How young people join violent extremist groups -- and how to stop them | Erin Marie Saltman

Prevoditelj: Marija Kostović Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

So in 2011, I altered my name

2011. godine promijenila sam ime

so that I could participate in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.

da bih se pridružila desničarskom kampu mladih u Mađarskoj.

I was doing a PhD looking at youth political socialization --

Radila sam na doktoratu o političkoj socijalizaciji mladih...

why young people were developing political ideologies

zašto mladi razvijaju političke ideologije

in a post-communist setting,

u postkomunističkom okruženju,

and I saw that a lot of young people I was talking to

i shvatila sam da se mnogi mladi s kojima sam razgovarala

were joining the Far Right,

pridružuju radikalnoj desnici,

and this was astounding to me.

što me zaprepastilo.

So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp

Stoga sam se htjela uključiti u kamp

to get a better understanding of why people were joining.

kako bih razumjela zašto.

So a colleague enrolled me,

Prijavila me kolegica,

and my last name sounds a little bit too Jewish.

a moje prezime zvuči previše židovski.

So Erin got turned into Iréna,

Tako je Erin postala Iréna,

and Saltman got turned into Sós,

a Saltman Sós,

which means "salty" in Hungarian.

što znači "slano" na mađarskom.

And in Hungarian, your last name goes first,

Na mađarskom se prezime stavlja na prvo mjesto,

so my James Bond name turned into "Salty Irena,"

tako da je moje ime u stilu Jamesa Bonda postalo "Slana Irena",

which is not something I would have naturally chosen for myself.

što ne bih sama izabrala za sebe.

But going to this camp,

Kada sam došla u kamp,

I was further shocked to realize that it was actually really fun.

dodatno me šokiralo to što je zapravo bilo jako zabavno.

They talked very little about politics.

Vrlo se malo razgovaralo o politici.

It was mostly learning how to ride horses,

Uglavnom se učilo jahanje,

shooting a bow and arrow,

streličarstvo,

live music at night,

bilo je žive glazbe navečer,

free food and alcohol,

besplatne hrane i alkohola,

also some air-gun target practice

pa učenje rukovanja zračnim pištoljem

using mainstream politicians' faces as targets.

s licima poznatih političara kao metama.

And this seemed like a very, actually, friendly, inclusive group

I ljudi su bili jako ljubazni i tolerantni

until you started talking or mentioning anything to do with the Roma population,

sve dok ne spomeneš Rome,

Jewish people or immigrants,

Židove ili imigrante,

and then the discourse would become very hate-based very quickly.

tu bi razgovor vrlo brzo skrenuo u smjeru mržnje.

So it led me into my work now,

To me dovelo do današnjeg rada,

where we pose the question,

u kojem postavljamo pitanje:

"Why do people join violent extremist movements,

"Zašto se ljudi pridružuju nasilnim ekstremističkim pokretima,

and how do we effectively counter these processes?"

i kako da učinkovito suzbijemo te procese?"

In the aftermath of horrible atrocities and attacks

Nakon svih strahota i napada

in places like Belgium, France, but all over the world,

u Belgiji, Francuskoj i ostatku svijeta,

sometimes it's easier for us to think,

ponekad nam je lakše razmišljati:

"Well, these must be sociopaths,

"To su zasigurno sociopati,

these must be naturally violent individuals.

to su prirodno nasilni pojedinci.

They must have something wrong with their upbringing."

Nešto nije bilo u redu s njihovim odgojem."

And what's really tragic

A što je zaista tragično,

is that oftentimes there's no one profile.

često se ne radi o jednom profilu ljudi.

Many people come from educated backgrounds,

Mnogi dolaze iz obrazovanih sredina,

different socioeconomic backgrounds,

različitih društvenih i ekonomskih sredina,

men and women, different ages,

muškarci i žene, različitih dobi,

some with families, some single.

jedni iz obitelji, drugi samci.

So why? What is this allure?

Onda zašto? U čemu je čar?

And this is what I want to talk you through,

I to je ono o čemu želim govoriti,

as well as how do we challenge this in a modern era?

kao i o tome što možemo učiniti da se tome danas suprotstavimo.

We do know, through research,

Istraživanja nam pokazuju

that there are quite a number of different things

da postoji cijeli niz čimbenika

that affect somebody's process of radicalization,

koji utječu na radikalizaciju osobe,

and we categorize these into push and pull factors.

a koje kategoriziramo kao čimbenike poticanja i privlačenja.

And these are pretty much similar for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups

I oni su otprilike isti kod radikalno desnih, neonacista

all the way to Islamist extremist and terrorist groups.

pa sve do islamskih ekstremističkih i terorističkih skupina.

And push factors are basically what makes you vulnerable

Čimbenici poticanja čine vas osjetljivima

to a process of radicalization,

na postupak radikalizacije,

to joining a violent extremist group.

pridruživanje ekstremističkim skupinama.

And these can be a lot of different things,

A to mogu biti različite stvari,

but roughly, a sense of alienation, a sense of isolation,

ali uglavnom se svode na osjećaj otuđivanja, izolacije,

questioning your own identity,

propitivanje vlastitog identiteta,

but also feeling that your in-group is under attack,

ali i osjećaj da je tvoja grupa napadnuta,

and your in group might be based on a nationality or an ethnicity

a ta grupa može biti vezana uz nacionalnost ili etnicitet

or a religion,

ili vjeru,

and feeling that larger powers around you are doing nothing to help.

te osjećaj da više sile koje te okružuju ne čine ništa da bi pomogle.

Now, push factors alone do not make you a violent extremist,

Sami čimbenici poticanja ne čine osobu nasilnim ekstremistom

because if that were the fact,

jer da je tomu tako,

those same factors would go towards a group like the Roma population,

jednaki čimbenici odnosili bi se na romsku populaciju,

and they're not a violently mobilized group.

a oni nisu nasilno mobilizirana skupina.

So we have to look at the pull factors.

Stoga treba pogledati čimbenike privlačenja.

What are these violent extremist organizations offering

Što te nasilne ekstremističke organizacije nude,

that other groups are not offering?

a da ostale skupine ne nude?

And actually, this is usually very positive things,

I zapravo se obično radi o pozitivnim stvarima,

very seemingly empowering things,

naizgled osnažujućim stvarima,

such as brotherhood and sisterhood

kao što su bratstva i sestrinstva

and a sense of belonging,

i osjećaj pripadnosti,

as well as giving somebody a spiritual purpose,

kao i pružanje duhovnog smisla,

a divine purpose to build a utopian society

božanskog nauma da se izgradi utopijsko društvo

if their goals can be met,

ako se njihovi ciljevi ispune,

but also a sense of empowerment and adventure.

ali i osjećaj osnaživanja i pustolovine.

When we look at foreign terrorist fighters,

Kada pogledamo strane teroriste,

we see young men with the wind in their hair

vidimo mladiće s vjetrom u kosi

out in the desert and women going to join them

u pustinji kojima prilaze žene

to have nuptials out in the sunset.

kako bi izrekli bračne zavjete uz zalazak sunca.

It's very romantic, and you become a hero.

To je jako romantično i postajete junak.

For both men and women, that's the propaganda being given.

I muškarcima i ženama nudi se ta propaganda.

So what extremist groups are very good at

Ekstremističke skupine vrlo su vješte

is taking a very complicated, confusing, nuanced world

u pretvaranju složenog, zbunjujućeg, šarolikog svijeta

and simplifying that world into black and white,

u pojednostavljen crno-bijeli svijet,

good and evil.

u dobro i zlo.

And you become what is good,

I vi postajete ono dobro

challenging what is evil.

koje se odupire zlu.

So I want to talk a little bit about ISIS, Daesh,

Htjela bih ovdje spomenuti Islamsku državu ili ISIL

because they have been a game changer in how we look at these processes,

jer oni mijenjaju naše stajalište prema tim procesima,

and through a lot of the material and their tactics.

raznovrsnim materijalima i taktikama.

They're very much a modern movement.

To je vrlo moderan pokret.

One of the aspects is the internet and the usage of social media,

To je donekle zbog interneta i upotrebe društvenih mreža,

as we've all seen in headlines tweeting and videos of beheadings.

kao što smo vidjeli u naslovima i tvitovima s videozapisima dekapitacija.

But the internet alone does not radicalize you.

No sam internet nije ono što vas čini radikalnim.

The internet is a tool.

Internet je sredstvo.

You don't go online shopping for shoes

Ne ideš kupiti cipele putem interneta

and accidentally become a jihadist.

i slučajno tako postaneš džihadist.

However, what the Internet does do is it is a catalyst.

Međutim, internet jest katalizator.

It provides tools and scale and rapidity

Omogućuje alate, širinu i brzinu

that doesn't exist elsewhere.

kakve ne postoje drugdje.

And with ISIS, all of a sudden,

Uz ISIL se odjedanput

this idea of a cloaked, dark figure of a jihadist changed for us.

promijenilo ono kako zamišljamo ogrnutog, mračnog džihadista.

All of a sudden, we were in their kitchens.

Odjedanput smo se našli u njihovim kuhinjama.

We saw what they were eating for dinner.

Vidjeli smo što večeraju.

They were tweeting.

Tvitali su.

We had foreign terrorist fighters tweeting in their own languages.

Gledamo kako teroristi tvitaju na svom jeziku.

We had women going out there talking about their wedding day,

Gledamo kako žene pričaju o svom vjenčanju,

about the births of their children.

rođenju svoje djece.

We had gaming culture, all of a sudden,

Odjedanput se pojavila kultura igara

and references to Grand Theft Auto being made.

i povezivanje s igrom Grand Theft Auto.

So all of a sudden, they were homey.

Odjedanput postali su nam bliski.

They became human.

Postali su ljudi.

And the problem is that trying to counter it,

A problem je što su taj problem

lots of governments and social media companies

mnoge vlade i društvene mreže

just tried to censor.

pokušale riješiti cenzurom.

How do we get rid of terrorist content?

Kako se riješiti terorističkog sadržaja?

And it became a cat-and-mouse game

Postala je to igra mačke i miša

where we would see accounts taken down and they'd just come back up,

u kojima se računi brišu i ponovno pojavljuju

and an arrogance around somebody having a 25th account

uz bahatost koja prati nekog tko otvara 25. račun

and material that was disseminated everywhere.

i materijale koji su posvuda prošireni.

But we also saw a dangerous trend --

Ali vidjeli smo i opasan trend...

violent extremists know the rules and regulations of social media, too.

i nasilni ekstremisti znaju pravila i propise društvenih mreža.

So we would see a banal conversation with a recruiter

Pa smo tako vidjeli banalan razgovor s regrutom

start on a mainstream platform,

na popularnoj platformi,

and at the point at which that conversation

a u trenutku kada razgovor

was going to become illegal,

treba postati nezakonit,

they would jump to a smaller, less regulated,

prebacili bi se na manju

more encrypted platform.

šifriraniju platformu.

So all of a sudden, we couldn't track where that conversation went.

Odjedanput više ne možemo pratiti kamo razgovor vodi.

So this is a problem with censorship,

To je problem s cenzurom,

which is why we need to develop alternatives to censorship.

zbog čega moramo razviti alternative cenzuri.

ISIS is also a game-changer because it's state-building.

ISIL se razlikuje i po tome što nastoji stvoriti državu.

It's not just recruiting combatants;

Nije da samo regrutiraju borce;

it's trying to build a state.

pokušavaju izgraditi državu.

And what that means is all of a sudden,

To odjedanput znači

your recruitment model is much more broad.

da regrutiraš šire mase.

You're not just trying to get fighters --

Ne trebaju ti samo borci...

now you need architects, engineers, accountants, hackers and women.

trebaju ti arhitekti, inženjeri, računovođe, hakeri i žene.

We've actually seen a huge increase of women going

Značajno raste broj žena koje odlaze

in the last 24, but especially 12 months.

u zadnjih 24, ali posebno zadnjih 12 mjeseci.

Some countries, one in four of the people going over to join

U nekim zemljama jedna od četiri osobe koje se pridružuju

are now women.

sada su žene.

And so, this really changes

To mijenja

who we're trying to counter this process with.

kome se ovdje suprotstavljamo.

Now, not all doom and gloom.

No nije sve tako crno.

So the rest I'd like to talk about some of the positive things

Voljela bih do kraja govoriti o nekim pozitivnim stvarima

and the new innovation in trying to prevent and counter violent extremism.

i novim inovacijama u pokušaju sprječavanja nasilnog ekstremizma.

Preventing is very different than countering,

Sprječavanje nije isto kao suprotstavljanje,

and actually, you can think of it in medical terms.

a to se može pojasniti medicinskim pojmovima.

So preventative medicine is,

Preventivni lijekovi

how do we make it so you are naturally resilient

čine vas prirodno otpornima

to this process of radicalization,

na proces radikalizacije,

whereas that is going to be different

što se razlikuje od situacije

if somebody is already showing a symptom or a sign

kada netko već pokazuje simptom ili znak

of belonging to a violent extremist ideology.

pripadnosti nasilnoj ekstremističkoj ideologiji.

And so in preventative measures,

Kod preventivnih mjera

we're talking more about really broad groups of people

mislimo na vrlo široke skupine ljudi

and exposure to ideas

i izloženost idejama

to make them resilient.

koje ih čine otpornima.

Whereas it's very different

A velika je razlika

if somebody is starting to question and agree with certain things online,

kada netko tek počinje propitivati neke stvari na internetu,

and it's also very different if somebody already has a swastika tattoo

i kada netko već ima tetovažu svastike

and is very much embedded within a group.

i uklapa se u skupinu.

How do you reach them?

Kako doprijeti do njih?

So I'd like to go through three examples of each one of those levels

Prikazala bih tri primjera za svaku od tih razina

and talk you through

i objasnila

what some of the new ways of engaging with people are becoming.

neke nove načine angažmana s ljudima.

One is "Extreme Dialogue,"

Prvi je "ekstremni dijalog",

and it's an educational program that we helped develop.

to je obrazovni program koji smo pomogli razviti.

This one is from Canada,

Dolazi iz Kanade

and it's meant to create dialogues within a classroom setting,

i cilj mu je stvoriti dijalog u razredu,

using storytelling,

koristeći prepričavanje

because violent extremism can be very hard to try to explain,

jer nasilni ekstremizam zna biti teško objašnjiv,

especially to younger individuals.

pogotovo mlađim pojedincima.

So we have a network of former extremists and survivors of extremism

Imamo mrežu bivših ekstremista i onih koji su preživjeli ekstremizam

that tell their stories through video and create question-giving to classrooms,

koji kroz videozapise pričaju priče i postavljaju pitanja

to start a conversation about the topic.

kojima se pokreće razgovor o temi u razredu.

These two examples show Christianne,

Ova dva primjera prikazuju Christianne,

who lost her son,

koja je izgubila sina

who radicalized and died fighting for ISIS,

koji je postao radikal i poginuo za ISIL,

and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi

te Daniela, bivšeg neonacista,

who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi,

iznimno nasilnog neonacista,

and they pose questions about their lives and where they're at and regret,

i oni postavljaju pitanja o životu, o tome gdje su sada i za čim žale,

and force a classroom to have a dialogue around it.

te potiču raspravu o tome u razredu.

Now, looking at that middle range of individuals,

Sada razmotrimo tu srednju razinu pojedinaca,

actually, we need a lot of civil society voices.

tu nam treba puno građanskih glasova.

How do you interact with people that are looking for information online,

Kako komunicirati s ljudima koji traže informacije na internetu,

that are starting to toy with an ideology,

koji se počinju poigravati ideologijom,

that are doing those searching identity questions?

koji traže odgovore na pitanja o identitetu?

How do we provide alternatives for that?

Kako pružiti alternative za to?

And that's when we combine large groups of civil society voices

I tu moramo kombinirati velike skupine građanskih udruga

with creatives, techies, app developers, artists, comedians,

sastavljene od kreativaca, tehničara, programera, umjetnika, komičara,

and we can create really specified content

i možemo stvoriti konkretan sadržaj

and actually, online, disseminate it to very strategic audiences.

koji bi se strateški širio na internetu.

So one example would be creating a satirical video

Na primjer, izradimo satiričan video

which makes fun of Islamophobia,

koji ismijava islamofobe

and targeting it to 15- to 20-year-olds online

i koji je namijenjen osobama od 15 do 20 godina na internetu

that have an interest in white power music

koje se zanimaju za nacističku glazbu

and live specifically in Manchester.

i konkretno žive u Manchesteru.

We can use these marketing tools to be very specific,

Takve promidžbene alate možemo izraditi da budu konkretni

so that we know when somebody's viewing, watching

i da znamo kada netko gleda

and engaging with that content,

i postaje angažiran,

it's not just the average person, it's not me or you --

ne radi se o prosječnoj osobi, o meni ili vama...

it's a very specific audience that we are looking to engage with.

radi se o konkretnoj publici koju želimo angažirati.

Even more downstream, we developed a pilot program called "One to One,"

Još konkretnije, razvili smo probni program "Jedan na jedan",

where we took former extremists

u kojem bivše ekstremiste

and we had them reach out directly to a group of labeled neofascists

tražimo da se izravno obrate skupini poznatih neofašista,

as well as Islamist extremists,

kao i islamističkim ekstremistima,

and put direct messages through Facebook Messenger into their inbox, saying,

te pošalju izravne poruke putem Facebook Messengera, u kojima kažu:

"Hey, I see where you're going. I've been there.

"Hej, vidim kamo ideš. Bio sam tamo.

If you want to talk, I'm here."

Ako želiš razgovarati, tu sam."

Now, we kind of expected death threats from this sort of interaction.

Na neki smo način očekivali prijetnje u takvoj vrsti komunikacije.

It's a little alarming to have a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"

Zvuči opasno kada ti bivši neonacist kaže: "Hej, kako si?"

But actually, we found that around 60 percent

Ali zapravo je oko 60 posto

of the people reached out to responded,

ljudi kojima smo se obratili odgovorilo,

and of that, around another 60 percent had sustained engagement,

i oko 60 posto od tih ljudi reagiralo je na angažman,

meaning that they were having conversations

odnosno razgovaralo se

with the hardest people to reach about what they were going through,

s ljudima do kojih je najteže doprijeti o tome što im se događa,

planting seeds of doubt

sijalo se sjeme sumnje

and giving them alternatives for talking about these subjects,

i davale su im se alternative vezane uz te predmete,

and that's really important.

a to je jako važno.

So what we're trying to do

Ono što pokušavamo postići

is actually bring unlikely sectors to the table.

jest dovesti neočekivano za stol.

We have amazing activists all over the world,

Imamo sjajne aktiviste diljem svijeta,

but oftentimes, their messages are not strategic

ali njihove poruke često nisu strateške

or they don't actually reach the audiences they want to reach.

ili ne dopiru do ljudi do kojih žele.

So we work with networks of former extremists.

Zato radimo s mrežama bivših ekstremista.

We work with networks of young people in different parts of the world.

Radimo s mrežama mladih u različitim dijelovima svijeta.

And we work with them to bring the tech sector to the table

I radimo tako da okupljamo tehničare,

with artists and creatives and marketing expertise

umjetnike, kreativce s iskustvom u marketingu

so that we can actually have a more robust and challenging of extremism

tako da još čvršće izazovemo ekstremizam

that works together.

kroz međusobnu suradnju.

So I would say that if you are in the audience

Ako ste sada u publici,

and you happen to be a graphic designer,

a grafički ste dizajner,

a poet, a marketing expert,

pjesnik, stručnjak za marketing,

somebody that works in PR,

radite u odnosima s javnošću,

a comedian --

komičar...

you might not think that this is your sector,

možda mislite da ovo nije vaš sektor,

but actually, the skills that you have right now

no zapravo vještine koje imate

might be exactly what is needed

možda su upravo ono što nam treba

to help challenge extremism effectively.

da se učinkovito suprotstavimo ekstremizmu.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)