How to lead a conversation between people who disagree | Eve Pearlman

Transcriber: Leslie Gauthier Reviewer: Joanna Pietrulewicz

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuca Lektor: Kristina Radosavljević

So in the run-up to the 2016 election,

Uoči izbora 2016. godine,

I was, like most of us, watching the rise in discord and vitriol

kao i većina nas, gledala sam sve veću neslogu, osude

and nastiness in our public spaces.

i gadosti u našim javnim prostorima.

It was this crazy uptick in polarization.

Bio je to ludački porast polarizacije.

It was both disheartening and distressing.

Bilo je obeshrabrujuće i uznemirujuće.

And so I started thinking, with a fellow journalist, Jeremy Hay,

Pa sam počela da razmišljam, sa kolegom novinarem, Džeremijem Hejem,

about how we might practice our craft differently.

o tome kako se možemo drugačije baviti svojim zanatom.

How we might go to the heart of divides,

Kako bismo mogli da stignemo do srca podela, do mesta konflikta,

to places of conflict,

kao što su novinari oduvek radili,

like journalists always have,

but then, once there, do something really different.

ali onda, kada stignemo tamo, uradimo nešto zaista drugačije.

We knew we wanted to take the core tools of our craft --

Znali smo da želimo da uzmemo osnovne alate svog zanata -

careful vetting of information, diligent research, curiosity,

pažljivo proveravanje informacija, marljivo istraživanje, radoznalost,

a commitment to serving the public good --

posvećenost služenju javnom dobru,

to serving our democracy --

služenju našoj demokratiji -

and do something new.

i uradimo nešto novo.

And so we mapped out this process,

I tako smo mapirali ovaj proces

what we call dialogue journalism,

koji nazivamo novinarstvom dijaloga,

for going to the heart of social and political divides,

radi dolaženja do srži društvenih i političkih podela,

and then, once there, building journalism-supported conversations

a zatim, kada se nađemo tamo, izgradnje razgovora podržanih novinarstvom

between people on opposite sides of polarizing issues.

među ljudima na suprotnim stranama polarizovanih pitanja.

But how actually to do this in a world that's so divided,

Ali kako to zapravo uraditi u svetu koji je toliko podeljen,

so deeply divided --

toliko duboko podeljen,

when we live in a world

kada živimo u svetu

in which cousins and aunts and uncles can't talk to one another,

u kome rođaci, tetke i stričevi ne mogu da razgovaraju jedni sa drugima,

when we often live in separate and distinct news ecosystems,

kada često živimo u odvojenim i zasebnim ekosistemima vesti,

and when we reflexively and habitually malign and dismiss

i kada refleksno i po navici opanjkavamo i odbacujemo

those with whom we disagree?

one sa kojima se ne slažemo?

But we wanted to try.

Ali hteli smo da probamo.

And so right after the 2016 election,

I tako odmah nakon izbora 2016. godine,

in that time between the election and the inauguration,

u ono vreme između izbora i inauguracije,

we partnered with the Alabama Media Group to do something really different.

udružili smo se sa Medijskom grupom Alabame da uradimo nešto zaista drugačije.

We brought 25 Trump supporters from Alabama together

Spojili smo 25 Trampovih pristalica iz Alabame u razgovoru

in conversation with 25 Clinton supporters from California.

sa 25 pristalica Klintonove iz Kalifornije.

And we brought them together in a closed, moderated Facebook group

Spojili smo ih u zatvorenu, moderiranu grupu na Fejsbuku

that we kept open for a month.

koju smo držali otvorenom mesec dana.

What we wanted to do

Hteli smo da postignemo

was to give them a place to engage with genuine curiosity and openness.

da im pružimo mesto da komuniciraju sa istinskom radoznalošću i otvorenošću.

And we wanted to support them in building relationships,

Hteli smo i da ih podržimo u izgradnji odnosa,

not just with each other but with us as journalists.

ne samo jednih sa drugima, već i sa nama kao novinarima.

And then we wanted to supply facts and information --

A zatim smo hteli da dostavimo činjenice i informacije -

facts and information that they could actually receive and process

činjenice i informacije koje bi oni mogli primiti, obraditi

and use to undergird their conversations.

i koristiti da učvrste svoje razgovore.

And so as a prelude to this conversation,

Kao uvod u ovaj razgovor,

the first step in what we call dialogue journalism,

prvi korak u onome što nazivamo novinarstvom dijaloga,

we asked what they thought the other side thought of them.

pitali smo ih šta misle da druga strana misli o njima.

So when we asked the Trump supporters from Alabama

Kada smo pitali Trampove pristalice iz Alabame

what they thought the Clinton supporters in California thought of them,

šta su mislili da pristalice Klintonove u Kaliforniji misle o njima,

this is some of what they said.

ovo je nešto od onoga što su rekli.

"They think we are religious Bible thumpers."

„Oni misle da smo religiozni biblijski zaluđenici.“

"That we're backwards and hickish, and stupid."

„Da smo zaostali, seljačine i glupi.“

"They think that we all have Confederate flags in our yards,

„Misle da svi imamo zastavu Konfederacije u dvorištu,

da smo rasiste, seksiste i neobrazovani.“

that we're racist and sexist and uneducated."

"They think we're barefoot and pregnant, with dirt driveways."

„Misle da smo bosi i trudni, sa prljavim prilazima pred kućom.“

"And they think we're all prissy butts

„Misle i da smo svi seka perse

i da idemo okolo u krinolinama, sa poljima pamuka u pozadini“.

and that we walk around in hoop skirts with cotton fields in the background."

And then we asked that same question of the Californians:

Zatim smo to isto pitanje postavili stanovnicima Kalifornije:

"What do you think the Alabamians think about you?"

„Šta mislite da ljudi iz Alabame misle o vama?“

And they said this: "That we're crazy, liberal Californians."

Rekli su ovo: „Misle da smo ludi, liberalni Kalifornijci.“

"That we're not patriotic."

„Da nismo patriote.“

"We're snobby and we're elitist."

„Snobovi smo i elitiste.“

"We're godless and we're permissive with our children."

„Bezbožnici smo i popustljivi prema svojoj deci.“

"And that we're focused on our careers, not our family."

„I da smo usmereni na karijeru, a ne na porodicu.“

"That we're elitist, pie-in-the-sky intellectuals,

„Da smo elitiste, intelektualci sa glavom u oblacima,

rich people, Whole Foods-eating,

bogataši koji se hrane u prodavnicama zdrave hrane,

very out of touch."

van dodira sa realnošću.“

So by asking questions like this at the start of every conversation

Postavljanjem ovakvih pitanja na početku svakog razgovora,

and by identifying and sharing stereotypes,

utvrđivanjem i iznošenjem stereotipa,

we find that people -- people on all sides --

nalazimo da ljudi na svim stranama

begin to see the simplistic and often mean-spirited caricatures they carry.

počinju da uviđaju da nose uprošćene i često zlobne karikature.

And in that --

A time -

after that, we can move into a process of genuine conversation.

nakon toga možemo da nastavimo sa procesom istinskog razgovora.

So in the two years since that launch -- California/Alabama Project --

Tokom dve godine od tog pokretanja projekta Kalifornija/Alabama,

we've gone on to host dialogues and partnerships

nastavili smo da vodimo dijaloge i partnerstva

with media organizations across the country.

sa medijskim organizacijama širom zemlje.

And they've been about some of our most contentious issues:

Bavili su se nekim od naših najspornijih pitanja:

guns, immigration, race, education.

oružjem, imigracijom, rasom, obrazovanjem.

And what we found,

Otkrili smo,

remarkably,

što je bilo neverovatno,

is that real dialogue is in fact possible.

da je stvarni dijalog zaista moguć.

And that when given a chance and structure around doing so,

I da, kada im se pruži šansa i struktura oko toga,

many, not all, but many of our fellow citizens

mnogi, ne svi, ali mnogi naši sugrađani

are eager to engage with the other.

rado se uključuju u razgovor sa drugima.

Too often journalists have sharpened divides

Prečesto novinari imaju izoštrene podele

in the name of drama or readership or in service to our own views.

u ime drame ili čitalaca ili u službi ličnih stavova.

And too often we've gone to each side quoting a partisan voice on one side

Prečesto prilazimo svakoj strani citirajući pristalice sa jedne strane

and a partisan voice on the other

i pristalice sa druge strane,

sa upečatljivim anegdotskim glavnim likom i konciznim krajnjim navodom

with a telling anecdotal lead and a pithy final quote,

all of which readers are keen to mine for bias.

u čemu su čitaoci skloni da nađu predrasude.

But our dialogue-based process has a slower pace and a different center.

Ali naš proces zasnovan na dijalogu ima sporiji tempo i drugačije jezgro.

And our work is guided by the principle

Naš rad se rukovodi principom da je dijalog među različitim stranama

that dialogue across difference is essential to a functioning democracy,

suštinski bitan za funkcionalnu demokratiju,

and that journalism and journalists have a multifaceted role to play

i da novinarstvo i novinari imaju višestruku ulogu

in supporting that.

u pružanju potpore tome.

So how do we work?

Pa, kako radimo?

At every stage, we're as transparent as possible

U svakoj fazi, transparentni smo što je više moguće

about our methods and our motives.

u pogledu naših metoda i motiva.

At every stage, we take time to answer people's questions --

U svakoj fazi izdvajamo vreme da odgovorimo na pitanja ljudi -

explain why we're doing what we're doing.

da objasnimo zašto radimo to što radimo.

We tell people that it's not a trap:

Govorimo ljudima da nije u pitanju zamka -

no one's there to tell you you're stupid,

niko vam neće reći da ste glupi,

no one's there to tell you your experience doesn't matter.

niko nije tu da vam kaže da vaše iskustvo nije bitno.

And we always ask for a really different sort of behavior,

I uvek tražimo zaista drugačije ponašanje,

a repatterning away from the reflexive name-calling,

udaljavanje od refleksnog etiketiranja,

so entrenched in our discourse

toliko ukorenjenog u našem govoru

that most of us, on all sides, don't even notice it anymore.

da ga većina nas, na svim stranama, više ni ne primećuje.

So people often come into our conversations a bit angrily.

Ljudi često pomalo ljutito stupaju u naše razgovore.

Govore stvari kao što su: „Kako možete da verujete X?“

They say things like, "How can you believe X?"

and "How can you read Y?"

„Kako možete da čitate Y?“

and "Can you believe that this happened?"

i „Možete li da verujete da se ovo desilo?“

But generally, in this miracle that delights us every time,

Ali uopšteno, u ovom čudu koje nas svaki put oduševi,

people begin to introduce themselves.

ljudi počinju da se predstavljaju.

And they begin to explain who they are and where they come from,

Počinju da objašnjavaju ko su i odakle dolaze,

and they begin to ask questions of one another.

i počinju da jedni drugima postavljaju pitanja.

And slowly, over time, people circle back again and again to difficult topics,

I polako, vremenom, ljudi se stalno vraćaju na teške teme,

each time with a little more empathy, a little more nuance,

svaki put sa malo više empatije, malo više suptilnosti,

a little more curiosity.

malo više radoznalosti.

And our journalists and moderators work really hard to support this

Naši novinari i moderatori naporno rade da to podrže

jer to nije debata, nije borba,

because it's not a debate, it's not a battle,

it's not a Sunday morning talk show.

nije nedeljni jutarnji program.

It's not the flinging of talking points.

Nije nabacivanje argumenata.

It's not the stacking of memes and gifs

To nije gomilanje memova, gifova

or articles with headlines that prove a point.

ili članaka sa naslovima da bi neko dokazao da je u pravu.

And it's not about scoring political victories with question traps.

Ne radi se ni o ostvarivanju političkih pobeda nezgodnim pitanjima.

So what we've learned is that our state of discord is bad for everyone.

Naučili smo da je naše stanje neslaganja loše za sve.

It is a deeply unhappy state of being.

To je duboko nesrećno stanje postojanja.

And people tell us this again and again.

Ljudi nam to uvek iznova govore.

They say they appreciate the chance to engage respectfully,

Kažu da cene priliku da komuniciraju sa poštovanjem,

with curiosity and with openness,

sa radoznalošću i otvorenošću,

and that they're glad and relieved for a chance to put down their arms.

da im je drago i da im je lakše jer imaju mogućnost da spuste oružje.

And so we do our work in direct challenge

Mi radimo svoj posao direktno se suprotstavljajući

to the political climate in our country right now,

aktuelnoj političkoj klimi u našoj zemlji,

and we do it knowing that it is difficult, challenging work

i to radimo znajući da je težak i zahtevan posao

to hold and support people in opposing backgrounds in conversation.

obuzdati i podržati ljude suprotstavljenih strana u razgovoru.

And we do it knowing democracy depends on our ability

Radimo to znajući da demokratija zavisi od naše sposobnosti

to address our shared problems together.

da se udruženo bavimo našim zajedničkim problemima.

And we do this work by putting community at the heart of our journalistic process,

To radimo tako što postavimo zajednicu u središte našeg novinarskog procesa,

by putting our egos to the side to listen first, to listen deeply,

tako što stavimo ego na stranu da bismo najpre slušali, duboko saslušali,

to listen around and through our own biases,

slušali pored i naspram svojih predrasuda,

our own habits of thought,

svojih navika u razmišljanju,

and to support others in doing the same.

i da bismo podržali druge da učine to isto.

And we do this work

Bavimo se ovim poslom

znajući da se novinarstvo kao institucija bori sa problemima,

knowing that journalism as an institution is struggling,

and that it has always had a role to play and will continue to have a role to play

da je uvek igralo ulogu i da će nastaviti da igra ulogu

in supporting the exchange of ideas and views.

u podržavanju razmene ideja i gledišta.

For many of the participants in our groups,

Za mnoge učesnike u našim grupama,

there are lasting reverberations.

postoje trajni ishodi.

Many people have become Facebook friends and in-real-life friends too,

Mnogi su postali prijatelji na Fejsbuku, kao i u stvarnom životu,

prelazeći političke granice.

across political lines.

After we closed that first Trump/Clinton project,

Nakon što smo okončali taj prvi projekat Tramp/Klinton,

about two-thirds of the women went on to form their own Facebook group

oko dve trećine žena je formiralo svoju grupu na Fejsbuku,

and they chose a moderator from each state

odabrale su moderatora iz svake države

and they continue to talk about difficult and challenging issues.

i nastavile da razgovaraju o teškim i problematičnim pitanjima.

People tell us again and again that they're grateful for the opportunity

Ljudi nam stalno iznova govore da su zahvalni na prilici

to be a part of this work,

da budu deo ovog rada,

zahvalni jer znaju da ljudi sa druge strane nisu ludi,

grateful to know that people on the other side aren't crazy,

grateful that they've had a chance to connect with people

zahvalni što su imali priliku da se povežu sa ljudima

they wouldn't have otherwise talked to.

sa kojima inače ne bi razgovarali.

A lot of what we've seen and learned,

Veliki deo onoga što smo videli i naučili,

despite the fact that we call ourselves Spaceship Media,

uprkos činjenici da se zovemo Mediji svemirskog broda,

is not at all rocket science.

uopšte nije nuklearna fizika.

If you call people names, if you label them, if you insult them,

Ako nazivate ljude ružnim imenima, ako ih etiketirate, ako ih vređate,

they are not inclined to listen to you.

neće vas rado slušati.

Snark doesn't help, shame doesn't help,

Oštra kritika ne pomaže, posramljivanje ne pomaže,

condescension doesn't help.

snishodljivost ne pomaže.

Genuine communication takes practice and effort

Istinska komunikacija zahteva vežbu, trud,

and restraint and self-awareness.

suzdržanost i samosvest.

There isn't an algorithm to solve where we are.

Ne postoji algoritam za rešavanje situacije u kojoj smo.

Because real human connection is in fact real human connection.

Jer prava ljudska veza je u stvari prava ljudska veza.

So lead with curiosity,

Dakle, vodite se radoznalošću,

naglašavajte diskusiju, a ne raspravu,

emphasize discussion not debate,

get out of your silo,

izađite iz svojih okvira,

because real connection across difference ...

jer prava povezanost između različitosti...

this is a salve that our democracy sorely needs.

to je melem koji je jako potreban našoj demokratiji.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)