλ©΄μ„œ μ •λΆ€λŠ” μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ ν–ˆλ‚˜μš”?
08:36
approach today? Well, we all know.
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우리 λͺ¨λ‘κ°€ μ•Œκ³  있죠.
08:38
What they'd have done then is an invasion.
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그것은 μΉ¨κ³΅μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:41
If the suicide bomber was from Wales,
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μžμ‚΄ 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈκ°€ μ›¨μΌμ¦ˆ μΆœμ‹ μ΄λ©΄,
08:44
good luck to Wales, I'd say.
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- μ›¨μΌμ¦ˆμ—κ² ν–‰μš΄μ„ λΉ•λ‹ˆλ‹€ -
08:46
Knee-jerk legislation, emergency provision legislation --
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λ©μ²­ν•œ κΈ΄κΈ‰ 쑰치 법은, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ‹€ μ•Œκ³  μžˆλ“―μ΄,
08:50
which hits at the very basis of our society, as we all know --
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우리 μ‚¬νšŒμ˜ 기초λ₯Ό 흔듀어 λ†“μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:54
it's a mistake.
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그것은 큰 μ‹€μˆ˜ μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:57
We're going to drive prejudice throughout Edinburgh,
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ—λ”˜λ²„λŸ¬μ™€ μ˜κ΅­μ— λ§Œμ—°ν•˜λŠ”
09:00
throughout the U.K., for Welsh people.
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μ›¨μΌμŠ€ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ— λŒ€ν•œ νŽΈκ²¬μ„ μ••λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:05
Today's approach, governments have learned from their mistakes.
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μ •λΆ€κ°€ μ‹€μˆ˜λ‘œ λΆ€ν„° κΉ¨λ‹¬μ•˜λ“―μ΄
09:11
They are looking at what I've started off on,
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이제 그듀은 μ œκ°€ μ²˜μŒμ— μ–ΈκΈ‰ν–ˆλ˜ κ·Έ λΉ„λŒ€μΉ­μ μΈ λ°©μ‹μœΌλ‘œ
09:13
on these more asymmetrical approaches to it,
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ— μ ‘κ·Όν•˜κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:16
more modernist views, cause and effect.
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즉, ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό 인과 κ΄€κ³„μ—μ„œ νŒŒμ•…ν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:19
But mistakes of the past are inevitable.
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 과거의 μ‹€μˆ˜λŠ” λΆˆκ°€ν”Όκ³ 
09:22
It's human nature.
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그것이 μΈκ°„μ˜ λ³Έμ„±μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:23
The fear and the pressure to do something on them
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λ­”κ°€λ₯Ό ν•΄μ•Ό ν•œλ‹€λŠ” 두렀움과 μ••λ ₯이 ν΄λ•Œ,
09:27
is going to be immense. They are going to make mistakes.
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인간은 μ‹€μˆ˜λ₯Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:29
They're not just going to be smart.
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뿐만 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ 멍청해지기도 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:33
There was a famous Irish terrorist who once summed up
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ν•œ 유λͺ…ν•œ μ•„μΌλžœλ“œ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈκ°€ 이것에 λŒ€ν•΄
09:36
the point very beautifully. He said,
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λ‹€μŒκ΄΄ 같이 λ§ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:39
"The thing is, about the British government, is, is that it's got
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" 영ꡭ μ •λΆ€λŠ” 항상 운이 따라야 ν•˜κ² μ§€λ§Œ,
09:41
to be lucky all the time, and we only have to be lucky once."
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” ν•œ 번만 운이 따라주면 λœλ‹€. "
09:46
So what we need to do is we have to effect it.
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ·Έ κ²°κ³Όλ₯Ό λ°”κΏ€ 수 μžˆμ–΄μ•Ό ν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€..
09:49
We've got to start thinking about being more proactive.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 보닀 사전에 λŒ€μ²˜ν•˜λŠ” μžμ„Έκ°€ ν•„μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:52
We need to build an arsenal of noncombative weapons
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ™€μ˜ μ „μŸμ—μ„œ μš°λ¦¬λŠ”
09:57
in this war on terrorism.
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무기 μ™Έμ˜ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ μ‹Έμ›Œμ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:58
But of course, it's ideas -- is not something that governments do very well.
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λ¬Όλ‘ , μ •λΆ€κ°€ 이런 λ©΄μœΌλ‘œλŠ” μ°Έ μž¬μ£Όκ°€ μ—†λŠ” 편이죠.
10:07
I want to go back just to before the bang, to this idea of
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μ œκ°€ 폭탄을 ν„°λœ¨λ¦¬κΈ° 전에 ν–ˆλ˜ μ–˜κΈ°λ‘œ λŒμ•„κ°€ λ³΄κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:11
brand, and I was talking about Coke and Pepsi, etc.
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λΈŒλžœλ“œ, 그리고 μ½œλΌμ™€ νŽ©μ‹œμ— λŒ€ν•œ κ²ƒμ΄μ—ˆμ£ .
10:15
We see it as terrorism versus democracy in that brand war.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 이 λΈŒλžœλ“œ μ „μŸμ„ λ―Όμ£Όμ£Όμ˜μ™€ ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜κ³Όμ˜ μ „μŸμœΌλ‘œ λ΄…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:19
They'll see it as freedom fighters and truth
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그듀은 이 μ „μŸμ„, 뢈의, μ œκ΅­μ£Όμ˜μ™€ λ§žμ„œλŠ”
10:21
against injustice, imperialism, etc.
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자유, 진싀을 μœ„ν•œ μ „μ‚¬μ˜ μ „μŸμœΌλ‘œ λ³΄λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:28
We do have to see this as a deadly battlefield.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 이것을 μ§„μ§œ μ „μŸν„°λ‘œ 여겨야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:32
It's not just [our] flesh and blood they want.
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그듀이 μ›ν•˜λŠ” 것은 단지 우리의 μ‚΄κ³Ό ν”Όκ°€ μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:35
They actually want our cultural souls, and that's why
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그듀은 정말 μ›ν•˜λŠ” 것은 우리의 문화적 μ˜ν˜Όμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:38
the brand analogy is a very interesting way of looking at this.
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ 이 μ „μŸμ„ λΈŒλžœλ“œμ— λΉ„μœ ν•˜λŠ” 것 μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:42
If we look at al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was essentially
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μ•ŒμΉ΄μ—λ‹€λ₯Ό μ‚΄νŽ΄ 보면, 그듀은 본질적으둜
10:47
a product on a shelf in a souk somewhere
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λ§Žμ€ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄ 듀어보지 λͺ»ν•œ
10:51
which not many people had heard of.
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μ‹œμž₯ μ–΄λ”˜κ°€μ˜ μ„ λ°˜μ— μžˆλŠ” μ œν’ˆμ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€..
10:54
9/11 launched it. It was its big marketing day,
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9/11 이 κ·Έ μ œν’ˆμ„ λ‘ μΉ­ν•œ λ‚ μ΄μ—ˆλ˜ 것이죠.
10:58
and it was packaged for the 21st century. They knew what they were doing.
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그것은 21 μ„ΈκΈ°λ₯Ό μœ„ν•œ μƒν’ˆμ΄μ—ˆμœΌλ©°, 둠칭은 λŒ€λ‹¨ν•œ μ„±κ³΅μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:03
They were effectively [doing] something in this brand image
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그듀은 효과적으둜 λΈŒλžœλ“œ 이미지 μ°½μΆœν•΄μ„œ,
11:06
of creating a brand which can be franchised around
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빈곀, 무지, λΆˆμ˜κ°€ μ‘΄μž¬ν•˜λŠ” 세계 곳곳에
11:10
the world, where there's poverty, ignorance and injustice.
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ν”„λžœμ°¨μ΄μ¦ˆλ₯Ό ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:15
We, as I've said, have got to hit that market,
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전에도 λ§ν–ˆλ“―, κ·Έ μ‹œμž₯을 타격해야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:19
but we've got to use our heads rather than our might.
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 그러기 μœ„ν•΄ 힘이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ 머리λ₯Ό 써야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:23
If we perceive it in this way as a brand, or other ways of thinking at it like this,
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이런 λΈŒλžœλ“œμ˜ λΉ„μœ μ™€ 같이, ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μ¦˜μ„ λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°©μ‹μœΌλ‘œ μ΄ν•΄ν•œλ‹€λ©΄,
11:27
we will not resolve or counter terrorism.
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μ „μŸμ„ 톡해 ν•΄κ²°ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•„λ„ 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:31
What I'd like to do is just briefly go through a few examples
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기쑴의 것과 λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°©μ‹μœΌλ‘œ μ ‘κ·Όν–ˆλ˜ 저희 μž‘μ—…μœΌλ‘œ λΆ€ν„°
11:34
from my work on areas where we try and approach these things differently.
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κ°„λ‹¨νžˆ λͺ‡ 가지 예λ₯Ό λ“€κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:40
The first one has been dubbed "lawfare,"
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첫 λ²ˆμ§ΈλŠ” "법λ₯ μ „"μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:44
for want of a better word.
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더 λ§žλŠ” 말을 찿을 수 μ—†λ”κ΅°μš”.
11:46
When we originally looked at bringing civil actions against terrorists,
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처음 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈμ— λŒ€ν•œ μ‹œλ―Ό ν™œλ™μ„ ν•˜λ €κ³  μƒκ°ν–ˆμ„ λ•Œ,
11:50
everyone thought we were a bit mad and mavericks
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λͺ¨λ‘κ°€ 저희λ₯Ό 괴짜 λ―ΈμΉ˜κ΄‘μ΄λ“€λ‘œ λ³΄μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:53
and crackpots. Now it's got a title. Everyone's doing it.
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μ§€κΈˆμ€ λͺ…성도 μŒ“μ•˜κ³ , λͺ¨λ‘κ°€ λ”°λ₯΄κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:56
There's a bomb, people start suing.
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폭탄이 터지면, μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ κ³ μ†Œλ₯Ό μ‹œμž‘ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€..
11:58
But one of the first early cases on this was the Omagh Bombing.
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이 쀑 첫 번째 초기 μ‚¬λ‘€λŠ” 였마 ν­νƒ„ν…ŒλŸ¬ μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:02
A civil action was brought from 1998.
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1998 λ…„ 민사 μ†Œμ†‘μ΄ μ‹œμž‘λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:05
In Omagh, bomb went off, Real IRA,
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μ˜€λ§ˆμ—μ„œ 폭탄이 ν„°μ‘Œκ³ ,
12:09
middle of a peace process.
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리얼 IRA μ™€λŠ” 평화 ν˜‘μ • κ³Όμ • 쀑에 μžˆμ—ˆμ£ .
12:11
That meant that the culprits couldn't really be prosecuted
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그것은 κ·Έ 범인을 κΈ°μ†Œν•  수 μ—†μ—ˆμŒμšΈ μ˜λ―Έν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:15
for lots of reasons, mostly to do with the peace process
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λ§Žμ€ μ΄μœ μ€‘, 평화 ν˜‘μ •μ΄ μ§„ν–‰μ€‘μ΄μ—ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ—ˆμ£ .
12:18
and what was going on, the greater good.
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더 큰 선을 μœ„ν•΄μ„œ λΌλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:21
It also meant, then, if you can imagine this,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ 이것은 λ˜ν•œ
12:23
that the people who bombed your children
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ν­νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ μžμ‹ ν˜Ήμ€ λ‚¨νŽΈμ„ μ•—μ•„κ°„ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄
12:25
and your husbands were walking around the supermarket
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λ‚΄ κ³ μž₯의 μˆ˜νΌλ§ˆκ²Ÿμ„ 버젓이 ν™œλ³΄ν•˜κ³  μžˆμŒμ„
12:31
that you lived in.
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μ˜λ―Έν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:32
Some of those victims said enough is enough.
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일뢀 ν”Όν•΄μžλ“€μ€ 이젠 참을 수 μ—†λ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν–ˆκ³ ,
12:36
We brought a private action, and thank God, 10 years later,
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κ·Έλ“€μ˜ λ―Όμ‚¬μ†Œμ†‘μ„ μ‹œμž‘ν•˜κ³ , 10년이 μ§€λ‚˜
12:40
we actually won it. There is a slight appeal on
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λ“œλ””μ–΄ μŠΉμ†Œν•  수 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:42
at the moment so I have to be a bit careful,
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μž‘μ€ μƒμ†Œκ°€ κ±Έλ € μžˆμ§€λ§Œ, μ΄λ²ˆμ—λ„
12:44
but I'm fairly confident.
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κ½€ μžμ‹  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:46
Why was it effective?
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μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μŠΉλ¦¬ν•  수 μžˆμ—ˆμ„ κΉŒμš”?
12:48
It was effective not just because justice was seen to be done
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μ •μ˜κ°€ 제 ν•  일을 λ‹€ν–ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄κΈ°λ„ ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ,
12:50
where there was a huge void.
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κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 헛점을 κ³΅κ²©ν–ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:52
It was because the Real IRA and other terrorist groups,
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리얼 IRA와 λ‹€λ₯Έ ν…ŒλŸ¬ μ§‘λ‹¨μ˜ νž˜μ€ 사싀
12:57
their whole strength is from the fact that they are
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κ·Έλ“€ μžμ‹ μ΄ μ‚¬νšŒμ  μ•½μžλΌλŠ” μ‚¬μ‹€μ—μ„œ
12:59
an underdog. When we put the victims as the underdog
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λ‚˜μ˜΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. κ·Έ ν¬μƒμžλ“€ λ˜ν•œ κ·Έλ“€κ³Ό 같은 μ•½μžμž„μ„
13:04
and flipped it, they didn't know what to do.
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μ§€μ ν•˜μž, 그듀은 λ°©ν–₯을 μžƒμ–΄λ²„λ¦° κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:07
They were embarrassed. Their recruitment went down.
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그듀은 λ‹Ήν™© ν–ˆκ³ , 신병 λͺ¨μ§‘은 ν•˜λ½ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:11
The bombs actually stopped -- fact -- because of this action.
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이런 우리의 ν™œλ™μœΌλ‘œ 인해 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬λŠ” λ©ˆμ·„μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:15
We became, or those victims became, more importantly,
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μš°λ¦¬λ„ κ·Έ ν¬μƒμžλ“€λ„ μ€‘μš”ν•΄μ§„ 것이죠.
13:19
a ghost that haunted the terrorist organization.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬ 쑰직을 λ°°νšŒν•˜λŠ” 유령이 된 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:23
There's other examples. We have a case called Almog
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ•Œλͺ¨κ·Έ 라고 λΆ€λ₯΄λŠ” λ‹€λ₯Έ μ˜ˆκ°€ 더 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€
13:26
which is to do with a bank that was,
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μžμ‚΄ 폭탄 ν…ŒλŸ¬ λ²”μ—κ²Œ
13:30
allegedly, from our point of view,
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은행이 상을 쀬닀고 μƒκ°ν•˜λŠ”
13:33
giving rewards to suicide bombers.
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μ‚¬κ±΄μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:37
Just by bringing the very action,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 행동을 μ·¨ν•¨μœΌλ‘œμ¨
13:40
that bank has stopped doing it, and indeed,
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κ·Έ 은행은 κ·Έ 일을 λ©ˆμ·„μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:42
the powers that be around the world, which for real politic
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μ‹€μ œλ‘œ, μ •μΉ˜μ  이유 λ•Œλ¬Έμ— μ„Έκ³„μ˜ κ°•λŒ€κ΅­λ“€μ€
13:45
reasons before, couldn't actually deal with this issue,
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이런 문제 λ‹€λ£° 수 μ—†μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:48
because there was lots of competing interests,
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수 λ§Žμ€ 경쟁적인 이해 관계 λ•Œλ¬Έμ—
13:50
have actually closed down those loopholes in the banking system.
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금육 μ‹œμŠ€ν…œμ˜ 그런 ν—ˆμ λ“€μ„ ν•΄κ²°ν•˜μ§€ λͺ»ν–ˆμ„ μˆ˜λ„ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:53
There's another case called the McDonald case,
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λ§₯λ„λ‚ λ“œλΌλŠ” 또 λ‹€λ₯Έ μ˜ˆκ°€ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
13:55
where some victims of Semtex, of the Provisional IRA bombings,
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μΉ΄λ‹€ν”Όκ°€ μ œκ³΅ν–ˆλ˜ ν­νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ μžν–‰λ˜μ—ˆλ‹€κ³  μƒκ°λ˜λŠ”
14:00
which were supplied by Gaddafi, sued,
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IRA ν…ŒλŸ¬μ˜ 일뢀 Semtex ν¬μƒμžλ“€κ³Ό
14:06
and that action has led to amazing things for new Libya.
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κ·Έλ“€μ˜ ν™œλ™μ€ μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ 리비아에 λŒ€ν•œ λ†€λΌμš΄ 것 듀을 μ£Όλ„ν•˜κ³  μžˆλ‹€.
14:11
New Libya has been compassionate towards those victims,
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μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ λ¦¬λΉ„μ•„λŠ” κ·Έ ν”Όν•΄μžμ—κ²Œ 동정을 λ³΄μ˜€μœΌλ©°,
14:14
and started taking it -- so it started a whole new dialogue there.
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그것에 λŒ€ν•΄ μƒˆλ‘œμš΄ λŒ€ν™”λ₯Ό μ‹œμž‘ν•˜κ²Œ λ˜μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:18
But the problem is, we need more and more support
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ λ¬Έμ œλŠ”, 이런 생각과 ν™œλ„μ„ μœ„ν•œ
14:22
for these ideas and cases.
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더 λ§Žμ€ 지원이 ν•„μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:25
Civil affairs and civil society initiatives.
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λ―Όκ°„μ˜ ν™œλ™μ˜ μ‹œμž‘μ΄ κ·Έκ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:29
A good one is in Somalia. There's a war on piracy.
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ν•΄μ κ³Όμ˜ μ „μŸμ„ 벌이고 μžˆλŠ” μ†Œλ§λ¦¬μ•„κ°€ 쒋은 경우일 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:32
If anyone thinks you can have a war on piracy
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일반적으둜 ν•΄μ κ³Όμ˜ μ „μŸμ„ ν…ŒλŸ¬μ™€μ˜ μ „μŸκ³Ό 같이
14:34
like a war on terrorism and beat it, you're wrong.
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그듀을 μ³λΆ€μˆ˜λ©΄ λœλ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν•˜κ² μ§€λ§Œ, μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:36
What we're trying to do there is turn pirates to fisherman.
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이기렀 ν•  것이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ, 해적을 μ–΄λΆ€λ‘œ λ°”κΎΈμ–΄ 놓아야 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:39
They used to be fisherman, of course,
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그듀은 μ›λž˜ μ–΄λΆ€μ˜€μ§€λ§Œ,
14:42
but we stole their fish and dumped a load of toxic waste
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독성 폐기물을 ν˜λ €λ³΄λ‚΄ κ·Έλ“€μ˜ λ¬Όκ³ κΈ°λ₯Ό 빼앗은 것은
14:45
in their water, so what we're trying to do is create
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μš°λ¦¬λ“€μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 그듀이 μ•ˆμ „ν•˜κ²Œ μ–΄μ—… ν™œλ™μ„ ν•  수 μžˆλ„λ‘
14:48
security and employment by bringing a coastguard
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μœ„ν•œ ν•΄μ•ˆ κ²½λΉ„λ₯Ό ν•΄μ£Όμ–΄μ•Ό ν• κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
14:50
along with the fisheries industry, and I can guarantee you,
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이런 ν™œλ™μ€ μ•Œ 샀λ°₯κ³Ό 그런 집단듀이
14:54
as that builds, al Shabaab and such likes will not have
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κ°€λ‚œκ³Ό 뢈의λ₯Ό λ‹€μ‹œλŠ” 그듀이 먹이둜 μ·¨ν•˜μ§€
14:57
the poverty and injustice any longer to prey on those people.
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λͺ»ν•˜κ²Œ ν•  κ²ƒμž„μ„ μ €λŠ” ν™•μ‹€νžˆ λ―ΏμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:01
These initiatives cost less than a missile,
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이런 ν™œλ™μ— λ“œλŠ” λΉ„μš©μ€ 미사일에 μŸλŠ” λΉ„μš© 보닀
15:04
and certainly less than any soldier's life,
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ꡰ인의 생λͺ…보닀 훠씬 μŒ‰λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:07
but more importantly, it takes the war to their homelands,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 더 μ€‘μš” ν•œ 것은 우리 ν•΄μ•ˆμ΄ μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ
15:10
and not onto our shore,
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κ·Έλ“€μ˜ λ•…μ—μ„œ μ „μŸμ„ ν•˜λŠ”λ°,
15:13
and we're looking at the causes.
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그듀이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ·Έ 원인을 μ°Ύκ³  μžˆλ‹€λŠ” 것이죠.
15:14
The last one I wanted to talk about was dialogue.
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λ§ˆμ§€λ§‰μœΌλ‘œ λ“œλ¦¬κ³  싢은 μ–˜κΈ°λŠ” λŒ€ν™”ν•˜μžλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:17
The advantages of dialogue are obvious.
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λŒ€ν™”μ˜ μž₯점은 λΆ„λͺ…ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:20
It self-educates both sides, enables a better understanding,
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λŒ€ν™”λŠ” μ–‘μͺ½ λͺ¨λ‘κ°€ μ„œλ‘œλ₯Ό 더 μ΄ν•΄ν•˜κ³ 
15:25
reveals the strengths and weaknesses,
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약점과 강점을 λ“œλŸ¬λ‚Ό 수 있게 ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:27
and yes, like some of the speakers before,
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μ „ 연사도 μ–˜κΈ°ν–ˆλ“―μ΄,
15:29
the shared vulnerability does lead to trust, and
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μ„œλ‘œ 취약점을 λ“œλŸ¬λƒˆμ„ λ•Œ μ‹ λ’°κ°€ 생기고,
15:33
it does then become, that process, part of normalization.
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그런 것이 정상화 κ³Όμ •μ˜ 일뢀가 λ˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:36
But it's not an easy road. After the bomb,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ, ν­νƒ„μ˜ ν”Όν•΄μž λ“€μ—κ²Œ λŒ€ν™”λž€
15:41
the victims are not into this.
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κ²°μ½” μ‰¬μš΄ 일이 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€
15:44
There's practical problems.
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ν˜„μ‹€μ μΈ λ¬Έμ œλ„ 있죠..
15:46
It's politically risky for the protagonists
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λŒ€ν™” λ‹Ήμ‚¬μžμ™€ μ€‘κ³„μžμ—κ²Œ μ •μΉ˜μ  μœ„ν—˜μ΄ λ”°λ₯΄μ£ .
15:49
and for the interlocutors. On one occasion
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μ œκ°€ 그듀을 μ€‘μ œν•˜λ©΄μ„œ,
15:51
I was doing it, every time I did a point that they didn't like,
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κ·Έλ“€ λ§ˆμŒμ— 듀지 μ•ŠλŠ” μ˜κ²¬μ„ λ‚΄ 놓을 λ•Œλ§ˆλ‹€
15:54
they actually threw stones at me,
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그듀은 μ €μ—κ²Œ λŒμ„ λ˜μ§‘λ‹ˆλ‹€.
15:56
and when I did a point they liked,
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κ·Έλ“€ λ§ˆμŒμ— λ“œλŠ” μ•ˆμ„ μ œμ‹œν–ˆμ„ λ•ŒλŠ”
15:58
they starting shooting in the air, equally not great. (Laughter)
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μ’‹μ•„ μ£½μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. λ‘˜ λ‹€ 쒋은 것이 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€. (μ›ƒμŒ)
16:02
Whatever the point, it gets to the heart of the problem,
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μ–΄λ–€ μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ“ , 문제의 핡심에 λŒ€ν•΄
16:06
you're doing it, you're talking to them.
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μƒκ°ν•˜κ³ , λŒ€ν™” ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:08
Now, I just want to end with saying, if we follow reason,
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이제 λ‹€μŒκ³Ό 같은 κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ 제 μ–˜κΈ°λ₯Ό 끝내고 μ‹ΆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:11
we realize that I think we'd all say that we want to
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μ΄μ„±μ μœΌλ‘œ μƒκ°ν•˜λ©΄, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 사싀은 ν…ŒλŸ¬λ₯Ό
16:17
have a perception of terrorism which is not just a pure
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λ‹¨μˆœνžˆ μˆœμˆ˜ν•œ ꡰ사적 κ°œλ…μœΌλ‘œλ§Œ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠλŠ”λ‹€λŠ” κ±Έ
16:19
military perception of it.
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μ•Œ 수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:23
We need to foster more
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ—λŠ” 보닀 ν˜„λŒ€μ μ΄κ³  'μ΄μ—λŠ” 이' 식이 μ•„λ‹Œ
16:26
modern and asymmetrical responses to it.
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상황에 λ§žλŠ” λŒ€μ‘μ΄ ν•„μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:28
This isn't about being soft on terrorism.
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ— μ•½ν•˜κ²Œ λŒ€μ‘ν•˜μžλŠ” 뜻이 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:31
It's about fighting them on contemporary battlefields.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” ν˜„λŒ€μ˜ μ „μž₯μ—μ„œ μ‹Έμš°κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:35
We must foster innovation, as I've said.
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전에도 말씀 λ“œλ Έλ“―μ΄, ν˜μ‹ μ΄ ν•„μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:38
Governments are receptive. It won't come from those dusty corridors.
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정뢀도 μˆ˜μš©ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 정뢀도 그리 κ΅¬νƒœμ˜μ—°ν•˜μ§€λŠ” μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:42
The private sector has a role.
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λ―Όκ°„ 뢀문이 λ‹΄λ‹Ή ν•  역할이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:44
The role we could do right now is going away
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λ‹Ήμž₯ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” 것은
16:46
and looking at how we can support victims around the world
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λ‚˜κ°€μ„œ μ „μ„Έκ³„μ˜ ν¬μƒμžλ“€μ„ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ λ„μšΈ 수
16:50
to bring initiatives.
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μžˆμ„μ§€λ₯Ό μ•Œμ•„λ³΄λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
16:52
If I was to leave you with some big questions here which
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μ—¬κΈ° 계신 μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ˜ ν…ŒλŸ¬μ— λŒ€ν•œ 생각을 λ°”κΏ” 놓을지도 λͺ¨λ₯Ό,
16:54
may change one's perception to it, and who knows what
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ν…ŒλŸ¬μ— λŒ€ν•œ λ°˜μ‘μ΄λ‚˜ 인식이 μ–΄μ©Œλ©΄ μ—¬κΈ°μ„œ 비둯될 지도 λͺ¨λ₯Ό
16:58
thoughts and responses will come out of it,
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μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν•˜λ‚˜ 던져 λ³΄κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:00
but did myself and my terrorist group actually need
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈκ°€ 정말 κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 신념을 보이기 μœ„ν•΄
17:04
to blow you up to make our point?
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ„ ν­νƒ„μœΌλ‘œ λ‚ λ €μ•Ό ν–ˆμ„κΉŒμš”?
17:07
We have to ask ourselves these questions, however unpalatable.
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싫어도, κΌ­ 생각해 보아야 ν•  μ§ˆλ¬Έλ“€μ΄ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:12
Have we been ignoring an injustice or a humanitarian
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세계 μ–΄λ”˜κ°€μ—μ„œ μΌμ–΄λ‚˜κ³  λΆ€μ •μ΄λ‚˜ μΈκΆŒμ„ ν–₯ν•œ νˆ¬μŸμ—
17:15
struggle somewhere in the world?
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무관심 ν•΄μ˜€μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜λŠ”μ§€μš”?
17:18
What if, actually, engagement on poverty and injustice
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ν…ŒλŸ¬λ¦¬μŠ€νŠΈλ“€μ΄ μ‹€μ œλ‘œ μ›ν•˜λŠ” 것이 κ·Έλ“€μ˜ κ°€λ‚œκ³Ό 뢀정에
17:20
is exactly what the terrorists wanted us to do?
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ΄€μ—¬ν•΄μ£ΌλŠ” 것이라면, μ–΄μ©” 것인지?
17:23
What if the bombs are just simply wake-up calls for us?
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폭탄은 단지 μš°λ¦¬μ—κ²Œ 경쒅을 울렀 μ£ΌκΈ° μœ„ν•œ 것일 뿐이라면, μ–΄μ©” 것인지?
17:26
What happens if that bomb went off
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λ§Œμ•½ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 이것을 μ œλŒ€λ‘œ λ‹€λ£° 수 μžˆλ„λ‘
17:29
because we didn't have any thoughts and things in place
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이듀과 λŒ€ν™”ν•  생각을 ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ—
17:32
to allow dialogue to deal with these things and interaction?
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폭탄이 ν„°μ‘Œλ‹€λ©΄, μ–΄λ–»ν•  것인가?
17:37
What is definitely uncontroversial
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ν™•μ‹€νžˆ λ…Όλž€μ˜ 여지가 μ—†λŠ” 것은
17:40
is that, as I've said, we've got to stop being reactive,
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일이 터지고 그것에 λŒ€μ‘ν•˜λŠ” 것이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ,
17:42
and more proactive, and I just want to leave you
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μ˜ˆλ°©ν•˜μžλŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:46
with one idea, which is that
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λŒ€λ‹΅ν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•΄μ„œλŠ”
17:49
it's a provocative question for you to think about,
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μ•…λ§ˆμ— λŒ€ν•œ 동점심이 ν•„μš”ν• 
17:52
and the answer will require sympathy with the devil.
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λ„λ°œμ μΈ μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν•˜λ‚˜ λ˜μ§€κ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:56
It's a question that's been tackled by many great thinkers
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λ§Žμ€ 사상가와 μ €μžλ“€μ΄ λ„μ „ν–ˆλ˜ μ§ˆλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
17:59
and writers: What if society actually needs crisis to change?
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우리 μ‚¬νšŒκ°€ λ°œμ „ν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•΄μ„œ μ‹€μ œλ‘œ μœ„κΈ°κ°€ ν•„μš”ν•œ 것이 μ•„λ‹κΉŒ?
18:04
What if society actually needs terrorism
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우리 μ‚¬νšŒκ°€ 더 λ‚˜μ€ λ°”ν–₯으둜 κ°€κΈ° μœ„ν•΄ μ‹€μ œλ‘œ
18:08
to change and adapt for the better?
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ν…ŒλŸ¬κ°€ ν•„μš”ν•œ 것이라면?
18:10
It's those Bulgakov themes, it's that picture of Jesus
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이런 μ§ˆλ¬Έμ€ λΆˆκ°€μ½”ν”„κ°€ λ¬˜μ‚¬ν•œ λŒ€λ‘œ,
18:14
and the Devil hand in hand in Gethsemane
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μ˜ˆμˆ˜κ°€ κ²Ÿμ„Έλ§ˆλ„€μ–΄μ„œ 사탄과 손을 작고
18:18
walking into the moonlight.
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달빛을 κ±·λŠ” κ·Έλ¦Όκ³Ό 같은 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
18:20
What it would mean is that humans,
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그것은 인간이 살아남아 계속 λ°œμ „ν•˜κΈ°
18:23
in order to survive in development,
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신이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ 사탄이 ν•„μš”ν•˜λ‹€λŠ”
18:25
quite Darwinian spirit here,
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μ μžμƒμ‘΄μ˜ λ‹€μœˆ 법칙을
18:27
inherently must dance with the devil.
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μ˜λ―Έν•˜λŠ” 것일지도 λͺ¨λ¦…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
18:32
A lot of people say that communism was defeated
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κ³΅μ‚°μ£Όμ˜λ₯Ό λ¬΄λ„ˆλœ¨λ¦° 것은
18:36
by the Rolling Stones. It's a good theory.
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둀링 μŠ€ν†€μ¦ˆλΌκ³  μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ λ§ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. 쒋은 이둠 이죠.
18:40
Maybe the Rolling Stones has a place in this.
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둀링 μŠ€ν†€μ¦ˆκ°€ 제 역할을 λ‹€ ν–ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄ μ•„λ‹κΉŒμš”.
18:43
Thank you.
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κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
18:45
(Music) (Applause)
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(μŒμ•…) (λ°•μˆ˜)
18:54
Bruno Giussani: Thank you. (Applause)
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뢀루노 κ·€μ‚¬λ‹ˆ: κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. (λ°•μˆ˜)
이 μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈ 정보

이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλŠ” μ˜μ–΄ ν•™μŠ΅μ— μœ μš©ν•œ YouTube λ™μ˜μƒμ„ μ†Œκ°œν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ „ 세계 졜고의 μ„ μƒλ‹˜λ“€μ΄ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μˆ˜μ—…μ„ 보게 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 각 λ™μ˜μƒ νŽ˜μ΄μ§€μ— ν‘œμ‹œλ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μžλ§‰μ„ 더블 ν΄λ¦­ν•˜λ©΄ κ·Έκ³³μ—μ„œ λ™μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λΉ„λ””μ˜€ μž¬μƒμ— 맞좰 μžλ§‰μ΄ μŠ€ν¬λ‘€λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ‚˜ μš”μ²­μ΄ μžˆλŠ” 경우 이 문의 양식을 μ‚¬μš©ν•˜μ—¬ λ¬Έμ˜ν•˜μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.

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