Julia Dhar: How to have constructive conversations | TED

Transcriber:

翻译人员: Gloria Shi 校对人员: Cissy Yun

Three planes, 25 hours, 10,000 miles.

我父亲从澳大利亚飞到美国， 他换了三架不同的飞机，

My dad gets off a flight from Australia with one thing in mind

时间长达25个小时，飞行了一万英里。

and it's not a snack or a shower or a nap.

然而他刚一下飞机， 不是去洗澡、吃饭或者睡觉。

It's November 2016

那时正好是在2016年11月，

and Dad is here to talk to Americans about the election.

我爸的目的是跟美国人聊大选。

Now, Dad's a news fiend, but for him,

我爸是个新闻迷，但对他来说，

this is not just red or blue, swing states or party platforms.

他不仅仅是在讨论红州、蓝州、 摇摆州或政纲。

He has some really specific intentions.

他想从交流中获得更多。

He wants to listen, be heard and understand.

他希望能够互相倾听，并且互相理解。

And over two weeks, he has hundreds of conversations

两周以来，从新罕布什尔到迈阿密，

with Americans from New Hampshire to Miami.

他跟不同州的美国人， 进行了几百场谈话。

Some of them are tough conversations,

但是他和有些人聊得并不愉快，

complete differences of opinions,

他们的观点完全不同，

wildly different worldviews,

因为他们有着截然不同的世界观

radically opposite life experiences.

和完全不一样的生活经历。

But in all of those interactions,

但在每一词的交谈后，

Dad walks away with a big smile on his face

我父亲和对方都会

and so does the other person.

笑容满面地离开。

You can see one of them here.

你可以看到，图中就是其中一个。

And in those interactions,

我父亲在聊天的时候，

he's having a version of what it seems like we have less of,

使用了一种特殊的交流方式，

but want more of --

这是我们很多人缺乏的，

a constructive conversation.

叫做“建设性谈话”。

We have more ways than ever to connect.

我们比以往有着更多的沟通方式，

And yet, politically, ideologically,

但在政治和意识形态上，

it feels like we are further and further apart.

我们却越来越相去甚远。

We tell pollsters that we want politicians who are open-minded.

在进行民意调查中， 我们表示希望政治家们思维开放。

And yet when they change their point of view,

但是一旦他们改变了观点，

we say that they lacked conviction.

我们又说他们缺乏信念。

For us, when we're confronted with information

对我们来说，当我们所接收到的信息

that challenges an existing worldview,

和我们现有的世界观相冲突时，

我们不会倾向于开放自己的思维， 而是会更坚定原有观念。

our tendency is not to open up, it's to double down.

We even have a term for it in social psychology.

在社会心理学中，有个专业术语，

It's called belief perseverance.

将这种现象称为“信念固着”。

And boy, do some people's beliefs seem to persevere.

有些人的信念真的很顽强。

I'm no stranger to tough conversations.

我很熟悉这种艰难的交谈。

I got my start in what I now call productive disagreement

在高中的辩论赛中， 我开始使用一种新的辩论方式，

我称它为“有效争论”法。

in high school debate.

I even went on to win

后来我甚至赢过三次 世界学校辩论锦标赛。

the World Schools Debate Championship three times.

I've been in a lot of arguments, is what I'm saying,

就像我说的，我经历了很多次辩论，

but it took watching my dad on the streets of the US

但看到我父亲在美国街头的谈话之后

to understand that we need to figure out

我才意识到，我们应该仔细想想，

how we go into conversations.

我们到底是如何展开谈话的。

Not looking for the victory, but the progress.

不是为了争赢，而是为了取得进展。

And so since November 2016, that's what I've been doing.

这就是从2016年11月以来， 我一直在做的事。

Working with governments, foundations, corporations, families,

我跟政府、基金会、 企业以及家庭合作，

to uncover the tools and techniques

寻找能够化解那些 无法调和的矛盾的工具和技巧。

that allow us to talk when it feels like the divide is unbridgeable.

And constructive conversations that really move the dialogue forward

能够让对话进行下去的“建设性谈话”

have these same three essential features.

有三个重要的基本特征。

First, at least one party in the conversation

第一，至少谈话中的一方，

is willing to choose curiosity over clash.

更愿意表现好奇心， 而不是产生冲突。

They're open to the idea that the discussion is a climbing wall,

其次，他们愿意接受

这场谈话更像是“攀岩运动”， 而不是“笼中搏击”。

not a cage fight,

that they'll make progress over time

随着时间的推移，他们会取得进展，

and are able to anchor all of that in purpose of the discussion.

并能够在讨论的目的中锚定所有这些。

For someone trained in formal debate,

进行过正式辩论训练的人

it is so tempting to run headlong at the disagreement.

很容易把有据的辩论，

直接变成冲突。

In fact, we call that clash

and in formal argumentation,

事实上，在正式的辩论中，

it's a punishable offense if there's not enough of it.

没有提供有效证据的发言， 是会受到惩罚的。

But I've noticed, you've probably noticed, too,

但是我想我们都注意到了，

that in real life that tends to make people shut down,

在实际生活中，谈话中的冲突， 人们更倾向于封闭自己，

not just from the conversation,

这不止影响到谈话，

but even from the relationship.

甚至会影响到彼此的关系。

It's actually one of the causes of unfriending, online and off.

无论在网络还是现实生活中， 这都是影响彼此关系的原因之一。

So instead, you might consider a technique

所以我们应该如何做呢？

好莱坞制片人布莱恩·格雷泽， 提出了一种方法，

made popular by the Hollywood producer Brian Grazer,

the curiosity conversation.

叫做“好奇交谈”

And the whole point of a curiosity conversation

好奇交谈的主要目的，

is to understand the other person's perspective,

就是尽可能的倾听交谈方的观点，

to see what's on their side of the fence.

理解对方到底在表达什么。

And so the next time

所以下次交谈的时候，

that someone says something you instinctively disagree with,

如果你听到某些跟你意见不同的观点，

that you react violently to,

当你本能的想立即反驳时，

you only need one sentence and one question:

你只需要这样说：

“I never thought about it exactly that way before.

“我从没以这个角度考虑过这个问题”，

What can you share that would help me see what you see?”

“你是否可以分享更多， 让我理解你的想法呢？”

What's remarkable about curiosity conversations

“好奇交谈”的显著成效是，

is that the people you are curious about tend to become curious about you.

你在谈话中表现出的好奇心， 也会使对方对你产生好奇。

Whether it's a friendly Australian gentleman,

无论对方是友好的澳大利亚人、

a political foe or a corporate rival,

政敌或商业对手，

they begin to wonder what it is that you see

他们开始好奇你是如何看待问题，

and whether they could see it to.

他们是否也能够理解你的角度。

Constructive conversations aren't a one-shot deal.

“建设性谈话”不是一次性解决矛盾。

If you go into an encounter expecting everyone to walk out

如果展开一次谈话的时候，

你期待每个人都跟你的想法一致，

with the same point of view that you walked in with,

there's really no chance for progress.

那就会失去进步的可能性。

Instead, we need to think about conversations as a climbing wall

相反，我们要将谈话看成攀岩运动，

to do a variant of what my dad did during this trip,

就像我父亲在这次旅行中做的，

pocketing a little nugget of information here,

抓住一块有用的信息，做为支撑点，

并寻找下一块有用的信息。

adapting his approach there.

That's actually a technique borrowed from formal debate

这借鉴了正式辩论中使用的技能，

where you present an idea,

当你提出一个观点，被反方驳回，

it's attacked and you adapt and re-explain,

你以对方的观点为基础， 继续论证自己的观点，

it's attacked again,

再次被对方驳回，

you adapt and re-explain.

你再次重新论证自己的观点。

The whole expectation is that your idea gets better

我们所期望的是， 通过不断的质疑和批判，

through challenge and criticism.

能够产生更好的想法。

And the evidence from really high-stakes international negotiations

在高风险的国际谈判中，

suggests that that's what successful negotiators do as well.

成功的谈判者也是这样做的。

They go into conversations

在谈判中，

expecting to learn from the challenges that they will receive

他们期待从反对意见中 吸取有价值的信息，

to use objections to make their ideas and proposals better.

来完善自己的观点和建议。

Development is in some way a service that we can do for others

从某种意义上说， 这种观点的发展，是一种服务，

我们可以为他人服务， 其他人也可以为我们服务。

and that others can do for us.

It makes the ideas sharper,

用这种方式交谈，会使观点变的尖锐，

but the relationships warmer.

但关系会变的更和谐。

Curiosity can be relationship magic

好奇是使关系变得融洽的魔法，

and development can be rocket fuel for your ideas.

发展是你思想能量的来源。

But there are some situations

但是仍然有一些情况，

where it just feels like it's not worth the bother.

让我们认为不值得浪费精力， 使用这种交谈的方式。

And in those cases

在这种情况下，

it can be because the purpose of the discussion isn't clear.

可能是因为讨论的目的并不明确。

I think back to how my dad went into those conversations

我希望分析我父亲是如何交谈的，

with a really clear sense of purpose.

他谈话的目的都是清晰的。

He was there to learn, to listen, to share his point of view.

他一边以理解和倾听为基础， 一边分享自己的观点。

And once that purpose is understood by both parties,

当谈话者双方都知道这个目的，

then you can begin to move on.

谈话就可以继续进行了。

Lay out our vision for the future.

阐述我们对未来的愿景。

Make a decision.

做出决定。

Get funding.

获得资金。

Then you can move on to principles.

然后可以再次进行。

When people shared with my dad their hopes for America,

当人们跟我父亲谈到对美国的期望时，

that's where they started with the big picture,

他们总是从全局开始，

not with personality or politics or policies.

而不是从个人、政治 或者某项政策开始。

Because inadvertently they were doing something

因为人们在无意识中，

that we do naturally with outsiders

能自然的跟局外人交谈，

and find it really difficult sometimes to do with insiders.

但是却很难跟局内人交谈。

They painted in broad strokes

所以他们在探究细节之前，

before digging into the details.

先从全局开始。

But maybe you live in the same zip code or the same house

可能你们住在同一个地区 或同一个屋檐下，

and it feels like none of that common ground is there today.

但是你们之间却没有任何共通之处。

Then you might consider a version of disagreement time travel,

那么你们可以先从“时空旅行”开始，

asking your counterpart to articulate what kind of neighborhood, country,

比如你可以问对方：

“你认为一年后，或者十年后，

你的邻居、国家、

world, community,

世界或社会是什么样的？”

they want a year from now,

a decade from now.

It is very tempting to dwell in present tensions

我们的谈话很容易 陷入当今紧张局势，

and get bogged down in practicalities.

或陷入现实困境中。

Inviting people to inhabit a future possibility

但是邀请人们展望未来，

opens up the chance of a conversation with purpose.

就开启了有目的对话的机会。

Earlier in my career,

在我职业生涯的早期，

I worked for the deputy prime minister of New Zealand

我为新西兰副总理工作，

who practiced a version of this technique.

他使用了这种技能。

New Zealand's electoral system is designed for unlikely friendships,

新西兰的选举制度使得各党派之间， 不可能存在友好关系，

coalitions, alliances,

不同政党的联合、结盟、 签署谅解备忘录，

memoranda of understanding are almost inevitable.

都是不可避免的。

新西兰政府几乎囊括了所有党派,

And this particular government set-up had some of almost everything --

small government conservatives, liberals,

包括保守派、自由派、

the Indigenous people's party, the Green Party.

原住民党和绿党。

最近我请教他：

And I recently asked him,

what does it take to bring a group like that together

“如何把这样一个群体聚集在一起，

but hold them together?

并紧密的团结起来？”

He said, "Someone, you, has to take responsibility

他说：“必须有人时刻提醒他们，

for reminding them of their shared purpose:

政府存在的共同目标，

caring for people.”

就是关心人民”。

If we are more focused on what makes us different than the same,

如果我们更多关注的是彼此的区别， 而不是相同点，

then every debate is a fight.

那么每场辩论，都会是一场战争。

If we put our challenges and our problems before us,

如果我们在辩论之前， 先把挑战和问题摆在前面，

then every potential ally becomes an adversary.

那么每一个潜在的盟友都会变成敌人。

But as my dad packed his bags for the three flights, 25 hours,

在我父亲乘坐了三趟航班， 共持续25个小时，

10,000 miles back to Australia,

跨越了10000英里返回到澳大利亚，

he was also packing a collection of new perspectives,

他也带回了许多新的视角，

a new way of navigating conversations,

学会了引导谈话的新方式，

and a whole set of new stories and experiences to share.

收获了一系列的新故事和经验。

But he was also leaving those behind

但是他将这些技巧和心得

with everyone that he'd interacted with.

留给了与他对话的所有人。

We love unlikely friendships when they look like this.

我们喜欢像这样意外发生的友谊，

We've just forgotten how to make them.

我们只是忘了如何 成就意外的友谊。

And amid the cacophony of cable news

在嘈杂的新闻电视台、

and the awkwardness of family dinners,

尴尬的家庭聚餐、

and the hostility of corporate meetings,

敌意满满的公司会议中，

each of us has this --

我们中的每个人，

the opportunity to walk into every encounter,

都有机会在展开每一次谈话时，

like my dad walked off that plane,

就像我父亲在那次旅行中一样，

to choose curiosity over clash,

选择好奇，而不是冲突，

to expect development of your ideas through discussion

通过讨论使想法进步，

and to anchor in common purpose.

找到交谈的共同目标。

That's what really world-class persuaders do

这就是真正世界级谈判者所做的，

to build constructive conversations

开启建设性的对话，

and move them forward.

并不断向前推动。

It's how our world will move forward too.

我们的世界也将如此像前发展。

Thank you.

谢谢。