The moral dangers of non-lethal weapons | Stephen Coleman

翻译人员: Guo Tang 校对人员: Zhangyi Liu

What I want to talk to you about today

今天我想要想大家谈论的

is some of the problems that the military of the Western world --

是关于西方国家军队--

澳大利亚，美国，英国等等--

Australia, United States, the UK and so on --

面临着一些

face in some of the deployments that they're dealing with

对付现代世界的部署的问题

in the modern world at this time.

如果你想到的是那些

If you think about the sorts of things

we've sent Australian military personnel to in recent years,

近几年我们将澳大利亚军队派遣到

明显的是如伊拉克和阿富汗，

we've got obvious things like Iraq and Afghanistan,

but you've also got things like East Timor and the Solomon Islands,

但是你也能想到东帝坟

和所罗门群岛

and so on.

And a lot of these deployments

这些部署

that we're sending military personnel to these days

如今我们实际上派遣军队去的

aren't traditional wars.

并非是传统的战争

In fact, a lot of the jobs we're asking military personnel to do

事实上，很多工作

在这些情况下我们要求军队去做的

in those situations

are ones that, in their own countries -- Australia, the US and so on --

是那些在他们自己的国家，在澳大利亚，在美国等等，

可以被警察完成的（任务）

would actually be done by police officers.

So there's a bunch of problems that come up

因此让军队处在这中情况下

for military personnel in these situations,

出现了很多的问题

because they're doing things they haven't really been trained for.

因为他们在做一些从未被训练过的（任务）

他们做一些

And they're doing things that those who do them in their own countries

其他人在他们自己国家

被训练的十分的不同

are trained very differently for and equipped very differently for.

并且整装也十分的不相同（的任务）

Now, there's a bunch of reasons why we send military personnel,

现在这里有很多的原因为什么

我们实际上将军队派遣去

rather than police, to do these jobs.

而非警察去做这些工作

If Australia had to send 1,000 people tomorrow

打个比方，如果澳大利亚明天需要派遣一千人

to West Papua, for example,

去新几内亚

我们没有一千名闲置的警察可以

we don't have 1,000 police officers hanging around that could go tomorrow,

明天出发

and we do have 1,000 soldiers that could go.

我们却有一千名士兵可以去

所以当我们需要派遣什么人的时候，我们派遣军队--

So when we have to send someone, we send the military --

因为他们就在那里，他们是闲置的

they're there, they're available,

and heck, they're used to going off and doing these things

并且，他们习惯于紧急行动

和自我生存

and living by themselves

and not having all this extra support.

并且是在完全没有外部支持（的条件下）

So they are able to do it in that sense.

因此他们理所应当可以做那些（派遣任务）

但是他们没有被警察一样培训

But they aren't trained the same way police officers are,

他们当然也不能像警察一样的武装装备

and they're certainly not equipped the way police officers are,

因此当处理类似于这类问题的时候

so this has raised a bunch of problems for them

对他们就产生了种种问题

when dealing with these issues.

One particular thing that's come up that I am especially interested in,

一件很特别的事情

正是我十分感兴趣的

is the question of whether,

就是，

when we're sending military personnel to do these sorts of jobs,

当我们把军队派遣去做这些工作时，

我们应该不同地武装他们，

we ought to be equipping them differently;

然后特别是，我们是否应该给与他们

and in particular, whether we ought to be giving them access

警察拥有的（使用）非致命武器的接近（权力）

to some of the nonlethal weapons that police have.

由于他们做的是类同的工作，

Since they're doing some of the same jobs,

他们也许应该拥有这些东西

maybe they should have some of those things.

当然，这里有一系列的地方

And there's a range of places you'd think those things would be really useful.

你认为那些东西应该是很有用的

例如，当在军队的检查站

For example, when you've got military checkpoints.

If people are approaching these checkpoints

如果人们接近这些检查站

并且军人们不能确定

and the military personnel are unsure if this person's hostile or not,

这些人是否怀有敌意

say this person approaching here, and they say,

比如说这个人接近这里，

他们说，‘这是不是个人体炸弹？

"Is this a suicide bomber or not?

Is something hidden under their clothes?

他们是不是在衣服底下藏了什么东西？将会发生什么事情？’

What's going to happen?"

他们不知道这个人是否有敌意

They don't know if the person is hostile or not.

如果这个人不按照指示行动

If the person doesn't follow directions, they may end up shooting them,

他们就会最终射击他们

最后才发现

and then find out afterwards either, yes, we shot the right person,

或者，是的，我们射对了，

or, no, this was just an innocent person

又或者是，不，这仅仅是个无辜的

who didn't understand what was going on.

不知道发生什么事情的人

So if they had nonlethal weapons, then they would say,

所以如果他们拥有非致命武器

他们就可以说，‘我们在那种环境下可以用它们

"We can use them in that sort of situation.

如果我们射击了一些没有敌意的人，

If we shoot someone who wasn't hostile,

至少我们并没有杀死他们’

at least we haven't killed them."

另一种情况

Another situation: this photo is from one of the missions

这张照片实际上是

in the Balkans in the late 1990s.

一九九零年代末巴尔干半岛的一次任务

情况是有点不同

This situation is a little bit different,

在于他们大概知道谁是带有敌意

where maybe they know someone is hostile;

在于他们被射击

they've got someone shooting at them

or doing something else that's clearly hostile,

或者其他的一些明显带有敌意的行动，扔石头，任何东西

throwing rocks, whatever.

但是如果他们回击，这里有一群其他的人在身边，

But if they respond,

there's a range of other people around who are innocent people,

无辜的人们也会受到伤害--

who might also get hurt.

It'd be collateral damage

会被牵连地受到伤害这也正是军队不愿意谈的

that the military often doesn't want to talk about.

So again, they'd say, "With access to nonlethal weapons,

再次，他们会说，‘如果我们有使用非致命武器的权力，

如果我们知道哪些人是怀有敌意的，

if we've got someone we know is hostile,

我们可以处理他们

we can do something to deal with them,

并且知道我们是否袭击了那个地方其他的人，

and know that if we hit anyone else,

at least we're not going to kill them."

至少，再次，我们不会杀了他们’

另外一个建议

Another suggestion has been,

since we're putting so many robots in the field,

因为我们在战地伤安置了很多机器人，

我们可以看见

we can see the time coming

where they're actually going to send robots out in the field

（那些机器人）被送到战地里是自动的

that are autonomous.

他们自己决定射击谁不射击谁

They'll make their own decisions about who to shoot and who not to shoot,

在完全没有人类智慧参与的情况下

without a human in the loop.

因此建议是这样的，

So the suggestion is,

if we're going to send robots out and allow them to do this,

如果我们将机器人送出去并且允许他们做这些事情，

这大概将是一个好主意，拥有这些东西

maybe it would be a good idea if they were armed with nonlethal weapons,

如果他们以非致命武器武装起来

就算机器人做了个错误的决定射击了错误的对象

so if the robot makes a bad decision and shoots the wrong person,

他们其实并没有杀死他们

again, they haven't actually killed them.

现在这里有一系列的非致命武器，

Now, there's a whole range of different sorts of nonlethal weapons,

有些现在明显地可用，

some of which are available now,

有些正在被开发

some of which they're developing.

你已经有了传统的（非致命武器）如胡椒雾剂，

You've got traditional things like pepper spray,

(神经麻痹剂的)防暴喷剂在上面

OC spray up at the top there,

又或者是高压眩晕枪

or Tasers over here.

在右上边的这个实际上是一个耀眼激光

The one on the top right here is actually a dazzling laser,

用来使人瞬间变盲

intended to just blind the person momentarily

并失去方向感

and disorient them.

你有非致命短枪射出

You've got nonlethal shotgun rounds

橡皮子弹

that contain rubber pellets instead of the traditional metal ones.

替代传统的金属子弹

And this one in the middle here, the large truck,

这个在中间的，大卡车

is called the Active Denial System,

实际上被叫做主动拒止系统--

something the US military is working on at the moment.

是个美军此时正在使用的（非致命武器）

It's essentially a big microwave transmitter.

它实际上是一个巨型的微波发射机，

它就是你们传统想象中的热射线

It's sort of your classic idea of a heat ray.

它可以射出非常长的距离

It goes out to a really long distance,

compared to any of these other sorts of things.

与其它类似的相比

任何被它击中的人

Anybody who is hit with this feels a sudden burst of heat,

感受到这种突然爆发的热

and just wants to get out of the way.

就想从中挣脱出来

它比微波炉更复杂，

It is a lot more sophisticated than a microwave oven,

but it basically is boiling the water molecules

但是它实际上煮沸

你最上层皮肤上的水原子

in the very surface level of your skin.

所以你感觉到大范围的热，

So you feel this massive heat,

然后你就（叫喊），‘我想要脱离出来’

and you go, "I want to get out of the way."

于是他们想，这将会很有用处

And they think this will be really useful

in places where we need to clear a crowd out of a particular area,

在那些我们想要在一个特定的地区清除一个人群

如果这个人群是有敌意的

if the crowd is being hostile.

如果我们需要让人们远离一个特定的地方，

If we need to keep people away from a particular place,

我们可以用这些东西来做这样的事情

we can do that with these sorts of things.

So there's a whole range of different nonlethal weapons

因此很明显地这里有整个系列不同地

非致命武器我们给于军队士兵们

we could give military personnel,

and there's a whole range of situations

而且这里有一整个系列的情况

where they're looking at them and saying,

他们正在寻找并且说，‘嗨，这些东西真的很有用’

"These things would be really useful."

但是我却说，

But as I said,

the military and the police are very different.

军队和警察

是很不同的

(Laughter)

Yes, you don't have to look very hard at this to recognize

是的，你不用非常仔细地去看

才认识到他们是非常不同这一事实

that they might be very different.

特别地，

In particular,

the attitude to the use of force

使用武力的态度

and the way they're trained to use force

和他们被训练的使用武力的方式

is especially different.

是特别得不同的

警察--

The police --

and knowing because I've actually helped to train police --

我了解他们因为我曾经帮助训练过警察--

police, particularly in Western jurisdictions at least,

警察，特别是在西方司法至少，

are trained to De-escalate force,

被训练的减弱对抗力，

试图并且避免使用军力

to try and avoid using force wherever possible,

在任何情况下，

and to use lethal force only as an absolute last resort.

致命武器

仅仅做为最后手段来使用

Military personnel are being trained for war.

军队是为了战争而训练

So they're trained that, as soon as things go bad,

因此他们被训练的，只要事情变糟糕

their first response is lethal force.

他们最首要的对应就是致命武器

The moment the fecal matter hits the rotating turbine --

当粪便袭击旋转涡轮，

(Laughter)

you can start shooting at people.

你就可以射击人群

所以他们

So their attitudes

to the use of lethal force are very different,

使用致命武器的态度十分的不同，

我认为很明显的

and I think it's fairly obvious

that their attitude to the use of nonlethal weapons

他们对使用非致命武器的态度

would also be very different from what it is with the police.

也可以与对待警察的态度十分不同

因为我们已经有很多

And since we've already had so many problems

关于警察以多种方式使用非致命武器的问题

with police use of nonlethal weapons in various ways,

我觉得看待这些事情

I thought it would be a good idea to look at some of those things

并且试图从以军队作为联系是一个好主意

and relate it to the military context.

我十分惊讶当我开始做这些事情的时候

I was very surprised when I started to do this to see that, in fact,

看这些，实际上，

even the people who advocated the use of nonlethal weapons by the military

甚至于这些军队里避免使用的非致命武器的

也实际上还没有做到那些

hadn't actually done that.

They generally seemed to think,

他们大部分看起来是在想，

"Why would we care what's happened with the police?

“那么，为什么我们要关心发生在警察

We're looking at something different,"

我们在关注一些不同的东西，”

and didn't seem to recognize

似乎还没有认识到，实际上，

they were looking at pretty much the same stuff.

他们在看待差不多一样的事情

So I started to investigate some of those issues,

所以我实际上开始对这些问题进行调查

并且观察

and have a look at the way police use nonlethal weapons

当警察被介绍使用非致命武器

when they're introduced,

和一些在这些事情之外

and some of the problems that might arise out of those sorts of things

可能发生的问题

when they actually do introduce them.

当它们（非致命武器）实际上被介绍给他们

And of course, being Australian,

当然，作为一名澳大利亚人，

我从看澳大利亚的东西开始，

I started looking at stuff in Australia, knowing from my own experience

知道，再次，从我自己的经验知道

of various times when nonlethal weapons have been introduced in Australia.

当非致命武器被引入澳大利亚的种种情况下

有一件我特别注意的事情就是

One of the things I particularly looked at was the use of OC spray --

带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray),

oleoresin capsicum spray, pepper spray --

辣椒油树脂喷雾，胡椒雾剂，

被澳大利亚的警察使用

by Australian police,

看到它们被引进来，看到

and seeing what had happened when that had been introduced,

有关于这些东西的问题

and those sorts of issues.

我发现了一项研究

And one study that I found, a particularly interesting one,

一个特别有意思的研究，

was in Queensland,

实际上是（发生在）昆士兰州，

because they had a trial period for the use of pepper spray

因为在它们实际被广泛的引进之前

before they actually introduced it more broadly.

有一个使用胡椒雾剂的试用时间

And I went and had a look at some of the figures here.

我找到并且观察这些数据

Now, when they introduced OC spray in Queensland,

他们将带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)引进到昆士兰州，

是十分明确的

they were really explicit.

The police minister's and a heap of public statements were made about it.

警察官有一堆关于这个的公文

公文上是，“这是明确地

They were saying, "This is explicitly intended to give police an option

给警察一个

between shouting and shooting.

叫喊和射击的选择

这是可以替代武器而使用的

This is something they can use instead of a firearm

in situations where they would have previously had to shoot someone."

在那些之前他们可以射击人们的情况下”

所以我搜集了所有那些警察射击的数据

So I looked at all of the police shooting figures.

And you can't actually find them very easily

实际上不能轻易地找到

for individual Australian states;

个别州的（数据）

I could only find these.

我只能找到这些

This is from an Australian Institute of Criminology report.

这是从澳大利亚犯罪学报告中（找到的）

从这些极小的字体你可以看到，如果你能够从上面读：

You can see, in the fine print at the top:

“警察射击死亡”不是仅仅指那些被警察射击的人，

"Police shooting deaths" means not just people shot by police,

还指那些在警察在场时射击自己的人

but people who have shot themselves in the presence of police.

But these are the figures across the entire country,

但是这是整个国家的数据

红色的箭头的地方代表

and the red arrow represents the point where Queensland said,

昆士兰州

"Yes, this is where we're going to give

“是的，这是我们在整个国家里

all police officers across the entire state

允许警察使用神经麻痹剂防暴喷剂(O.C. SPRAY)的地方”

access to OC spray."

So you can see there were six deaths sort of leading up to it,

所以你可以看到这之前每一年有

every year for a number of years.

六历死亡（案例）

There was a spike a few years before,

这是一个高峰，几年之前，

but that wasn't actually Queensland.

但是这却不是在昆士兰州

Anyone know where that was?

谁知道那是哪里？不，也不是旅顺港

Wasn't Port Arthur, no.

维多利亚？ 是的，没错

Victoria? Yes, correct.

这个高峰是维多利亚

That spike was all Victoria.

(Laughter)

就是说昆士兰州有一个特殊的问题

So it wasn't that Queensland had a particular problem

伴随着警察的射击等等

with deaths from police shootings and so on.

So, six shootings across the whole country,

所以六历死亡在整个国家

持续了在这之前的年头

fairly consistently over the years before.

所以他们研究了接下来的两年--2001年，2002年

The next two years were the years they studied -- 2001, 2002.

任何人想要尝试一下次数，

Anyone want to take a stab at the number of times,

在知道他们是如何被引进的情况下，

given how they've introduced this,

the number of times police in Queensland used OC spray in that period?

昆士兰州的警察在那段时间里使用了带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)多少次？

一百次？三百次？

Hundreds? One? Three?

或者更应该是一千次

A thousand is getting better.

Explicitly introduced as an alternative to the use of lethal force --

明确地

将它们作为致命武器的替代品而引进－－

an alternative between shouting and shooting.

一个在呼喊和射击的之间的替换品

I'm going to go out on a limb here

我现在处在一个非常不利的状态

and say that if Queensland police didn't have OC spray,

并且说如果昆士兰州的警察没有带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)，

they wouldn't have shot 2,226 people

他们不会已经在这两年中

in those two years.

射击了2，226人

(Laughter)

实际上，如果你看一下

In fact, if you have a look at the studies they were looking at,

他们做的这个研究，

the material they were collecting and examining,

他们搜集和检验的这些材料，

你可以看到这个猜想仅仅

you can see the suspects were only armed in about 15 percent of cases

有15%被武装

where OC spray was used.

所有带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)被使用的情况下

它们在这个阶段被例行公事地利用，

It was routinely being used in this period,

and, of course, still is routinely used --

并且，当然，仍旧是例行公事地利用--

because there were no complaints about it,

因为没有抱怨，

在这个研究内容里没有--

not within the context of this study, anyway --

它被例行公事地使用

it was routinely being used to deal with people who were violent,

来对付凶暴的人们，

潜在暴力的人们，

who were potentially violent,

and also quite frequently used

并且更加经常地用来去

对付那些单纯

to deal with people who were simply passively noncompliant.

消极地无抱怨的人们

This person is not doing anything violent,

这个人并不会去施任何暴力,

but they just won't do what we want them to.

但是他们只是不去做他们（警察）想要他们去做的

They're not obeying the directions we're giving them,

他们不遵守我们给的指导方向，

所以我们向他们射击带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)

so we'll give them a shot of the OC spray -- that'll speed them up.

那将将此加速。任何事情在此情况下变得好转

Everything will work out better that way.

This was something explicitly introduced

这就是被作为武器的替换物

而引进来的，

to be an alternative to firearms,

但是它被例行公事地用作

but it's being routinely used

其他大范围的

to deal with a whole range of other sorts of problems.

问题

Now one of the particular issues that comes up

现在一个特别突出的问题就是

伴随着军队使用非致命武器--

with military use of nonlethal weapons --

and people actually say, "There might be some problems" --

人们实际上在说，“嘿，那里似乎有些问题”--

there's a couple of particular problems that get focused on.

那里有一些特别的问题被关注

这其中的一个问题

One of those problems is: nonlethal weapons may be used indiscriminately.

就是非致命武器可能会被滥用

军队使用武器的一个基本原则

One of the fundamental principles of military use of force

就是必须要有辨别力

is that you have to be discriminate;

你要非常地小心在射击的是什么

you have to be careful about who you're shooting at.

一个伴随着非致命武器的问题

So one of the problems suggested with nonlethal weapons

is that they might be used indiscriminately --

就是他们可能被毫无区别地使用--

你用它们来对付大规模的人们

that you would use them against a whole range of people,

因为你不用再担心了

because you don't have to worry so much anymore.

实际上，一个特别的例子

And in fact, one particular instance where I think that actually happens

我认为实际上发生在你看到的

was the Dubrovka Theater siege in Moscow in 2002,

2002年莫斯科的杜布拉芙卡剧场围攻，

which probably a lot of you, unlike most of my students at ADFA,

可能不像在ADFA的我的学生

在你们的年纪大概都能记得

are old enough to remember.

车臣进去并且控制了那个剧场

So, Chechens had come in and taken control of the theater.

他们掌握了大概700名人质

They were holding something like 700 people hostage.

他们已经释放了很多人，

They'd released a bunch of people,

但是他们仍旧掌握着700名人质

but they still had about 700 people hostage.

And the Russian military police special forces, "Spetsnaz,"

俄罗斯特殊军事警察，

特种部队，阿尔法小组，

came in and stormed the theater.

进攻并且实际上猛击了那个剧场

The way they did it was to pump the whole thing full of anesthetic gas.

他们所用的是将整个地方灌输麻醉气体

结果是

And it turned out that lots of the hostages died

很多人质

as a result of inhaling the gas.

因为吸入这些气体而死亡

It was used indiscriminately.

它被任意地使用了

They pumped the whole theater full of the gas.

他们将整个剧场灌输气体

And it's no surprise that people died,

所以也不奇怪人们会死

因为你不知道每个人

because you don't know how much gas each person is going to inhale,

会吸入多少气体，

what position they'll fall in when they become unconscious, and so on.

他们将以怎样的姿势昏倒

当他们变得无意识等等

There were, in fact, only a couple of people who got shot

实际上，仅有一小部分人被射击

in this episode.

在这种情节下

So when they had a look at it afterward,

所以当他们之后再去观察，

there were only a couple of people who'd apparently been shot,

仅仅有一小部分人们

被人质挟持者射击

by the hostage takers or by the police forces

或者被警察射击

trying to deal with the situation.

在解决当时的情况下

Virtually everybody that got killed

实际上每个被杀死的人

got killed from inhaling the gas.

都是被吸进那些气体而杀死的

最终的人质死亡人数

The final toll of hostages is a little unclear,

是有些不明确，

but it's certainly a few more than that,

但是明确地是比那个（数据）更多，

because other people died over the next few days.

因为一些人死于之后的几天

所以他们谈论的一个重要问题，

So this was one problem they talked about,

就是（非致命武器）可能会被无区别地使用

that it might be used indiscriminately.

A second problem people sometimes talk about

第二个问题就是人们一些时候谈论

军队使用非致命武器，

with military use of nonlethal weapons --

这也实际上是为什么化学武器公约

and it's actually why, in the chemical weapons convention,

上明确地（规定）不能用催泪性毒气

it's very clear that you can't use riot-control agents

作为冲突武器，

as weapons of warfare --

它所伴随的问题就是一些时候

is that it's seen that sometimes nonlethal weapons might be used

非致命武器可能被并非作为一个致命武器

not as an alternative to lethal force,

而是一个致命武器的扩充物--

but as a lethal force multiplier:

that you use nonlethal weapons first,

你可以先用非致命

so your lethal weapons will actually be more effective.

以便你的致命武器将会更加有效

那些你要射击的人

The people you'll be shooting at won't be able to get out of the way.

不会从那里逃脱

They won't be aware of what's happening, and you can kill them better.

他们不会意识到发生了什么而你也能更好地杀死他们

实际上，这正是现在所发生的

And that's exactly what happened here.

The hostage takers who had been rendered unconscious by the gas

那些由于气体失去意识而被降伏的人质挟持者

并没有被羁押，

were not taken into custody;

they were simply shot in the head.

他们仅仅是被击中了头部

So this nonlethal weapon was being used in this case

所以这些非致命武器

被使用，实际上，在这些情况下

as a lethal force multiplier,

作为一个致命武器的增强武器

to make killing more effective in this particular situation.

另射杀更加有效

在这种特殊的情况下

Another problem I want to quickly mention

我还想很快地提及另外一个问题

这儿有一堆的问题

is that there's a whole heap of problems

人们实际上被教会

with the way people are actually taught to use nonlethal weapons,

使用非致命武器

and get trained about them and then tested and so on.

被训练并且试验等等

因为他们在一个安全的环境下被测试

Because they're tested in nice, safe environments,

人们也就在一个安全的环境下被教会

and are taught to use them in nice, safe environments --

like this, where you can see exactly what's going on.

正如这样，你可以看见是如何发生的

这些喷射带有神经麻痹剂的防暴喷剂(O.C. spray)的人带着橡胶手套

The person spraying the OC spray is wearing a rubber glove

以防止被污染或者别的

to make sure they don't get contaminated, and so on.

但是他们从未如此使用过

But they're never used like that.

他们适应真实世界之外（的环境）

They're used out in the real world,

像在得克萨斯州，像这样

like in Texas, like this:

["Police Taser Great-Grandmother During Traffic Stop"]

我承认，这个特殊的例子

I confess, this particular case was one that piqued my interest in this.

实际上激发了我的兴趣

It happened while I was working as a research fellow

者发生在我在(美国)海军军官学校作为一名研究者工作的时候

at the US Naval Academy.

报纸开始报道

News reports started coming up about this situation,

一名妇女和警察发生争论的这件事情

where this woman was arguing with a police officer.

She wasn't violent.

她并没有暴力行为

In fact, he was probably six inches taller than me,

实际上，他大概比我高6英尺左右，

她也就是这么高

and she was about this tall.

And eventually she said to him,

最后她对他说

"Well, I'm going to get back in my car."

“我要回我的车里去了”

And he says, "If you get back in your car, I'm going to tase you."

他说，“如果你要回你的车，那么我就要tase(用高压眩晕枪射击）你”

她说，“来吧，射击我吧”于是他就做了

And she says, "Oh, go ahead. Tase me." And so he does.

这些都被摄像机扑捉下来了

And it's all captured by the video camera

就在警车前面

running in the front of the police car.

她72岁，

So, she's 72.

这看起来是对待她最不合适的一种方式

And it's seen that this is the most appropriate way of dealing with her.

And there are other examples of the same sorts of things,

另外一个与此类似的情况是

你认为对于其他的人

where you think,

“使用非致命武器真的是一个合适的手段吗？”

"Is this really an appropriate way to use nonlethal weapons?"

“警察官们用高压眩晕枪射击一个14岁女孩儿的头”

"Police Chief Fires Taser into 14 year old Girl's Head."

“她跑了，我还能做什么什么呢？”

"She was running away. What else was I suppose to do?"

（笑声）

(Laughter)

Or Florida:

又或者在弗罗里达州：

"Police Taser 6-year-old Boy at Elementary School."

“警察在一个小学用高压眩晕枪射击了一个6岁的男孩儿”

And they clearly learned a lot from it, because in the same district:

他们的确从中学到了些什么

因为在同一个区，

"Police Review Policy After Children Shocked:

“在孩子们被射击后警察重新审视了他们的政策

第二个孩子在几周后被高压眩晕枪射击“

2nd Child Shocked by Taser Stun Gun Within Weeks."

Same police district.

在同一个警察区

Another child within weeks of Tasering the six-year-old boy.

之前那个六岁被射击的孩子发生之后的几周内另一个孩子（被射击）

万一你认为

Just in case you think it's only going to happen in the United States,

这仅仅发生在美国，

it happened in Canada as well:

也发生在加拿大，

["Mounties Zap 11-year-old Boy"]

我的一个同事

And a colleague sent me this one from London:

从伦敦给我寄来了这个

["Arrested Man, 82, Shot with Taser"]

但是我个人最喜欢的，我得坦白，

But my personal favorite, I have to confess, does come from the US:

是从美国来的：

"Officers Taser 86-year-old Disabled Woman in her Bed."

”警官们用高压眩晕枪射击了一名残疾的86岁的老太太，在她的床上“

(Laughter)

我检查了这个报告

I checked the reports on this one.

我看着它，我十分的吃惊

I looked at it. I was really surprised.

Apparently, she took up a more threatening position in her bed.

明显地她在床上的姿势更具有威胁力

(掌声）

(Laughter)

我没有跟你们开玩笑，报告上是这样说的

I kid you not, that's exactly what it said:

”她在床上做了更加具有威胁力的姿势“

"She took up a more threatening position in her bed."

好的

OK.

But I'd remind you --

但是我提醒你我在说什么，

I'm talking about military uses of nonlethal weapons,

我再说关于军队使用非致命武器

so why is this relevant?

所以为什么这些有关联？

Because police are actually more restrained in the use of force

因为警察们比军人们对使用

武器有更多的限制

than the military are.

They're trained to be more restrained in the use of force

他们被训练的比军队使用武器有更多的限制

than the military are.

他们被训练地思考更多，试图并且减压

They're trained to think more, to try and De-escalate.

所以如果你对警察使用非致命武器有疑问，

So if you have these problems with police officers

with nonlethal weapons,

究竟什么能使你觉得

what on earth would make you think

军人使用会更好呢？

it's going to be better with military personnel?

The last thing that I would like to say:

我要说的最后一件事情，

当我和警察说

When I'm talking to the police

about what a perfect nonlethal weapon would look like,

关于一个完美的非致命武器的时候

他们几乎毫无例外地说同一件事

they almost inevitably say the same thing.

他们说，”这将是肮脏的事情

They say, "It's got to be something that's nasty enough

that people don't want to be hit with this weapon.

人们不想被这种武器击中

如果你用它去恐吓，

So if you threaten to use it,

people are going to comply with it.

人们遵守

But it's also going to be something

但是这将

that doesn't leave any lasting effects."

不会有持久的效果”

也就是说，你的完美的非致命武器

In other words,

your perfect nonlethal weapon is something that's perfect for abuse.

是完美的用来虐待

这些人可以做什么

What would these guys have done if they'd had access to Tasers,

如果他们有使用高压眩晕枪的权利

or to a manned, portable version of the Active Denial System --

或者是一个人性化的，便携式的

主动拒绝系统--

a small heat ray that you can use on people

一个你可以用来射击人们的小的热射线

and not worry about.

对它并不担心

So I think yes,

所以我认为，是的，肯定会有办法

there may be ways that nonlethal weapons will be great in these situations,

非致命武器在这种环境下会将会很有效

但是这里还是有一堆的问题

but there's also a whole heap of problems

需要被考虑到

that need to be considered as well.

Thanks very much.

非常感谢

(Applause)

（掌声）