The weird history of the "sex chromosomes" | Molly Webster

214,285 views ใƒป 2020-04-21

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ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุฃุฏู†ุงู‡ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ.

00:00
Transcriber: Ivana Korom Reviewer: Krystian Aparta
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ุงู„ู…ุชุฑุฌู…: Shimaa Nabil ุงู„ู…ุฏู‚ู‘ู‚: Riyad Almubarak
00:12
OK.
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ุญุณู†ุงู‹.
00:14
So we are going to start in 1891,
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ุณูˆู ู†ุจุฏุฃ ู…ู† ุนุงู… 1891ุŒ
00:17
when a German scientist was looking through a microscope
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุนุงู„ู… ุฃู„ู…ุงู†ูŠ ูŠู†ุธุฑ ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ู…ูŠูƒุฑุณูƒูˆุจ
00:20
at insect cells.
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ู„ุฎู„ูŠุฉ ุญุดุฑุฉ.
00:22
And he saw something kind of funny.
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ูˆุฑุฃู‰ ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ู…ุถุญูƒุงู‹.
00:24
At the center of the cells, there was this dark stuff.
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ููŠ ู…ุฑูƒุฒ ุงู„ุฎู„ูŠุฉุŒ ูˆุฌุฏ ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ุฏุงูƒู†ุงู‹.
00:28
No one had ever seen it before.
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ู„ู… ูŠุดุงู‡ุฏู‡ ุฃุญุฏ ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„.
00:29
And he noticed that as the cells would multiply and divide,
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ูˆู„ุงุญุธ ุฃู† ุงู„ุฎู„ูŠุฉ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชุชุถุงุนู ูˆุชู†ุดุทุฑุŒ
00:33
it would go into some of the new cells
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ูุฅู†ู‡ุง ุชุฐู‡ุจ ู„ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฎู„ุงูŠุง ุงู„ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ
00:36
but not the others.
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ุฏูˆู† ุจุงู‚ูŠ ุงู„ุฎู„ุงูŠุง.
00:37
He didn't know what it was, so he gave it a really great name.
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ูŠุนุฑู ู…ุงู‡ูŠุชู‡ุงุŒ ู„ุฐุง ุฃุนุทุงู‡ุง ุงุณู… ุนุธูŠู… ุญู‚ุงู‹.
00:40
He called it the "X element."
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ุงุณู…ุงู‡ุง "ุนู†ุตุฑ X".
00:42
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
00:43
And he was like, "We'll just fill in that X later."
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ูˆูƒุงู† ู…ูˆู‚ูู‡ ุชุฌุงู‡ู‡ุง "ุณู†ุฌุฏ ู…ุนู†ู‰ X ุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ"
00:46
And then, fast-forward 10 years later,
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ูˆุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ุจุนุฏ 10 ุณู†ูˆุงุชุŒ
00:50
and there is an American scientist,
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ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุนุงู„ู…ุฉ ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒูŠุฉุŒ
00:52
and she is looking through her microscope,
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ุชู†ุธุฑ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ู…ูŠูƒุฑูˆุณูƒูˆุจุŒ
00:54
also at insect cells.
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ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ููŠ ุฎู„ูŠุฉ ุญุดุฑุฉ.
00:56
And she sees something funny.
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ูˆุฌุฏุช ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ู…ุถุญูƒุงู‹.
00:58
There's more of this dark stuff.
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ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุฃุดูŠุงุก ุฏุงูƒู†ุฉ ุฃูƒุซุฑ.
01:00
And it's kind of tiny,
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ูˆู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุง ุตุบูŠุฑุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹ุŒ
01:01
it's hanging out near the X element.
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ู…ุนู„ู‚ุฉ ุจุฌูˆุงุฑ ุนู†ุตุฑ X.
01:04
And eventually, someone was like,
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ูˆุฃุฎูŠุฑุงู‹ุŒ ู‚ุงู„ุชุŒ
01:06
"Well, if that one thing's called X,
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"ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุดูŠุก ูŠุณู…ู‰ XุŒ
01:07
should we call this other thing Y?"
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ู‡ู„ ูŠุฌุจ ุชุณู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุขุฎุฑ YุŸ"
01:10
And like that, (Snaps fingers)
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ูˆู‡ูƒุฐุงุŒ (ู…ุฌุฑุฏ ููƒุฑุฉ)
01:11
the sex chromosomes had been discovered.
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ุชู… ุงูƒุชุดุงู ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ.
01:14
So chromosomes,
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ู„ุฐุง ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุชุŒ
01:15
you probably all know what they are,
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ุฑุจู…ุง ุชุนุฑููˆู† ูƒู„ูƒู… ู…ุง ู‡ู…ุŒ
01:17
but I will tell you anyways.
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ู„ูƒู†ูŠ ุณุฃุฎุจุฑูƒู… ุนู„ู‰ ุฃูŠุฉ ุญุงู„.
01:19
They're made up of DNA --
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ูŠุตู†ุนูˆู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุญู…ุถ ุงู„ู†ูˆูˆูŠ --
01:20
everything has it, it's the blueprint of life,
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ูƒู„ ุดูŠุก ู„ุฏูŠู‡ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ุฅู†ู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฎุทุท ุงู„ุฃุณุงุณูŠ ู„ู„ุญูŠุงุฉุŒ
01:23
we've got rats, we've got trees,
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ููŠ ุงู„ูุฆุฑุงู† ูˆุงู„ุฃุดุฌุงุฑุŒ
01:24
we've got insects, we've got humans.
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ุงู„ุญุดุฑุงุช ูˆุงู„ุจุดุฑ.
01:27
And in the case of human chromosomes,
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ูˆููŠ ุญุงู„ุฉ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฅู†ุณุงู†ุŒ
01:30
geneticist Melissa Wilson broke it down for me like this.
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ุญู„ู„ุช ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ูŠุฉ ู…ู„ูŠุณุง ูˆู„ุณู† ู„ูŠ ู‡ุฐุง.
01:34
(Audio) Melissa Wilson: Typically, you'll get one copy of every chromosome
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(ุตูˆุช) ู…ู„ูŠุณุง ูˆู„ุณู†: ุนุงุฏุฉุŒ ุฃู†ุช ุชู…ู„ูƒ ู†ุณุฎุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ ู…ู† ูƒู„ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…
01:37
from your genetic mom
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ู…ู† ูˆุงู„ุฏุชูƒ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ูŠุฉ
01:38
and one copy of every chromosome from your genetic dad,
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ูˆู†ุณุฎุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ ู…ู† ูƒู„ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ู…ู† ูˆุงู„ุฏูƒ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ูŠุŒ
01:41
and we have 22 of these
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ูˆู†ุญู† ู†ู…ู„ูƒ 22 ู…ู†ู‡ู…
01:43
that you get one copy from mom and one copy from dad.
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุงูƒุชุณุจุชู‡ู… ู…ู† ู†ุณุฎุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ ู…ู† ูˆุงู„ุฏุชูƒ ูˆู†ุณุฎุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ ู…ู† ูˆุงู„ุฏูƒ.
01:46
And then there's a 23rd pair, X and Y.
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ูˆุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุงู„ุฒูˆุฌ ุงู„ู€ 23ุŒ X ูˆY.
01:50
Molly Webster: So while all the other chromosomes are numbered,
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ู„ุฐุง ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ุชู… ุชุฑู‚ูŠู… ูƒู„ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฃุฎุฑู‰ุŒ
01:53
one through 22,
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ู…ู† 1 ุฅู„ู‰ 22ุŒ
01:55
we do not call X and Y 23.
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ู„ุง ู†ุณู…ูŠ X ูˆY ุงู„ู€ 23.
01:58
I like to think that they are waiting for, like, a LeBron James to come along.
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ุฃูˆุฏ ุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ูŠู†ุชุธุฑูˆู†ุŒ ู…ุซู„ุŒ ู„ูˆุจุฑูˆู† ุฌู…ูŠุณ ุฃู† ูŠุฃุชูŠ.
02:02
But in this instance, they were like,
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ู„ูƒู† ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุญุงู„ุฉุŒ ู‚ุงู„ูˆุงุŒ
02:04
"We're just going to keep the letters,
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"ูู‚ุท ุณู†ุญุงูุธ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญุฑูˆูุŒ
02:06
and then we'll give them a title."
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ูˆุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ุณู†ุนุทูŠู‡ู… ุนู†ูˆุงู†."
02:08
They called them the sex chromosomes.
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ุชู… ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ู… ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ.
02:10
Now I would wager that in the United States,
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ูˆุงู„ุขู† ุณุฃุฑุงู‡ู† ุฃู†ู‡ ููŠ ุงู„ูˆู„ุงูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉุŒ
02:13
these are the most well-known chromosomes
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ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุดู‡ุฑุฉ
02:16
for one simple fact:
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ู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุจุณูŠุทุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ:
02:17
that we say X equals "girl," and Y equals "boy" --
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู†ู‚ูˆู„ ุฃู† X ุชุณุงูˆูŠ "ูุชุงุฉ" ูˆY ุชุณุงูˆูŠ "ุตุจูŠ" --
02:20
that they are responsible for sex.
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ูˆู‡ู… ูŠู…ุซู„ูˆู† ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ.
02:23
And -- and I had to learn this --
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ูˆูˆุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠ ุชุนู„ู… ุฐู„ูƒ --
02:25
but when I'm talking about "sex" here,
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ู„ูƒู† ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุฃุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† "ุฌู†ุณ" ู‡ู†ุงุŒ
02:27
I'm talking about the way biology gives us gonads,
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ุฃุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ุงู„ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุฃุนุทุงู†ุง ุจู‡ุง ุนู„ู… ุงู„ุฃุญูŠุงุก ุงู„ุฃุนุถุงุก ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠุฉุŒ
02:30
which are our ovaries and our testes --
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ูˆู‡ู… ุงู„ู…ุจูŠุถูŠู† ูˆุงู„ุฎุตูŠุชูŠู† --
02:32
I'm not talking about gender, which is how we identify.
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ู„ุง ุฃุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ุงู„ู†ูˆุนุŒ ุงู„ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ู†ูุญุฏุฏ ุจู‡ุง.
02:35
And so, as a reporter at the show --
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ู„ุฐุงุŒ ูƒุงู„ู…ุฑุงุณู„ุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ --
02:38
"Radiolab," the audio documentary program I work for --
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"ุฑุงุฏูŠูˆู„ุงุจ"ุŒ ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ุงู„ูˆุซุงุฆู‚ูŠ ุงู„ู…ุณู…ูˆุน ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุนู…ู„ ุจู‡...
02:43
I was like, what's up with these sex chromosomes?
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ูƒู†ุช ุฃุณุฃู„ุŒ ู…ุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ู…ุน ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณุŸ
02:46
You know, that's kind of my job, I think things are weird,
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ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŒ ูƒู†ูˆุน ู…ู† ุนู…ู„ูŠุŒ ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ุบุฑูŠุจุฉุŒ
ูˆุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ู‚ู…ุช ุจู…ูƒุงู„ู…ุฉ ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุนู†ู‡ู…
02:49
and then I get to call people about them
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ูˆุณุฃู„ุช ุฃุณุฆู„ุฉุŒ ูˆู„ุญุณู† ุงู„ุญุธ ุฃุฌุงุจูˆุง.
02:51
and ask questions, and then hopefully they answer.
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ูˆููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุญุงู„ุฉุŒ ูƒุซูŠุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุฃุฌุงุจูˆุง.
02:53
And in this case, a lot of people answered.
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02:55
And in the two years I had of reporting on X and Y,
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ูˆุฎู„ุงู„ ุนุงู…ูŠู† ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠ ุชู‚ุงุฑูŠุฑ ุนู† X ูˆYุŒ
ูƒุฌุฒุก ู…ู† "ุงู„ุฃุนุถุงุก ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠุฉ"ุŒ ู…ุณู„ุณู„ ุนู† ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ูˆุงู„ุฃุนุถุงุก ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠุฉ
02:59
as part of "Gonads," the series on sex and gender
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03:01
I ended up doing for "Radiolab,"
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ุฃู†ู‡ูŠุช ุนู…ู„ู‡ ู„ู€ "ุฑุงุฏูŠูˆู„ุงุจ"ุŒ
03:03
I found out that these two chromosomes live in a world that is unexpected,
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ุงูƒุชุดูุช ุฃู† ู‡ุฐูŠู† ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ูŠู† ูŠุนูŠุดุงู† ููŠ ุนุงู„ู… ุบูŠุฑ ู…ูุชูˆู‚ุนุŒ
03:09
a little unsettling;
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ู…ูู‚ู„ู‚ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹ุ›
03:10
where things that I thought were facts
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ุญูŠุซ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ุงู„ุชูŠ ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏุช ุฃู†ู‡ุง ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚
03:12
were, like, twisted in ways I hadn't seen before.
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ูƒุงู†ุชุŒ ู…ุซู„ุŒ ุงู†ุญุฑูุช ุจุทุฑู‚ ู„ู… ุฃุฑู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„.
03:15
And the world goes so far beyond the boundaries of sex,
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ูˆุฐู‡ุจ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุฃุจุนุฏ ู…ู† ุญุฏูˆุฏ ุงู„ุฌู†ุณุŒ
03:20
I was like,
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ู‚ู„ุชุŒ
03:21
"Maybe we should all talk about this."
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"ุฑุจู…ุง ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ ุงู„ุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ู‡ุฐุง."
03:23
So, you're you all,
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ู„ุฐุงุŒ ูƒู„ูƒู… ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ุŒ
03:25
we're all going to talk about it.
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ุณู†ุชุญุฏุซ ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ ุนู† ู‡ุฐุง.
03:28
And for me,
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ูˆุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ูŠุŒ
03:30
the true story of X and Y starts with their name.
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ุชุจุฏุฃ ุงู„ู‚ุตุฉ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุฉ ู„ู€ X ูˆY ู…ุน ุงุณู…ู‡ู…ุง.
03:34
So within years of being discovered,
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ู„ุฐุง ุฎู„ุงู„ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ู…ู† ุงู„ุงูƒุชุดุงูุŒ
03:37
these two little chromosomes had acquired more than 10 different names.
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ุงูƒุชุณุจุง ู‡ุฐุงู† ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงู† ุงู„ุตุบูŠุฑุงู† ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† 10 ุฃุณู…ุงุก ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ.
03:41
There was diplosome and heterochromosome
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ู…ุซู„ ุฏูŠุจู„ูŠุณูˆู… ูˆู‡ุชูŠุฑูˆูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…
03:44
and idiochromosome,
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ูˆุฅุฏูŠูˆูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุŒ
03:46
and most of the names had to do with their structure, their shape,
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ูˆุชู‚ูˆู… ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ุฃุณู…ุงุก ุนู„ู‰ ุจู†ูŠุชู‡ู… ูˆุดูƒู„ู‡ู…
03:49
their size.
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ูˆุญุฌู…ู‡ู….
03:51
And then there was "sex chromosome,"
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ุซู… ูŠูˆุฌุฏ "ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ"ุŒ
03:53
which they had been given because of the fact
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ุชู… ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ู… ุจุณุจุจ ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ
03:55
that we had started seeing that the X would go with the females,
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ุฃู†ู†ุง ุจุฏุฃู†ุง ุฑุคูŠุฉ ุฃู† X ูŠุชู…ุงุดู‰ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฅู†ุงุซุŒ
03:58
and the Y would often go with the males.
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ูˆY ูŠุชู…ุงุดู‰ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฐูƒูˆุฑ.
04:01
But scientists were like,
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ู„ูƒู† ู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ุนู„ู…ุงุกุŒ
04:03
"Do we really want to call them sex chromosomes?"
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"ู‡ู„ ุญู‚ุงู‹ ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ู… ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณุŸ"
04:06
And science historian Sarah Richardson is the one who told me this story.
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ุงู„ู…ุคุฑุฎุฉ ุงู„ุนู„ู…ูŠุฉ ุณุงุฑุฉ ุฑูŠุชุดุงุฑุฏุณูˆู† ู‡ูŠ ู…ู† ุฃุฎุจุฑุชูŠ ุจู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู‚ุตุฉ.
04:11
(Audio) Sarah Richardson: For three decades, scientists were like,
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(ุตูˆุช) ุณุงุฑุฉ ุฑูŠุชุดุงุฑุฏุณูˆู†: ู„ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุนู‚ูˆุฏุŒ ู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ุนู„ู…ุงุกุŒ
04:14
"You should not call them the sex chromosomes.
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"ู„ุง ูŠุฌุจ ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ู… ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ.
04:17
The X and Y have many functions,
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ู„ุฏู‰ X ูˆY ูˆุธุงุฆู ุนุฏูŠุฏุฉุŒ
04:19
and you wouldn't assume that a single chromosome
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ูˆู„ุง ูŠููุชุฑุถ ุฃู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ูˆุงุญุฏ
04:23
controls a single trait.
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ูŠุชุญูƒู… ููŠ ุตูุฉ ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ.
04:25
Imagine calling one chromosome the 'urogenital chromosome,'
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ุชุฎูŠู„ ุชุณู…ูŠุฉ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ูˆุงุญุฏ "ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ุจูˆู„ูŠ ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠ"ุŒ
04:29
or the 'liver chromosome.'"
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ุฃูˆ "ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ูƒุจุฏ".
04:33
MW: Scientists, if you dig into the history --
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ุนู„ู…ุงุกุŒ ู„ูˆ ุจุญุซุช ููŠ ุงู„ุชุงุฑูŠุฎ --
04:35
it's really cool, you should --
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ุฅู†ู‡ ุฑุงุฆุน ุญู‚ุงู‹ุŒ ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠูƒ --
04:37
were hesitant to, like, commit to such a specific name
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ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ู…ุชุฑุฏุฏูŠู†ุŒ ู…ุซู„ุŒ ุงู„ุงู„ุชุฒุงู… ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุงุณู… ุงู„ู…ุญุฏุฏ
04:42
and such a powerfully connotated name.
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ูˆู…ุซู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุงุณู… ุฐูˆ ู…ุบุฒู‰ ู‚ูˆูŠ.
04:44
There was a fear that it would actually be really limiting --
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฎูˆู ู…ู† ุฃู† ูŠุญุฏ ู‡ุฐุง ุญู‚ุงู‹ --
04:47
maybe to science, maybe to society --
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ุฑุจู…ุง ู„ู„ุนู„ู… ุฃูˆ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน --
04:49
but the fear was in the room.
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ู„ูƒู† ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุฎูˆู ููŠ ุงู„ุบุฑูุฉ.
04:52
And you can see they ended up getting "sex chromosome" --
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ูˆูƒู…ุง ุชุฑู‰ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ุงู†ุชู‡ูˆุง ุจู€ "ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ" -
04:56
it's like a pretty juicy title,
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ุฅู†ู‡ ู…ุซู„ ุนู†ูˆุงู† ุฌู…ูŠู„ ู…ุซูŠุฑุŒ
04:58
it popularized genetics, you know?
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ูŠู†ุดุฑ ุนู„ู… ุงู„ูˆุฑุงุซุฉุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนู„ู…ูˆู†ุŸ
05:01
But in the 100-year history since we settled on that name,
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ู„ูƒู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ู€ 100 ุณู†ุฉ ุชุงุฑูŠุฎ ู…ู†ุฐ ุงุณุชู‚ุฑุงุฑู†ุง ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุงุณู…ุŒ
05:07
you can see it starts to get a little complicated.
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ุชุณุชุทูŠุนูˆู† ุฑุคูŠุฉ ุฃู†ู‡ ุฃุตุจุญ ู…ุนู‚ุฏุงู‹ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹.
05:11
So around 1960 --
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ู„ุฐุง ุญูˆุงู„ูŠ ุนุงู… 1960 --
05:13
this is going to be our first stop
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ุณุชูƒูˆู† ุฃูˆู„ ูˆู‚ูุฉ ู„ู†ุง
05:15
on the complicated world of the sex chromosomes --
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ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ู…ุนู‚ุฏ ู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ --
05:17
so around 1960,
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ู„ุฐุง ุญูˆุงู„ูŠ ุณู†ุฉ 1960ุŒ
05:19
we had discovered that you could be XYY.
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ุงูƒุชุดูู†ุง ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† XYY.
05:22
They discovered an XYY man.
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ุงูƒุชุดููˆุง ุฑุฌู„ุงู‹ ูŠุญู…ู„ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XYY.
05:25
And to digress a little here,
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ูˆุจุงู„ุจุญุซ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹ ู‡ู†ุงุŒ
05:27
it turns out that the model of "X equals girl and Y equals boy"
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ุงุชุถุญ ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ู…ู† "X ูŠุณุงูˆูŠ ูุชุงุฉ ูˆY ูŠุณุงูˆูŠ ุตุจูŠ"
05:32
is really simplistic.
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ู…ุจุณุท ุฌุฏุงู‹.
05:34
You can actually be a whole bunch of different combinations of X and Y,
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ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุญูู†ุฉ ูƒุงู…ู„ุฉ ู…ู† ู…ุฒูŠุฌ ู…ุฎุชู„ู ู…ู† X ูˆYุŒ
05:38
giving you, like, different types of biological sex.
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ู„ูŠุนุทูŠูƒ ุฃู†ูˆุงุน ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ุงู„ุจูŠูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠ.
05:42
You could be two Xs and two Ys together.
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ูŠู† X ูˆูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ูŠู† Y ู…ุนุงู‹.
05:44
You could be four Xs, you could be five Xs,
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ุฃูˆ 4 ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช X ุฃูˆ 5 ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช XุŒ
05:46
you could be XO.
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† XO.
05:47
And so I thought that was pretty crazy,
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ูˆู„ุฐุง ุงุนุชู‚ุฏุช ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ูƒุงู† ุฌู†ูˆู†ุงู‹ ุฌุฏุงู‹ุŒ
05:50
because I was like,
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ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ู‚ู„ุชุŒ
05:51
"Wow, this really upends a model of biological sex
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"ู‡ุฐุง ูŠู‚ู„ุจ ุญู‚ุงู‹ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ุงู„ุจูŠูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠ
05:54
I think most of us in this room have been taught."
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชู… ุชุนู„ูŠู…ู‡ ู„ู…ุนุธู…ู†ุง ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู‚ุงุนุฉ".
05:56
So a few years after they realized that you can be XYY,
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ุจุนุฏ ุณู†ูˆุงุช ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุฉ ุฃุฏุฑูƒูˆุง ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† XYYุŒ
06:00
researchers go to a prison in Scotland,
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ุฐู‡ุจ ุจุงุญุซูˆู† ุฅู„ู‰ ุณุฌู† ููŠ ุฃุณูƒุชู„ู†ุฏุงุŒ
06:02
and they do genetic analysis of a bunch of the male prisoners.
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ูˆู‚ุงู…ูˆุง ุจุชุญู„ูŠู„ ุงู„ุฌูŠู†ุงุช ู„ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุณุงุฌูŠู† ุงู„ุฐูƒูˆุฑ.
06:06
And they find a number of people who are XYY.
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ูˆูˆุฌุฏูˆุง ุนุฏุฏุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต XYY.
06:10
And according to Sarah:
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ูˆุชุจุนุงู‹ ู„ู…ุง ู‚ุงู„ุชู‡ ุณุงุฑุฉ:
06:13
(Audio) SR: They just rushed to publish a theory
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(ุตูˆุช) ุณุงุฑุฉ: ุชู… ู†ุดุฑ ู†ุธุฑูŠุฉ
06:15
suggesting that this extra Y chromosome
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ุชู‚ุชุฑุญ ุฃู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… Y ุงู„ุฒุงุฆุฏ
06:19
could explain criminality in some men.
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ูŠุณุชุทูŠุน ุชูุณูŠุฑ ุงู„ุฅุฌุฑุงู… ููŠ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฑุฌุงู„.
06:23
MW: Yeah.
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ุฃุฌู„.
06:24
So the logic goes like this:
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ู„ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ู†ุทู‚ ูŠู‚ูˆู„:
06:26
By this point, we're thinking Y is male.
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ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุญุงู„ุฉุŒ ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† Y ู‡ูˆ ุฐูƒุฑ.
06:29
We think male is aggressive,
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ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุงู„ุฐูƒุฑ ุนู†ูŠูุŒ
06:31
so Y must be aggression.
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ู„ุฐุง Y ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ุงู„ุนู†ู.
06:33
If you've got an extra Y, you must be crazy.
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… Y ุฒุงุฆุฏุŒ ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ ุฃู†ุช ู…ุฌู†ูˆู†.
06:37
And like, we went nuts with this theory.
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ูˆุฃุตุจุญู†ุง ู…ุฌุงู†ูŠู† ุจู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู†ุธุฑูŠุฉ.
06:39
We called it the supermale,
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ุชู… ุชุณู…ูŠุชู‡ุง ุงู„ุฐูƒุฑ ุงู„ุฎุงุฑู‚ุŒ
06:41
they started scanning more prisoners,
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ุจุฏุฃูˆุง ุจู…ุณุญ ุณุฌู†ุงุก ุฃูƒุซุฑุŒ
06:43
serial killers, boys.
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ู‚ุงุชู„ูŠู† ู…ุชุณู„ุณู„ูŠู† ูˆุฃูˆู„ุงุฏ.
06:47
And in all seriousness,
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ูˆุจูƒู„ ุฌุฏูŠุฉุŒ
06:48
there was actually a suggestion that we consider aborting XYY fetuses.
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ู…ู‚ุชุฑุญ ุฌุงุฏ ู„ุฅุฌู‡ุงุถ ู…ุง ู†ุนุชุจุฑู‡ ุฃุฌู†ุฉ XYY.
06:55
So in 1980,
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ู„ุฐุง ููŠ ุณู†ุฉ 1980ุŒ
06:57
this theory pretty much toppled, for a number of reasons.
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ุณู‚ุทุช ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู†ุธุฑูŠุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุญุฏ ุจุนูŠุฏ ู„ุนุฏุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุณุจุงุจ.
07:00
One,
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ุฃูˆู„ุงู‹ุŒ
07:02
there had been this really large study
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ูƒุงู† ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุฏุฑุงุณุฉ ูƒุจูŠุฑุฉ ุญู‚ุงู‹
07:04
that basically showed there was no connection
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ุชูุธู‡ุฑ ุฃู†ู‡ ุจุงู„ุฃุณุงุณ ู„ุง ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ุฃูŠ ุนู„ุงู‚ุฉ
07:06
between Y and violence,
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ุจูŠู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… Y ูˆุงู„ุนู†ูุŒ
07:08
I think we all saw that coming.
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ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู†ู†ุง ูู‡ู…ู†ุง ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ุณูŠุญุฏุซ.
07:10
And then, there was one other thing.
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ุซู…ุŒ ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุดูŠุก ูˆุงุญุฏ ุขุฎุฑ.
07:13
(Audio) SR: Going back and looking at those original findings
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(ุชุณุฌูŠู„) ุณุงุฑุฉ: ุจุงู„ุฑุฌูˆุน ูˆุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ู„ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุงุณุชู†ุชุงุฌุงุช ุงู„ุฃุตู„ูŠุฉ
07:16
in that high-security psychiatric institution,
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ููŠ ู…ุคุณุณุฉ ุงู„ุทุจ ุงู„ู†ูุณูŠ ุนุงู„ูŠ ุงู„ุญู…ุงูŠุฉุŒ
07:18
they had also found a high number of individuals
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ูˆุฌุฏูˆุง ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ุนุฏุฏุงู‹ ูƒุจูŠุฑุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต
07:23
with an extra X chromosome.
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ุจูƒูˆุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… X ุฒุงุฆุฏ.
07:25
So these are XXY, as opposed to XYY.
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ู„ุฐุง ู‡ู… ูŠุญู…ู„ูˆู† XXYุŒ ูƒู…ู‚ุงุจู„ ู„ู€ XYY.
07:29
(Audio) MW: Really?
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(ุชุณุฌูŠู„) ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ุญู‚ุงู‹ุŸ
07:30
(Audio) SR: Yeah. Now, they never claimed
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(ุตูˆุช) ุณุงุฑุฉ: ุฃุฌู„. ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ู„ู… ูŠุฒุนู…ูˆุง ุฃุจุฏุงู‹
07:32
that the individuals with an extra X chromosome
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ุฃู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุจูƒูˆุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… X ุงู„ุฒุงุฆุฏ
07:34
were superfemales.
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ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ุฅู†ุงุซ ู„ู„ุบุงูŠุฉ.
07:36
They never investigated whether they had higher rates of violence.
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ู„ู… ูŠุชุญู‚ู‚ูˆุง ุฃุจุฏุงู‹ ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุนู†ู ุฃุนู„ู‰.
07:41
MW: Seems like kind of an oversight.
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ูŠุจุฏูˆ ู†ูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุฑุงู‚ุจุฉ.
07:43
I don't know.
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ู„ุง ุฃุนู„ู….
07:44
But I think it's interesting,
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ู„ูƒู† ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุซูŠุฑุŒ
07:46
because what you see is if you start looking at these chromosomes
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ู„ุฃู† ู…ุง ุชุฑุงู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุฅุฐุง ุจุฏุฃุช ุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ู„ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช
07:51
through the lens of sex,
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ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุฌู†ุณุŒ
07:52
what naturally falls in place behind
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ู…ุง ู†ู‚ุน ููŠู‡ ุทุจูŠุนูŠุงู‹
07:54
is we look at them through the lens of gender,
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ู‡ูˆ ุฃู†ู†ุง ู†ู†ุธุฑ ู„ู‡ู… ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ู†ูˆุนุŒ
07:57
and the traits that we associate with gender.
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ูˆุงู„ุณู…ุงุช ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุฑุชุจุท ุจุงู„ู†ูˆุน.
07:59
So men were violent,
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ู„ุฐุง ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุฑุฌุงู„ ุนู†ูŠููˆู†ุŒ
08:00
and Y explained why they were in prison.
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ูˆูŠุดุฑุญ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… Y ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ูƒุงู†ูˆุง ููŠ ุงู„ุณุฌู†.
08:03
The X did not do that,
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ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… X ู„ู… ูŠูุนู„ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
08:04
because like, you know, what's X?
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ุจุณุจุจุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุชุนุฑููˆู†ุŒ ู…ุง ู‡ูˆ XุŸ
08:06
We don't associate it with violence.
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ู†ุญู† ู„ุง ู†ุฑุจุทู‡ ุจุงู„ุนู†ู.
08:08
And while we don't believe in supermales today --
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ูˆุจูŠู†ู…ุง ู„ุง ู†ุคู…ู† ุจุงู„ุฑุฌู„ ุงู„ุฎุงุฑู‚ ุงู„ูŠูˆู… --
08:12
God, I hope we don't --
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ุฑุจูŠุŒ ุขู…ู„ ุฃู„ุง ู†ูƒูˆู† --
08:13
we don't believe in supermales today,
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ู„ุง ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุจุงู„ุฃู†ุซู‰ ู„ู„ุบุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ูŠูˆู…ุŒ
08:15
there is a very similar conversation that's still happening
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ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉ ุดุจูŠู‡ุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹ ู…ุงุฒุงู„ุช ุชุญุฏุซ ุงู„ูŠูˆู…
08:18
around inherent violence in boys and biology.
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ุญูˆู„ ูˆุฑุงุซุฉ ุงู„ุนู†ู ููŠ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ุงุฏ ูˆุงู„ุฃุญูŠุงุก.
08:24
So my next stop on the weird world of X and Y,
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ู„ุฐุง ูˆู‚ูุชูŠ ุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ุบุฑูŠุจ ู„ู€ X ูˆYุŒ
08:27
or things feeling a little topsy-turvy, is 1985.
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ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุดุนูˆุฑ ุจุฃู…ูˆุฑ ู…ู‚ู„ูˆุจุฉ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹ุŒ ูŠูƒูˆู† ููŠ 1985.
08:31
The World University Games were set to happen in Japan,
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ุจุฏุฃุช ุฏูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ุฃู„ุนุงุจ ุงู„ุฌุงู…ุนูŠุฉ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ูŠุงุจุงู†ุŒ
08:35
and the Spanish hurdler Marรญa Josรฉ Martรญnez-Patiรฑo was scheduled to run.
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ูˆุงู„ุนุฏู‘ุงุกุฉ ุงู„ุฅุณุจุงู†ูŠุฉ ู…ุงุฑูŠุง ุฎูˆุณูŠู‡ ู…ุงุฑุชูŠู†ูŠุฒ ุจุงุชูŠู†ูŠูˆ ูƒุงู† ู…ุฌุฏูˆู„ุงู‹ ู„ู‡ุง ุงู„ุฌุฑูŠ.
08:41
She was like a hot shot, a rising superstar.
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ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุซู„ ู†ุฌู…ุฉ ุตุงุนุฏุฉ.
08:45
And the night before her race, they had her DNA scanned.
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ูˆุงู„ู„ูŠู„ุฉ ู‚ุจู„ ุณุจุงู‚ู‡ุงุŒ ู‚ุงู…ูˆุง ุจู…ุณุญ ุงู„ุญู…ุถ ุงู„ู†ูˆูˆูŠ ุงู„ุฎุงุต ุจู‡ุง.
08:49
Now at the time, this was a thing that they were doing,
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ุงู„ุขู† ููŠ ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ูˆู‚ุชุŒ ูƒุงู† ู‡ุฐุง ุฃู…ุฑ ูŠู‚ูˆู…ูˆู† ุจู‡ุŒ
08:52
because they were like,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู‚ุงู„ูˆุงุŒ
08:53
"OK, we don't want men covertly racing as women,
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"ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ู„ุง ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุฑุฌุงู„ุงู‹ ูŠุชุณุงุจู‚ูˆู† ุณุฑุงู‹ ูƒุงู„ู†ุณุงุกุŒ
08:57
so we're going to scan the women
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ู„ุฐุง ุณู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจู…ุณุญ ุงู„ู†ุณุงุก
08:59
and make sure all their Xs line up."
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ู„ู†ุชุฃูƒุฏ ู…ู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช X ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู…."
09:03
And so I heard this story from Ruth Padawer
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ุณู…ุนุช ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู‚ุตุฉ ู…ู† ุฑูˆุซ ุจุงุฏูˆูŠุฑ
09:06
who was a New York Times Magazine reporter
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ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุฑุงุณู„ุฉ ู„ู…ุฌู„ุฉ ู†ูŠูˆูŠูˆุฑูƒ ุชุงูŠู…ุฒ
09:08
and she reported on Marรญa.
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ูˆูƒุงู†ุช ุชุนุฏ ุชู‚ุฑูŠุฑุงู‹ ุนู† ู…ุงุฑูŠุง.
09:12
(Audio) Ruth Padawer: So they tell her the chromosome test results were abnormal.
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(ุตูˆุช) ุฑูˆุซ ุจุงุฏูˆูŠุฑ: ู„ุฐุง ุฃุฎุจุฑู‡ุง ุฃู† ุงุฎุชุจุงุฑ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ูƒุงู† ุบูŠุฑ ุทุจูŠุนูŠ.
09:15
Although on the outside, she was fully female,
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ุจุงู„ุฑุบู… ู…ู† ูƒูˆู†ู‡ุง ูุชุงุฉ ุฎุงุฑุฌูŠุงู‹ุŒ
09:18
she had XY chromosomes and these internal testes.
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ุชู…ู„ูƒ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช XY ูˆุฎุตูŠุชูŠู† ุฏุงุฎู„ุชูŠู†.
09:22
MW: They were like,
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ู‚ุงู„ูˆุงุŒ
09:23
"We hate to break it to you, Marรญa, but you're actually a dude.
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"ู†ูƒุฑู‡ ุฃู† ู†ุฎุจุฑูƒ ุจู‡ุฐุงุŒ ู…ุงุฑูŠุงุŒ ู„ูƒู†ูƒ ุญู‚ุงู‹ ูุชู‰.
09:26
You can't race with the ladies."
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ู„ุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุงู„ุนุฏูˆ ู…ุน ุงู„ุณูŠุฏุงุช."
09:30
(Audio) RP: And so she's thrown off the national team,
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(ุตูˆุช) ุฑูˆุซ ุจุงุฏูˆูŠุฑ: ูˆู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุชู… ุงุณุชุจุนุงุฏู‡ุง ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ู†ุชุฎุจ ุงู„ูˆุทู†ูŠุŒ
09:33
she's expelled from the athletics residence,
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ุชู… ุทุฑุฏู‡ุง ู…ู† ุฃู„ุนุงุจ ุงู„ู‚ูˆู‰ุŒ
09:36
she's denied her scholarship,
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ุญุฑู…ุช ู…ู† ู…ู†ุญุชู‡ุง ุงู„ุฏุฑุงุณูŠุฉุŒ
09:37
a bunch of her friends dump her,
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ุงุจุชุนุฏ ุนู†ู‡ุง ุฃุตุฏู‚ุงุฆู‡ุงุŒ
09:39
fellow athletes abandon her,
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ุชุฎู„ู‰ ุนู†ู‡ุง ุฒู…ู„ุงุฆู‡ุง ุงู„ุฑูŠุงุถูŠูˆู†ุŒ
09:41
she loses her medals, her records are revoked.
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ุณูุญุจุช ู…ู†ู‡ุง ู…ูŠุฏุงู„ูŠุงุชู‡ุง ูˆุฃูู„ุบูŠุช ุณุฌู„ุงุชู‡ุง.
09:46
MW: So it turns out --
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ู„ุฐุง ูŠุชุถุญ --
09:48
remember when I told you
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ุชุฐูƒุฑูˆุง ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู‚ู„ุช ู„ูƒู…
09:49
you can be a bunch of different combinations of X and Y --
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ู…ุฒูŠุฌ ู…ุฎุชู„ู ู…ู† X ูˆY --
09:52
you can also be XY and be female.
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† XY ูˆุชูƒูˆู† ุฃู†ุซู‰.
09:54
You can be XX and male.
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ุฃูˆ XX ุฐูƒุฑ.
09:56
In Marรญa's case, she was something called androgen insensitive.
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ููŠ ุญุงู„ุฉ ู…ุงุฑูŠุงุŒ ูƒุงู† ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ูŠุฏุนู‰ ุฃู†ุฏุฑูˆุฌูŠู† ุบูŠุฑ ุญุณุงุณ.
10:00
Which means that she did have some sort of internal testes --
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุนู†ูŠ ุฃู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ุง ุฎุตูŠุชูŠู† ุฏุงุฎู„ุชูŠู† --
10:04
they were making testosterone --
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ูŠู†ุชุฌูˆู† ู‡ุฑู…ูˆู† ุงู„ุชูŠุณุชูˆุณุชูŠุฑูˆู† --
10:06
but her body couldn't use it.
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ู„ูƒู† ู„ุง ูŠุณุชุฎุฏู…ู‡ ุฌุณุฏู‡ุง.
10:08
And so if you thought of testosterone as, like, a superpower,
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ูˆู„ุฐุง ุฅุฐุง ุงุนุชู‚ุฏุช ุฃู† ุงู„ุชูŠุณุชูˆุณุชูŠุฑูˆู† ู…ุซู„ ู‚ูˆุฉ ุฎุงุฑุฌุฉุŒ
10:11
she was not benefiting from it.
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ู‡ูŠ ู„ู… ุชุณุชูุฏ ู…ู†ู‡.
10:14
And so eventually,
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ูˆู„ุฐุง ููŠ ุงู„ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉุŒ
10:15
sports authorities, like, let her back in,
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ุณู…ุญุช ู„ู‡ุง ุงู„ุณู„ุทุงุช ุงู„ุฑูŠุงุถูŠุฉ ุจุงู„ุนูˆุฏุฉุŒ
10:17
but her career was done.
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ู„ูƒู† ุญูŠุงุชู‡ุง ุงู„ู…ู‡ู†ูŠุฉ ุงู†ุชู‡ุช.
10:20
And in this instance you see how,
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ูˆููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุญุงู„ุฉ ุชุฑู‰ ูƒูŠูุŒ
10:24
if you assign sex to a specific place in the body,
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ุฅุฐุง ู‚ู…ุช ุจุชุญุฏูŠุฏ ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ูƒุงู† ู…ุนูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ุฌุณู…ุŒ
10:27
or at least, like, this is what I saw, right?
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ุฃูˆ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃู‚ู„ ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ุฑุฃูŠุชู‡ุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
10:30
If you assign sex to a specific place in the body,
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ุฅุฐุง ู‚ู…ุช ุจุชุญุฏูŠุฏ ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ูƒุงู† ู…ุนูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ุฌุณู…ุŒ
10:34
it somehow makes us think that we can go into a body,
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ุจุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ู…ุง ูŠุฌุนู„ู†ุง ู†ููƒุฑ ุฃู† ู†ุชู…ูƒู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฐู‡ุงุจ ุจุฏุงุฎู„ ุงู„ุฌุณู…ุŒ
10:37
look at a specific place
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ูˆุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ูƒุงู† ู…ุนูŠู†
10:39
and tell someone we know something more about them
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ูˆู†ุฎุจุฑ ุดุฎุตู‹ุง ู†ุนุฑูู‡ ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุนู†ู‡ู…
10:41
than they know about themselves.
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ู…ู…ุง ูŠุนุฑููˆู†ู‡ ุนู† ุฃู†ูุณู‡ู….
10:44
And that feels terrifying to me.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุฃู…ุฑ ู…ุฑุนุจ ุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ูŠ.
10:48
And we don't genetically test female athletes anymore,
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ู†ุญู† ู„ุง ู†ุฎุชุจุฑ ูˆุฑุงุซูŠุงู‹ ุงู„ุฑูŠุงุถูŠูŠู† ุจุนุฏ ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
10:51
but you can see very similar conversations happening
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุฃู† ุชุฑู‰ ุชุดุงุจู‡ู‹ุง ูƒุจูŠุฑู‹ุง ู„ู…ุญุงุฏุซุงุช ุชุญุฏุซ
10:55
when we talk about testosterone in sports,
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู†ุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ุงู„ุชุณุชูˆุณุชูŠุฑูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุฑูŠุงุถุฉุŒ
10:57
you can also see it in suggestions that we take transgender individuals
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ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุฃูŠุถู‹ุง ุฑุคูŠุชู‡ ููŠ ุงู„ุงู‚ุชุฑุงุญุงุช ุฃู† ู†ุฃุฎุฐ ุงู„ุฃูุฑุงุฏ ุงู„ู…ุชุญูˆู„ูŠู† ุฌู†ุณูŠุงู‹
11:01
and we genetically analyze them and we tell them who they are.
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ูˆู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจุชุญู„ูŠู„ู‡ู… ุฌูŠู†ูŠุงู‹ ูˆู†ู‚ูˆู„ ู„ู‡ู… ู…ู† ู‡ู….
11:06
That is real,
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ู‡ุฐุง ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุŒ
11:07
that is a conversation that has happened recently.
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉ ุญุฏุซุช ู…ุคุฎุฑู‹ุง.
11:11
The last place that I'll share with you
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ุขุฎุฑ ุฃู…ุฑ ุณุฃุดุงุฑูƒู‡ ู…ุนูƒ
11:13
where these chromosomes got complicated for me
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ุญูŠุซ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุฃุตุจุญุช ู…ุนู‚ุฏุฉ ุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ูŠ
11:16
is this one thing that Melissa told me.
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ู‡ูˆ ุดูŠุก ูˆุงุญุฏ ุฃุฎุจุฑุชู†ูŠ ุจู‡ ู…ูŠู„ูŠุณุง.
11:18
(Audio) Wilson: You can't survive without an X chromosome.
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(ุตูˆุช) ูˆูŠู„ุณูˆู†: ู„ุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุงู„ุจู‚ุงุก ุนู„ู‰ ู‚ูŠุฏ ุงู„ุญูŠุงุฉ ุฏูˆู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… X.
11:21
No matter your gonads, no matter your identity,
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ุจุบุถ ุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ุนู† ุงู„ุฃุนุถุงุก ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠุฉ ู„ุฏูŠูƒุŒ ุจุบุถ ุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ุนู† ู‡ูˆูŠุชูƒุŒ
11:23
every single human being has to have an X chromosome,
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ูƒู„ ุฅู†ุณุงู† ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠุญุชูˆูŠ ุนู„ู‰ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XุŒ
11:26
because without one, the rest of your body doesn't develop.
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ุจุฏูˆู†ู‡ุŒ ุจู‚ูŠุฉ ุฌุณู…ูƒ ู„ู† ูŠุชุทูˆุฑ.
11:29
MW: Why do we call this the female chromosome?
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ู…ูˆู„ูŠ ูˆูŠุจุณุชุฑ: ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ู†ุณู…ูŠ ู‡ุฐุง ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ุฃู†ุซู‰ุŸ
11:31
OK, this is something I had never though about,
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ุญุณู†ู‹ุง ุŒ ู‡ุฐุง ุดูŠุก ู„ู… ุฃููƒุฑ ููŠู‡ ุฃุจุฏุงู‹ุŒ
11:33
but literally, every single person in this audience has an X chromosome,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุญุฑููŠุงู‹ุŒ ูƒู„ ุดุฎุต ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฌู…ู‡ูˆุฑ ู„ุฏูŠู‡ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XุŒ
11:37
I'm not lying.
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ุฃู†ุง ู„ุง ุฃูƒุฐุจ.
11:38
Every single person on the planet has an X chromosome,
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ูƒู„ ุดุฎุต ุนู„ู‰ ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ ู„ุฏูŠู‡ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XุŒ
11:40
but no one is going around like, "This is the every-person chromosome."
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ุง ุฃุญุฏ ูŠู‚ูˆู„ุŒ "ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ูƒู„ ุดุฎุต."
11:44
You know?
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ุฃุชุนุฑููˆู†ุŸ
11:45
Like, somehow it's over here, the Y is over there,
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ู…ุซู„ุŒ ุจุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู†ุชู‡ุช ู‡ู†ุงุŒ ุงู†ุชู‡ุช Y ู‡ู†ุงูƒุŒ
11:47
and they must be really different,
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ูˆูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู†ูˆุง ู…ุฎุชู„ููŠู† ุญู‚ู‹ุงุŒ
11:49
and I'm just like, it would be so much better
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ูˆุฃู†ุง ู…ุซู„ุŒ ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ุฃูุถู„ ุจูƒุซูŠุฑ
11:51
if it was the every-person chromosome.
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ูƒู„ ุดุฎุต.
11:53
And not just because I'm like, love you all and I want you all in,
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ูˆู„ูŠุณ ูู‚ุท ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ุฃุญุจูƒู… ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ ูˆุฃุฑูŠุฏูƒู… ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ุฏุงุฎู„.
11:56
but because of what we're overlooking by the fact that we consider it female.
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุจุณุจุจ ู…ุง ู†ุทู„ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ู…ู† ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุฃู†ู†ุง ู†ุนุชุจุฑู‡ุง ุฃู†ุซู‰.
12:02
Because I'm going to tell you one of the craziest things I found out.
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ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ุณุฃุฎุจุฑูƒ ุฃุญุฏ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ุงู„ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุฌู†ูˆู†ู‹ุง ุงู„ุชูŠ ุงูƒุชุดูุชู‡ุง.
12:05
Which is, when you think about the X chromosome,
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ูˆู‡ูŠ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชููƒุฑุนู† ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XุŒ
12:09
of the almost 1,100 genes on the X chromosome,
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ุญูˆุงู„ูŠ 1.100 ุฌูŠู† ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… XุŒ
12:12
how many do you think have to do with sex and reproduction?
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ูƒู… ุชุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุนู„ูŠูƒ ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจู‡ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ูˆุงู„ุชูƒุงุซุฑุŸ
12:15
Like, get a number in your head.
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ููƒุฑ ููŠ ุฑู‚ู….
12:19
Four percent.
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%4
12:21
That means 96 percent of the rest of that chromosome
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ู‡ุฐุง ูŠุนู†ูŠ 96% ู…ุง ุชุจู‚ู‰ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…
12:24
is doing something that has nothing to do with your gonads.
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ูŠูุนู„ ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ู„ุง ูŠู‚ูˆู… ุจู‡ ู…ุน ุงู„ุฃุนุถุงุก ุงู„ุชู†ุงุณู„ูŠุฉ ู„ุฏูŠูƒ.
12:28
And I guess as all of these,
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ูˆุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุกุŒ
12:30
sort of, some of them social stories,
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ู†ูˆุนู‹ุง ู…ุงุŒ ุจุนุถู‡ุง ู‚ุตุต ุงุฌุชู…ุงุนูŠุฉุŒ
12:32
some of them scientific stories, some of these facts,
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ุจุนุถู‡ุง ู‚ุตุต ุนู„ู…ูŠุฉ ูˆุจุนุถู‡ุง ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ุŒ
12:35
started to add up, I just thought, like,
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ุจุฏุฃุช ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุถุงูุฉุŒ ููƒุฑุชุŒ
12:38
why are we calling these the sex chromosomes?
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ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ู†ุณู…ูŠู‡ุง ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู…ุงุช ุงู„ุฌู†ุณุŸ
12:41
Or if we are, like, maybe we all like that name,
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ุฃูˆ ุฅุฐุง ูƒู†ุง ุฑุจู…ุง ู†ุญุจ ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุงุณู…ุŒ
12:44
should we just allow ourselves to think about them
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ุณู…ุญ ู„ุฃู†ูุณู†ุง ูู‚ุท ู„ู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ุจู‡ุง
12:48
a little more broadly?
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ุนู„ู‰ ู†ุทุงู‚ ุฃูˆุณุนุŸ
12:49
Because if we do,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ุฅุฐุง ูุนู„ู†ุง ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
12:50
like, what insights would we gain, as people, as scientists?
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ู…ุง ุงู„ุฃููƒุงุฑ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุณู†ูƒุชุณุจู‡ุง ูƒุจุดุฑ ุฃูˆ ูƒุนู„ู…ุงุกุŸ
12:55
And we're at this point where we're thinking about, like,
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ูˆู†ุญู† ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฑุญู„ุฉ ุญูŠุซ ู†ููƒุฑุŒ
12:58
how do we want to teach science,
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ูƒูŠู ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุชุนู„ูŠู… ุงู„ุนู„ูˆู…ุŒ
12:59
what do we want to fund,
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ู…ุง ุงู„ุฐูŠ ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุชู…ูˆูŠู„ู‡ุŒ
13:01
like, who do we want to be as a society, you know?
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ู…ู† ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ู†ูƒูˆู† ูƒู…ุฌุชู…ุนุŸ
13:03
And I just wondered if it wasn't a moment to rethink the biology of X and Y,
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ูˆุชุณุงุกู„ุช ู„ู„ุชูˆ ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ุงู„ู„ุญุธุฉ ู„ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ููŠ ุจูŠูˆู„ูˆุฌูŠุง X ูˆYุŒ
13:08
and at the very least,
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ูˆุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃู‚ู„ุŒ
13:11
to remember, like, the footnotes of history,
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ู„ู†ุชุฐูƒุฑ ู‡ูˆุงู…ุด ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุงุถูŠุŒ
13:13
which is that the dude who came up with the phrase "sex chromosome,"
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ูˆู‡ูˆ ุฃู† ุงู„ุฑุฌู„ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฌุงุก ู…ุน ุนุจุงุฑุฉ "ูƒุฑูˆู…ูˆุณูˆู… ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ"ุŒ
13:18
actually was like, "Hey, everyone, just remember, this is just,"
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ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠ ู…ุซู„ุŒ "ู…ุฑุญุจุงู‹ ุฌู…ูŠุนุงู‹ุŒ ุชุฐูƒุฑูˆุงุŒ ู‡ุฐุง ูู‚ุทุŒ"
13:22
and I quote, "a form of shorthand."
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ูˆุงู‚ุชุจุณุŒ "ุดูƒู„ุงู‹ ู…ู† ุฃุดูƒุงู„ ุงู„ุงุฎุชุตุงุฑ."
13:25
We should not take it literally.
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ู„ุง ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃุฎุฐู‡ ุญุฑููŠุงู‹.
13:28
Thank you.
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ุดูƒุฑุงู‹ ู„ูƒู….
13:29
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
ุญูˆู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน

ุณูŠู‚ุฏู… ู„ูƒ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน ู…ู‚ุงุทุน ููŠุฏูŠูˆ YouTube ุงู„ู…ููŠุฏุฉ ู„ุชุนู„ู… ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ. ุณุชุฑู‰ ุฏุฑูˆุณ ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุชู… ุชุฏุฑูŠุณู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู…ุฏุฑุณูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ู…ู† ุฌู…ูŠุน ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…. ุงู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุนุฑูˆุถุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ูƒู„ ุตูุญุฉ ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู…ู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ. ูŠุชู… ุชู…ุฑูŠุฑ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุงุช ุจุงู„ุชุฒุงู…ู† ู…ุน ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ. ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุฃูŠ ุชุนู„ูŠู‚ุงุช ุฃูˆ ุทู„ุจุงุช ุŒ ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ุจู†ุง ุจุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ู‡ุฐุง.

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