Paul Pholeros: How to reduce poverty? Fix homes

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

譯者: Regina Chu 審譯者: Marssi Draw

The idea of eliminating poverty is a great goal.

想要消滅貧窮是個偉大的目標

我想在座的各位都會同意

I don't think anyone in this room would disagree.

What worries me is when politicians with money

我擔心的是有錢的政治人物

and charismatic rock stars --

及充滿魅力的搖滾明星

(Laughter)

用這個字

use the words,

" ... it all just sounds so, so simple."

使這一切聽起來非常非常簡單

那麼，我今天沒有半毛錢

Now, I've got no bucket of money today

and I've got no policy to release,

也沒有政策要公佈

and I certainly haven't got a guitar.

我當然也沒有吉他

I'll leave that to others.

我把那些都留給別人去做

But I do have an idea,

但我的確有個計畫

and that idea is called Housing for Health.

這個計畫稱做健康的家

Housing for Health works with poor people.

健康的家與窮人合作

It works in the places where they live,

在他們住的地方實際運作

and the work is done to improve their health.

而計畫完成後能改善他們的健康

Over the last 28 years,

過去 28 年來

this tough, grinding, dirty work

這份艱難、費力，又會弄得滿身污泥的工作

has been done by literally thousands of people around Australia

已有上千人在澳洲親自完成

近期更拓展至海外

and, more recently, overseas,

and their work has proven

他們的工作證明了 藉由量身訂作的設計

that focused design can improve even the poorest living environments.

即使是最貧窮的生活環境也能改善

It can improve health

它能改善健康 而且雖還稱不上消滅

and it can play a part in reducing, if not eliminating, poverty.

但至少在減少貧窮上也有功勞

I'm going to start where the story began --

我要從 1985 年說起

1985, in Central Australia.

故事從澳洲中部開始

有一位叫亞米的原住民

A man called Yami Lester, an Aboriginal man,

was running a health service.

那時候管理一間健康服務中心

Eighty percent of what walked in the door, in terms of illness,

上門求診的人

有 80% 得的是傳染病

was infectious disease --

third world, developing world infectious disease,

第三世界發展中國家的傳染病

caused by a poor living environment.

通常都是因為很糟的生活環境而引起

亞米在愛麗斯泉組了一個團隊

Yami assembled a team in Alice Springs.

He got a medical doctor.

他找了位醫生

He got an environmental health guy.

他找了位搞環境衛生的傢伙

And he hand-selected a team of local Aboriginal people

然後他親自從當地 原住民中挑出一群人

to work on this project.

參與這個計畫

Yami told us at that first meeting,

亞米在第一次會議上告訴我們 他們沒錢

"There's no money," -- always a good start --

非常好的開始，沒錢

" ... no money, you have six months,

你有六個月的時間

and I want you to start on a project --" which, in his language,

我要你開始一項計畫

他的母語稱這計畫為 "uwankara palyanku kanyintjaku"

he called "Uwankara Palyanku Kanyintjaku,"

which, translated, is "a plan to stop people getting sick" --

翻譯起來就是 「讓人不再生病的計畫」

a profound brief.

非常深遠的信念

That was our task.

那就是我們的任務

First step, the medical doctor went away for about six months.

第一步，那位醫生離開

約六個月時間

And he worked on what were to become these nine health goals --

他做的研究後來變成了

健康目標的項目 我們集中火力的目標

what were we aiming at?

After six months of work, he came to my office

六個月後他回到我的辦公室

and presented me with those nine words on a piece of paper.

在一張紙上寫下那九個字 對我做簡報

『九項健康生活原則：洗澡、洗衣、 廢水、營養、擁擠、動物、粉塵、溫度、受傷。』

[The 9 Healthy Living Practices: Washing, clothes, wastewater, nutrition, crowding,

那時我極度不為所動

animals, dust, temperature, injury]

搞什麼

I was very unimpressed. Big ideas need big words,

遠大的想法要配艱澀的文字

and preferably a lot of them.

最好還是一大堆

This didn't fit the bill.

這跟我所想的不合

What I didn't see and what you can't see

當時我沒看見 而你們在這也看不到的

was that he'd assembled thousands of pages

是他其實集結了數千頁

of local, national and international health research

當地、全國及國際的健康研究

that filled out the picture as to why these were the health targets.

然後填進圖片說明為什麼這些

是健康目標

The pictures that came a bit later had a very simple reason.

這些圖片晚一點才畫出來

理由很簡單

The Aboriginal people who were our bosses and the senior people

這些原住民是我們的老闆

而老一輩的人大多普遍是文盲

were most commonly illiterate,

so the story had to be told in pictures

所以一定要用圖片來告訴這些人

of what these goals were.

我們的目標是什麼

We worked with the community,

我們要與這個社群合作

not telling them what was going to happen

不能用他們聽不懂的語言

in a language they didn't understand.

來告訴他們要做什麼

So we had the goals and each one of these goals --

所以我們把目標，每一項目標

and I won't go through them all --

──我不會在此一一詳述──

puts at the center the person and their health issue,

放在中心的是居民及其健康問題

and it then connects them

然後把這個中心目標

to the bits of the physical environment that are actually needed

與實際的生活環境相連

就是他們實際所需<br />以維持健康的環境

to keep their health good.

And the highest priority, you see on the screen,

最優先的，你在螢幕上看到了

is washing people once a day, particularly children.

是讓大家每天洗一次澡<br />尤其是孩童

And I hope most of you are thinking,

我很希望在座的各位會想

「什麼？這太簡單了吧。」

"What? That sounds simple."

Now, I'm going to ask you all a very personal question.

那麼，我來問各位一個 非常私人的問題

This morning before you came,

今天早上你們來之前

who could have had a wash using a shower?

誰可以用蓮蓬頭沖個澡的？

我不是要問你們是不是有洗澡

I'm not going to ask if you had a shower, because I'm too polite.

因為我很有禮貌，就是這樣 （笑聲）

That's it.

(Laughter)

好，好

All right, I think it's fair to say

我想這麼說不為過，在座大部分的人

most people here could have had a shower this morning.

今天早上都可以沖個澡

I'm going to ask you to do some more work.

我還要再讓各位多做點事

I want you all to select one of the houses

我要你們所有人 從螢幕上的 25 間房子裡

of the 25 houses you see on the screen.

選出一間

I want you to select one of them and note the position of that house

我要你們從中選一間且注意一下

那間房子的位置

and keep that in your head.

然後記在腦子裡

都選好房子了嗎？我要請你們

Have you all got a house?

I'm going to ask you to live there for a few months,

在那裡住幾個月 所以你要確定你選了合意的房子

so make sure you've got it right.

這位於西澳的西北區 非常宜人的地方

It's in the northwest of Western Australia, very pleasant place.

OK. Let's see if your shower in that house is working.

好，來看看你選的房子 淋浴設備能不能用

I hear some "Aw!" and I hear some "Ah!"

我聽到了一些「喔」還有「啊」

If you get a green tick, your shower's working.

如果你選的房子打了綠勾 你的淋浴設備能用

You and your kids are fine.

你和你的孩子會很好

If you get a red cross,

如果你拿了個紅叉

well, I've looked carefully around the room

嗯，我已經仔細看過這廳裡的人

and it's not going to make much difference to this crew.

對你們這群人其實也沒差

Why? Because you're all too old.

為什麼？因為你們都太老了

我知道這對在座某些人而言很震驚

I know that's going to come as a shock to some of you, but you are.

但你真的太老了

And before you get offended and leave,

那麼在你覺得被冒犯而離座前

I've got to say that being too old,

我要說一下所謂太老，在這是說

in this case, means that pretty much everyone in the room, I think,

我想幾乎在座的每一位

is over five years of age.

都超過五歲

We're really concerned with kids naught to five.

我們非常注意零到五歲的孩子

And why?

為什麼？洗澡是病菌感染的解毒劑

Washing is the antidote to the sort of bugs,

the common infectious diseases of the eyes, the ears,

常見的感染型疾病，像眼睛、耳朵

胸腔及皮膚等等

the chest and the skin

that, if they occur in the first five years of life,

這些如果在生命的頭五年發生

permanently damage those organs.

會對這些器官造成永久性傷害

They leave a lifelong remnant.

這些疾病會殘留一輩子

也就是說到了五歲

That means that by the age of five,

you can't see as well for the rest of your life.

你的視力一輩子都不會太好

You can't hear as well for the rest of your life.

你的聽力一輩子都不會太好

You can't breathe as well.

你的呼吸也不會太好

You've lost a third of your lung capacity by the age of five.

五歲的時候<br/>你會失去三分之一的肺活量

And even skin infection,

甚至是皮膚感染，我們一開始覺得

which we originally thought wasn't that big a problem,

這不是甚麼大問題

mild skin infections naught to five give you

零到五歲間，即使是輕微的皮膚感染

a greatly increased chance of renal failure,

也會大幅增加腎衰竭的機會

needing dialysis at age 40.

使你在四十歲時需要洗腎

This is a big deal, so the ticks and crosses on the screen

這是大問題 所以這些螢幕上的綠勾紅叉

are actually critical for young kids.

對年幼的孩子其實非常關鍵

Those ticks and crosses represent the 7,800 houses

這些綠勾紅叉的比例 與我們在整個澳洲

we've looked at nationally around Australia,

所合作的 7,800 棟房子

the same proportion.

比例相同

What you see on the screen --

你在螢幕上看到的──35% 的這些

35 percent of those not-so-famous houses

沒名氣的房子裡住著五萬名土著

lived in by 50,000 indigenous people --

35 percent had a working shower.

35% 有可使用的淋浴設備

同樣這 7,800 間房子裡

Ten percent of those same 7,800 houses had safe electrical systems.

10% 有安全的電力系統

58% 的房子

And 58 percent of those houses had a working toilet.

有可使用的抽水馬桶

These are by a simple, standard test.

這些是用簡單的標準測試出來的

In the case of the shower:

在淋浴設備方面，有沒有熱水及冷水

does it have hot and cold water, two taps that work,

兩種可用的水龍頭

a shower rose to get water onto your head or onto your body,

有沒有蓮蓬頭把水送到你的頭上

或身上？有沒有下水口排水？

and a drain that takes the water away?

不看設計好不好 漂不漂亮，優不優雅 ——

Not well-designed, not beautiful, not elegant --

就只看功能如何

just that they function.

And the same tests for the electrical system

在看電力系統及馬桶時 也是同樣的測試法

and the toilets.

Housing for Health projects aren't about measuring failure --

健康的家計畫 不是拿來測量失敗率的

they're actually about improving houses.

這些計畫是為了改善房屋而做的

We start on day one of every project.

我們從每個計畫的第一天開始

──我們學到不給承諾，不做報告

We've learned -- we don't make promises, we don't do reports.

We arrive in the morning with tools, tons of equipment, trades,

我們早上拿著工具 還有多到不行的器材貨物到家裡

我們在第一天就培訓了 一個由當地人組成的團隊

and we train up a local team on the first day to start work.

來開始工作

By the evening of the first day,

第一天晚上那個社區就有

a few houses in that community are better than when we started in the morning.

幾間房子變得比我們早上

開始的時候更好了

That work continues for six to 12 months,

這樣的工作要持續六到十二個月

until all the houses are improved

直到所有的房子都改善為止

and we've spent our budget of 7,500 dollars total per house.

我們花在每間房子的經費是

7,500 元

That's our average budget.

那是平均經費

At the end of six months to a year, we test every house again.

在六個月到一年的計畫結束後 我們會再測試每一間房子

It's very easy to spend money.

要花錢很容易

It's very difficult to improve

要改善房子裡的每一項功能

the function of all those parts of the house.

卻非常困難

And for a whole house, the nine healthy living practices,

對整間房子而言 為了推行這九項健康生活

we test, check and fix 250 items in every house.

我們要在每一間房屋裡 測試、檢查、修繕 250 個項目

And these are the results we can get with our 7,500 dollars.

以下是我們

花 7,500 元所得到的結果

We can get showers up to 86 percent working,

我們可以修好 86% 的淋浴設備

we can get electrical systems up to 77 percent working

我們可以讓 77% 的電力設備恢復功能

and we can get 90 percent of toilets working

也可以修好 90% 的抽水馬桶

in those 7,500 houses.

在這 7,500 間房子裡

謝謝（掌聲）

(Applause)

Thank you.

(Applause)

這個團隊做得非常好 這些就是他們辛苦的結果

The teams do a great job, and that's their work.

I think there's an obvious question

我想有個明顯的問題

that I hope you're thinking about.

我希望你們能思考一下

Why do we have to do this work?

為什麼我們要做這樣的事？

Why are the houses in such poor condition?

為什麼這些房子的狀況這麼糟？

Seventy percent of the work we do is due to lack of routine maintenance --

我們所做的工作之中的 70%

是由於疏於日常保養

the sort of things that happen in all our houses.

所有的房子都可看見這種情況

東西用壞了

Things wear out, should have been done by state government or local government,

這些都該由中央政府或地方政府來做

simply not done, the house doesn't work.

不做，這些房子就不堪用

Twenty-one percent of the things we fix are due to faulty construction --

我們修的東西當中有 21%

是因為錯誤安裝

literally things that are built upside down and back to front.

真的就是上下或前後裝顛倒

They don't work, we have to fix them.

這些當然不能使用，我們要修理

如果過去 30 年間你曾住在澳洲

And if you've lived in Australia in the last 30 years, the final cause --

最後這項因素—— 你一定老是聽到人家這麼說

you will have heard always that indigenous people trash houses.

就是原住民不珍惜房子

It's one of the almost rock-solid pieces of evidence

這幾乎是堅不可攻的證據

which I've never seen evidence for,

但我從來沒看過有什麼證明

that's always reeled out as "That's the problem with indigenous housing."

總是不需要多想<br/>因為這些是原住民住房的問題

我們修的房子裡有 9%

Well, nine percent of what we spend is damage,

misuse or abuse of any sort.

的確有損害、誤用或濫用的情況

但是對此我們強烈抗議，住在房子裡的人

We argue strongly that the people living in the house

are simply not the problem.

不是問題所在

And we'll go a lot further than that;

我們還要更進一步說

住在房子裡的那些人其實

the people living in the house are actually a major part of the solution.

還是解決問題的主要推手

Seventy-five percent of our national team in Australia --

我們在澳洲的團隊有 75% 的人

over 75 at the minute --

現在還超過 75%

are actually local, indigenous people from the communities we work in.

其實是當地人，土著

來自我們幫助的社區

They do all aspects of the work.

他們做各樣的工作

(Applause)

（掌聲）

In 2010, for example, there were 831,

舉個例，2010 年

all over Australia, and the Torres Strait Islands,

在全澳洲、托雷斯海峽群島，以及每一個州

all states, working to improve the houses where they and their families live,

共有 831 人參與改善

他們自己和家人居住的房子

and that's an important thing.

而那是很重要的事

Our work's always had a focus on health.

我們的工作總是著重在健康，這是關鍵

That's the key.

The developing world bug, trachoma, causes blindness.

發展中國家的沙眼病菌會導致失明

It's a developing-world illness,

這是發展中國家的疾病

and yet, the picture you see behind

但是你在我身後看到的這張照片

is in an Aboriginal community in the late 1990s,

是 1990 年代晚期的原住民社區

where 95 percent of school-aged kids had active trachoma

那裡 95% 的學齡兒童患有沙眼

對眼睛造成損傷

in their eyes, doing damage.

所以我們做了什麼？

OK, what do we do?

Well, first thing we do, we get showers working.

首先我們把淋浴設備搞定

Why? Because that flushes the bug out.

為什麼？因為這會把病菌沖走

We put washing facilities in the school as well,

我們也在學校裡裝了洗滌設備

so kids can wash their faces many times during the day.

所以孩子們白天可以洗很多次臉

We wash the bug out.

我們把病菌洗掉

Second, the eye doctors tell us that dust scours the eye

第二，眼科醫師告訴我們 灰塵會磨擦眼睛

and lets the bug in quick.

使病菌更快附著 所以我們怎麼做？

So what do we do?

我們徵調了粉塵醫生 真的有這種人

We call up the doctor of dust, and there is such a person.

He was loaned to us by a mining company.

我們從採礦公司借將

He controls dust on mining company sites.

他在採礦場控制粉塵量

所以他來了，而且在幾天內就奏效

And he came out and, within a day,

it worked out that most dust in this community

這個社區的大部分灰塵

was within a meter of the ground, the wind-driven dust --

都飄在距地表一公尺範圍內 風會帶來灰塵

so he suggested making mounds to catch the dust

所以他建議做些土牆擋住灰塵

before it went into the house area and affected the eyes of kids.

讓灰塵吹不進居住區

危害孩童的眼睛

So we used dirt to stop dust.

所以我們用土堆擋灰塵

We did it. He provided us dust monitors.

我們就這麼做了。他提供了粉塵計

We tested and we reduced the dust.

我們作測試減低粉塵量

然後我們還想大規模地消滅這種病菌

Then we wanted to get rid of the bug generally.

所以我們要怎麼做？

So how do we do that?

Well, we call up the doctor of flies -- and, yes, there is a doctor of flies.

嗯，我們徵調蒼蠅醫生

沒錯，真的有蒼蠅醫生

As our Aboriginal mate said,

如同我們一位原住民夥伴說的：

"You white fellows ought to get out more."

「你們這些白人應該多出來走走。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And the doctor of flies very quickly determined

這個蒼蠅醫生很快判斷出

that there was one fly that carried the bug.

有一種蒼蠅是病媒

He could give school kids in this community

他可以給這個社區的學校孩童

the beautiful fly trap you see above in the slide.

美麗的蒼蠅陷阱 你可在上面那張照片上看到

They could trap the flies, send them to him in Perth.

這些可以捕蒼蠅 然後把這些送到伯斯給他

When the bug was in the gut,

如果在蒼蠅的腸子裡找到這些病菌

he'd send back by return post some dung beetles.

他就以回郵送回一些糞金龜

糞金龜會吃駱駝糞

The dung beetles ate the camel dung,

所以蒼蠅會因缺乏食物而死

the flies died through lack of food,

and trachoma dropped.

那麼沙眼病例就會下降

And over the year, trachoma dropped radically in this place, and stayed low.

而過去這一年，沙眼病例

在此急遽下降，並維持低患病率

We changed the environment, not just treated the eyes.

我們要改變環境，不是只來治療眼睛

所以最後，你就會有好眼睛

And finally, you get a good eye.

All these small health gains

這些小小的健康成效

and small pieces of the puzzle make a big difference.

與小小的拼圖，可以做出大大的改變

The New South Wales Department of Health,

新南威爾斯健康部

that radical organization,

這個激進組織

did an independent trial over three years

在過去三年做了一個獨立試驗

to look at 10 years of the work we've been doing

來檢驗我們這十年在新威爾斯省

in these sorts of projects in New South Wales.

所做的這一類的計畫成果

And they found a 40 percent reduction in hospital admissions

他們發現因病住院的情況

減少了 40%

for the illnesses that you could attribute to the poor environment --

而這些疾病可以歸咎為<br/>不健全的生活環境

a 40 percent reduction.

40% 的減少

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Just to show that the principles we've used in Australia

為了證明我們在澳洲用的這些原理

也可以用在其它地方

can be used in other places,

I'm just going to go to one other place, and that's Nepal.

我要再介紹另一個地方，就是尼泊爾

And what a beautiful place to go.

這真是一個美麗的地方

We were asked by a small village of 600 people

有個 600 人的村落要求我們

to go in and make toilets where none existed.

進入村子並蓋廁所 那裡一間也沒有

Health was poor.

衛生很差

We went in with no grand plan,

我們去的時候沒有偉大的計畫 也沒有偉大的承諾

no grand promises of a great program,

要做多大計畫，就只是進去蓋

just the offer to build two toilets for two families.

兩間廁所給兩戶人家使用

就是在設計第一間廁所的時候

It was during the design of the first toilet

that I went for lunch,

我進屋去吃午餐，那戶人家邀我

invited by the family into their main room of the house.

進入他們房子的主廳

It was choking with smoke.

裡面煙霧瀰漫

People were cooking on their only fuel source, green timber.

他們拿唯一的燃料，生木材來煮飯

The smoke coming off that timber is choking,

燒燒生木材產生的煙令人窒息

and in an enclosed house, you simply can't breathe.

而且在密閉的房屋裡<br/>你簡直無法呼吸

之後我們發現 他們生病及死亡的最主要原因

Later we found the leading cause of illness and death

in this particular region is through respiratory failure.

在這個區域是因為呼吸衰竭

So all of a sudden, we had two problems.

所以突然間我們有了兩個難題

We were there originally to look at toilets

我們本來是去看看廁所

and get human waste off the ground, that's fine.

要把人的排泄物挪開地面，這還好

但突然間，現在出現了第二個難題

But all of a sudden now there was a second problem:

我們要怎麼把煙霧減少？ 所以現在問題有二

How do we actually get the smoke down?

So two problems, and design should be about more than one thing.

而設計應該一石二鳥

Solution: Take human waste, take animal waste,

答案：把人的排泄物，動物排泄物

put it into a chamber, out of that, extract biogas,

放進一個密室，從中抽出沼氣

methane gas.

就是甲烷氣

The gas gives three to four hours cooking a day --

這些氣體可以維持 一天三到四小時的煮飯所需

乾淨無煙不花一毛錢

clean, smokeless and free for the family.

(Applause)

（掌聲）

I put it to you: is this eliminating poverty?

現在我要問你們<br/>這算不算消滅貧窮？

And the answer from the Nepali team who's working at the minute would say,

現在還在工作的尼泊爾團隊

會回答說，別傻了！

don't be ridiculous --

we have three million more toilets to build

在我們嘗試宣告消滅貧窮前

before we can even make a stab at that claim.

還有三百萬間廁所要蓋

And I don't pretend anything else.

我也不想假裝什麼

But as we all sit here today,

但到現在這一刻為止

there are now over 100 toilets built

他們已經蓋了超過 100 間廁所

in this village and a couple nearby.

在這個村落及其附近

超過一千人在使用這些廁所

Well over 1,000 people use those toilets.

Yami Lama, he's a young boy.

雅米‧拉瑪，他是個年輕男孩

He's got significantly less gut infection because he's now got toilets,

他很明顯不再那麼常得腸胃炎

因為他有了廁所可用

地表上不再有人的排泄物

and there isn't human waste on the ground.

肯治‧瑪雅，她是位值得誇耀的母親

Kanji Maya, she's a mother, and a proud one.

She's probably right now cooking lunch for her family

她現在大概就在為她的家庭煮午飯

on biogas, smokeless fuel.

用沼氣，無煙的燃料

Her lungs have got better,

她的肺更健康了，而且隨著時間

and they'll get better as time increases,

還會變得更好<br/>因為她不用在煙霧下煮飯

because she's not cooking in the same smoke.

Surya takes the waste out of the biogas chamber

沼氣排完後，索亞就把 排泄物搬出沼氣室

when it's shed the gas, he puts it on his crops.

把這些排泄物澆在作物上

He's trebled his crop income,

他的作物收入增加了兩倍

家裡有更多的食物及金錢

more food for the family and more money for the family.

And finally Bishnu, the leader of the team,

最後是畢士努

這個團隊的領隊，他現在明瞭

has now understood that not only have we built toilets,

我們不只建造了廁所

we've also built a team,

我們還建造了一個團隊

and that team is now working in two villages

而且這個團隊現正在兩個村落工作

where they're training up the next two villages

他們在那裡訓練另外兩個村落的人

to keep the work expanding.

持續擴展工作

And that, to me, is the key.

而那對我是關鍵

(Applause)

（掌聲）

People are not the problem.

人不是問題

We've never found that.

我們從來不這麼看

問題是：條件差的生活環境

The problem: poor living environment,

條件差的住宅，及會危害人的病菌

poor housing and the bugs that do people harm.

這些不會受地域限制

None of those are limited by geography, by skin color or by religion.

也不會受皮膚顏色或信仰影響，全都不會

None of them.

我們所作之事的共通處

The common link between all the work we've had to do

is one thing, and that's poverty.

就一件事，而那就是貧窮

Nelson Mandela said, in the mid-2000s, not too far from here,

曼德拉曾在 2000 年代中期

離現在還不算太久，說過

he said that like slavery and apartheid, "Poverty is not natural.

就像奴隸制度和種族隔離<br/>「貧窮並非天生

It is man-made and can be overcome and eradicated

它是人所創造，而人類的行動可以

by the actions of human beings."

克服及消滅它。」

I want to end by saying

我最後想說，這是

it's been the actions of thousands of ordinary human beings

數千平凡人的行動

以不平凡的工作

doing -- I think -- extraordinary work,

that have actually improved health,

來實際改善健康

以及減少貧窮，就算只有一點點

and, maybe only in a small way, reduced poverty.

Thank you very much for your time.

謝謝你們寶貴的時間

(Applause)

（掌聲）