We can start winning the war against cancer | Adam de la Zerda

62,290 views ・ 2016-10-26

TED


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翻译人员: Conway Ye 校对人员: QI YU
00:12
"We're declaring war against cancer,
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“我们已经和癌症宣战了,
00:14
and we will win this war by 2015."
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而且我们能在2015年前赢得这场战争。”
00:18
This is what the US Congress and the National Cancer Institute declared
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这是美国国会和国家癌症协会
00:22
just a few years ago, in 2003.
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在几年前,即2003年宣布的。
00:25
Now, I don't know about you, but I don't buy that.
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现在,我不知道你们对这事儿怎么看, 但是我并不相信。
00:28
I don't think we quite won this war yet,
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我不认为我们已经赢得这场战争了,
00:30
and I don't think anyone here will question that.
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而且我不认为在场的人会质疑我。
00:33
Now, I will argue that a primary reason
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现在我会告诉你们一个最基本的原因,
00:36
why we're not winning this war against cancer
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为什么我们不会赢得和癌症的战争:
00:38
is because we're fighting blindly.
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是因为我们在盲目地斗争。
00:40
I'm going to start by sharing with you a story about a good friend of mine.
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我要给你们分享一个我的好朋友的故事。
00:44
His name is Ehud,
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他的名字是埃胡德,
00:45
and a few years ago, Ehud was diagnosed with brain cancer.
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几年前,他被诊断出有脑癌。
00:48
And not just any type of brain cancer:
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而且还不是普通的脑癌,
00:50
he was diagnosed with one of the most deadly forms of brain cancer.
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他被诊断出患有最致命的一种脑癌。
00:53
In fact, it was so deadly
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事实上,这个癌症致命到
00:55
that the doctors told him that they only have 12 months,
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医生告诉他,他只有12个月,
00:57
and during those 12 months, they have to find a treatment.
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在这个12个月里, 他们必须要找到一种治疗方法。
01:01
They have to find a cure,
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他们必须要找到一种有效的治疗方法,
01:02
and if they cannot find a cure, he will die.
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而且如果找不到,他将会死亡。
01:05
Now, the good news, they said,
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现在,好消息是,他们说,
01:07
is that there are tons of different treatments to choose from,
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有无数种治疗方法可以选择,
01:10
but the bad news is
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而坏消息是,
01:11
that in order for them to tell if a treatment is even working or not,
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如果要检测一种治疗方法是否有效,
01:15
well, that takes them about three months or so.
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好吧,需要大约三个月的时间。
01:17
So they cannot try that many things.
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所以他们尝试不了几种方法。
01:19
Well, Ehud is now going into his first treatment,
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现在, 埃胡德正在进行他的第一次治疗,
01:23
and during that first treatment, just a few days into that treatment,
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在第一次治疗开始几天的时候,
01:26
I'm meeting with him, and he tells me, "Adam, I think this is working.
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我见到他,他告诉我说 “亚当,我觉得疗程有效果。
01:29
I think we really lucked out here. Something is happening."
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我觉得我们挺走运的。 事情正在改变。”
01:32
And I ask him, "Really? How do you know that, Ehud?"
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我问他: “真的吗,你是怎么知道,埃胡德?”
01:35
And he says, "Well, I feel so terrible inside.
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他说, “因为,我感觉身体十分难受。
01:37
Something's gotta be working up there.
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一定有什么东西在里面起作用,
01:39
It just has to."
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一定是的。”
01:40
Well, unfortunately, three months later, we got the news, it didn't work.
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然而,不幸的是,三个月后, 我们得到消息,治疗没有效果。
01:45
And so Ehud goes into his second treatment.
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所以埃胡德尝试第二种治疗方法。
01:47
And again, the same story.
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跟第一次一样,
01:48
"It feels so bad, something's gotta be working there."
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他说“我感觉很糟, 一定有什么东西在里面起作用。”
01:51
And then three months later, again we get bad news.
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三个月后,我们又接到了坏消息。
01:54
Ehud is going into his third treatment, and then his fourth treatment.
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然后埃胡德接受了第三次治疗,第四次治疗,
01:58
And then, as predicted, Ehud dies.
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然后正如预测的一样,埃胡德去世了。
02:01
Now, when someone really close to you is going through such a huge struggle,
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当你身边亲近的人经受这种巨大的折磨时,
02:06
you get really swamped with emotions.
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你会感觉尤其强烈。
02:08
A lot of things are going through your head.
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你的脑海中会充斥着各种想法。
02:10
For me, it was mostly outrage.
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对于我来说, 我感觉很愤怒。
02:11
I was just outraged that, how come this is the best that we can offer?
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我愤怒的是, 难道这就是我们能为病人提供的最好的办法吗?
02:16
And I started looking more and more into this.
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然后我开始深入地研究这件事,
02:18
As it turns out, this is not just the best that doctors could offer Ehud.
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我发现,这并不是是医生能够 提供给埃胡德最好的办法,
02:22
It's not just the best doctors could offer patients with brain cancer generally.
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而且这也不是医生能够提供给一般 脑癌病人最好的办法。
02:26
We're actually not doing that well all across the board with cancer.
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我们在治疗癌症这件事情上并没有做得很好。
02:30
I picked up one of those statistics,
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我挑选了一些统计数据,
02:32
and I'm sure some of you have seen those statistics before.
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我相信你们可能有人曾经 看过这些数据。
02:34
This is going to show you here how many patients actually died of cancer,
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这组数据统计了死于癌症的病人数量,
02:38
in this case females in the United States,
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确切的说是有多少美国女性,
02:40
ever since the 1930s.
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自从20世纪30年代以来死于癌症。
02:41
You'll notice that there aren't that many things that have changed.
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你会发现从那儿以来事情并没有什么大的改变。
02:44
It's still a huge issue.
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这依旧是一个巨大的问题。
02:46
You'll see a few changes, though.
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当然,你能看到一些改变,
02:48
You'll see lung cancer, for example, on the rise.
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你会发现,比如,肺癌的比例在升高。
02:50
Thank you, cigarettes.
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拜香烟所赐。
02:52
And you'll also see that, for example, stomach cancer
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你还能看到,比如说,胃癌,
02:54
once used to be one of the biggest killers of all cancers,
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曾经癌症中最大的杀手之一,
02:58
is essentially eliminated.
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已经几乎绝迹了。
03:00
Now, why is that? Anyone knows, by the way?
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好,为什么会这样呢? 有人知道吗?
03:02
Why is it that humanity is no longer struck by stomach cancer?
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为什么人类不再受胃癌折磨?
03:05
What was the huge, huge medical technology breakthrough
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是哪个巨大的医疗技术突破
03:10
that came to our world that saved humanity from stomach cancer?
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于胃癌中拯救了人类?
03:15
Was it maybe a new drug, or a better diagnostic?
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是一种新药或者 一种更好的诊断吗?
03:19
You guys are right, yeah.
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你们答对啦!(笑)
03:20
It's the invention of the refrigerator,
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是因为我们发明的了冰箱,
03:23
and the fact that we're no longer eating spoiled meats.
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于是我们不再吃变质的食物。
03:25
So the best thing that happened to us so far
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所以至今,
03:28
in the medical arena in cancer research
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我们在癌症研究的医疗领域取得的最大的成就,
03:29
is the fact that the refrigerator was invented.
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是冰箱的发明。
03:32
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
03:33
And so -- yeah, I know.
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所以,是的。
03:34
We're not doing so well here.
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我们并没有做的很好。
03:36
I don't want to miniaturize the progress
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我不想贬低
我们在癌症研究方面取得的进步。
03:38
and everything that's been done in cancer research.
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03:41
Look, there is like 50-plus years of good cancer research
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你看, 我们做了五十多年的癌症研究,
03:45
that discovered major, major things that taught us about cancer.
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发现了有关癌症的很多重要的知识。
03:48
But all that said,
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这些年研究的结果就是,
03:50
we have a lot of heavy lifting to still do ahead of us.
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关于治疗癌症我们依然任重道远。
03:54
Again, I will argue that the primary reason why this is the case,
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我认为,之所以我们进展缓慢,
03:58
why we have not done that remarkably well,
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之所以我们并没有取得突破性的成绩
04:00
is really we're fighting blindly here.
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是因为我们一直在盲目地斗争。
04:01
And this is where medical imaging comes in.
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所以我们发明了医疗影像,
04:04
This is where my own work comes in.
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这就是我的工作成果。
04:06
And so to give you a sense of the best medical imaging
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下面我给大家演示一下
04:09
that's offered today to brain cancer patients,
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当前我们能给脑癌患者提供的最好的医疗影像,
04:11
or actually generally to all cancer patients,
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或者应该说是给所以癌症患者提供的最好的医疗影像
04:13
take a look at this PET scan right here.
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看一看这个PET扫描,
04:15
Let's see. There we go.
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04:17
So this is a PET/CT scan,
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好,这是一个PET/CT扫描,
04:19
and what you'll see in this PET/CT scan
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你能从这个PET/CT扫描中看到什么呢?
04:21
is the CT scan will show you where the bones are,
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CT扫描能够告诉你骨头的位置,
04:25
and the PET scan will show you where tumors are.
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PET扫描则能告诉你肿瘤的位置。
04:27
Now, what you can see here
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现在,你可以看到,
04:30
is essentially a sugar molecule
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一个糖分子
04:32
that was added a small little tag
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被添加了一个小小的标签,
04:34
that is signaling to us outside of the body,
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在给我们发信号,
04:36
"Hey, I'm here."
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“嗨,我在这。”
04:37
And those sugar molecules are injected into these patients by the billions,
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上十亿那样的糖分子被 注射进病人体内,
04:41
and they're going all over the body
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并散布至全身,
04:43
looking for cells that are hungry for sugar.
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寻找需要糖分的细胞。
04:46
You'll see that the heart, for example, lights up there.
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你会看到,比如说, 心脏部位是亮的,
04:49
That's because the heart needs a lot of sugar.
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那是因为心脏需要很多糖。
04:51
You'll also see that the bladder lights up there.
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你还会看到膀胱也是亮的。
04:53
That's because the bladder is the thing that's clearing
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那是因为膀胱负责清除
04:56
the sugar away from our body.
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体内的糖分。
04:58
And then you'll see a few other hot spots,
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然后你会发现其他亮点,
05:00
and these are in fact the tumors.
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这些事实上都是肿瘤。
05:01
Now, this is a really a wonderful technology.
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这真的是一个很棒的科技。
05:03
For the first time it allowed us to look into someone's body
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这是第一次,我们能够观察身体内部,
05:07
without picking up each and every one of the cells
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不需要取出细胞,
05:09
and putting them under the microscope,
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并把它们放在显微镜下来观察,
05:11
but in a noninvasive way allowing us to look into someone's body
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而是无侵入性地观察人体内部,
05:14
and ask, "Hey, has the cancer metastasized?
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并问,“嘿,癌症有扩散吗?
05:16
Where is it?"
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它在哪里?”
05:17
And the PET scans here are showing you very clearly
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PET扫描很清晰的告诉我们
05:20
where are these hot spots, where is the tumor.
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亮点在哪里, 肿瘤在哪里。
05:23
So as miraculous as this might seem,
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这看起来很奇妙,
05:26
unfortunately, well, it's not that great.
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然而,这并没有那么棒。
05:30
You see, those small little hot spots there.
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那些小小的亮点,
05:33
Can anyone guess how many cancer cells are in any one of these tumors?
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有人能猜猜在其中一个肿瘤里 有多少癌细胞吗?
05:38
So it's about 100 million cancer cells,
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大概有1亿个癌细胞,
05:40
and let me make sure that this number sunk in.
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让我解释一下这个数字。
05:43
In each and every one of these small little blips
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每一个小小的亮点,
05:46
that you're seeing on the image,
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你能在图片中看到的,
05:47
there needs to be at least 100 million cancer cells
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都需要至少1亿个癌细胞
05:51
in order for it to be detected.
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才能被检测到。
05:53
Now, if that seemed to you like a very large number,
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如果那对你来说是个很大的数字,
05:55
it is a very large number.
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没错,那就是一个很大的数字。
05:58
This is in fact an incredibly large number,
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事实上, 这就是一个非常巨大的数字,
06:00
because what we really need in order to pick up something early enough
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我们需要的是能够尽早发现一些东西,
并能够采取有意义的行动,
06:04
to do something about it, to do something meaningful about it,
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我们需要能发现有一千个癌细胞大小的肿瘤,
06:07
well, we need to pick up tumors that are a thousand cells in size,
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理想来说, 我们需要能发现只有很少癌细胞的肿瘤,
06:10
and ideally just a handful of cells in size.
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所以我们很明显离这个目标还很远。
06:12
So we're clearly pretty far away from this.
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所以我们要做一个小实验。
06:14
So we're going to play a little experiment here.
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06:16
I'm going to ask each of you to now play and imagine
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我要你们每一个人扮演和想象
06:19
that you are brain surgeons.
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你是一个脑部手术医师。
06:21
And you guys are now at an operating room,
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你们现在在一间手术室里,
06:25
and there's a patient in front of you,
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面前有一个病人,
06:27
and your task is to make sure that the tumor is out.
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你的任务就是保证清除肿瘤。
06:31
So you're looking down at the patient,
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所以你低头看着病人,
06:34
the skin and the skull have already been removed,
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皮肤和头骨都已经被拆除了,
06:37
so you're looking at the brain.
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所以你正在看着大脑。
06:38
And all you know about this patient
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你知道的所有关于这个病人的,
06:40
is that there's a tumor about the size of a golf ball or so
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就是有一个大概高尔夫球大小的肿瘤
06:43
in the right frontal lobe of this person's brain.
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在这个病人的右额叶。
06:46
And that's more or less it.
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情景大概就是这样。
06:47
So you're looking down, and unfortunately everything looks the same,
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所以你往下看,不幸的是, 所有东西都看起来是一样的,
06:50
because brain cancer tissue and healthy brain tissue
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因为脑癌组织和健康的脑组织
06:53
really just look the same.
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看起来是一样的。
06:55
And so you're going in with your thumb,
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所以你要用你的拇指,
06:57
and you start to press a little bit on the brain,
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开始轻轻地在大脑上按压,
06:59
because tumors tend to be a little harder, stiffer,
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因为肿瘤相对更硬,
07:02
and so you go in and go a little bit like this and say,
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所以你一遍一遍做这样的事情,
07:04
"It seems like the tumor is right there."
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“看起来肿瘤在这。”
07:06
Then you take out your knife and start cutting the tumor
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然后你拿出刀,开始切割肿瘤,
07:09
piece by piece by piece.
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一块一块地,
07:10
And as you're taking the tumor out,
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当你正在摘除肿瘤的时候,
07:12
then you're getting to a stage where you think,
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然后你会想,
07:14
"Alright, I'm done. I took out everything."
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“好,我把所有的肿瘤都拿出来了。”
07:16
And at this stage, if that's --
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到了这个时候,
07:18
so far everything sounded, like, pretty crazy --
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一切看起来都有点疯狂,
07:21
you're now about to face the most challenging decision of your life here.
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你现在要面临人生中最具挑战的决定,
07:24
Because now you need to decide,
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因为你要决定:
07:26
should I stop here and let this patient go,
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我应该停下,让病人出院吗?
07:29
risking that there might be some leftover cancer cells behind
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有可能还有一些癌细胞我并没有清除掉
07:32
that I just couldn't see,
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因为我看不出来。
07:33
or should I take away some extra margins,
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或者我应该多摘除一些边缘组织,
07:36
typically about an inch or so around the tumor
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比如把肿瘤边缘一英寸的区域都清除掉,
07:39
just to be sure that I removed everything?
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以保证移除了所有肿瘤?
07:43
So this is not a simple decision to make,
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所以这不是一个简单的决定,
07:47
and unfortunately this is the decision
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而且不幸的是,这是一个
07:49
that brain cancer surgeons have to take every single day
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脑癌手术医师每一场手术都要做的决定,
07:53
as they're seeing their patients.
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07:55
And so I remember talking to a few friends of mine in the lab,
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所以我记得我跟 我的几个朋友在实验室聊天,
07:58
and we say, "Boy, there's got to be a better way."
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我们说 “伙计们,我们必须要有更好的方式。”
08:00
But not just like you tell a friend that there's got to be a better way.
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这不是说说而已
08:04
There's just got to be a better way here.
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而是,真的,我们必须要有一个更好的方式。
08:06
This is just incredible.
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这太不可思议了。
08:07
And so we looked back.
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所以我们回头看,
08:09
Remember those PET scans I told you about, the sugar and so on.
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想起了我告诉你们的那个PET扫描, 糖分子啊等等。
08:12
We said, hey, how about instead of using sugar molecules,
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我们说,嘿,如果不用糖分子,
08:15
let's maybe take tiny, tiny little particles made of gold,
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我们可以用很小很小的由金构成的粒子,
08:18
and let's program them with some interesting chemistry around them.
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然后在它们旁边附上一些 有趣的化学物质,
08:21
Let's program them to look for cancer cells.
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让它们去寻找癌细胞。
08:24
And then we will inject these gold particles
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然后我们会注射这些金粒子,
08:26
into these patients by the billions again,
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同样以上十亿的数量注入病人体内,
08:28
and we'll have them go all over the body,
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让它们散布全身,
08:30
and just like secret agents, if you will,
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你可以把他们想象成秘密特工,
08:32
go and walk by every single cell in our body
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潜伏在我们体内的每一个细胞,
08:35
and knock on the door of that cell,
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并敲开细胞的门,
08:37
and ask, "Are you a cancer cell or are you a healthy cell?
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并问: “你是一个癌细胞,还是健康的细胞?”
如果你是一个健康的细胞,那就继续去敲下一家门,
08:40
If you're a healthy cell, we're moving on.
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如果你是一个癌细胞, 我们就潜入进去,并发出亮光,
08:42
If you're a cancer cell, we're sticking in and shining out
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08:44
and telling us, "Hey, look at me, I'm here."
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给出信号说, “嘿,看看我,我在这。”
08:47
And they'll do it through some interesting cameras
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他们可以通过一些特殊的摄像头来完成这些任务
08:49
that we developed in the lab.
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(我们在实验室里研发出来的)
08:50
And once we see that, maybe we can guide brain cancer surgeons
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一旦我们可以看到癌细胞, 我们就可以指导脑癌手术医师,
08:53
towards taking only the tumor and leaving the healthy brain alone.
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只摘除肿瘤,留下健康的脑细胞。
08:57
And so we've tested that, and boy, this works well.
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所以我们尝试了这个办法, 它的运作很成功。
09:00
So I'm going to show you an example now.
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我现在要给你们展示一个实验,
09:02
What you're looking at here
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你现在看到的,
09:04
is an image of a mouse's brain,
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是一张老鼠大脑的照片,
09:08
and we've implanted into this mouse's brain
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我们已经在这只老鼠的大脑里,
09:11
a small little tumor.
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种植了一个小肿瘤。
09:13
And so this tumor is now growing in this mouse's brain,
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所以这个肿瘤现在正在老鼠大脑里扩散,
09:15
and then we've taken a doctor and asked the doctor
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我们已经请求过一个医生,
09:18
to please operate on the mouse as if that was a patient,
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让他来这只“病人”老鼠动手术,
09:21
and take out piece by piece out of the tumor.
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一片一片地取出肿瘤。
09:23
And while he's doing that,
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当他在做这个的时候,
09:25
we're going to take images to see where the gold particles are.
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我们准备给金粒子的位置拍照,
09:28
And so we're going to first start
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所以首先我们要
09:30
by injecting these gold particles into this mouse,
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给这只老鼠注射金粒子,
09:32
and we're going to see right here at the very left there
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所以我们可以看到,在最左边,
09:35
that image at the bottom
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底部的那张图片,
09:36
is the image that shows where the gold particles are.
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展示金粒子的位置,
09:39
The nice thing is that these gold particles
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金粒子的好处就是
09:41
actually made it all the way to the tumor,
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它们能够成功找到肿瘤,
09:43
and then they shine out and tell us, "Hey, we're here. Here's the tumor."
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发光,并告诉我们 “嘿,我们在这儿,肿瘤在这儿。”
09:47
So now we can see the tumor,
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所以我们可以看到肿瘤,
09:48
but we're not showing this to the doctor yet.
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但是我们还没有把这个展示给医生。
09:50
We're asking the doctor, now please start cutting away the tumor,
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我们要求医生开始切除肿瘤,
09:53
and you'll see here the doctor just took the first quadrant of the tumor
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你能看到四分之一的肿瘤 已经被医生摘除了,
你已经看不到四分之一的肿瘤了。
09:57
and you see that first quadrant is now missing.
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医生然后移除了第二个和 第三个四分之一,
09:59
The doctor then took the second quadrant, the third,
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10:01
and now it appears to be everything.
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现在看起来肿瘤已经被清除干净了,
10:03
And so at this stage, the doctor came back to us and said,
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到了这个阶段, 医生告诉我们说:
“好了,我做完了。 现在你们要我干什么?
10:06
"Alright, I'm done. What do you want me to do?
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10:08
Should I keep things as they are
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留下剩下的不动,
10:10
or do you want me to take some extra margins around?"
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还是要我摘除多余的边缘?“
10:12
And then we said, "Well, hang on."
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然后我们说:”等等。“
10:14
We told the doctor, "You've missed those two spots,
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我们告诉医生 “你已经遗漏了这两处,
10:16
so rather than taking huge margins around,
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与其要切除大量的边缘,
10:18
only take out those tiny little areas.
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还不如把这些小型的部分切除。
10:20
Take them out, and then let's take a look."
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把它们摘除,然后我们再看看。“
10:22
And so the doctor took them away, and lo and behold,
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然后医生把它们摘除了,
10:25
the cancer is now completely gone.
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癌细胞现在是完全的没了。
10:27
Now, the important thing
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现在,重要的不仅仅是
10:29
is that it's not just that the cancer is completely gone
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癌症细胞已经从这个人或者 是老鼠的大脑里摘除了,
10:31
from this person's brain,
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10:33
or from this mouse's brain.
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10:35
The most important thing
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最重要的是,
10:36
is that we did not have to take huge amounts of healthy brain
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我不需要在手术过程中摘除大量的健康脑细胞,
10:39
in the process.
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10:40
And so now we can actually imagine a world
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所以现在我们可以想象一个世界,
10:42
where doctors and surgeons, as they take away a tumor,
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医生和手术医师在摘除肿瘤的时候,
10:46
they actually know what to take out,
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他们知道什么是应该摘除了,
他们不再需要用拇指来猜测。
10:48
and they no longer have to guess with their thumb.
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10:51
Now, here's why it's extremely important to take those tiny little leftover tumors.
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现在,这是为什么取出那些 剩余少量的肿瘤那么重要,
10:55
Those leftover tumors, even if it's just a handful of cells,
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那些剩下的肿瘤, 即使只有一点点细胞,
它们会复发,
10:58
they will grow to recur the tumor,
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重新长成肿瘤。
11:01
for the tumor to come back.
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11:03
In fact, the reason why 80 to 90 percent
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事实上, 这就是为什么80%到90%的
11:05
of those brain cancer surgeries ultimately fail
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脑癌手术医师最终都会失败,
11:07
is because of those small little extra margins that were left positive,
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是因为那些我们乐观地 留下少量的边缘物质,
11:11
those small little leftover tumors that were left there.
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那些我们遗漏的没有能够清除的少量剩余物质。
11:15
So this is clearly very nice,
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所以,这当然非常好。
11:17
but what I really want to share with you is where I think we're heading from here.
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然而我最想分享给你们的是 由此开始,我们还可以做什么
11:21
And so in my lab at Stanford,
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在我的斯坦福实验室,
11:23
my students and I are asking, what should we be working on now?
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我和我的学生都在想:接下来我们可以做什么?
11:29
And I think where medical imaging is heading to
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我认为医疗影像的未来
11:32
is the ability to look into the human body
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是能够探查人体的内部,
11:34
and actually see each and every one of these cells separately.
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并能够分别查看每一个细胞。
11:39
The ability like this would allow us
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像这样的能力,能够让我们
11:40
to actually pick up tumors way, way earlier in the process,
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在早期移除肿瘤,
11:43
way before it's 100 million cells inside, so we can actually do something about it.
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远远在达到1亿个癌细胞之前, 我们就可以采取行动。
11:48
An ability to see each and every one of the cells might also allow us
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一种能够查看单个细胞的能力, 能够让我们
11:51
to ask insightful questions.
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提出更深刻的问题。
11:53
So in the lab, we are now getting to a point
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所以在实验室里, 我们正在尝试,
11:55
where we can actually start asking these cancer cells real questions,
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给癌细胞提出更具体的问题,
11:58
like, for example, are you responding to the treatment we are giving you or not?
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比如说,我们给你的治疗有效果吗?
如果没有效果, 我们就会知道要立即停止治疗
12:02
So if you're not responding, we'll know to stop the treatment right away,
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12:05
days into the treatment, not three months.
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而不是要等到三个月以后
12:08
And so also for patients like Ehud
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像埃胡德这样的病人,
12:10
that are going through these nasty, nasty chemotherapy drugs,
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正在经受这些残酷治疗的病人
12:15
for them not to suffer
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当药物并不能帮助他们的时候
12:16
through those horrendous side effects of the drugs
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12:19
when the drugs are in fact not even helping them.
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让他们免受这些可怕的药物副作用,
12:22
So to be frank here,
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12:24
we're pretty far away from winning the war against cancer,
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但是坦白来说,
我们距离赢得与癌症的斗争还很远,
12:28
just to be realistic.
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这就是现实。
12:29
But at least I am hopeful
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但是,至少我是乐观的,
12:31
that we should be able to fight this war with better medical imaging techniques
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我们能够用更好的医疗影像来做斗争,
12:35
in the way that is not blind.
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那样,我们就不会是在盲目斗争了。
12:37
Thank you.
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谢谢。
12:38
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
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