Playing with space and light | Olafur Eliasson

譯者: Chih-Yuan Huang 審譯者: Zhu Jie

I have a studio in Berlin --

我在柏林有一個工作室，

let me cue on here --

讓我帶你們由這邊開始，

which is down there in this snow, just last weekend.

就在上個周末，這邊剛下了一場大雪。

In the studio we do a lot of experiments.

在工作室中我們從事了很多的實驗。

I would consider the studio more like a laboratory.

與其說是工作室我更相信它是個實驗室。

I have occasional meetings with scientists.

我在那邊經常與科學家進行例行會議。

And I have an academy, a part of the University of Fine Arts in Berlin.

並且在柏林大學內，我有主持一個學會。

We have an annual gathering of people,

我們每年會把人聚集起來，

and that is called Life in Space.

我們稱它為生命的空間(Life in Space)。

Life in Space is really not necessarily about

生命的空間並不是很著重我們該怎麼做，

how we do things, but why we do things.

我們該怎麼做，而是為甚麼我們要那麼做。

Do you mind looking, with me, at that little cross in the center there?

請和我一同看一看這個在屏幕上十字符號。看到了嗎?

So just keep looking. Don't mind me.

持續看它。不要管我。

So you will have a yellow circle, and we will do an after-image experiment.

然後你會感覺到你看到一個黃色的圓。這就是我們得到的視覺暫留所產生的現象。

When the circle goes away you will have another color, the complementary color.

當圓消失之後你會得到另外的一個顏色，那就是互補色。

I am saying something. And your eyes and your brain are saying something back.

這就是我所說的。你的眼睛與頭腦告訴你它們回來了。

This whole idea of sharing, the idea of constituting reality

這些點子值得我們去分享，這些點子的正是構成是交織在

by overlapping what I say and what you say --

你與我所訴說的。

think of a movie.

想一想這些影像。

Since two years now, with some stipends from the science ministry in Berlin,

從兩年前至今，由柏林大學內的科學部所提供的薪水，

I've been working on these films

我完成了這些

where we produce the film together.

我們共同製作的影片。

I don't necessarily think the film is so interesting.

我不需要這樣去想它是否非常的吸引人。

Obviously this is not interesting at all in the sense of the narrative.

很明顯的在敘述的認知上它並不一定有趣。

But nevertheless, what the potential is --

然而，甚麼是它所代表的背後的的潛力呢，

and just keep looking there --

讓我們繼續往下看。

what the potential is, obviously,

甚麼是這所帶來的潛力，很明顯的，

is to kind of move the border of who is the author,

導演他讓邊界的一種移動的表現，

and who is the receiver.

與讓接收者所收到的。

Who is the consumer, if you want,

誰是欣賞者，假如你需要的話，

and who has responsibility for what one sees?

誰可以為每個來欣賞的人下同樣的定義呢?

I think there is a socializing dimension

我認為這樣的表現承現在我們對於社會觀念的看法之上，

in, kind of, moving that border.

這是一個，移動的邊界。

Who decides what reality is?

誰可以決定事情真象為何?

This is the Tate Modern in London.

這是在倫敦的泰特現代美術館(Tae Modern)。

The show was, in a sense, about that.

那雪在這裡，那個景象，就在那。

It was about a space in which I put half a semi-circular yellow disk.

這就是我剛剛放出的黃色半圓盤狀的圓型在這個空間之中。

I also put a mirror in the ceiling, and some fog, some haze.

我放了一片鏡子在天花板的中間，有些霧，有些模糊。

And my idea was to make the space tangible.

這整個概念，非常明顯的讓空間形成一個實在的感受。

With such a big space, the problem is

在這樣一個大的空間之中，問題是

obviously that there is a discrepancy

怎麼明顯的表現

between what your body can embrace,

讓你的身體感受它的差異性，

and what the space, in that sense, is.

在直覺之下用幾分熱情來擁抱這個空間。

So here I had the hope that by inserting some natural elements,

如果你想要所以在這我希望能借由一些個大自然的元素，

if you want -- some fog -- I could make the space tangible.

一些微霧，我可以打造出你對空間的感受。

And what happens is that people, they start to see themselves in this space.

那麼這些人發生了甚麼事呢，他們開始在這空間中看到自己身在其中。

So look at this. Look at the girl.

所以看看這些。看這個女孩。

Of course they have to look through a bloody camera

當然她們在博物館內透過這些血腥的鏡頭看到這些。

in a museum. Right? That's how museums are working today.

是嗎? 這些就是我們今日博物館的功能。

But look at her face there,

但是看看她的臉，

as she's checking out, looking at herself in the mirror.

就像她檢查的一樣，透過鏡子觀看她自己。

"Oh! That was my foot there!"

Oh!這是我的那一雙腳。

She wasn't really sure whether she was seeing herself or not.

她不確定她所看到的那雙腳是否為她的。

And in that whole idea,

所以我猜想，

how do we configure the relationship between our body and the space?

這整個點子是如何聯繫著我們的身體與空間的關係呢?

How do we reconfigure it?

我們如何重新配置它們呢?

How do we know that being in a space makes a difference?

我們如何認知在空間中所造成的這些個差異呢?

Do you see when I said in the beginning, it's about

你看到我在一開始所用的言語的，

why, rather than how?

我用為甚麼那麼做，來取代如何做嗎?

The why meant really,

為甚麼那麼做表示了實際的問題，

"What consequences does it have when I take a step?"

”當我決定下一步時會帶來甚麼樣的結果呢?”

"What does it matter?"

”事情會怎麼樣呢?”

"Does it matter if I am in the world or not?"

”假如我在這世界之中的與否是否會帶來事情不同的變化呢?”

"And does it matter whether the kind of actions I take

”當我帶著負責任的想法去

filter into a sense of responsibility?"

過濾每一件我所採取的行動時，這些事情會變的如何呢?”

Is art about that?

藝術是包括這些事嗎?

I would say yes. It is obviously about

我會跟你說是的。這是非常明確地

not just about decorating the world, and making it look even better,

關於我們如何裝飾這世界，乃至於讓它看起來更加的美好。

or even worse, if you ask me.

或者讓這世界變的更差，假如您問我的話。

It's obviously also about taking responsibility,

它是那麼樣的顯而易見的，就像我需要負起我所做的事情的責任一般，

like I did here when throwing some green dye in the river

我曾在河流之中投下綠色的染料

in L.A., Stockholm, Norway and Tokyo,

像是洛杉磯、斯德哥爾摩、挪威與東京

among other places.

等諸多地方。

The green dye is not environmentally dangerous,

這些綠色的染料並不會對我們的環境帶來任何的負擔，

but it obviously looks really rather frightening.

但那件事的確引起相當大的驚恐。

And it's on the other side also, I think, quite beautiful,

在某一方面是這樣的，但在另一方面來看，我認為它是件美麗的事情。

as it somehow shows the turbulence in these kind of downtown areas,

這些綠色的染料總是會在世界上不同的城市之中

in these different places of the world.

製造出豐富的喧囂。

The "Green river," as a kind of activist idea, not a part of an exhibition,

綠色的河流，像是活動的份子，不只是展覽的某一部份而已，

it was really about showing people,

這個點子真正圍繞著是人們、

in this city, as they walk by,

城市，在城市之中的人們走過，

that space has dimensions. A space has time.

經過這些空間而建構出來的氛圍。空間之中呈現出時間的概念。

And the water flows through the city with time.

而城市中的水流跟著時間一同流動著。

The water has an ability to make

水具有能力來

the city negotiable, tangible.

讓城市變的可觸摸並且可探討的。

Negotiable meaning that it makes a difference

所謂可探討的意思是不管您做了些甚麼

whether you do something or not.

是與否都會造成這城市的不同。

It makes a difference whether you say, "I'm a part of this city.

它就會造成不同不管你是否這樣說 : “我是這城市之中的一份子。

And if I vote it makes a difference.

假如我投下那一份足以改變的行為

If I take a stand, it makes a difference."

假如我表明態度，它一定會變的不一樣的。”

This whole idea of a city not being a picture is,

這整個城市的概念不只是個圖像，

I think, something that art, in a sense,

我認為它關乎於藝術、觀感，

always was working with.

這事總是這樣進行的。

The idea that art can actually evaluate the relationship

這整個概念是藝術能真正評估圖像它的關聯性

between what it means to be in a picture,

與所代表的意義究竟是甚麼，

and what it means to be in a space. What is the difference?

它在空間中又象徵著甚麼?這些有甚麼不同?

The difference between thinking and doing.

它的差別是關於所認知的與所作為的不同。

So these are different experiments with that. I won't go into them.

所以這些不同的試驗代表了這意義。在這我不多說。

Iceland, lower right corner, my favorite place.

在右下角是我最喜愛的地方冰島。

These kinds of experiments, they filter into architectural models.

透過這些類型的試驗，他們篩選出建築的模型。

These are ongoing experiments.

這是正在進行中的實驗。

One is an experiment I did for BMW,

另一個試驗是我正在為BMW所從事的，

an attempt to make a car.

試著套用於汽車的設計之上。

It's made out of ice.

它由冰製成。

A crystalline stackable principle in the center on the top,

透過水晶結晶在頂部所堆疊成的原則，

which I am trying to turn into a concert hall in Iceland.

我正試著替冰島的音樂中心變的不同。

A sort of a run track, or a walk track,

在丹麥的博物館頂層，

on the top of a museum in Denmark,

散佈著一些運行或步行的通道。

which is made of colored glass, going all around.

那些是由透明與彩色的玻璃依著四周而呈現的。

So the movement with your legs

所以當您在這裡走動時會感受到

will change the color of your horizon.

腳上的顏色會隨之改變。

And two summers ago at the Hyde Park in London,

在去年夏天，在倫敦的海德公園(Hyde Park)

with the Serpentine Gallery:

內的蛇型(Serpentine)畫廊內。

a kind of a temporal pavilion where

透過時間的移動

moving was the only way you could see the pavilion.

是唯一一種方式使您可以看到短暫出現的亭子。

This summer, in New York:

在紐約今年夏天。

there is one thing about falling water which is very much about

有一個概念設計是關於

the time it takes for water to fall.

透過水向下流動而讓人感受時間的流逝。

It's quite simple and fundamental.

它是那樣的簡單設計與基礎。

I've walked a lot in the mountains in Iceland.

我曾經走訪過很多位於冰島上的山脈。

And as you come to a new valley,

當您到了一個新的村莊，

as you come to a new landscape, you have a certain view.

您會像是看到了一個新的風景般的，看到了嶄新的景色。

If you stand still, the landscape

當您持續身在這片美好的風景之中

doesn't necessarily tell you how big it is.

就會像是不需述說而感到廣大的美好。

It doesn't really tell you what you're looking at.

就像是不經語言述說但您身在其中。

The moment you start to move, the mountain starts to move.

當您開始移動而山也開始相對移動。

The big mountains far away, they move less.

較大的山它們相對移動較慢，

The small mountains in the foreground, they move more.

眼前那小座的山相對後面的大山移動的更快。

And if you stop again, you wonder,

假如您停了下來並開始思考

"Is that a one-hour valley?

”這是一個小時的山谷行，

Or is that a three-hour hike, or is that a whole day I'm looking at?"

或者是個三個小時的健行，還是將要花上一個整天來經過我所見的地方?“

If you have a waterfall in there,

假如您看到有瀑布，

right out there at the horizon; you look at the waterfall

而它正在地平線的那方，你看到了

and you go, "Oh, the water is falling really slowly."

並且往前走，”看阿那水流下是如此的緩慢”

And you go, "My god it's really far away and it's a giant waterfall."

您繼續往前走，”我的老天阿它是如此的遙遠，它真的是個大瀑布”。

If a waterfall is falling faster,

假如這瀑布是小的

it's a smaller waterfall which is closer by --

那麼當您看到這瀑布落下的水流將是快速的。

because the speed of falling water is pretty constant everywhere.

因為所有地方的水落下的速度都是一樣的。

And your body somehow knows that.

而您的身體總是會以直覺的告訴您。

So this means a waterfall is a way of measuring space.

所以這意味著水落下的方試將可讓您量測時空。

Of course being an iconic city like New York,

當然作為一個象徵性的城市紐約，

that has had an interest in somehow

它重要的扮演了

playing around with the sense of space, you could say that New York

與周圍空間相對角色，您可能這樣說，紐約它

wants to seem as big as possible.

似乎想要盡可能凸出。

Adding a measurement

計算著所量測到

to that is interesting:

水落下的概念

the falling water suddenly gives you a sense

可能使您忽然有所心得

of, "Oh, Brooklyn is exactly this much --

“ Oh，布魯克林(Brooklyn)是多麼的大，

the distance between Brooklyn and Manhattan, in this case

從布魯克林到曼哈頓的距離是個明顯的例子，

the lower East River is this big."

這東邊流域下游是如此之大。”

So it was not just necessarily about putting nature into the cities.

所以它並不只是給予城市自然應有的概念。

It was also about giving the city a sense of dimension.

也給城市帶來維度的概念。

And why would we want to do that?

那麼為甚麼我們要那麼做?

Because I think it makes a difference

因為我認為這所造成的差異不只是

whether you have a body

您自身

that feels a part of a space,

在這座城市的圖像之中，

rather than having a body which is just in front of a picture.

而是讓您感受到您是切身的於這城市的空間之中。

And "Ha-ha, there is a picture and here is I. And what does it matter?"

就像”呵呵，這裡有一張圖片而我在裡面。這代表甚麼意義?

Is there a sense of consequences?

是否有甚麼重大的意味嗎?

So if I have a sense of the space,

假如我有空間的概念，

if I feel that the space is tangible,

假使我可以感受到空間是可明確的，

if I feel there is time,

假如我感受到這裡的時間，

if there is a dimension I could call time,

假使這有我可以稱做時間的維度概念，

I also feel that I can change the space.

我就可以覺知到我可以改變這裡空間。

And suddenly it makes a difference

並且它會忽然做出不同的決定

in terms of making space accessible.

使得空間的概念便的可以理解。

One could say this is about

也許其中之一可以說是關於

community, collectivity.

我們的社會、團體。

It's about being together.

這是關於共同的概念。

How do we create public space?

為甚麼我們創造公共空間(public space)?

What does the word "public" mean today anyway?

甚麼是”公共(public)”這字在現今的意義?

So, asked in that way,

我在這邊提問，

I think it raises great things about

我認為這與人們提起的

parliamentary ideas, democracy, public space,

議會式(parlementric)概念、民主式、公共空間，

being together, being individual.

是獨立而又共同的。

How do we create

我們應該如何創造

an idea which is both tolerant to individuality,

這想法是具有寬容性的獨立個體，

and also to collectivity,

而又具集體性的，

without polarizing the two

，而不會分化成極端的

into two different opposites?

兩個對立面?

Of course the political agendas in the world

當然在政治用語上議程

has been very obsessed, polarizing the two against each other

這字給人困擾並將兩件事情盡可能的

into different, very normative ideas.

區分，用一種非常標準化的方式來說明。

I would claim that art and culture,

我要特別提出在藝術或文化上來說，

and this is why art and culture are so incredibly interesting

為甚麼藝術與文化對於我們

in the times we're living in now,

所居住時空之下它是那麼令人感興趣的，

have proven that one can

因為它證明其中之一可以

create a kind of a space

可以在生存的空間之中

which is both sensitive to individuality

製造一種具有兩個面相 – 具獨立性

and to collectivity.

與具集體性的空間。

It's very much about this causality, consequences.

它是富有相當影響性的並且互為因果。

It's very much about the way we link

它也是呈現我們如何連結

thinking and doing.

思考與行動的。

So what is between thinking and doing?

所以甚麼是藉於我們思考與行動之間的橋樑呢?

And right in-between thinking and doing,

對於我們的思考與行動，

I would say, there is experience.

我可以這樣說，是取決於我們的經驗。

And experience is not just

經驗告訴我們的並不只是

a kind of entertainment in a non-casual way.

一種不互為因果方式的娛樂。

Experience is about responsibility.

經驗是關乎責任的表現。

Having an experience is taking part in the world.

經驗是取決於我們參與這世界的一部份。

Taking part in the world is really about sharing responsibility.

參與這世界的我們是有關我們如何分享彼此的責任。

So art, in that sense,

所以藝術，在這概念之下，

I think holds an incredible relevance

我認為是決定在我們想要

in the world in which we're moving into,

讓這世界變得如何的一種令人難以置信關鍵。

particularly right now.

特別是當下。

That's all I have. Thank you very much.

這是我所有可分享的一切。非常感謝您們。

(Applause)

(鼓掌)