What everyday citizens can do to claim power on the internet | Fadi Chehadé and Bryn Freedman

翻译人员: jacks peng 校对人员: Tianji (Homer) Li

Bryn Freedman: So you said that in the 20th century,

布林 · 弗里德曼（BF）： 你是说，在20世纪

global power was in the hands of government.

全球权力掌握在政府手中。

At the beginning of this digital century,

在这个数字世纪之初，

it really moved to corporations

它转移到了公司中，

and that in the future, it would move to individuals.

并且在未来，它会转移到个人手里。

And I've interviewed a lot of people,

我也采访了很多人，

and they say you're wrong,

他们说你错了，

and they are betting on the companies.

他们把赌注压在了公司上面。

So why are you right,

那么为什么你是对的，

and why are individuals going to win out?

为什么个人将会胜出？

Fadi Chehadé: Because companies cater to individuals,

法迪 · 切哈德（FC）： 因为公司是为个人服务的，

and we as the citizenry

我们作为公民

need to start understanding that we have a big role

需要开始认识到， 我们在塑造这个世界

in shaping how the world will be governed, moving forward.

如何被管理以及向前发展上， 发挥着重要作用。

Yes, indeed, the tug of war right now is between governments,

是的，确实，当前的 博弈存在于政府之间，

who lost much of their power to companies

这些政府被公司夺去了很多权力，

because the internet is not built around the nation-state system

因为互联网不是 围绕着政府掌握权力的

around which governments have power.

民族-国家系统建立的。

The internet is transnational.

互联网是跨国界的。

It's not international, and it's not national,

它不是国际性的，也不是全国性的，

and therefore the companies became very powerful.

这就让公司变得非常强大。

They shape our economy.

它们塑造了我们的经济。

They shape our society.

它们塑造了我们的社会。

Governments don't know what to do.

政府不知道如何应对这种局面。

Right now, they're reacting.

目前他们正在想办法应对。

And I fear that if we do not, as the citizenry --

我担心如果我们没有， 作为一个公民——

which are, in my opinion, the most important leg of that stool --

我认为公民是这个系统中 最重要的部分——

don't take our role,

不去扮演我们的角色的话，

then you are right.

那么你是对的。

The detractors, or the people telling you that businesses will prevail, are right.

那些诋毁者，或者那些告诉你 企业会占上风的人，是对的。

It will happen.

这的确会发生。

BF: So are you saying that individuals will force businesses

BF：所以你是说个人会迫使企业，

or business will be forced to be responsive,

或企业会被迫做出反应，

or is there a fear that they won't be?

还是担心它们不会？

FC: I think they will be.

FC：我认为它们会的。

Look at two weeks ago,

看看两周前，

a small company called Skip winning over Uber and Lyft and everyone

一家叫Skip的小公司打败了 优步和Lyft及其他所有公司，

to actually get the license for the San Francisco scooter business.

拿到了旧金山滑板车生意的牌照。

And if you read why did Skip win,

假如你读过为什么 Skip会赢的文章（就知道），

because Skip listened to the people of San Francisco,

因为Skip倾听旧金山居民的心声——

who were tired of scooters being thrown everywhere,

市民们厌倦了随处可见的滑板车——

and actually went to the city and said,

并跟市民们说，

"We will deploy the service,

“我们会部署这个服务，

but we will respond to the people's requirements

但我们会按人们的要求去做，

that we organize ourselves around a set of rules."

根据一套规则来组织运营。”

They self-governed their behavior, and they won the contract

他们对公司的行为进行自我管理， 从一些行业巨头手中

over some very powerful companies.

赢得了合同。

BF: So speaking of guidelines and self-governance,

BF：那么谈到指导和自我管理，

you've spent an entire lifetime creating guidelines and norms

你一生都致力于为互联网制定

for the internet.

指导方针和规范。

Do you think those days are over?

你认为这些日子结束了吗？

Who is going to guide, who is going to control,

谁来指导，谁来调控，

and who is going to create those norms?

谁来制定这些规范呢？

FC: The rules that govern the technology layers of the internet

FC：管理互联网技术层面的规则

are now well put in place,

现在已经到位，

and I was very busy for a few years setting those rules

我忙了好些年去制定

around the part of the internet that makes the internet one network.

让互联网成为一个网络的这部分规则。

The domain-name system, the IP numbers,

域名系统，IP地址，

all of that is in place.

所有这些都到位了。

However, as we get now into the upper layers of the internet,

然而，随着我们现在 进入互联网上层应用，

the issues that affect me and you every day --

那些每天影响你我的——

privacy, security, etc. --

隐私，安全，等等——

the system to create norms for those unfortunately is not in place.

不幸的是，为这一切制定 规范的体系并没到位。

So we do have an issue.

所以我们确实面临着一些问题。

We have a system of cooperation and governance

我们现在切实地需要建立

that really needs to be created right now

一个合作和治理的体系，

so that companies, governments and the citizenry can agree

这样一来，公司，政府和公民就能够

在这个新的数字世界 将如何发展上达成共识。

how this new digital world is going to advance.

BF: So what gives a digital company any incentive?

BF：那么是什么激励了数字公司呢？

Let's say -- Facebook comes to mind --

比如说——我想到了Facebook——

they would say they have their users' best interests at heart,

他们说会牢记用户的最佳利益，

but I think a lot of people would disagree with that.

但我觉得很多人并不认同这点。

FC: It's been very difficult to watch how tech companies have reacted

FC：科技公司如何回应公民 对它们的技术所做出的反应，

对这一过程的观察 一直以来都是个难题。

to the citizenry's response to their technologies.

And some of them, two or three years ago, basically dismissed it.

在两三年前，一些公司的 做法基本上就是无视它。

The word that I heard in many board rooms is, "We're just a technology platform.

我在很多会议室听到的词是： “我们只是个科技公司。

It's not my issue if my technology platform

如果我的科技平台导致

causes families to go kill their girls in Pakistan.

巴基斯坦的家人杀害他们的女儿， 这并不是我的问题。

It's not my issue. It's their problem.

这不是我的问题，是他们的问题。

I just have a technology platform."

我只是个科技平台。”

Now, I think we are now entering a stage

现在，我认为我们正进入这样一个阶段，

where companies are starting to realize this is no longer sustainable,

公司开始意识到 这种做法并不是长久之计，

and they're starting to see the pushback

他们开始看到来自大众，

that's coming from people, users, citizens,

用户，公民的阻力，

but also governments that are starting to say,

但也有政府开始表态，

"This cannot be."

“不能这样。”

So I think there is a maturity that is starting to set,

所以我认为开始去 制定规则的时机成熟了，

especially in that Silicon Valley area,

尤其在硅谷地区，

where people are beginning to say, "We have a role."

人们已经开始说，“我们有责任。”

So when I speak to these leaders, I say,

所以当我跟这些领导者们 交谈时，我会说，

"Look, you could be the CEO, a very successful CEO of a company,

“看，你可以成为CEO， 一个公司非常成功的CEO，

but you could also be a steward."

但你也可以成为一个管理者。”

And that's the key word.

这是个关键词。

"You could be a steward of the power you have

“你可以成为权力的管理者，

to shape the lives and the economies of billions of people.

可以去塑造数十亿人的 生活和经济面貌。

Which one do you want to be?"

你想成为哪一个？

And the answer is, it's not one or the other.

然而答案并不是非此即彼。

This is what we are missing right now.

这是我们现在所缺失的。

So when an adult like Brad Smith, the president of Microsoft,

所以当像布拉德 · 史密斯 那样的成年人，微软总裁，

said a few months ago,

几个月前说，

"We need a new set of Geneva Conventions

“我们需要一套新的日内瓦公约

to manage the security of the digital space,"

来管理数字空间的安全，”

many of the senior leaders in Silicon Valley

很多硅谷的高管

actually spoke against his words.

其实是持相反意见的。

"What do you mean, Geneva Convention?

“你什么意思，日内瓦公约？

我们不需要任何日内瓦公约， 我们可以很好地进行自我管理。”

We don't need any Geneva Conventions. We self-regulate."

But that mood is changing,

但那种情绪正在改变。

and I'm starting to see many leaders say,

我开始看到很多的领导者说，

"Help us out."

“帮助我们。”

But here lies the conundrum.

但难题恰恰就在这里。

Who is going to help those leaders do the right thing?

谁来帮助这些领导者做正确的事情？

BF: So who is going to help them?

BF：那么谁将去帮助他们呢？

Because I'd love to interview you for an hour,

我很希望能有一个小时的采访时间，

but give me your biggest fear and your best hope

不过长话短说吧——请告诉我， 你对如何解决这个问题的

for how this is going to work out.

最大的担忧和最大的希望是什么。

FC: My biggest hope is that we will become each stewards

FC：我最大的希望是， 我们都会成为这个新的

of this new digital world.

数字世界的管理员。

That's my biggest hope,

那是我最大的希望，

because I do think, often, we want to put the blame on others.

因为我确实认为， 我们往往习惯于指责别人。

"Oh, it's these CEOs. They're behaving this way."

“哦，就是因为这些 CEO们的这般作为。”

“这些政府做得还不够。”

"These governments are not doing enough."

But how about us?

但是我们自己呢？

How is each of us actually taking the responsibility to be a steward

我们每个人实际上又承担了多少管理

我们所生活的数字空间的责任呢？

of the digital space we live in?

And one of the things I've been pushing on university presidents

我一直在敦促大学校长们

is we need every engineering and science and computer science student

做的一件事是，我们需要 让每一个将要写下一行代码，

who is about to write the next line of code

或者设计下一个物联网 设备的工程科学

or design the next IoT device

和计算机科学领域的学生

to actually have in them a sense of responsibility and stewardship

切实地拥有责任感，并有意识地管理

towards what they're building.

他们所构建东西。

So I suggested we create a new oath,

所以我建议，我们应该 立下一个新的誓言，

like the Hippocratic Oath,

就像希波克拉底誓言一样，

so that every student entering an engineering program

这样每个进入工程专业的学生

takes a technocratic oath or a wisdom oath

需要承诺一个技术官僚的誓言， 或者一个智慧的誓言，

or some oath of commitment to the rest of us.

或者对我们其他人做出承诺的誓言。

That's my best hope, that we all rise.

这就是我最大的希望—— 我们都能站出来。

Because governments and businesses will fight over this power game,

因为政府和企业会为 这场权力游戏而战，

but where are we?

但我们在哪儿呢？

And unless we play into that power table,

除非我们参与其中，

I think we'll end up in a bad place.

否则我认为我们会陷入困境。

My biggest fear?

说到我最大的担忧，

My biggest fear, to be very tactical today,

我最大的担忧，今天用 非常战术性的话来说，

what is keeping me up at night

让我夜不能寐的是

is the current war between the West, the liberal world,

当前在人工智能领域，发生在西方，

and China,

自由世界和中国

in the area of artificial intelligence.

之间的战争。

There is a real war going on,

一场真正的战争在进行，

and for those of us who have lived through the nuclear nonproliferation age

对于我们这些经历过核不扩散时代

and saw how people agreed

和看到人们如何同意避免

to take some very dangerous things off the table,

一些非常危险的东西的人来说，

well, the Carnegie Endowment just finished a study.

卡内基基金会刚刚完成了一项研究。

They talked to every country that made nuclear weapons

他们跟每个制造核武器的国家交谈，

and asked them,

询问他们，

"Which digital 'weapon' would you take off the table

“在对付别人的学校和医院时，

against somebody else's schools or hospitals?"

你会避免使用哪个数字‘武器’？”

And the answer --

而答案——

from every nuclear power -- to this question was,

来自每个核国家的答案是——

nothing.

没有。（即什么都可以用）

That's what I'm worried about ...

这就是我所担心的…

The weaponization of the digital space,

数字空间的武器化，

and the race to get there.

和以此为目标的军备竞赛。

BF: Well, it sounds like you've got a lot of work to do,

BF：听起来你有很多工作要做，

and so do the rest of us.

我们其他所有人也是。

Fadi, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

法迪，非常感谢， 感谢你的精彩回答。

FC: Thank you.

FC：谢谢。

（鼓掌）

(Applause)