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譯者: Zenan (Roy) Zhou
審譯者: Yuguo Zhang
00:15
What I want to talk to you about today
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今天我將跟各位探討的
00:17
is some of the problems that the military
of the Western world --
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是西方世界的軍隊
諸如澳大利亞,美國,英國等等
00:22
Australia, United States,
the UK and so on --
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在調遣部署時所面臨的一些問題.
00:25
face in some of the deployments
that they're dealing with
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在調遣部署時所面臨的一些問題.
00:28
in the modern world at this time.
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如果你試想一下 --
00:30
If you think about the sorts of things
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00:31
we've sent Australian military
personnel to in recent years,
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近幾年我們派給澳大利亞軍隊的任務;
如伊拉克和阿富汗
00:35
we've got obvious things
like Iraq and Afghanistan,
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00:37
but you've also got things like
East Timor and the Solomon Islands,
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還有东帝汶 【位于东南亚】 —
和所罗门群岛 ,等等,
00:40
and so on.
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00:41
And a lot of these deployments
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很多諸如此類的軍事任務--
00:43
that we're sending
military personnel to these days
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很多諸如此類的軍事任務--
00:46
aren't traditional wars.
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並不是我們所熟悉的傳統戰爭。
00:48
In fact, a lot of the jobs
we're asking military personnel to do
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事實上,很多這些我們讓士兵做的事情
事實上,很多這些我們讓士兵做的事情
00:52
in those situations
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00:53
are ones that, in their own countries --
Australia, the US and so on --
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在像澳大利亞和美國這樣的國家
都是由警察包辦的。
00:57
would actually be done by police officers.
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00:59
So there's a bunch
of problems that come up
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所以,當士兵從事此類任務時 --
01:01
for military personnel
in these situations,
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會遇到很多問題。
01:03
because they're doing things
they haven't really been trained for.
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因為他們對這樣的任務並沒有受過良好的訓練,
另外,真正從事此類任務的 --
01:07
And they're doing things that those
who do them in their own countries
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警務人員接受的是完全不同的培訓,
警務人員接受的是完全不同的培訓,
01:12
are trained very differently for
and equipped very differently for.
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就連他們的裝備也截然不同。
01:15
Now, there's a bunch of reasons
why we send military personnel,
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當然這裡有很多原因為什麼 --
我們會派遣士兵 --
01:19
rather than police, to do these jobs.
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而不是警察去做這些事情。
01:21
If Australia had to send
1,000 people tomorrow
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假如澳大利亞要在一夜之間調動一千個人 --
01:24
to West Papua, for example,
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去西巴布亚。
我們沒有一千名警務人員
01:27
we don't have 1,000 police officers
hanging around that could go tomorrow,
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在那明天就可以馬上走人。
01:30
and we do have
1,000 soldiers that could go.
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但我們的確有一千名士兵隨時都能走。
所以,當我們要調動人時,我們會派這些士兵去,
01:33
So when we have to send someone,
we send the military --
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因為他們就在那隨時準備待命。
01:36
they're there, they're available,
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01:37
and heck, they're used to going off
and doing these things
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在某種意義上 --
這些士兵的確也能勝任此類任務
01:40
and living by themselves
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01:41
and not having all this extra support.
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他們習慣了在沒有後勤的情況下,去這去哪,做這做那的。
01:43
So they are able to do it in that sense.
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他們習慣了在沒有後勤的情況下,去這去哪,做這做那的。
但是問題就在於他們所受的訓練與警務人員的不同,
01:46
But they aren't trained
the same way police officers are,
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當然他們的裝備也不一樣。
01:49
and they're certainly not equipped
the way police officers are,
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所以,士兵在處理這類事務時會遇到很多麻煩。
01:52
so this has raised
a bunch of problems for them
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所以,士兵在處理這類事務時會遇到很多麻煩。
01:54
when dealing with these issues.
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01:55
One particular thing that's come up
that I am especially interested in,
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一個特別讓我感興趣的問題是,
一個特別讓我感興趣的問題是,
01:59
is the question of whether,
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當我們派遣這些士兵去做這些任務時,
02:00
when we're sending military personnel
to do these sorts of jobs,
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我們應不應該讓他們攜帶不同的裝備
我們應不應該讓他們攜帶不同的裝備
02:04
we ought to be equipping them differently;
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確切的說,我們應不應該讓士兵們配備
02:06
and in particular, whether we ought
to be giving them access
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警務人員所使用的非殺傷性武器。
02:09
to some of the nonlethal weapons
that police have.
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既然這些士兵們也在做
02:11
Since they're doing some of the same jobs,
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和警察他們做的一樣的事情,他們也應該裝備的一樣。
02:13
maybe they should have
some of those things.
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當然,你會想在很多地方,
02:15
And there's a range of places you'd think
those things would be really useful.
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這些非殺傷性武器還是挺管用的。
比如說,軍事關卡。
02:19
For example, when you've got
military checkpoints.
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02:21
If people are approaching
these checkpoints
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如果有人靠近這些關卡,
並且,士兵們不知道
02:24
and the military personnel are unsure
if this person's hostile or not,
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此人是不是會具有危險性。
02:27
say this person approaching
here, and they say,
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他們會想
"這是不是人肉炸彈?”
02:30
"Is this a suicide bomber or not?
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02:31
Is something hidden under their clothes?
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“他們是不是藏了一些東西在他們的衣服裡面?到底會發生什麽
?”
02:33
What's going to happen?"
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你不知道這人是不是心懷鬼胎
02:34
They don't know if the person
is hostile or not.
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如果這人不聽從士兵們的指示
02:37
If the person doesn't follow directions,
they may end up shooting them,
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士兵很可能就會開槍射擊
等事情過後,他們才能知道
02:40
and then find out afterwards
either, yes, we shot the right person,
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“好啊!我們殺對人了。”
02:43
or, no, this was just an innocent person
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“不!我們殺了無辜的老百姓。“
02:45
who didn't understand what was going on.
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“不!我們殺了無辜的老百姓。“
02:47
So if they had nonlethal weapons,
then they would say,
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但是,如果士兵們有非殺傷性武器
他們會想,”在這些情況下,我們可以用這個。”
02:50
"We can use them
in that sort of situation.
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”至少,當我們搞錯人的時候
02:52
If we shoot someone who wasn't hostile,
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,我們不會殺了他們。“
02:54
at least we haven't killed them."
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還有一個例子。
02:56
Another situation: this photo
is from one of the missions
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這張照片是拍自1990年末,巴爾幹半島的
02:59
in the Balkans in the late 1990s.
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一次任務。
這次任務和上一個有所不同。
03:02
This situation is a little bit different,
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這次,士兵們知道誰是敵人
03:04
where maybe they know someone is hostile;
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有人很明顯的對士兵們表現出敵意,
03:06
they've got someone shooting at them
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03:07
or doing something else
that's clearly hostile,
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如開槍,扔石頭什麼的。
03:09
throwing rocks, whatever.
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但是,如果士兵在這個時候回擊的話,
03:11
But if they respond,
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03:12
there's a range of other people around
who are innocent people,
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很可能會連類一大群無辜的老百姓。
03:15
who might also get hurt.
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03:16
It'd be collateral damage
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軍事人員一般都不喜歡談論像這樣的附帶損害
03:17
that the military
often doesn't want to talk about.
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03:20
So again, they'd say, "With access
to nonlethal weapons,
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所以,他們會想,“如果有非殺傷性武器的話,
然後我們知道誰是敵意的,
03:23
if we've got someone we know is hostile,
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至少我們不會束手無策
03:25
we can do something to deal with them,
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,就算是傷及了無辜
03:27
and know that if we hit anyone else,
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03:28
at least we're not going to kill them."
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至少我們不會殺死這些老百姓。
還有一個建議是,
03:31
Another suggestion has been,
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03:32
since we're putting so many
robots in the field,
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現在越來越多的機器人被使用在不同的任務中
我們也能預想到
03:35
we can see the time coming
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03:36
where they're actually going
to send robots out in the field
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在不久的將來,完全自動化的機器人會被派遣到戰場上。
03:39
that are autonomous.
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他們會在沒有人類控制的情況下,
03:40
They'll make their own decisions
about who to shoot and who not to shoot,
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自我決定要向誰射擊。
03:43
without a human in the loop.
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所以,一個建議是,
03:45
So the suggestion is,
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03:46
if we're going to send robots out
and allow them to do this,
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如果我們真的要派遣機器人去執行這些任務
,給機器人裝備非殺傷性武器可能是更明智之舉
03:49
maybe it would be a good idea
if they were armed with nonlethal weapons,
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,給機器人裝備非殺傷性武器可能是更明智之舉
這樣的話,就算機器人做錯了決定,射錯了人
03:54
so if the robot makes a bad decision
and shoots the wrong person,
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至少他們不會殺了他們。
03:57
again, they haven't actually killed them.
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現在有不同種類,各種各樣的非殺傷性武器,
03:59
Now, there's a whole range
of different sorts of nonlethal weapons,
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其中一些現在已經在使用了,
04:03
some of which are available now,
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還有一些正在研製當中。
04:04
some of which they're developing.
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所以,我們有傳統的非殺傷武器如胡椒喷雾剂
04:06
You've got traditional things
like pepper spray,
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O.C.噴霧在這上面
04:08
OC spray up at the top there,
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或者泰瑟枪(電擊槍)在這。
04:10
or Tasers over here.
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在右上角是一把刺眼的鐳射槍。
04:12
The one on the top right here
is actually a dazzling laser,
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這種鐳射槍可以讓敵人暫時失明,
04:15
intended to just blind
the person momentarily
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從而使他們失去方向感。
04:17
and disorient them.
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我們還有裝有橡膠子彈的非殺傷性霰弹猎枪,
04:19
You've got nonlethal shotgun rounds
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我們還有裝有橡膠子彈的非殺傷性霰弹獵槍,
04:21
that contain rubber pellets
instead of the traditional metal ones.
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用來取代傳統的金屬制的子彈。
04:24
And this one in the middle
here, the large truck,
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還有,在這個圖像中間的這輛大卡車
04:27
is called the Active Denial System,
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其實是美軍現在正在使用的,主动压制系统。
04:29
something the US military
is working on at the moment.
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其實是美軍現在正在使用的,主动压制系统。
04:32
It's essentially a big
microwave transmitter.
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它在本質上其實是一個大的微波傳導器。
它就是所謂的熱射線。
04:36
It's sort of your classic
idea of a heat ray.
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比起其它的東西(輻射)
04:39
It goes out to a really long distance,
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04:41
compared to any of these
other sorts of things.
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熱射線能夠延伸到更遠的距離。
被(熱射線)擊中的人
04:44
Anybody who is hit with this
feels a sudden burst of heat,
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會感到瞬間的灼熱感,
04:47
and just wants to get out of the way.
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使得他(她)都想躲開。
當然,它比一個微波爐要來的複雜,
04:50
It is a lot more sophisticated
than a microwave oven,
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04:52
but it basically is boiling
the water molecules
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但是,它其實就是在煮你皮膚表面的水分子。
但是,它其實就是在煮你皮膚表面的水分子。
04:55
in the very surface level of your skin.
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所以,你會感到極度的熱量
04:57
So you feel this massive heat,
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然後你會想,“我想離開這裡!”
04:59
and you go, "I want
to get out of the way."
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所以,他們(軍事人員)想,這東西可能在像
05:01
And they think this will be really useful
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05:03
in places where we need to clear
a crowd out of a particular area,
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驅趕人群的這樣的場合中會很管用。
如果人群懷有敵意,
05:07
if the crowd is being hostile.
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然後,我們想讓這群人遠離某些地方
05:08
If we need to keep people
away from a particular place,
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我們就可以使用像這樣的東西(主动压制系统)。
05:11
we can do that with these sorts of things.
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05:13
So there's a whole range
of different nonlethal weapons
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所以,有很多不同種類的非殺傷性武器
我們可以提供給軍事人員。
05:16
we could give military personnel,
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05:18
and there's a whole range of situations
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另外,在很多種不同的形勢下,
05:20
where they're looking at them and saying,
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他們會認為非殺傷性武器會很管用。
05:22
"These things would be really useful."
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但是,我認為
05:24
But as I said,
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05:25
the military and the police
are very different.
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士兵和警察
是截然不同的。(笑)
05:28
(Laughter)
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05:29
Yes, you don't have to look
very hard at this to recognize
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當然,就算你不那麼仔細的觀察
你也會發現他們可能有所不同。
05:32
that they might be very different.
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更確切的說,
05:34
In particular,
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05:35
the attitude to the use of force
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他們對使用武力的態度
05:37
and the way they're trained to use force
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和他們對使用武力所接受的訓練
05:39
is especially different.
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是非常不一樣的。
警察們 --
05:42
The police --
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05:43
and knowing because I've actually
helped to train police --
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我了解他們,因為我曾經訓練過他們 --
05:46
police, particularly
in Western jurisdictions at least,
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警察,尤其是在西方體制下的警察
05:49
are trained to De-escalate force,
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所接受的訓練是如何緩解衝突,
他們試圖盡量避免使用武力,
05:53
to try and avoid using force
wherever possible,
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他們試圖盡量避免使用武力,
05:56
and to use lethal force
only as an absolute last resort.
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只有在逼不得已的情況下
他們才會使用致命武器。
06:01
Military personnel
are being trained for war.
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士兵是為了戰爭而訓練的,
06:04
So they're trained that,
as soon as things go bad,
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,所以一旦形勢惡化了,他們的第一反應
06:07
their first response is lethal force.
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就是使用致命武器。
06:11
The moment the fecal matter
hits the rotating turbine --
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在大難臨頭之際
06:14
(Laughter)
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06:15
you can start shooting at people.
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士兵們就可以開始掃射群眾。
所以他們對使用武力的態度是十分不同的,
06:19
So their attitudes
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06:20
to the use of lethal force
are very different,
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所以他們對使用武力的態度是十分不同的。
想當然地,
06:23
and I think it's fairly obvious
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06:24
that their attitude to the use
of nonlethal weapons
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他們對使用非殺傷性武器的態度
06:27
would also be very different
from what it is with the police.
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也會和警察的不同。
我認為觀察這類事情
06:31
And since we've already had
so many problems
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並試圖將它與戰爭聯繫起來會是個不錯的主意。
06:33
with police use of nonlethal
weapons in various ways,
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因為就連警察在使用非殺傷性武器時
06:36
I thought it would be a good idea
to look at some of those things
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也遇到了種種問題。
06:39
and relate it to the military context.
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我當時覺得很奇怪,當我開始做這件事的時候
06:41
I was very surprised when I started
to do this to see that, in fact,
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我驚奇的發現
06:44
even the people who advocated the use
of nonlethal weapons by the military
158
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就連那些支持推廣非殺傷性武器的軍事人員
也都還沒開始做這件事。
06:48
hadn't actually done that.
159
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06:49
They generally seemed to think,
160
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他們通常認為,
06:51
"Why would we care
what's happened with the police?
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“我們為什麼要去關注在警察身上發生了什麽?
06:53
We're looking at something different,"
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警察和士兵可不同。"
06:55
and didn't seem to recognize
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1412
但是他們好像並沒有發現,事實上
06:57
they were looking at pretty
much the same stuff.
164
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2447
他們(警察和士兵)所遇到的是一類問題。
06:59
So I started to investigate
some of those issues,
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所以,我就開始研究並調查這類事情。
所以,我就開始研究並調查這類事情。
07:02
and have a look at the way
police use nonlethal weapons
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非殺傷性武器剛被採用時,警察是如何使用它的。
07:06
when they're introduced,
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並且,他們在使用過程中遇到了那些問題。
07:07
and some of the problems that might
arise out of those sorts of things
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並且,他們在使用過程中遇到了那些問題。
07:10
when they actually do introduce them.
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2027
並且,他們在使用過程中遇到了那些問題。
07:12
And of course, being Australian,
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,理所當然的,作為一位澳大利亞人
我對在不同時間(澳)引進非殺傷性武器的事情比較楚,
07:15
I started looking at stuff in Australia,
knowing from my own experience
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我對在不同時間(澳)引進非殺傷性武器的事情比較楚,
07:19
of various times when nonlethal weapons
have been introduced in Australia.
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所以我首先調查了澳大利亞
我當時特別關注的事情之一就是
07:23
One of the things I particularly
looked at was the use of OC spray --
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O.C.噴霧器是如何被警察所使用,
07:26
oleoresin capsicum spray, pepper spray --
174
446616
2513
O.C.噴霧器是如何被警察所使用,
諸如,辣椒红色素喷雾、胡椒喷雾,、。
07:29
by Australian police,
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1932
另外還有,當O.C 噴霧器被採用時所發生的事情,
07:31
and seeing what had happened
when that had been introduced,
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和諸如此類的事宜。
07:33
and those sorts of issues.
177
453944
1479
我覺得有這麼 一個在昆士蘭的研究
07:35
And one study that I found,
a particularly interesting one,
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3106
我覺得有這麼 一個在昆士蘭的研究
07:38
was in Queensland,
179
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1897
特別有意思。
07:40
because they had a trial period
for the use of pepper spray
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3425
因為他們在全面推廣胡椒喷雾前
07:43
before they actually
introduced it more broadly.
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2450
有一段適用期。
07:46
And I went and had a look
at some of the figures here.
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2849
然我就看了看數據。
07:49
Now, when they introduced
OC spray in Queensland,
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2507
當初他們在昆士蘭引進 O.C 噴霧時
目標很明確.
07:52
they were really explicit.
184
472396
1572
07:53
The police minister's and a heap
of public statements were made about it.
185
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3496
他們並且在這方面做了很多的公共聲明.
他們說,"這是一個很明確的指示
07:57
They were saying, "This is explicitly
intended to give police an option
186
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3393
我們想要給警務人在警告和開槍之間
08:00
between shouting and shooting.
187
480929
2119
多增加一種選擇.
在這些之前需要開槍的情況中,
08:04
This is something they can use
instead of a firearm
188
484118
2718
08:06
in situations where they would have
previously had to shoot someone."
189
486860
3269
警察可以使用O.C噴霧,而不是槍.
雖然, 像這種警察開槍數據
08:10
So I looked at all
of the police shooting figures.
190
490153
2683
08:12
And you can't actually
find them very easily
191
492860
2096
在澳大利亞各個州很難找到
08:14
for individual Australian states;
192
494980
1856
我還是找到並調查了這些統計數據。
08:16
I could only find these.
193
496860
1516
我只找到了這些數據。
08:18
This is from an Australian Institute
of Criminology report.
194
498400
2799
這是來自於,澳大利亚犯罪学学院的报告
就如你們在這上面所看到的
08:21
You can see, in the fine print at the top:
195
501223
2008
“警察開槍所導致的死亡” 不只包括被警察開搶射死的人
08:23
"Police shooting deaths"
means not just people shot by police,
196
503255
3225
還包括了那些在警察面前開搶射殺自己的人。
08:26
but people who have shot themselves
in the presence of police.
197
506504
3030
08:29
But these are the figures
across the entire country,
198
509558
2451
這是全國性的數據
正如崑山頓,這個紅色箭頭表示的
08:32
and the red arrow represents
the point where Queensland said,
199
512033
3104
正如崑山頓,這個紅色箭頭表示的,
08:35
"Yes, this is where we're going to give
200
515161
1894
“這裡就是那些在全國需要給警務人員配備O.C噴霧的地區”
08:37
all police officers
across the entire state
201
517079
2140
“這裡就是那些在全國需要給警務人員配備O.C噴霧的地區”
08:39
access to OC spray."
202
519243
1503
08:40
So you can see there were six deaths
sort of leading up to it,
203
520770
3066
所以在這裡你可以看見六個死亡組合,從低到高,
08:43
every year for a number of years.
204
523860
2071
數據包括了數年。
08:45
There was a spike a few years before,
205
525955
1881
在前幾年,這裡有一個忽漲
08:47
but that wasn't actually Queensland.
206
527860
1842
,但是這裡不是昆士兰州。
08:49
Anyone know where that was?
207
529726
1631
誰知道這是哪裡? 不, 不是 阿瑟港
08:51
Wasn't Port Arthur, no.
208
531381
1621
維多利亞? 對了。
08:53
Victoria? Yes, correct.
209
533026
2078
這裡的猛增多來源於維多利亞。
08:55
That spike was all Victoria.
210
535128
1977
08:57
(Laughter)
211
537129
1151
所以,不是只有昆士兰州有這些問題
08:58
So it wasn't that Queensland
had a particular problem
212
538304
2564
,問題像警察射殺所導致的死亡之類的。
09:00
with deaths from police
shootings and so on.
213
540892
2695
09:03
So, six shootings
across the whole country,
214
543611
2413
在全國有六個射殺事件。
在前幾年,這個數字相當的穩定
09:06
fairly consistently over the years before.
215
546048
2037
所以,當他們引進了O.C 噴霧以後的那兩年裡 , 2001 和 2002 年裡。
09:08
The next two years were the years
they studied -- 2001, 2002.
216
548109
2952
所以,當他們引進了O.C 噴霧以後的那兩年裡 , 2001 和 2002 年裡。
09:11
Anyone want to take a stab
at the number of times,
217
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2912
他們研究了在昆士兰州,警察使用噴霧器的數量。
09:14
given how they've introduced this,
218
554021
1656
09:15
the number of times police in Queensland
used OC spray in that period?
219
555701
3468
有沒有人想要猜一猜這個數字?
一百? 一, 三。
09:19
Hundreds? One? Three?
220
559193
2106
一千更接近了。
09:21
A thousand is getting better.
221
561685
1519
09:25
Explicitly introduced as an alternative
to the use of lethal force --
222
565731
3986
這是一個很明確的意圖,
除了使用致命武器外另外一個選擇 --
09:29
an alternative between
shouting and shooting.
223
569741
2714
在警告和開槍之間,多增加一種選擇.
09:32
I'm going to go out on a limb here
224
572479
1977
我現在想說得再明白點(爬高枝)
09:34
and say that if Queensland police
didn't have OC spray,
225
574480
3288
如果昆士兰州的警察沒有使用噴霧劑的話,
09:37
they wouldn't have shot 2,226 people
226
577792
2781
他們不可能在這兩年裡,射殺了2226 個人。
09:40
in those two years.
227
580597
1371
他們不可能在這兩年裡,射殺了2226 個人。
09:41
(Laughter)
228
581992
1199
事實上,如果你看一看
09:44
In fact, if you have a look
at the studies they were looking at,
229
584482
3199
他們調查結果。他們所收集的資料和審查,
09:47
the material they were
collecting and examining,
230
587705
3282
他們調查結果。他們所收集的資料和審查,
你會發現在警察使用噴霧器的事件中,
09:51
you can see the suspects were only armed
in about 15 percent of cases
231
591011
4612
只有百分之15是的嫌疑犯
09:55
where OC spray was used.
232
595647
1577
攜帶了武器。
在那個時期,O.C噴霧器是被常規的使用的,
09:58
It was routinely being
used in this period,
233
598079
2638
10:00
and, of course, still is routinely used --
234
600741
2119
當然,現在也是 --
10:02
because there were no complaints about it,
235
602884
2382
這是應為,沒有對這類事件有任何的投訴
至少在這個調查中沒有 --
10:05
not within the context
of this study, anyway --
236
605290
3098
噴霧器在面對這類人被常規的使用,
10:08
it was routinely being used
to deal with people who were violent,
237
608412
3812
比如說暴力的人,
或者具有暴力傾向的人
10:12
who were potentially violent,
238
612248
1703
10:13
and also quite frequently used
239
613975
2317
另外,噴霧器也會被拿來
對付那些只是不喜歡
10:16
to deal with people who were
simply passively noncompliant.
240
616316
3151
順從警察命令的那些人。
10:21
This person is not doing anything violent,
241
621482
2085
這些人沒有做任何具有暴力傾向的事,
10:23
but they just won't do
what we want them to.
242
623591
2085
但是,他們只是不想去做別人讓他們做的事,
10:25
They're not obeying
the directions we're giving them,
243
625700
2513
他們沒有服從警察的命令,
所以警察就對他們使用了O.C噴霧器。
10:28
so we'll give them a shot
of the OC spray -- that'll speed them up.
244
628237
3152
這樣可以迅速解決問題。
10:31
Everything will work out better that way.
245
631413
2069
10:33
This was something explicitly introduced
246
633964
2404
這就是他們所說的,“在使用手槍以外,
有另外一個選擇,
10:36
to be an alternative to firearms,
247
636392
1832
但是,O.C 噴霧器在很多的領域中和其他的問題中
10:38
but it's being routinely used
248
638248
1977
但是,O.C 噴霧器在很多的領域中和其他的問題中
10:40
to deal with a whole range
of other sorts of problems.
249
640249
2984
被過度使用了。
10:43
Now one of the particular
issues that comes up
250
643726
2324
現在,我們來說說,軍事人員在使用非殺傷性武器所遇到的問題
現在,我們來說說,軍事人員在使用非殺傷性武器所遇到的問題
10:46
with military use of nonlethal weapons --
251
646074
2762
10:48
and people actually say,
"There might be some problems" --
252
648860
2919
人們說, “可能會有一些問題”
10:51
there's a couple of particular
problems that get focused on.
253
651803
3033
其中有些問題被特別關注了。
其中一個問題就是
10:55
One of those problems is: nonlethal
weapons may be used indiscriminately.
254
655221
5151
非殺傷性武器被不加以區分地使用了。
軍事人員在使用武力時所要依循的原則之一
11:00
One of the fundamental principles
of military use of force
255
660396
3221
就是要懂得辨別。
11:03
is that you have to be discriminate;
256
663641
1768
當你要開槍時要非常小心
11:05
you have to be careful
about who you're shooting at.
257
665433
2753
所以, 由於, 你不需要太擔心使用非殺傷性武器
11:08
So one of the problems suggested
with nonlethal weapons
258
668210
2626
11:10
is that they might be used
indiscriminately --
259
670860
2191
其中一個使用非殺傷性武器的問題
就是它們被隨意地使用在一批人身上。
11:13
that you would use them
against a whole range of people,
260
673075
2636
就是它們被隨意地使用在一批人身上。
11:15
because you don't have
to worry so much anymore.
261
675735
2305
事實上,我覺得有一個例子,
11:18
And in fact, one particular instance
where I think that actually happens
262
678064
3611
一個已經發生了的例子可以說明問題。
11:21
was the Dubrovka Theater
siege in Moscow in 2002,
263
681699
2858
那就是在2002年,俄羅斯大劇院人質事件。
11:24
which probably a lot of you,
unlike most of my students at ADFA,
264
684581
3015
不像我的一些年輕的學生們,
大部分在座的老一輩應該還能記得。
11:27
are old enough to remember.
265
687620
1593
一些車臣份子闖進了劇院,並且控制了全場。
11:29
So, Chechens had come in
and taken control of the theater.
266
689237
2761
他們挾持了將近700多名人質。
11:32
They were holding something
like 700 people hostage.
267
692022
3308
雖然他們釋放了其中一些人,
11:35
They'd released a bunch of people,
268
695354
1630
但是他們還是有將近700名人質。
11:37
but they still had
about 700 people hostage.
269
697008
2366
11:39
And the Russian military police
special forces, "Spetsnaz,"
270
699398
5438
然後,俄羅斯特總部隊,
雪域特戰隊,
11:44
came in and stormed the theater.
271
704860
1976
偷襲並橫掃了劇院。
11:46
The way they did it was to pump
the whole thing full of anesthetic gas.
272
706860
3443
他們先是將整個劇院灌入麻醉氣體。
結果發現
11:50
And it turned out
that lots of the hostages died
273
710327
4602
很多人質由於吸入了這些氣體
11:54
as a result of inhaling the gas.
274
714953
1915
而死亡。
11:57
It was used indiscriminately.
275
717741
2095
這就是一個任意濫用武器的例子。
11:59
They pumped the whole theater
full of the gas.
276
719860
2397
不難想像,有人會因為這而喪身。
12:02
And it's no surprise that people died,
277
722749
2690
他們把這個劇院灌滿了麻醉氣體。
你不知道每個人會吸入多少氣體,
12:05
because you don't know how much gas
each person is going to inhale,
278
725463
3373
你不知道每個人會吸入多少氣體,
12:08
what position they'll fall in when
they become unconscious, and so on.
279
728860
3895
當他們失去意識時,會以什麼姿勢倒地,等等。
當他們失去意識時,會以什麼姿勢倒地,等等。
12:12
There were, in fact,
only a couple of people who got shot
280
732779
3057
事實上,整個事件只有兩個人被開槍射擊
12:15
in this episode.
281
735860
1444
事實上,整個事件只有兩個人被開槍射擊
12:17
So when they had a look at it afterward,
282
737860
1976
所以,當他們回顧發現,
12:19
there were only a couple of people
who'd apparently been shot,
283
739860
2942
只有兩個人是明顯地被挾持者或特總部隊開槍射擊而亡。
只有兩個人是明顯地被挾持者或特總部隊開槍射擊而亡。
12:22
by the hostage takers
or by the police forces
284
742826
2876
只有兩個人是明顯地被挾持者或特總部隊開槍射擊而亡。
12:25
trying to deal with the situation.
285
745726
2006
只有兩個人是明顯地被挾持者或特總部隊開槍射擊而亡。
12:27
Virtually everybody that got killed
286
747756
1707
幾乎所有喪生的人都是由於
12:29
got killed from inhaling the gas.
287
749487
2421
吸入了這種麻醉氣體。
最後喪生的人質總數
12:32
The final toll of hostages
is a little unclear,
288
752383
3328
還是有點不清楚
12:35
but it's certainly a few more than that,
289
755735
1928
但肯定是比當場死亡人數要多,
12:37
because other people died
over the next few days.
290
757687
2289
因為有些人在過後幾天身亡。
這就是其中一個我們所說的
12:40
So this was one problem they talked about,
291
760000
2047
濫用非致命性武器的問題。
12:42
that it might be used indiscriminately.
292
762071
1864
12:43
A second problem
people sometimes talk about
293
763959
2245
第二個人們時常談到的在使用非殺傷性武器時的問題,
第二個人們時常談到的在使用非殺傷性武器時的問題,
12:46
with military use of nonlethal weapons --
294
766228
1968
這也是化學武器公約裡所談到的,
12:48
and it's actually why,
in the chemical weapons convention,
295
768220
2879
很明顯的,不應把軍用化學武器
12:51
it's very clear that you can't use
riot-control agents
296
771123
2573
用於戰爭
12:53
as weapons of warfare --
297
773720
1289
這個問題就在於
12:55
is that it's seen that sometimes
nonlethal weapons might be used
298
775033
4029
這些非殺傷性武器不是用於替代殺傷性武器的
12:59
not as an alternative to lethal force,
299
779086
1921
而是用來輔助殺傷性武器的 --
13:01
but as a lethal force multiplier:
300
781031
2276
13:03
that you use nonlethal weapons first,
301
783974
1941
你可以先使用非殺傷性武器
13:05
so your lethal weapons
will actually be more effective.
302
785939
2976
然後你再使用殺傷性武器時就會變得更有效。
被你射擊的人將無法躲開。
13:09
The people you'll be shooting at
won't be able to get out of the way.
303
789417
3356
被你射擊的人將無法躲開。
13:12
They won't be aware of what's happening,
and you can kill them better.
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你可以更輕鬆的殺死他們,因為他們不知道發生了什麼。
然而事實上,那正是所發生的事
13:16
And that's exactly what happened here.
305
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13:18
The hostage takers who had
been rendered unconscious by the gas
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那些由於吸入氣體而昏迷的挾持人質者
沒有被逮捕,
13:22
were not taken into custody;
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13:23
they were simply shot in the head.
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而是被直接爆了頭。
13:26
So this nonlethal weapon
was being used in this case
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所以,在這場事件中,
非殺傷性武器被用來
13:30
as a lethal force multiplier,
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輔助殺傷性武器,
13:33
to make killing more effective
in this particular situation.
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從而可以更有效率的殺戮。
從而可以更有效率的殺戮。
13:38
Another problem I want to quickly mention
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我還想簡單的提一下另一個問題,
那就是,人所接受的非殺傷性武器的培訓方法
13:41
is that there's a whole heap of problems
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那就是,人所接受的非殺傷性武器的培訓方法
13:43
with the way people are actually
taught to use nonlethal weapons,
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那就是,人所接受的非殺傷性武器的培訓方法
13:46
and get trained about them
and then tested and so on.
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有堆積如山的問題。
因為他們是在一個良好及安全的環境下接受訓練
13:49
Because they're tested
in nice, safe environments,
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同樣,他們也是在這樣的環境下接受考核。
13:52
and are taught to use them
in nice, safe environments --
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13:54
like this, where you can see
exactly what's going on.
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就像這裡,你可以確切地看到發生了什麼。
這裡在使用O.C噴霧器的人戴着塑膠手套
13:58
The person spraying the OC spray
is wearing a rubber glove
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以確保他們不會被污染
14:01
to make sure they don't get
contaminated, and so on.
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但是在現實中,這些殺傷性武器
14:03
But they're never used like that.
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不是被這樣使用的,
14:05
They're used out in the real world,
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就像在德克萨斯州,“警察對老奶奶使用電擊槍”
14:07
like in Texas, like this:
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2334
14:09
["Police Taser Great-Grandmother
During Traffic Stop"]
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我承認, 這一事件
14:12
I confess, this particular case
was one that piqued my interest in this.
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3486
激起了我的興趣。
14:15
It happened while I was working
as a research fellow
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855860
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這件事情發生的時候,我是美國海軍學院的一名研究員
14:18
at the US Naval Academy.
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858332
1188
那時,新聞開始播報這件事
14:19
News reports started
coming up about this situation,
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859544
2977
一個老奶奶和警務人員發生了爭執
14:22
where this woman was arguing
with a police officer.
329
862545
2400
14:24
She wasn't violent.
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864969
1383
她並不暴力
14:26
In fact, he was probably
six inches taller than me,
331
866376
2913
這個警察比我高六英寸
,而老奶奶有差不多怎麼高
14:29
and she was about this tall.
332
869313
1538
14:31
And eventually she said to him,
333
871632
1707
最後她對警察說
14:33
"Well, I'm going to get back in my car."
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873363
2101
“我現在要回到我的車上了。”
14:35
And he says, "If you get back
in your car, I'm going to tase you."
335
875488
3142
然後他說,“如果你回到你的車上,我就會使用電擊槍."
然後她說, “好啊,來呀,電我啊。” 然後他就照做了。
14:38
And she says, "Oh, go ahead.
Tase me." And so he does.
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3120
這一切被攝像頭記錄了下來。
14:41
And it's all captured by the video camera
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2015
這一切被攝像頭記錄了下來。
14:43
running in the front of the police car.
338
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2657
所以,她是72歲
14:47
So, she's 72.
339
887436
2142
這看來是對付她最適當的方法。
14:50
And it's seen that this is the most
appropriate way of dealing with her.
340
890332
3454
14:53
And there are other examples
of the same sorts of things,
341
893810
3125
還有其它類似的例子,
這些例子讓你質疑,
14:56
where you think,
342
896959
1166
“這真的是使用非殺傷武器最適合的方法嗎?”
14:58
"Is this really an appropriate way
to use nonlethal weapons?"
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898149
3330
“警察局長朝14歲女孩的頭部使用電擊槍。”
15:01
"Police Chief Fires Taser
into 14 year old Girl's Head."
344
901503
2632
“她逃跑了,我別無選擇”
15:04
"She was running away.
What else was I suppose to do?"
345
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2564
(笑聲)
15:06
(Laughter)
346
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2222
15:08
Or Florida:
347
908993
1268
或者, 佛罗里达
15:10
"Police Taser 6-year-old
Boy at Elementary School."
348
910953
2810
“警察在小學對六歲男孩使用電擊槍。”
15:13
And they clearly learned a lot from it,
because in the same district:
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913787
3737
他們肯定從中吸取了教訓。
因為這兩件事發生在同一個社區
15:17
"Police Review Policy
After Children Shocked:
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917548
2641
“孩子被電擊,警察重新修訂政策;
在一星期內,兩名孩童被電擊槍擊中。”
15:20
2nd Child Shocked by Taser
Stun Gun Within Weeks."
351
920213
2707
15:22
Same police district.
352
922944
1960
又同一個社區,
15:24
Another child within weeks
of Tasering the six-year-old boy.
353
924928
3185
在六歲男童被電擊後的幾個禮拜裡,有另一個孩童被電了。
你可能覺得
15:28
Just in case you think it's only going
to happen in the United States,
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928137
3485
這事只會發生在美國
15:31
it happened in Canada as well:
355
931646
1818
但是,這種事也在加拿大發生了。
15:33
["Mounties Zap 11-year-old Boy"]
356
933488
1546
我的一個同事從倫敦發給了我這個, “被捕82歲男人被電擊”
15:35
And a colleague sent me
this one from London:
357
935058
2110
我的一個同事從倫敦發給了我這個, “被捕82歲男人被電擊”
15:37
["Arrested Man, 82, Shot with Taser"]
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937192
1870
但是我必須承認,我最喜歡的還是
15:39
But my personal favorite,
I have to confess, does come from the US:
359
939086
4411
來自於美國的;
15:43
"Officers Taser 86-year-old
Disabled Woman in her Bed."
360
943521
3292
“警員電擊了一個躺在床上的86歲殘疾女性。”
15:46
(Laughter)
361
946837
2206
我查了查關於這事件的報導。
15:49
I checked the reports on this one.
362
949067
2104
我看了以後大吃一驚。
15:51
I looked at it. I was really surprised.
363
951195
2074
15:53
Apparently, she took up a more
threatening position in her bed.
364
953293
4168
很明顯的,她躺在床上時更具有危險性。
(笑聲)
15:57
(Laughter)
365
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1690
我沒開玩笑,這真的
15:59
I kid you not,
that's exactly what it said:
366
959199
2049
“她躺在床上時更具有危險性。”
16:01
"She took up a more threatening
position in her bed."
367
961272
2987
好的。
16:04
OK.
368
964626
1316
16:05
But I'd remind you --
369
965966
1445
但是我想要提醒你我今天的主題,
16:07
I'm talking about military
uses of nonlethal weapons,
370
967435
2516
我想要說的是軍事人員(士兵)在使用非殺傷性武器時的問題
16:09
so why is this relevant?
371
969975
1158
所以,這有什麼關聯嗎?
16:11
Because police are actually
more restrained in the use of force
372
971157
3222
因為警察在使用武力時比士兵受到更多的約束,
因為警察在使用武力時比士兵受到更多的約束,
16:14
than the military are.
373
974403
1467
16:15
They're trained to be more
restrained in the use of force
374
975894
2686
所以,在訓練時,他們也被教導要更謹慎地使用武力。
16:18
than the military are.
375
978604
1170
他們會顧慮的跟多,盡量大事化小,小事化了。
16:19
They're trained to think more,
to try and De-escalate.
376
979798
2542
如果你覺得就連警察在使用非殺傷性武器時都會遇到問題,
16:22
So if you have these problems
with police officers
377
982364
2347
16:24
with nonlethal weapons,
378
984735
1166
那麼,到底什麼會讓你覺得
16:25
what on earth would make you think
379
985925
1643
軍事人員會被警察做的要好呢?
16:27
it's going to be better
with military personnel?
380
987592
2515
16:30
The last thing that I would like to say:
381
990734
2433
最後我想說的是,
當我和警員談起什麼是完美的非殺傷性武器時
16:34
When I'm talking to the police
382
994032
1437
16:35
about what a perfect nonlethal
weapon would look like,
383
995493
2540
當我和警員談起什麼是完美的非殺傷性武器時
他們必然會說同樣的話:
16:38
they almost inevitably say the same thing.
384
998057
2014
“嗯,它必需要是足夠噁心,使人們不想被它所傷。“
16:40
They say, "It's got to be something
that's nasty enough
385
1000095
2682
16:42
that people don't want
to be hit with this weapon.
386
1002801
2440
“嗯,它必需要是足夠噁心,使人們不想被它所傷。"
"當你威脅別人說要用它時,
16:45
So if you threaten to use it,
387
1005265
1403
16:46
people are going to comply with it.
388
1006692
1761
人人往往會投降。”
16:49
But it's also going to be something
389
1009756
1908
“但它還不能留下任何後遺症。”
16:51
that doesn't leave any lasting effects."
390
1011688
2079
“但它還不能留下任何後遺症。”
換句話說,完美的非殺傷性武器就是非常適用於虐待人的。
16:56
In other words,
391
1016294
1157
16:57
your perfect nonlethal weapon
is something that's perfect for abuse.
392
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3602
換句話說,完美的非殺傷性武器就是非常適用於虐待人的。
想像一下,當這些人擁有點擊槍或者一個可以操控的,便携版的主动拒止系统
17:01
What would these guys have done
if they'd had access to Tasers,
393
1021101
3549
當這些人擁有電擊槍或者一個便携版的主动拒止系统
17:04
or to a manned, portable version
of the Active Denial System --
394
1024674
3491
(主动拒止系统-能讓你使用毫米波電磁的非殺傷技術,而你卻不需要擔心後果)
(主动拒止系统-能讓你使用毫米波電磁的非殺傷技術,而你卻不需要擔心後果)
17:08
a small heat ray that you
can use on people
395
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2464
(主动拒止系统-能讓你使用毫米波電磁的非殺傷技術,而你卻不需要擔心後果)
17:11
and not worry about.
396
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1451
他們會做出什麼呢。
17:13
So I think yes,
397
1033803
1657
所以我覺得,非殺傷性武器是在一些情況下會有很大效果,
17:15
there may be ways that nonlethal weapons
will be great in these situations,
398
1035484
3550
所以我覺得,非殺傷性武器是在一些情況下會有很大效果,
但不能不考慮它所帶來的堆積如山的問題。
17:19
but there's also a whole heap of problems
399
1039058
1959
但不能不考慮它所帶來的堆積如山的問題。
17:21
that need to be considered as well.
400
1041041
1898
17:22
Thanks very much.
401
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1160
非常感謝。
17:24
(Applause)
402
1044147
2724
(鼓掌)
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