Richard Ledgett: The NSA responds to Edward Snowden's TED Talk

Prevodilac: Ivana Korom Lektor: Mile Živković

Chris Anderson: We had Edward Snowden here

Kris Anderson: Edvard Snouden je bio ovde

a couple days ago,

pre par dana,

and this is response time.

i sad je vreme za odgovor.

And several of you have written to me

Nekoliko vas mi je poslalo pitanja

with questions to ask our guest here from the NSA.

za našeg gosta iz NSA.

So Richard Ledgett is the 15th deputy director

Ričard Ledžet je 15. zamenik direktora

of the National Security Agency,

agencije za državnu bezbednost,

and he's a senior civilian officer there,

i viši civilni službenik,

acts as its chief operating officer,

radi kao izvršni rukovodilac,

guiding strategies, setting internal policies,

vodi strategije, postavlja interna pravila

and serving as the principal advisor to the director.

i glavni je savetnik direktora.

And all being well,

I ako je sve u redu,

welcome, Rick Ledgett, to TED.

poželimo Riku Ledžetu dobrodošlicu na TED.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Richard Ledgett: I'm really thankful for the opportunity to talk to folks here.

Ričard Ledžet: Hvala vam na prilici da vam se obratim.

I look forward to the conversation,

Radujem se razgovoru,

so thanks for arranging for that.

hvala što ste ovo organizovali.

CA: Thank you, Rick.

KA: Hvala Vama, Rik.

We appreciate you joining us.

Cenimo to što ste nam se pridružili.

It's certainly quite a strong statement

Volja NSA da se javi

that the NSA is willing to reach out

i pokaže otvorenost ovde

and show a more open face here.

ostavlja snažan utisak.

You saw, I think,

Mislim da ste videli

the talk and interview that Edward Snowden

govor i intervju sa Edvardom Snoudenom

gave here a couple days ago.

od pre par dana.

What did you make of it?

Šta mislite o tom govoru?

RL: So I think it was interesting.

RL: Mislim da je bio zanimljiv.

We didn't realize that he was going to show up there,

Nismo znali da će se on pojaviti,

so kudos to you guys for arranging

bravo za vas što ste priredili

a nice surprise like that.

jedno tako lepo iznenađenje.

I think that, like a lot of the things

Kao i mnoge stvari

that have come out since Mr. Snowden

koje su izašle na videlo od kad je gospodin Snouden

started disclosing classified information,

počeo da objavljuje poverljive informacije,

there were some kernels of truth in there,

mislim da je tu bilo dosta istinitih delova,

but a lot of extrapolations and half-truths in there,

ali i dosta zaključaka i poluistina,

and I'm interested in helping to address those.

i želim da pomognem u njihovom razjašnjavanju.

I think this is a really important conversation

Mislim da je ovaj razgovor

that we're having in the United States

koji vodimo u SAD-u i internacionalno

and internationally,

veoma važan,

and I think it is important and of import,

mislim da je od značaja,

and so given that, we need to have that be

i pošto je tako,

on mora da bude zasnovan na činjenicama,

a fact-based conversation,

and we want to help make that happen.

a mi želimo u tome da pomognemo.

CA: So the question that a lot of people have here is,

KA: Ono što se mnogi ovde pitaju je,

what do you make of Snowden's motivations

šta mislite o Snoudenovim motivima

for doing what he did,

da uradi to što je uradio,

and did he have an alternative way that he could have gone?

i da li je mogao da ide nekim drugim putem?

RL: He absolutely did

RL: Apsolutno je imao drugačije puteve

have alternative ways that he could have gone,

kojima je mogao krenuti,

and I actually think that characterizing him

i mislim da opisivanje njega

as a whistleblower

kao uzbunjivača

actually hurts legitimate whistleblowing activities.

šteti legitimnim uzbunjivačkim aktivnostima.

So what if somebody who works in the NSA --

Šta ako neko ko radi za NSA -

and there are over 35,000 people who do.

a ima 35.000 zaposlenih.

They're all great citizens.

Oni su svi dobri građani.

They're just like your husbands, fathers, sisters,

Oni su kao vaši muževi, očevi, sestre,

brothers, neighbors, nephews, friends and relatives,

braća, komšije, sestrići, prijatelji, rođaci,

all of whom are interested in doing the right thing

i svi žele da urade ispravnu stvar

for their country

za svoju zemlju

and for our allies internationally,

i za naše međunarodne saveznike,

and so there are a variety of venues to address

tako da postoji mnoštvo načina

if folks have a concern.

da se rešavaju brige ako postoje.

First off, there's their supervisor,

Prvo, tu je njihov nadređeni,

and up through the supervisory chain

i lanac nadređenih

within their organization.

unutar njihove organizacije.

If folks aren't comfortable with that,

Ako ljudima to ne odgovara,

there are a number of inspectors general.

postoji mnoštvo nadzornih organa.

In the case of Mr. Snowden, he had the option

U ovom slučaju, gospodin Snouden

of the NSA inspector general,

je imao opciju nadzornog organa NSA,

the Navy inspector general,

nadzornog organa mornarice,

the Pacific Command inspector general,

nadzornog organa pacifičke komande,

the Department of Defense inspector general,

Ministarstva odbrane,

and the intelligence community inspector general,

kao i obaveštajne zajednice,

any of whom would have both kept his concerns in classified channels

i svaki od njih bi njegovu zabrinutost zadržao u poverljivim kanalima

and been happy to address them.

i rado bi se njima pozabavio.

(CA and RL speaking at once)

(KA i RL govore uglas)

He had the option to go to congressional committees,

Imao je opciju da se obrati kongresnom komitetu,

and there are mechanisms to do that that are in place,

postoje mehanizmi za to,

and so he didn't do any of those things.

a on ništa od toga nije uradio.

CA: Now, you had said that

KA: Rekli ste da je Ed Snouden

Ed Snowden had other avenues

imao drugih načina

for raising his concerns.

da izrazi svoju zabrinutost.

The comeback on that is a couple of things:

Postoji nekoliko odgovora na to:

one, that he certainly believes that as a contractor,

prvo, on veruje da kao radnik po ugovoru

the avenues that would have been available to him as an employee weren't available,

nije imao iste načine koje imaju redovni zaposleni,

two, there's a track record of other whistleblowers,

drugo, zna se da su drugi uzbunjivači

like [Thomas Andrews Drake] being treated

kao što je Tomas Endrus Drejk,

pretty harshly, by some views,

po nekim mišljenjima, tretirani prilično oštro,

and thirdly, what he was taking on

i treće, on se nije bavio

was not one specific flaw that he'd discovered,

jednom određenom manom koju je otkrio,

but programs that had been approved

nego programima koje su odobrile

by all three branches of government.

sve tri grane vlade.

I mean, in that circumstance,

U takvim okolnostima,

couldn't you argue that what he did

zar ne mislite da je ono što je uradio

was reasonable?

bilo razumno?

RL: No, I don't agree with that.

RL: Ne, ne slažem se s tim.

I think that the —

Mislim da -

sorry, I'm getting feedback

izvinite, čujem eho

through the microphone there —

kroz mikrofon -

the actions that he took were inappropriate

njegovi postupci nisu bili primereni

because of the fact that he put people's lives at risk,

jer je ugrozio živote ljudi,

basically, in the long run,

na duge staze,

and I know there's been a lot of talk

i znam da u javnosti,

in public by Mr. Snowden and some of the journalists

gospodin Snouden i neki novinari govore

that say that the things that have been disclosed

da stvari koje je razotkrio

have not put national security and people at risk,

nisu ugrozile državnu bezbednost i živote ljudi,

and that is categorically not true.

i kategorički tvrdim da to nije istina.

They actually do.

Ugrozile su.

I think there's also an amazing arrogance

Takođe mislim da postoji mnogo arogancije

to the idea that he knows better than

u ideji da on zna bolje

the framers of the Constitution

od onih koji su doneli Ustav

in how the government should be designed and work

o tome kako bi vlada trebalo da izgleda i radi

for separation of powers

na razdvajanju moći

and the fact that the executive and the legislative branch

i činjenice da izvršni i zakonodavni organak

have to work together and they have checks and balances on each other,

moraju da rade zajedno i proveravaju jedan drugog,

and then the judicial branch,

a potom i sudski ogranak

which oversees the entire process.

koji nadgleda ceo proces.

I think that's extremely arrogant on his part.

Mislim da je to veoma arogantno s njegove strane.

CA: Can you give a specific example

KA: Da li možete da date konkretan primer

of how he put people's lives at risk?

rizika kojima je izložio ljude?

RL: Yeah, sure.

RL: Da, naravno.

So the things that he's disclosed,

Ono što je otkrio,

the capabilities,

sposobnosti,

and the NSA is a capabilities-based organization,

a NSA je organizacija zasnovana na sposobnostima,

so when we have foreign intelligence targets,

pa kad su nam mete strane obaveštajne službe,

legitimate things of interest --

legitimne stvari od interesa -

like, terrorists is the iconic example,

teroristi su klasičan primer,

but it includes things like human traffickers,

ali i trgovci ljudima,

drug traffickers,

trgovci drogom,

people who are trying to build advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,

ljudi koji pokušavaju da naprave napredno i nuklearno oružje,

and build delivery systems for those,

i sisteme koji ih omogućavaju,

and nation-states who might be executing aggression against their immediate neighbors,

države koje ispoljavaju agresiju prema svojim susedima,

which you may have some visibility

možda imate nekog uvida

into some of that that's going on right now,

u neke od tih stvari koje se trenutno dešavaju,

the capabilities are applied

te sposobnosti se primenjuju

in very discrete and measured and controlled ways.

na veoma diskretne, precizne i kontrolisane načine.

So the unconstrained disclosure of those capabilities

I neometano otkrivanje tih sposobnosti

means that as adversaries see them

znači da kad ih protivnici vide

and recognize, "Hey, I might be vulnerable to this,"

i prepoznaju da mogu biti njima izloženi,

they move away from that,

oni će se povući,

and we have seen targets in terrorism,

i viđali smo teroriste

in the nation-state area,

u nekim državama,

in smugglers of various types, and other folks

ili razne krijumčare i druge,

who have, because of the disclosures,

koji su se, zbog tih otkrića,

moved away from our ability

povukli i mi više nismo u mogućnosti

to have insight into what they're doing.

da imamo uvid u ono što rade.

The net effect of that is that our people

Posledica toga je da su naši ljudi

who are overseas in dangerous places,

koji se nalaze na opasnim mestima,

whether they're diplomats or military,

bilo da su diplomate ili vojnici,

and our allies who are in similar situations,

ali i saveznici u sličnim situacijama,

are at greater risk because we don't see

izloženi većem riziku

the threats that are coming their way.

jer mi ne vidimo pretnje kojima su izloženi.

CA: So that's a general response saying that

KA: Dakle, to je opšti odgovor,

because of his revelations,

koji kaže da je zbog njegovih otkrića,

access that you had to certain types of information

vaš pristup određenim informacijama

has been shut down, has been closed down.

je prekinut, zatvoren.

But the concern is that the nature of that access

Ali zabrinutost je u vezi s tim što taj pristup

was not necessarily legitimate in the first place.

nije od samog početka bio legalan.

I mean, describe to us this Bullrun program

Mislim, objasnite nam program "Bullrun"

where it's alleged that the NSA

koji navodi da je NSA

specifically weakened security

namerno oslabila bezbednost

in order to get the type of access that you've spoken of.

da bi dobila upravo taj pristup o kom govorite.

RL: So there are, when our

RL: Kada naše legitimne mete stranih obaveštajnih službi,

legitimate foreign intelligence targets of the type that I described before,

koje sam ranije opisao,

use the global telecommunications system

koriste globalni telekomunikacioni sistem

as their communications methodology,

kao svoju metodologiju komunikacije,

and they do, because it's a great system,

a koriste ga, jer je to sjajan sistem,

it's the most complex system ever devised by man,

najsloženiji sistem koji je čovek napravio,

and it is a wonder,

i pravo čudo,

and lots of folks in the room there

i mnogi tu u prostoriji

are responsible for the creation

su zaslužni za njegovu izradu

and enhancement of that,

i razvoj,

and it's just a wonderful thing.

i to je sjajna stvar.

But it's also used by people who are

Ali koriste ga i ljudi

working against us and our allies.

koji rade protiv nas i naših saveznika.

And so if I'm going to pursue them,

I ako želim da ih nađem,

I need to have the capability

moram da imam mogućnost

to go after them,

da ih tražim,

and again, the controls are in

i ponavljam, kontrola je u tome

how I apply that capability,

kako primenjujem te mogućnosti,

not that I have the capability itself.

a ne u činjenici da imam mogućnost.

Otherwise, if we could make it so that

Inače, kad bismo mogli da napravimo

all the bad guys used one corner of the Internet,

da loši momci koriste jedan deo interneta,

we could have a domain, badguy.com.

imali bismo domen losmomak.com.

That would be awesome,

To bi bilo odlično

and we could just concentrate all our efforts there.

i mogli bismo da fokusiramo naše snage na to.

That's not how it works.

Ali to ne funkcioniše tako.

They're trying to hide

Oni pokušavaju da se sakriju

from the government's ability

od vladinih mogućnosti

to isolate and interdict their actions,

da izoluje i zabrani njihove postupke,

and so we have to swim in that same space.

pa moramo da se nalazimo u istom prostoru.

But I will tell you this.

Ali reći ću vam nešto.

So NSA has two missions.

NSA ima dve misije.

One is the Signals Intelligence mission

Jedna je "Signals Intelligence",

that we've unfortunately read so much about in the press.

o kojoj smo nažalost mnogo čitali u štampi.

The other one is the Information Assurance mission,

Druga je "Information Assurance",

which is to protect the national security systems of the United States,

koja štiti sisteme državne bezbednosti SAD-a,

and by that, that's things like

pod to spada

the communications that the president uses,

komunikacija predsednika,

the communications that control our nuclear weapons,

komunikacija koja štiti naše nuklearno naoružanje,

the communications that our military uses around the world,

komunikacija koju naša vojska koristi širom sveta,

and the communications that we use with our allies,

i komunikacija koju koristimo sa našim saveznicima,

and that some of our allies themselves use.

kao i neka koju oni sami koriste.

And so we make recommendations on standards to use,

Mi preporučujemo standarde za korišćenje,

and we use those same standards,

i mi koristimo iste te standarde

and so we are invested

i stalo nam je do toga

in making sure that those communications

da je ta komunikacija sigurna

are secure for their intended purposes.

u svojoj svrsi.

CA: But it sounds like what you're saying is that

KA: Ali zvuči kao da govorite

when it comes to the Internet at large,

da je, kad se radi o internetu,

any strategy is fair game

bilo kakva strategija fer

if it improves America's safety.

ako povećava sigurnost Amerike.

And I think this is partly where there is such

Mislim da delom zbog toga

a divide of opinion,

dolazi do tolikog razilaženja u mišljenjima,

that there's a lot of people in this room

mnogi u ovoj prostoriji i širom sveta

and around the world

who think very differently about the Internet.

drugačije razmišljaju o internetu.

They think of it as a momentous

Oni ga smatraju

važnim izumom čovečanstva,

invention of humanity,

kind of on a par with the Gutenberg press, for example.

na nivou Gutenbergove štamparske prese, na primer.

It's the bringer of knowledge to all.

On znanje čini dostupnim svima.

It's the connector of all.

Povezuje sve ljude.

And it's viewed in those sort of idealistic terms.

I posmatra se idealistički.

And from that lens,

U tom kontekstu,

what the NSA has done is equivalent to

postupci NSA jednaki su postupcima

the authorities back in Germany

nemačke vlade

inserting some device into every printing press

koja je u svaku štamparsku presu ubacivala uređaj

that would reveal which books people bought

koji je otkrivao koje knjige ljudi kupuju

and what they read.

i šta čitaju.

Can you understand that from that viewpoint,

Da li razumete da, iz te tačke gledišta,

it feels outrageous?

to deluje šokantno?

RL: I do understand that, and I actually share the view of the utility of the Internet,

RL: To razumem, i slažem se sa mišljenjem o korisnosti interneta,

and I would argue it's bigger than the Internet.

i rekao bih da je to i više od interneta.

It is a global telecommunications system.

To je globalni komunikacioni sistem.

The Internet is a big chunk of that, but there is a lot more.

Internet je veliki deo toga, ali postoji mnogo više.

And I think that people have legitimate concerns

Mislim da su ljudi s pravom zabrinuti

about the balance between transparency and secrecy.

za balans između transparentnosti i tajnosti.

That's sort of been couched as a balance

To se predstavlja

between privacy and national security.

kao balans između privatnosti i državne bezbednosti.

I don't think that's the right framing.

Mislim da to nije dobar okvir.

I think it really is transparency and secrecy.

Mislim da se zaista radi o transparentnosti i tajnosti.

And so that's the national and international conversation that we're having,

To je državni i međunarodni razgovor

and we want to participate in that, and want

u kom želimo da učestvujemo

people to participate in it in an informed way.

i želimo da ljudi učestvuju sa pravim informacijama.

So there are things,

Postoje stvari,

let me talk there a little bit more,

dozvolite da kažem više,

there are things that we need to be transparent about:

u vezi s kojima moramo biti transparentni:

our authorities, our processes,

naše nadležnosti, naši procesi,

our oversight, who we are.

naše greške, naš identitet.

We, NSA, have not done a good job of that,

Mi, NSA, nismo to dobro radili,

and I think that's part of the reason

i mislim da je to deo razloga

that this has been so revelational

što je ovo bilo tako razotkrivajuće

and so sensational in the media.

i tako senzacionalno u medijima.

Nobody knew who we were. We were the No Such Agency, the Never Say Anything.

Niko nije znao ko smo. Bili smo Nikakva Stvarna Agencija,

Nemi Smo Apsolutno.

There's takeoffs of our logo

Postoje parodije našeg logoa, orao sa slušalicama.

of an eagle with headphones on around it.

And so that's the public characterization.

Tako nas javnost doživljava.

And so we need to be more transparent about those things.

Moramo da budemo transparentniji u vezi sa tim stvarima.

What we don't need to be transparent about,

Ono što ne moramo da otkrivamo,

because it's bad for the U.S.,

jer je loše po SAD,

it's bad for all those other countries that we work with

kao i za sve druge države s kojima radimo,

and that we help provide information

i kojima pomažemo davanjem informacija

that helps them secure themselves

koje im pomažu da zaštite

and their people,

sebe i svoj narod,

it's bad to expose operations and capabilities

loše je razotkriti operacije i mogućnosti

in a way that allows the people that we're all working against,

na način da ljudi protiv kojih svi radimo,

the generally recognized bad guys,

koji su poznati kao loši momci,

to counter those.

mogu do njih da dođu.

CA: But isn't it also bad to deal

KA: Ali zar isto tako nije loše

a kind of body blow to the American companies

udariti američke kompanije

that have essentially given the world

koje su svetu dale

most of the Internet services that matter?

većinu internet servisa koji su važni?

RL: It is. It's really the companies are

RL: Jeste. Zapravo su te kompanije u teškoj poziciji,

in a tough position, as are we,

kao i mi,

because the companies,

jer te kompanije,

we compel them to provide information,

mi ih primoravamo da daju informacije,

just like every other nation in the world does.

baš kao što svaka druga nacija na svetu radi.

Every industrialized nation in the world

Svaka industrijalizovana država na svetu

has a lawful intercept program

ima zakonski program presretanja,

where they are requiring companies

gde se zahteva od kompanija

to provide them with information

da obezbede informacije

that they need for their security,

koje su potrebne zbog bezbednosti,

and the companies that are involved

i kompanije koje su uključene

have complied with those programs

složile su se s tim programima,

in the same way that they have to do

na isti način kao kad rade

when they're operating in Russia or the U.K.

u Rusiji ili Britaniji,

or China or India or France,

ili Kini, Indiji, Francuskoj,

any country that you choose to name.

bilo kojoj zemlji koju zamislite.

And so the fact that these revelations

Činjenica da se ova otkrića

have been broadly characterized as

naveliko karakterišu kao

"you can't trust company A because

"ne možete verovati kompaniji A

your privacy is suspect with them"

jer vaša privatnost nije sigurna kod njih"

is actually only accurate in the sense that

je tačna samo u smislu

it's accurate with every other company in the world

da je tačna u svakoj drugoj kompaniji na svetu

that deals with any of those countries in the world.

koja radi sa nekom od tih zemalja.

And so it's being picked up by people

To su ljudi uzeli

as a marketing advantage,

kao marketinšku prednost

and it's being marketed that way by several countries,

i nekoliko država to tako i predstavlja,

including some of our allied countries,

uključujući i neke naše saveznike,

where they are saying,

koji govore:

"Hey, you can't trust the U.S.,

"Hej, ne možete verovati SAD-u,

but you can trust our telecom company,

ali možete verovati našoj telekomunikacionoj kompaniji,

because we're safe."

jer smo mi bezbedni."

And they're actually using that to counter

To koriste da kontriraju

the very large technological edge

velikoj tehnološkoj prednosti

that U.S. companies have

koju imaju američke kompanije

in areas like the cloud and Internet-based technologies.

u poljima "oblaka" i tehnologijama baziranim na internetu.

CA: You're sitting there with the American flag,

KA: Sedite ispred američke zastave,

and the American Constitution guarantees

a američki Ustav garantuje slobodu

freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.

od neopravdanog pretresa i zaplene.

How do you characterize

Kako opisujete

the American citizen's right to privacy?

pravo američkih građana na privatnost?

Is there such a right?

Da li tako nešto postoji?

RL: Yeah, of course there is.

RL: Da, naravno da postoji.

And we devote an inordinate amount of time and pressure,

Mi posvećujemo ogromnu količinu vremena i pritiska,

inordinate and appropriate, actually I should say,

u stvari trebalo bi da kažem, ogromnu i odgovarajuću

amount of time and effort in order to ensure

količinu vremena i napora da osiguramo

that we protect that privacy.

zaštitu te privatnosti,

and beyond that, the privacy of citizens

i dalje od toga,

around the world, it's not just Americans.

privatnost građana širom sveta, ne samo Amerikanaca.

Several things come into play here.

Nekoliko stvari je ovde u igri.

First, we're all in the same network.

Prvo, svi smo u istoj mreži.

My communications,

Moja komunikacija,

I'm a user of a particular Internet email service

ja koristim određeni internet imejl servis

that is the number one email service of choice

koji je prvi po izboru

by terrorists around the world, number one.

i terorista širom sveta.

So I'm there right beside them in email space

Ja se dakle nalazim odmah pored njih

in the Internet.

u imejl prostoru na internetu.

And so we need to be able to pick that apart

Moramo biti sposobni da to razdvojimo

and find the information that's relevant.

i pronađemo značajne informacije.

In doing so, we're going to necessarily encounter

U tom procesu, neminovno ćemo sresti

Americans and innocent foreign citizens

nevine američke i strane građane

who are just going about their business,

koji samo gledaju svoja posla,

and so we have procedures in place that shreds that out,

pa tako imamo procedure koje odvajaju,

that says, when you find that,

koje kažu, kad to pronađete,

not if you find it, when you find it, because you're certain to find it,

ne "ako" pronađete, jer ćete sigurno pronaći,

here's how you protect that.

evo kako da ih zaštitite.

These are called minimization procedures.

One se nazivaju procedure minimizacije.

They're approved by the attorney general

Odobrio ih je državni tužilac

and constitutionally based.

i zasnovane su na ustavu.

And so we protect those.

Mi ih dakle štitimo.

And then, for people, citizens of the world

Potom, za ljude, građane sveta

who are going about their lawful business

koji obavljaju svoje legalne poslove

on a day-to-day basis,

svakog dana,

the president on his January 17 speech,

predsednik je u svom govoru 17. januara

laid out some additional protections

predstavio dodatne zaštite

that we are providing to them.

koje im obezbeđujemo.

So I think absolutely,

Mislim da ljudi apsolutno

folks do have a right to privacy,

imaju prava na privatnosti,

and that we work very hard to make sure

i mi naporno radimo da osiguramo

that that right to privacy is protected.

da je to pravo zaštićeno.

CA: What about foreigners using

KA: Šta je sa strancima

American companies' Internet services?

koji koriste internet usluge američkih kompanija?

Do they have any privacy rights?

Da li oni imaju prava na privatnost?

RL: They do. They do, in the sense of,

RL: Imaju.

the only way that we are able to compel

U smislu da je jedini način da primoramo

one of those companies to provide us information

neku od tih kompanija da nam da informacije,

is when it falls into one of three categories:

onda kada spada u jednu od tri kategorije:

We can identify that this particular person,

možemo uz pomoć nekog kriterijuma,

identified by a selector of some kind,

da identifikujemo da je određena osoba,

is associated with counterterrorist

povezana sa protivterorizmom

or proliferation or other foreign intelligence target.

ili oružjem ili nekom drugom metom strane obaveštajne službe.

CA: Much has been made of the fact that

KA: Mnogo se govori o činjenici

a lot of the information that you've obtained

da mnogo informacija koje ste skupili kroz ove programe

through these programs is essentially metadata.

čine metapodaci.

It's not necessarily the actual words

To nisu obavezno konkretne reči

that someone has written in an email

koje je neko napisao u mejlu

or given on a phone call.

ili rekao preko telefona.

It's who they wrote to and when, and so forth.

Nego kome su pisali, kada, i tako dalje.

But it's been argued,

Ali tvrdi se,

and someone here in the audience has talked

i neko iz publike je razgovarao

to a former NSA analyst who said

sa jednim bivšim analitičarem NSA

metadata is actually much more invasive

koji je rekao da su metapodaci

than the core data,

mnogo invazivniji od sadržaja,

because in the core data

jer putem sadržaja

you present yourself as you want to be presented.

se predstavljate onako kako želite.

With metadata, who knows what the conclusions are

Sa metapodacima,

ko zna kakvi se zaključci donose?

that are drawn?

Is there anything to that?

Recite nešto o tome.

RL: I don't really understand that argument.

RL: Ne razumem baš tu tvrdnju.

I think that metadata's important for a couple of reasons.

Mislim da su metapodaci važni iz par razloga.

Metadata is the information that lets you

To su informacije koje vam omogućavaju

find connections that people are trying to hide.

da pronađete veze koje ljudi pokušavaju da sakriju.

So when a terrorist is corresponding

Dakle, kada neki terorista komunicira

with somebody else who's not known to us

sa nekim ko nam nije poznat,

but is engaged in doing or supporting terrorist activity,

ali je uključen u terorističke aktivnosti,

or someone who's violating international sanctions

ili s nekim ko krši međunarodne sankcije

by providing nuclear weapons-related material

obezbeđujući materijal u vezi sa nuklearnim oružjem

to a country like Iran or North Korea,

zemlji kao što je Iran ili Severna Koreja,

is trying to hide that activity because it's illicit activity.

i pokušava da te aktivnosti sakrije jer nisu dozvoljene.

What metadata lets you do is connect that.

Metapodaci vam omogućavaju da to povežete.

The alternative to that

Alternativa

is one that's much less efficient

je mnogo manje efikasna

and much more invasive of privacy,

i mnogo više zadire u privatnost,

which is gigantic amounts of content collection.

a to je skupljanje ogromne količine sadržaja.

So metadata, in that sense,

Dakle, metapodaci, u tom smislu,

actually is privacy-enhancing.

povećavaju privatnost.

And we don't, contrary to some of the stuff

I nasuprot mnogo čemu što je pisano,

that's been printed,

mi ne sedimo

we don't sit there and grind out

i ne pravimo

metadata profiles of average people.

profile metapodataka običnih ljudi.

If you're not connected

Ako niste povezani

to one of those valid intelligence targets,

sa nekom proverenom metom,

you are not of interest to us.

niste nam zanimljivi.

CA: So in terms of the threats

KA: Kad su u pitanju sve pretnje

that face America overall,

s kojima se Amerika suočava,

where would you place terrorism?

gde biste postavili terorizam?

RL: I think terrorism is still number one.

RL: Mislim da je još uvek na prvom mestu.

I think that we have never been in a time

Nikada nije postojalo vreme

where there are more places

gde postoji toliko mesta

where things are going badly

na kojima se stvari loše odvijaju,

and forming the petri dish in which terrorists

i formiraju pogodno tlo gde teroristi

take advantage of the lack of governance.

iskorišćavaju nedostatak vlasti.

An old boss of mine, Tom Fargo, Admiral Fargo,

Moj stari šef, admiral Tom Fargo,

used to describe it as arcs of instability.

to je opisivao kao lukove nestabilnosti.

And so you have a lot of those arcs of instability

Trenutno u svetu

in the world right now,

ima mnogo lukova nestabilnoti,

in places like Syria, where there's a civil war

na primer u Siriji, gde besni građanski rat

going on and you have massive numbers,

i imate mnogo,

thousands and thousands of foreign fighters

hiljade i hiljade stranih vojnika

who are coming into Syria

koji dolaze u Siriju

to learn how to be terrorists

da nauče da budu teroristi

and practice that activity,

i praktikuju te aktivnosti,

and lots of those people are Westerners

i mnogi od njih su zapadnjaci

who hold passports to European countries

sa pasošima evropskih zemalja,

or in some cases the United States,

ponekad i SAD-a,

and so they are basically learning how

i oni u osnovi uče

to do jihad and have expressed intent

kako da sprovode džihad

to go out and do that later on

i izjasnili su se da žele da kasnije

in their home countries.

to sprovedu u svojim zemljama.

You've got places like Iraq,

Imate mesta kao što je Irak,

which is suffering from a high level of sectarian violence,

gde vlada visok stepen sektaškog nasilja,

again a breeding ground for terrorism.

što je takođe pogodno mesto za terorizam.

And you have the activity in the Horn of Africa

Imate i aktivnosti na rogu Afrike

and the Sahel area of Africa.

i u regiji Sahel.

Again, lots of weak governance

Ponovo, mnogo slabe vlasti

which forms a breeding ground for terrorist activity.

koja je pogodno tlo za terorističke aktivnosti.

So I think it's very serious. I think it's number one.

Dakle, mislim da je to vrlo ozbiljno. Na prvom mestu.

I think number two is cyber threat.

A na drugom su sajber pretnje.

I think cyber is a threat in three ways:

I to na tri načina:

One way, and probably the most common way

najčešći način,

that people have heard about it,

za koji su ljudi čuli,

is due to the theft of intellectual property,

je usled krađe intelektualne svojine,

so basically, foreign countries going in,

u osnovi strane države

stealing companies' secrets,

kradu tajne od kompanija

and then providing that information

i potom te informacije

to state-owned enterprises

dele sa državnim firmama

or companies connected to the government

ili kompanijama povezanim sa vladom,

to help them leapfrog technology

kako bi im pomogle u tehnološkom napretku

or to gain business intelligence

ili sticanju poslovnih informacija

that's then used to win contracts overseas.

koje potom koriste da dobiju poslove u inostranstvu.

That is a hugely costly set of activities that's going on right now.

Te aktivnosti koje se trenutno odvijaju su veoma skupe.

Several nation-states are doing it.

Nekoliko država ih čini.

Second is the denial-of-service attacks.

Na drugom mestu su napadi onemogućavanja pristupa.

You're probably aware that there have been

Verovatno znate da je mnoštvo njih

a spate of those directed against

upereno protiv

the U.S. financial sector since 2012.

američkog finansijskog sektora od 2012.

Again, that's a nation-state who is executing those attacks,

Opet, neka država sprovodi te napade,

and they're doing that

i to čine

as a semi-anonymous way of reprisal.

kao poluanonimni način osvete.

And the last one is destructive attacks,

Poslednji su destruktivni napadi,

and those are the ones that concern me the most.

i oni me najviše brinu.

Those are on the rise.

Oni su u porastu.

You have the attack against Saudi Aramco in 2012,

2012. je bio napad protiv kompanije Saudi Aramco,

August of 2012.

u avgustu 2012.

It took down about 35,000 of their computers

Onesposobio je oko 35.000 njihovih računara

with a Wiper-style virus.

virusom tipa Wiper.

You had a follow-on a week later

Nedelju dana kasnije

to a Qatari company.

isto se desilo jednoj katarskoj kompaniji.

You had March of 2013,

U martu 2013.

you had a South Korean attack

napad iz Južne Koreje

that was attributed in the press to North Korea

mediji su pripisali Severnoj Koreji,

that took out thousands of computers.

a on je onesposobio hiljade računara.

Those are on the rise,

Oni su u porastu,

and we see people expressing interest

i vidimo da se ljudi interesuju

in those capabilities

za te mogućnosti

and a desire to employ them.

i žele da ih sprovedu.

CA: Okay, so a couple of things here,

KA: U redu. Ovde ima par stvari,

because this is really the core of this, almost.

jer je ovo skoro srž stvari.

I mean, first of all,

Mislim, pre svega,

a lot of people who look at risk

mnogi koji gledaju rizik

and look at the numbers

i brojeve

don't understand this belief that terrorism

ne razumeju ovo uverenje

is still the number one threat.

da je terorizam i dalje najveća pretnja.

Apart from September 11,

Osim 11. septembra,

I think the numbers are that in the last 30 or 40 years

mislim da brojevi pokazuju da je u poslednjih 30 ili 40 godina

about 500 Americans have died from terrorism,

oko 500 Amerikanaca poginulo usled terorizma,

mostly from homegrown terrorists.

uglavnom od domaćih terorista.

The chance in the last few years

U poslednjih nekoliko godina,

of being killed by terrorism

šansa za smrtni ishod usled terorizma

is far less than the chance of being killed by lightning.

je mnogo manja od šanse za smrtni ishod usled groma.

I guess you would say that a single nuclear incident

Pretpostavljam da ćete reći

da bi jedan nuklearni incident ili čin biološkog terorizma ili slično

or bioterrorism act or something like that

would change those numbers.

promenio te brojeve.

Would that be the point of view?

Da li je to možda ugao posmatranja?

RL: Well, I'd say two things.

RL: Rekao bih dve stvari.

One is, the reason that there hasn't been

Prvo, razlog zašto u SAD nije bilo

a major attack in the United States since 9/11,

velikog napada od 11. septembra

that is not an accident.

nije slučajnost.

That's a lot of hard work that we have done,

U to je uloženo mnogo našeg napornog rada,

that other folks

napornog rada drugih ljudi iz obaveštajne zajednice,

in the intelligence community have done,

that the military has done,

vojske,

and that our allies around the globe have done.

i naših saveznika širom sveta.

You've heard the numbers about

Čuli ste za brojeve

the tip of the iceberg in terms

koji označavaju vrh ledenog brega,

of numbers of terrorist attacks that NSA programs

broj terorističkih napada

contributed to stopping was 54,

koje su programi NSA sprečili je 54,

25 of those in Europe,

od toga 25 u Evropi,

and of those 25,

a od tih 25,

18 of them occurred in three countries,

18 u tri države,

some of which are our allies,

od kojih su neke naši saveznici,

and some of which are beating the heck out of us

a neke nas kritikuju

over the NSA programs, by the way.

zbog NSA programa.

So that's not an accident that those things happen.

Dakle, nije slučajnost da se to dešava.

That's hard work. That's us finding intelligence

To je naporan rad. Mi pronalazimo informacije

on terrorist activities

o terorističkim aktivnostima

and interdicting them through one way or another,

i presrećemo ih na ovaj ili onaj način,

through law enforcement,

zakonskim putem,

through cooperative activities with other countries

kroz saradnju sa drugim državama,

and sometimes through military action.

ponekad vojnim putem.

The other thing I would say is that

Drugo što bih rekao

your idea of nuclear or chem-bio-threat

je da vaša ideja o nuklearnoj ili biološkoj pretnji

is not at all far-fetched

nije tako neverovatna,

and in fact there are a number of groups

zapravo postoje određene grupe

who have for several years expressed interest

koje se godinama interesuju

and desire in obtaining those capabilities

i žele da pribave takve mogućnosti

and work towards that.

i rade na tome.

CA: It's also been said that,

KA: Takođe se govorilo da,

of those 54 alleged incidents,

od ta 54 navodna incidenta,

that as few as zero of them

nijedan od njih

were actually anything to do

nije imao veze

with these controversial programs

sa kontroverznim programima

that Mr. Snowden revealed,

koje je gospodin Snouden otkrio,

that it was basically through other forms of intelligence,

da zapravo kroz druge obaveštajne forme

that you're looking for a needle in a haystack,

tražite iglu u plastu sena,

and the effects of these programs,

a da su efekti tih programa,

these controversial programs,

tih kontroverznih programa,

is just to add hay to the stack,

samo da dodaju seno na plast,

not to really find the needle.

ne i da pronađu iglu.

The needle was found by other methods.

Igla je pronađena drugim metodama.

Isn't there something to that?

Zar nema nečega u tome?

RL: No, there's actually two programs

RL: Ne, postoje dva programa

that are typically implicated in that discussion.

koja se pominju u tim diskusijama.

One is the section 215 program,

Jedan je program Člana 215,

the U.S. telephony metadata program,

program metapodataka američke telefonije,

and the other one is

a drugi je

popularly called the PRISM program,

popularno nazvan program PRIZMA,

and it's actually section 702 of the FISA Amendment Act.

koji je u stvari Član 702 Amandmana FISA zakona.

But the 215 program

Ali program Člana 215

is only relevant to threats

se odnosi samo na pretnje

that are directed against the United States,

koje su usmerene protiv SAD-a,

and there have been a dozen threats

i bilo je desetine takvih pretnji

where that was implicated.

gde je to bilo uključeno.

Now what you'll see people say publicly

Čućete da ljudi javno govore

is there is no "but for" case,

da ne postoji slučaj "osim za",

and so there is no case where, but for that,

ne postoji slučaj, osim tog,

the threat would have happened.

gde bi se pretnja desila.

But that actually indicates a lack of understanding

Ali to pokazuje nedostatak razumevanja

of how terrorist investigations actually work.

funkcionisanja istrage o teroristima.

You think about on television,

Na televiziji gledate

you watch a murder mystery.

misteriozno ubistvo.

What do you start with? You start with a body,

Odakle počinjete?

and then they work their way from there to solve the crime.

Počinjete sa telom, pa se odatle rešava slučaj.

We're actually starting well before that,

A mi počinjemo mnogo pre toga,

hopefully before there are any bodies,

nadam se pre nego što se tela pojave

and we're trying to build the case for

i pokušavamo da izgradimo slučaj

who the people are, what they're trying to do,

o tim ljudima, šta pokušavaju da urade,

and that involves massive amounts of information.

a to uključuje ogromne količine informacija.

Think of it is as mosaic,

Mislite o tome kao o mozaiku,

and it's hard to say that any one piece of a mosaic

teško je reći da je bilo koji deo mozaika

was necessary to building the mosaic,

neophodan za njegovu izradu,

but to build the complete picture,

ali da biste napravili celovitu sliku,

you need to have all the pieces of information.

potrebni su vam svi delovi informacije.

On the other, the non-U.S.-related threats out of those 54,

Za ostale pretnje od onih 54, koje se ne odnose na SAD,

the other 42 of them,

za one 42,

the PRISM program was hugely relevant to that,

program PRIZMA je bio izuzetno važan,

and in fact was material in contributing

presudan u doprinosu

to stopping those attacks.

zaustavljanja tih napada.

CA: Snowden said two days ago

KA: Snouden je pre dva dana rekao

that terrorism has always been

da je terorizam oduvek,

what is called in the intelligence world

kako se u obaveštajnom svetu naziva,

"a cover for action,"

"paravan za akciju",

that it's something that,

nešto što,

because it invokes such a powerful

zbog toga što kod ljudi izaziva

emotional response in people,

tako snažnu emocionalnu reakciju,

it allows the initiation of these programs

dozvoljava osnivanje ovih programa

to achieve powers that an organization like yours

kako bi se postigle moći koje organizacija kao što je vaša

couldn't otherwise have.

Is there any internal debate about that?

Postoji li neka interna debata u vezi s tim?

RL: Yeah.

RL: Da.

I mean, we debate these things all the time,

Mislim, o tome razgovaramo stalno,

and there is discussion that goes on

rasprava se odvija

in the executive branch

u izvršnoj grani

and within NSA itself

i u samoj NSA,

and the intelligence community about

kao i u obaveštajnoj zajendici,

what's right, what's proportionate,

o tome šta je ispravno, odgovarajuće,

what's the correct thing to do.

šta je dobro uraditi.

And it's important to note that the programs

Važno je naglasiti da su programe

that we're talking about

o kojima govorimo

were all authorized by two different presidents,

odobrila dva različita predsednika,

two different political parties,

dve različite političke partije,

by Congress twice,

dva puta Kongres,

and by federal judges 16 different times,

i 16 puta savezne sudije,

and so this is not NSA running off

dakle nije se NSA otkačila

and doing its own thing.

i radi nešto na svoju ruku.

This is a legitimate activity

Ovo je legitimna aktivnost

of the United States foreign government

inostrane politike SAD-a

that was agreed to by all the branches

u vezi s kojom su se složile sve grane

of the United States government,

vlade Sjedinjenih Američkih Država,

and President Madison would have been proud.

i predsednik Medison bi bio ponosan.

CA: And yet, when congressmen discovered

KA: Ipak, kad su ljudi u Kongresu

what was actually being done with that authorization,

oktrili šta se zaista radi sa tim ovlašćenjima,

many of them were completely shocked.

mnogi su bili potpuno šokirani.

Or do you think that is not a legitimate reaction,

Ili mislite da to nije odgovarajuća reakcija,

that it's only because it's now come out publicly,

nego je takva samo zbog toga što je sve obelodanjeno,

that they really knew exactly what you were doing

da su oni u stvari tačno znali šta vi radite

with the powers they had granted you?

sa ovlašćenjima koja su vam dali?

RL: Congress is a big body.

RL: Kongres je veliko telo.

There's 535 of them,

Ima ih 535,

and they change out frequently,

i često se menjaju,

in the case of the House, every two years,

u slučaju Predstavničkog doma, na svake dve godine,

and I think that the NSA provided

i mislim da je NSA obezbedila

all the relevant information to our oversight committees,

sve bitne informacije našim nadzornim komitetima,

and then the dissemination of that information

a raspodelom tih informacija

by the oversight committees throughout Congress

unutar Kongresa

is something that they manage.

rukovode nadzorni komiteti.

I think I would say that Congress members

Rekao bih da su članovi Kongresa

had the opportunity to make themselves aware,

imali šansu da se upoznaju s tim,

and in fact a significant number of them,

i zapravo značajan broj njih,

the ones who are assigned oversight responsibility,

onih koji imaju odgovornost nadzora,

did have the ability to do that.

imao je sposobnost za to.

And you've actually had the chairs of those committees say that in public.

I predsedavajući tih komiteta su to javno i rekli.

CA: Now, you mentioned the threat of cyberattacks,

KA: Pomenuli ste opasnost od sajber napada,

and I don't think anyone in this room would disagree

mislim da se svi slažu

that that is a huge concern,

da je to velika briga,

but do you accept that there's a tradeoff

ali da li prihvatate postojanje kompromisa

between offensive and defensive strategies,

između strategija napada i odbrane,

and that it's possible that the very measures taken

i da je moguće da su mere koje su preduzete

to, "weaken encryption,"

da "oslabe enkripciju"

and allow yourself to find the bad guys,

kako bi se pronašli loši momci,

might also open the door to forms of cyberattack?

takođe otvorile vrata raznim oblicima sajber napada?

RL: So I think two things.

RL: Mislim dve stvari.

One is, you said weaken encryption. I didn't.

Prvo, rekli ste da se oslabi enkripcija. Ja nisam.

And the other one is that

Drugo,

the NSA has both of those missions,

NSA ima obe te misije,

and we are heavily biased towards defense,

i naročito naginjemo odbrani,

and, actually, the vulnerabilities that we find

i zapravo osetljivosti koje nalazimo

in the overwhelming majority of cases,

u velikoj većini slučajeva,

we disclose to the people who are responsible

mi obelodanimo onima koji su odgovorni

for manufacturing or developing those products.

za proizvodnju i razvoj tih proizvoda.

We have a great track record of that,

Imamo dosta uspeha u tome,

and we're actually working on a proposal right now

i trenutno radimo na predlogu

to be transparent and to publish transparency reports

transparentnosti i objavljivanja izveštaja

in the same way that the Internet companies

na isti način na koji je internet kompanijama

are being allowed to publish transparency reports for them.

dozvoljeno da objavljuju svoje izveštaje o transparentnosti.

We want to be more transparent about that.

Želimo da budemo transparentniji u vezi s tim.

So again, we eat our own dog food.

Dakle, opet, mi koristimo svoje proizvode.

We use the standards, we use the products

Koristimo standarde, proizvode

that we recommend,

koje preporučujemo

and so it's in our interest

i u našem je interesu

to keep our communications protected

da su naše komunikacije zaštićene

in the same way that other people's need to be.

na isti način kao i komunikacije drugih.

CA: Edward Snowden,

KA: Kada je Edvard Snouden,

when, after his talk, was wandering the halls here

posle svog govora šetao hodnicima ovde,

in the bot,

putem robota,

and I heard him say to a couple of people,

čuo sam da su ga neki upitali

they asked him about what he thought

šta misli

of the NSA overall,

o NSA generalno,

and he was very complimentary about the people

a on je veoma pohvalio ljude

who work with you,

koji rade s vama,

said that it's a really

rekao da je to

impassioned group of employees

nadahnuta grupa radnika

who are seeking to do the right thing,

koji žele da urade pravu stvar,

and that the problems have come from

a da su problemi nastali

just some badly conceived policies.

od loše uobličenih pravila.

He came over certainly very reasonably and calmly.

Ostavio je utisak veoma razumnog i mirnog čoveka.

He didn't come over like a crazy man.

Nije delovao kao ludak.

Would you accept that at least,

Da li biste prihvatili,

even if you disagree with how he did it,

čak iako se ne slažete sa njegovim načinom,

that he has opened a debate that matters?

da je pokrenuo važnu debatu?

RL: So I think that the discussion

RL: Pa mislim da je to

is an important one to have.

jedna važna diskusija.

I do not like the way that he did it.

Ne dopada mi se način na koji je to uradio.

I think there were a number of other ways

Mislim da je bilo mnogo drugih načina

that he could have done that

na koje je mogao da to uradi,

that would have not endangered our people

koji ne bi ugrozili naše ljude

and the people of other nations

i ljude drugih nacija

through losing visibility

kroz gubljenje uvida

into what our adversaries are doing.

u to šta rade naši protivnici.

But I do think it's an important conversation.

Ali mislim da je ovo važna rasprava.

CA: It's been reported that there's

KA: Priča se

almost a difference of opinion

da postoje skoro različita mišljenja

with you and your colleagues

između vas i vaših kolega

over any scenario in which

u vezi sa situacijom

he might be offered an amnesty deal.

u kojoj bi mu mogla biti ponuđena amnestija.

I think your boss, General Keith Alexander,

Mislim da je vaš šef, general Kit Aleksander,

has said that that would be a terrible example

rekao da bi to bio užasan primer

for others;

za druge;

you can't negotiate with someone

ne možete pregovarati sa nekim

who's broken the law in that way.

ko je na taj način prekršio zakon.

But you've been quoted as saying that,

Ali vi ste navodno rekli da,

if Snowden could prove that he was surrendering

ako Snouden može da dokaže

da je predao sve neobjavljenje dokumente,

all undisclosed documents,

that a deal maybe should be considered.

da bi se razmislilo o nagodbi.

Do you still think that?

Da li i dalje tako mislite?

RL: Yeah, so actually,

RL: Da, pa zapravo,

this is my favorite thing about that "60 Minutes" interview

moja omiljena stvar u vezi sa emisijom "60 minuta"

was all the misquotes that came from that.

je koliko sam pogrešno citiran.

What I actually said, in response to a question about,

Na pitanje o tome

would you entertain any discussions

da li bih diskutovao

of mitigating action against Snowden,

o manjoj kazni za Snoudena,

I said, yeah, it's worth a conversation.

rekao sam da, vredno je razgovora.

This is something that the attorney general

To je nešto o čemu su državni tužilac

of the United States and the president also

i predsednik Sjedninjenih Država

actually have both talked about this,

već razgovarali,

and I defer to the attorney general,

a pominjem državnog tužioca

because this is his lane.

jer je to njegova oblast.

But there is a strong tradition

Ali u američkom pravu

in American jurisprudence

postoji jaka tradicija

of having discussions with people

razgovora sa ljudima

who have been charged with crimes in order to,

koji su optuženi za zločine,

if it benefits the government,

kako bi, ako to vladi odgovara,

to get something out of that,

moglo nešto da se izvuče iz toga,

that there's always room for that kind of discussion.

dakle uvek ima mesta za takvu diskusiju.

So I'm not presupposing any outcome,

Ne predviđam nikakav ishod,

but there is always room for discussion.

ali uvek ima mesta za diskusiju.

CA: To a lay person it seems like

KA: Laiku izgleda

he has certain things to offer the U.S.,

kao da on ima nešto da ponudi SAD-u,

the government, you, others,

vladi, vama, drugima,

in terms of putting things right

kako bi ispravio stvari

and helping figure out a smarter policy,

i pomogao u osmišljavanju pametnije politike,

a smarter way forward for the future.

pametnijeg puta u budućnost.

Do you see, has that kind of possibility

Da li je takva mogućnost

been entertained at all?

uopšte razmatrana?

RL: So that's out of my lane.

RL: Pa, to nije moj posao.

That's not an NSA thing.

To nije posao za NSA.

That would be a Department of Justice

To bi bilo za Ministarstvo pravde,

sort of discussion.

njihova diskusija.

I'll defer to them.

Obratio bih se njima.

CA: Rick, when Ed Snowden ended his talk,

KA: Rik, kada je Ed Snouden završio svoj govor

I offered him the chance to share an idea worth spreading.

ponudio sam mu da predstavi neku ideju vrednu širenja.

What would be your idea worth spreading

Koja je vaša ideja vredna deljenja

for this group?

sa ovom publikom?

RL: So I think, learn the facts.

RL: Dakle, saznajte činjenice.

This is a really important conversation,

Ovo je veoma važan razgovor

and it impacts, it's not just NSA,

i utiče ne samo na NSA,

it's not just the government,

ne samo na vladu,

it's you, it's the Internet companies.

nego i na vas, i na internet kompanije.

The issue of privacy and personal data

Problem privatnosti i ličnih podataka

is much bigger than just the government,

je mnogo veći od vlade,

and so learn the facts.

dakle saznajte činjenice.

Don't rely on headlines,

Ne oslanjajte se na naslove,

don't rely on sound bites,

na deliće informacija,

don't rely on one-sided conversations.

na jednostrane razgovore.

So that's the idea, I think, worth spreading.

Mislim da je to ideja vredna širenja.

We have a sign, a badge tab,

Imam značku,

we wear badges at work with lanyards,

na poslu nosimo značke na vrpci,

and if I could make a plug,

i ako mogu da kažem,

my badge lanyard at work says, "Dallas Cowboys."

na mojoj vrpci piše "Kauboji Dalasa".

Go Dallas.

Napred Dalas.

I've just alienated half the audience, I know.

Znam da sam sad udaljio polovinu publike.

So the lanyard that our people

Vrpca koju nose naši ljudi

who work in the organization

koji rade u organizaciji

that does our crypto-analytic work

koja se bavi kripto-analizom,

have a tab that says, "Look at the data."

kaže: "Gledajte podatke".

So that's the idea worth spreading.

To je ideja vredna širenja.

Look at the data.

Gledajte podatke.

CA: Rick, it took a certain amount of courage,

KA: Rik, bilo je potrebno hrabrosti

I think, actually, to come and speak openly

da dođete i otvoreno govorite

to this group.

pred ovom publikom.

It's not something the NSA has done a lot of in the past,

Tako nešto NSA nije ranije radila,

and plus the technology has been challenging.

a i tehnološki je bilo izazovno.

We truly appreciate you doing that

Zaista cenimo što ste bili

and sharing in this very important conversation.

i učestvovali u ovom veoma važnom razgovoru.

Thank you so much.

Mnogo vam hvala.

RL: Thanks, Chris.

RL: Hvala, Kris.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)