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譯者: Hoi San Sio
審譯者: Lin Su-Wei(林書暐)
00:12
I'll start with my favorite muse, Emily Dickinson,
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我最喜愛的靈感女神艾米莉·迪金森曾說
00:15
who said that wonder is not knowledge, neither is it ignorance.
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想像不是知識,也不是無知
00:19
It's something which is suspended
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想像是介乎於
00:21
between what we believe we can be,
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我們對未來的憧憬,和
00:23
and a tradition we may have forgotten.
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即將消逝的傳統之間
00:25
And I think, when I listen to these incredible people here,
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當我在這裡聽到許多優秀的人物演講時
00:28
I've been so inspired -- so many incredible ideas, so many visions.
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啟發了我許多想法,原來有這麼多傑出的點子和願景
00:32
And yet, when I look at the environment outside,
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但當我往窗外一看
00:36
you see how resistant architecture is to change.
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你會發現我們的建築物是那麼的死板
00:38
You see how resistant it is to those very ideas.
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是那麼的抗拒新想法
00:41
We can think them out. We can create incredible things.
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我們可以想像改變,我們可以創造美好的東西
00:44
And yet, at the end,
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但到了最後
00:46
it's so hard to change a wall.
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這面高牆還是難以翻越
00:48
We applaud the well-mannered box.
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我們依舊讚揚那些四四方方的建築物
00:51
But to create a space that never existed is what interests me;
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我只對創造前所未有的空間有興趣
00:54
to create something that has never been,
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和創造史無前例的東西
00:57
a space that we have never entered except in our minds and our spirits.
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一個只曾在我們想像和心靈存在的空間
01:00
And I think that's really what architecture is based on.
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我認為這才是建築的本質
01:03
Architecture is not based on concrete
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建築不是奠基於混凝土
01:05
and steel and the elements of the soil.
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鋼鐵或是泥土上
01:07
It's based on wonder.
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而是奠基於我們的想像
01:09
And that wonder is really what has created the greatest cities,
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想像使我們建成最偉大的城市,和
01:12
the greatest spaces that we have had.
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最美好的生活空間
01:14
And I think that is indeed what architecture is. It is a story.
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我想建築便是如此。建築是一個故事
01:18
By the way, it is a story that is told through
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建築是一個透過
01:21
its hard materials.
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實體來說的故事
01:23
But it is a story of effort and struggle
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一個關於努力和奮鬥
01:25
against improbabilities.
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抗衡不可能的故事
01:27
If you think of the great buildings, of the cathedrals, of the temples,
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當你想到那些偉大的建築物、大教堂、寺廟
01:29
of the pyramids, of pagodas,
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金字塔、寶塔
01:31
of cities in India and beyond,
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在印度的城市及以後以外城市
01:34
you think of how incredible this is that that was realized
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那些不可思議的城市和建築不是來自
01:37
not by some abstract idea, but by people.
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一個抽象的概念,而是來自人
01:40
So, anything that has been made can be unmade.
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我們可以重塑那些現有的建築物
01:42
Anything that has been made can be made better.
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或是讓它們更完美
01:45
There it is: the things that I really believe
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這些是我認為對建築來說
01:47
are of important architecture.
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真正重要的東西
01:49
These are the dimensions that I like to work with.
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我期盼能在這些概念下創作
01:51
It's something very personal.
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這是我個人的想法
01:53
It's not, perhaps, the dimensions appreciated by art critics
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或許這不是藝術評論家
01:55
or architecture critics or city planners.
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或建築評論家或城市規劃者所讚賞的
01:57
But I think these are the necessary oxygen
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但我認為在怎樣的建築物裡、城市生活
02:00
for us to live in buildings, to live in cities,
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並連結我們彼此的社交空間
02:02
to connect ourselves in a social space.
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跟呼吸一樣重要
02:05
And I therefore believe that optimism is what drives architecture forward.
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樂觀精神是推動建築設計進步的動力
02:08
It's the only profession where you have to believe in the future.
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建築在未來的進步是你可以看得到的
02:12
You can be a general, a politician, an economist who is depressed,
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你可以是一個沮喪的將軍,政治家,經濟學家
02:16
a musician in a minor key, a painter in dark colors.
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一個憂鬱的音樂家,一個暗沉的畫家
02:19
But architecture is that complete ecstasy that the future can be better.
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但建築是帶著狂喜地期盼美好的未來
02:24
And it is that belief that I think drives society.
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而我認為這便是推動社會進步的信念
02:27
And today we have a kind of evangelical pessimism all around us.
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現今我們被悲觀的說法包圍
02:30
And yet it is in times like this
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然而在這樣的時代
02:32
that I think architecture can thrive with big ideas,
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建築也可以為偉大的想法而奮鬥
02:35
ideas that are not small. Think of the great cities.
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想想那些偉大的城市
02:38
Think of the Empire State Building, the Rockefeller Center.
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想想帝國大廈和洛克菲勒中心
02:40
They were built in times that were
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它們的建造時間
02:42
not really the best of times in a certain way.
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都是在最艱困的時代
02:44
And yet that energy and power of architecture
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然而建築物帶來的精神和力量
02:48
has driven an entire social and political space that these buildings occupy.
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卻讓整個社會和政治環境得到進步
02:53
So again, I am a believer in the expressive.
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我認為建築能表現某些事情
02:55
I have never been a fan of the neutral.
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我從來不是一個中立者
02:58
I don't like neutrality in life, in anything.
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我不喜歡在生活上或任何事上中立
03:00
I think expression.
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表現就像
03:02
And it's like espresso coffee, you know, you take the essence of the coffee.
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就像濃縮咖啡,把咖啡的精髓提煉出來
03:04
That's what expression is.
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這就是我所謂的表現
03:06
It's been missing in much of the architecture,
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而我們大部分的建築已經失去這樣的能力
03:08
because we think architecture is the realm of the neutered,
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因為我們認為建築是一個中立的領域
03:12
the realm of the kind of a state that has no opinion,
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一個沒有看法的領域
03:16
that has no value.
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也沒有價值觀
03:18
And yet, I believe it is the expression --
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但我仍然相信建築是一種表現
03:20
expression of the city, expression of our own space --
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是城市和生活空間的表現
03:23
that gives meaning to architecture.
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賦予了建築物意義
03:25
And, of course, expressive spaces are not mute.
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建築物表現的空間並不是沈默的
03:28
Expressive spaces are not spaces
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這表現的空間不只是
03:30
that simply confirm what we already know.
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表達我們已知的事情
03:32
Expressive spaces may disturb us.
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這空間可能會使我們不安
03:34
And I think that's also part of life.
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我認為這也是人生的一部分
03:36
Life is not just an anesthetic to make us smile,
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人生不該只有那些麻痺的笑容
03:39
but to reach out across the abyss of history,
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而是越過歷史的深淵
03:42
to places we have never been,
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到達我們從未到過的地方
03:44
and would have perhaps been, had we not been so lucky.
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如果我們不試,可能無法到達那種境界
03:47
So again, radical versus conservative.
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激進與保守
03:50
Radical, what does it mean? It's something which is rooted,
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什麼是激進?那是根深蒂固的
03:53
and something which is rooted deep in a tradition.
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在傳統上生根的
03:55
And I think that is what architecture is, it's radical.
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我認為建築也是激進的
03:58
It's not just a conservation in formaldehyde
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而不是像死去一樣
04:00
of dead forms.
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被保護在傳統的束縛裡
04:02
It is actually a living connection
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建築是活生生的
04:04
to the cosmic event that we are part of,
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聯系著宇宙
04:07
and a story that is certainly ongoing.
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它是一個正在進行的故事
04:09
It's not something that has a good ending or a bad ending.
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它的結局可以是好也可以是壞
04:12
It's actually a story in which our acts themselves
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它是我們正參與著的故事
04:15
are pushing the story in a particular way.
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我們的行為會影響這故事
04:17
So again I am a believer in the radical architecture.
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我是個激進建築的信徒
04:20
You know the Soviet architecture of that building
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你們都見過蘇聯的建築
04:22
is the conservation.
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那就是傳統
04:24
It's like the old Las Vegas used to be.
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那就像過去的拉斯維加斯一樣
04:26
It's about conserving emotions, conserving the traditions
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著重的是保守和傳統
04:29
that have obstructed the mind in moving forward
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這些阻礙了我們的思想進步
04:31
and of course what is radical is to confront them.
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激進就是要對抗這些保守思想
04:34
And I think our architecture is a confrontation
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我認為建築正在和我們的
04:36
with our own senses.
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知覺對抗
04:38
Therefore I believe it should not be cool.
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所以我認為建築不該是冷酷的
04:40
There is a lot of appreciation for the kind of cool architecture.
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許多人喜歡那種冷酷的建築
04:44
I've always been an opponent of it. I think emotion is needed.
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我一直反對這個想法,我認為建築必須要有情緒
04:47
Life without emotion would really not be life.
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沒有情緒的人生便不是人生
04:50
Even the mind is emotional.
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甚至我們的思想都是情緒化的
04:52
There is no reason which does not take a position
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沒理由情緒不能出現在我們的倫理觀
04:54
in the ethical sphere, in the philosophical mystery of what we are.
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或像哲學般地解釋我們是誰
04:58
So I think emotion is a dimension
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我認為情緒是一種維度
05:01
that is important to introduce into city space, into city life.
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把情緒帶進城市空間和城市生活中是非常重要的
05:05
And of course, we are all about the struggle of emotions.
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當然,情緒會有所衝突
05:08
And I think that is what makes the world a wondrous place.
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我認為這讓世界變得美好
05:11
And of course, the confrontation of the cool, the unemotional with emotion,
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冷酷和情緒化之間的對峙
05:15
is a conversation that I think
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是一個城市中
05:17
cities themselves have fostered.
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所兼容的對話
05:19
I think that is the progress of cities.
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我認為這是城市的進步
05:21
It's not only the forms of cities,
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不只是城市形態的進步而已
05:23
but the fact that they incarnate emotions,
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這些具體化的情緒
05:25
not just of those who build them,
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不只是來自建築工人
05:27
but of those who live there as well.
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也來自居民的情緒
05:29
Inexplicable versus understood. You know, too often we want to understand everything.
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難以言表與理解。我們往往想理解所有事
05:32
But architecture is not the language of words.
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但建築不是一種有文字的語言
05:35
It's a language. But it is not a language that can be reduced
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它是一種語言,但不是一種能被簡化為
05:39
to a series of programmatic notes that we can verbally write.
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文字來表達的語言
05:42
Too many buildings that you see outside that are so banal
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外面有許多平庸的建築
05:44
tell you a story, but the story is very short,
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它們也會說故事,但大多很短
05:47
which says, "We have no story to tell you."
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它說 “我無話可說”
05:49
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:50
So the important thing actually,
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重要的是
05:52
is to introduce the actual architectural dimensions,
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要介紹真正的建築各個面相
05:55
which might be totally inexplicable in words,
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是不是能用言語陳述的
05:58
because they operate in proportions,
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因為這語言是以比例
06:01
in materials, in light.
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材質,光線組成的
06:03
They connect themselves into various sources,
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它們以不同元素連成一種
06:06
into a kind of complex vector matrix
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複雜的向量矩陣
06:08
that isn't really frontal
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它不是平鋪直述
06:11
but is really embedded in the lives,
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但深入我們的生活
06:13
and in the history of a city, and of a people.
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深入城市和居民的歷史
06:16
So again, the notion that a building should just be explicit
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那些認為建築應該直截了當的想法
06:19
I think is a false notion,
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我認為是錯誤的
06:21
which has reduced architecture into banality.
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它會把建築簡化為平庸
06:23
Hand versus the computer.
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手繪與電腦
06:25
Of course, what would we be without computers?
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當然,今日誰能不用電腦呢?
06:27
Our whole practice depends on computing.
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我們這個行業是依賴電腦的
06:29
But the computer should not just be the glove of the hand;
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但電腦應該只是手套
06:33
the hand should really be the driver of the computing power.
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手才是手套後面真正賜予電腦力量的東西
06:37
Because I believe that the hand
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因為我相信手
06:39
in all its primitive, in all its physiological obscurity,
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在原始、複雜的生理機能背後
06:44
has a source, though the source is unknown,
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仍然有種力量,雖然我們不知從何而來
06:47
though we don't have to be mystical about it.
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我們不需要故作神秘
06:49
We realize that the hand has been given us
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我們知道手是由
06:52
by forces that are beyond our own autonomy.
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一種超越我們能力的力量所賜予
06:55
And I think when I draw drawings
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我認為當我繪圖時
06:58
which may imitate the computer, but are not computer drawings --
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可以畫得很像電腦畫的,但實際上不是
07:01
drawings that can come from sources
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這手繪圖像是出自於
07:03
that are completely not known, not normal, not seen,
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一種未見,未知,無解的力量
07:07
yet the hand -- and that's what I really, to all of you who are working --
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但是手 -- 我想告訴你們的是,在這個領域工作的你們 --
07:11
how can we make the computer respond to our hand
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要如何讓電腦回應我們的手
07:15
rather than the hand responding to the computer.
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而不是手回應電腦
07:18
I think that's part of what the complexity of architecture is.
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我想這也是建築複雜的一部分
07:22
Because certainly we have gotten used to the propaganda
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因為我們都習慣認為
07:26
that the simple is the good. But I don't believe it.
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簡單是好的觀念,但我卻不這麼想
07:28
Listening to all of you, the complexity of thought,
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今天聽各位演講,這些複雜的思考
07:31
the complexity of layers of meaning is overwhelming.
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這些意含的層次是驚人的
07:34
And I think we shouldn't shy away in architecture,
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而我認為我們不應該忽略建築學這個領域
07:37
You know, brain surgery, atomic theory,
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腦科手術、原子論
07:40
genetics, economics
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遺傳學、經濟學
07:43
are complex complex fields.
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都是一些非常複雜的領域
07:45
There is no reason that architecture should shy away
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建築學沒有理由被忽略
07:47
and present this illusory world of the simple.
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它不是呈現一個虛假的簡單世界
07:50
It is complex. Space is complex.
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世界是複雜的,空間是複雜的
07:52
Space is something that folds out of itself into completely new worlds.
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空間將自己摺疊成一個新世界
07:56
And as wondrous as it is,
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多神奇阿
07:58
it cannot be reduced to a kind of simplification
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它不能被簡化成那些
08:01
that we have often come to be admired.
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我們往往過分讚揚的作品
08:03
And yet, our lives are complex.
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我們的生活是複雜的
08:05
Our emotions are complex.
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我們的情緒是複雜的
08:07
Our intellectual desires are complex.
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我們對知識的慾望是複雜的
08:09
So I do believe that architecture as I see it
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所以我相信建築應該
08:12
needs to mirror that complexity in every single space that we have,
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反應那些環繞我們的複雜的生活和空間
08:16
in every intimacy that we possess.
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在我們所有的親密性中
08:18
Of course that means that architecture is political.
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這代表著建築是政治的
08:21
The political is not an enemy of architecture.
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政治不是建築的敵人
08:23
The politeama is the city. It's all of us together.
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政治是城市,是我們所有人
08:26
And I've always believed that the act of architecture,
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我一直相信建築本身
08:28
even a private house, when somebody else will see it, is a political act,
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就算是私人住宅,當有人見到它,它便成為一個政治行為
08:32
because it will be visible to others.
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因為他人也可以看見
08:34
And we live in a world which is connecting us more and more.
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而我們住在一個彼此越來越有關聯的世界
08:36
So again, the evasion of that sphere,
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但我們依舊逃避這個事實
08:40
which has been so endemic to that sort of pure architecture,
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而普遍的選擇一種純粹的建築
08:43
the autonomous architecture that is just an abstract object
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那些"自發的建築"看上去像個抽象物件
08:45
has never appealed to me.
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我對那些從來不感興趣
08:47
And I do believe that this interaction
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我相信與歷史產生
08:50
with the history, with history that is often very difficult,
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相互作用是困難的
08:54
to grapple with it, to create
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設法解決它
08:56
a position that is beyond our normal expectations and to create a critique.
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創造超越一般預設的立場及評判
09:02
Because architecture is also the asking of questions.
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因為建築不只是給答案
09:04
It's not only the giving of answers.
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同時也在發問
09:06
It's also, just like life, the asking of questions.
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正如人生一樣,不斷地發問
09:09
Therefore it is important that it be real.
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因此重要的是保持真實
09:11
You know we can simulate almost anything.
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我們幾乎可以模擬所有東西
09:13
But the one thing that can be ever simulated
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但有一件事是永遠不能模擬的
09:15
is the human heart, the human soul.
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便是人心和人的靈魂
09:18
And architecture is so closely intertwined with it
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建築和它們息息相關
09:20
because we are born somewhere and we die somewhere.
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因為我們生於建築,死於建築
09:23
So the reality of architecture is visceral. It's not intellectual.
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真正的建築出自內心,而不是來自知識
09:27
It's not something that comes to us from books and theories.
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不是來自書本或理論
09:30
It's the real that we touch -- the door, the window,
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而是來自我們可觸碰的真實。一扇門,一扇窗
09:34
the threshold, the bed --
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門檻,床
09:36
such prosaic objects. And yet,
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這些平凡的物件
09:38
I try, in every building, to take that virtual world,
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我試著在虛擬世界
09:40
which is so enigmatic and so rich,
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把這些深奧又多元的作品展示出來
09:43
and create something in the real world.
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然後在真實世界中把這些作品實體化
09:45
Create a space for an office,
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創造一個辦公環境
09:47
a space of sustainability
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一個永續空間
09:49
that really works between that virtuality
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存在於虛擬世界中
09:52
and yet can be realized as something real.
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也能在真實世界中存在
09:54
Unexpected versus habitual.
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意外與習慣
09:56
What is a habit? It's just a shackle for ourselves.
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習慣是什麼?不過是一個束縛
09:59
It's a self-induced poison.
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是一種我們自己造成的毒藥
10:01
So the unexpected is always unexpected.
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意外總是出人意料
10:03
You know, it's true, the cathedrals, as unexpected,
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就像大教堂,是意外
10:06
will always be unexpected.
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永遠是意想不到的
10:08
You know Frank Gehry's buildings, they will continue to be unexpected in the future.
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就像弗蘭克蓋裡的建築,將繼續在今後帶給我們驚歎
10:11
So not the habitual architecture that instills in us
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而不是那些我們早已習慣的建築形態
10:14
the false sort of stability,
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虛假的穩定
10:16
but an architecture that is full of tension,
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而是充滿張力的建築形態
10:19
an architecture that goes beyond itself
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一個超越自己
10:22
to reach a human soul and a human heart,
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能感動心靈的建築
10:24
and that breaks out of the shackles of habits.
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它打破古舊習慣的束縛
10:27
And of course habits are enforced by architecture.
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當然建築也加強了我們的習慣
10:30
When we see the same kind of architecture
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當我們日復一日見到同樣的建築
10:32
we become immured in that world of those angles,
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我們會開始習慣於從這個角度看世界
10:35
of those lights, of those materials.
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這些光線,這些材質
10:37
We think the world really looks like our buildings.
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我們開始相信世界就像我們看到的這些建築一樣
10:40
And yet our buildings are pretty much limited by the techniques and wonders
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但這些建築卻受限於創造者的
10:44
that have been part of them.
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技術和想像力
10:46
So again, the unexpected which is also the raw.
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因此,意外就是原始
10:49
And I often think of the raw and the refined.
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我時常想到原始和精緻
10:51
What is raw? The raw, I would say
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原始是什麼?原始就是
10:53
is the naked experience, untouched by luxury,
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一種純淨的經驗,不被奢華
10:56
untouched by expensive materials,
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和昂貴的材質影響
10:58
untouched by the kind of refinement
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不被那些高度文明
11:00
that we associate with high culture.
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所認同的那些精緻珍品影響
11:03
So the rawness, I think, in space,
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空間裡的原始
11:06
the fact that sustainability can actually, in the future
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在未來可以把永續的概念
11:09
translate into a raw space,
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變成原始空間
11:11
a space that isn't decorated,
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一個不經裝飾的空間
11:13
a space that is not mannered in any source,
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一個不經矯飾的空間
11:16
but a space that might be cool in terms of its temperature,
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一個涼爽的空間
11:20
might be refractive to our desires.
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反應著我們所期望的
11:23
A space that doesn't always follow us
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一個不會像一條訓練良好的狗
11:26
like a dog that has been trained to follow us,
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一樣跟隨著我們的空間
11:29
but moves ahead into directions of demonstrating
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而是帶領我們
11:32
other possibilities, other experiences,
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示範著其它的可能性、其它的經驗
11:34
that have never been part of the vocabulary of architecture.
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發掘那些在建築史上從未使用的
11:39
And of course that juxtaposition is of great interest to me
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交叉重疊也是我的興趣
11:42
because it creates a kind of a spark of new energy.
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因為它創造一種新的能量
11:46
And so I do like something which is pointed, not blunt,
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而且我也喜歡尖銳,而不是遲鈍的
11:49
something which is focused on reality,
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那些專注於真實的
11:52
something that has the power, through its leverage,
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那些力量飽滿的,藉著它來影響
11:55
to transform even a very small space.
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就算只是一個小地方
11:57
So architecture maybe is not so big, like science,
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建築可能不像科學那樣偉大
12:00
but through its focal point
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但藉著這個焦點
12:03
it can leverage in an Archimedian way
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可以產生一種阿基米德式的槓桿效應
12:05
what we think the world is really about.
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改變我們對世界的看法
12:07
And often it takes just a building
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往往我們只需要一個建築
12:09
to change our experience of what could be done, what has been done,
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就能改變我們對過去歷史和未來可能性的看法
12:13
how the world has remained both in between stability and instability.
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甚至瞭解世界如何存在於穩定和震盪中
12:18
And of course buildings have their shapes.
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當然建築都有它們各自的形態
12:21
Those shapes are difficult to change.
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這些形態是很難改變的
12:23
And yet, I do believe that in every social space,
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但我仍然相信在所有社交空間
12:25
in every public space,
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在所有公共空間裡
12:27
there is a desire to communicate more
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都有一種想要溝通的慾望
12:29
than just that blunt thought, that blunt technique,
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而不是模糊的想法,模糊的技術
12:33
but something that pinpoints, and can point in various directions
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是能明確指出不同方向的
12:37
forward, backward, sideways and around.
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是要前進、後退、左右或是環繞
12:40
So that is indeed what is memory.
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這是一個共同的記憶
12:43
So I believe that my main interest is to memory.
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我相信我最大的興趣便是記憶
12:47
Without memory we would be amnesiacs.
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沒有記憶我們就成了失憶者
12:49
We would not know which way we were going,
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我們會忘記我們的前進的方向
12:51
and why we are going where we're going.
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以及我們選擇這個方向的原因
12:53
So I've been never interested in the forgettable reuse,
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所以我對那些過目即忘的再製品從來不感興趣
12:58
rehashing of the same things over and over again,
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把那些做過的事反覆地重新排列
13:01
which, of course, get accolades of critics.
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當然,它們能得到評論家的讚揚
13:03
Critics like the performance to be repeated again and again the same way.
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評論家總是喜歡那些一再重複的演出
13:07
But I rather play something
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但我寧可演奏一些
13:09
completely unheard of,
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前所未有的音符
13:11
and even with flaws,
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就算有瑕疵
13:13
than repeat the same thing over and over which has been hollowed
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也不要重複那些被反覆演奏的樂章
13:15
by its meaninglessness.
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它們毫無意義而且空洞
13:17
So again, memory is the city, memory is the world.
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記憶組成城市,記憶組成世界
13:20
Without the memory there would be no story to tell.
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沒有記憶,便沒有值得訴說的故事
13:22
There would be nowhere to turn.
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也無路可走
13:24
The memorable, I think, is really our world, what we think the world is.
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那值得記憶的,是我們的世界,我們對世界的觀感
13:28
And it's not only our memory,
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那不只是我們的記憶
13:30
but those who remember us,
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還有那些記憶我們的人
13:33
which means that architecture is not mute.
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建築不是沉默的
13:35
It's an art of communication.
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它是一門溝通的藝術
13:37
It tells a story. The story can reach into obscure desires.
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它訴說一個故事。這故事可以碰觸到我們隱藏的欲望
13:41
It can reach into sources that are not explicitly available.
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碰觸那些平日接觸不到的資源
13:44
It can reach into millennia
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碰觸那些被埋葬已久的
13:47
that have been buried,
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千年記憶
13:49
and return them in a just and unexpected equity.
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讓它們回到一個正確而平等的地位
13:53
So again, I think the notion that
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我想,我從來不被
13:55
the best architecture is silent has never appealed to me.
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沉默的建築所吸引
13:59
Silence maybe is good for a cemetery but not for a city.
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一個沉默的墳場是好的,但沉默的城市是不好的
14:02
Cities should be full of vibrations, full of sound, full of music.
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城市應該活躍,充滿音樂和聲音
14:05
And that indeed is the architectural mission
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這是建築的任務
14:07
that I believe is important,
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我相信這是重要的
14:09
is to create spaces that are vibrant,
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去創造這樣一個活躍的
14:11
that are pluralistic,
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多元的空間
14:13
that can transform the most prosaic activities,
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能夠把看似普通的活動
14:16
and raise them to a completely different expectation.
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變得出乎意料
14:18
Create a shopping center, a swimming place
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能把一個購物商場,一個游泳池
14:20
that is more like a museum than like entertainment.
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做得更像博物館,而非娛樂場所
14:23
And these are our dreams.
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這是我們的夢想
14:25
And of course risk. I think architecture should be risky.
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我認為建築應該冒險
14:29
You know it costs a lot of money and so on, but yes,
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當然這要花很多金錢和精力
14:31
it should not play it safe.
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但不應該保守
14:33
It should not play it safe, because if it plays it safe
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我們不應該因為保守而保守
14:36
it's not moving us in a direction that we want to be.
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這不能帶我們前進去我們想去的方向
14:40
And I think, of course,
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當然
14:42
risk is what underlies the world.
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冒險是世界的基礎
14:44
World without risk would not be worth living.
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沒有冒險的世界是不值得活的
14:47
So yes, I do believe that the risk we take in every building.
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是的,我相信在每一個建築裡冒的險都是值得的
14:51
Risks to create spaces that have never been cantilevered to that extent.
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冒險去做那些從未懸吊的這樣遠的空間
14:55
Risks of spaces that have never been
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冒險去做一個前所未有的
14:57
so dizzying,
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迷人燦爛的
15:00
as they should be, for a pioneering city.
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像所有城市的先驅
15:03
Risks that really move architecture
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那些真正讓建築進步的冒險
15:06
even with all its flaws, into a space which is much better
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就算有它的缺陷,還是好過那些
15:09
that the ever again repeated
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一直重複的
15:11
hollowness of a ready-made thing.
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空虛的現成品
15:14
And of course that is finally what I believe architecture to be.
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這就是我所相信的建築的意義
15:17
It's about space. It's not about fashion.
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這是關於空間,而不是關於時尚
15:19
It's not about decoration.
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也不是關於裝潢
15:21
It's about creating with minimal means
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只是希望創造一些
15:23
something which can not be repeated,
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不能被重複的
15:26
cannot be simulated in any other sphere.
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不能在其它地方被模擬的
15:28
And there of course is the space that we need to breathe,
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我們在那裡可以呼吸
15:32
is the space we need to dream.
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可以夢想
15:34
These are the spaces that are
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這些空間
15:36
not just luxurious spaces for some of us,
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不只是一些人的奢侈享受
15:39
but are important for everybody in this world.
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而是對世上每個人都很重要的地方
15:41
So again, it's not about the changing fashions, changing theories.
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這無關時尚,或是改變理論
15:45
It's about carving out a space for trees.
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而是為樹木創造一個空間
15:48
It's carving out a space where nature can enter
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在空間中創造一個能夠迎接大自然的地方
15:50
the domestic world of a city.
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城市中的家居空間
15:52
A space where something which has never seen a light of day
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一個從未見光的空間
15:56
can enter into the inner workings of a density.
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可以進入城市的密度
16:00
And I think that is really the nature of architecture.
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這就是建築的本質
16:04
Now I am a believer in democracy.
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我支持民主
16:06
I don't like beautiful buildings
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我不喜歡那些極權國家
16:08
built for totalitarian regimes.
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所建造的美麗建築
16:10
Where people cannot speak, cannot vote, cannot do anything.
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那裡的人民不能自由發言,不能投票,什麼也不能做
16:12
We too often admire those buildings. We think they are beautiful.
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我們太常讚揚那些建築,認為它們很美麗
16:15
And yet when I think of the poverty of society
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當我想到這些社會的貧窮
16:17
which doesn't give freedom to its people,
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它們無法還給人民自由的狀況
16:19
I don't admire those buildings.
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我就無法讚揚這些建築
16:21
So democracy, as difficult as it is, I believe in it.
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雖然民主並不容易,我仍然相信它
16:23
And of course, at Ground Zero what else?
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"零地帶"還剩什麼(世貿中心的倒塌現場)
16:26
It's such a complex project.
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這是一個很複雜的計劃
16:28
It's emotional. There is so many interests.
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很多個人情緒,很多人感興趣
16:30
It's political. There is so many parties to this project.
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它也是政治,許多人參與這個項目
16:34
There is so many interests. There's money. There's political power.
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他們都為了不同的原因,有金錢和權力參與其中
16:36
There are emotions of the victims.
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有受害者家屬的情緒
16:38
And yet, in all its messiness, in all its difficulties,
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但在這些困難和混亂中
16:42
I would not have liked somebody to say,
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我不希望有人說
16:44
"This is the tabula rasa, mister architect -- do whatever you want."
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“這是一張白紙,建築師。自由發揮吧”
16:47
I think nothing good will come out of that.
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我不認為這樣能產出優秀的作品
16:49
I think architecture is about consensus.
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我認為建築是一種共識
16:51
And it is about the dirty word "compromise." Compromise is not bad.
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這都和“妥協”有關,其實妥協並不是壞事
16:55
Compromise, if it's artistic,
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妥協,如果那是具藝術性的
16:57
if it is able to cope with its strategies --
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如果那和策略的配合有關
17:00
and there is my first sketch and the last rendering --
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這是我的第一個草圖,左邊是手繪圖
17:02
it's not that far away.
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兩者相差不大
17:04
And yet, compromise, consensus,
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但是,妥協,共識
17:06
that is what I believe in.
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是我所相信的
17:08
And Ground Zero, despite all its difficulties, it's moving forward.
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"零地帶",無論過程多麼困難,它正在前進
17:11
It's difficult. 2011, 2013. Freedom Tower, the memorial.
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這的確困難。 2011年、2013年,自由塔,紀念館
17:16
And that is where I end.
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我就說到這裡
17:18
I was inspired when I came here as an immigrant
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當我以移民身份,像無數人一樣坐船
17:20
on a ship like millions of others,
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來到這裡的時候,我被啟發了
17:22
looking at America from that point of view.
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從這個角度看美國
17:25
This is America. This is liberty.
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這是美國,這是自由
17:27
This is what we dream about. Its individuality,
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這就是我們夢想的,它的獨立
17:29
demonstrated in the skyline. It's resilience.
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從地平線描繪出來的,它的彈性
17:32
And finally, it's the freedom that America represents,
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這就是美國所代表的自由意義
17:34
not just to me, as an immigrant, but to everyone in the world. Thank you.
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不只是身為移民的我,還有世界上每個人,謝謝大家
17:38
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
17:43
Chris Anderson: I've got a question.
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我有一個問題
17:45
So have you come to peace
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所以你已經不再在意
17:47
with the process that happened at Ground Zero
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"零地帶"的發展過程中所發生的一切嗎
17:50
and the loss of the original, incredible design that you came up with?
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你不介意失去你原本出色的設計嗎?
17:53
Daniel Libeskind: Look. We have to cure ourselves
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我們必須要糾正
17:57
of the notion that we are authoritarian,
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自身的獨裁
17:59
that we can determine everything that happens.
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告訴自己我們不可能控制每件事情
18:01
We have to rely on others, and shape the process in the best way possible.
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我們必須互相信賴,然後找出最好的解決方法
18:05
I came from the Bronx. I was taught not to be a loser,
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我在布朗克斯長大,在成長中我學會了不做輸家
18:08
not to be somebody who just gives up in a fight.
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亦不會在爭鬥中輕易放棄
18:10
You have to fight for what you believe. You don't always win
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你必須爭取你相信的。你並不能總是贏得
18:12
everything you want to win. But you can steer the process.
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你所有要贏得的。但你能引導這個過程
18:15
And I believe that what will be built at Ground Zero
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我亦認為將建在"零地帶"的設計
18:18
will be meaningful, will be inspiring,
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將是有意義的,將是鼓舞人心的
18:21
will tell other generations of the sacrifices,
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將能告訴後代 911 事件的犧牲
18:23
of the meaning of this event.
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和含意
18:25
Not just for New York, but for the world.
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不止是對於紐約,而是對整個世界
18:27
Chris Anderson: Thank you so much, Daniel Libeskind.
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主持人 Chris Anderson: 非常感謝
18:29
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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