Richard Ledgett: The NSA responds to Edward Snowden's TED Talk

240,758 views ใƒป 2014-03-21

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: hansom Lee ๊ฒ€ํ† : Gemma Lee
00:12
Chris Anderson: We had Edward Snowden here
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค ์•ค๋”์Šจ: ๋ฉฐ์น  ์ „์— ์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ์™€
00:14
a couple days ago,
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ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•˜์˜€์œผ๋‹ˆ,
00:16
and this is response time.
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์˜ค๋Š˜์€ ๋Œ€๋‹ตํ•  ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:18
And several of you have written to me
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค ์ค‘ ๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ(NSA)์—์„œ ์˜จ ์†๋‹˜์—๊ฒŒ ํ• 
00:20
with questions to ask our guest here from the NSA.
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์งˆ๋ฌธ ๋ช‡๊ฐ€์ง€๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋‚ด์ฃผ์…จ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:25
So Richard Ledgett is the 15th deputy director
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๋ฆฌ์ฒ˜๋“œ ๋ ˆ์ง“์€ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ(NSA)์˜
00:27
of the National Security Agency,
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15๋Œ€ ๋ถ€๊ตญ์žฅ์ด๊ณ ,
00:30
and he's a senior civilian officer there,
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ์ƒ์œ„ ๊ณต๋ฌด์›์ด๋ฉฐ
00:33
acts as its chief operating officer,
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์ตœ๊ณ  ์šด์˜ ์ฑ…์ž„์ž๋กœ์„œ ํ™œ๋™ํ•˜๋ฉฐ
00:35
guiding strategies, setting internal policies,
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์ „๋žต์„ ์ œ์‹œํ•˜๊ณ , ๋‚ด๋ถ€ ์ •์ฑ…์„ ์ˆ˜๋ฆฝํ•˜๋ฉฐ
00:39
and serving as the principal advisor to the director.
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๊ตญ์žฅ์—๊ฒŒ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ณ ๋ฌธ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:43
And all being well,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ฆฌ์‹œ๋Š”
00:45
welcome, Rick Ledgett, to TED.
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๋ฆญ ๋ ˆ์ง“์„ TED ๋กœ ๋ชจ์‹œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:48
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
00:55
Richard Ledgett: I'm really thankful for the opportunity to talk to folks here.
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๋ฆฌ์ฒ˜๋“œ ๋ ˆ์ง“: ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค๊ณผ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•  ๊ธฐํšŒ๋ฅผ ์ฃผ์…”์„œ ์ •๋ง๋กœ ๊ฐ์‚ฌ๋“œ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:59
I look forward to the conversation,
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์ €๋Š” ์ด ์‹œ๊ฐ„์„ ์ •๋ง ๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ ค ์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:01
so thanks for arranging for that.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ธฐํšŒ๋ฅผ ๋งˆ๋ จํ•ด์ฃผ์…”์„œ ์ •๋ง ๊ณ ๋ง™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:04
CA: Thank you, Rick.
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๊ณ ๋ง™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋ฆญ.
01:05
We appreciate you joining us.
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์ €ํฌ์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•ด ์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:08
It's certainly quite a strong statement
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ(NSA)์ด ์ด๊ณณ์— ๋‚˜์˜จ ์ด์œ ๋Š”
01:10
that the NSA is willing to reach out
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๋Œ€์ค‘๋“ค๊ณผ ์†Œํ†ตํ•˜๋ ค๋Š”
01:12
and show a more open face here.
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๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ์˜์ง€๋กœ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:16
You saw, I think,
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—
01:18
the talk and interview that Edward Snowden
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์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์ด ๋ฉฐ์น ์ „ ์ด๊ณณ์—์„œ ํ•œ
01:22
gave here a couple days ago.
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๊ฐ•์—ฐ์„ ๋ณด์…จ์„ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:23
What did you make of it?
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์–ด๋–ค ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ํ•˜์…จ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
01:25
RL: So I think it was interesting.
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๋ฆญ : ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์› ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:28
We didn't realize that he was going to show up there,
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์ €ํฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ณณ์— ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚ ์ง€ ๋ชฐ๋ž์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:31
so kudos to you guys for arranging
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋†€๋ผ์›€์„ ๋งŒ๋“  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
01:34
a nice surprise like that.
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์ฐฌ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋ƒ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:37
I think that, like a lot of the things
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š”
01:42
that have come out since Mr. Snowden
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์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ๊ธฐ๋ฐ€ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ํญ๋กœํ•œ ์ดํ›„๋กœ
01:47
started disclosing classified information,
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์ผ์–ด๋‚˜๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ๋“ค์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ,
01:50
there were some kernels of truth in there,
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ง„์‹ค์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:53
but a lot of extrapolations and half-truths in there,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ๊ณผ์ž‰์ถ”์ธก๊ณผ ๋ฐ˜์ชฝ ์ง„์‹ค์ด ์„ž์—ฌ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:56
and I'm interested in helping to address those.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๊ทœ๋ช…ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋„์›€์„ ์ฃผ๋Š”๋ฐ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:59
I think this is a really important conversation
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ, ๊ตญ์ œ์ ์œผ๋กœ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
02:01
that we're having in the United States
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์ด ๋Œ€ํ™”๋Š” ์•„์ฃผ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ 
02:03
and internationally,
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์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:04
and I think it is important and of import,
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๋˜ํ•œ ์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์‚ฌ์•ˆ์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
02:09
and so given that, we need to have that be
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์—ผ๋‘ํ•ด๋‘๊ณ ,
02:12
a fact-based conversation,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์— ๊ทผ๊ฑฐํ•œ ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•  ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:14
and we want to help make that happen.
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๋˜ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋„๋ก ๋•๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:16
CA: So the question that a lot of people have here is,
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ํ•œ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์€
02:21
what do you make of Snowden's motivations
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์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์ด ์™œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ผ์„ ํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
02:24
for doing what he did,
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋Š”์ง€,
02:26
and did he have an alternative way that he could have gone?
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๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ทจํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๋˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
02:30
RL: He absolutely did
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๋ฆญ: ๊ทธ๋Š” ๋ถ„๋ช…ํžˆ
02:33
have alternative ways that he could have gone,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ์ทจํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
02:37
and I actually think that characterizing him
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์ €๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค ๊ทธ๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๋ถ€ ๊ณ ๋ฐœ์ž๋ผ๊ณ 
02:43
as a whistleblower
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๊ฐ„์ฃผํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
02:44
actually hurts legitimate whistleblowing activities.
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์ •๋‹นํ•œ ๋‚ด๋ถ€ ๊ณ ๋ฐœ ํ–‰์œ„๋ฅผ ์†์ƒ์‹œํ‚จ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:48
So what if somebody who works in the NSA --
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์—์„œ ์ผํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ์‹œ๋‹ค.
02:52
and there are over 35,000 people who do.
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35,000 ๋ช… ์ด์ƒ์ด ์ผํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:55
They're all great citizens.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋ชจ๋‘ ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•œ ์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:57
They're just like your husbands, fathers, sisters,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค์˜ ๋‚จํŽธ, ์•„๋ฒ„์ง€, ์—ฌ๋™์ƒ,
02:59
brothers, neighbors, nephews, friends and relatives,
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ํ˜•, ์ด์›ƒ, ์กฐ์นด, ์นœ๊ตฌ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์นœ์ฒ™์ด๊ณ 
03:03
all of whom are interested in doing the right thing
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์ž๊ธฐ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•ด, ๊ตญ์ œ์ ์ธ ๋™๋งน๊ตญ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด
03:06
for their country
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์˜ฌ๋ฐ”๋ฅธ ํ–‰๋™์„ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ฒƒ์—
03:07
and for our allies internationally,
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๊ด€์‹ฌ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:10
and so there are a variety of venues to address
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋งŒ์•ฝ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ฑฑ์ •๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
03:14
if folks have a concern.
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๊ทธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋“ค์„ ์งš๊ณ  ๋„˜์–ด๊ฐˆ ๊ณณ์ด ๋งŽ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:15
First off, there's their supervisor,
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์šฐ์„ , ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ์ƒ๊ด€์ด ์žˆ๊ณ 
03:17
and up through the supervisory chain
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๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ์กฐ์ง ๋‚ด์—์„œ
03:20
within their organization.
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์ผ๋ จ์˜ ์ƒ๊ด€๋“ค์„ ๊ฑฐ์ณ๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:21
If folks aren't comfortable with that,
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ์ƒ๊ด€๊ณผ ์–˜๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ถˆํŽธํ•˜๋ฉด
03:23
there are a number of inspectors general.
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:25
In the case of Mr. Snowden, he had the option
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์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์— ๊ทธ๋Š”
03:29
of the NSA inspector general,
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€,
03:31
the Navy inspector general,
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ํ•ด๊ตฐ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€,
03:32
the Pacific Command inspector general,
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ํƒœํ‰์–‘ ์‚ฌ๋ น๋ถ€ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€,
03:34
the Department of Defense inspector general,
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๊ตญ๋ฐฉ๋ถ€ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€,
03:36
and the intelligence community inspector general,
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์ •๋ณด๊ตญ ๊ฐ๋…๊ด€,
03:38
any of whom would have both kept his concerns in classified channels
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๊ทธ ์ค‘ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ๋“  ๊ทธ์˜ ๊ทผ์‹ฌ์„ ๊ธฐ๋ฐ€๋กœ ์ง€ํ‚ค๋ฉด์„œ
03:42
and been happy to address them.
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๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์˜๋…ผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:45
(CA and RL speaking at once)
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(ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค์™€ ๋ฆญ์ด ๋™์‹œ์— ๋งํ•จ)
03:47
He had the option to go to congressional committees,
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๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ตญํšŒ ์œ„์›ํšŒ๋กœ ๊ทธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ ธ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
03:50
and there are mechanisms to do that that are in place,
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์ธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋„ ๋งˆ๋ จ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:53
and so he didn't do any of those things.
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๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ทธ ์ค‘ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ๋„ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:55
CA: Now, you had said that
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค: ์ง€๊ธˆ ๋‹น์‹ ์€
03:58
Ed Snowden had other avenues
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์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์ด ๊ทธ์˜ ๊ฑฑ์ •์„
04:01
for raising his concerns.
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ํ‘œํ˜„ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:03
The comeback on that is a couple of things:
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ์งš๊ณ  ๋„˜์–ด๊ฐˆ ์ ์ด ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:07
one, that he certainly believes that as a contractor,
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์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ณ„์•ฝ์ง์ด๊ณ 
04:10
the avenues that would have been available to him as an employee weren't available,
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๊ณ ์šฉ๋œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋“ค์„ ์“ธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:14
two, there's a track record of other whistleblowers,
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๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ ํ† ๋งˆ์Šค ์•ค๋“œ๋ฅ˜ ๋“œ๋ ˆ์ดํฌ์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋‚ด๋ถ€ ๊ณ ๋ฐœ์ž๋“ค์ด
04:18
like [Thomas Andrews Drake] being treated
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๋ช‡๋ช‡ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ์‹œ๊ฐ์—์„œ๋Š” ๊ฝค ์‹ฌํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋Œ€์šฐ๋ฐ›์•˜๋‹ค๋Š”
04:20
pretty harshly, by some views,
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์„ ๋ก€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
04:23
and thirdly, what he was taking on
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์„ธ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•œ ์ด์œ ๋Š”
04:25
was not one specific flaw that he'd discovered,
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๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ฐพ์•„๋‚ธ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์ธ ๊ฒฐํ•จ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
04:28
but programs that had been approved
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์ •๋ถ€์˜ ์ž…๋ฒ•๋ถ€, ํ–‰์ •๋ถ€, ์‚ฌ๋ฒ•๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ๋ชจ๋‘
04:30
by all three branches of government.
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์Šน์ธํ•œ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:33
I mean, in that circumstance,
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์ œ ๋ง์€, ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ƒํ™ฉ์†์—์„œ
04:36
couldn't you argue that what he did
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๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ ํ–‰๋™์€
04:38
was reasonable?
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ํ•ฉ๋ฆฌ์ ์ด์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
04:41
RL: No, I don't agree with that.
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๋ฆญ: ์•„๋‹ˆ์š”, ๋™์˜ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:43
I think that the โ€”
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—”,
04:47
sorry, I'm getting feedback
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์ฃ„์†กํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค, ์ด์–ดํฐ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
04:49
through the microphone there โ€”
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์กฐ์–ธ์„ ๋ฐ›๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์„œ,
04:52
the actions that he took were inappropriate
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๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ทจํ•œ ํ–‰๋™์€ ์ ์ ˆ์น˜ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:57
because of the fact that he put people's lives at risk,
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋˜ ์žฅ๊ธฐ์ ์œผ๋กœ
05:02
basically, in the long run,
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ์ƒ๋ช…์„ ์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋†“์ด๊ฒŒ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:04
and I know there's been a lot of talk
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ๊ณต๊ฐœ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŽ์€ ์–˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ๊ณ 
05:05
in public by Mr. Snowden and some of the journalists
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์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ธฐ์ž๋“ค์€
05:10
that say that the things that have been disclosed
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ํญ๋กœ๋œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์ด ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์˜ ์•ˆ๋ณด์™€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„
05:13
have not put national security and people at risk,
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์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋†“์ด๊ฒŒ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ
05:17
and that is categorically not true.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ ˆ๋Œ€ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:22
They actually do.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋†“์ด๊ฒŒ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:24
I think there's also an amazing arrogance
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—” ๊ทธ๋Š” ํ—Œ๋ฒ•์„ ์ œ์ •ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๋ณด๋‹ค.
05:26
to the idea that he knows better than
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๋” ์ž˜ ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š”
05:31
the framers of the Constitution
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์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:34
in how the government should be designed and work
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์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์„ค๊ณ„๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ  ,
05:36
for separation of powers
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๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋‚˜๋ˆ ์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ ,
05:38
and the fact that the executive and the legislative branch
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ–‰์ •๋ถ€์™€ ์ž…๋ฒ•๋ถ€๊ฐ€
05:45
have to work together and they have checks and balances on each other,
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ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ผํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์„œ๋กœ ๊ท ํ˜•์„ ๋งž์ถฐ ์ผํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค๊ณผ
05:47
and then the judicial branch,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ „์ฒด ๊ณผ์ •์„ ๊ฐ๋…ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋ฒ•๋ถ€์—
05:49
which oversees the entire process.
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๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:50
I think that's extremely arrogant on his part.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ทน๋„๋กœ ์˜ค๋งŒํ•œ ๊ทธ์˜ ๋ชจ์Šต์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:55
CA: Can you give a specific example
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ์ƒ๋ช…์„ ์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋†“์ด๊ฒŒ ํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€
05:57
of how he put people's lives at risk?
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๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์ธ ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
06:00
RL: Yeah, sure.
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๋ฆญ : ๋„ค,
06:02
So the things that he's disclosed,
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๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ํญ๋กœํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€
06:06
the capabilities,
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๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ธ๋ฐ,
06:07
and the NSA is a capabilities-based organization,
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์— ๊ธฐ๋ฐ˜ํ•œ ์กฐ์ง์ด๋ฉฐ
06:10
so when we have foreign intelligence targets,
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์™ธ๊ตญ์˜ ์ •๋ณด๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๋Œ€์ƒ์ด ์žˆ์„ ๋•Œ
06:14
legitimate things of interest --
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ํ•ฉ๋ฒ•์ ์ธ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์˜ ๋Œ€์ƒ,
06:15
like, terrorists is the iconic example,
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๊ฐ€ ๋Œ€ํ‘œ์ ์ธ ์˜ˆ์ธ๋ฐ
06:17
but it includes things like human traffickers,
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์ธ์‹ ๋งค๋งค์ƒ,
06:20
drug traffickers,
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๋ถˆ๋ฒ• ๋งˆ์•ฝ ์ƒ์ธ๋“ค,
06:22
people who are trying to build advanced weaponry, nuclear weapons,
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ์‹ ํ˜• ๋ฌด๊ธฐ, ํ•ต๋ฌด๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค๋ ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค,
06:26
and build delivery systems for those,
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์ด๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์˜ฎ๊ธฐ๋Š” ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค,
06:28
and nation-states who might be executing aggression against their immediate neighbors,
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์ด์›ƒ๋‚˜๋ผ๋ฅผ ๊ณต๊ฒฉํ• ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๋Š” ๋ฏผ์กฑ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€,
06:32
which you may have some visibility
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ ์†์—์„œ
06:34
into some of that that's going on right now,
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์•Œ์•„๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:37
the capabilities are applied
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์€
06:41
in very discrete and measured and controlled ways.
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๋งค์šฐ ์กฐ์‹ฌ์Šค๋Ÿฝ๊ณ  ํ†ต์ œ๋œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ์ ์šฉ๋˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:46
So the unconstrained disclosure of those capabilities
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ํญ๋กœํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
06:49
means that as adversaries see them
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์ ๋“ค์ด ๊ทธ๊ฑธ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ธ์‹ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:51
and recognize, "Hey, I might be vulnerable to this,"
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"์ด๋ด, ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ฉด ๋“คํ‚ฌ์ง€๋„ ๋ชฐ๋ผ."
06:54
they move away from that,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜๊ณ ,
06:55
and we have seen targets in terrorism,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ์—์„œ,
06:58
in the nation-state area,
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๋ฏผ์กฑ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ,
07:00
in smugglers of various types, and other folks
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ํ˜•ํƒœ์˜ ๋ฐ€์ˆ˜์ž…์ž์—์„œ ๋ดค๋˜ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋Œ€์ƒ๋“ค์ด
07:03
who have, because of the disclosures,
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ํญ๋กœ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
07:05
moved away from our ability
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์„ ์กฐ์‚ฌํ•˜๋Š”
07:08
to have insight into what they're doing.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋“ค์˜ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ๋ฒ—์–ด๋‚˜๋ฒ„๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:10
The net effect of that is that our people
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ํญ๋กœ์˜ ํšจ๊ณผ๋Š”
07:13
who are overseas in dangerous places,
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ํ•ด์™ธ์˜ ์œ„ํ—˜ํ•œ ๊ณณ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ์ •๋ณด์›๋“ค์ด
07:15
whether they're diplomats or military,
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์™ธ๊ต๊ด€์ด๋“  ๊ตฐ์ธ์ด๋“ ,
07:17
and our allies who are in similar situations,
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๋น„์Šทํ•œ ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋™์ง€๋“ค์ด
07:20
are at greater risk because we don't see
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๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์œ„ํ—˜ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด
07:23
the threats that are coming their way.
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๊ทธ๋“คํ•œํ…Œ ๋‹ค๊ฐ€์˜ค๋Š” ์œ„ํ˜‘์„ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ณด์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
07:26
CA: So that's a general response saying that
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์ธ ์‘๋‹ต์€
07:28
because of his revelations,
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๊ทธ์˜ ํญ๋กœ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
07:30
access that you had to certain types of information
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๊ณผ๊ฑฐ์— ์ ‘๊ทผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋˜ ์–ด๋–ค ์ •๋ณด๊ฐ€
07:33
has been shut down, has been closed down.
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๋ง‰ํ˜”๊ณ  ํ์‡„๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ง์ด๊ตฐ์š”.
07:36
But the concern is that the nature of that access
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์šฐ๋ ค๋˜๋Š” ์ ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฒ•์ด
07:40
was not necessarily legitimate in the first place.
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์ฒ˜์Œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ํ•ฉ๋ฒ•์ ์ด์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:43
I mean, describe to us this Bullrun program
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์ œ ๋ง์€, ๋ถˆ๋Ÿฐ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•  ๋•Œ
07:46
where it's alleged that the NSA
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์ด ๊ณ ์˜๋กœ
07:48
specifically weakened security
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๋ณด์•ˆ์„ ์ทจ์•ฝํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:51
in order to get the type of access that you've spoken of.
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ •๋ณด๋“ค์— ์ ‘๊ทผํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
07:55
RL: So there are, when our
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๋ฆญ : ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€
08:00
legitimate foreign intelligence targets of the type that I described before,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์•ž์—์„œ๋„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ–ˆ๋“ฏ์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ์™ธ๊ตญ์˜ ์ •๋ณด ๋Œ€์ƒ๋“ค์ด
08:03
use the global telecommunications system
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ํ†ต์‹  ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ
08:06
as their communications methodology,
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„ ํ†ต์‹  ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ์”๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:08
and they do, because it's a great system,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ์ด์œ ๋Š” ๊ต‰์žฅํ•œ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:10
it's the most complex system ever devised by man,
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ๋งŒ๋“ ๊ฒƒ์ค‘์— ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ •๊ตํ•œ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:12
and it is a wonder,
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๋†€๋ž์ฃ .
08:14
and lots of folks in the room there
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๊ทธ๊ณณ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
08:16
are responsible for the creation
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ 
08:18
and enhancement of that,
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ํ™•์žฅํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:19
and it's just a wonderful thing.
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์ •๋ง ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:22
But it's also used by people who are
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ตญ๋ฏผ์„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉํ•˜๊ณ 
08:25
working against us and our allies.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋™๋งน์„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๋„ ์“ธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:27
And so if I'm going to pursue them,
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๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์ถ”์ ํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด
08:29
I need to have the capability
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐ์‹œํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
08:31
to go after them,
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๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:33
and again, the controls are in
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๋‹ค์‹œ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ ๋งํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ํ†ต์ œ๋Š”
08:36
how I apply that capability,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ทธ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ์ ์šฉํ•˜๋Š”์ง€์— ์žˆ์ง€
08:39
not that I have the capability itself.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ ๊ทธ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:41
Otherwise, if we could make it so that
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๋‹ค๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•˜๋ฉด ๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€
08:43
all the bad guys used one corner of the Internet,
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๋ชจ๋“  ๋‚˜์œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์˜ ํ•œ ๋ชจํ‰์ด๋ฅผ ์“ด๋‹ค๋ฉด
08:45
we could have a domain, badguy.com.
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badguy.com ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ๋„๋ฉ”์ธ์„ ๊ฐ€์งˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
08:47
That would be awesome,
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์ •๋ง ์ข‹์€ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:48
and we could just concentrate all our efforts there.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์„ ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—๋งŒ ์Ÿ์•„๋ถ€์œผ๋ฉด ๋˜๊ฒ ์ง€์š”.
08:50
That's not how it works.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:52
They're trying to hide
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ํ–‰๋™์„
08:54
from the government's ability
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๊ณ ๋ฆฝ์‹œํ‚ค๊ณ  ๊ธˆ์ง€ํ•˜๋ ค๋Š”
08:56
to isolate and interdict their actions,
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์ •๋ถ€์˜ ๊ฐ์‹œ์—์„œ ๋ฒ—์–ด๋‚˜๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:59
and so we have to swim in that same space.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ณต๊ฐ„์„ ์ˆ˜์ƒ‰ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:02
But I will tell you this.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:03
So NSA has two missions.
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€ ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ž„๋ฌด๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
09:05
One is the Signals Intelligence mission
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ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š” ์‹ ํ˜ธ์ •๋ณด์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ž„๋ฌด์ธ๋ฐ
09:06
that we've unfortunately read so much about in the press.
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๋ถˆํ–‰ํžˆ๋„ ์–ธ๋ก ์—์„œ ๋งŽ์ด ๋‚˜์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:10
The other one is the Information Assurance mission,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š” ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•˜๋Š” ์ž„๋ฌด์ธ๋ฐ
09:12
which is to protect the national security systems of the United States,
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€ ์•ˆ๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:15
and by that, that's things like
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น์ด ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š”
09:17
the communications that the president uses,
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ํ†ต์‹ ์ด๋‚˜,
09:19
the communications that control our nuclear weapons,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ํ•ต๋ฌด๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ†ต์ œํ•˜๋Š” ํ†ต์‹ ,
09:21
the communications that our military uses around the world,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๊ตฐ์ด ์„ธ๊ณ„์—์„œ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ํ†ต์‹ ,
09:23
and the communications that we use with our allies,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋™๋งน ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•˜๋Š” ํ†ต์‹ ,
09:26
and that some of our allies themselves use.
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๋™๋งน ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ํ†ต์‹  ๋“ฑ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:28
And so we make recommendations on standards to use,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•  ๋•Œ ๊ธฐ์ค€์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ 
09:33
and we use those same standards,
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๋˜‘๊ฐ™์€ ๊ธฐ์ค€์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋ฉฐ
09:35
and so we are invested
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ํ†ต์‹ ์ด
09:37
in making sure that those communications
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์˜๋„๋œ ๋ชฉ์ ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด ์•ˆ์ „ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก
09:39
are secure for their intended purposes.
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ํˆฌ์ž๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:43
CA: But it sounds like what you're saying is that
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ๋ง์€
09:45
when it comes to the Internet at large,
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๋Œ€์ฒด์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์— ๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š”
09:49
any strategy is fair game
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ์•ˆ๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋ณด๊ฐ•ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
09:51
if it improves America's safety.
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์–ด๋–ค ์ „๋žต๋„ ์ •๋‹นํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋“ค๋ฆฌ๋Š”๊ตฐ์š”.
09:54
And I think this is partly where there is such
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์ด๋ถ€๋ถ„์—์„œ
09:56
a divide of opinion,
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์˜๊ฒฌ์ด ๊ฐˆ๋ฆด์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:58
that there's a lot of people in this room
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์ง€๊ธˆ ์ด๊ณณ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ
09:59
and around the world
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
10:00
who think very differently about the Internet.
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์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์— ๊ด€ํ•ด ์•„์ฃผ ๋‹ค๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:02
They think of it as a momentous
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์ด ์ธ๊ฐ„์—๊ฒŒ ๊ฐ€์žฅ
10:05
invention of humanity,
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์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ฐœ๋ช…์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:07
kind of on a par with the Gutenberg press, for example.
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด ๊ตฌํ…๋ฒ ๋ฅด๊ทธ ์ธ์‡„์™€ ๋™๊ธ‰์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ด…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:10
It's the bringer of knowledge to all.
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๋ชจ๋‘์—๊ฒŒ ์ง€์‹์„ ๊ฐ€์ ธ๋‹ค์คฌ์ฃ .
10:12
It's the connector of all.
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์ „๋ถ€์™€ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐํ•˜๊ตฌ์š”.
10:14
And it's viewed in those sort of idealistic terms.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ด์ƒ์ ์ธ ์šฉ์–ด๋กœ ๋ณด๋Š”๋ฐ
10:17
And from that lens,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ด€์ ์—์„œ ๋ณธ๋‹ค๋ฉด
10:19
what the NSA has done is equivalent to
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์—์„œ ํ•œ ์ผ์€
10:21
the authorities back in Germany
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๋…์ผ์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€
10:24
inserting some device into every printing press
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ธ์‡„๊ธฐ์— ์–ด๋–ค ์žฅ๋น„๋ฅผ ์‹ฌ์–ด ๋†“๊ณ 
10:26
that would reveal which books people bought
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ์ฑ…์„ ์‚ฌ๋Š”์ง€
10:30
and what they read.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ฌด์—‡์„ ์ฝ๋Š”์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์•Œ๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:32
Can you understand that from that viewpoint,
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ด€์ ์—์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์ดํ•ดํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
10:34
it feels outrageous?
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์ƒ๋‹นํžˆ ๋ถ„๋…ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๋‚˜์š”?
10:38
RL: I do understand that, and I actually share the view of the utility of the Internet,
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๋ฆญ : ์ €๋„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์˜ ์œ ์šฉ์„ฑ์— ๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:42
and I would argue it's bigger than the Internet.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท๋ณด๋‹ค ๋” ํฌ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:43
It is a global telecommunications system.
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„ ํ†ต์‹  ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
10:46
The Internet is a big chunk of that, but there is a lot more.
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์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท๋„ ํ†ต์‹ ์—์„œ ์ƒ๋‹นํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:48
And I think that people have legitimate concerns
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
10:52
about the balance between transparency and secrecy.
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ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ๊ณผ ๋น„๋ฐ€์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ท ํ˜•์— ๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ ์ •๋‹นํ•œ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:58
That's sort of been couched as a balance
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ๊ณผ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€ ์•ˆ๋ณด ์‚ฌ์ด์˜
11:00
between privacy and national security.
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๊ท ํ˜•์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋น„์œ ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:04
I don't think that's the right framing.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ์ ์ ˆํ•œ ๋น„์œ ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:05
I think it really is transparency and secrecy.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ๊ณผ ๋น„๋ฐ€์œ ์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋งž๋Š”๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:07
And so that's the national and international conversation that we're having,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ตญ๋‚ด์ , ๊ตญ์ œ์ ์ธ ๋Œ€ํ™”์—
11:11
and we want to participate in that, and want
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๊ณต์‹์ ์œผ๋กœ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋„ ์ฐธ์—ฌํ•˜๊ณ 
11:12
people to participate in it in an informed way.
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๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์–ป์œผ๋ฉด์„œ ์ฐธ์—ฌํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:15
So there are things,
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
11:17
let me talk there a little bit more,
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๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€๋งŒ ๋” ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฉด
11:18
there are things that we need to be transparent about:
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํˆฌ๋ช…ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ์ผ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:22
our authorities, our processes,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ถŒํ•œ, ์ผ์ฒ˜๋ฆฌ ๊ณผ์ •
11:24
our oversight, who we are.
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์‹ค์ˆ˜, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ์ง€์— ๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ์ฃ .
11:26
We, NSA, have not done a good job of that,
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ž˜ ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ๊ณ 
11:28
and I think that's part of the reason
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๋ถ€๋ถ„์ ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ๊ทธ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
11:29
that this has been so revelational
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์–ธ๋ก ์— ๋ณด๋„๋˜์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ
11:32
and so sensational in the media.
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๊นœ์ง ๋†€๋ž„๋งŒํผ ๋งŽ์ด ๋“œ๋Ÿฌ๋‚ฌ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:34
Nobody knew who we were. We were the No Such Agency, the Never Say Anything.
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์•„๋ฌด๋„ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋ชฐ๋ž๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋‹จ์ฒด๊ฐ€ ์—†์—ˆ๊ณ  ์•„๋ฌด๊ฒƒ๋„ ๋งํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:38
There's takeoffs of our logo
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋กœ๊ณ ๋ฅผ ๋–ผ์–ด๋‚ด์„œ
11:41
of an eagle with headphones on around it.
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ํ—ค๋“œํฐ์„ ๋‚€ ๋…์ˆ˜๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋„ฃ์—ˆ์ฃ .
11:44
And so that's the public characterization.
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๋Œ€์ค‘๋“ค์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋Š” ์‹œ๊ฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:47
And so we need to be more transparent about those things.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ํˆฌ๋ช…ํ•ด์งˆ ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:52
What we don't need to be transparent about,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ณต๊ฐœํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•„๋„ ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
11:53
because it's bad for the U.S.,
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—๊ฒŒ ๋‚˜์˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด๊ณ ,
11:56
it's bad for all those other countries that we work with
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์™€ ๊ฐ™์ด ์ผํ•˜๋Š” ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ๋„ ์•ˆ์ข‹๊ณ 
11:58
and that we help provide information
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๋˜ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•ด์„œ
12:00
that helps them secure themselves
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ์ž๊ตญ๋ฏผ์„
12:02
and their people,
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์ž๊ตญ๋ฏผ์„ ์ง€ํ‚ฌ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋„์™€์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:03
it's bad to expose operations and capabilities
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ณผ์ •๊ณผ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ๋…ธ์ถœ๋˜๋ฉด
12:07
in a way that allows the people that we're all working against,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‹ธ์šฐ๋ ค๋Š” ์ ๋“ค,
12:13
the generally recognized bad guys,
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์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋‚˜์œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ธ์‹๋œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
12:18
to counter those.
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์—ญ์Šตํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:20
CA: But isn't it also bad to deal
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด๊ฒƒ์€
12:23
a kind of body blow to the American companies
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ์„œ๋น„์Šค๋ฅผ
12:26
that have essentially given the world
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„์— ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๋Š”
12:28
most of the Internet services that matter?
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“คํ•œํ…Œ ์ปค๋‹ค๋ž€ ์†์‹ค์ด ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๋‚˜์š”?
12:33
RL: It is. It's really the companies are
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๋ฆญ : ๊ทธ๋ ‡์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์€
12:37
in a tough position, as are we,
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์ €ํฌ์™€ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:40
because the companies,
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํšŒ์‚ฌ์—๊ฒŒ
12:42
we compel them to provide information,
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์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ๊ฐ•์š”ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:44
just like every other nation in the world does.
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:46
Every industrialized nation in the world
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๋ชจ๋“  ์„ ์ง„๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€
12:50
has a lawful intercept program
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ํ•ฉ๋ฒ•์ ์ธ ๋„์ฒญ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:52
where they are requiring companies
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์ •๋ถ€๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“คํ•œํ…Œ
12:54
to provide them with information
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์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ์š”๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ
12:56
that they need for their security,
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์•ˆ๋ณด๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:57
and the companies that are involved
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์€
13:00
have complied with those programs
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ๋”ฐ๋ฅด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ
13:01
in the same way that they have to do
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ํšŒ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€
13:03
when they're operating in Russia or the U.K.
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๋Ÿฌ์‹œ์•„๋‚˜ ์˜๊ตญ,
13:06
or China or India or France,
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์ค‘๊ตญ์ด๋‚˜ ์ธ๋„ ๋˜๋Š” ํ”„๋ž‘์Šค์—์„œ ์šด์˜ํ•  ๋•Œ๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:10
any country that you choose to name.
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์–ด๋–ค ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“  ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋”ฐ๋ผ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:12
And so the fact that these revelations
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ํญ๋กœ๋Š”
13:17
have been broadly characterized as
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์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํŠน์ง•์ง“์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:20
"you can't trust company A because
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"๋‹น์‹ ์€ ํšŒ์‚ฌ A๋ฅผ ๋ฏฟ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์–ด์š”.
13:21
your privacy is suspect with them"
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์ด ์นจํ•ด๋ฐ›์œผ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”."
13:25
is actually only accurate in the sense that
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์ด๋ง์€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฉด์—์„œ ์ •ํ™•ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:29
it's accurate with every other company in the world
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค์„ ์ƒ๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š”
13:32
that deals with any of those countries in the world.
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์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ํšŒ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค ๊ทธ๋ ‡์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:34
And so it's being picked up by people
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ ์„ ๊ณจ๋ผ์„œ
13:36
as a marketing advantage,
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ํ™๋ณด ํšจ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๋…ธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ 
13:38
and it's being marketed that way by several countries,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋™๋งน๊ตญ๋“ค์„ ํฌํ•จํ•œ
13:39
including some of our allied countries,
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๋ช‡๋ช‡ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ™๋ณดํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:41
where they are saying,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ง์€
13:42
"Hey, you can't trust the U.S.,
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"๋ณด์„ธ์š”. ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์€ ๋ฏฟ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์–ด์š”.
13:44
but you can trust our telecom company,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ํ†ต์‹ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋Š” ๋ฏฟ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
13:47
because we're safe."
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์•ˆ์ „ํ•˜๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”."
13:48
And they're actually using that to counter
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ
13:50
the very large technological edge
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์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท๊ณผ ํด๋ผ์šฐ๋“œ๋ฅผ ๊ธฐ๋ฐ˜์œผ๋กœ ํ•œ ์˜์—ญ์—์„œ
13:52
that U.S. companies have
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€์ง„ ์•„์ฃผ ํฐ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์  ์šฐ์œ„๋ฅผ
13:54
in areas like the cloud and Internet-based technologies.
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๊ณต๊ฒฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:58
CA: You're sitting there with the American flag,
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๊ตญ๊ธฐ ์•ž์— ์•‰์•„ ์žˆ๊ณ 
14:01
and the American Constitution guarantees
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ ํ—Œ๋ฒ•์—์„œ๋Š”
14:04
freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
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๋น„ํ•ฉ๋ฆฌ์ ์ธ ๊ฐ์‹œ์™€ ํ†ต์ œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ž์œ ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์žฅํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:07
How do you characterize
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด
14:09
the American citizen's right to privacy?
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•˜์‹ค๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
14:13
Is there such a right?
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ฆฌ๋„ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
14:16
RL: Yeah, of course there is.
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๋ฆญ : ๋ฌผ๋ก  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:18
And we devote an inordinate amount of time and pressure,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง€๋‚˜์น˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŽ์€ ์‹œ๊ฐ„๊ณผ ์••๋ ฅ,
14:22
inordinate and appropriate, actually I should say,
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๊ณผ๋„ํ•œ ์•„๋‹ˆ ์ ์ ˆํ•œ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ด์•ผ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
14:24
amount of time and effort in order to ensure
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์ ์ ˆํ•œ ์–‘์˜ ์‹œ๊ฐ„๊ณผ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์„ ์Ÿ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
14:26
that we protect that privacy.
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์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์„ ์ง€ํ‚ค๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:28
and beyond that, the privacy of citizens
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๋” ๋‚˜์•„๊ฐ€์„œ, ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์€
14:31
around the world, it's not just Americans.
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ๋งŒ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ ์ „์„ธ๊ณ„์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:35
Several things come into play here.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋” ์งš๊ณ  ๋„˜์–ด๊ฐ€์•ผํ•  ์ ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:37
First, we're all in the same network.
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์ฒซ์งธ๋กœ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋˜‘๊ฐ™์€ ๋„คํŠธ์›Œํฌ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:39
My communications,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ํ†ต์‹ ์€
14:40
I'm a user of a particular Internet email service
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์ €๋Š” ํŠน์ •ํ•œ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ์ด๋ฉ”์ผ ์„œ๋น„์Šค ์‚ฌ์šฉ์ž์ด๋ฉฐ
14:44
that is the number one email service of choice
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ „์„ธ๊ณ„ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๋“ค์ด
14:48
by terrorists around the world, number one.
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์ œ์ผ ๋งŽ์ด ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ์ด๋ฉ”์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:50
So I'm there right beside them in email space
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ์ƒ์˜
14:53
in the Internet.
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์ด๋ฉ”์ผ ๊ณต๊ฐ„์—์„œ ๊ทธ๋“ค ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์˜†์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:55
And so we need to be able to pick that apart
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ด€๋ จ์žˆ๋Š” ์ •๋ณด๋“ค์„
14:58
and find the information that's relevant.
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์„ ๋ณ„ํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:05
In doing so, we're going to necessarily encounter
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ•„์—ฐ์ ์œผ๋กœ
15:08
Americans and innocent foreign citizens
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ธ๋“ค๊ณผ ์ฃ„์—†๋Š” ์™ธ๊ตญ ์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ด
15:10
who are just going about their business,
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์ž๊ธฐ ์‚ฌ์—…์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
15:12
and so we have procedures in place that shreds that out,
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ ๊ฑธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ณผ์ •๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:14
that says, when you find that,
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋ƒˆ์„ ๋•Œ,
15:17
not if you find it, when you find it, because you're certain to find it,
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์ฐพ์œผ๋ฉด์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ, ์ฐพ์•„๋ƒˆ์„๋•Œ, ์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ฐพ์•„๋ƒˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ™•์‹ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
15:19
here's how you protect that.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:21
These are called minimization procedures.
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ตœ์†Œํ™” ๊ณผ์ •์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:23
They're approved by the attorney general
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ๋ฒ•๋ฌด ์žฅ๊ด€์ด๋‚˜
15:25
and constitutionally based.
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ํ—Œ๋ฒ•์— ๊ธฐ์ดˆํ•ด์„œ ์Šน์ธ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:26
And so we protect those.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:29
And then, for people, citizens of the world
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ „์„ธ๊ณ„์— ์žˆ๋Š” ์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ด
15:33
who are going about their lawful business
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ํ•ฉ๋ฒ•์ ์ธ ์‚ฌ์—…์„
15:35
on a day-to-day basis,
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์ผ์ƒ ์—…๋ฌด๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ
15:37
the president on his January 17 speech,
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๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น๊ป˜์„œ 1์›” 17์ผ์— ํ•˜์‹  ์—ฐ์„ค์—์„œ
15:39
laid out some additional protections
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์ถ”๊ฐ€์ ์ธ ๋ณดํ˜ธ ์žฅ์น˜๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๋†“์•˜๋Š”๋ฐ
15:41
that we are providing to them.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฑธ ์ œ๊ณตํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:43
So I think absolutely,
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š”
15:45
folks do have a right to privacy,
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
15:46
and that we work very hard to make sure
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ ๋ณดํ˜ธ๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•ด
15:49
that that right to privacy is protected.
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์—„์ฒญ๋‚˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŽ์€ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์„ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:52
CA: What about foreigners using
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ํšŒ์‚ฌ์˜ ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ์„œ๋น„์Šค๋ฅผ
15:53
American companies' Internet services?
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์ด์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ์™ธ๊ตญ์ธ๋“ค์€ ์–ด๋–ค๊ฐ€์š”?
15:55
Do they have any privacy rights?
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
15:59
RL: They do. They do, in the sense of,
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๋ฆญ : ๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ . ๋‹น์—ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ ์—์„œ
16:02
the only way that we are able to compel
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ 
16:08
one of those companies to provide us information
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๊ฐ•์š”ํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์œ ์ผํ•œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€
16:10
is when it falls into one of three categories:
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๋‹ค์Œ 3๊ฐ€์ง€ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์— ํ•ด๋‹นํ•  ๋•Œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:13
We can identify that this particular person,
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ํŠน์ •ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์„
16:17
identified by a selector of some kind,
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ์„ ๋ณ„๋‹จ์ด ์ง€๋ชฉํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ
16:19
is associated with counterterrorist
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ์™€ ๊ด€๋ จ์ด ์žˆ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
16:23
or proliferation or other foreign intelligence target.
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ํ•ตํ™•์‚ฐ์ด๋‚˜ ์™ธ๊ตญ ์ •๋ณด๋ถ€ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ์ด ์žˆ์„ ๋•Œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:28
CA: Much has been made of the fact that
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์ด๋“ค ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ
16:30
a lot of the information that you've obtained
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๋ชจ์€ ์ •๋ณด์˜ ์ƒ๋‹นํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด
16:32
through these programs is essentially metadata.
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๋ฉ”ํƒ€๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋กœ ๋ฐํ˜€์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:35
It's not necessarily the actual words
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๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฉ”์ผ์— ์“ฐ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
16:37
that someone has written in an email
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์ „ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•  ๋•Œ ํ•œ
16:38
or given on a phone call.
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๋ง์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:40
It's who they wrote to and when, and so forth.
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๋ˆ„๊ตฌํ•œํ…Œ ์“ด ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ , ์–ธ์ œ ์ผ๋Š”์ง€ ๊ฐ™์€ ์ •๋ณด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:44
But it's been argued,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ๋…ผ๋ž€๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:45
and someone here in the audience has talked
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ์ฒญ์ค‘ ํ•œ๋ถ„์ด
16:48
to a former NSA analyst who said
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์ „ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ ๋ถ„์„๊ฐ€์™€ ์–˜๊ธฐํ•œ ์ ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
16:50
metadata is actually much more invasive
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๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š” ํ•ต์‹ฌ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋ณด๋‹ค
16:52
than the core data,
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๋” ์นจํ•ดํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋˜๋ฐ์š”.
16:54
because in the core data
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ํ•ต์‹ฌ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š”
16:55
you present yourself as you want to be presented.
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๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
16:58
With metadata, who knows what the conclusions are
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š”
17:01
that are drawn?
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์„ ๋„์ถœํ•  ์ง€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์•Œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
17:02
Is there anything to that?
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์–ด๋–ค ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด ์žˆ์œผ์‹ ๊ฐ€์š”?
17:04
RL: I don't really understand that argument.
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๋ฆญ : ์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ ๋…ผ์ ์„ ์ž˜ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๊ฒ ๊ตฐ์š”.
17:06
I think that metadata's important for a couple of reasons.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š” ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ด์œ ๋กœ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:09
Metadata is the information that lets you
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๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š” ์ˆจ์œผ๋ ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜
17:13
find connections that people are trying to hide.
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์—ฐ๊ด€์„ฑ์„ ์ฐพ์•„์ค๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:17
So when a terrorist is corresponding
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์–ด๋–ค ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๊ฐ€
17:19
with somebody else who's not known to us
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์•Œ์ง€๋ชปํ•œ ์–ด๋–ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๊ณผ ์†Œํ†ตํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
17:21
but is engaged in doing or supporting terrorist activity,
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌํ™œ๋™์„ ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋„์šธ ๋•Œ,
17:23
or someone who's violating international sanctions
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๋˜๋Š” ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ํ•ต๋ฌด๊ธฐ์™€ ๊ด€๋ จ๋œ ๋ฌผ์งˆ์„
17:26
by providing nuclear weapons-related material
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์ด๋ž€๊ณผ ๋ถํ•œ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋‚˜๋ผ์— ๊ณต๊ธ‰ํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ
17:29
to a country like Iran or North Korea,
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๊ตญ์ œ ์ œ์žฌ๋ฅผ ์–ด๊ธธ ๋•Œ,
17:31
is trying to hide that activity because it's illicit activity.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ™œ๋™์„ ์ˆจ๊ธฐ๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๋ช…๋ฐฑํ•œ ๋ถˆ๋ฒ•์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:35
What metadata lets you do is connect that.
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๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๊ฐ€ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐํ•ด์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
17:37
The alternative to that
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๊ทธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋Œ€์•ˆ์œผ๋กœ๋Š”
17:39
is one that's much less efficient
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๋” ๋น„ํšจ์œจ์ ์ด๊ณ 
17:41
and much more invasive of privacy,
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๋” ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์„ ์นจํ•ดํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋Š”
17:42
which is gigantic amounts of content collection.
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๊ด‘๋ฒ”์œ„ํ•œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์˜ ์ˆ˜์ง‘์ด ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:46
So metadata, in that sense,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋ฉด์—์„œ
17:47
actually is privacy-enhancing.
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์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ์„ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:50
And we don't, contrary to some of the stuff
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๊ธฐ์‚ฌ๋กœ ๋‚˜๊ฐ„ ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ๋Š”
17:52
that's been printed,
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ
17:53
we don't sit there and grind out
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ ์•‰์•„์„œ ์ผ๋ฐ˜ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
17:56
metadata profiles of average people.
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๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋ฅผ ์ž‘์„ฑํ•˜์ง€๋„ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:59
If you're not connected
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ํƒ€๋‹นํ•œ ์ •๋ณด์˜ ๋Œ€์ƒ๊ณผ
18:01
to one of those valid intelligence targets,
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๊ด€๋ จ์ด ์—†๋‹ค๋ฉด
18:04
you are not of interest to us.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ด€์‹ฌ ๋Œ€์ƒ์ด ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:08
CA: So in terms of the threats
404
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ด ๋งž์„œ๋Š”
18:11
that face America overall,
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์ „๋ฐ˜์ ์ธ ์œ„ํ˜‘๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด,
18:13
where would you place terrorism?
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ฆ˜์„ ๋ช‡ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
18:16
RL: I think terrorism is still number one.
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๋ฆญ : ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ฆ˜์€ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:19
I think that we have never been in a time
408
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ „๋ก€์—†์ด
18:23
where there are more places
409
1103701
1991
๋” ๋งŽ์€ ๊ณณ์—์„œ
18:25
where things are going badly
410
1105692
2853
์ƒํ™ฉ์ด ์ž๊พธ ๋‚˜๋น ์ง€๊ณ 
18:28
and forming the petri dish in which terrorists
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๊ด€๋ฆฌ ๋ถ€์กฑ์„ ํ‹ˆํƒ€
18:32
take advantage of the lack of governance.
412
1112446
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๊ฐ€ ํŒ์„ ์น˜๋Š” ์‹œ๋Œ€์— ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:37
An old boss of mine, Tom Fargo, Admiral Fargo,
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์ €์˜ ์˜› ์ƒ๊ด€์ธ ํ†ฐ ํŒŒ๊ณ  (Tom Fargo), ํŒŒ๊ณ  ์ œ๋…์€
18:41
used to describe it as arcs of instability.
414
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๋ถˆ์•ˆ์ • ์›ํ˜•์ง€๋Œ€๋กœ ๋ฌ˜์‚ฌํ•˜๊ณค ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:43
And so you have a lot of those arcs of instability
415
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋ถˆ์•ˆ์ • ์›ํ˜•์ง€๋Œ€๊ฐ€
18:45
in the world right now,
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์ „์„ธ๊ณ„์— ๋งŽ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:47
in places like Syria, where there's a civil war
417
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1837
์‹œ๋ฆฌ์•„ ๊ฐ™์ด ๋‚ด์ „์ด
18:49
going on and you have massive numbers,
418
1129504
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ํ•œ์ฐฝ ์ง„ํ–‰์ค‘์ธ ๊ณณ์—์„œ๋Š”
18:52
thousands and thousands of foreign fighters
419
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ์™ธ๊ตญ์ธ ์šฉ๋ณ‘๋“ค์ด
18:53
who are coming into Syria
420
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์‹œ๋ฆฌ์•„๋กœ ๋“ค์–ด์™€์„œ
18:55
to learn how to be terrorists
421
1135682
1503
ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๋Š” ๋ฒ•์„ ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๊ณ 
18:57
and practice that activity,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ™œ๋™์„ ํ›ˆ๋ จํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:59
and lots of those people are Westerners
423
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๊ทธ๋“ค ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ์„œ์–‘ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ธ๋ฐ
19:01
who hold passports to European countries
424
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์œ ๋Ÿฝ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์˜ ์—ฌ๊ถŒ์ด๋‚˜
19:05
or in some cases the United States,
425
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์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์—” ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ์—ฌ๊ถŒ์„ ์†Œ์ง€ํ•˜๋ฉฐ
19:07
and so they are basically learning how
426
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์ง€ํ•˜๋“œ์— ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋Š” ๋ฒ•์„ ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๊ณ 
19:09
to do jihad and have expressed intent
427
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์ž๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ํƒœ์–ด๋‚œ ๋‚˜๋ผ์—์„œ
19:13
to go out and do that later on
428
1153347
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๋‚˜์ค‘์— ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ™œ๋™์„ ํ•˜๊ฒ ๋‹ค๊ณ 
19:15
in their home countries.
429
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์˜์‚ฌํ‘œ์‹œ๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:17
You've got places like Iraq,
430
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์ด๋ผํฌ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋ฐ๋Š”
19:18
which is suffering from a high level of sectarian violence,
431
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์ข…ํŒŒ๊ฐ„์˜ ๊ฐˆ๋“ฑ์ด ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ 
19:21
again a breeding ground for terrorism.
432
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ธ์ œ๋“ ์ง€ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ณณ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:24
And you have the activity in the Horn of Africa
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด ๋ถ๋™๋ถ€์™€
19:26
and the Sahel area of Africa.
434
1166687
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์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด ์‚ฌํ—ฌ์ง€๋Œ€์—์„œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ™œ๋™์ด ๋ณด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค..
19:29
Again, lots of weak governance
435
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2528
๋‹ค์‹œ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ ๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด ์•ฝํ•œ ์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€
19:32
which forms a breeding ground for terrorist activity.
436
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ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ์˜ ์˜จ์ƒ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:36
So I think it's very serious. I think it's number one.
437
1176153
1994
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:38
I think number two is cyber threat.
438
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๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์ด๋ฒ„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:40
I think cyber is a threat in three ways:
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1180401
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ์‚ฌ์ด๋ฒ„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์€ 3๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ ์ด๋ฃจ์–ด์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:46
One way, and probably the most common way
440
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์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€ ์•„๋งˆ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋งŽ์ด
19:49
that people have heard about it,
441
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๋“ค์–ด๋ณธ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํ”ํ•œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ธ๋ฐ
19:52
is due to the theft of intellectual property,
442
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2000
์ง€์  ์žฌ์‚ฐ์„ ํ›”์น˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:54
so basically, foreign countries going in,
443
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๊ทผ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค์ด ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ€์„œ
19:58
stealing companies' secrets,
444
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ํšŒ์‚ฌ์˜ ๋น„๋ฐ€์„ ํ›”์น˜๊ณ 
20:00
and then providing that information
445
1200292
1998
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ •๋ณด๋“ค์„
20:02
to state-owned enterprises
446
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๊ตญ์œ ๊ธฐ์—…์—๊ฒŒ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
20:04
or companies connected to the government
447
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2949
์ •๋ถ€์™€ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐ๋œ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
20:06
to help them leapfrog technology
448
1206976
2503
๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ๋›ฐ์–ด๋„˜์„์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋„์™€์ฃผ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
20:09
or to gain business intelligence
449
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๊ธฐ์—… ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋” ์–ป์–ด์„œ
20:11
that's then used to win contracts overseas.
450
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ํ•ด์™ธ ์ˆ˜์ฃผ๋ฅผ ๋”ฐ๋„๋ก ์ด์šฉ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:14
That is a hugely costly set of activities that's going on right now.
451
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์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ์ง€๊ธˆ ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๋Š” ํ™œ๋™์œผ๋กœ ๋น„์šฉ์ด ๋งŽ์ด ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:17
Several nation-states are doing it.
452
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๋ช‡๋ช‡ ๋ฏผ์กฑ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
20:19
Second is the denial-of-service attacks.
453
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๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ๋Š” ์„œ๋น„์Šค ๊ฑฐ๋ถ€ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:22
You're probably aware that there have been
454
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค๋„ ์ด๋ฏธ ์•Œ๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹คํ…๋ฐ
20:24
a spate of those directed against
455
1224032
1971
2012๋…„์— ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๊ธˆ์œต ๋ถ€๋ฌธ์„
20:26
the U.S. financial sector since 2012.
456
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๋Œ€๋Ÿ‰ ๊ณต๊ฒฉํ•œ ์ ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:29
Again, that's a nation-state who is executing those attacks,
457
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฏผ์กฑ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋Š”
20:32
and they're doing that
458
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€
20:33
as a semi-anonymous way of reprisal.
459
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๋ฐ˜ ์ต๋ช…์„œ๋กœ ๋ณด๋ณต์ ์ธ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:38
And the last one is destructive attacks,
460
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰์€ ํŒŒ๊ดด์ ์ธ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ธ๋ฐ
20:39
and those are the ones that concern me the most.
461
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์ด ๊ฑฑ์ •ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ด๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:40
Those are on the rise.
462
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๋“ค์ด ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:42
You have the attack against Saudi Aramco in 2012,
463
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2012๋…„ 8์›”์—๋Š” ์‚ฌ์šฐ๋”” ์•„๋žŒ์ฝ”์—
20:45
August of 2012.
464
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๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:47
It took down about 35,000 of their computers
465
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35,000๋Œ€์˜ ์ปดํ“จํ„ฐ๊ฐ€
20:49
with a Wiper-style virus.
466
1249955
1792
์™€์ดํผ ์Šคํƒ€์ผ์˜ ๋ฐ”์ด๋Ÿฌ์Šค๋กœ ๋‹ค์šด๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:51
You had a follow-on a week later
467
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ํ•œ ์ฃผ๋’ค์—๋Š” ์นดํƒ€๋ฆฌ ํšŒ์‚ฌ์—
20:53
to a Qatari company.
468
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1534
ํ›„์† ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:55
You had March of 2013,
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2013๋…„ 3์›”์—๋Š”
20:57
you had a South Korean attack
470
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๋‚จํ•œ์ด ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๋‹นํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
21:00
that was attributed in the press to North Korea
471
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์–ธ๋ก ์—์„œ๋Š” ๋ถํ•œ์ด ํ•œ ์ผ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ถ”์ธกํ–ˆ๊ณ 
21:02
that took out thousands of computers.
472
1262439
2055
์ปดํ“จํ„ฐ ์ˆ˜์ฒœ ๋Œ€๊ฐ€ ๋ง๊ฐ€์กŒ์ฃ .
21:04
Those are on the rise,
473
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ 
21:05
and we see people expressing interest
474
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์—
21:08
in those capabilities
475
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๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๊ณ 
21:09
and a desire to employ them.
476
1269849
2017
๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์ฑ„์šฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:11
CA: Okay, so a couple of things here,
477
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์•Œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋” ์งš๊ณ  ๋„˜์–ด๊ฐ€์ฃ .
21:13
because this is really the core of this, almost.
478
1273432
1942
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํ•ต์‹ฌ์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
21:15
I mean, first of all,
479
1275374
1264
์ œ๋ง์€ ์ฒซ์งธ๋กœ
21:16
a lot of people who look at risk
480
1276638
1558
๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์œ„ํ˜‘์„ ๋ณด๊ณ 
21:18
and look at the numbers
481
1278196
1217
๋งŽ์€ ์ˆซ์ž๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด์„œ
21:19
don't understand this belief that terrorism
482
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2260
ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์œ„ํ˜‘์ ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๋ฏฟ์Œ์„
21:21
is still the number one threat.
483
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1884
์ดํ•ดํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:23
Apart from September 11,
484
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9.11์„ ์ œ์™ธํ•˜๊ณ ๋Š” ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
21:25
I think the numbers are that in the last 30 or 40 years
485
1285185
2355
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ˆซ์ž๋“ค์ด ์ง€๋‚œ 30~40๋…„๋™์•ˆ
21:27
about 500 Americans have died from terrorism,
486
1287540
3101
500๋ช… ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์ด ๋˜๋Š” ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ธ๋“ค์ด ์ฃฝ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
21:30
mostly from homegrown terrorists.
487
1290641
3983
๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ์ž๊ตญ์—์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋กœ ํฌ์ƒ๋‹นํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:34
The chance in the last few years
488
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์ง€๋‚œ ๋ช‡ ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋กœ
21:36
of being killed by terrorism
489
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1723
์ฃฝ์„ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅ์„ฑ์€
21:37
is far less than the chance of being killed by lightning.
490
1297934
3984
๋ฒˆ๊ฐœ์— ๋งž์•„ ์ฃฝ์„ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅ์„ฑ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋‚ฎ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:41
I guess you would say that a single nuclear incident
491
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์•„๋งˆ ํ•ต๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ๋œ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์ด๋‚˜
21:45
or bioterrorism act or something like that
492
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3326
์ƒํ™”ํ•™ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ ๊ฐ™์€ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ˆซ์ž๋ฅผ
21:48
would change those numbers.
493
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1901
๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•  ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์€๋ฐ
21:50
Would that be the point of view?
494
1310551
2162
์ด๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์„ค๋ช…ํ•ด ์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
21:52
RL: Well, I'd say two things.
495
1312713
1176
๋ฆญ : ๊ธ€์Ž„์š”, ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:53
One is, the reason that there hasn't been
496
1313889
1926
์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋กœ 9/11 ์ดํ›„์— ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ
21:55
a major attack in the United States since 9/11,
497
1315815
1810
ํฐ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ด ์—†์—ˆ๋˜ ์ด์œ ๋Š”
21:57
that is not an accident.
498
1317625
1556
์šฐ์—ฐ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:59
That's a lot of hard work that we have done,
499
1319181
2186
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ์„ ํ–ˆ๊ณ ,
22:01
that other folks
500
1321367
1381
์ •๋ณด๊ธฐ๊ด€์— ์†ํ•ด์žˆ๋Š”
22:02
in the intelligence community have done,
501
1322748
1383
์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ์„ ํ–ˆ๊ณ ,
22:04
that the military has done,
502
1324131
1181
๊ตฐ์ธ๋“ค,
22:05
and that our allies around the globe have done.
503
1325312
2048
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋™๋งน๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ์„ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:07
You've heard the numbers about
504
1327360
2451
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋“ค์—ˆ๋˜ ์ˆซ์ž๋“ค์€
22:09
the tip of the iceberg in terms
505
1329811
2532
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์ด ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์— ๋Œ€์ฒ˜ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค ๊ฐ€์šด๋ฐ
22:12
of numbers of terrorist attacks that NSA programs
506
1332343
2570
๋น™์‚ฐ์˜ ์ผ๊ฐ์ผ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:14
contributed to stopping was 54,
507
1334913
2759
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ง‰์•˜๋˜ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ 54๊ฐœ์ค‘
22:17
25 of those in Europe,
508
1337672
1822
25๊ฐœ๋Š” ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์—,
22:19
and of those 25,
509
1339494
2130
๊ทธ 25๊ฐœ ์ค‘ 18๊ฐœ๋Š”
22:21
18 of them occurred in three countries,
510
1341624
2605
3๊ฐœ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ๋Š”๋ฐ
22:24
some of which are our allies,
511
1344229
1863
๋ช‡ ๊ฐœ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋™๋งน๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ๊ณ ,
22:26
and some of which are beating the heck out of us
512
1346092
2199
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ช‡ ๊ฐœ๋Š” ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์˜ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„
22:28
over the NSA programs, by the way.
513
1348291
4477
์ •๋ง ๋ฐ”์˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:32
So that's not an accident that those things happen.
514
1352768
2692
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ์šฐ์—ฐ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:35
That's hard work. That's us finding intelligence
515
1355460
2325
์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ ํ™œ๋™์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
22:37
on terrorist activities
516
1357785
1830
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์•„๋‚ธ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
22:39
and interdicting them through one way or another,
517
1359615
1574
๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์ฐจ๋‹จํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€
22:41
through law enforcement,
518
1361189
1331
๋ฒ• ์ง‘ํ–‰,
22:42
through cooperative activities with other countries
519
1362520
2830
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋‚˜๋ผ์™€์˜ ํ˜‘๋ ฅ,
22:45
and sometimes through military action.
520
1365350
3116
๋•Œ๋กœ๋Š” ๊ตฐ์‚ฌ์ ์ธ ํ–‰๋™์œผ๋กœ ๋ง‰์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:48
The other thing I would say is that
521
1368466
2893
์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
22:51
your idea of nuclear or chem-bio-threat
522
1371359
5266
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ํ•ต ๋˜๋Š” ์ƒํ™”ํ•™ ์œ„ํ˜‘์ด
22:56
is not at all far-fetched
523
1376625
1516
ํ„ฐ๋ฌด๋‹ˆ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
22:58
and in fact there are a number of groups
524
1378141
1738
์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ–๋Š”
22:59
who have for several years expressed interest
525
1379879
1887
์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ช‡ ๋…„์ „๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋งŽ์ด ์กด์žฌํ•ด ์™”์—ˆ๊ณ 
23:01
and desire in obtaining those capabilities
526
1381766
2540
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ์–ป์œผ๋ ค ํ•˜๊ณ 
23:04
and work towards that.
527
1384306
1760
๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ ค๊ณ  ์ผํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:06
CA: It's also been said that,
528
1386066
1576
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์‹œ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ
23:07
of those 54 alleged incidents,
529
1387642
2700
54๊ฐœ์˜ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด๋“ค ์ค‘์—,
23:10
that as few as zero of them
530
1390342
1848
์ ๊ฒŒ๋Š” ๊ทธ ์–ด๋Š ๊ฒƒ๋„
23:12
were actually anything to do
531
1392190
1062
์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ํญ๋กœํ•œ
23:13
with these controversial programs
532
1393252
1847
๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ๋˜๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ๊ณผ๋Š”
23:15
that Mr. Snowden revealed,
533
1395099
3732
์•„๋ฌด ์ƒ๊ด€์ด ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:18
that it was basically through other forms of intelligence,
534
1398831
3917
์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ทผ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋ชจ์œผ๋Š” ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ˜•ํƒœ์ด๋ฉฐ,
23:22
that you're looking for a needle in a haystack,
535
1402748
2890
๋งˆ์น˜ ๊ฑด์ดˆ๋”๋ฏธ์—์„œ ๋ฐ”๋Š˜์„ ์ฐพ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:25
and the effects of these programs,
536
1405638
1562
์ด๋“ค ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์ด ๋ฏธ์น˜๋Š” ์˜ํ–ฅ์€,
23:27
these controversial programs,
537
1407200
1031
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…ผ๋ž€์ด ๋˜๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์€,
23:28
is just to add hay to the stack,
538
1408231
2072
๊ฑด์ดˆ๋”๋ฏธ์— ๊ฑด์ดˆ๋ฅผ ์ถ”๊ฐ€ํ•  ๋ฟ์ด๋ฉฐ,
23:30
not to really find the needle.
539
1410303
1580
์ง„์งœ ๋ฐ”๋Š˜์€ ์ฐพ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:31
The needle was found by other methods.
540
1411883
2082
๋ฐ”๋Š˜์„ ์ฐพ์œผ๋ ค๋ฉด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:33
Isn't there something to that?
541
1413965
4124
์ด๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ• ๋ง์ด ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
23:38
RL: No, there's actually two programs
542
1418089
2408
๋ฆญ : ์•„๋‡จ, ์‚ฌ์‹ค ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ๋ถˆ๋Ÿฌ์˜จ
23:40
that are typically implicated in that discussion.
543
1420497
2417
๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:42
One is the section 215 program,
544
1422914
2478
ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š” 215์กฐ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ,
23:45
the U.S. telephony metadata program,
545
1425392
2978
๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ์ „ํ™” ๋ฉ”ํƒ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์ด๊ณ ,
23:48
and the other one is
546
1428370
2040
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”,
23:50
popularly called the PRISM program,
547
1430410
1594
๋งŽ์ด ์•Œ๋ ค์ง„ PRISM ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์ธ๋ฐ,
23:52
and it's actually section 702 of the FISA Amendment Act.
548
1432004
3248
ํ•ด์™ธ์ •๋ณด๊ฐ๋…๋ฒ•(FISA) ์กฐ์ •๋ฒ•์˜ 702์กฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:55
But the 215 program
549
1435252
4190
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ 215ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์€
23:59
is only relevant to threats
550
1439442
1727
์˜ค๋กœ์ง€ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
24:01
that are directed against the United States,
551
1441169
2259
์œ„ํ˜‘๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ์žˆ๊ณ 
24:03
and there have been a dozen threats
552
1443428
2900
12 ๊ฑด์˜ ์œ„ํ˜‘์ด
24:06
where that was implicated.
553
1446328
1315
์—ฐ๋ฃจ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:07
Now what you'll see people say publicly
554
1447643
3189
์ง€๊ธˆ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๊ณต๊ฐœ์ ์œผ๋กœ
24:10
is there is no "but for" case,
555
1450832
2036
"๋งŒ์ผ ์—†์—ˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด"์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋Š” ์—†์—ˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
24:12
and so there is no case where, but for that,
556
1452868
3813
๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์—†์—ˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
24:16
the threat would have happened.
557
1456681
1701
์œ„ํ˜‘์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ์„๊นŒ๋ผ๊ณ ๋Š” ๋ง์„ ๋ชปํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:18
But that actually indicates a lack of understanding
558
1458382
4207
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๋“ค์˜ ์ˆ˜์‚ฌ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
24:22
of how terrorist investigations actually work.
559
1462589
5117
์ดํ•ด๊ฐ€ ๋ถ€์กฑํ•ด์„œ ์ƒ๊ธด ์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:27
You think about on television,
560
1467706
1478
ํ…”๋Ÿฌ๋น„์ „์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด,
24:29
you watch a murder mystery.
561
1469184
1332
์‚ด์ธ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ณธ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ์‹œ๋‹ค.
24:30
What do you start with? You start with a body,
562
1470516
1530
๋ญ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋‚˜์š”? ์‹œ์ฒด๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:32
and then they work their way from there to solve the crime.
563
1472046
2236
๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์„ ํ’€์–ด๋‚˜๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:34
We're actually starting well before that,
564
1474282
1531
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ณด๋‹ค ํ›จ์”ฌ ์ „์— ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:35
hopefully before there are any bodies,
565
1475813
1501
์‹œ์ฒด๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ธฐ๊ธฐ ์ „์— ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
24:37
and we're trying to build the case for
566
1477314
2433
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ์ธ์ง€ ๋ฌด์—‡์„ ํ•˜๋ ค๋Š”์ง€
24:39
who the people are, what they're trying to do,
567
1479747
2430
์‚ฌ๊ฑด์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋‚˜๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:42
and that involves massive amounts of information.
568
1482177
2850
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ์–‘์˜ ์ •๋ณด๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:45
Think of it is as mosaic,
569
1485027
1481
๋ชจ์ž์ดํฌ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด,
24:46
and it's hard to say that any one piece of a mosaic
570
1486508
2162
๋ชจ์ž์ดํฌ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด ๋‚˜๊ฐˆ ๋•Œ๋Š”
24:48
was necessary to building the mosaic,
571
1488670
2632
์–ด๋Š ์กฐ๊ฐ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๊ธฐ ์–ด๋ ต์ง€๋งŒ
24:51
but to build the complete picture,
572
1491302
1729
์ „์ฒด ๊ทธ๋ฆผ์„ ์™„์„ฑํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด
24:53
you need to have all the pieces of information.
573
1493031
1965
๋ชจ๋“  ์ •๋ณด๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:54
On the other, the non-U.S.-related threats out of those 54,
574
1494996
3105
ํ•œํŽธ์œผ๋กœ 54 ๊ฐœ ์ค‘ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์œ„ํ˜‘์€
24:58
the other 42 of them,
575
1498101
3189
42 ๊ฐœ๊ฐ€,
25:01
the PRISM program was hugely relevant to that,
576
1501290
4630
PRISMํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ๊ณผ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ด€๋ จ์ด ์žˆ๊ณ 
25:05
and in fact was material in contributing
577
1505920
2986
์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€
25:08
to stopping those attacks.
578
1508906
1882
ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ง‰๋Š”๋ฐ ๋„์›€์ด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:10
CA: Snowden said two days ago
579
1510788
1337
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์ดํ‹€์ „ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ
25:12
that terrorism has always been
580
1512125
3370
ํ…Œ๋Ÿฌ๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ
25:15
what is called in the intelligence world
581
1515495
2128
์ •๋ณด์š”์›๋“ค ์‚ฌ์ด์—์„œ
25:17
"a cover for action,"
582
1517623
1546
"์ž‘์ „ ์€ํ"๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:19
that it's something that,
583
1519169
1937
์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“คํ•œํ…Œ
25:21
because it invokes such a powerful
584
1521106
1716
๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ๊ฐ์ •์  ๋ฐ˜์‘์„
25:22
emotional response in people,
585
1522822
1839
์ด๋Œ์–ด ๋‚ผ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฌธ์ œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:24
it allows the initiation of these programs
586
1524661
2634
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ๋“ค์ด
25:27
to achieve powers that an organization like yours
587
1527295
3561
๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์†ํ•œ ๋‹จ์ฒด๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€์งˆ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์—ˆ๋˜
25:30
couldn't otherwise have.
588
1530856
1567
๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์„ ํ–‰์‚ฌํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์ฃผ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:32
Is there any internal debate about that?
589
1532423
3452
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
25:35
RL: Yeah.
590
1535875
1412
๋ฆญ : ์˜ˆ.
25:37
I mean, we debate these things all the time,
591
1537287
2000
์ œ๋ง์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ํ•ญ์ƒ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ 
25:39
and there is discussion that goes on
592
1539287
2759
์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ
25:42
in the executive branch
593
1542046
1921
์ƒ์œ„ ๋ถ€์„œ,
25:43
and within NSA itself
594
1543967
2063
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ ์ž์ฒด ์•ˆ,
25:46
and the intelligence community about
595
1546030
1655
์ •๋ณด๋ถ€ ๋‹จ์ฒด์—์„œ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:47
what's right, what's proportionate,
596
1547685
1360
๋ฌด์—‡์ด ๋งž๋Š”์ง€, ๋ฌด์—‡์ด ์ ์ ˆํ•œ์ง€,
25:49
what's the correct thing to do.
597
1549045
1261
๋งž๋Š” ํ–‰๋™์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ธ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋…ผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฃจ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:50
And it's important to note that the programs
598
1550306
1578
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์ ์€
25:51
that we're talking about
599
1551884
1347
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์–˜๊ธฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์ด
25:53
were all authorized by two different presidents,
600
1553231
3402
๋‘ ๋ช…์˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น,
25:56
two different political parties,
601
1556633
1745
๋‘ ๊ฐœ์˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ •๋‹น,
25:58
by Congress twice,
602
1558378
2135
์˜ํšŒ์—์„œ 2๋ฒˆ,
26:00
and by federal judges 16 different times,
603
1560513
3836
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฐ๋ฐฉ ๋ฒ•์›์—์„œ 16๋ฒˆ ์Šน์ธ๋˜์—ˆ๊ณ 
26:04
and so this is not NSA running off
604
1564349
4712
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์ด ์ž๊ธฐ๋งˆ์Œ๋Œ€๋กœ
26:09
and doing its own thing.
605
1569061
1463
์ผ์„ ์ฒ˜๋ฆฌํ•˜๋Š”๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:10
This is a legitimate activity
606
1570524
2448
์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๋Œ€์‚ฌ๊ด€๊ณผ
26:12
of the United States foreign government
607
1572972
2518
๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ •๋ถ€ ๋ถ€์ฒ˜์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ถ€์„œ์™€
26:15
that was agreed to by all the branches
608
1575490
2175
ํ•ฉ์˜ํ•œ
26:17
of the United States government,
609
1577665
1984
ํ•ฉ๋ฒ•์ ์ธ ํ–‰๋™์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:19
and President Madison would have been proud.
610
1579649
3049
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ฉ”๋””์Šจ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น๊ป˜์„œ ์ž๋ถ€์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ€์งˆ ์‚ฌ์•ˆ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:22
CA: And yet, when congressmen discovered
611
1582698
4089
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ตญํšŒ์˜์›๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์œผ๋กœ ๋ฌด์—‡์„ ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€
26:26
what was actually being done with that authorization,
612
1586787
2230
์•Œ๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์„๋•Œ ๊ทธ๋“ค์ค‘ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
26:29
many of them were completely shocked.
613
1589017
2869
์ถฉ๊ฒฉ์— ๋น ์ง€๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:31
Or do you think that is not a legitimate reaction,
614
1591886
3346
์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ํƒ€๋‹นํ•œ ๋ฐ˜์‘์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ณด์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
26:35
that it's only because it's now come out publicly,
615
1595232
2105
๋งŒ์ฒœํ•˜์— ๊ณต๊ฐœ๋˜์—ˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
26:37
that they really knew exactly what you were doing
616
1597337
3102
๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์„ ๋‹น์‹ ๋“คํ•œํ…Œ ์คฌ์„ ๋•Œ
26:40
with the powers they had granted you?
617
1600439
2336
์–ด๋–ค ์ผ์„ ํ•  ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ  ๊ตญํšŒ์˜์›๋“ค์€ ์ •ํ™•ํžˆ ์•Œ์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
26:42
RL: Congress is a big body.
618
1602775
1674
๋ฆญ : ์˜ํšŒ๋Š” ํฐ ์ง‘๋‹จ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:44
There's 535 of them,
619
1604449
1977
535 ๋ช…์ด ์žˆ๊ณ 
26:46
and they change out frequently,
620
1606426
2141
์ž์ฃผ ๋ฐ”๋€๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:48
in the case of the House, every two years,
621
1608567
1858
ํ•˜์›์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋Š” 2๋…„๋งˆ๋‹ค ๋ฐ”๋€๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
26:50
and I think that the NSA provided
622
1610425
3776
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์— ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€
26:54
all the relevant information to our oversight committees,
623
1614201
3137
๊ด€๋ จ๋œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ž๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ๋…์œ„์›ํšŒ์— ์ œ๊ณตํ–ˆ๊ณ 
26:57
and then the dissemination of that information
624
1617338
2278
๊ฐ๋…์œ„์›ํšŒ๊ฐ€ ๊ตญํšŒ์—
26:59
by the oversight committees throughout Congress
625
1619616
1899
์ „๋‹ฌํ•œ ์ •๋ณด๋Š”
27:01
is something that they manage.
626
1621515
2634
๊ฐ๋…์œ„์›ํšŒ๊ฐ€ ๊ด€๋ฆฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:04
I think I would say that Congress members
627
1624149
4856
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ๊ตญํšŒ์˜์›๋“ค์ด
27:09
had the opportunity to make themselves aware,
628
1629005
3831
์Šค์Šค๋กœ ์•Œ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ธฐํšŒ๊ฐ€ ์ถฉ๋ถ„ํžˆ ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
27:12
and in fact a significant number of them,
629
1632836
1869
์‚ฌ์‹ค ๊ทธ๋“ค์ค‘ ์ƒ๋‹น์ˆ˜๋Š”
27:14
the ones who are assigned oversight responsibility,
630
1634705
3458
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๊ด€๋ฆฌํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ฐ๋…ํ•  ์ฑ…์ž„์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€
27:18
did have the ability to do that.
631
1638163
1174
๊ทธ๊ฑธ ์ดํ•ดํ•  ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:19
And you've actually had the chairs of those committees say that in public.
632
1639337
3938
๊ฒฐ๊ตญ์—๋Š” ์œ„์›ํšŒ ์˜์žฅ์ด ๋Œ€์ค‘๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ณต๊ฐœํ•œ๊ฒƒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:23
CA: Now, you mentioned the threat of cyberattacks,
633
1643275
1557
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์‚ฌ์ด๋ฒ„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
27:24
and I don't think anyone in this room would disagree
634
1644832
2167
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์•‰์•„์žˆ๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
27:26
that that is a huge concern,
635
1646999
1890
๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ํฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋™์˜ํ•˜์‹ค ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:28
but do you accept that there's a tradeoff
636
1648889
1834
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๊ณผ ๋ฐฉ์–ด ์ „๋žต์‚ฌ์ด๋ฅผ
27:30
between offensive and defensive strategies,
637
1650723
2411
์ ˆ์ถฉํ•ด์•ผํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณด์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
27:33
and that it's possible that the very measures taken
638
1653134
2825
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์กฐ์น˜๊ฐ€
27:35
to, "weaken encryption,"
639
1655959
2669
"์•”ํ˜ธ๋ฅผ ์•ฝํ™”ํ•˜๋ผ"์˜€๊ณ 
27:38
and allow yourself to find the bad guys,
640
1658628
2153
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋‚˜์œ๋†ˆ๋“ค์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
27:40
might also open the door to forms of cyberattack?
641
1660781
4273
๊ทธ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์‚ฌ์ด๋ฒ„ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์— ๋˜๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฌธ์„ ์—ด์–ด์ค„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š๋‚˜์š”?
27:45
RL: So I think two things.
642
1665054
2843
๋ฆญ : ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” 2 ๊ฐ€์ง€๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:47
One is, you said weaken encryption. I didn't.
643
1667897
3847
์ฒซ์งธ๋Š” ์•”ํ˜ธ์•ฝํ™”ํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ ์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:51
And the other one is that
644
1671744
5126
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
27:56
the NSA has both of those missions,
645
1676870
2776
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๊ณผ ๋ฐฉ์–ด ๋ชจ๋‘์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋Œ€์ฑ…์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ ,
27:59
and we are heavily biased towards defense,
646
1679646
2281
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์–ด์— ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ์ค‘์ ์„ ๋‘๊ณ 
28:01
and, actually, the vulnerabilities that we find
647
1681927
3517
๋Œ€๋‹ค์ˆ˜์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์—์„œ
28:05
in the overwhelming majority of cases,
648
1685444
2101
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•œ ์ทจ์•ฝ์ ๋“ค์„
28:07
we disclose to the people who are responsible
649
1687545
2773
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ œํ’ˆ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ
28:10
for manufacturing or developing those products.
650
1690318
3363
์ฑ…์ž„์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ณต๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:13
We have a great track record of that,
651
1693681
1383
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ž์„ธํ•œ ๊ธฐ๋ก์ด ์žˆ๊ณ ,
28:15
and we're actually working on a proposal right now
652
1695064
1986
์ง€๊ธˆ ์ œ์•ˆ์„œ๋ฅผ ์ž‘์„ฑ์ค‘์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:17
to be transparent and to publish transparency reports
653
1697050
3170
ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ์„ ์œ ์ง€ํ•˜๊ณ  ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋ณด๊ณ ์„œ๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ์ฃ .
28:20
in the same way that the Internet companies
654
1700220
2886
์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ํšŒ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€
28:23
are being allowed to publish transparency reports for them.
655
1703106
3867
๋Œ€์ค‘๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ณต๊ฐœํ•˜๋Š” ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ๋ณด๊ณ ์„œ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:26
We want to be more transparent about that.
656
1706973
1998
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ํˆฌ๋ช…ํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:28
So again, we eat our own dog food.
657
1708971
3129
๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“  ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:32
We use the standards, we use the products
658
1712100
2253
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ‘œ์ค€์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋ฉฐ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ถ”์ฒœํ•œ ์ œํ’ˆ์„
28:34
that we recommend,
659
1714353
2655
์‚ฌ์šฉํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:37
and so it's in our interest
660
1717008
2295
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์‚ฌ๋Š”
28:39
to keep our communications protected
661
1719303
2638
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ํ•„์š”๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
28:41
in the same way that other people's need to be.
662
1721941
3804
์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์†Œํ†ต์„ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:45
CA: Edward Snowden,
663
1725745
3190
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๋Š”
28:48
when, after his talk, was wandering the halls here
664
1728935
4428
๊ทธ์˜ ๊ฐ•์—ฐ์ด ๋๋‚ฌ์„๋•Œ
28:53
in the bot,
665
1733363
1245
๋ณดํŠธ๋กœ ํšŒ์˜์žฅ์„ ๋Œ์•„๋‹ค๋‹ˆ๋ฉด์„œ
28:54
and I heard him say to a couple of people,
666
1734608
2188
๋ช‡๋ช‡ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ์–˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
28:56
they asked him about what he thought
667
1736796
1617
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ „๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ
28:58
of the NSA overall,
668
1738413
1593
์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋ƒ๊ณ  ๋ฌผ์—ˆ๋”๋‹ˆ,
29:00
and he was very complimentary about the people
669
1740006
2773
๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ์ผํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
29:02
who work with you,
670
1742779
2021
๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ํ˜ธ์˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ,
29:04
said that it's a really
671
1744800
3923
์˜ณ์€์ผ์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์—
29:08
impassioned group of employees
672
1748723
1960
๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์—ด์ •์ ์ธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด๊ณ ,
29:10
who are seeking to do the right thing,
673
1750683
2449
๋‹จ์ง€ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์•ˆ์ข‹์€ ์ •์ฑ…๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
29:13
and that the problems have come from
674
1753132
2954
๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ 
29:16
just some badly conceived policies.
675
1756086
3119
๋งํ•˜๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
29:19
He came over certainly very reasonably and calmly.
676
1759205
4445
๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์นจ์ฐฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์ด์„ฑ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๊นŒ์ง€ ์˜จ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:23
He didn't come over like a crazy man.
677
1763650
2175
๊ทธ๋Š” ๋ฏธ์นœ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์˜ค์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:25
Would you accept that at least,
678
1765825
1970
์ตœ์†Œํ•œ ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ ์„ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ธ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
29:27
even if you disagree with how he did it,
679
1767795
3016
๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ ์ผ์— ๋™์˜ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด๋„
29:30
that he has opened a debate that matters?
680
1770811
4024
๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ํ† ๋ก ์˜ ์žฅ์„ ์—ด์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
29:34
RL: So I think that the discussion
681
1774835
2398
๋ฆญ : ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์— ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…ผ์˜๋Š”
29:37
is an important one to have.
682
1777233
1864
๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:39
I do not like the way that he did it.
683
1779097
3376
์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ ๋ฐฉ์‹์ด ๋งˆ์Œ์— ๋“ค์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:42
I think there were a number of other ways
684
1782473
2005
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—๋Š”
29:44
that he could have done that
685
1784478
1462
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
29:45
that would have not endangered our people
686
1785940
3296
๊ทธ๋žฌ๋‹ค๋ฉด ์ ๋“ค์˜ ํ–‰๋™์„ ์‚ดํ•„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
29:49
and the people of other nations
687
1789236
2648
์‹œ์•ผ๋ฅผ ์žƒ์–ด๋ฒ„๋ฆผ์œผ๋กœ์จ
29:51
through losing visibility
688
1791884
2111
์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋‚˜๋ผ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„
29:53
into what our adversaries are doing.
689
1793995
2731
์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋น ํŠธ๋ฆฌ์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
29:56
But I do think it's an important conversation.
690
1796726
2686
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ €๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Œ€ํ™”๋Š” ์•„์ฃผ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:59
CA: It's been reported that there's
691
1799412
1539
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์˜๊ฒฌ๋“ค์ด
30:00
almost a difference of opinion
692
1800951
2109
๋‹น์‹ ๊ณผ ๋‹น์‹  ๋™๋ฃŒ๋“ค ์‚ฌ์ด์—
30:03
with you and your colleagues
693
1803060
1471
์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:04
over any scenario in which
694
1804531
2053
์–ด๋–ค ์‹œ๋‚˜๋ฆฌ์˜ค๋“ ์ง€
30:06
he might be offered an amnesty deal.
695
1806584
2603
๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์‚ฌ๋ฉด๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ์—์„œ ๊ฑฐ๋ž˜๋ฅผ ์ œ์•ˆํ•˜๋ฉด,
30:09
I think your boss, General Keith Alexander,
696
1809187
2711
์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ƒ๊ด€์ธ ํ‚ค์“ฐ ์•Œ๋ ‰์‚ฐ๋” ์žฅ๊ตฐ์€
30:11
has said that that would be a terrible example
697
1811898
1986
๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ
30:13
for others;
698
1813884
1465
์•ˆ์ข‹์€ ์˜ˆ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
30:15
you can't negotiate with someone
699
1815349
1657
์–ด์ฐŒ๋˜์—ˆ๋“  ๋ฒ•์„ ์–ด๊ธด ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๊ณผ๋Š”
30:17
who's broken the law in that way.
700
1817006
2008
ํ˜‘์ƒํ• ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
30:19
But you've been quoted as saying that,
701
1819014
2009
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ „์— ๋งํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด,
30:21
if Snowden could prove that he was surrendering
702
1821023
3208
๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ์•„์ง ๊ณต๊ฐœ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ
30:24
all undisclosed documents,
703
1824231
1796
๋Œ๋ ค์ค€๋‹ค๋ฉด
30:26
that a deal maybe should be considered.
704
1826027
2239
๊ฑฐ๋ž˜๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด๊ฒ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
30:28
Do you still think that?
705
1828266
2970
์•„์ง๋„ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
30:31
RL: Yeah, so actually,
706
1831236
1518
๋ฆญ : ๋„ค, ์‚ฌ์‹ค
30:32
this is my favorite thing about that "60 Minutes" interview
707
1832754
2583
"์ธํ„ฐ๋ทฐ 60๋ถ„"์ค‘ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ œ์ผ ์ข‹์•„ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์€
30:35
was all the misquotes that came from that.
708
1835337
1712
์ž˜๋ชป ์ธ์šฉ๋œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋‹ค ๋‚˜์˜จ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
30:37
What I actually said, in response to a question about,
709
1837049
2915
์ œ๊ฐ€ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋งํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‹ต๋ณ€์ด์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
30:39
would you entertain any discussions
710
1839964
1812
์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์˜ ์ •์ƒ์ฐธ์ž‘์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
30:41
of mitigating action against Snowden,
711
1841776
6385
์–ด๋– ํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ๋„ ํ•  ์šฉ์˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
30:48
I said, yeah, it's worth a conversation.
712
1848161
1832
๋ผ๋Š” ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๋„ค, ๋Œ€ํ™”ํ•  ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
30:49
This is something that the attorney general
713
1849993
1635
์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๋ฒ•๋ฌด๋ถ€์™€
30:51
of the United States and the president also
714
1851628
1930
๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น๋„
30:53
actually have both talked about this,
715
1853558
1538
์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ๊ณ 
30:55
and I defer to the attorney general,
716
1855096
1369
์ €๋Š” ๋ฒ•๋ฌด๋ถ€๋กœ ๋„˜๊ธฐ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:56
because this is his lane.
717
1856465
1547
์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ์˜ ์ผ์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:58
But there is a strong tradition
718
1858012
2509
ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ ๋ฒ•์—
31:00
in American jurisprudence
719
1860521
3192
๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์˜ค๋ž˜๋œ ์ „ํ†ต์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
31:03
of having discussions with people
720
1863713
4575
๋ฒ•์„ ์–ด๊ธด ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๊ณผ
31:08
who have been charged with crimes in order to,
721
1868288
1844
ํ† ๋ก ์„ ํ•  ๋•Œ
31:10
if it benefits the government,
722
1870132
1516
๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋‚˜์˜จ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด
31:11
to get something out of that,
723
1871648
2378
์ •๋ถ€์— ๋„์›€์ด ๋œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
31:14
that there's always room for that kind of discussion.
724
1874026
2634
๋Œ€ํ™”์˜ ์—ฌ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:16
So I'm not presupposing any outcome,
725
1876660
1689
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋„ ์˜ˆ์ƒํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค๋งŒ,
31:18
but there is always room for discussion.
726
1878349
3736
๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•  ์—ฌ์ง€๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:22
CA: To a lay person it seems like
727
1882085
1600
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋น„์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€ ์ž…์žฅ์—์„œ ๋ณด์ž๋ฉด,
31:23
he has certain things to offer the U.S.,
728
1883685
3368
๊ทธ๋Š” ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—๊ฒŒ ์ค„ ํ™•์‹คํ•œ ๊ฒŒ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:27
the government, you, others,
729
1887053
1739
์ •๋ถ€์™€,๋‹น์‹ ๊ณผ. ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
31:28
in terms of putting things right
730
1888792
1681
์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ํ˜„๋ช…ํ•œ ์ •์ฑ…์ด
31:30
and helping figure out a smarter policy,
731
1890473
2058
ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ณ  ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์žก์„์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ
31:32
a smarter way forward for the future.
732
1892531
5206
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ข€ ๋” ๋‚˜์€ ๋ฏธ๋ž˜๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:38
Do you see, has that kind of possibility
733
1898988
2073
๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅ์„ฑ์„
31:41
been entertained at all?
734
1901061
2398
์ธ์ •ํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
31:43
RL: So that's out of my lane.
735
1903459
1638
๋ฆญ : ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋Œ€๋‹ตํ• ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ์•„๋‹Œ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:45
That's not an NSA thing.
736
1905097
1529
๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์ด ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
31:46
That would be a Department of Justice
737
1906626
2207
๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์‚ฌ๋ฒ•๋ถ€์—์„œ
31:48
sort of discussion.
738
1908833
2497
๋‹ค๋ค„์•ผ ํ•  ์ฃผ์ œ์ธ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:51
I'll defer to them.
739
1911330
3296
์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๋ฏธ๋ฃจ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:54
CA: Rick, when Ed Snowden ended his talk,
740
1914626
2965
ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋ฆญ, ์—๋“œ์›Œ๋“œ ์Šค๋…ธ๋“ ์”จ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ์˜ ๊ฐ•์—ฐ์„ ๋งˆ์ณค์„๋•Œ,
31:57
I offered him the chance to share an idea worth spreading.
741
1917591
3745
์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ์—๊ฒŒ ๊ณต์œ ํ•  ์•„์ด๋””์–ด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋งํ•  ๊ธฐํšŒ๋ฅผ ๋“œ๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:01
What would be your idea worth spreading
742
1921336
1653
๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ด์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๊ณต์œ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€
32:02
for this group?
743
1922989
2282
์•„์ด๋””์–ด๋Š” ๋ฌด์—‡์ž…๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
32:05
RL: So I think, learn the facts.
744
1925271
1992
๋ฆญ : ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:07
This is a really important conversation,
745
1927263
2616
์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ •๋ง ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋Œ€ํ™”์ด๊ณ 
32:09
and it impacts, it's not just NSA,
746
1929879
2076
์˜ํ–ฅ๋ ฅ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ๋ฟ๋งŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ณ ,
32:11
it's not just the government,
747
1931955
1198
์ •๋ถ€๋ฟ๋งŒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ณ ,
32:13
it's you, it's the Internet companies.
748
1933153
2908
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„. ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค๊นŒ์ง€ ํ•ด๋‹น๋˜๋Š” ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:16
The issue of privacy and personal data
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์‚ฌ์ƒํ™œ๊ณผ ๊ฐœ์ธ์˜ ์ •๋ณด์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ฃผ์ œ๋Š”
32:19
is much bigger than just the government,
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์ •๋ถ€๋ณด๋‹ค ํ›จ์”ฌ ํฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:20
and so learn the facts.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ฐฐ์›์‹œ๋‹ค.
32:22
Don't rely on headlines,
752
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๊ธฐ์‚ฌ์˜ ์ œ๋ชฉ์— ํ˜„ํ˜น๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ ,
32:24
don't rely on sound bites,
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์ •์น˜ ์—ฐ์„ค์— ํ˜„ํ˜น๋˜์ง€๋„ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉฐ
32:25
don't rely on one-sided conversations.
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๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ• ๋•Œ ํ•œ์ชฝ ์ž…์žฅ๋งŒ ๋“ฃ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:28
So that's the idea, I think, worth spreading.
755
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ํผ๋œจ๋ ค์•ผํ•  ์•„์ด๋””์–ด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:31
We have a sign, a badge tab,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์„œ๋ช…๊ณผ ๋ช…์ฐฐ์ด ์žˆ๊ณ 
32:34
we wear badges at work with lanyards,
757
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์ถœ์ž…์ฆ์„ ๋‹ฌ๊ณ  ์ผํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:36
and if I could make a plug,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ๋งˆ๋””๋ฅผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
32:38
my badge lanyard at work says, "Dallas Cowboys."
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์ผํ•  ๋•Œ ์ถœ์ž…์ฆ์— ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์“ฐ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. "๋‹ฌ๋ผ์Šค ์†Œ๋ชฐ์ด๊พผ๋“ค"
32:41
Go Dallas.
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๋‹ฌ๋ผ์Šค๋กœ ๊ฐ€์ž.
32:44
I've just alienated half the audience, I know.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐฉ๊ธˆ ์ฒญ์ค‘์˜ ์ ˆ๋ฐ˜์„ ์†Œ์™ธ์‹œ์ผฐ๋„ค์š”.
32:47
So the lanyard that our people
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์•”ํ˜ธ๋ฅผ ๋ถ„์„ํ•˜๋Š”
32:51
who work in the organization
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๋‹จ์ฒด์—์„œ ์ผํ•˜๋Š”
32:52
that does our crypto-analytic work
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋งค๋Š” ์ถœ์ž…์ฆ์—๋Š”
32:55
have a tab that says, "Look at the data."
765
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"๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋ฅผ ๋ด๋ผ"๋ผ๊ณ  ์“ฐ์—ฌ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:57
So that's the idea worth spreading.
766
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1536
์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ์ œ๊ฐ€ ํผ๋œจ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ์•„์ด๋””์–ด ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:58
Look at the data.
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๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ๋ฅผ ๋ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:01
CA: Rick, it took a certain amount of courage,
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค : ๋ฆญ, ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์œผ๋กœ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๊ณต๊ฐœ๋œ ์žฅ์†Œ์—์„œ
33:03
I think, actually, to come and speak openly
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TED ์ฒญ์ค‘๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด
33:06
to this group.
770
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๋งŽ์€ ์šฉ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:07
It's not something the NSA has done a lot of in the past,
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๊ตญ๊ฐ€์•ˆ๋ณด๊ตญ์€ ๊ณผ๊ฑฐ์— ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๊ณ ,
33:10
and plus the technology has been challenging.
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๊ธฐ์ˆ ์€ ์ ์  ์ง„ํ™”ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:13
We truly appreciate you doing that
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง„์‹ฌ์œผ๋กœ ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ํ•œ ํ–‰๋™๊ณผ
33:15
and sharing in this very important conversation.
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•ด์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๋งค์šฐ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:17
Thank you so much.
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๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:19
RL: Thanks, Chris.
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๋ฆญ : ๊ฐ์‚ฌํž™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค.
33:21
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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