How young people join violent extremist groups -- and how to stop them | Erin Marie Saltman

翻译人员: Jessica Chen 校对人员: Jiawei Ni

So in 2011, I altered my name

在2011年，我为了参加

so that I could participate in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.

在匈牙利的极右青年营而改了名字。

I was doing a PhD looking at youth political socialization --

我当时正在做一个 青年政治社交的博士研究——

why young people were developing political ideologies

为什么年轻人正在 后共产主义的环境下

in a post-communist setting,

发展出政治思想体系。

and I saw that a lot of young people I was talking to

然后我看到许多 同我谈话的年轻人

were joining the Far Right,

在加入极右营，

and this was astounding to me.

而这使我感到很震惊。

So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp

所以我想要参与这个青年营

to get a better understanding of why people were joining.

来更好地理解 人们为什么加入它。

So a colleague enrolled me,

一个同事帮我注册了，

and my last name sounds a little bit too Jewish.

而我的姓听起来有点太像犹太人。

So Erin got turned into Iréna,

也就是艾琳被改成了艾伦娜，

and Saltman got turned into Sós,

而萨特曼被改成了梭斯，

which means "salty" in Hungarian.

也就是匈牙利语中的“咸”的意思。

And in Hungarian, your last name goes first,

而在匈牙利语中，你的姓在前面

so my James Bond name turned into "Salty Irena,"

所以我的代号变成了 “咸咸的艾伦娜”，

which is not something I would have naturally chosen for myself.

这是我不会自然而然 选给自己的名字。

But going to this camp,

但是参加这个营的时候，

I was further shocked to realize that it was actually really fun.

我更震惊地意识到 它其实真的挺有趣的。

They talked very little about politics.

他们很少谈论政治，

It was mostly learning how to ride horses,

大部分时间是学习骑马，

shooting a bow and arrow,

射箭，

live music at night,

晚上演奏音乐，

free food and alcohol,

有免费的食物和酒精饮料，

also some air-gun target practice

以及一些气枪打靶练习，

using mainstream politicians' faces as targets.

用主流政治家的脸当靶子。

And this seemed like a very, actually, friendly, inclusive group

而这看上去像一个非常 友好的、包容的团体，

until you started talking or mentioning anything to do with the Roma population,

直到你开始谈到或提起 任何有关罗马尼亚人、

Jewish people or immigrants,

犹太人、或是移民的话题，

and then the discourse would become very hate-based very quickly.

然后谈话就会很快变得充满仇恨。

So it led me into my work now,

于是这就引导我开始了现在的工作，

where we pose the question,

也就是提出这个问题，

"Why do people join violent extremist movements,

“人们为什么加入暴力的极端运动，

and how do we effectively counter these processes?"

而我们怎么去有效地反击这个过程？“

In the aftermath of horrible atrocities and attacks

比利时、法国等地区 还在骇人听闻的

in places like Belgium, France, but all over the world,

暴行和袭击的余悸中， 但是在世界各地

sometimes it's easier for us to think,

有时候我们更容易认为

"Well, these must be sociopaths,

“这些肯定是反社会人物，

these must be naturally violent individuals.

这些肯定是天生暴力的人。

They must have something wrong with their upbringing."

他们从小接受的教育肯定有问题。“

And what's really tragic

真正的让人惋惜的是，

is that oftentimes there's no one profile.

很多时候它没有一个绝对的答案。

Many people come from educated backgrounds,

很多人都受过教育，

different socioeconomic backgrounds,

有着不同的社会经济背景，

men and women, different ages,

不同年龄的男人和女人，

some with families, some single.

有些有家庭，有些单身。

So why? What is this allure?

为什么要这么做？ 他们受了什么诱惑？

And this is what I want to talk you through,

而这就是我想要和你们讨论的，

as well as how do we challenge this in a modern era?

以及我们怎样在现代挑战这件事。

We do know, through research,

我们通过研究知道，

that there are quite a number of different things

有很多不同的东西

that affect somebody's process of radicalization,

影响着一个人变得激进的过程，

and we categorize these into push and pull factors.

而我们把这些分类为 推动和拉回因素。

And these are pretty much similar for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups

这些因素在极右、新纳粹团体，甚至是

all the way to Islamist extremist and terrorist groups.

穆斯林极端和 恐怖团体中都差不多。

And push factors are basically what makes you vulnerable

而推动因素让你更容易

to a process of radicalization,

受激进过程的影响，

to joining a violent extremist group.

更容易去加入 一个暴力的极端团体

And these can be a lot of different things,

而这些可以是很多不同的事情，

but roughly, a sense of alienation, a sense of isolation,

但粗略来说就是，疏远感，孤立感，

questioning your own identity,

质疑你自己的身份

but also feeling that your in-group is under attack,

但同时感到你所属的群体 正在受到攻击，

and your in group might be based on a nationality or an ethnicity

而你的群体可能基于 一个国籍或是一个种族

or a religion,

或是一个宗教，

and feeling that larger powers around you are doing nothing to help.

以及感到你周围更大的权力 没有提供任何帮助。

Now, push factors alone do not make you a violent extremist,

仅仅是推动因素不会把你 变成一个暴力的极端主义者，

because if that were the fact,

因为如果那是事实，

those same factors would go towards a group like the Roma population,

那些相同的因素也应该适用于 像是罗马尼亚人的群体，

and they're not a violently mobilized group.

而他们并不是一个暴力群体。

So we have to look at the pull factors.

那么我们需要看一下拉回因素。

What are these violent extremist organizations offering

这些暴力的极端组织提供了什么

that other groups are not offering?

别的团体没有提供的呢？

And actually, this is usually very positive things,

通常是非常积极的东西，

very seemingly empowering things,

看上去非常能赋予权力的东西，

such as brotherhood and sisterhood

像是兄弟情谊和姐妹情谊

and a sense of belonging,

一种归属感，

as well as giving somebody a spiritual purpose,

以及给人一个精神目标，

a divine purpose to build a utopian society

一个神圣的目标来 建造一个乌托邦社会，

if their goals can be met,

如果他们的目标可以被实现的话，

but also a sense of empowerment and adventure.

但还有一种自主感和冒险感。

When we look at foreign terrorist fighters,

当我们想到国外恐怖主义的斗争者时，

we see young men with the wind in their hair

我们看到了沙漠中 匆匆赶路的年轻人，

out in the desert and women going to join them

而女人走过去加入他们，

to have nuptials out in the sunset.

然后在夕阳中举行婚礼。

It's very romantic, and you become a hero.

这很浪漫，而你会变成一个英雄，

For both men and women, that's the propaganda being given.

对男人和女人来说 这就是他们被许诺的东西。

So what extremist groups are very good at

极端团体非常善于

is taking a very complicated, confusing, nuanced world

把一个非常复杂、 令人困惑且琐碎的世界

and simplifying that world into black and white,

简化为一个只有黑和白，

good and evil.

好和坏的世界。

And you become what is good,

而你成为了好的，

challenging what is evil.

挑战着坏的事物。

So I want to talk a little bit about ISIS, Daesh,

那么我想稍微谈一谈伊斯兰国，

because they have been a game changer in how we look at these processes,

因为他们通过许多宣传材料和策略

and through a lot of the material and their tactics.

改变了我们是怎样看待这些过程的。

They're very much a modern movement.

他们几乎相当于一个现代运动。

One of the aspects is the internet and the usage of social media,

其中一个方面就是 网络和社交媒体的使用，

as we've all seen in headlines tweeting and videos of beheadings.

因为我们都在推特头条 和砍头视频里见过。

But the internet alone does not radicalize you.

但是单纯使用网络不会使你变得激进。

The internet is a tool.

网络是一个工具，

You don't go online shopping for shoes

你不会上网买鞋子，

and accidentally become a jihadist.

然后突然变成了一个伊斯兰圣徒。

However, what the Internet does do is it is a catalyst.

然而，网络的作用是催化剂。

It provides tools and scale and rapidity

它提供其它地方不存在的

that doesn't exist elsewhere.

工具，规模和速度。

And with ISIS, all of a sudden,

而对于伊斯兰国，突然之间

this idea of a cloaked, dark figure of a jihadist changed for us.

这个披着斗篷、黑暗的圣徒形象 突然为我们改变了。

All of a sudden, we were in their kitchens.

突然之间，我们在他们的厨房里，

We saw what they were eating for dinner.

看到了他们晚饭吃什么。

They were tweeting.

他们在发微博。

We had foreign terrorist fighters tweeting in their own languages.

我们看到外国的恐怖分子 用他们自己的语言发微博。

We had women going out there talking about their wedding day,

我们看到女人们公开谈论她们的婚礼，

about the births of their children.

她们孩子的出生。

We had gaming culture, all of a sudden,

我们有突然间有了游戏文化，

and references to Grand Theft Auto being made.

然还提到了侠盗飞车。

So all of a sudden, they were homey.

突然之间，他们变得普通了。

They became human.

他们变成了人类。

And the problem is that trying to counter it,

而问题是，为了应对这种情况，

lots of governments and social media companies

许多政府和社交媒体公司

just tried to censor.

都试图进行审查。

How do we get rid of terrorist content?

我们怎样去掉恐怖主义内容？

And it became a cat-and-mouse game

然后它变成了一个猫捉老鼠的游戏，

where we would see accounts taken down and they'd just come back up,

我们会看到账号被封杀， 然后它们只卷土重来，

and an arrogance around somebody having a 25th account

有着第25个账号的人的傲慢

and material that was disseminated everywhere.

以及被散播到各处的资料。

But we also saw a dangerous trend --

但是我们也看到了 一个危险的趋势——

violent extremists know the rules and regulations of social media, too.

暴力的极端主义者 也知道社交媒体的规则和管理方法。

So we would see a banal conversation with a recruiter

所以我们会看到一个平淡的招募对话

start on a mainstream platform,

在一个主流平台上开始，

and at the point at which that conversation

而当那个对话

was going to become illegal,

就要变得违法时，

they would jump to a smaller, less regulated,

他们会跳到一个 更小的，更疏于管理的

more encrypted platform.

加密的平台。

So all of a sudden, we couldn't track where that conversation went.

所以突然之间，我们跟踪不到 那个对话去了哪里。

So this is a problem with censorship,

那么这是审查制度的一个问题，

which is why we need to develop alternatives to censorship.

也就是为什么我们需要 开发审查制度的替代品。

ISIS is also a game-changer because it's state-building.

伊斯兰国也是一个游戏改变者， 因为它建造了一个国家。

It's not just recruiting combatants;

它不只是招募战斗者，

it's trying to build a state.

它还试着建造一个国家。

And what that means is all of a sudden,

而这意味着突然之间，

your recruitment model is much more broad.

你的招募模式变得更加宽泛了。

You're not just trying to get fighters --

你不仅仅试着找斗士——

now you need architects, engineers, accountants, hackers and women.

现在你需要建筑师、工程师、 会计、黑客、和女人。

We've actually seen a huge increase of women going

我们其实已经看到了 在过去的24，尤其是12个月里，

in the last 24, but especially 12 months.

加入他们的女性数量急剧增加。

Some countries, one in four of the people going over to join

有些国家里，目前4个加入的人中

are now women.

就有1个是女性。

And so, this really changes

这从本质上改变了

who we're trying to counter this process with.

和我们一起试着反抗这个过程的人。

Now, not all doom and gloom.

但是，还有希望。

So the rest I'd like to talk about some of the positive things

那么接下来我想 谈一些积极的事情，

and the new innovation in trying to prevent and counter violent extremism.

以及试着预防并反击 暴力的极端主义的新方法。

Preventing is very different than countering,

预防和反击很不一样，

and actually, you can think of it in medical terms.

而事实上，你可以用 医学概念来思考它。

So preventative medicine is,

那么预防性药物就是

how do we make it so you are naturally resilient

我们怎么利用它来让你对这个激进过程

to this process of radicalization,

存在天然的抵抗力。

whereas that is going to be different

然而如果某些人已然表现出了

if somebody is already showing a symptom or a sign

属于一个暴力的极端主义意识形态，

of belonging to a violent extremist ideology.

情况就不同了。

And so in preventative measures,

所以在预防性方法中，

we're talking more about really broad groups of people

我们讨论的更多是很宽泛的群体，

and exposure to ideas

让他们了解各种不同的意识形态，

to make them resilient.

让他们对形成抵抗力。

Whereas it's very different

然而如果某些人

if somebody is starting to question and agree with certain things online,

已经开始提问并同意网上的 某些观点，情况就不同了。

and it's also very different if somebody already has a swastika tattoo

如果某些人已经有了一个万字纹身， 而且在一个群体中根深蒂固，

and is very much embedded within a group.

情况也变得不一样了。

How do you reach them?

你怎么触动他们呢？

So I'd like to go through three examples of each one of those levels

那么我想要解读一下 关于这每一个阶段的三个例子，

and talk you through

并且和你们谈论

what some of the new ways of engaging with people are becoming.

一些新的鼓励人们参与的方法。

One is "Extreme Dialogue,"

其一就是“极端对话”，

and it's an educational program that we helped develop.

这是一个我们参与发展的教育项目。

This one is from Canada,

这个项目来自加拿大，

and it's meant to create dialogues within a classroom setting,

目的是在一个教室环境中通过讲故事

using storytelling,

创造对话。

because violent extremism can be very hard to try to explain,

因为暴力的极端主义 可以是非常难以解释的，

especially to younger individuals.

尤其是对于年轻人来说。

So we have a network of former extremists and survivors of extremism

我们有一个前极端主义者 和极端主义下的幸存者的关系网，

that tell their stories through video and create question-giving to classrooms,

他们通过视频和设计教室提问 来讲述自己的故事，

to start a conversation about the topic.

来开始一个有关这个话题的谈话。

These two examples show Christianne,

这两个例子影响了克里斯蒂安，

who lost her son,

她失去了她的儿子，

who radicalized and died fighting for ISIS,

他变得激进，并为伊斯兰国战斗至死。

and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi

还有丹尼尔，一个前新纳粹份子，

who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi,

他曾是一个极度暴力的新纳粹。

and they pose questions about their lives and where they're at and regret,

而他们对于自己的生活和处境 提出了问题并感到了后悔，

and force a classroom to have a dialogue around it.

而且强制一个教室来对此展开对话。

Now, looking at that middle range of individuals,

看到了个人的一段人生，

actually, we need a lot of civil society voices.

事实上，我们感到需要 很多公民的社会声音。

How do you interact with people that are looking for information online,

怎么去和正在网上搜索信息，

that are starting to toy with an ideology,

玩弄意识形态，

that are doing those searching identity questions?

搜索着身份认同问题的人沟通呢？

How do we provide alternatives for that?

我们怎么为那些人提供替代内容呢？

And that's when we combine large groups of civil society voices

而这时我们就把 大群的公民社会声音

with creatives, techies, app developers, artists, comedians,

同创新者、技术人员， 应用程序开发者、艺术家、戏剧家相结合，

and we can create really specified content

而且我们可以创造非常详细的内容，

and actually, online, disseminate it to very strategic audiences.

而且可以在网上 散布给有战略眼光的观众。

So one example would be creating a satirical video

一个例子是录制一个讽刺视频，

which makes fun of Islamophobia,

其内容是嘲笑伊斯兰恐惧症，

and targeting it to 15- to 20-year-olds online

然后把目标群体瞄准15-20岁，

that have an interest in white power music

对白人至上音乐有兴趣

and live specifically in Manchester.

生活在曼切斯特的在线用户。

We can use these marketing tools to be very specific,

我们可以通过这些营销工具 做到非常有针对性，

so that we know when somebody's viewing, watching

这样一来我们知道什么时候 有人在浏览、播放

and engaging with that content,

并参与内容互动。

it's not just the average person, it's not me or you --

我指的不是普通大众， 这不是我或者你——

it's a very specific audience that we are looking to engage with.

而是一个很特殊的， 我们想要针对的一个群体。

Even more downstream, we developed a pilot program called "One to One,"

在项目的下游，我们还开发了 一个叫做“一对一”的试验方案。

where we took former extremists

我们让前极端主义者

and we had them reach out directly to a group of labeled neofascists

直接和一组标记过的新纳粹 还有伊斯兰教极端主义者

as well as Islamist extremists,

进行交流，

and put direct messages through Facebook Messenger into their inbox, saying,

并且直接把信息通过Facebook的 聊天工具发到他们的收件箱里，说，

"Hey, I see where you're going. I've been there.

“嘿，我看到你在做什么了。 我曾经也是那样，

If you want to talk, I'm here."

如果你想谈一谈的话，随时找我。”

Now, we kind of expected death threats from this sort of interaction.

我们预计到这种沟通会带来死亡威胁。

It's a little alarming to have a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"

一个前新纳粹份子跟你打招呼 是有些令人惊慌的。

But actually, we found that around 60 percent

但事实上，我们发现大约60%

of the people reached out to responded,

被接触的人回复了，

and of that, around another 60 percent had sustained engagement,

而其中又有大约60% 有持续性的参与，

meaning that they were having conversations

意味着他们在和最难以接触的人

with the hardest people to reach about what they were going through,

谈论他们正在经历的事情，

种下怀疑的种子，

planting seeds of doubt

and giving them alternatives for talking about these subjects,

并提供给他们替代话题，

and that's really important.

那真的很重要。

So what we're trying to do

我们在尝试

is actually bring unlikely sectors to the table.

开诚布公的谈论意想不到的部分。

We have amazing activists all over the world,

我们有世界各地优秀的活动家，

but oftentimes, their messages are not strategic

但很多时候， 他们的消息不是策略性的，

or they don't actually reach the audiences they want to reach.

或者他们并不能真正接触 他们想接触的人群。

So we work with networks of former extremists.

所以我们与前极端分子的关系网合作，

We work with networks of young people in different parts of the world.

我们与世界各地的年轻人关系网合作。

And we work with them to bring the tech sector to the table

我们与艺术家、创意人士和营销专家

with artists and creatives and marketing expertise

一起谈论技术部分的问题，

so that we can actually have a more robust and challenging of extremism

这样我们就能共同应对 更强大、更具挑战性的

that works together.

极端主义。

So I would say that if you are in the audience

我认为如果你在观众席中，

and you happen to be a graphic designer,

而且你恰巧是一名平面设计师，

a poet, a marketing expert,

或者诗人，市场专家，

somebody that works in PR,

公关人员，

a comedian --

喜剧演员——

you might not think that this is your sector,

你可能不觉得这是你的领域，

but actually, the skills that you have right now

但事实上，你现在所有的技巧

might be exactly what is needed

可能恰恰是我们需要用来

to help challenge extremism effectively.

有效的对抗极端主义的。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）