The genius puppetry behind War Horse | Handspring Puppet Company

Translator: Janka Pazurikova Reviewer: Erika Vojtkova

Adrian Kohler: Well, we're here today

Adrian Kohler: Prišli sme vám

to talk about the evolution of a puppet horse.

porozprávať o evolúcii bábkového koňa.

Basil Jones: But actually we're going to start this evolution

Basil Jones: Ale túto evolúciu vlastne začneme

with a hyena.

s hyenou.

AK: The ancestor of the horse.

AK: Ktorá je predchodcom koňa.

Okay, we'll do something with it.

Niečo s tým spravíme.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Hahahaha.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

The hyena is the ancestor of the horse

Hyena je predchodcom koňa,

because it was part of a production

pretože bola súčasťou produkcie

called "Faustus in Africa,"

nazvanej "Faustus v Afrike"

a Handspring Production from 1995,

spoločnosti Handspring Production z roku 1995,

where it had to play draughts with Helen of Troy.

kde musela hrať dámu s Helenou Trójskou.

This production was directed

Túto produkciu režíroval

by South African artist and theater director,

juhoafrický umelec a divadelný režisér

William Kentridge.

William Kentridge.

So it needed a very articulate front paw.

Takže potrebovala presvedčivo hýbať s prednou labou.

But, like all puppets, it has other attributes.

Ale, tak ako všetky bábky, mala aj iné vlastnosti.

BJ: One of them is breath,

BJ: Jednou z nich je dych,

and it kind of breathes.

akoby vedela dýchať.

AK: Haa haa haaa.

AK: Haa haa haaa.

BJ: Breath is really important for us.

BJ: Dýchanie je pre nás dôležité.

It's the kind of original movement

Je to základný pohyb

for any puppet for us onstage.

pre každú bábku na javisku.

It's the thing that distinguishes the puppet --

To odlišuje bábku --

AK: Oops.

AK: Oops.

BJ: From an actor.

BJ: od herca.

Puppets always have to try to be alive.

Bábky sa vždy musia snažiť byť živé.

It's their kind of ur-story onstage,

Je to príbeh ich javiskového života,

that desperation to live.

tá zúfalá túžba žiť.

AK: Yeah, it's basically a dead object, as you can see,

AK: Áno, je to vlastne neživý predmet, ako môžete vidieť,

and it only lives

ktorý ožije len preto,

because you make it.

že ho prinútite.

An actor struggles to die onstage,

Herec sa snaží na javisku zomrieť,

but a puppet has to struggle to live.

ale bábka sa snaží na javisku ožiť.

And in a way that's a metaphor for life.

A istým spôsobom je to metafora života.

BJ: So every moment it's on the stage, it's making the struggle.

BJ: Takže každá chvíľa na javisku je boj.

So we call this

Voláme to

a piece of emotional engineering

emocionálne inžinierstvo,

that uses up-to-the-minute

ktoré využíva najmodernejšiu

17th century technology --

technológiu 17. storočia --

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

to turn nouns

na to, aby premenila podstatné mená

into verbs.

na slovesá.

AK: Well actually I prefer to say

AK: Ja zvyknem hovoriť,

that it's an object

že je to predmet

constructed out of wood and cloth

vytvorený z dreva a látky

with movement built into it

do ktorého vložíte pohyb,

to persuade you to believe that it has life.

aby ste niekoho presvedčili, že žije.

BJ: Okay so.

BJ: Takže tak.

AK: It has ears that move passively

AK: Jej uši sa hýbu spolu

when the head goes.

s hlavou.

BJ: And it has these bulkheads

BJ: A tieto podpery

made out of plywood,

sú vyrobené z preglejky

covered with fabric --

pokryté látkou --

curiously similar, in fact,

podobné

to the plywood canoes

preglejkovým kanoe,

that Adrian's father used to make

ktoré Adrianov otec vyrábal,

when he was a boy in their workshop.

keď bol chlapcom.

AK: In Port Elizabeth, the village outside Port Elizabeth in South Africa.

AK: V Port Elizabeth v Juhoafrickej republike.

BJ: His mother was a puppeteer.

BJ: Jeho matka bola bábkoherečka.

And when we met at art school

A keď sme sa streli na umeleckej škole

and fell in love

a zaľúbili sa

in 1971,

v roku 1971,

I hated puppets.

nenávidel som bábky.

I really thought they were so beneath me.

Myslel som si, že je to hlboko pod moju úroveň.

I wanted to become an avant-garde artist --

Chcel som sa stať avantgardným umelcom --

and Punch and Judy was certainly not where I wanted to go.

a Punch a Judy určite neboli smerom, ktorým som chcel ísť.

And, in fact, it took about 10 years

Vlastne mi trvalo skoro 10 rokov

to discover

objaviť

the Bambara Bamana puppets of Mali in West Africa,

Bamaro bambano bábky v Mali v západnej Afrike,

where there's a fabulous tradition of puppetry,

kde je starodávna tradícia bábkoherectva,

to learn a renewed, or a new, respect

aby som sa naučil novému rešpektu

for this art form.

voči tejto forme umenia.

AK: So in 1981, I persuaded Basil and some friends of mine

AK: A tak som v roku 1981 presvedčil Basila a niekoľko mojich priateľov,

to form a puppet company.

aby sme založili bábkovú spoločnosť.

And 20 years later, miraculously,

A o 20 rokov neskôr, akoby zázrakom,

we collaborated with a company from Mali,

sme spolupracovali so spoločnosťou z Mali,

the Sogolon Marionette Troupe of Bamako,

Sogolonskou Marionetovou skupinou z Bamaka,

where we made a piece about a tall giraffe.

kde sme hrali hru o vysokej žirafe.

It was just called "Tall Horse," which was a life-sized giraffe.

Volala sa "Vysoký kôň", ktorým bola žirafa v životnej veľkosti.

BJ: And here again, you see the same structure.

BJ: A tu znovu vidíte rovnakú štruktúru.

The bulkheads have now turned into hoops of cane,

Podpory sa zmenili na pásy z trstiny,

but it's ultimately the same structure.

ale je to tá istá štruktúra.

It's got two people inside it on stilts,

Vnútri nej sú dvaja ľudia na chodúľoch,

which give them the height,

ktoré im dávajú výšku,

and somebody in the front

a niekto vpredu

who's using a kind of steering wheel to move that head.

používa niečo ako volant na pohyby hlavy.

AK: The person in the hind legs

AK: Osoba v zadných nohách

is also controlling the tail, a bit like the hyena --

tiež kontroluje chvost, tak trochu ako hyena --

same mechanism, just a bit bigger.

rovnaký mechanizmus, len vo väčšom.

And he's controlling the ear movement.

A on kontroluje pohyby uší.

BJ: So this production

BJ: Túto produkciu

was seen by Tom Morris

videl Tom Morris

of the National Theatre in London.

z Národného divadla v Londýne.

And just around that time,

A vtedy niekedy

his mother had said,

jeho mama povedala,

"Have you seen this book by Michael Morpurgo

"Videl si tú knihu od Michaela Morpurga

called 'War Horse'?"

'Vojnový kôň'?"

AK: It's about a boy who falls in love with a horse.

AK: Je to o chlapcovi, ktorý sa zaľúbi do koňa.

The horse is sold to the First World War,

Keď koňa predajú, aby bojoval v prvej svetovej vojne,

and he joins up to find his horse.

chlapec sa tiež prihlási do armády, aby ho našiel.

BJ: So Tom gave us a call and said,

BJ: Takže Tom nám zavolal a povedal,

"Do you think you could make us a horse

"Myslíte si, že by ste vedeli vyrobiť koňa

for a show to happen at the National Theatre?"

pre predstavenie v Národnom divadle?"

AK: It seemed a lovely idea.

AK: Vyzeralo to ako naozaj dobrý nápad.

BJ: But it had to ride. It had to have a rider.

BJ: Ale kôň musel uniesť jazdca.

AK: It had to have a rider,

AK: Musel uniesť jazdca,

and it had to participate in cavalry charges.

a musel sa zúčastniť vojenských útokov jazdectva.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

A play about early 20th century plowing technology

Hra o technológii orby skorého 20. storočia

and cavalry charges

a jazdecké útoky

was a little bit of a challenge for the accounting department

boli menšou výzvou pre účtovné oddelenie

at the National Theatre in London.

Národného divadla v Londýne.

But they agreed to go along with it for a while.

Ale súhlasili.

So we began with a test.

Začali sme s testom.

BJ: This is Adrian and Thys Stander,

BJ: Toto je Adrian a Thys Stander,

who went on to actually design the cane system for the horse,

ktorý vlastne navrhoval podporný systém pre koňa

and our next-door neighbor Katherine,

a naša susedka Katherine,

riding on a ladder.

ktorá jazdí na rebríku.

The weight is really difficult when it's up above your head.

Váha je naozaj problém, keď je nad úrovňou hlavy.

AK: And once we put Katherine

AK: A keď sme Katherine previedli

through that particular brand of hell,

cez peklo všetkých tých skúšok,

we knew that we might be able to make a horse, which could be ridden.

vedeli sme, že budeme schopní vyrobiť koňa, ktorý unesie jazdca.

So we made a model.

A tak sme vyrobili model.

This is a cardboard model,

Toto je lepenkový model

a little bit smaller than the hyena.

trochu menší ako hyena.

You'll notice that the legs are plywood legs

Všimnite si, že nohy sú z preglejky

and the canoe structure is still there.

a štruktúra kanoe tam stále je.

BJ: And the two manipulators are inside.

BJ: A dvaja manipulátori sú vnútri.

But we didn't realize at the time

Ale vtedy sme si neuvedomili,

that we actually needed a third manipulator,

že budeme potrebovať ešte tretieho,

because we couldn't manipulate the neck

pretože sa nedá ovládať krk

from inside

zvnútra

and walk the horse at the same time.

a zároveň s koňom kráčať.

AK: We started work on the prototype

AK: Začali sme pracovať na prototype,

after the model was approved,

po tom, čo bol model schválený,

and the prototype took a bit longer

a prototyp trval trochu dlhšie

than we anticipated.

ako sme predpokladali.

We had to throw out the plywood legs and make new cane ones.

Museli sme vyhodiť preglejkové nohy a vyrobiť nové z trstiny.

And we had a crate built for it.

Dali sme preňho postaviť dopravnú klietku,

It had to be shipped to London.

ktorú museli do Londýna priviezť.

We were going to test-drive it on the street outside of our house in Cape Town,

Skúšobnú jazdu sme chceli urobiť pred našim domom v Kapskom meste,

and it got to midnight and we hadn't done that yet.

ale prišla polnoc a my sme to ešte nemali hotové.

BJ: So we got a camera,

BJ: Tak sme vzali kameru,

and we posed the puppet

a postavili sme bábku

in various galloping stances.

do rôznych pozícii pohybu.

And we sent it off

A poslali sme ich

to the National Theatre,

do Národného divadla

hoping that they believed

a dúfali sme, že veria,

that we created something that worked.

že sme vytvorili niečo, čo funguje.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

AK: A month later, we were there in London

AK: O mesiac neskôr sme boli v Londýne

with this big box and a studio full of people about to work with us.

s touto veľkou krabicou v štúdiu plnom ľudí, ktorí s nami mali pracovať.

BJ: About 40 people.

BJ: Okolo 40 ľudí.

AK: We were terrified.

AK: Boli sme vystrašení.

We opened the lid, we took the horse out,

Otvorili sme krabicu, vybrali koňa von

and it did work; it walked and it was able to be ridden.

a fungoval, chodil a dalo sa na ňom jazdiť.

Here I have an 18-second clip

Tu máme 18-sekundový klip

of the very first walk of the prototype.

prvých krokov prototypu.

This is in the National Theatre studio,

Toto je v štúdiu Národného divadla,

the place where they cook new ideas.

na mieste, kde vznikajú nové nápady.

It had by no means got the green light yet.

V žiadnom prípade ešte nemal istú rolu v hre.

The choreographer, Toby Sedgwick,

Choreograf, Toby Sedgwick,

invented a beautiful sequence

pripravil nádhernú pasáž,

where the baby horse,

kde žriebätko,

which was made out of sticks and bits of twigs,

vyrobené z paličiek a vetvičiek,

grew up into the big horse.

vyrastie a stane sa z neho veľký kôň.

And Nick Starr, the director of the National Theatre,

Nick Starr, režisér Národného divadla,

saw that particular moment, he was standing next to me -- he nearly wet himself.

tú pasáž videl -- stál vedľa mňa -- a takmer sa pomočil.

And so the show was given the green light.

A tak hra dostala zelenú.

And we went back to Cape Town and redesigned the horse completely.

Vrátili sme sa do Kapského mesta a nanovo sme navrhli celého koňa.

Here is the plan.

Tu je plán.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

And here is our factory in Cape Town

A tu je naša fabrika v Kapskom meste,

where we make horses.

kde koňov vyrábame.

You can see quite a lot of skeletons in the background there.

Môžete tam vidieť niekoľko kostier.

The horses are completely handmade.

Kone sú vyrábané celé ručne.

There is very little 20th century technology in them.

Je v nich len veľmi málo technológie 20. storočia.

We used a bit of laser cutting on the plywood

Použili sme laserové rezanie preglejky

and some of the aluminum pieces.

a niekoľko hliníkových kusov.

But because they have to be light and flexible,

Ale pretože musia byť ľahké a ohybné

and each one of them is different,

a každý z nich je iný,

they can't be mass-produced, unfortunately.

nemôžu byť vyrábané masovo, nanešťastie.

So here are some half-finished horses

Tu je niekoľko napoly dokončených koňov,

ready to be worked in London.

pripravených na prevoz a dokončenie v Londýne.

And now we would like to introduce you

A teraz by sme vám radi predstavili

to Joey.

Joeyho.

Joey boy, you there?

Joey, si tam?

Joey.

Joey.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

Joey.

Joey.

Joey, come here.

Joey, poď sem.

No, no, I haven't got it.

Nie, nie, ja to nemám.

He's got it; it's in his pocket.

On to má vo vrecku.

BJ: Joey.

BJ: Joey.

AK: Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey.

AK: Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey.

Come here. Stand here where people can see you.

Poď sem. Postav sa tak, aby ťa ľudia videli.

Move around. Come on.

Prejdi sa trochu.

I'd just like to describe --

Len by som rád opísal --

I won't talk too loud. He might get irritated.

nebudem rozprávať veľmi nahlas. Mohol by sa vystrašiť.

Here, Craig is working the head.

Craig pracuje s hlavou.

He has bicycle brake cables

Pomocou brzdových káblov z bicykla

going down to the head control in his hand.

kontroluje pohyby hlavou nadol.

Each one of them

Každý z nich

operates either an ear, separately,

má na starosti buď jedno ucho

or the head, up and down.

alebo hlavu, nahor a nadol.

But he also controls the head directly

Ale tiež priamo ovláda hlavu

by using his hand.

pomocou ruky.

The ears are obviously

Uši sú zjavne

a very important emotional indicator of the horse.

veľmi dôležitým emocionálnym ukazovateľom koňa.

When they point right back,

Keď ukazujú rovno dozadu,

the horse is fearful or angry,

kôň je vystrašený alebo nahnevaný,

depending upon what's going on in front of him, around him.

podľa toho, čo sa deje pred ním a okolo neho.

Or, when he's more relaxed, the head comes down

Alebo, keď je pokojný, jeho hlava sa skloní

and the ears listen, either side.

a uši počúvajú, každé na jednej strane.

Horses' hearing is very important.

Sluch je pre kone veľmi dôležitý.

It's almost more important than their eyesight.

Takmer dôležitejší ako zrak.

Over here,

Tu

Tommy's got what you call the heart position.

má Tommy takzvanú pozíciu srdca.

He's working the leg.

Pracuje s nohou.

You see the string tendon from the hyena,

Vidíte šľachu z nite z hyeny,

the hyena's front leg,

z jej prednej nohy,

automatically pulls the hoop up.

ktorá to automaticky potiahne kopyto hore.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

Horses are so unpredictable.

Kone sú tak nepredvídateľné.

(Laughter)

(Smiech)

The way a hoof comes up with a horse

Spôsob, akým kôň dvíha kopyto,

immediately gives you the feeling

vám dá okamžite pocit,

that it's a convincing horse action.

že sa dívate na skutočného koňa.

The hind legs have got the same action.

Zadné nohy sa vedia rovnako hýbať.

BJ: And Mikey also has,

BJ: A Mikey tiež vie

in his fingers,

so svojimi prstami

the ability to move the tail

hýbať chvostom

from left to right,

zľava doprava

and up and down with the other hand.

a hore a dole s druhou rukou.

And together, there's quite a complex possibility

Dokopy to dáva celkom presvedčivé možnosti

of tail expression.

pohybov chvosta.

AK: You want to say something about the breathing?

AK: Chceš niečo povedať o dýchaní?

BJ: We had a big challenge with breathing.

BJ: Dýchanie bolo veľkou výzvou.

Adrian thought

Adrian mal nápad,

that he was going to have to split the chest of the puppet in two

že rozdelíme hruď bábky napoly

and make it breathe like that --

a bude dýchať takto --

because that's how a horse would breathe, with an expanded chest.

pretože tak kone dýchajú, rozširovaním hrudníka.

But we realized

Ale uvedomili sme si,

that, if that were to be happening,

že ak by to tak bolo,

you wouldn't, as an audience, see the breath.

vy ako diváci by ste to dýchanie nevideli.

So he made a channel in here,

A tak urobil kanál tu vnútri

and the chest moves up and down in that channel.

a v ňom sa pohybuje hrudník nahor a nadol.

So it's anti-naturalistic really, the up and down movement,

Ten pohyb hore a dole v skutočnosti nie je prirodzený,

but it feels like breath.

ale vyzerá to ako dýchanie.

And it's very, very simple

A je veľmi veľmi jednoduchý,

because all that happens

pretože jediné, čo treba, je,

is that the puppeteer breathes with his knees.

aby bábkar dýchal svojimi kolenami.

AK: Other emotional stuff.

AK: Ďalšie emocionálne veci.

If I were to touch the horse here

Ak sa tu dotknem

on his skin,

jeho srsti,

the heart puppeteer can shake the body from inside

srdcový bábkar môže zatriasť telom zvnútra

and get the skin to quiver.

a jeho koža sa zachvie.

You'll notice, of course,

Samozrejme si všimnete,

that the puppet is made out of cane lines.

že bábka je vyrobená z trstinových paličiek.

And I would like you to believe that it was an aesthetic choice,

Chcel by som, aby ste si mysleli, že to tak je z estetického hľadiska,

that I was making a three-dimensional drawing of a horse

že som urobil trojdimenzionálnu kresbu koňa,

that somehow moves in space.

ktorá sa hýbe v priestore.

But of course, it was the cane is light,

Ale pravdaže, bolo to preto, že trstina je ľahká,

the cane is flexible, the cane is durable

trstina je pružná, trstina vydrží

and the cane is moldable.

a trstina je tvárna.

And so it was a very practical reason why it was made of cane.

Takže z trstiny je vyrobený z veľmi praktických dôvodov.

The skin itself

Koža je vyrobená

is made out of a see-through nylon mesh,

z priehľadnej nylonovej mriežky,

which, if the lighting designer

pričom, ak osvetľovač

wants the horse to almost disappear,

chce, aby kôň takmer zmizol,

she can light the background

môže nasvietiť pozadie

and the horse becomes ghostlike.

a z koňa sa stane duch.

You see the skeletal structure of it.

Môžete vidieť len jeho kostru.

Or if you light it from above, it becomes more solid.

Alebo keď ho nasvietite zhora, už nie je priehľadný.

Again, that was a practical consideration.

Znovu to bolo rozhodnutie z praktických dôvodov.

The guys inside the horse have to be able to see out.

Chlapi vo vnútri musia vidieť von.

They have to be able to act

Musia byť schopní hrať

along with their fellow actors in the production.

popri ich spoluhercoch na javisku.

And it's very much an in-the-moment activity that they're engaged in.

Viac menej je to celé o tom, čo urobia tu a teraz.

It's three heads making one character.

Tri hlavy stvárňujú jednu postavu.

But now we would like you to put Joey through some paces.

Teraz by sa Joey mohol trochu poprechádzať.

And plant.

A postaviť sa.

(Whinny)

(Erdžanie)

Thank you.

Ďakujem.

And now just --

A teraz --

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

All the way from sunny California

Až zo slnečnej Kalifornie

we have Zem Joaquin

k nám prišla Zem Joaquin,

who's going to ride the horse for us.

ktorá si na koňovi zajazdí.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

(Music)

(Hudba)

So we would like to stress

Chceli by sme zdôrazniť,

that the performance you see in the horse

že pohyby a správanie koňa, ktoré vidíte,

is three guys

sú traja muži,

who have studied horse behavior incredibly thoroughly.

ktorí podrobne preštudovali správanie koní.

BJ: Not being able to talk to one another

BJ: Na javisku sa nemôžu

while they're onstage

rozprávať,

because they're mic'd.

pretože majú mikrofóny.

The sound that that very large chest makes, of the horse --

Zvuk, ktorý vyrobí tá veľká konská hruď --

the whinnying and the nickering and everything --

erdžanie a dýchanie a všetko --

that starts usually with one performer,

to obyčajne začína s jedným hercom,

carries on with a second person

pokračuje s druhým

and ends with a third.

a končí s tretím.

AK: Mikey Brett from Leicestershire.

AK: Mikey Brett z Leicetershire.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

Mikey Brett, Craig, Leo,

Mikey Brett, Craig, Leo,

Zem Joaquin and Basil and me.

Zem Joaquin a Basil a ja.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)

Thank you. Thank you.

Ďakujem. Ďakujem.

(Applause)

(Potlesk)