How young people join violent extremist groups -- and how to stop them | Erin Marie Saltman
169,634 views ・ 2017-09-18
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譯者: Lilian Chiu
審譯者: nr chan
00:12
So in 2011, I altered my name
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在 2011 年,我改了名字,
00:16
so that I could participate
in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.
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這樣我才能參與
在匈牙利的極右派青年營。
00:20
I was doing a PhD looking at
youth political socialization --
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我當時在攻讀博士,
研究青年政治社會主義化──
00:25
why young people were developing
political ideologies
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為什麼在後共產主義的背景下,
00:28
in a post-communist setting,
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年輕人會發展出政治意識形態,
00:30
and I saw that a lot
of young people I was talking to
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我和很多年輕人談過,我看見他們
00:33
were joining the Far Right,
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加入極右派,
00:35
and this was astounding to me.
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這讓我很吃驚。
00:37
So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp
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所以我想要參加這個青年營,
00:39
to get a better understanding
of why people were joining.
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進一步了解為什麼人們會加入。
00:42
So a colleague enrolled me,
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一位同事幫我加入了,
00:44
and my last name sounds
a little bit too Jewish.
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而我的姓氏聽起來太有猶太味,
00:47
So Erin got turned into Iréna,
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所以艾琳被換成艾琳娜,
00:50
and Saltman got turned into Sós,
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沙特曼被換成沙許,
00:52
which means "salty" in Hungarian.
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它在匈牙利語的意思是「鹹的」。
00:55
And in Hungarian,
your last name goes first,
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匈牙利語會把姓氏放在前面,
00:57
so my James Bond name
turned into "Salty Irena,"
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所以我的詹姆士龐德(情報員)
假名就成了「鹹的艾琳娜」,
01:02
which is not something
I would have naturally chosen for myself.
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這不是個我會幫自己選的名字。
01:06
But going to this camp,
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但,參加這個青年營,
01:08
I was further shocked to realize
that it was actually really fun.
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讓我進一步感到震驚,
因為我發現它其實很好玩。
01:13
They talked very little about politics.
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他們很少談政治。
01:15
It was mostly learning how to ride horses,
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主要是在學如何騎馬、
01:18
shooting a bow and arrow,
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如何射箭,
01:20
live music at night,
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晚上有現場音樂表演,
01:21
free food and alcohol,
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食物和酒精飲料都免費,
01:23
also some air-gun target practice
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還有空氣槍的打靶練習,
01:26
using mainstream politicians'
faces as targets.
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用主流政治人物的臉當目標。
01:30
And this seemed like a very,
actually, friendly, inclusive group
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這其實感覺就像是個
非常友善、包容的團體,
01:34
until you started talking or mentioning
anything to do with the Roma population,
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但當你開始談到或提到和吉普賽人口、
猶太人、或移民相關的事時,
01:39
Jewish people or immigrants,
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就不是這樣好玩了,
01:41
and then the discourse would become
very hate-based very quickly.
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交談接著就馬上會變成
以恨意為基礎。
01:46
So it led me into my work now,
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它導致我開始做現在的這個研究,
01:49
where we pose the question,
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在這研究中我們提出一個問題:
01:51
"Why do people join
violent extremist movements,
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「為什麼人們要加入
暴力極端主義運動、
01:54
and how do we effectively
counter these processes?"
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以及我們如何有效地
對抗這些過程?」
01:58
In the aftermath of horrible
atrocities and attacks
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在發生在比利時、法國、全世界的
02:01
in places like Belgium, France,
but all over the world,
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恐怖暴行和攻擊的餘波中,
02:05
sometimes it's easier for us to think,
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有時我們這樣想會比較容易:
02:06
"Well, these must be sociopaths,
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「這些人一定是反社會者,
02:08
these must be naturally
violent individuals.
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這些人一定天性就很暴力。
02:12
They must have something wrong
with their upbringing."
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他們在養育過程中一定有出問題。」
02:14
And what's really tragic
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很不幸的是,
02:16
is that oftentimes there's no one profile.
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通常,他們並非特定形象的人。
02:18
Many people come
from educated backgrounds,
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許多人來自受過教育的背景,
02:22
different socioeconomic backgrounds,
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來自不同的社會經濟背景,
02:24
men and women, different ages,
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有男有女,年齡都不同,
02:27
some with families, some single.
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有些人有家庭,有些人單身,
02:29
So why? What is this allure?
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所以……為什麼?誘因是什麼?
02:32
And this is what
I want to talk you through,
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我來這裡就是想與大家談這點、
02:34
as well as how do we
challenge this in a modern era?
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以及在現代我們要如何挑戰它?
02:38
We do know, through research,
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透過研究,我們確實知道
02:40
that there are quite a number
of different things
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有許多樣不同的因素
02:42
that affect somebody's
process of radicalization,
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會影響人的激進化過程,
02:45
and we categorize these
into push and pull factors.
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我們把這些因素分類為
「推式」和「拉式」因素。
02:48
And these are pretty much similar
for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups
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從極右派、新納粹團體、
一路到伊斯蘭極端主義
02:52
all the way to Islamist extremist
and terrorist groups.
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及恐怖分子團體,
都是很類似的情況。
02:55
And push factors are basically
what makes you vulnerable
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推式因素基本上是指讓你脆弱、
02:59
to a process of radicalization,
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讓你容易被激進化過程影響的因素,
03:01
to joining a violent extremist group.
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因而會加入暴力極端主義團體。
03:03
And these can be
a lot of different things,
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可能的因素有很多,
03:05
but roughly, a sense of alienation,
a sense of isolation,
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不過,大致上來說,
包括疏離感、孤立感、
03:09
questioning your own identity,
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執疑你自己的身份、
03:11
but also feeling that your in-group
is under attack,
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還有感覺到你的小團體受到攻擊,
03:14
and your in group might be based
on a nationality or an ethnicity
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而你的小團體可能是指
同民族、同人種、
03:18
or a religion,
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同宗教的人,
03:19
and feeling that larger powers around you
are doing nothing to help.
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並覺得你周圍比你更強大的
那些力量都沒有出手幫忙。
03:23
Now, push factors alone
do not make you a violent extremist,
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單有推式因素並不會
讓你變成暴力的極端主義者,
03:27
because if that were the fact,
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因為如果是那樣的話,
03:28
those same factors would go
towards a group like the Roma population,
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像吉普賽人這類的團體
也應該會有這些因素,
03:32
and they're not
a violently mobilized group.
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而他們並不是個
有暴力行動傾向的團體。
03:34
So we have to look at the pull factors.
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所以我們也得要看拉式因素。
03:37
What are these violent
extremist organizations offering
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這些暴力極端主義組織提供了什麼
03:40
that other groups are not offering?
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是其他團體沒有提供的?
03:42
And actually, this is usually
very positive things,
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事實上,答案通常
是些很正面的事物,
03:45
very seemingly empowering things,
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似乎很能夠賦權的事物,
03:47
such as brotherhood and sisterhood
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比如兄弟情誼、姐妹情誼、
03:49
and a sense of belonging,
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以及歸屬感,
03:50
as well as giving somebody
a spiritual purpose,
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以及給人一個靈性的目的,
03:53
a divine purpose
to build a utopian society
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一個神聖的目的,
如果這個目的能達成,
03:57
if their goals can be met,
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就能建立一個烏托邦社會,
03:59
but also a sense of empowerment
and adventure.
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另外也有賦權和冒險的感覺。
04:02
When we look
at foreign terrorist fighters,
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當我們去看外國的恐怖份子鬥士,
04:04
we see young men
with the wind in their hair
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我們看到的是沙漠上
自由自在的年輕人,
04:07
out in the desert
and women going to join them
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且女人也去加入他們,
04:09
to have nuptials out in the sunset.
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在日落時分舉行婚禮。
04:12
It's very romantic, and you become a hero.
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那很浪漫,你變成了英雄。
04:16
For both men and women,
that's the propaganda being given.
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對男人和女人用的宣傳都一樣。
04:19
So what extremist groups are very good at
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所以極端主義團體非常擅長的是
04:22
is taking a very complicated,
confusing, nuanced world
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把一個非常複雜、困惑、微妙的世界
04:27
and simplifying that world
into black and white,
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簡化成只有黑與白、
04:30
good and evil.
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正與邪。
04:31
And you become what is good,
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你會在好人的一方,
04:33
challenging what is evil.
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挑戰邪惡的一方。
04:36
So I want to talk a little bit
about ISIS, Daesh,
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我想要談一下 ISIS、伊斯蘭國,
04:40
because they have been a game changer
in how we look at these processes,
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因為針對我們如何看待這些過程,
他們算是改變遊戲規則的人,
04:44
and through a lot of the material
and their tactics.
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他們透過很多素材和戰術來做到。
04:47
They're very much a modern movement.
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他們可說是個現代的運動。
04:50
One of the aspects is the internet
and the usage of social media,
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其中一個面向是網際網路,
社交媒體的運用,
04:55
as we've all seen in headlines
tweeting and videos of beheadings.
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我們已經在關於斬首的推特頭條
以及影片中看過這現象了。
04:59
But the internet alone
does not radicalize you.
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但光只有網際網路
並不會讓你變激進。
05:02
The internet is a tool.
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網際網路只是工具。
05:03
You don't go online shopping for shoes
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你不會上網買了鞋子之後
05:05
and accidentally become a jihadist.
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就突然變成聖戰士。
05:07
However, what the Internet
does do is it is a catalyst.
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然而,網際網路的確是種催化劑。
05:11
It provides tools and scale and rapidity
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它提供工具、規模、迅速性,
05:15
that doesn't exist elsewhere.
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而這些都是其他地方沒有的。
05:16
And with ISIS, all of a sudden,
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在 ISIS 的例子中則是,
05:19
this idea of a cloaked, dark figure
of a jihadist changed for us.
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對我們來說,聖戰士的這個
披斗篷黑暗形象突然改變了。
05:24
All of a sudden,
we were in their kitchens.
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突然間,我們在他們的廚房裡,
05:26
We saw what they were eating for dinner.
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我們看見他們晚餐吃些什麼。
他們會用推特。
05:28
They were tweeting.
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05:29
We had foreign terrorist fighters
tweeting in their own languages.
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我們會看到外國恐怖份子鬥士
用他們自己的語言在推特。
05:32
We had women going out there
talking about their wedding day,
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有女人在那裡談論她們的結婚日,
談論她們孩子的出生。
05:35
about the births of their children.
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05:37
We had gaming culture, all of a sudden,
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突然間還有遊戲文化,
05:39
and references
to Grand Theft Auto being made.
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還會提及到俠盜獵車手系列。
05:43
So all of a sudden, they were homey.
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所以,突然間,他們就成了自己人。
05:45
They became human.
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他們變成了人類。
05:46
And the problem
is that trying to counter it,
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問題是,許多社交媒體公司
05:49
lots of governments
and social media companies
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和政府試圖對抗它的方式,
05:51
just tried to censor.
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就只是做審查。
05:52
How do we get rid of terrorist content?
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我們要如何除去恐怖主義的內容?
05:54
And it became a cat-and-mouse game
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它變成了貓捉老鼠的遊戲,
05:56
where we would see accounts taken down
and they'd just come back up,
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在遊戲中,我們看到帳號
被關閉但又馬上東山再起,
05:59
and an arrogance around somebody
having a 25th account
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也看到有人對開了
第 25 個帳號沾沾自喜,
06:02
and material that was
disseminated everywhere.
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也會看到素材被到處傳播。
06:05
But we also saw a dangerous trend --
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但我們也看到一個危險的趨勢──
06:07
violent extremists know the rules
and regulations of social media, too.
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暴力極端主義者也知道
社交媒體的規則和規定。
06:12
So we would see a banal
conversation with a recruiter
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所以我們可以看見與
招聘人員的平凡對話,
06:16
start on a mainstream platform,
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就直接在主流平台上開始進行,
06:18
and at the point
at which that conversation
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在某個時點,這個對話就會
06:21
was going to become illegal,
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變成非法的,
06:22
they would jump to a smaller,
less regulated,
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他們就會跳到一個較小、較沒管理、
06:24
more encrypted platform.
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較多加密的平台。
06:26
So all of a sudden, we couldn't
track where that conversation went.
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突然間,我們就無法
追縱那對話到哪去了。
06:30
So this is a problem with censorship,
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這就是審查制度的問題,
06:32
which is why we need to develop
alternatives to censorship.
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也是為何我們需要發展
審查制度以外的替代方案。
06:35
ISIS is also a game-changer
because it's state-building.
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ISIS 之所以能改變遊戲規則,
也是因為它在建立國家。
06:39
It's not just recruiting combatants;
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它不只是在徵召戰士;
06:41
it's trying to build a state.
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它是在試圖建立一個國家。
06:43
And what that means is all of a sudden,
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那意味著,突然間,
06:45
your recruitment model is much more broad.
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你的徵召模型就廣泛許多。
06:47
You're not just trying to get fighters --
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你並不只需要戰士──
06:49
now you need architects, engineers,
accountants, hackers and women.
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你還需要建築師、工程師、
會計、駭客、女人。
06:53
We've actually seen
a huge increase of women going
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我們確實看到,在過去 24 個月,
06:56
in the last 24, but especially 12 months.
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特別是過去 12 個月,
加入的女性人數大增。
06:59
Some countries, one in four
of the people going over to join
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在某些國家,去加入的人當中,
07:02
are now women.
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四個就有一個是女性。
07:03
And so, this really changes
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這真的改變了
07:05
who we're trying to counter
this process with.
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我們在對抗這個過程時所涉及的人。
07:08
Now, not all doom and gloom.
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並非完全沒希望。
07:10
So the rest I'd like to talk about
some of the positive things
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所以在剩下的時間中,
我想談些正面的東西、
07:13
and the new innovation in trying
to prevent and counter violent extremism.
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以及在試著預防和對抗
暴力極端主義方面的創新。
07:17
Preventing is very different
than countering,
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預防和對抗是非常不同的,
07:19
and actually, you can think of it
in medical terms.
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其實,各位可以用醫學用語來看它。
07:21
So preventative medicine is,
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預防性的藥是
07:24
how do we make it
so you are naturally resilient
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我們要如何做,才能讓你從
07:27
to this process of radicalization,
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激進化的過程當中自然恢復,
07:29
whereas that is going to be different
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這就不同於
07:31
if somebody is already showing
a symptom or a sign
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已經出現暴力極端主義
意識形態的症狀或徵兆的人。
07:34
of belonging to a violent
extremist ideology.
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07:37
And so in preventative measures,
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所以,在預防措施上,
07:38
we're talking more
about really broad groups of people
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我們會更考量更廣泛的族群,
07:41
and exposure to ideas
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及對想法更廣泛的接觸,
07:43
to make them resilient.
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來讓他們能夠恢復。
07:45
Whereas it's very different
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這非常不同於
07:46
if somebody is starting to question
and agree with certain things online,
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有人開始在線上執疑
並同意某些東西的情況,
07:50
and it's also very different
if somebody already has a swastika tattoo
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也非常不同於有人身上
已經有「卍」字刺青的情況,
07:54
and is very much embedded within a group.
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及已深植在一個團體中的情況。
07:56
How do you reach them?
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要如何觸及到這些人?
07:58
So I'd like to go through three examples
of each one of those levels
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針對這三個層級,
我會各舉一個例子。
08:02
and talk you through
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帶大家了解
08:03
what some of the new ways
of engaging with people are becoming.
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跟這些人互動的一些
新方式變成什麼樣子。
08:07
One is "Extreme Dialogue,"
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其一是「極端對話」,
08:08
and it's an educational program
that we helped develop.
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它是一個我們協助
發展出來的教育專案。
08:11
This one is from Canada,
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這個是來自加拿大,
08:14
and it's meant to create dialogues
within a classroom setting,
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目的是要在教室的環境中創造對話,
08:18
using storytelling,
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用說故事的方式,
08:19
because violent extremism
can be very hard to try to explain,
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因為試著解釋暴力
極端主義可能是很困難的,
08:22
especially to younger individuals.
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特別是對年輕人解釋。
08:25
So we have a network of former extremists
and survivors of extremism
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所以我們有一個前極端主義者
與極端主義存活者的網路,
08:29
that tell their stories through video
and create question-giving to classrooms,
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透過影片來說他們的故事,
創造提出問題的教室,
08:33
to start a conversation about the topic.
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來開啟和這個主題有關的對話。
08:35
These two examples show Christianne,
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這兩個例子中的是克莉斯坦,
08:37
who lost her son,
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她失去了兒子,
08:39
who radicalized and died
fighting for ISIS,
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她兒子激進化並為 ISIS 戰死,
08:41
and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi
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還有前新納粹主義者丹尼爾,
08:43
who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi,
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他以前是極暴力的新納粹主義者,
08:45
and they pose questions about their lives
and where they're at and regret,
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他們提出關於他們人生的問題,
以及他們有什麼樣的悔恨,
08:49
and force a classroom
to have a dialogue around it.
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迫使教室中的人
針對此事來進行對話。
08:52
Now, looking at that middle range
of individuals,
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看看中間範圍的個人,
08:56
actually, we need a lot
of civil society voices.
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其實,我們需要
很多公民社會的聲音。
08:58
How do you interact with people
that are looking for information online,
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你要如何和在線上找資訊的人、
09:02
that are starting to toy with an ideology,
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開始半假半真地考慮
一種意識形態的人、
09:04
that are doing those searching
identity questions?
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及提出關於尋找身份
相關問題的人互動?
09:07
How do we provide alternatives for that?
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我們要如何對此提供替代方案?
09:09
And that's when we combine
large groups of civil society voices
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所以我們需要結合代表
公民社會聲音的大型團體,
09:13
with creatives, techies,
app developers, artists, comedians,
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結合創意者、技術專家、應用程式
開發者、藝術家、喜劇演員,
09:17
and we can create really specified content
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我們能創造出非常明確的內容,
09:20
and actually, online, disseminate it
to very strategic audiences.
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放在線上,傳播給
非常關鍵的觀眾群,
09:24
So one example would be
creating a satirical video
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一個例子是製作諷刺影片,
09:27
which makes fun of Islamophobia,
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拿伊斯蘭恐懼症來開玩笑,
09:30
and targeting it
to 15- to 20-year-olds online
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目標為 15 到 20 歲的觀眾,
09:34
that have an interest in white power music
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對於白人至上音樂感興趣,
09:36
and live specifically in Manchester.
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且很明確是住在曼徹斯特的。
09:38
We can use these marketing tools
to be very specific,
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我們可以用這些行銷工具
來針對非常明確的目標,
09:41
so that we know
when somebody's viewing, watching
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讓我們知道何時
有人在瀏覽、在觀看,
09:44
and engaging with that content,
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和內容有所連結,
09:46
it's not just the average person,
it's not me or you --
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並不只是一般人,不是我或你──
09:48
it's a very specific audience
that we are looking to engage with.
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是非常明確的觀眾,
我們想要接觸到的特定觀眾。
09:52
Even more downstream, we developed
a pilot program called "One to One,"
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即使在較下流處,我們也開發了
一個前導專案「一個對一個」,
09:56
where we took former extremists
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我們找來前極端主義者,
09:57
and we had them reach out directly
to a group of labeled neofascists
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並讓他們直接去接觸被標籤為
新法西斯主義以及伊斯蘭
10:02
as well as Islamist extremists,
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極端份子的團體,
10:04
and put direct messages through Facebook
Messenger into their inbox, saying,
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用臉書簡訊直接
發送訊息給他們,說:
10:08
"Hey, I see where you're going.
I've been there.
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「嘿,我知道你打算做什麼,
我有這樣的經驗。
10:10
If you want to talk, I'm here."
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如果你想談談,我在這裡。」
10:12
Now, we kind of expected death threats
from this sort of interaction.
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我們也預期這類互動
會帶來死亡威脅。
10:15
It's a little alarming to have
a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"
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聽到一位前新納粹對你說
「嘿,你好嗎?」
是還蠻讓人不安的。
10:19
But actually, we found
that around 60 percent
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但其實我們發現,
我們接觸的人中,
約 60% 的人會做出回應,
10:22
of the people reached out to responded,
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10:24
and of that, around another 60 percent
had sustained engagement,
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這些人當中,又有 60%
有持續接觸下去,
10:28
meaning that they were
having conversations
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也就是說他們繼續和
最難接觸到的人進行交談,
10:30
with the hardest people to reach
about what they were going through,
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在談他們的經歷,
種下懷疑的種子,
10:34
planting seeds of doubt
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10:35
and giving them alternatives
for talking about these subjects,
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提供他們可以談論
這些主題的替代方案,
10:38
and that's really important.
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那是非常重要的。
10:40
So what we're trying to do
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所以我們試圖做的,
10:43
is actually bring
unlikely sectors to the table.
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其實是去幫助不太可能的部門。
10:46
We have amazing activists
all over the world,
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在全世界,我們有很棒的活躍份子,
10:48
but oftentimes,
their messages are not strategic
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但通常,他們的訊息不是策略性的,
10:50
or they don't actually reach
the audiences they want to reach.
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或者他們其實不會接觸到
他們想要接觸的觀眾,
10:53
So we work with networks
of former extremists.
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所以我們和前極端份子的網路合作。
10:55
We work with networks of young people
in different parts of the world.
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我們與世界不同區域的
年輕人的網路合作。
我們和他們合作來提供技術部門,
10:59
And we work with them
to bring the tech sector to the table
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11:02
with artists and creatives
and marketing expertise
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配合藝術家、創意者、行銷專家,
11:05
so that we can actually have
a more robust and challenging of extremism
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這樣我們就能有比較強大
且有挑戰性的極端主義,
11:10
that works together.
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能夠一同合作。
11:11
So I would say
that if you are in the audience
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我會說,如果你是觀眾之一,
11:14
and you happen to be a graphic designer,
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且你剛好是平面設計師、
11:17
a poet, a marketing expert,
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詩人、行銷專家、
11:19
somebody that works in PR,
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在公關部門工作的人、
11:21
a comedian --
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喜劇演員──
11:22
you might not think
that this is your sector,
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你可能不覺得這是你的部門,
11:24
but actually, the skills
that you have right now
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但事實上,你現在擁有的技能
11:27
might be exactly what is needed
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可能就是協助有效地挑戰
11:29
to help challenge extremism effectively.
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極端主義所需要的技能。
11:32
Thank you.
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謝謝。
11:33
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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