James Watson: How we discovered DNA

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Well, I thought there would be a podium, so I'm a bit scared.

Dobro, mislio sam da će ovdje biti podij pa sam malo prestravljen.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Chris asked me to tell again how we found the structure of DNA.

Chris me zamolio da ponovno ispričam kako smo otkrili strukturu DNK.

And since, you know, I follow his orders, I'll do it.

I s obzirom da ja, kao što znate, slijedim njegova naređenja, to ću i učiniti.

But it slightly bores me.

Ali to mi je malo dosadno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And, you know, I wrote a book. So I'll say something --

I, kao što znate, napisao sam knjigu. Pa ću reći nešto—

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

-- I'll say a little about, you know, how the discovery was made,

– reći ću malo o, znate, tome kako se dogodilo otkriće

and why Francis and I found it.

te zašto smo Francis i ja to otkrili.

And then, I hope maybe I have at least five minutes to say

I onda, možda ću imati barem pet minuta da kažem

what makes me tick now.

što me sada zaokuplja.

In back of me is a picture of me when I was 17.

Iza mene je moja fotografija kad sam imao 17 godina.

I was at the University of Chicago, in my third year,

Bio sam na Sveučilištu Chicago, na trećoj godini

and I was in my third year because the University of Chicago

zato što vam Sveučilište Chicago

let you in after two years of high school.

dozvoljava upis nakon dvije godine srednje škole.

So you -- it was fun to get away from high school -- (Laughter) --

Dakle – bilo je zabavno pobjeći iz srednje škole.

because I was very small, and I was no good in sports,

Zato što sam bio jako malen i nisu mi išli sportovi

or anything like that.

ili bilo što poput toga.

But I should say that my background -- my father was, you know,

No moram reći da je moj odgoj – znate, moj otac je

raised to be an Episcopalian and Republican,

bio odgojen kao episkopejac i republikanac.

but after one year of college, he became an atheist and a Democrat.

No nakon prve godine fakulteta postao je ateist i demokrat.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And my mother was Irish Catholic,

A moja majka bila je irska katolkinja,

and -- but she didn't take religion too seriously.

no - nije uzimala religiju previše ozbiljno.

And by the age of 11, I was no longer going to Sunday Mass,

I tako nakon 11-te godine, više nisam pohađao nedjeljnu misu

and going on birdwatching walks with my father.

niti išao promatrati ptice sa svojim ocem.

So early on, I heard of Charles Darwin.

Vrlo rano čuo sam za Charlesa Darwina.

I guess, you know, he was the big hero.

Pretpostavljam da znate, on je bio veliki heroj.

And, you know, you understand life as it now exists through evolution.

I, kao što znate, današnje shvaćanje života podrazumijeva evoluciju.

And at the University of Chicago I was a zoology major,

A na Sveučilištu Chicago moj glavni predmet bila je biologija.

and thought I would end up, you know, if I was bright enough,

I mislio sam da ću završiti, znate, ako budem dovoljno bistar,

maybe getting a Ph.D. from Cornell in ornithology.

sa doktoratom iz ornitologije na Cornell-u.

Then, in the Chicago paper, there was a review of a book

Tada je u čikaškim novinama izašao osvrt na knjigu

called "What is Life?" by the great physicist, Schrodinger.

„Što je život?“ slavnog fizičara Schrodingera.

And that, of course, had been a question I wanted to know.

I to je, naravno, bilo pitanje na koje sam htio znati odgovor.

You know, Darwin explained life after it got started,

Kao što znate, Darwin je objasnio život nakon što je on već započeo,

but what was the essence of life?

ali što je osnova života?

And Schrodinger said the essence was information

A Schrodinger je rekao da je osnova informacija

present in our chromosomes, and it had to be present

sadržana u našim kromosomima, te da mora biti sadržana

on a molecule. I'd never really thought of molecules before.

u molekulama. Nikad prije nisam pomišljao na molekule.

You know chromosomes, but this was a molecule,

Znate kromosomi su ustvari molekule,

and somehow all the information was probably present

a informacija je vjerojatno bila prisutna

in some digital form. And there was the big question

u digitalnom obliku. I veliko je pitanje bilo,

of, how did you copy the information?

kako kopirate tu informaciju?

So that was the book. And so, from that moment on,

To je bila knjiga. I tako sam od tog trenutka

I wanted to be a geneticist --

htio biti genetičar –

understand the gene and, through that, understand life.

razumjeti gene i kroz njih razumjeti život.

So I had, you know, a hero at a distance.

Tako sam, znate, imao svog heroja na distanci.

It wasn't a baseball player; it was Linus Pauling.

To nije bio igrač bejzbola, to je bio Linus Pauling.

And so I applied to Caltech and they turned me down.

I tako sam predao molbu na Caltech, a oni su me odbili.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So I went to Indiana,

Onda sam otišao na Indianu

which was actually as good as Caltech in genetics,

koja je bila jednako dobra kao i Caltech u genetici,

and besides, they had a really good basketball team. (Laughter)

a osim toga imali su i stvarno dobru košarkašku momčad.

So I had a really quite happy life at Indiana.

Imao sam stvarno sretan život u Indiani.

And it was at Indiana I got the impression

I upravo sam u Indiani dobio utisak

that, you know, the gene was likely to be DNA.

da bi, znate, geni mogli biti DNK.

And so when I got my Ph.D., I should go and search for DNA.

I zato sam, kad sam obranio doktorat, otišao u potragu za DNK.

So I first went to Copenhagen because I thought, well,

Tako sam prvo otišao u Copenhagen zato što sam mislio, dobro,

maybe I could become a biochemist,

možda bih mogao postati biokemičar.

but I discovered biochemistry was very boring.

No otkrio sam da je biokemija jako dosadna.

It wasn't going anywhere toward, you know, saying what the gene was;

Nije išla prema ničemu, znate, onome što su geni.

it was just nuclear science. And oh, that's the book, little book.

Bila je samo znanost o jezgri. I onda, tu je bila knjiga, mala knjiga.

You can read it in about two hours.

Možete ju pročitati za oko dva sata.

And -- but then I went to a meeting in Italy.

I - tada sam otišao na skup u Italiji.

And there was an unexpected speaker who wasn't on the program,

A tamo je bio neočekivani predavač, kojega nije bilo u programu,

and he talked about DNA.

a on je govorio o DNK.

And this was Maurice Wilkins. He was trained as a physicist,

Bio je to Maurice Wilkins. On je bio školovani fizičar,

and after the war he wanted to do biophysics, and he picked DNA

a nakon rata htio se baviti biofizikom i odabrao je DNK

because DNA had been determined at the Rockefeller Institute

jer je DNK bila utvrđena na Institutu Rockefeller

to possibly be the genetic molecules on the chromosomes.

kao moguća molekula genetičkog materijala u kromosomima.

Most people believed it was proteins.

Većina ljudi vjerovala je da su to bili proteini.

But Wilkins, you know, thought DNA was the best bet,

No Wilkins je, znate, mislio da je to najvjerojatnije DNK

and he showed this x-ray photograph.

i pokazao je tu fotografiju X-zrakama.

Sort of crystalline. So DNA had a structure,

Neka vrsta kristala. Dakle taj je DNK imao strukturu,

even though it owed it to probably different molecules

premda se radilo vjerojatno o različitim molekulama

carrying different sets of instructions.

koje su nosile različite setove uputa.

So there was something universal about the DNA molecule.

I tako je bilo nešto univerzalno u DNK molekulama.

So I wanted to work with him, but he didn't want a former birdwatcher,

I zato sam želio raditi s njim, ali on nije htio bivšeg promatrača ptica

and I ended up in Cambridge, England.

pa sam završio na Cambridge-u u Engleskoj.

So I went to Cambridge,

Dakle, otišao sam na Cambridge

because it was really the best place in the world then

zato što je to tada bilo stvarno najbolje mjesto na svijetu

for x-ray crystallography. And x-ray crystallography is now a subject

za kristalografiju x-zrakama. A kristalografija x-zrakama sada je predmet,

in, you know, chemistry departments.

kao što znate, odjela za kemiju.

I mean, in those days it was the domain of the physicists.

Mislim, u to vrijeme, bila je domena fizičara.

So the best place for x-ray crystallography

Zato je najbolje mjesto za kristalografiju x-zrakama

was at the Cavendish Laboratory at Cambridge.

bio Cavendish-ov laboratorij na Cambridge-u.

And there I met Francis Crick.

I tamo sam upoznao Francisa Cricka.

I went there without knowing him. He was 35. I was 23.

Otišao sam tamo, a da ga prije nisam poznavao. Bilo mu je 35, meni 23.

And within a day, we had decided that

I u samo jednom danu, odlučili smo da bismo

maybe we could take a shortcut to finding the structure of DNA.

možda trebali prečicom pronaći strukturu DNK.

Not solve it like, you know, in rigorous fashion, but build a model,

Ne riješiti ju, znate, u onom krutom značenju, već izgraditi model.

an electro-model, using some coordinates of, you know,

Jedan atomski model koristeći se nekim koordinatama, znate,

length, all that sort of stuff from x-ray photographs.

duljinama i tom vrstom podataka iz fotografija x-zrakama.

But just ask what the molecule -- how should it fold up?

Samo se pitati što je ta molekula - kako bi trebala izgledati?

And the reason for doing so, at the center of this photograph,

A razlog da to napravimo, u središtu ove fotografije,

is Linus Pauling. About six months before, he proposed

je Linus Pauling. Otprilike šest mjeseci prije, on je predložio

the alpha helical structure for proteins. And in doing so,

strukturu alfa uzvojnice za proteine. I radeći to,

he banished the man out on the right,

on je isključio čovjeka sa desne strane,

Sir Lawrence Bragg, who was the Cavendish professor.

Sir Lawrencea Bragga, koji je bio Cavendishov profesor.

This is a photograph several years later,

Ovo je fotografija nekoliko godina kasnije,

when Bragg had cause to smile.

kad je Bragg dobio razlog da se nasmije.

He certainly wasn't smiling when I got there,

On se svakako nije smijao kad sam ja došao tamo,

because he was somewhat humiliated by Pauling getting the alpha helix,

zato što je bio donekle ponižen Paulingovom alfa uzvojnicom,

and the Cambridge people failing because they weren't chemists.

a ljudi sa Cambridgea su podbacili jer nisu bili kemičari.

And certainly, neither Crick or I were chemists,

I svakako, niti Crick niti ja nismo bili kemičari

so we tried to build a model. And he knew, Francis knew Wilkins.

te smo samo pokušali izraditi model. A on je znao, Francis je poznavao Wilkinsa.

So Wilkins said he thought it was the helix.

Tako je Wilkins rekao kako on misli da je uzvojnica.

X-ray diagram, he thought was comparable with the helix.

Prikaz x-zrakama, on je mislio, usporediv je sa uzvojnicom.

So we built a three-stranded model.

Tako smo izgradili model od tri niti.

The people from London came up.

Došli su nam ljudi iz Londona.

Wilkins and this collaborator, or possible collaborator,

Wilkins i njegova suradnica, ili moguća suradnica,

Rosalind Franklin, came up and sort of laughed at our model.

Rosalind Franklin, došli su i na neki način ismijali naš model.

They said it was lousy, and it was.

Rekli su da je loš, a i bio je.

So we were told to build no more models; we were incompetent.

Rekli su nam da više ne izrađujemo modele; da smo nesposobni.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh).

And so we didn't build any models,

I tako mi nismo izgradili više modela,

and Francis sort of continued to work on proteins.

a Francis se na neki način vratio poslu na proteinima.

And basically, I did nothing. And -- except read.

U osnovi, ja nisam radio ništa. Osim što sam čitao.

You know, basically, reading is a good thing; you get facts.

Kao što znate, čitanje je dobra stvar; dođete do činjenica.

And we kept telling the people in London

I nastavili smo govoriti ljudima u Londonu

that Linus Pauling's going to move on to DNA.

kako će Linus Pauling prijeći na DNK.

If DNA is that important, Linus will know it.

Ako je DNK toliko važna, Linus bi znao.

He'll build a model, and then we're going to be scooped.

On će izraditi model i onda ćemo mi opet biti pometeni.

And, in fact, he'd written the people in London:

A, u stvari, on je pisao ljudima u Londonu:

Could he see their x-ray photograph?

Može li vidjeti njihove fotografije x-zrakama?

And they had the wisdom to say "no." So he didn't have it.

A oni su bili dovoljno mudri da odgovore "ne." I tako ih on nije vidio.

But there was ones in the literature.

Ali bilo ih je u literaturi.

Actually, Linus didn't look at them that carefully.

Ustvari, Linus ih nije dovoljno pažljivo pogledao.

But about, oh, 15 months after I got to Cambridge,

A onda, otprilike 15 mjeseci nakon što sam došao na Cambridge,

a rumor began to appear from Linus Pauling's son,

počele su se širiti glasine od sina Linus Paulinga,

who was in Cambridge, that his father was now working on DNA.

koji je bio na Cambridge-u, koji je govorio da njegov otac sad radi na DNK.

And so, one day Peter came in and he said he was Peter Pauling,

I tako, jednog je dana Peter navratio i rekao kako je on Peter Pauling

and he gave me a copy of his father's manuscripts.

i dao mi je kopiju očevih rukopisa.

And boy, I was scared because I thought, you know, we may be scooped.

I čovječe, al sam bio preplašen jer sam mislio, znate, opet bismo mogli biti pometeni.

I have nothing to do, no qualifications for anything.

A ja nisam imao ništa za raditi, ni predispozicije za bilo što.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And so there was the paper, and he proposed a three-stranded structure.

I tako bio je taj članak u kojem je on pretpostavio strukturu od tri niti.

And I read it, and it was just -- it was crap.

I ja sam pročitao, i to je bila – obična besmislica.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So this was, you know, unexpected from the world's --

To je to bilo neočekivano od svjetski –

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

-- and so, it was held together by hydrogen bonds

– držalo se skupa vodikovim vezama

between phosphate groups.

između fosfatnih skupina.

Well, if the peak pH that cells have is around seven,

Dakle, ako je maksimalni pH u stanici oko sedam,

those hydrogen bonds couldn't exist.

te vodikove veze ne mogu postojati.

We rushed over to the chemistry department and said,

Požurili smo na zavod za kemiju i pitali,

"Could Pauling be right?" And Alex Hust said, "No." So we were happy.

„Može li Pauling biti u pravu?“ A Alex Hust je odgovorio, „Ne.“ I mi smo bili sretni.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And, you know, we were still in the game, but we were frightened

I kao što znate, još smo bili u igri, ali nas je plašilo

that somebody at Caltech would tell Linus that he was wrong.

da će netko sa Caltech-a Linusu reći da nije u pravu.

And so Bragg said, "Build models."

A onda je Bragg rekao, „Izgradite modele.“

And a month after we got the Pauling manuscript --

I samo mjesec dana nakon što smo vidjeli Paulingov rukopis –

I should say I took the manuscript to London, and showed the people.

trebao bih reći da sam odnio rukopis u London i pokazao ga ljudima.

Well, I said, Linus was wrong and that we're still in the game

Dakle, rekao sam kako Linus nije bio u pravu i da smo mi još uvijek u igri

and that they should immediately start building models.

i da smjesta moraju početi raditi modele.

But Wilkins said "no." Rosalind Franklin was leaving in about two months,

No Wilkins je rekao ne, Rosalind Frenklin je odlazila za dva mjeseca

and after she left he would start building models.

i nakon što ona ode on će početi graditi modele.

And so I came back with that news to Cambridge,

I tako sam ja došao natrag u Cambridge s tom vijesti,

and Bragg said, "Build models."

a Bragg je rekao, „Izgradite modele.“

Well, of course, I wanted to build models.

Dakle, naravno, ja sam htio napraviti modele.

And there's a picture of Rosalind. She really, you know,

A evo slike Rosalind. Ona je stvarno, znate,

in one sense she was a chemist,

na neki način bila kemičarka,

but really she would have been trained --

ali trebala je biti poučena -

she didn't know any organic chemistry or quantum chemistry.

nije znala ništa organske kemije ili kvantne kemije.

She was a crystallographer.

Ona je bila kristalograf.

And I think part of the reason she didn't want to build models

Mislim da je dio razloga što nije htjela praviti modele

was, she wasn't a chemist, whereas Pauling was a chemist.

bio taj što ona nije bila kemičar, a Pauling jest.

And so Crick and I, you know, started building models,

Tako smo Crick i ja, znate, počeli praviti modele

and I'd learned a little chemistry, but not enough.

i ja sam naučio malo kemije, ali ne dovoljno.

Well, we got the answer on the 28th February '53.

Dobili smo odgovor 28. veljače 1953.

And it was because of a rule, which, to me, is a very good rule:

I to zbog pravila, koje je za mene jako dobro pravilo:

Never be the brightest person in a room, and we weren't.

Nikad nemoj biti najpametnija osoba u prostoriji, a mi to nismo bili.

We weren't the best chemists in the room.

Nismo bili najbolji kemičari u prostoriji.

I went in and showed them a pairing I'd done,

Ušao sam i pokazao sparivanje koje sam napravio

and Jerry Donohue -- he was a chemist -- he said, it's wrong.

i Jerry Donohue - koji je bio kemičar - rekao mi je da je to krivo.

You've got -- the hydrogen atoms are in the wrong place.

Imaš - atome vodika na krivim mjestima.

I just put them down like they were in the books.

Stavio sam ih kako su stajali u knjigama.

He said they were wrong.

Rekao je da je krivo.

So the next day, you know, after I thought, "Well, he might be right."

Sljedeći dan, znate, nakon što sam pomislio, „Mogao bi biti u pravu.“

So I changed the locations, and then we found the base pairing,

Promijenio sam mjesta i onda smo otkrili sparivanje baza

and Francis immediately said the chains run in absolute directions.

i Francis je odmah rekao da lanci idu u suprotnim smjerovima.

And we knew we were right.

I znali smo da smo u pravu.

So it was a pretty, you know, it all happened in about two hours.

Bilo je to prilično, znate, sve se dogodilo u otprilike dva sata.

From nothing to thing.

Od ničega do nečega.

And we knew it was big because, you know, if you just put A next to T

I znali smo da je veliko jer, znate, ako samo stavite A do T

and G next to C, you have a copying mechanism.

i G do C, imate mehanizam kopiranja.

So we saw how genetic information is carried.

Vidjeli smo kako se genetska informacija prenosi.

It's the order of the four bases.

To je redoslijed četiriju baza.

So in a sense, it is a sort of digital-type information.

To je, na jedan način, digitalan oblik informacija.

And you copy it by going from strand-separating.

Kopirate ih krenuvši od razdvajanja lanaca.

So, you know, if it didn't work this way, you might as well believe it,

Tako da, znate, ako nije radilo na ovaj način, mogli biste i vjerovati u to

because you didn't have any other scheme.

jer niste imali ni jedan drugi model.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But that's not the way most scientists think.

Ali to nije način na koji većina znanstvenika razmišlja.

Most scientists are really rather dull.

Većina znanstvenika je prilično dosadna.

They said, we won't think about it until we know it's right.

Rekli su, nećemo razmišljati o tome dok ne znamo da je to točno.

But, you know, we thought, well, it's at least 95 percent right or 99 percent right.

Ali, znate, mislili smo, pa, to je barem 95 posto točno ili 99 posto točno.

So think about it. The next five years,

Zato razmislite o tome. Sljedećih pet godina,

there were essentially something like five references

imali smo praktički pet referenci

to our work in "Nature" -- none.

na naš rad u Nature-u - to je ništa.

And so we were left by ourselves,

Bili smo ostavljeni sami sebi

and trying to do the last part of the trio: how do you --

i pokušavali smo otkriti zadnji dio trojca: kako -

what does this genetic information do?

što ta genetska informacija radi?

It was pretty obvious that it provided the information

Bilo je prilično jasno da daje informaciju

to an RNA molecule, and then how do you go from RNA to protein?

za RNK molekulu, a kako dođeš od RNK do proteina?

For about three years we just -- I tried to solve the structure of RNA.

Otprilike tri godine smo samo - pokušao sam riješiti strukturu RNK.

It didn't yield. It didn't give good x-ray photographs.

Nije išlo. Nije davala dobre rengenske slike.

I was decidedly unhappy; a girl didn't marry me.

Bio sam izrazito nesretan; djevojka se nije udala za mene.

It was really, you know, sort of a shitty time.

Bilo je to, znate, priično loše razdoblje.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So there's a picture of Francis and I before I met the girl,

Evo slike Francisa i mene prije nego što sam upoznao tu djevojku

so I'm still looking happy.

pa još uvijek izgledam sretno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But there is what we did when we didn't know

Evo što smo radili kad nismo znali što

where to go forward: we formed a club and called it the RNA Tie Club.

raditi dalje: osnovali smo klub i zvali smo ga Klub RNK kravata.

George Gamow, also a great physicist, he designed the tie.

George Gamow, sjajan fizičar, dizajnirao je kravatu.

He was one of the members. The question was:

Bio je jedan od naših članova. Pitanje je bilo:

How do you go from a four-letter code

kako doći od četveroznamenkastog koda

to the 20-letter code of proteins?

do dvadeseteroznamenkastog koda proteina?

Feynman was a member, and Teller, and friends of Gamow.

Feynman je bio član i Teller i Gamowljevi prijatelji.

But that's the only -- no, we were only photographed twice.

Ali ovo je jedini - ne, samo su nas dvaput slikali.

And on both occasions, you know, one of us was missing the tie.

I oba puta netko od nas nije imao kravatu.

There's Francis up on the upper right,

Evo Francis gore desno

and Alex Rich -- the M.D.-turned-crystallographer -- is next to me.

i Alex Rich – liječnik koji je postao kristalograf – je kraj mene.

This was taken in Cambridge in September of 1955.

Ovo je slikano na Cambridgeu u rujnu 1955.

And I'm smiling, sort of forced, I think,

Smješkam se, pomalo nasilu, barem mislim,

because the girl I had, boy, she was gone.

jer je djevojka koju sam imao otišla.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And so I didn't really get happy until 1960,

Tako da nisam baš bio sretan do 1960.,

because then we found out, basically, you know,

jer smo onda zapravo otkrili, znate,

that there are three forms of RNA.

da postoje tri oblika RNK.

And we knew, basically, DNA provides the information for RNA.

Znali smo, u biti, da DNK daje informaciju za RNK.

RNA provides the information for protein.

RNK daje informaciju za proteine.

And that let Marshall Nirenberg, you know, take RNA -- synthetic RNA --

I to je dovelo Marshalla Nirenberga, znate, da uzme RNK - sintetičku RNK -

put it in a system making protein. He made polyphenylalanine,

i stavi ju u sustav za stvaranje proteina. Stvorio je polifenilalanin,

polyphenylalanine. So that's the first cracking of the genetic code,

polifenilalanin. To je bilo prvo razbijanje genetskog koda.

and it was all over by 1966.

I završilo je 1966.

So there, that's what Chris wanted me to do, it was --

Eto, to je ono što je Chris htio da radim -

so what happened since then?

što se dogodilo otad?

Well, at that time -- I should go back.

Pa, u to vrijeme trebao bih se vratiti.

When we found the structure of DNA, I gave my first talk

Kad smo otkrili strukturu DNK, održao sam prvi govor

at Cold Spring Harbor. The physicist, Leo Szilard,

u Cold Springs Harboru. Fizičar, Leo Szilard

he looked at me and said, "Are you going to patent this?"

me pogledao i rekao, „Hoćeš li ovo patentirati?“

And -- but he knew patent law, and that we couldn't patent it,

A - znao je zakon o patentima, nismo to mogli patentirati

because you couldn't. No use for it.

jer nije bilo koristi od toga.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And so DNA didn't become a useful molecule,

I tako DNK nije postala korisna melekula

and the lawyers didn't enter into the equation until 1973,

i odvjetnici ju nisu uzeli u računicu do 1973.

20 years later, when Boyer and Cohen in San Francisco

20 godina kasnije kad su Boyer i Cohen iz San Francisca

and Stanford came up with their method of recombinant DNA,

i Stanforda došli do metode rekombinantne DNK

and Stanford patented it and made a lot of money.

i Stanford ju je patentirao i zaradio mnogo novca.

At least they patented something

Barem su patentirali nešto što može,

which, you know, could do useful things.

znate, raditi korisne stvari.

And then, they learned how to read the letters for the code.

I onda, naučili su čitati slova koda.

And, boom, we've, you know, had a biotech industry. And,

I, bum, odjednom smo imali biotehnološku industriju. Ali,

but we were still a long ways from, you know,

bili smo još uvijek daleko

answering a question which sort of dominated my childhood,

od odgovora na pitanje koje je dominiralo mojim djetinjstvom,

which is: How do you nature-nurture?

a to je: Kako se priroda razvija?

And so I'll go on. I'm already out of time,

Nastavit ću. Već sam ostao bez vremena,

but this is Michael Wigler, a very, very clever mathematician

ali ovo je Michael Wigler, vrlo, vrlo pametan matematičar

turned physicist. And he developed a technique

koji je postao fizičar. Razvio je tehniku

which essentially will let us look at sample DNA

koja nam omogućava da pogledamo uzorak DNK

and, eventually, a million spots along it.

i milijun točaka po njoj.

There's a chip there, a conventional one. Then there's one

Evo ondje čip, jedan uobičajeni. Eno i jednog

made by a photolithography by a company in Madison

napravljenog fotolitografijom tvrtke Madison

called NimbleGen, which is way ahead of Affymetrix.

a zove se NimbleGen, koji je znatno napredniji od Affymetrixa.

And we use their technique.

Koristimo njihovu tehnologiju.

And what you can do is sort of compare DNA of normal segs versus cancer.

I ono što možemo raditi je uspoređivati normalne odsječke DNK i odsječke raka.

And you can see on the top

Možete vidjeti na vrhu da odsječci

that cancers which are bad show insertions or deletions.

raka koji su loši pokazuju ubacivanja i brisanja.

So the DNA is really badly mucked up,

Tako da je DNK prilično uništena,

whereas if you have a chance of surviving,

ali ako imate šansu za preživljavanje,

the DNA isn't so mucked up.

DNK i nije toliko uništena.

So we think that this will eventually lead to what we call

Mislimo da će nas ovo na kraju dovesti do nečega što zovemo

"DNA biopsies." Before you get treated for cancer,

"DNK biopsije." Prije nego što se počneš liječiti od raka,

you should really look at this technique,

trebao bi proučiti ovu metodu

and get a feeling of the face of the enemy.

i steći sliku o svom neprijatelju.

It's not a -- it's only a partial look, but it's a --

Nije to - to je samo djelomičan pogled, ali je -

I think it's going to be very, very useful.

mislim da će biti jako korisno.

So, we started with breast cancer

Počeli smo s rakom dojke

because there's lots of money for it, no government money.

jer ima mnogo novca za njega, bez vladinog novca.

And now I have a sort of vested interest:

Sad imam osobni interes:

I want to do it for prostate cancer. So, you know,

želim to napraviti za rak prostate. Tako vas

you aren't treated if it's not dangerous.

neće liječiti ako nije opasno.

But Wigler, besides looking at cancer cells, looked at normal cells,

Ali Wigler je, osim gledanja u stanice raka

and made a really sort of surprising observation.

pogledao i u normalne stanice i donio iznenađujuće opažanje.

Which is, all of us have about 10 places in our genome

To je da svi mi imamo otprilike 10 mjesta u genomu

where we've lost a gene or gained another one.

gdje smo dobili ili izgubili gen.

So we're sort of all imperfect. And the question is well,

Tako da smo svi na neki način nesavršeni. Pitanje je,

if we're around here, you know,

ako smo već ovdje, znate,

these little losses or gains might not be too bad.

ovi mali gubitci ili dobitci možda nisu tako strašni.

But if these deletions or amplifications occurred in the wrong gene,

Ali ako se brisanje ili amplifikacija dogode u krivom genu,

maybe we'll feel sick.

možda ćemo se razboljeti.

So the first disease he looked at is autism.

Prva bolest koju smo pogledali je autizam.

And the reason we looked at autism is we had the money to do it.

Razlog zbog kojeg smo proučavali autizam je taj što smo imali novaca za to.

Looking at an individual is about 3,000 dollars. And the parent of a child

Proučavanje pojedinca stoji otprilike 3.000 dolara. A roditelj djeteta

with Asperger's disease, the high-intelligence autism,

s Aspergerovom bolesti, autizma s visokom inteligencijom,

had sent his thing to a conventional company; they didn't do it.

poslao je svoju stvar nekoj tvrtci koja to nije obavila.

Couldn't do it by conventional genetics, but just scanning it

Nismo to mogli obaviti konvencionalnom genetikom, već samo skenirajući

we began to find genes for autism.

počeli smo otkrivati gene za autizam.

And you can see here, there are a lot of them.

Možete ovdje vidjeti da ih ima mnogo.

So a lot of autistic kids are autistic

Mnogo je djece autistično

because they just lost a big piece of DNA.

zato što su izgubili velike dijelove DNK.

I mean, big piece at the molecular level.

Mislim, velike dijelove na molekularnoj razini.

We saw one autistic kid,

Vidjeli smo jedno autistično dijete

about five million bases just missing from one of his chromosomes.

kojemu je otprilike pet milijuna baza nedostajalo iz kromosoma.

We haven't yet looked at the parents, but the parents probably

Nismo još proučili roditelje, iako vjerojatno roditelji

don't have that loss, or they wouldn't be parents.

nemaju taj gubitak jer inače ne bi bili roditelji.

Now, so, our autism study is just beginning. We got three million dollars.

Sad, dakle, naše proučavanje autizma tek počinje. Dobili smo 3 milijuna dolara.

I think it will cost at least 10 to 20 before you'd be in a position

Mislim da će koštati barem 10 ili 20 prije nego što ćemo biti u poziciji

to help parents who've had an autistic child,

pomoći roditeljima koji imaju autistično dijete

or think they may have an autistic child,

ili misle da bi mogli imati autistično dijete,

and can we spot the difference?

a da mi možemo otkriti razliku?

So this same technique should probably look at all.

Ova bi tehnika trebala vjerojatno gledati na sve.

It's a wonderful way to find genes.

To je prekrasan način traženja gena.

And so, I'll conclude by saying

I tako, završit ću tako što ću reći

we've looked at 20 people with schizophrenia.

da smo proučili 20 osoba sa shizofrenijom.

And we thought we'd probably have to look at several hundred

I mislili smo da ćemo morati proučiti nekoliko stotina

before we got the picture. But as you can see,

prije nego što shvatimo bit. Ali kako možete vidjeti,

there's seven out of 20 had a change which was very high.

sedam od dvadeset ima veliku vjerojatnost.

And yet, in the controls there were three.

A opet, u kontrolnoj grupi bilo ih je troje.

So what's the meaning of the controls?

Koje je značenje kontrolne skupine?

Were they crazy also, and we didn't know it?

Jesu li i oni također ludi, a mi to nismo znali?

Or, you know, were they normal? I would guess they're normal.

Ili su, znate, ipak normalni? Rekao bih da su normalni.

And what we think in schizophrenia is there are genes of predisposure,

I što mislimo o shizofreniji je to da postoje geni za predispoziciju,

and whether this is one that predisposes --

i ovisno je li ovaj taj koji predisponira -

and then there's only a sub-segment of the population

onda postoji samo subsegment populacije

that's capable of being schizophrenic.

koji je sposoban biti shizofreničan.

Now, we don't have really any evidence of it,

Sad, nemamo doista dokaze za to,

but I think, to give you a hypothesis, the best guess

ali mislim, dat ću vam hipotezu,

is that if you're left-handed, you're prone to schizophrenia.

ako ste ljevak, skloniji ste shizofreniji.

30 percent of schizophrenic people are left-handed,

30 posto shizofreničara su ljevaci,

and schizophrenia has a very funny genetics,

a shizofrenija ima vrlo smiješnu genetiku,

which means 60 percent of the people are genetically left-handed,

što znači da su 60 posto ljudi genetski ljevaci,

but only half of it showed. I don't have the time to say.

ali samo polovica od njih to i pokazuje. Nemam vremena objašnjavati.

Now, some people who think they're right-handed

Ali neki ljudi koji misle da su dešnjaci

are genetically left-handed. OK. I'm just saying that, if you think,

zapravo su genetski ljevaci. OK. Samo kažem da ako mislite,

oh, I don't carry a left-handed gene so therefore my, you know,

o, ne nosim gen za ljevorukost, i tako,znate,

children won't be at risk of schizophrenia. You might. OK?

moja djeca neće imati rizik za shizofreniju. Mogli biste. OK?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So it's, to me, an extraordinarily exciting time.

Tako da je to, za mene, iznimno uzbudljivo vrijeme.

We ought to be able to find the gene for bipolar;

Trebali bismo moći naći gene za bipolarnost;

there's a relationship.

postoji povezanost.

And if I had enough money, we'd find them all this year.

A kad bismo imali dovoljno novca, pronašli bismo ih sve ove godine.

I thank you.

Hvala vam.