How to lead a conversation between people who disagree | Eve Pearlman

Transcriber: Leslie Gauthier Reviewer: Joanna Pietrulewicz

翻译人员: psjmz mz 校对人员: Jin Ge

So in the run-up to the 2016 election,

在2016年大选的准备阶段，

我和大多数人一样，看到公众空间中

I was, like most of us, watching the rise in discord and vitriol

越来越多的不和，刻薄和肮脏。

and nastiness in our public spaces.

It was this crazy uptick in polarization.

这是两极分化的疯狂升级。

It was both disheartening and distressing.

既令人沮丧又让人苦恼。

And so I started thinking, with a fellow journalist, Jeremy Hay,

于是，我开始和一位名叫 杰里米·海伊的记者

about how we might practice our craft differently.

一起思考如何用不同的方式 应用我们的技巧。

How we might go to the heart of divides,

如何才能像记者们经常做的那样，

涉足分歧的中心，

to places of conflict,

like journalists always have,

到达冲突的地方。

but then, once there, do something really different.

而一旦到了那里， 做一些真正不同的事情。

We knew we wanted to take the core tools of our craft --

我们知道我们想要用核心技巧——

careful vetting of information, diligent research, curiosity,

认真审查资料，勤奋研究，充满好奇，

对公共利益的承诺——

a commitment to serving the public good --

to serving our democracy --

去服务我们的民主——

and do something new.

去做新的事情。

And so we mapped out this process,

于是我们想出了这个项目，

what we call dialogue journalism,

我们称之为对话新闻，

for going to the heart of social and political divides,

去触及社会和政治分歧的核心，

and then, once there, building journalism-supported conversations

一旦到了那一步， 就可以在对立的两派之间

between people on opposite sides of polarizing issues.

建立起由新闻业支持的的对话。

But how actually to do this in a world that's so divided,

但如何在如此分裂， 裂痕如此之深的世界中

去做这样的事？

so deeply divided --

when we live in a world

当我们所处的世界

堂兄弟姐妹和他们的 父母不彼此交谈，

in which cousins and aunts and uncles can't talk to one another,

when we often live in separate and distinct news ecosystems,

当我们常常生活在隔离 和不同的新闻生态系统中，

and when we reflexively and habitually malign and dismiss

并且当我们反射性地、习惯性地诋毁

those with whom we disagree?

和排斥那些与我们意见相左的人？

But we wanted to try.

但我们仍想要试试。

And so right after the 2016 election,

于是在2016年大选后，

in that time between the election and the inauguration,

在选举和就职典礼之间那段时间，

we partnered with the Alabama Media Group to do something really different.

我们和阿拉巴马媒体集团合作， 做了一些非常不同的事情。

We brought 25 Trump supporters from Alabama together

我们从阿拉巴马带来了 25位川普的支持者，

in conversation with 25 Clinton supporters from California.

与来自加州的25位 希拉里·克林顿的支持者进行对话。

And we brought them together in a closed, moderated Facebook group

我们把他们放到一个封闭的 有管理员的Facebook群组上，

that we kept open for a month.

观察了一个月。

What we wanted to do

我们想要做的是

was to give them a place to engage with genuine curiosity and openness.

给他们一个场所， 保持真诚的好奇和开放态度。

And we wanted to support them in building relationships,

并且我们想要帮助他们建立关系，

not just with each other but with us as journalists.

不仅在他们之间，并且和我们记者之间。

And then we wanted to supply facts and information --

然后我们想要提供事实和信息，

facts and information that they could actually receive and process

让他们可以节接受和思考，

并可以用来增强他们的谈资。

and use to undergird their conversations.

And so as a prelude to this conversation,

作为这次对话的引子，

the first step in what we call dialogue journalism,

这个我们称之为对话新闻的第一步，

we asked what they thought the other side thought of them.

我们询问他们认为对方会如何看待他们。

So when we asked the Trump supporters from Alabama

当我们问阿拉巴马的川普支持者

what they thought the Clinton supporters in California thought of them,

加州的希拉里支持者如何看待他们时，

this is some of what they said.

他们是这样说的：

"They think we are religious Bible thumpers."

“他们认为我们是狂热的宗教信徒。”

"That we're backwards and hickish, and stupid."

“我们是落后愚蠢的乡巴佬。”

"They think that we all have Confederate flags in our yards,

“他们认为我们的院子里 都是南方联盟的旗帜，

我们是种族主义者， 性别歧视者，没受过教育。”

that we're racist and sexist and uneducated."

"They think we're barefoot and pregnant, with dirt driveways."

“他们觉得在尘土飞扬的马路上 经常能看到赤脚和怀孕的人。”

"And they think we're all prissy butts

“他们认为我们都是乡巴佬，

穿着箍裙在棉花田中四处走动。”

and that we walk around in hoop skirts with cotton fields in the background."

And then we asked that same question of the Californians:

然后我们对加州的人问了同样的问题：

"What do you think the Alabamians think about you?"

“你们认为阿拉巴马的人会怎么看你们？”

And they said this: "That we're crazy, liberal Californians."

他们是这么说的： “我们是疯狂的，自由的加州人。”

"That we're not patriotic."

“我们不爱国。”

"We're snobby and we're elitist."

“我们势利，我们是所谓的精英。”

"We're godless and we're permissive with our children."

“我们不信神， 我们对孩子放任自由。”

"And that we're focused on our careers, not our family."

“我们关注工作，而不是家庭。”

"That we're elitist, pie-in-the-sky intellectuals,

“我们是精英主义者、空想家、

rich people, Whole Foods-eating,

有钱人、全食主义者，

very out of touch."

非常脱节。”

So by asking questions like this at the start of every conversation

所以通过在每次对话前 问这样的问题，

and by identifying and sharing stereotypes,

通过识别和分享刻板印象，

we find that people -- people on all sides --

我们发现人们——两边的人——

begin to see the simplistic and often mean-spirited caricatures they carry.

开始看到他们所携带的印象 往往是简单且刻薄的。

And in that --

在这之后，

after that, we can move into a process of genuine conversation.

我们开始了真正的对话。

So in the two years since that launch -- California/Alabama Project --

在加州/阿拉巴马项目发起的两年后——

we've gone on to host dialogues and partnerships

我们继续与全国各地的媒体组织

with media organizations across the country.

举办对话和开展合作。

他们一直在讨论一些最有争议的话题：

And they've been about some of our most contentious issues:

guns, immigration, race, education.

枪支，移民，种族，教育。

And what we found,

我们发现，

remarkably,

很明显，

is that real dialogue is in fact possible.

真正的对话实际上是可能的。

And that when given a chance and structure around doing so,

当有机会按这样的组织结构去做时，

many, not all, but many of our fellow citizens

很多，虽然不是全部， 但我们的很多公民

are eager to engage with the other.

非常渴望彼此互动。

Too often journalists have sharpened divides

记者常常激化分歧，

in the name of drama or readership or in service to our own views.

以因为戏剧化，迎合读者口味 或做出一些主观臆断更吸引眼球。

And too often we've gone to each side quoting a partisan voice on one side

我们常常站在两派的立场上， 一边引用一个党派的声音，

and a partisan voice on the other

另一边引用另一个党派的声音，

with a telling anecdotal lead and a pithy final quote,

并加上轶事式的开场和精辟的结束语，

所有的读者都热衷于挖掘偏见。

all of which readers are keen to mine for bias.

But our dialogue-based process has a slower pace and a different center.

但是，我们基于对话的过程 节奏较慢，而且主题繁杂。

And our work is guided by the principle

我们的工作是基于这个原则：

that dialogue across difference is essential to a functioning democracy,

直面差异的对话对民主很关键，

and that journalism and journalists have a multifaceted role to play

新闻业和记者可以发挥多方面的作用

进行支持。

in supporting that.

So how do we work?

那么我们究竟是如何运作的？

At every stage, we're as transparent as possible

在每个环节，我们都尽可能地

about our methods and our motives.

公开我们的方法和我们的动机。

At every stage, we take time to answer people's questions --

在每个环节，我们都抽时间 回答人们的问题——

explain why we're doing what we're doing.

解释我们为什么做，在做什么。

We tell people that it's not a trap:

我们告诉人们，不要担心：

no one's there to tell you you're stupid,

这里没人会说你很蠢，

no one's there to tell you your experience doesn't matter.

这里没人会说你的经历不重要。

And we always ask for a really different sort of behavior,

我们总是要求一种完全不同的行为，

a repatterning away from the reflexive name-calling,

避开习惯性的反身谩骂，

so entrenched in our discourse

这我们的语境中是如此根深蒂固，

that most of us, on all sides, don't even notice it anymore.

以至于所有阵营中的 大多数人甚至都没有注意到它。

So people often come into our conversations a bit angrily.

人们参与我们的对话时 往往都有些气愤。

他们往往带着这样的口吻： “你怎么会相信张三？”

They say things like, "How can you believe X?"

and "How can you read Y?"

和“你怎么会相信那种鬼话？”

and "Can you believe that this happened?"

以及“太让人难以置信了！”

But generally, in this miracle that delights us every time,

但总的来说，在这个每次 都让我们兴奋不已的奇迹中，

people begin to introduce themselves.

人们开始介绍他们自己。

And they begin to explain who they are and where they come from,

他们开始解释自己是谁，来自哪里，

and they begin to ask questions of one another.

并且开始相互问问题。

And slowly, over time, people circle back again and again to difficult topics,

慢慢的，随着时间推移， 人们循环参与不同的话题，

each time with a little more empathy, a little more nuance,

每次都会更富有同理心， 抓住更多的细微差异，

a little more curiosity.

更好奇。

And our journalists and moderators work really hard to support this

我们的记者和主持人在努力提供支持，

因为这不是辩论，不是战争，

because it's not a debate, it's not a battle,

it's not a Sunday morning talk show.

这不是周日早间脱口秀。

It's not the flinging of talking points.

不是卖弄词藻，

It's not the stacking of memes and gifs

更不应该用堆满表情包和动图

or articles with headlines that prove a point.

或者带标题的文章来证明自己的观点。

And it's not about scoring political victories with question traps.

这不是用问题陷阱 赢得政治胜利的套路。

So what we've learned is that our state of discord is bad for everyone.

所以我们了解到，不和谐状态 对所有人都是坏事。

It is a deeply unhappy state of being.

这种状态让所有人都感到沮丧。

And people tell us this again and again.

人们一再告诉我们这点。

They say they appreciate the chance to engage respectfully,

他们说，他们很感激有机会以尊重、

with curiosity and with openness,

好奇和开放的态度参与进来，

and that they're glad and relieved for a chance to put down their arms.

他们为有机会放下戒备 而感到高兴和宽慰。

And so we do our work in direct challenge

因此，我们的工作是直接挑战

to the political climate in our country right now,

我国内目前的政治气候，

and we do it knowing that it is difficult, challenging work

我们知道去举办和支持不同背景的人对话

to hold and support people in opposing backgrounds in conversation.

这是一项困难而有挑战性的工作。

And we do it knowing democracy depends on our ability

我们知道民主取决于我们

to address our shared problems together.

一起解决共同问题的能力。

And we do this work by putting community at the heart of our journalistic process,

我们做这个工作是通过把社群 放在我们新闻过程的中心，

by putting our egos to the side to listen first, to listen deeply,

通过把自我先放在一边， 先倾听，认真倾听，

to listen around and through our own biases,

倾听周围的声音，通过我们的偏见，

our own habits of thought,

我们自己的思维习惯，

and to support others in doing the same.

并且支持别人也这样做。

And we do this work

我们在行动的时候就知道

新闻业面对这个问题一直很挣扎，

knowing that journalism as an institution is struggling,

and that it has always had a role to play and will continue to have a role to play

它一直需要扮演， 并且要继续扮演

in supporting the exchange of ideas and views.

支持交换意见和观点的角色。

For many of the participants in our groups,

对我们队伍中的许多参与者而言，

there are lasting reverberations.

这产生了持续的影响。

Many people have become Facebook friends and in-real-life friends too,

很多人成为了Facebook的好友 和现实中的好友，

跨越了政治的边界。

across political lines.

After we closed that first Trump/Clinton project,

在我们关掉第一个川普/希拉里项目后，

about two-thirds of the women went on to form their own Facebook group

大约2/3的女性，开设了 她们自己的Facebook群组，

and they chose a moderator from each state

并且她们从每个州选了个主持人

and they continue to talk about difficult and challenging issues.

去继续讨论分歧和具有挑战的问题。

People tell us again and again that they're grateful for the opportunity

人们一次又一次地告诉我们， 他们很感激有这个机会

to be a part of this work,

成为这个项目中的一部分，

很庆幸知道另一边的人并非不可理喻，

grateful to know that people on the other side aren't crazy,

grateful that they've had a chance to connect with people

很高兴他们有机会能够跟

可能永远都不会去交流的人建立联系。

they wouldn't have otherwise talked to.

A lot of what we've seen and learned,

尽管我们称自己为宇宙飞船媒体，

despite the fact that we call ourselves Spaceship Media,

但我们看到和学到的很多东西，

is not at all rocket science.

并不是什么高深的学问。

If you call people names, if you label them, if you insult them,

如果你对人出言不逊，如果你给他们 贴上标签，如果你侮辱他们，

they are not inclined to listen to you.

他们就会倾向于对你置之不理。

Snark doesn't help, shame doesn't help,

恶声恶语帮不上忙，羞耻感没有用，

condescension doesn't help.

态度傲慢无更是雪上加霜。

Genuine communication takes practice and effort

真正的沟通需要练习、努力、

and restraint and self-awareness.

克制和自我觉悟。

There isn't an algorithm to solve where we are.

没有一个算法可以解决我们现在的处境。

Because real human connection is in fact real human connection.

因为真正的人际关系就是人际关系。

So lead with curiosity,

所以以好奇为指引，

emphasize discussion not debate,

强调讨论而非争执，

get out of your silo,

避免坐井观天，

because real connection across difference ...

因为跨越分歧的真正连接——

this is a salve that our democracy sorely needs.

正是我们民主迫切需要的一剂强心针。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）