The weird history of the "sex chromosomes" | Molly Webster

209,423 views ใƒป 2020-04-21

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ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

00:00
Transcriber: Ivana Korom Reviewer: Krystian Aparta
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ืชืจื’ื•ื: Yael Ring ืขืจื™ื›ื”: Sigal Tifferet
00:12
OK.
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ืื•ืงื™ื™.
00:14
So we are going to start in 1891,
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ืื– ื ืชื—ื™ืœ ื‘ืฉื ืช 1891,
00:17
when a German scientist was looking through a microscope
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ื›ืฉืžื“ืขืŸ ื’ืจืžื ื™ ื”ืชื‘ื•ื ืŸ ื“ืจืš ืžื™ืงืจื•ืกืงื•ืค
00:20
at insect cells.
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ื‘ืชืื™ ื—ืจืงื™ื.
00:22
And he saw something kind of funny.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืจืื” ืžืฉื”ื• ื“ื™ ืžืฆื—ื™ืง.
00:24
At the center of the cells, there was this dark stuff.
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ื‘ืžืจื›ื– ื”ืชืื™ื ื”ื™ื” ืžื™ืŸ ื—ื•ืžืจ ืฉื—ื•ืจ.
00:28
No one had ever seen it before.
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ืฉืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืœื ืจืื” ืœืคื ื™ ื›ืŸ.
00:29
And he noticed that as the cells would multiply and divide,
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืฉื ืœื‘ ืฉื›ื›ืœ ืฉื”ืชืื™ื ื”ืชืจื‘ื• ื•ื”ืชื—ืœืงื•,
00:33
it would go into some of the new cells
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ื”ื•ื ื ื›ื ืก ืœื—ืœืง ืžื”ืชืื™ื ื”ื—ื“ืฉื™ื
00:36
but not the others.
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ืื‘ืœ ืœื ืœืื—ืจื™ื.
00:37
He didn't know what it was, so he gave it a really great name.
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ื”ื•ื ืœื ื™ื“ืข ืžื” ื–ื”, ืื– ื”ื•ื ื ืชืŸ ืœื–ื” ืฉื ืžืžืฉ ื˜ื•ื‘.
00:40
He called it the "X element."
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ื”ื•ื ืงืจื ืœื–ื” "ืืœืžื ื˜ X".
00:42
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
00:43
And he was like, "We'll just fill in that X later."
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื—ืฉื‘ ืœืขืฆืžื•, "ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื ื—ืœื™ืฃ ืืช ื”-X ืžืื•ื—ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ".
00:46
And then, fast-forward 10 years later,
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ื•ืื– - ื ืชืงื“ื ืขืฉืจ ืฉื ื™ื ืงื“ื™ืžื”,
00:50
and there is an American scientist,
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ืžื“ืขื ื™ืช ืืžืจื™ืงืื™ืช
00:52
and she is looking through her microscope,
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ื”ืชื‘ื•ื ื ื” ื‘ืžื™ืงืจื•ืกืงื•ืค ืฉืœื”
00:54
also at insect cells.
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ื’ื ื‘ืชืื™ ื—ืจืงื™ื.
00:56
And she sees something funny.
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ื•ื”ื™ื ืจืืชื” ืžืฉื”ื• ืžืฆื—ื™ืง.
00:58
There's more of this dark stuff.
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ื™ืฉ ืขื•ื“ ืžื”ื—ื•ืžืจ ื”ืฉื—ื•ืจ ื”ื–ื”.
01:00
And it's kind of tiny,
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ื•ื–ื” ื“ื™ ืงื˜ืŸ,
01:01
it's hanging out near the X element.
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ื–ื” ื ืžืฆื ืœื™ื“ ืืœืžื ื˜ X.
01:04
And eventually, someone was like,
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ื•ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ, ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ื—ืฉื‘,
01:06
"Well, if that one thing's called X,
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"ืื ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื–ื” ื ืงืจื X,
01:07
should we call this other thing Y?"
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ืื•ืœื™ ื ืงืจื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื—ื“ืฉ ื”ื–ื” Y?"
01:10
And like that, (Snaps fingers)
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ื•ื›ื›ื”,
01:11
the sex chromosomes had been discovered.
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ื”ืชื’ืœื• ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ.
01:14
So chromosomes,
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ืื– ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื.
01:15
you probably all know what they are,
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ืืชื ื‘ื˜ื— ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžื” ื”ื,
01:17
but I will tell you anyways.
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช.
01:19
They're made up of DNA --
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ื”ื ืžื•ืจื›ื‘ื™ื ืžื“ื "ื --
01:20
everything has it, it's the blueprint of life,
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ืœื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ื™ืฉ ืื•ืชื, ื–ืืช ืชื‘ื ื™ืช ื”ื—ื™ื™ื,
01:23
we've got rats, we've got trees,
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ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื—ื•ืœื“ื•ืช, ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืขืฆื™ื,
01:24
we've got insects, we've got humans.
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ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื—ืจืงื™ื ื•ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื‘ื ื™ ืื“ื.
01:27
And in the case of human chromosomes,
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ื•ื‘ืžืงืจื” ืฉืœ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ืื ื•ืฉื™ื™ื,
01:30
geneticist Melissa Wilson broke it down for me like this.
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ื”ื’ื ื˜ื™ืงืื™ืช ืžืœื™ืกื” ื•ื•ื™ืœืกื•ืŸ ื”ืกื‘ื™ืจื” ืœื™ ืืช ื–ื” ื›ื›ื”.
01:34
(Audio) Melissa Wilson: Typically, you'll get one copy of every chromosome
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ื•ื•ื™ืœืกื•ืŸ: ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ื›ืœืœื™, ืœื›ืœ ืื“ื ื™ืฉ ื”ืขืชืง ืฉืœ ื›ืœ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื
01:37
from your genetic mom
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ืžื”ืื™ืžื ื”ื’ื ื˜ื™ืช ืฉืœื•
01:38
and one copy of every chromosome from your genetic dad,
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ื•ืขื•ื“ ื”ืขืชืง ืฉืœ ื›ืœ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ืžื”ืื‘ื ื”ื’ื ื˜ื™.
01:41
and we have 22 of these
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ื•ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• 22 ื–ื•ื’ื•ืช ื›ืืœื”
01:43
that you get one copy from mom and one copy from dad.
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ืฉื—ืฆื™ ืžื”ื ืžื’ื™ืขื™ื ืžืืžื ื•ื”ื—ืฆื™ ื”ืฉื ื™ ืžืื‘ื.
01:46
And then there's a 23rd pair, X and Y.
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ื•ืื– ื™ืฉ ืืช ื”ื–ื•ื’ ื”-23, X ื•-Y.
01:50
Molly Webster: So while all the other chromosomes are numbered,
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ืื– ื‘ื–ืžืŸ ืฉื›ืœ ืฉืืจ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ืžืžื•ืกืคืจื™ื,
01:53
one through 22,
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ืžืื—ื“ ืขื“ 22.
01:55
we do not call X and Y 23.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืงื•ืจืื™ื ืœ-X ื•-Y ืžืกืคืจ 23.
01:58
I like to think that they are waiting for, like, a LeBron James to come along.
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืฉื”ื ื—ื™ื›ื• ืœืœื‘ืจื•ืŸ ื’'ื™ื™ืžืก.
02:02
But in this instance, they were like,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืžืงืจื” ื”ื–ื” ื”ื ื—ืฉื‘ื•,
02:04
"We're just going to keep the letters,
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"ืื ื—ื ื• ื ืฉืžื•ืจ ืขืœ ื”ืื•ืชื™ื•ืช,
02:06
and then we'll give them a title."
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ื•ืื– ื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื”ื ืฉื".
02:08
They called them the sex chromosomes.
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ื”ื ืงืจืื• ืœื”ื ื›ืจืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ.
02:10
Now I would wager that in the United States,
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ืื ื™ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืชืขืจื‘ืช ืฉื‘ืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ื‘ืจื™ืช,
02:13
these are the most well-known chromosomes
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ืืœื” ื”ื ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ื”ื›ื™ ืžืคื•ืจืกืžื™ื
02:16
for one simple fact:
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ืžืกื™ื‘ื” ืื—ืช ืคืฉื•ื˜ื”:
02:17
that we say X equals "girl," and Y equals "boy" --
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ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืื•ืžืจื™ื "X ืฉื•ื•ื” ื‘ืช", ื•-"Y ืฉื•ื•ื” ื‘ืŸ" --
02:20
that they are responsible for sex.
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ืฉื”ื ืื—ืจืื™ื ืœืงื‘ื™ืขืช ื”ืžื™ืŸ.
02:23
And -- and I had to learn this --
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ื•ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืฆืจื™ื›ื” ืœืœืžื•ื“ ืืช ื–ื” --
02:25
but when I'm talking about "sex" here,
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ืื‘ืœ ื›ืฉืื ื™ ืžื“ื‘ืจืช ืขืœ ืžื™ืŸ, ื›ืืŸ,
02:27
I'm talking about the way biology gives us gonads,
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ืื ื™ ืžื“ื‘ืจืช ืขืœ ื”ืื•ืคืŸ ืฉื‘ื• ื”ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ื ื•ืชื ืช ืœื ื• ื‘ืœื•ื˜ื•ืช ืžื™ืŸ,
02:30
which are our ovaries and our testes --
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ืฉื”ื ื”ืฉื—ืœื•ืช ืฉืœื ื• ื•ื”ืืฉื›ื™ื ืฉืœื ื• --
02:32
I'm not talking about gender, which is how we identify.
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ืื ื™ ืœื ืžื“ื‘ืจืช ืขืœ ืžื’ื“ืจ, ืฉื”ื•ื ื”ืื•ืคืŸ ืฉื‘ื• ืื ื—ื ื• ืžื–ื“ื”ื™ื.
02:35
And so, as a reporter at the show --
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ื›ืš ืฉื›ื›ืชื‘ืช ื‘ืชื›ื ื™ืช,
02:38
"Radiolab," the audio documentary program I work for --
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"ืจื“ื™ื•ืœืื‘", ืชื›ื ื™ืช ื”ืจื“ื™ื• ื”ื“ื•ืงื•ืžื ื˜ืจื™ืช ืฉืื ื™ ืขื•ื‘ื“ืช ื‘ื” --
02:43
I was like, what's up with these sex chromosomes?
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ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™, ืžื” ืงื•ืจื” ืขื ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ ื”ืืœื”?
02:46
You know, that's kind of my job, I think things are weird,
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ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื, ื–ืืช ื‘ืขืฆื ื”ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืฉืœื™, ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉืžืฉื”ื• ืžื•ื–ืจ,
02:49
and then I get to call people about them
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ื•ืื– ืื ื™ ืžืชืงืฉืจืช ืœืื ืฉื™ื,
02:51
and ask questions, and then hopefully they answer.
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ื•ืฉื•ืืœืช ืฉืืœื•ืช ืœื’ื‘ื™ื•, ื•ืื– ืื ื™ ืžืงื•ื•ื” ืฉื”ื ื™ืขื ื• ืขืœื™ื”ืŸ.
02:53
And in this case, a lot of people answered.
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ื•ื‘ืžืงืจื” ื”ื–ื”, ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืขื ื•.
02:55
And in the two years I had of reporting on X and Y,
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ื•ื‘ืฉื ืชื™ื™ื ืฉื›ืชื‘ืชื™ ืขืœ X ื•-Y,
02:59
as part of "Gonads," the series on sex and gender
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ื›ื—ืœืง ืž"ื‘ืœื•ื˜ื•ืช ืžื™ืŸ", ื”ืกื“ืจื” ืขืœ ืžื™ืŸ ื•ืžื’ื“ืจ
03:01
I ended up doing for "Radiolab,"
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ืฉืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื‘"ืจื“ื™ื•ืœืื‘",
03:03
I found out that these two chromosomes live in a world that is unexpected,
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ืžืฆืืชื™ ืฉืฉื ื™ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ื”ืืœื” ื—ื™ื™ื ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื‘ืœืชื™ ืฆืคื•ื™
03:09
a little unsettling;
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ืงืฆืช ืžืขื•ืจืขืจ;
03:10
where things that I thought were facts
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ื‘ื• ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืฉื”ื ืขื•ื‘ื“ื•ืช
03:12
were, like, twisted in ways I hadn't seen before.
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ืขื•ื•ืชื• ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ืฉืœื ืจืื™ืชื™ ืœืคื ื™ ื›ืŸ.
03:15
And the world goes so far beyond the boundaries of sex,
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ื•ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ื–ื” ืžื›ื™ืœ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืžื™ืŸ,
03:20
I was like,
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ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™,
03:21
"Maybe we should all talk about this."
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"ืื•ืœื™ ื›ื“ืื™ ืฉื ื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื–ื”".
03:23
So, you're you all,
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ืื– ื”ื ื” ืืชื ื›ืืŸ,
03:25
we're all going to talk about it.
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื ื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื–ื”.
03:28
And for me,
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ื•ืขื‘ื•ืจื™,
03:30
the true story of X and Y starts with their name.
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ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ืืžื™ืชื™ ืžืื—ื•ืจื™ X ื•-Y ืžืชื—ื™ืœ ื‘ืฉื ืฉืœื”ื.
03:34
So within years of being discovered,
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ื‘ืชื•ืš ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื ืžืจื’ืข ืฉื”ืชื’ืœื•,
03:37
these two little chromosomes had acquired more than 10 different names.
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ืฉื ื™ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ื”ืงื˜ื ื™ื ื”ืืœื” ืงื™ื‘ืœื• ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืขืฉืจื” ืฉืžื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื™ื.
03:41
There was diplosome and heterochromosome
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ื”ื™ื” ื“ื™ืคืœื•ื–ื•ื, ื”ื˜ืจื•-ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื
03:44
and idiochromosome,
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ื•ืื™ื“ื™ืื•-ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื,
03:46
and most of the names had to do with their structure, their shape,
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ื•ืจื•ื‘ ื”ืฉืžื•ืช ื”ื™ื• ืงืฉื•ืจื™ื ืœืžื‘ื ื” ืฉืœื”ื, ืœืฆื•ืจื” ืฉืœื”ื,
03:49
their size.
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ื•ืœื’ื•ื“ืœ ืฉืœื”ื.
03:51
And then there was "sex chromosome,"
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ื•ืื– ื”ื’ื™ืข "ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ",
03:53
which they had been given because of the fact
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ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื”ื ื‘ืฉืœ ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื”
03:55
that we had started seeing that the X would go with the females,
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ืฉื”ืชื—ืœื ื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื”-X ื”ื•ืคื™ืข ืืฆืœ ื ืงื‘ื•ืช,
03:58
and the Y would often go with the males.
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ื•ื”-Y ืœืจื•ื‘ ื”ื•ืคื™ืข ื‘ื–ื›ืจื™ื.
04:01
But scientists were like,
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืžื“ืขื ื™ื ื”ืชืœื‘ื˜ื•,
04:03
"Do we really want to call them sex chromosomes?"
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"ื”ืื ืื ื—ื ื• ื‘ืืžืช ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืงืจื•ื ืœื”ื ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ืžื™ืŸ?"
04:06
And science historian Sarah Richardson is the one who told me this story.
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ื•ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื•ื ื™ืช ื”ืžื“ืข ืฉืจื” ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ืกื•ืŸ ื”ื™ื ื–ืืช ืฉืกื™ืคืจื” ืœื™ ืืช ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ื–ื”.
04:11
(Audio) Sarah Richardson: For three decades, scientists were like,
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ืฉืจื” ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ืกื•ืŸ: ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉืœื•ืฉื” ืขืฉื•ืจื™ื, ื”ืžื“ืขื ื™ื ื˜ืขื ื•,
04:14
"You should not call them the sex chromosomes.
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"ืืกื•ืจ ืœืงืจื•ื ืœื”ื ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ.
04:17
The X and Y have many functions,
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ืœ-X ื•ืœ-Y ื™ืฉ ืคื•ื ืงืฆื™ื•ืช ืจื‘ื•ืช,
04:19
and you wouldn't assume that a single chromosome
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ื•ืœื ื”ื™ื™ืชื ืžื ื™ื—ื™ื ืฉื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ืื—ื“ ื‘ืœื‘ื“
04:23
controls a single trait.
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ืฉื•ืœื˜ ื‘ืชื›ื•ื ื” ืื—ืช.
04:25
Imagine calling one chromosome the 'urogenital chromosome,'
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ื“ืžื™ื™ื ื• ืฉืชืงืจืื• ืœื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ืื—ื“ ื‘ืฉื "ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”ืื•ืจื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”",
04:29
or the 'liver chromosome.'"
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ืื• "ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”ื›ื‘ื“".
04:33
MW: Scientists, if you dig into the history --
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ืžื“ืขื ื™ื, ืื ืชื—ืงืจื• ืืช ื”ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” --
04:35
it's really cool, you should --
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ื–ื” ื“ื™ ืžื’ื ื™ื‘, ืชืขืฉื• ืืช ื–ื” --
04:37
were hesitant to, like, commit to such a specific name
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ื”ื™ืกืกื• ืื ืœื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ ืœืฉื ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืกืคืฆื™ืคื™
04:42
and such a powerfully connotated name.
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ื•ืฉื ื‘ืขืœ ืงื•ื ื•ื˜ืฆื™ื” ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ื—ื–ืงื”.
04:44
There was a fear that it would actually be really limiting --
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ื”ื™ื” ื”ื—ืฉืฉ ืฉื–ื” ืžืžืฉ ื™ื’ื‘ื™ืœ --
04:47
maybe to science, maybe to society --
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ืื•ืœื™ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืžื“ืข ืื• ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” --
04:49
but the fear was in the room.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื—ืฉืฉ ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื—ื“ืจ.
04:52
And you can see they ended up getting "sex chromosome" --
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ื•ืืคืฉืจ ืœืจืื•ืช -- ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืขืœ "ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ืžื™ืŸ" --
04:56
it's like a pretty juicy title,
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ื–ื” ืฉื ื“ื™ ืขืกื™ืกื™,
04:58
it popularized genetics, you know?
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ื–ื” ื”ืคืš ืืช ื”ื’ื ื˜ื™ืงื” ืœืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืคื•ืคื•ืœืจื™, ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื?
05:01
But in the 100-year history since we settled on that name,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืžืื” ืฉื ื•ืช ื”ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” ืžืื– ืฉื”ื—ืœื˜ื ื• ืขืœ ื”ืฉื ื”ื–ื”,
05:07
you can see it starts to get a little complicated.
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื–ื” ื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืœื”ืกืชื‘ืš.
05:11
So around 1960 --
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ืื– ืกื‘ื™ื‘ 1960 --
05:13
this is going to be our first stop
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ื–ืืช ืชื”ื™ื” ื”ืชื—ื ื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืฉืœื ื•
05:15
on the complicated world of the sex chromosomes --
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ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื”ืžื•ืจื›ื‘ ืฉืœ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”ืžื™ืŸ --
05:17
so around 1960,
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ืื– ืกื‘ื™ื‘ 1960,
05:19
we had discovered that you could be XYY.
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ื’ื™ืœื™ื ื• ืฉืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช XYY.
05:22
They discovered an XYY man.
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ื”ื ื’ื™ืœื• ื’ื‘ืจ ื‘ืขืœ XYY.
05:25
And to digress a little here,
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ื•ืื ื ืกื˜ื” ืงืฆืช ื›ืืŸ,
05:27
it turns out that the model of "X equals girl and Y equals boy"
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ืžืกืชื‘ืจ ืฉื”ืžื•ื“ืœ ืฉืœ "X ืฉื•ื•ื” ื‘ืช ื•-Y ืฉื•ื•ื” ื‘ืŸ"
05:32
is really simplistic.
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ื”ื•ื ื“ื™ ืคืฉื˜ื ื™.
05:34
You can actually be a whole bunch of different combinations of X and Y,
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœืžืขืฉื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืœื ืฉื™ืœื•ื‘ื™ื ืฉืœ X ื•-Y,
05:38
giving you, like, different types of biological sex.
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ืฉื ื•ืชื ื™ื ืœื ื• ืกื•ื’ื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื ืฉืœ ืžื™ืŸ ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™.
05:42
You could be two Xs and two Ys together.
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื ื™ X ื•ืฉื ื™ Y ื‘ื™ื—ื“.
05:44
You could be four Xs, you could be five Xs,
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืืจื‘ืขื” X, ื—ืžื™ืฉื” X.
05:46
you could be XO.
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช XO.
05:47
And so I thought that was pretty crazy,
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ื•ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืฉื–ื” ื“ื™ ืžื˜ื•ืจืฃ,
05:50
because I was like,
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ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™
05:51
"Wow, this really upends a model of biological sex
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"ื•ืื•ื•, ื–ื” ื“ื™ ืžืคืจื™ืš ืืช ื”ืžื•ื“ืœ ืฉืœ ืžื™ืŸ ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™
05:54
I think most of us in this room have been taught."
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ืฉืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉืจื•ื‘ื ื• ืœืžื“ื ื• ืขืœื™ื•".
05:56
So a few years after they realized that you can be XYY,
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ืื– ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื”ื‘ื™ื ื• ืฉืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช XYY,
06:00
researchers go to a prison in Scotland,
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ื”ื—ื•ืงืจื™ื ื”ื’ื™ืขื• ืœื‘ื™ืช ื›ืœื ื‘ืกืงื•ื˜ืœื ื“,
06:02
and they do genetic analysis of a bunch of the male prisoners.
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ื•ื”ื ืขืจื›ื• ื ื™ืชื•ื— ื’ื ื˜ื™ ืฉืœ ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืืกื™ืจื™ื.
06:06
And they find a number of people who are XYY.
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ื•ื”ื ืžืฆืื• ื›ืžื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื XYY.
06:10
And according to Sarah:
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ืœืคื™ ืฉืจื”:
06:13
(Audio) SR: They just rushed to publish a theory
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ืกื•ืŸ: "ื”ื ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืจืฆื• ืœืคืจืกื ืชื™ืื•ืจื™ื”
06:15
suggesting that this extra Y chromosome
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ืฉื˜ื•ืขื ืช ืฉื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”-Y ื”ื ื•ืกืฃ
06:19
could explain criminality in some men.
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ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ื ื˜ื™ื” ืœืคืฉื™ืขื” ืืฆืœ ื—ืœืง ืžื”ื’ื‘ืจื™ื".
06:23
MW: Yeah.
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ื›ืŸ.
06:24
So the logic goes like this:
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ืื– ื”ื”ื™ื’ื™ื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื›ื–ื”:
06:26
By this point, we're thinking Y is male.
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ื‘ื ืงื•ื“ื” ื–ื• ื”ื”ื ื—ื” ื”ื™ื Y ื”ื•ื ื–ื›ืจ.
06:29
We think male is aggressive,
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ื–ื›ืจ ื”ื•ื ืื’ืจืกื™ื‘ื™,
06:31
so Y must be aggression.
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ืื– Y ื—ื™ื™ื‘ ืœื™ื™ืฆื’ ืื’ืจืกื™ื‘ื™ื•ืช.
06:33
If you've got an extra Y, you must be crazy.
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ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื Y ืขื•ื“ืฃ, ื–ื” ืื•ืžืจ ืฉืืชื” ืžืฉื•ื’ืข.
06:37
And like, we went nuts with this theory.
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ื•ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ืชื—ืจืคืŸ ืžื”ืชื™ืื•ืจื™ื” ื”ื–ื•.
06:39
We called it the supermale,
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ืงืจืื ื• ืœื” ื”ืกื•ืคืจ-ื–ื›ืจ,
06:41
they started scanning more prisoners,
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ื”ื ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœืกืจื•ืง ืขื•ื“ ืืกื™ืจื™ื,
06:43
serial killers, boys.
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ืจื•ืฆื—ื™ื ืกื“ืจืชื™ื™ื, ื‘ื ื™ื.
06:47
And in all seriousness,
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ื•ื‘ืžืœื•ื ื”ืจืฆื™ื ื•ืช,
06:48
there was actually a suggestion that we consider aborting XYY fetuses.
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ืขืœืชื” ื”ืฆืขื” ืœื”ืคื™ืœ ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ื™ื–ื•ื ืขื•ื‘ืจื™ื ื‘ืขืœื™ XYY.
06:55
So in 1980,
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ื‘-1980,
06:57
this theory pretty much toppled, for a number of reasons.
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ื”ืชื™ืื•ืจื™ื” ื”ื–ื• ื”ืชืคืจืงื” ืžืžืกืคืจ ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช.
07:00
One,
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ืื—ื“,
07:02
there had been this really large study
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ื ืขืจืš ืžื—ืงืจ ืžืžืฉ ื’ื“ื•ืœ
07:04
that basically showed there was no connection
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ืฉื‘ืขืฆื ื”ืจืื” ืฉืื™ืŸ ืงืฉืจ
07:06
between Y and violence,
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ื‘ื™ืŸ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื Y ื•ืืœื™ืžื•ืช.
07:08
I think we all saw that coming.
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ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื• ืฆืคื™ื ื• ืืช ื–ื”.
07:10
And then, there was one other thing.
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ื•ืื– ื”ื™ื” ืขื•ื“ ื“ื‘ืจ.
07:13
(Audio) SR: Going back and looking at those original findings
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ืกื•ืŸ: ืื ื ื‘ื—ืŸ ืžื—ื“ืฉ ืืช ื”ืžืžืฆืื™ื ื”ืžืงื•ืจื™ื™ื
07:16
in that high-security psychiatric institution,
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ื‘ืื•ืชื• ืžืชืงืŸ ื›ืœื™ืื” ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™,
07:18
they had also found a high number of individuals
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ื”ื ื’ื ืžืฆืื• ืžืกืคืจ ื’ื“ื•ืœ ืฉืœ ื ื‘ื“ืงื™ื
07:23
with an extra X chromosome.
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ื‘ืขืœื™ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X ื ื•ืกืฃ.
07:25
So these are XXY, as opposed to XYY.
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ืื– ืืœื” ื”ื XXY, ื‘ืžืงื•ื XYY.
07:29
(Audio) MW: Really?
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ื•ื•ื‘ืกื˜ืจ: ื‘ืืžืช?
07:30
(Audio) SR: Yeah. Now, they never claimed
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ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ืกื•ืŸ: ื›ืŸ. ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื”ื ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ื˜ืขื ื•
07:32
that the individuals with an extra X chromosome
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ืฉื”ื ื‘ื“ืงื™ื ื‘ืขืœื™ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X ืขื•ื“ืฃ
07:34
were superfemales.
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ื”ื ืกื•ืคืจ-ื ืงื‘ื™ื™ื.
07:36
They never investigated whether they had higher rates of violence.
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ื”ื ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ื‘ื“ืงื• ืื ืœื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืจืžื•ืช ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื•ืช ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœ ืืœื™ืžื•ืช.
07:41
MW: Seems like kind of an oversight.
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ื•ื•ื‘ืกื˜ืจ: ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ื›ืžื• ืžื—ื“ืœ.
07:43
I don't know.
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ืื ื™ ืœื ื™ื•ื“ืขืช.
07:44
But I think it's interesting,
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉื–ื” ืžืขื ื™ื™ืŸ,
07:46
because what you see is if you start looking at these chromosomes
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ื›ื™ ืžื” ืฉืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ื”ื•ื ืฉืื ืžืชื—ื™ืœื™ื ืœื”ืชื‘ื•ื ืŸ ื‘ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ื”ืืœื”
07:51
through the lens of sex,
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ื“ืจืš ื”ืขื“ืฉื” ืฉืœ ื”ืžื™ืŸ,
07:52
what naturally falls in place behind
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ืžื” ืฉืงื•ืจื” ืื– ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ื˜ื‘ืขื™ ื”ื•ื
07:54
is we look at them through the lens of gender,
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ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืกืชื›ืœื™ื ืขืœื™ื”ื ื“ืจืš ื”ืขื“ืฉื” ืฉืœ ืžื’ื“ืจ
07:57
and the traits that we associate with gender.
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ื•ื”ืชื›ื•ื ื•ืช ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืงืฉืจื™ื ืขื ืžื’ื“ืจ.
07:59
So men were violent,
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ืื– ื’ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ื™ื• ืืœื™ืžื™ื,
08:00
and Y explained why they were in prison.
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ื•-Y ื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืœืžื” ื”ื ื‘ื›ืœื.
08:03
The X did not do that,
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ื”-X ืœื ืขืฉื” ื–ืืช,
08:04
because like, you know, what's X?
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ื›ื™ ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื, ืžื” ื–ื” ื‘ื›ืœืœ X?
08:06
We don't associate it with violence.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืžืงืฉืจื™ื ืื•ืชื• ืขื ืืœื™ืžื•ืช.
08:08
And while we don't believe in supermales today --
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ื•ื‘ืขื•ื“ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืžืืžื™ื ื™ื ื‘ืกื•ืคืจ-ื–ื›ืจื™ื ื›ื™ื•ื -
08:12
God, I hope we don't --
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ืื ื™ ืžืžืฉ ืžืงื•ื•ื” ืฉืœื• --
08:13
we don't believe in supermales today,
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืžืืžื™ื ื™ื ื‘ืกื•ืคืจ-ื–ื›ืจื™ื ื”ื™ื•ื,
08:15
there is a very similar conversation that's still happening
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ื™ืฉื ื” ืฉื™ื—ื” ืžืื•ื“ ื“ื•ืžื” ืฉืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืžืชืจื—ืฉืช ื›ื™ื•ื
08:18
around inherent violence in boys and biology.
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ืกื‘ื™ื‘ ืืœื™ืžื•ืช ืžื•ืจืฉืช ื‘ื‘ื ื™ื ื•ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื”.
08:24
So my next stop on the weird world of X and Y,
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ืื– ื”ืชื—ื ื” ื”ื‘ืื” ืฉืœื™ ื‘ืžืกืข ื”ืžื•ื–ืจ ืฉืœ X ื•-Y,
08:27
or things feeling a little topsy-turvy, is 1985.
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ื•ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืงืฆืช ื”ืคื•ื›ื™ื, ื”ื™ื 1985.
08:31
The World University Games were set to happen in Japan,
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ืžืฉื—ืงื™ ื”ืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ื” ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ื™ื ื”ื™ื• ืืžื•ืจื™ื ืœื”ืชืงื™ื™ื ื‘ื™ืคืŸ,
08:35
and the Spanish hurdler Marรญa Josรฉ Martรญnez-Patiรฑo was scheduled to run.
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ื•ืืฆื ื™ืช ื”ืžืฉื•ื›ื•ืช ื”ืกืคืจื“ื™ืช, ืžืจื™ื” ื—ื•ื–ื” ืžืจื˜ื™ื ื–-ืคื˜ื™ื ื• ื”ื™ืชื” ืืžื•ืจื” ืœื”ืชื—ืจื•ืช.
08:41
She was like a hot shot, a rising superstar.
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ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื—ื ื”ื‘ื, ื›ื•ื›ื‘ ืขื•ืœื” ื‘ืฉืžื™ ื”ืกืคื•ืจื˜.
08:45
And the night before her race, they had her DNA scanned.
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ื•ื‘ืœื™ืœื” ืœืคื ื™ ื”ืžื™ืจื•ืฅ ืฉืœื”, ื”ื ืกืจืงื• ืืช ื”ื“ื "ื ืฉืœื”.
08:49
Now at the time, this was a thing that they were doing,
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื–ืžืŸ ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื ื•ื”ื’ ืžืงื•ื‘ืœ,
08:52
because they were like,
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ื›ื™ ื”ื ื—ืฉื‘ื• -
08:53
"OK, we don't want men covertly racing as women,
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"ืื•ืงื™ื™, ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืฉื’ื‘ืจื™ื ื™ืชื—ืจื• ื‘ืžืกื•ื•ื” ืฉืœ ื ืฉื™ื",
08:57
so we're going to scan the women
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ืื– ื ืกืจื•ืง ืืช ื”ื ืฉื™ื
08:59
and make sure all their Xs line up."
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ื•ื ื•ื•ื“ื ืฉื›ืœ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ื”-X ืฉืœื”ืŸ ืžืชืื™ืžื™ื".
09:03
And so I heard this story from Ruth Padawer
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ื•ื›ืš ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืืช ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ื–ื” ืžืจื•ืช' ืคื“ืื•ื•ืจ
09:06
who was a New York Times Magazine reporter
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ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ื›ืชื‘ืช ืžื˜ืขื ื”ื ื™ื• ื™ื•ืจืง ืžื’ื–ื™ืŸ
09:08
and she reported on Marรญa.
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ื•ื”ื™ื ื›ืชื‘ื” ืขืœ ืžืจื™ื”.
09:12
(Audio) Ruth Padawer: So they tell her the chromosome test results were abnormal.
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ืคื“ื•ื•ืืจ: ืื– ื”ื ืื•ืžืจื™ื ืœื” ืฉืชื•ืฆืื•ืช ืกืจื™ืงืช ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ืฉืœื” ื”ื™ื• ืื‘ื ื•ืจืžืœื™ื•ืช.
09:15
Although on the outside, she was fully female,
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ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉืžื‘ื—ื•ืฅ ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ืื™ืฉื” ืœื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ,
09:18
she had XY chromosomes and these internal testes.
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ื”ื™ื• ืœื” ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ XY ื•ืืฉื›ื™ื ืคื ื™ืžื™ื™ื.
09:22
MW: They were like,
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ื•ื•ื‘ืกื˜ืจ: ื•ื”ื ืืžืจื• -
09:23
"We hate to break it to you, Marรญa, but you're actually a dude.
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"ืœื ื ืขื™ื ืœื ื• ืœื•ืžืจ ืœืš ืžืจื™ื”, ืื‘ืœ ืืช ื‘ืขืฆื ื’ื‘ืจ.
09:26
You can't race with the ladies."
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ืืช ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ืชื—ืจื•ืช ืขื ื”ื ืฉื™ื".
09:30
(Audio) RP: And so she's thrown off the national team,
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ืคื“ื•ื•ืืจ: ื•ื›ืš ื”ืขื™ืคื• ืื•ืชื” ืžื”ืžืฉืœื—ืช ื”ืœืื•ืžื™ืช,
09:33
she's expelled from the athletics residence,
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ื”ื™ื ืกื•ืœืงื” ืžืžืขื•ื ื•ืช ื”ืกืคื•ืจื˜ืื™ื,
09:36
she's denied her scholarship,
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ื•ื”ื™ื ืื™ื‘ื“ื” ืืช ื”ืžืœื’ื” ืฉืœื”,
09:37
a bunch of her friends dump her,
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ื—ืœืง ืžื”ื—ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืœื” ื ื•ื˜ืฉื™ื ืื•ืชื”,
09:39
fellow athletes abandon her,
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ืกืคื•ืจื˜ืื™ื ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ื ื•ื˜ืฉื™ื ืื•ืชื”,
09:41
she loses her medals, her records are revoked.
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ื”ื™ื ืžืื‘ื“ืช ืืช ื”ืžื“ืœื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื”, ื”ืชื•ืฆืื•ืช ืฉืœื” ืžื‘ื•ื˜ืœื•ืช.
09:46
MW: So it turns out --
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ื•ื•ื‘ืกื˜ืจ: ืื– ืžืกืชื‘ืจ --
09:48
remember when I told you
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ืืชื ื–ื•ื›ืจื™ื ืฉืกื™ืคืจืชื™ ืœื›ื
09:49
you can be a bunch of different combinations of X and Y --
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ืฉืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื’ื•ื•ืŸ ืฉืœื ืฉืœ ืฉื™ืœื•ื‘ื™ื ืฉืœ X ื•-Y? --
09:52
you can also be XY and be female.
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ืืคืฉืจ ื’ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช XY ื•ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื ืงื‘ื”.
09:54
You can be XX and male.
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื’ื XX ื•ื–ื›ืจ.
09:56
In Marรญa's case, she was something called androgen insensitive.
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ื‘ืžืงืจื” ืฉืœ ืžืจื™ื” ื”ื™ื” ืœื” ืžื” ืฉื ืงืจื ืชืกืžื•ื ืช ื—ื•ืกืจ ืจื’ื™ืฉื•ืช ืœืื ื“ืจื•ื’ืŸ.
10:00
Which means that she did have some sort of internal testes --
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ืฉืื•ืžืจ ืฉื”ื™ื• ืœื” ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ืืฉื›ื™ื ืคื ื™ืžื™ื™ื --
10:04
they were making testosterone --
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ื”ื ื›ืŸ ื™ื™ืฆืจื• ื˜ืกื˜ื•ืกื˜ืจื•ืŸ --
10:06
but her body couldn't use it.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื’ื•ืฃ ืฉืœื” ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื•.
10:08
And so if you thought of testosterone as, like, a superpower,
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ื•ื›ืš, ืื ื—ืฉื‘ืชื ืฉื˜ืกื˜ื•ืกื˜ืจื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ื›ื•ื— ืขืœ,
10:11
she was not benefiting from it.
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ื”ื™ื ืœื ื ื”ื ืชื” ืžื”ืคื™ืจื•ืช ืฉืœื•.
10:14
And so eventually,
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ื•ื›ืš ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ,
10:15
sports authorities, like, let her back in,
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ืจืฉื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืกืคื•ืจื˜ ืื™ืฉืจื• ืœื” ืœื—ื–ื•ืจ ืœืžืงืฆื•ืข,
10:17
but her career was done.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื” ื›ื‘ืจ ื”ืกืชื™ื™ืžื”.
10:20
And in this instance you see how,
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ื•ื‘ืžืงืจื” ื”ื–ื” ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ืื™ืš
10:24
if you assign sex to a specific place in the body,
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ืื ืืชื ืžืฉื™ื™ื›ื™ื ืžื™ืŸ ืœืžืงื•ื ืžืกื•ื™ื ื‘ื’ื•ืฃ,
10:27
or at least, like, this is what I saw, right?
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ืื• ืœืคื—ื•ืช, ื›ื›ื” ืื ื™ ืจืื™ืชื™ ืืช ื–ื”, ื ื›ื•ืŸ?
10:30
If you assign sex to a specific place in the body,
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ืื ืืชื ืžืฉื™ื™ื›ื™ื ืžื™ืŸ ืœื—ืœืง ืžืกื•ื™ื ื‘ื’ื•ืฃ,
10:34
it somehow makes us think that we can go into a body,
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ื–ื” ืื™ื›ืฉื”ื• ื’ื•ืจื ืœื ื• ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื›ื ืก ืœืชื•ืš ื”ื’ื•ืฃ
10:37
look at a specific place
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ืœื‘ื—ื•ืŸ ืžืงื•ื ืื—ื“ ืกืคืฆื™ืคื™
10:39
and tell someone we know something more about them
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ื•ืœื•ืžืจ ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืขืœื™ื”ื
10:41
than they know about themselves.
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ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืžื” ืฉื”ื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืขืœ ืขืฆืžื.
10:44
And that feels terrifying to me.
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ื•ื–ื” ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืžืคื—ื™ื“.
10:48
And we don't genetically test female athletes anymore,
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ืกื•ืจืงื™ื ื’ื ื˜ื™ืช ืกืคื•ืจื˜ืื™ื•ืช,
10:51
but you can see very similar conversations happening
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ืื‘ืœ ืืคืฉืจ ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ื—ื•ืช ืžืื•ื“ ื“ื•ืžื•ืช ืฉืžืชืจื—ืฉื•ืช
10:55
when we talk about testosterone in sports,
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ื›ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื˜ืกื˜ื•ืกื˜ืจื•ืŸ ื‘ืกืคื•ืจื˜,
10:57
you can also see it in suggestions that we take transgender individuals
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ืืคืฉืจ ืœืจืื•ืช ืืช ื–ื” ื’ื ื‘ื”ืฆืขื•ืช ืœืงื—ืช ื˜ืจื ืก-ื’'ื ื“ืจื™ื
11:01
and we genetically analyze them and we tell them who they are.
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ื•ื ื ืชื— ืื•ืชื ื’ื ื˜ื™ืช ื›ื“ื™ ืœืงื‘ื•ืข ืžื™ ื”ื.
11:06
That is real,
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ื–ื” ืืžื™ืชื™.
11:07
that is a conversation that has happened recently.
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ื–ืืช ื”ื™ื ืฉื™ื—ื” ืฉื”ืชืจื—ืฉื” ืœืื—ืจื•ื ื”.
11:11
The last place that I'll share with you
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ื”ืชื—ื ื” ื”ืื—ืจื•ื ื” ืฉืื—ืœื•ืง ืืชื›ื
11:13
where these chromosomes got complicated for me
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ื‘ื” ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ื ื”ืืœื” ื”ืคื›ื• ืœืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืžืกื•ื‘ืš ื‘ืขื™ื ื™,
11:16
is this one thing that Melissa told me.
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ื”ื™ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืžืœื™ืกื” ืกื™ืคืจื” ืœื™.
11:18
(Audio) Wilson: You can't survive without an X chromosome.
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(ื”ืงืœื˜ื”) ื•ื•ื™ืœืกื•ืŸ: ืื™ ืืคืฉืจ ืœืฉืจื•ื“ ื‘ืœื™ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X.
11:21
No matter your gonads, no matter your identity,
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ืœื ืžืฉื ื” ืื™ืœื• ื‘ืœื•ื˜ื•ืช ืžื™ืŸ ื™ืฉ ืœืš, ืื• ืžื” ื”ื–ื”ื•ืช ื”ืžื’ื“ืจื™ืช ืฉืœืš,
11:23
every single human being has to have an X chromosome,
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ื›ืœ ื‘ืŸ ืื“ื ื—ื™ื™ื‘ ืฉื™ื”ื™ื” ืœื• ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X.
11:26
because without one, the rest of your body doesn't develop.
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ื›ื™ ื‘ืœืขื“ื™ื• ืฉืืจ ื”ื’ื•ืฃ ืฉืœืš ืœื ื™ืชืคืชื—.
11:29
MW: Why do we call this the female chromosome?
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ื•ื•ื™ืœืกื•ืŸ: ืœืžื” ืื ื—ื ื• ืงื•ืจืื™ื ืœื• ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”ื ืงื‘ื™?
11:31
OK, this is something I had never though about,
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ืื•ืงื™ื™, ื”ื ื” ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืขืœื™ื•,
11:33
but literally, every single person in this audience has an X chromosome,
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ืื‘ืœ ืœืžืขืฉื”, ืœื›ืœ ืžื™ ืฉื™ื•ืฉื‘ ื›ืืŸ ื”ื™ื•ื ื™ืฉ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X,
11:37
I'm not lying.
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ืื ื™ ืœื ืžืฉืงืจืช ืœื›ื.
11:38
Every single person on the planet has an X chromosome,
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ืœื›ืœ ื‘ืŸ ืื“ื ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื™ืฉ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื X,
11:40
but no one is going around like, "This is the every-person chromosome."
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ืื‘ืœ ืืฃ ืื—ื“ ืœื ืžืกืชื•ื‘ื‘ ื•ืื•ืžืจ, "ื–ื” ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื›ืœืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื".
11:44
You know?
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ืืชื ืžื‘ื™ื ื™ื?
11:45
Like, somehow it's over here, the Y is over there,
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ืื™ื›ืฉื”ื•, ื–ื” ืฉื, ื”-Y ื ืžืฆื ืฉื,
11:47
and they must be really different,
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ื•ื”ื ื—ื™ื™ื‘ื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืžืฉ ืฉื•ื ื™ื ื–ื” ืžื–ื”,
11:49
and I'm just like, it would be so much better
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ื•ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉื–ื” ื™ื›ื•ืœ ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ื˜ื•ื‘
11:51
if it was the every-person chromosome.
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ืื ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื›ืœืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื.
11:53
And not just because I'm like, love you all and I want you all in,
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ื•ืœื ืจืง ื›ื™ ืื ื™ ืื•ื”ื‘ืช ืืช ื›ื•ืœื›ื ื•ืจื•ืฆื” ืฉื›ื•ืœื›ื ืชื”ื™ื• ื—ืœืง ืžื–ื”,
11:56
but because of what we're overlooking by the fact that we consider it female.
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ืืœื ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืžืชืขืœืžื™ื ืžืžื ื• ื‘ืขืฆื ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืงื•ืจืื™ื ืœื• ื ืงื‘ื™.
12:02
Because I'm going to tell you one of the craziest things I found out.
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ื›ื™ ืื ื™ ืืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ืื—ื“ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืžื˜ื•ืจืคื™ื ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™.
12:05
Which is, when you think about the X chromosome,
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ื›ืฉืืชื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ืขืœ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”-X,
12:09
of the almost 1,100 genes on the X chromosome,
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ืžืชื•ืš ื›ืžืขื˜ 1,100 ื’ื ื™ื ืขืœ ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื ื”-X,
12:12
how many do you think have to do with sex and reproduction?
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ื›ืžื” ืœื“ืขืชื›ื ืงืฉื•ืจื™ื ื‘ืžื™ืŸ ื•ืจื‘ื™ื™ื”?
12:15
Like, get a number in your head.
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ืชื—ืฉื‘ื• ืขืœ ืžืกืคืจ ื‘ืจืืฉ ืฉืœื›ื.
12:19
Four percent.
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ืืจื‘ืข ืื—ื•ื–ื™ื.
12:21
That means 96 percent of the rest of that chromosome
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ื›ืœื•ืžืจ 96% ืฉืœ ืฉืืจ ื”ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ื
12:24
is doing something that has nothing to do with your gonads.
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ืขื•ืฉื™ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื• ืฉื•ื ืงืฉืจ ืœื‘ืœื•ื˜ื•ืช ื”ืžื™ืŸ ืฉืœื›ื.
12:28
And I guess as all of these,
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžื ื™ื—ื” ืฉื›ื›ืœ ืฉื›ืœ ืืœื”,
12:30
sort of, some of them social stories,
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ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจื™ื ื”ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ื™ื,
12:32
some of them scientific stories, some of these facts,
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ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจื™ื ื”ืžื“ืขื™ื™ื, ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื•ืช,
12:35
started to add up, I just thought, like,
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ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœื”ืชืืกืฃ, ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™
12:38
why are we calling these the sex chromosomes?
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ืœืžื” ืื ื—ื ื• ืงื•ืจืื™ื ืœื”ื ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ืžื™ืŸ?
12:41
Or if we are, like, maybe we all like that name,
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ืื• ืื•ืœื™ ื›ื•ืœื ื• ืื•ื”ื‘ื™ื ืืช ื”ืฉื ื”ื–ื”,
12:44
should we just allow ourselves to think about them
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ืื•ืœื™ ื›ื“ืื™ ืฉื ืจืฉื” ืœืขืฆืžื ื• ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืขืœื™ื”ื
12:48
a little more broadly?
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ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืจื—ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ?
12:49
Because if we do,
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ื›ื™ ืื ื ืขืฉื” ื–ืืช,
12:50
like, what insights would we gain, as people, as scientists?
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ืื™ืœื• ืชื•ื‘ื ื•ืช ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœืจื›ื•ืฉ, ื›ืื ืฉื™ื ื•ื›ืžื“ืขื ื™ื?
12:55
And we're at this point where we're thinking about, like,
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ื•ืื ื—ื ื• ื ืžืฆืื™ื ื‘ื ืงื•ื“ื” ื‘ื” ืื ื—ื ื• ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ
12:58
how do we want to teach science,
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ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืœืžื“ ืžื“ืข,
12:59
what do we want to fund,
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ืžื” ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืžืžืŸ,
13:01
like, who do we want to be as a society, you know?
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ืžื™ ืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื›ื—ื‘ืจื”?
13:03
And I just wondered if it wasn't a moment to rethink the biology of X and Y,
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ื•ืชื”ื™ืชื™ ืื ื–ื” ืœื ื”ืจื’ืข ืœืฉืงื•ืœ ืžื—ื“ืฉ ืืช ื”ื‘ื™ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ื” ืฉืœ X ื•-Y,
13:08
and at the very least,
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ื•ืœื›ืœ ื”ืคื—ื•ืช,
13:11
to remember, like, the footnotes of history,
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ืœื–ื›ื•ืจ ืืช ื”ืขืจื•ืช ื”ืฉื•ืœื™ื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื”,
13:13
which is that the dude who came up with the phrase "sex chromosome,"
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ืฉื”ืŸ ืฉื”ื‘ื—ื•ืจ ืฉื—ืฉื‘ ืขืœ ื”ืฉื "ื›ืจื•ืžื•ื–ื•ืžื™ ืžื™ืŸ",
13:18
actually was like, "Hey, everyone, just remember, this is just,"
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ื‘ืขืฆื ื ื™ืกื” ืœื•ืžืจ "ืจืง ืชื–ื›ืจื•, ื–ื” ืจืง",
13:22
and I quote, "a form of shorthand."
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžืฆื˜ื˜ืช "ื›ืชื™ื‘ื” ืžืงื•ืฆืจืช".
13:25
We should not take it literally.
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ืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœืชืจื’ื ืืช ื–ื” ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžื™ืœื•ืœื™.
13:28
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื”.
13:29
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7