Playing with space and light | Olafur Eliasson

翻译人员: eva dovč 校对人员: Xu Jiang

I have a studio in Berlin --

我在柏林有一个工作室

let me cue on here --

让我从这里开始－

which is down there in this snow, just last weekend.

就在上个周末，那里刚下了一场大雪。

In the studio we do a lot of experiments.

在工作室我们会做很多的试验

I would consider the studio more like a laboratory.

我觉得这样的工作室更像是个实验室。

I have occasional meetings with scientists.

我偶尔跟一些科学家们见面。

And I have an academy, a part of the University of Fine Arts in Berlin.

我在柏林美术大学有一个学会。

We have an annual gathering of people,

每年我们都会将人们聚集起来，

and that is called Life in Space.

这个就叫做“生命的空间”。

Life in Space is really not necessarily about

“生命的空间”不一定是关于

how we do things, but why we do things.

我们怎么做事，而是关于我们为什么这样做。

Do you mind looking, with me, at that little cross in the center there?

请你们看中间的那小十字架。

So just keep looking. Don't mind me.

你们继续看着它。不要理会我。

So you will have a yellow circle, and we will do an after-image experiment.

你们会看见黄色的圆圈。你们看完我们要做一个残留图像的试验。

When the circle goes away you will have another color, the complementary color.

没有圈子以后，你们会看见另一种颜色，是黄色的互补色。

I am saying something. And your eyes and your brain are saying something back.

我在跟你们说的同时，你们的眼睛和脑子也就在给我回答。

This whole idea of sharing, the idea of constituting reality

这个关于共享的想法，这样的想法把现实看成

by overlapping what I say and what you say --

是我所说的和你所说的互相重叠-

think of a movie.

就好像一部电影。

Since two years now, with some stipends from the science ministry in Berlin,

这两年以来，用柏林科技部给我们的奖学金，

I've been working on these films

我一直忙于完成这些

where we produce the film together.

我们共同制作的电影。

I don't necessarily think the film is so interesting.

我并不想说这部电影非常有趣。

Obviously this is not interesting at all in the sense of the narrative.

显然从叙事角度来看，这部电影没有什么特别。

But nevertheless, what the potential is --

可不管怎么样，这部电影的潜力是－

and just keep looking there --

请你们继续看 －

what the potential is, obviously,

它的潜力是，很明显的，

is to kind of move the border of who is the author,

要改变谁是发起人和

and who is the receiver.

谁是读者的界线。

Who is the consumer, if you want,

换句话说，谁是消费者

and who has responsibility for what one sees?

谁对你看到的事情负责任？

I think there is a socializing dimension

我觉得改变这个界线

in, kind of, moving that border.

也含有社会方面的内容。

Who decides what reality is?

是谁来决定什么叫现实？

This is the Tate Modern in London.

这个是伦敦的泰特現代藝術館。

The show was, in a sense, about that.

可以说，展览的目的就是这个。

It was about a space in which I put half a semi-circular yellow disk.

我在半空放了一个半圆形的的黄色圆盘。

I also put a mirror in the ceiling, and some fog, some haze.

我在天花板贴了一个镜子，还加了雾和岚。

And my idea was to make the space tangible.

我的想法就是把那个空间变成可感知的。

With such a big space, the problem is

在那么大的空间内，问题是，

obviously that there is a discrepancy

在你身体能接收的空间

between what your body can embrace,

和空间本身，

and what the space, in that sense, is.

很明显的，两者之间存在有差异的。

So here I had the hope that by inserting some natural elements,

我希望加入一些天然的元素，

if you want -- some fog -- I could make the space tangible.

比如说雾，可以把空间变成可感知的。

And what happens is that people, they start to see themselves in this space.

然后人们就开始看到在这个空间的中的自己。

So look at this. Look at the girl.

你们看这里。看这个女孩儿。

Of course they have to look through a bloody camera

当然，没办法的，在博物馆人们要用照相机。

in a museum. Right? That's how museums are working today.

对吧？今天的博物馆就是这样的。

But look at her face there,

但是注意她的脸，

as she's checking out, looking at herself in the mirror.

她像是就在照镜子，看镜中的自己。

"Oh! That was my foot there!"

“哎，这就是我的脚嘛！”

She wasn't really sure whether she was seeing herself or not.

她不能确定她看到的是不是自己。

And in that whole idea,

所以，问题就是：

how do we configure the relationship between our body and the space?

我们怎么能确定我们的身体跟空间的关系？

How do we reconfigure it?

我们怎么能重新配置它？

How do we know that being in a space makes a difference?

我们怎么知道我们对空间有没有影响？

Do you see when I said in the beginning, it's about

你们还记得，我开始时说过的，

why, rather than how?

更重要的是为什么，而不是怎么样？

The why meant really,

为什么的意思就是，

"What consequences does it have when I take a step?"

“当我迈出一步会产生什么样的结果？

"What does it matter?"

”这个有关系吗？“

"Does it matter if I am in the world or not?"

”我存在不存在于这个世界有什么关系？“

"And does it matter whether the kind of actions I take

我是否用责任感来过滤我的行动

filter into a sense of responsibility?"

又有什么关系？

Is art about that?

艺术就是这样吗？

I would say yes. It is obviously about

我看是这样。这显然不仅是

not just about decorating the world, and making it look even better,

装饰世界和将它变得更漂亮。

or even worse, if you ask me.

或者更差，如果你问我。

It's obviously also about taking responsibility,

显然这是关于责任，

like I did here when throwing some green dye in the river

像我这样把绿色燃料扔进河里

in L.A., Stockholm, Norway and Tokyo,

在洛杉矶，斯德哥尔摩, 挪威，东京

among other places.

等等。

The green dye is not environmentally dangerous,

绿色燃料对环境没有什么坏处，

but it obviously looks really rather frightening.

可看起来很可怕。

And it's on the other side also, I think, quite beautiful,

我觉得，另一方面，它很美。

as it somehow shows the turbulence in these kind of downtown areas,

在世界上不同的地方，它也算是

in these different places of the world.

体现出市中心的喧嚣。

The "Green river," as a kind of activist idea, not a part of an exhibition,

“绿河”这样的激进想法，不是展览的一部分，

it was really about showing people,

我只是想告诉人们，

in this city, as they walk by,

在城市里，就在他们走过的时候，

that space has dimensions. A space has time.

他们就在空间的范围内。 空间具有时间性。

And the water flows through the city with time.

河流过城市也是需要时间。

The water has an ability to make

河水可以把城市变成

the city negotiable, tangible.

可探讨的， 可触知的的。

Negotiable meaning that it makes a difference

我说的可探讨的是说

whether you do something or not.

你做或不做是有区别的。

It makes a difference whether you say, "I'm a part of this city.

如果你说：“我是这个城市的一部分，“ 这是很重要的。

And if I vote it makes a difference.

我投票也很重要。

If I take a stand, it makes a difference."

如果我表明态度，这也很重要。

This whole idea of a city not being a picture is,

不把城市看成一幅图片的想法

I think, something that art, in a sense,

我认为，在艺术方面

always was working with.

一直都很重要。

The idea that art can actually evaluate the relationship

这种把艺术看成是

between what it means to be in a picture,

确定作为图片的意义和作为空间的意义的关系的观点，

and what it means to be in a space. What is the difference?

又有什么分别呢？

The difference between thinking and doing.

想事和做事的区别。

So these are different experiments with that. I won't go into them.

这就是一些不同的试验。我不想给你们讲得太仔细。

Iceland, lower right corner, my favorite place.

冰岛，右下角，我最喜欢得地方。

These kinds of experiments, they filter into architectural models.

这样的试验可以筛选出建筑模型。

These are ongoing experiments.

这些是正在进行的试验。

One is an experiment I did for BMW,

有一个是我为宝马公司做的，

an attempt to make a car.

计划用于制造汽车。

It's made out of ice.

用冰做。

A crystalline stackable principle in the center on the top,

利用水晶结晶在顶部推砌的原理

which I am trying to turn into a concert hall in Iceland.

我想把它作成冰岛的一个音乐厅。

A sort of a run track, or a walk track,

一种跑道或者人行道，

on the top of a museum in Denmark,

就在丹麦的一个博物馆的顶部，

which is made of colored glass, going all around.

用彩色玻璃环绕着。

So the movement with your legs

这样你每走一步，

will change the color of your horizon.

地平线的颜色也跟着变化。

And two summers ago at the Hyde Park in London,

两年前的夏天在伦敦的海德公园，

with the Serpentine Gallery:

蛇形艺廊内：

a kind of a temporal pavilion where

有一个时隐时现的亭子，

moving was the only way you could see the pavilion.

你只有在移动中才能看到那个亭子。

This summer, in New York:

今年夏天，纽约：

there is one thing about falling water which is very much about

瀑布的最大的特殊性

the time it takes for water to fall.

就是瀑布需要的时间。

It's quite simple and fundamental.

这很简单也很基础。

I've walked a lot in the mountains in Iceland.

我在冰岛时，爬了很多山。

And as you come to a new valley,

当你第一次到新的山谷，

as you come to a new landscape, you have a certain view.

看到新的风景，你会有新的看法。

If you stand still, the landscape

如果你站不动，周围的环境

doesn't necessarily tell you how big it is.

也不一定告诉你它是多么的大。

It doesn't really tell you what you're looking at.

它也不会告诉你到底在看什么。

The moment you start to move, the mountain starts to move.

你开始行动的时候，山也开始行动。

The big mountains far away, they move less.

在远处的山，会动得慢一些。

The small mountains in the foreground, they move more.

离你比较近得山，会动得快一些。

And if you stop again, you wonder,

如果你又停下来，你会问自己，

"Is that a one-hour valley?

“是不是要一个小时？

Or is that a three-hour hike, or is that a whole day I'm looking at?"

或者三小时，又或者一天的？”

If you have a waterfall in there,

如果周围有瀑布，

right out there at the horizon; you look at the waterfall

就在地平线上； 你看着那个瀑布，

and you go, "Oh, the water is falling really slowly."

你会说，“哦，瀑布的水流得挺慢。”

And you go, "My god it's really far away and it's a giant waterfall."

然后你说，“我的天啊，那个超级大瀑布还是挺远的。”

If a waterfall is falling faster,

如果瀑布的水流得快一些，

it's a smaller waterfall which is closer by --

那个瀑布大概就是比较小而且比较近的－

because the speed of falling water is pretty constant everywhere.

因为流水的速度在任何地方都差不多是一样的。

And your body somehow knows that.

你的身体也算知道这些。

So this means a waterfall is a way of measuring space.

所以瀑布可以说是测量空间的一种办法。

Of course being an iconic city like New York,

像纽约这种象征性的城市，

that has had an interest in somehow

在改变空间上

playing around with the sense of space, you could say that New York

也十分重要。可以说纽约

wants to seem as big as possible.

看起来很大的。

Adding a measurement

加上一种测量

to that is interesting:

变得更有意思：

the falling water suddenly gives you a sense

那样的流水瀑布会让你想：

of, "Oh, Brooklyn is exactly this much --

“其实布鲁克林就那么大－

the distance between Brooklyn and Manhattan, in this case

布鲁克林和曼哈顿的距离，这么看起来，

the lower East River is this big."

东河流域以下这么大呀。”

So it was not just necessarily about putting nature into the cities.

不仅是绿化城市。

It was also about giving the city a sense of dimension.

同时也带来另一种体验。

And why would we want to do that?

那么，我们为什么要这样做？

Because I think it makes a difference

因为一个处于大空间中的

whether you have a body

身体和

that feels a part of a space,

和一个只站在照片前面的身体，

rather than having a body which is just in front of a picture.

有很大的区别。

And "Ha-ha, there is a picture and here is I. And what does it matter?"

还有：“哈哈，那边是照片，这边是我。 这个有关系吗？”

Is there a sense of consequences?

有没有后果？

So if I have a sense of the space,

如果我感受空间

if I feel that the space is tangible,

如果我觉得空间是可感知的，

if I feel there is time,

如果我感觉的到时间，

if there is a dimension I could call time,

如果我可以将距离称为时间，

I also feel that I can change the space.

我觉的我有能力改变空间。

And suddenly it makes a difference

突然间，

in terms of making space accessible.

感触空间一下子就变得容易了。

One could say this is about

可以说这个

community, collectivity.

跟社区和集体有关。

It's about being together.

是关于生活在一起。

How do we create public space?

我们怎么营造公共空间？

What does the word "public" mean today anyway?

“公共”到底什么意思？

So, asked in that way,

这样提问题，

I think it raises great things about

会引发很多关于

parliamentary ideas, democracy, public space,

议会，民主，公共空间，

being together, being individual.

集体，个体的重要议题。

How do we create

我们怎么能想到

an idea which is both tolerant to individuality,

一个容纳个体

and also to collectivity,

又包含集体的想法，

without polarizing the two

而且不把这两个概念

into two different opposites?

变成相反的对立呢？

Of course the political agendas in the world

当然，世界上的政治议程

has been very obsessed, polarizing the two against each other

尽可能地用不同，更标准化的观点

into different, very normative ideas.

将两者分开。

I would claim that art and culture,

我觉得艺术和文化，

and this is why art and culture are so incredibly interesting

这就是为什么今天的艺术和文化

in the times we're living in now,

那么有意思。

have proven that one can

它们证明了

create a kind of a space

我们能创造出一个融合

which is both sensitive to individuality

个人和集体

and to collectivity.

的空间。

It's very much about this causality, consequences.

关于因果关系和后果。

It's very much about the way we link

关于我们怎么联系

thinking and doing.

想法和做法。

So what is between thinking and doing?

在想和做的过程中还有什么？

And right in-between thinking and doing,

在想和做的中间，

I would say, there is experience.

我想说，肯定有经验。

And experience is not just

经验不仅是

a kind of entertainment in a non-casual way.

一种不计因果的娱乐。

Experience is about responsibility.

也离不开责任。

Having an experience is taking part in the world.

积累经验就是体验生活。

Taking part in the world is really about sharing responsibility.

体验生活其实就意味着担负责任。

So art, in that sense,

所以艺术，在那个层面上，

I think holds an incredible relevance

我觉得，对我们现在的生活

in the world in which we're moving into,

可以说是非常重要的。

particularly right now.

特别是现在。

That's all I have. Thank you very much.

这就是我想说的。非常感谢。

(Applause)

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