The genius puppetry behind War Horse | Handspring Puppet Company

譯者: Chia-Chun Chao 審譯者: Yakun Li

Adrian Kohler: Well, we're here today

亞德里恩 科勒：我們今天來

to talk about the evolution of a puppet horse.

是要談論木偶馬的演化

Basil Jones: But actually we're going to start this evolution

貝索 瓊斯：事實上，我們要用鬣狗

with a hyena.

來開始說明

AK: The ancestor of the horse.

亞德里恩 科勒：鬣狗也就是木偶戰馬的祖先

Okay, we'll do something with it.

好，那現在我們開始表演

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Hahahaha.

哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈

The hyena is the ancestor of the horse

這隻鬣狗是木偶馬的先祖

because it was part of a production

因為他是一個叫做"非洲的浮士德"的

called "Faustus in Africa,"

製作的一部分

a Handspring Production from 1995,

是漢斯普林公司在1995年的作品

where it had to play draughts with Helen of Troy.

用來當木馬屠城記的戲劇草稿

This production was directed

這部作品是由一個

by South African artist and theater director,

南非的藝術家和導演指導

William Kentridge.

威廉肯崔吉

So it needed a very articulate front paw.

這隻鬣狗需要非常靈敏的前爪

But, like all puppets, it has other attributes.

但就像所有木偶一樣，他也有其他的特性

BJ: One of them is breath,

貝索 瓊斯：其中之一就是呼吸

and it kind of breathes.

他能呼吸

AK: Haa haa haaa.

亞德里恩 科勒：（呼吸聲）

BJ: Breath is really important for us.

貝索 瓊斯：呼吸對我們而言是很重要的

It's the kind of original movement

這是對於對於所有在舞台上的木偶

for any puppet for us onstage.

最基本的動作

It's the thing that distinguishes the puppet --

這是用來區分木偶 ......

AK: Oops.

亞德里恩 科勒：啊

BJ: From an actor.

貝索 瓊斯：和演員的一點

Puppets always have to try to be alive.

木偶總是試圖要活過來

It's their kind of ur-story onstage,

這是他們在舞台上的故事

that desperation to live.

他們對生命的渴望

AK: Yeah, it's basically a dead object, as you can see,

亞德里恩 科勒：就像大家看到的，這其實就是一個沒有生命的物體

and it only lives

只有在你使他活過來時

because you make it.

他才會有生命

An actor struggles to die onstage,

演員努力在台上演死去

but a puppet has to struggle to live.

木偶則努力想要活起來

And in a way that's a metaphor for life.

這也是一種生命的隱喻

BJ: So every moment it's on the stage, it's making the struggle.

貝索 瓊斯：所以任何時刻只要在台上，木偶都努力活起來

So we call this

我們就叫他

a piece of emotional engineering

一個情感工程

that uses up-to-the-minute

使用了最新的

17th century technology --

17世紀的技術

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

to turn nouns

來把名詞

into verbs.

變成動詞

AK: Well actually I prefer to say

事實上我比較喜歡說

that it's an object

這是一個物體

constructed out of wood and cloth

由木頭和布所做成

with movement built into it

並且有動作植入其中

to persuade you to believe that it has life.

來說服你相信他有生命

BJ: Okay so.

貝索 瓊斯：好的所以

AK: It has ears that move passively

亞德里恩 科勒：當他的頭轉動的時候

when the head goes.

耳朵可以跟著擺動

BJ: And it has these bulkheads

貝索 瓊斯：而且他有這些隔板

made out of plywood,

是由膠合板做成的

covered with fabric --

覆蓋上布料

curiously similar, in fact,

事實上就和

to the plywood canoes

亞德里恩父親孩童時

that Adrian's father used to make

在工作室所做的

when he was a boy in their workshop.

膠合板獨木舟出奇的相似

AK: In Port Elizabeth, the village outside Port Elizabeth in South Africa.

亞德里恩 科勒：在南非伊麗沙伯港，港外的小村莊

BJ: His mother was a puppeteer.

貝索 瓊斯：他的母親是個木偶表演者

And when we met at art school

當1971年

and fell in love

我們在藝術學校相遇

in 1971,

並且相愛時

I hated puppets.

我非常討厭木偶

I really thought they were so beneath me.

我真的覺得他們對我而言太低等了

I wanted to become an avant-garde artist --

我想成為一個前衛的藝術家

and Punch and Judy was certainly not where I wanted to go.

龐奇與茱蒂（英國傳統木偶劇）絕不是我想做的

And, in fact, it took about 10 years

事實上，我大概10年之後

to discover

才發現

the Bambara Bamana puppets of Mali in West Africa,

西非國家馬利的特有布偶

where there's a fabulous tradition of puppetry,

那裡有驚人的木偶製作傳統

to learn a renewed, or a new, respect

讓我學到了更新的，或者全新的

for this art form.

對於這種藝術形式的尊敬

AK: So in 1981, I persuaded Basil and some friends of mine

亞德里恩 科勒：所以在1981年，我說服貝索和我的一些朋友

to form a puppet company.

成立了一個木偶公司

And 20 years later, miraculously,

20年後，出乎意料地

we collaborated with a company from Mali,

我們和馬利的一間公司合作

the Sogolon Marionette Troupe of Bamako,

巴馬科的索格隆木馬團

where we made a piece about a tall giraffe.

我們做了一個很高的長頸鹿木偶

It was just called "Tall Horse," which was a life-sized giraffe.

他被稱做"高馬"，大小就和真的長頸鹿一樣

BJ: And here again, you see the same structure.

貝索 瓊斯：在這裡，你又可以看到同樣的結構

The bulkheads have now turned into hoops of cane,

只是隔板改用藤圈做成

but it's ultimately the same structure.

但終究是一樣的結構

It's got two people inside it on stilts,

他需要兩個踩著高蹺的人在裡面

which give them the height,

高蹺給他們所需要的高度

and somebody in the front

還有另一個人在前面

who's using a kind of steering wheel to move that head.

用類似方向盤的東西來移動頭部

AK: The person in the hind legs

亞德里恩 科勒：一個人在後腿

is also controlling the tail, a bit like the hyena --

同時控制尾巴，這有點像鬣狗

same mechanism, just a bit bigger.

同樣的機械結構，只是比較大

And he's controlling the ear movement.

另外他還控制耳朵的移動

BJ: So this production

貝索 瓊斯：這個製作

was seen by Tom Morris

被倫敦國家劇團的

of the National Theatre in London.

湯姆莫里斯看到了

And just around that time,

而且差不多在那時候

his mother had said,

他的母親說

"Have you seen this book by Michael Morpurgo

你有沒有看過一本麥克莫波格寫的書

called 'War Horse'?"

叫做"戰馬"？

AK: It's about a boy who falls in love with a horse.

亞德里恩 科勒：這是關於一個男孩愛上一匹馬的故事

The horse is sold to the First World War,

這批馬被賣去參加第一次世界大戰

and he joins up to find his horse.

男孩為了找到這批馬就參加了戰爭

BJ: So Tom gave us a call and said,

貝索 瓊斯：所以湯姆就打了通電話給我們說

"Do you think you could make us a horse

"你們覺得你們能不能為我們做出一匹馬

for a show to happen at the National Theatre?"

在國家劇院表演？"

AK: It seemed a lovely idea.

亞德里恩 科勒：這似乎是個極好的主意

BJ: But it had to ride. It had to have a rider.

貝索 瓊斯：但是這匹馬要可以騎，他需要扛起一個騎士

AK: It had to have a rider,

亞德里恩 科勒：他需要一個騎士

and it had to participate in cavalry charges.

他還得加入騎兵隊的進攻

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

A play about early 20th century plowing technology

對於倫敦的國家劇院來說

and cavalry charges

一個關於二十世紀早期的耕地技術

was a little bit of a challenge for the accounting department

和騎兵隊進攻的戲，這樣的費用

at the National Theatre in London.

是有點超支了

But they agreed to go along with it for a while.

但是他們同意先做一陣子再說

So we began with a test.

所以我們就開始測試

BJ: This is Adrian and Thys Stander,

貝索 瓊斯：這是亞德里恩和希斯斯丹德

who went on to actually design the cane system for the horse,

他們是戰馬藤圈系統的設計者

and our next-door neighbor Katherine,

我們的鄰居凱瑟琳

riding on a ladder.

在梯子上

The weight is really difficult when it's up above your head.

這樣的重量在懸在頭頂的時候其實是很重的

AK: And once we put Katherine

亞德里恩 科勒：一旦我們讓凱瑟琳

through that particular brand of hell,

經歷了這個特別的煉獄

we knew that we might be able to make a horse, which could be ridden.

我們就知道我們應該可以製作一匹馬，一匹可以騎的馬

So we made a model.

所以我們做了一個模型

This is a cardboard model,

這是個厚紙板模型

a little bit smaller than the hyena.

這比鬣狗小了一點

You'll notice that the legs are plywood legs

你們會注意到這些腿是膠合板做的

and the canoe structure is still there.

也使用了獨木舟的結構

BJ: And the two manipulators are inside.

貝索 瓊斯：兩個操縱者在裡面

But we didn't realize at the time

但是當時我們沒有意識到

that we actually needed a third manipulator,

事實上我們需要第三個操縱者

because we couldn't manipulate the neck

因為我們沒辦法從裡面

from inside

控制脖子

and walk the horse at the same time.

同時又讓馬行走

AK: We started work on the prototype

亞德里恩 科勒：在設計模型通過之後

after the model was approved,

我們開始製作雛形

and the prototype took a bit longer

製造這個雛形花的時間

than we anticipated.

比我們預期的要長

We had to throw out the plywood legs and make new cane ones.

我們必須丟棄膠合板的腿，用藤條製作新的

And we had a crate built for it.

而且我們還要為他製作一個大箱子

It had to be shipped to London.

這匹馬需要被運到倫敦

We were going to test-drive it on the street outside of our house in Cape Town,

我們原本要在開普敦的街上試跑

and it got to midnight and we hadn't done that yet.

但一直忙到半夜所以我們一直都沒這麼做

BJ: So we got a camera,

貝索 瓊斯：所以我們拿照相機

and we posed the puppet

把木馬擺出

in various galloping stances.

各種奔跑的姿勢

And we sent it off

然後把照片

to the National Theatre,

寄到國家劇院

hoping that they believed

希望他們相信

that we created something that worked.

我們製作出的這個東西是可以用的

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

AK: A month later, we were there in London

亞德里恩 科勒：一個月之後，我們帶著這個大箱子到達倫敦

with this big box and a studio full of people about to work with us.

見到一整個將要和我們合作的工作室的人員

BJ: About 40 people.

大概有四十個人

AK: We were terrified.

亞德里恩 科勒：我們很害怕

We opened the lid, we took the horse out,

我們打開蓋子，把馬拿出來

and it did work; it walked and it was able to be ridden.

他真的能動，他能走也能騎

Here I have an 18-second clip

這裡我有一個十八秒的影像

of the very first walk of the prototype.

是這個雛形真正第一次行走

This is in the National Theatre studio,

這是在國家劇院的劇場

the place where they cook new ideas.

是他們想出新題材的地方

It had by no means got the green light yet.

當時我們還沒有通過

The choreographer, Toby Sedgwick,

編舞者，陶比席德維克

invented a beautiful sequence

設計了一套優美的動作

where the baby horse,

這個小馬

which was made out of sticks and bits of twigs,

整個由樹枝和細棍做成的

grew up into the big horse.

長大變成了壯馬

And Nick Starr, the director of the National Theatre,

國家劇院的導演尼克史塔爾

saw that particular moment, he was standing next to me -- he nearly wet himself.

看到了這個特別的片段，他站在我旁邊，他差點要尿濕褲子了

And so the show was given the green light.

就這樣這個表演就通過了

And we went back to Cape Town and redesigned the horse completely.

然後我們回到開普敦，重新設計了整匹馬

Here is the plan.

這就是我們的計畫

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And here is our factory in Cape Town

這是我們在開普敦的工廠

where we make horses.

我們製作馬的地方

You can see quite a lot of skeletons in the background there.

你可以看到在背景裡有很多的骨架

The horses are completely handmade.

這些馬都是手工製作的

There is very little 20th century technology in them.

很少有用到二十世紀的科技

We used a bit of laser cutting on the plywood

我們用一點鐳射技術切割膠合板

and some of the aluminum pieces.

和一些鋁片

But because they have to be light and flexible,

但是因為這些馬必須要很輕、很靈活

and each one of them is different,

而且每一匹都要不一樣

they can't be mass-produced, unfortunately.

所以很不幸，他們不能被批量生產

So here are some half-finished horses

所以這裡有一些半成品的馬

ready to be worked in London.

需要在倫敦繼續加工

And now we would like to introduce you

現在我們要向大家介紹

to Joey.

喬依

Joey boy, you there?

小喬依，你在哪裡？

Joey.

喬依

(Applause)

（掌聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Joey.

喬依

Joey, come here.

喬依，來這裡

No, no, I haven't got it.

不，不，我這裡沒有（食物）

He's got it; it's in his pocket.

他口袋裡有

BJ: Joey.

貝索 瓊斯：喬依

AK: Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey.

亞德里恩 科勒：喬依，喬依，喬依，喬依

Come here. Stand here where people can see you.

來這裡，站在這裡大家才看得到你

Move around. Come on.

動一動，來吧

I'd just like to describe --

我想和大家說明一下

I won't talk too loud. He might get irritated.

我不會說太大聲，不然他可能會被激怒

Here, Craig is working the head.

這裡，克雷格在控制他的頭

He has bicycle brake cables

他用的是腳踏車的剎車線

going down to the head control in his hand.

每條都連接到他手裡握著的頭部控制中心

Each one of them

每一條

operates either an ear, separately,

分別控制一邊耳朵

or the head, up and down.

或是頭部的上下移動

But he also controls the head directly

他也用他的手直接

by using his hand.

控制馬的頭

The ears are obviously

顯然地，耳朵

a very important emotional indicator of the horse.

是表現馬兒情緒很重要的方式

When they point right back,

當耳朵向後指

the horse is fearful or angry,

馬是害怕或者生氣的

depending upon what's going on in front of him, around him.

取決於馬前面或周圍發生什麼事

Or, when he's more relaxed, the head comes down

或者當馬放鬆的時候，他的頭就會垂下來

and the ears listen, either side.

耳朵會聽，指向兩邊

Horses' hearing is very important.

馬的聽覺是非常重要的

It's almost more important than their eyesight.

幾乎比他們的視力還要重要

Over here,

看這裡

Tommy's got what you call the heart position.

湯姆掌握了所謂的心臟部位

He's working the leg.

他負責操控馬腿

You see the string tendon from the hyena,

看這裡的弦腱

the hyena's front leg,

像在鬣狗的前腿裡一樣

automatically pulls the hoop up.

自動把環拉起來

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Horses are so unpredictable.

馬是不可預測的

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

The way a hoof comes up with a horse

馬抬蹄的方式

immediately gives you the feeling

馬上就讓你覺得

that it's a convincing horse action.

這是真的馬的動作

The hind legs have got the same action.

後腳也有一樣的動作

BJ: And Mikey also has,

貝索 瓊斯：另外麥奇還有

in his fingers,

在他的手指裡

the ability to move the tail

控制馬尾巴的能力

from left to right,

從左到右

and up and down with the other hand.

另外一手控制上下

And together, there's quite a complex possibility

這些合在一起，就是非常複雜的各種

of tail expression.

尾巴“表情”的組合

AK: You want to say something about the breathing?

亞德里恩 科勒：你想要說說關於呼吸的部分嗎

BJ: We had a big challenge with breathing.

貝索 瓊斯：呼吸方面我們遇到了很大的挑戰

Adrian thought

亞德里恩認為

that he was going to have to split the chest of the puppet in two

他必須要把木偶的胸切成兩半

and make it breathe like that --

來這樣呼吸

because that's how a horse would breathe, with an expanded chest.

因為這是真的馬呼吸的樣子，胸部擴張

But we realized

但是我們發現

that, if that were to be happening,

如果這樣做

you wouldn't, as an audience, see the breath.

身為一個觀眾，你們是看不到他呼吸的

So he made a channel in here,

所以他在這裡做了一個通道

and the chest moves up and down in that channel.

胸腔就會在這個通道裡上下動

So it's anti-naturalistic really, the up and down movement,

這個上下移動的動作是違反自然的

but it feels like breath.

但感覺上很像呼吸

And it's very, very simple

而且這非常非常的簡單

because all that happens

因為要馬呼吸

is that the puppeteer breathes with his knees.

只需要操控的人膝蓋的運動

AK: Other emotional stuff.

亞德里恩 科勒：另一個有關馬的情緒的事情。

If I were to touch the horse here

如果我從這裡摸馬

on his skin,

的皮膚

the heart puppeteer can shake the body from inside

在核心操控木馬的人可以從裡面搖動馬的身體

and get the skin to quiver.

讓皮膚顫動

You'll notice, of course,

當然，你會發現

that the puppet is made out of cane lines.

這個木偶是由藤條做成的

And I would like you to believe that it was an aesthetic choice,

而且我希望你們能相信這是個審美上的選擇

that I was making a three-dimensional drawing of a horse

就是這是一個我畫的馬的三維立體圖

that somehow moves in space.

這個圖不知怎的就在空間裡動起來的

But of course, it was the cane is light,

當然，這裡用的藤蔓很輕

the cane is flexible, the cane is durable

藤蔓有彈性、很耐用

and the cane is moldable.

可塑性也很強

And so it was a very practical reason why it was made of cane.

用藤蔓製作還有一個很實際的考慮

The skin itself

就是皮膚本身

is made out of a see-through nylon mesh,

是用透明的尼龍網製成的

which, if the lighting designer

如果燈光師

wants the horse to almost disappear,

想讓馬幾乎消失在舞台上

she can light the background

他可以打亮背景

and the horse becomes ghostlike.

讓馬變成幽靈一般

You see the skeletal structure of it.

你可以看見馬的骨骼結構

Or if you light it from above, it becomes more solid.

或者如果你從下面打燈，他會變得更厚實

Again, that was a practical consideration.

這又是一個很實際的考量

The guys inside the horse have to be able to see out.

馬裡面的人必須要可以看到外面

They have to be able to act

他們必須能夠反應

along with their fellow actors in the production.

和表演中其他演員演出對手戲

And it's very much an in-the-moment activity that they're engaged in.

他們所從事的這項活動是非常注重及時性的

It's three heads making one character.

三個人來呈現這一個角色

But now we would like you to put Joey through some paces.

現在我要你們讓喬依動起來

And plant.

然後停住

(Whinny)

（馬嘶聲）

Thank you.

謝謝

And now just --

現在

(Applause)

（掌聲）

All the way from sunny California

從美國加州遠道而來的

we have Zem Joaquin

森姆 喬安坤

who's going to ride the horse for us.

將要為我們騎乘這匹馬

(Applause)

（掌聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

(Music)

（音樂）

So we would like to stress

我們想強調的是

that the performance you see in the horse

你們看到在馬裡面表演的

is three guys

是三個人

who have studied horse behavior incredibly thoroughly.

他們都徹底仔細研究過馬的行為

BJ: Not being able to talk to one another

貝索 瓊斯：他們在台上時

while they're onstage

是不能互相交談的

because they're mic'd.

因為他們都配戴著麥克風

The sound that that very large chest makes, of the horse --

馬的胸腔發出的聲音

the whinnying and the nickering and everything --

輕聲嘶鳴或大聲嘶吼等等的

that starts usually with one performer,

通常都是由一個表演者發出的

carries on with a second person

然後第二個人才接上去

and ends with a third.

第三個人結束

AK: Mikey Brett from Leicestershire.

亞德里恩 科勒：麥奇 布瑞特，來自英國列斯特郡

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Mikey Brett, Craig, Leo,

麥奇 布瑞特、克雷格、里奧

Zem Joaquin and Basil and me.

森姆 喬安坤、貝索和我

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Thank you. Thank you.

謝謝，謝謝

(Applause)

（掌聲）