A radical plan to end plastic waste | Andrew Forrest

Translator: Cristina Marey Castro Reviewer: Xosé María Moreno

(Aplausos)

Chris Anderson: levas anos obsesionado

Chris Anderson: So, you've been obsessed with this problem

for the last few years.

con esta cuestión.

What is the problem, in your own words?

Como explicaría-lo problema?

Andrew Forrest: Plastic.

Andrew Forrest: Plástico. Sinxelo.

Simple as that.

Non somos quen de reutilizar un ben tan dinámico,

Our inability to use it for the tremendous energetic commodity that it is,

desbotámolo e veña.

and just throw it away.

CA: Hai lixo por todas partes.

CA: And so we see waste everywhere.

At its extreme, it looks a bit like this.

Chegamos a cousas coma esta.

I mean, where was this picture taken?

Onde é?

AF: That's in the Philippines,

AF: En Filipinas, pero hai moitos ríos

and you know, there's a lot of rivers, ladies and gentlemen,

neste estado, señoras e señores.

which look exactly like that.

And that's the Philippines.

En todo o Sueste Asiático.

So it's all over Southeast Asia.

CA: So plastic is thrown into the rivers,

CA: Bótase o plástico nos ríos e vai parar ao océano.

and from there, of course, it ends up in the ocean.

I mean, we obviously see it on the beaches,

Vese nas praias, mais isto non é o que máis che preocupa,

but that's not even your main concern.

senón o que pasa nos océanos.

It's what's actually happening to it in the oceans. Talk about that.

Fálanos diso.

AF: OK, so look. Thank you, Chris.

AF: Vale. Grazas, Chris.

Hai catro anos,

About four years ago,

I thought I'd do something really barking crazy,

decidín facer unha toleada, un Doutorado en Ecoloxía Mariña.

and I committed to do a PhD in marine ecology.

O máis estarrecedor é que

And the scary part about that was,

aprendín moito da vida mariña, pero máis da morte mariña,

sure, I learned a lot about marine life,

but it taught me more about marine death

and the extreme mass ecological fatality of fish,

da fatalidade ecolóxica; peixes,

vida mariña, mamíferos mariños, moi próximos bioloxicamente a nós,

of marine life, marine mammals,

very close biology to us,

which are dying in the millions if not trillions that we can't count

millóns, billóns, de mortes causadas polo plástico.

at the hands of plastic.

CA: But people think of plastic as ugly but stable. Right?

CA: Mais a xente pensa que o plástico é feo pero seguro, non si?

You throw something in the ocean, "Hey, it'll just sit there forever.

Botas algo no océano, "Vai ficar aí sempre.

Non pode facer dano, ou?"

Can't do any damage, right?"

AF: See, Chris, it's an incredible substance designed for the economy.

AF: É unha substancia perfecta para a economía.

Pero é a peor substancia imaxinable para o medio ambiente.

It is the worst substance possible for the environment.

The worst thing about plastics, as soon as it hits the environment,

O peor dos plásticos é que, en canto tocan o medio ambiente,

is that it fragments.

fragméntanse.

It never stops being plastic.

Nunca deixa de ser plástico.

It breaks down smaller and smaller and smaller,

Vaise facendo máis pequeno, e máis, e máis,

and the breaking science on this, Chris,

e os últimos achados,

que coñecemos na ecoloxía mariña xa hai algúns anos,

which we've known in marine ecology for a few years now,

but it's going to hit humans.

mostran que vai afectar os humanos.

We are aware now that nanoplastic,

Sabemos que o nanoplástico,

as partículas moi, moi, pequenas que levan a carga negativa do plástico,

the very, very small particles of plastic, carrying their negative charge,

can go straight through the pores of your skin.

poden atravesar directamente os poros da pel.

That's not the bad news.

Iso non é o peor.

The bad news is that it goes straight through the blood-brain barrier,

O peor é que vai directamente a través da barreira hematoencefálica,

that protective coating which is there to protect your brain.

á capa protectora do cerebro.

Your brain's a little amorphous, wet mass full of little electrical charges.

O cerebro é un pouco amorfo, unha masa mollada chea de cargas eléctricas.

You put a negative particle into that,

Se lle metes unha partícula negativa,

particularly a negative particle which can carry pathogens --

ou peor, unha que poida levar axentes patóxenos,

so you have a negative charge, it attracts positive-charge elements,

terías unha carga negativa, que atrae elementos de carga positiva,

like pathogens, toxins,

coma patóxenos, toxinas,

mercury, lead.

mercurio, chumbo.

That's the breaking science we're going to see in the next 12 months.

Son os últimos avances que imos ver nos vindeiros 12 meses.

CA: So already I think you told me that there's like 600 plastic bags or so

CA: Penso que xa me contaches que hai arredor de 600 bolsas de plástico

for every fish that size in the ocean, something like that.

por cada peixe no océano, algo así.

E estanse a romper

And they're breaking down,

e vai haber máis

and there's going to be ever more of them,

e aínda non comezamos a ve-las consecuencias diso.

and we haven't even seen the start of the consequences of that.

AF: No, we really haven't.

AF: O certo é que non.

The Ellen MacArthur Foundation, they're a bunch of good scientists,

Na Fundación Ellen MacArthur, unha morea de bos científicos,

we've been working with them for a while.

levan xa tempo traballando niso. Corroborei ben o seu traballo.

I've completely verified their work.

They say there will be one ton of plastic, Chris,

Din que vai haber unha tonelada de plástico

for every three tons of fish by, not 2050 --

por cada tres toneladas de peixe e non en 2050,

and I really get impatient with people who talk about 2050 -- by 2025.

impaciéntome cando se fala de 2050, senón en 2025.

That's around the corner.

Á volta da esquina. Aquí e agora.

That's just the here and now.

You don't need one ton of plastic to completely wipe out marine life.

Non se precisa unha tonelada de plástico

Less than that is going to do a fine job at it.

para arrasar coa vida mariña. Abonda con menos.

So we have to end it straightaway. We've got no time.

Temos que paralo xa. Non temos máis tempo.

CA: OK, so you have an idea for ending it, and you're coming at this

CA: Tes unha idea para paralo, e non dende o típico punto de vista

not as a typical environmental campaigner, I would say,

dun activista medioambiental, digamos,

but as a businessman, as an entrepreneur, who has lived --

senón dun home de negocios, dun emprendedor,

you've spent your whole life thinking about global economic systems

que pasou a vida pensando sobre sistemas económicos globais

and how they work.

e como funcionan.

And if I understand it right,

Creo que a túa idea depende destes heroes.

your idea depends on heroes who look something like this.

What's her profession?

Cal é a súa profesión?

AF: She, Chris, is a ragpicker,

AF: É unha recicladora, Chris,

and there were 15, 20 million ragpickers like her,

e había 15, 20 millóns de recicladores coma ela

until China stopped taking everyone's waste.

ata que China parou de recoller os residuos de todo o mundo.

And the price of plastic, minuscule that it was, collapsed.

E o prezo do plástico, así de ínfimo como era, colapsou.

That led to people like her,

which, now -- she is a child who is a schoolchild.

Ela é unha nena, en idade escolar.

She should be at school.

Debería estar na escola.

That's probably very akin to slavery.

Unha situación moi similar á escravitude.

My daughter Grace and I have met hundreds of people like her.

A miña filla Grace e eu coñecemos centos de persoas coma ela.

CA: And there are many adults as well, literally millions around the world,

CA: E tamén hai moitos adultos, literalmente millóns por todo o mundo,

and in some industries,

e nalgunhas industrias, o seu traballo explica, por exemplo,

they actually account for the fact that, for example,

we don't see a lot of metal waste in the world.

que non se vexan moitos residuos metálicos.

AF: That's exactly right.

AF: Xusto. É unha heroína do medio ambiente.

That little girl is, in fact, the hero of the environment.

She's in competition with a great big petrochemical plant

Compite cunha gran planta petroquímica

which is just down the road,

de tres mil millóns de dólares, que está aí ao lado.

the three-and-a-half-billion-dollar petrochemical plant.

That's the problem.

Ese é o problema.

We've got more oil and gas in plastic and landfill

Hai máis petróleo e gas no plástico e nos vertedoiros

than we have in the entire oil and gas resources of the United States.

ca recursos de petróleo e gas ten Estados Unidos.

So she is the hero.

Ela é a heroína.

And that's what that landfill looks like, ladies and gentlemen,

Señoras e señores, vexan os vertedoiros,

and it's solid oil and gas.

todo isto é petróleo sólido e gas.

CA: So there's huge value potentially locked up in there

CA: Hai un valor inxente encerrado aí,

that the world's ragpickers would, if they could, make a living from.

co que os recicladores do mundo gañarían a vida.

But why can't they?

Por que non o poden facer?

AF: Because we have ingrained in us

AF: Porque temos arraigado

a price of plastic from fossil fuels,

o prezo do plástico dos combustibles fósiles

which sits just under what it takes

que se sitúa por debaixo do que custa

to economically and profitably recycle plastic from plastic.

reciclar plástico do mesmo plástico, en termos económicos e de rendibilidade.

See, all plastic is is building blocks from oil and gas.

O plástico componse de petróleo e gas.

Plastic's 100 percent polymer, which is 100 percent oil and gas.

É 100% polímero, é dicir, 100% petróleo e gas.

And you know we've got enough plastic in the world

Temos abondo plástico para cubrir tódalas necesidades.

for all our needs.

And when we recycle plastic,

Se reciclarmos plástico non é máis barato

if we can't recycle it cheaper than fossil fuel plastic,

ca o plástico dos combustibles fósiles

then, of course, the world just sticks to fossil fuel plastic.

entón a xente quédase co plástico dos combustibles fósiles.

CA: So that's the fundamental problem,

CA: Ese é o problema principal,

the price of recycled plastic is usually more

O plástico reciclado adoita custar máis

than the price of just buying it made fresh from more oil.

ca o que vén do petróleo. Non é?

That's the fundamental problem.

AF: Cambiémo-lo ángulo un chisco, Chris.

AF: A slight tweak of the rules here, Chris.

I'm a commodity person.

Eu son unha persoa de produtos.

I understand that we used to have scrap metal and rubbish iron

Sei que antes había chatarra e ferralla

and bits of copper lying all round the villages,

e refugallos de cobre tirados por calquera lado, sobre todo

particularly in the developing world.

nos países en vías de desenvolvemento.

And people worked out it's got a value.

A xente resolveu que iso ten un valor.

It's actually an article of value,

É un produto de valor, non un refugallo.

not of waste.

Now the villages and the cities and the streets are clean,

Agora as vilas e as cidades, as rúas están limpas,

you don't trip over scrap copper or scrap iron now,

xa non tropezas con refugallos de cobre ou de ferro,

because it's an article of value, it gets recycled.

porque é un produto de valor, recíclase.

CA: So what's your idea, then, to try to change that in plastics?

CA: Cal é a túa idea para que pase iso cos plásticos?

AF: OK, so Chris,

AF: Pois ben, Chris,

for most part of that PhD, I've been doing research.

pasei o doutorado investigando.

And the good thing about being a businessperson who's done OK at it

O mellor de ser un empresario ao que lle foi ben

is that people want to see you.

é que a xente te quere ver.

Other businesspeople,

Outros empresarios,

even if you're kind of a bit of a zoo animal species they'd like to check out,

aínda que lles gustaría revisar unha especie así coma ti, dirán:

they'll say, yeah, OK, we'll all meet Twiggy Forrest.

"Imos todos con Twiggy Forrest".

And so once you're in there,

Unha vez que estás aí,

you can interrogate them.

pódelos cuestionar.

And I've been to most of the oil and gas and fast-moving consumer good companies

Fun á maioría das empresas de petróleo, gas e produtos de consumo rápido

in the world,

e hai unha vontade real de mudar.

and there is a real will to change.

I mean, there's a couple of dinosaurs

A ver, hai un par de dinosauros

who are going to hope for the best and do nothing,

que van seguir coa esperanza pero non van facer nada,

but there's a real will to change.

porén, hai unha vontade real de cambio.

So what I've been discussing is,

O que tratei de dicir é que

the seven and a half billion people in the world

os sete mil millón de persoas no mundo

don't actually deserve to have their environment smashed by plastic,

non merecen que o plástico esmague o medio ambiente,

their oceans rendered depauperate or barren of sea life because of plastic.

nin que a vida mariña dos océanos desapareza polo plástico.

So you come down that chain,

Ao baixar na cadea,

and there's tens of thousands of brands which we all buy heaps of products from,

hai decenas de miles de marcas das que mercamos unha chea de produtos,

but then there's only a hundred major resin producers,

mais só hai un cento de produtores importantes de resina,

big petrochemical plants,

grandes plantas petroquímicas,

that spew out all the plastic which is single use.

que cospen todo o plástico dun só uso.

CA: So one hundred companies

CA: Un cento de empresas

are right at the base of this food chain, as it were.

está na base desta cadea, digamos.

AF: Yeah.

AF: Xusto.

CA: And so what do you need those one hundred companies to do?

CA: Que precisas que fagan ese cento de empresas?

AF: OK, so we need them to simply raise the value

AF: Só precisamos que suban

o valor dos compoñentes do plástico de petróleo e gas,

of the building blocks of plastic from oil and gas,

which I call "bad plastic,"

do "plástico malo",

raise the value of that,

para que cando chegue a nós, os clientes, a través das marcas,

so that when it spreads through the brands and onto us, the customers,

we won't barely even notice an increase in our coffee cup

apenas notemos a suba na cunca de café,

or Coke or Pepsi, or anything.

na Coca-Cola, na Pepsi, en nada.

CA: Like, what, like a cent extra?

CA: Canto, un céntimo?

AF: Less. Quarter of a cent, half a cent.

AF: Menos. Un cuarto ou medio céntimo.

It'll be absolutely minimal.

Algo ínfimo. Pero converte

But what it does,

it makes every bit of plastic all over the world an article of value.

cada anaco de plástico do mundo nun produto de valor.

Where you have the waste worst,

Onde peor é a situación dos residuos, no Sueste Asiático, na India,

say Southeast Asia, India,

that's where the wealth is most.

é onde habería máis riqueza.

CA: OK, so it feels like there's two parts to this.

CA: Semella que hai dúas partes nisto.

One is, if they will charge more money

A primeira é que, se cobran máis pero aproveitan iso

but carve out that excess

and pay it -- into what? -- a fund operated by someone

e o destinan, a que? A un fondo dirixido por alguén

to tackle this problem of -- what?

para que atalle este problema de...?

What would that money be used for, that they charge the extra for?

Para que se usarían os cartos adicionais que cobran?

AF: So when I speak to really big businesses,

AF: Cando falo con empresas moi grandes,

I say, "Look, I need you to change, and I need you to change really fast,"

dígolles: "Mira, preciso que cambies, e moi rápido".

their eyes are going to peel over in boredom,

Morren co aburrimento a menos que lles diga: "E hai negocio".

unless I say, "And it's good business."

"OK, now you've got my attention, Andrew."

"Agora si que te atendo, Andrew".

So I say, "Right, I need you to make a contribution

Entón digo: "Preciso da túa contribución

to an environmental and industry transition fund.

cun fondo para a transición medioambiental e industrial.

Over two or three years,

En dous ou tres anos, toda a industria global de plásticos

the entire global plastics industry

can transition from getting its building blocks from fossil fuel

pode pasar de saca-los compoñentes de combustibles fósiles

to getting its building blocks from plastic.

a sacalos do propio plástico.

The technology is out there.

Xa témo-la tecnoloxía. Está comprobado.

It's proven."

I've taken two multibillion-dollar operations from nothing,

Da nada, saquei adiante dúas operacións de miles de millóns de dólares,

recognizing that the technology can be scaled.

recoñecendo que a tecnoloxía pode mellorar.

I see at least a dozen technologies in plastic to handle all types of plastic.

Hai unha ducia de tecnoloxías para manexar o plástico, polo menos.

So once those technologies have an economic margin,

Unha vez que esas tecnoloxías teñan a marxe económica

which this gives them,

que lles dá este proxecto,

that's where the global public will get all their plastic from,

todo o mundo obterá o plástico do plástico que xa existe.

from existing plastic.

CA: So every sale of virgin plastic contributes money to a fund

CA: Con cada venda de plástico virxe, contribúese a un fondo

that is used to basically transition the industry

destinado á transición ecolóxica da industria

and start to pay for things like cleanup and other pieces.

co que se pagan, por exemplo, limpezas.

AF: Absolutely. Absolutely.

AF: Claro, claro.

CA: And it has the incredible side benefit,

CA: Ten un beneficio secundario incrible,

which is maybe even the main benefit,

se cadra mesmo o principal, xera un mercado.

of creating a market.

It suddenly makes recyclable plastic

De súpeto, o plástico reciclado

a giant business that can unlock millions of people around the world

é un negocio xigante, unha oportunidade para millóns de persoas

to find a new living collecting it.

que o poden recoller.

AF: Yeah, exactly.

AF: Exacto.

So all you do is, you've got fossil fuel plastics at this value

Os plásticos de combustibles fósiles valen tanto

and recycled plastic at this value.

e os plásticos reciclados valen tanto.

You change it.

Entón, cámbialo. Para que o reciclado sexa máis barato.

So recycled plastic is cheaper.

What I love about this most, Chris, is that, you know,

O mellor é que desbotamos 300, 350 millóns de toneladas,

we waste into the environment 300, 350 million tons of plastic.

On the oil and gas companies own accounts,

Segundo as propias empresas de petróleo e gas chegaremos a 500 millóns.

it's going to grow to 500 million tons.

É un problema crecente.

This is an accelerating problem.

But every ton of that is polymer.

Pero cada tonelada diso é polímero.

A tonelada custa de 1000 a 1500 dólares.

Polymer is 1,000 dollars, 1,500 dollars a ton.

That's half a trillion dollars which could go into business

Medio billón de dólares que podería ir ás empresas,

and could create jobs and opportunities and wealth right across the world,

crear traballo, oportunidades, e riqueza en todo o mundo,

particularly in the most impoverished.

sobre todo nos lugares máis empobrecidos. E aínda así, desbotámolo.

Yet we throw it away.

CA: So this would allow the big companies to invest in recycling plants

CA: Isto permitiría ás empresas investiren en plantas de reciclaxe

literally all over the world --

por todo o mundo. AF: Por todo o mundo.

AF: All over the world.

Because the technology is low-capital cost,

Dado que a tecnoloxía é de baixo custo, pódese poñer en calquera lugar,

you can put it in at rubbish dumps, at the bottom of big hotels,

en grandes hoteis,

garbage depots, everywhere,

depósitos de lixo en todas partes, e converter o lixo en resina.

turn that waste into resin.

CA: Now, you're a philanthropist,

CA: Ti es filántropo, e estás disposto a destinar fondos a isto.

and you're ready to commit some of your own wealth to this.

Cal é o rol da filantropía?

What is the role of philanthropy in this project?

AF: I think what we have to do is kick in the 40 to 50 million US dollars

AF: Creo que temos que aporta-los 40 ou 50 millóns de dólares para comezar.

to get it going,

and then we have to create absolute transparency

A transparencia ten que ser absoluta, para que todos poidan ver o que acontece.

so everyone can see exactly what's going on.

From the resin producers to the brands to the consumers,

Os produtores de resina,

os consumidores, todos han de saber quen participa,

everyone gets to see who is playing the game,

who is protecting the Earth, and who doesn't care.

quen protexe a Terra, e a quen non lle importa.

And that'll cost about a million dollars a week,

Vai custar arredor dun millón de dólares á semana

and we're going to underwrite that for five years.

e ímolo apoiar durante cinco anos.

Total contribution is circa 300 million US dollars.

A contribución total é de case 300 millóns de dólares.

CA: Wow.

Now --

CA: Vaia. Ben...

(Aplausos)

(Applause)

You've talked to other companies, like to the Coca-Colas of this world,

Falaches con empresas, coma Coca-cola,

dispostas a participar e a pagar máis,

who are willing to do this, they're willing to pay a higher price,

they would like to pay a higher price,

so long as it's fair.

sempre que sexa xusto.

AF: Yeah, it's fair.

AF: É xusto.

A Coca-Cola non lle gustaría que Pepsi

So, Coca-Cola wouldn't like Pepsi to play ball

unless the whole world knew that Pepsi wasn't playing ball.

participe, a menos que se saiba que non o fai.

Then they don't care.

Entón xa lles non importa.

So it's that transparency of the market

A transparencia fai que o mercado poida ver se se engana o sistema.

where, if people try and cheat the system,

the market can see it, the consumers can see it.

E os consumidores, que tamén queren o seu rol.

The consumers want a role to play in this.

Nós, sete mil millóns e medio.

Seven and a half billion of us.

We don't want our world smashed by a hundred companies.

Non querémo-lo planeta esmagado por cen empresas.

CA: Well, so tell us, you've said what the companies can do

CA: Sabemos que poden facer as empresas, e o que ti farías.

and what you're willing to do.

What can people listening do?

Que pode facer a xente?

AF: OK, so I would like all of us,

AF: Gustaríame que todos nós, en todo o mundo, entrásemos

all around the world,

to go a website called noplasticwaste.org.

en noplasticwaste.org para contactar cos cen produtores de resina

You contact your hundred resin producers

which are in your region.

en cada rexión haberá un, polo menos.

You will have at least one

within an email or Twitter or a telephone contact from you,

A través do correo, Twitter, do teléfono.

Dilles que queres que fagan unha contribución a un fondo manexado por

and let them know that you would like them to make a contribution to a fund

unha industria, ou polo Banco Mundial, que ao ano, aumenta dez mil millóns de dólares

which industry can manage or the World Bank can manage.

It raises tens of billions of dollars per year

para facer a transición e así consegui-lo plástico do propio plástico

so you can transition the industry to getting all its plastic from plastic,

e non dos combustibles fósiles.

not from fossil fuel.

Non precisamos iso. Iso é malo. Isto, bo.

We don't need that. That's bad. This is good.

And it can clean up the environment.

E pode limpa-lo medio ambiente.

We've got enough capital there,

Temos capital dabondo, decenas de millóns de dólares por ano,

we've got tens of billions of dollars, Chris, per annum

para limpa-lo medio ambiente.

to clean up the environment.

CA: You're in the recycling business.

CA: Estás no negocio da reciclaxe.

Isn't this a conflict of interest for you,

Isto non supón un conflito de intereses ou unha oportunidade de negocio?

or rather, a huge business opportunity for you?

AF: Yeah, look, I'm in the iron ore business,

AF: Mira, estou no negocio do ferro, e compito co da chatarra,

and I compete against the scrap metal business,

and that's why you don't have any scrap lying around to trip over,

e por iso non hai chatarra por aí, non tropezas nin te cortas,

and cut your toe on,

porque a recollen.

because it gets collected.

CA: Non é unha escusa para entrar no negocio da reciclaxe do plástico.

CA: This isn't your excuse to go into the plastic recycling business.

AF: No, I am going to cheer for this boom.

AF: Voume alegrar cando medre. Vai ser coma a Internet.

This will be the internet of plastic waste.

This will be a boom industry which will spread all over the world,

Unha industria en auxe que se espalle por todo o mundo,

and particularly where poverty is worst because that's where the rubbish is most,

sobre todo onde hai máis pobreza, onde hai máis lixo, que é o recurso.

and that's the resource.

So I'm going to cheer for it and stand back.

Voume alegrar e vou recuar.

CA: Twiggy, we're in an era

CA: Twiggy, estamos nunha era na que moita xente quere

where so many people around the world are craving a new, regenerative economy,

unha economía rexenerativa, que se transformen as grandes cadeas,

these big supply chains, these big industries,

to fundamentally transform.

as grandes industrias.

It strikes me as a giant idea,

Paréceme unha idea enorme, e vas precisar que moita xente te apoie

and you're going to need a lot of people cheering you on your way

para conseguilo. Grazas por compartilo.

to make it happen.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

AF: Grazas, Chris.

AF: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris.

(Aplausos)

(Applause)