Martine Rothblatt: My daughter, my wife, our robot, and the quest for immortality

翻译人员: Jennifer Zhang 校对人员: Hong Li

Chris Anderson: So I guess what we're going to do is

克里斯 安德森：我想我们这样

we're going to talk about your life,

我们先谈谈你的生活，

and using some pictures that you shared with me.

跟大家分享一下 你之前给我看的一些照片。

And I think we should start right here with this one.

咱们就从这张开始。

Okay, now who is this?

这位是谁？

Martine Rothblatt: This is me with our oldest son Eli.

马蒂娜 罗斯布拉特：这是我 和我的大儿子以利。

He was about age five.

他那时大约五岁。

This is taken in Nigeria

这是在尼日利亚照的，

right after having taken the Washington, D.C. bar exam.

就在我刚刚参加完华盛顿特区的 律师资格考试。

CA: Okay. But this doesn't really look like a Martine.

克：好的。但这看上去不太像马蒂娜。

MR: Right. That was myself as a male, the way I was brought up.

马：是的。那时我还是男性， 我是作为男性出生长大。

那是在我做完变性手术， 从马丁变为马蒂娜之前。

Before I transitioned from male to female and Martin to Martine.

CA: You were brought up Martin Rothblatt.

克：你是以马丁 罗斯布拉特的身份长大的。

MR: Correct.

马：是的。

CA: And about a year after this picture, you married a beautiful woman.

克：在拍完这张照片之后大概一年， 你迎娶了一位美丽的姑娘。

Was this love at first sight? What happened there?

是一见钟情么？ 当时是什么情况？

MR: It was love at the first sight.

马：的确是一见钟情。

I saw Bina at a discotheque in Los Angeles,

我是在洛杉矶的一个 迪斯科舞厅遇见的碧娜。

and we later began living together,

后来我们住在了一起，

but the moment I saw her, I saw just an aura of energy around her.

但从我见到她的那一刻起， 我就看到她所带着的能量。

I asked her to dance.

我请她跳舞。

She said she saw an aura of energy around me.

她说她也看到我所带的能量。

I was a single male parent. She was a single female parent.

我那时是个单身爸爸， 她是个单身妈妈。

We showed each other our kids' pictures,

我们给彼此看了孩子的照片，

and we've been happily married for a third of a century now.

现在我们已经在婚姻里 幸福的度过了1/3个世纪。

(Applause)

（掌声）

CA: And at the time, you were kind of this hotshot entrepreneur,

克：那时候你算是个炙手可热的创业者，

working with satellites.

做卫星方面的工作。

I think you had two successful companies,

你那时已经有了两个成功的公司，

and then you started addressing this problem

然后你开始新的挑战，

of how could you use satellites to revolutionize radio.

思考如何通过卫星来变革广播。

Tell us about that.

给我们讲讲这个。

MR: Right. I always loved space technology,

马：是的。我一直热爱太空科技，

and satellites, to me, are sort of like the canoes that our ancestors

卫星对我而言，像是我们祖先

first pushed out into the water.

第一次推到水里的独木舟。

So it was exciting for me to be part of the navigation

能够在浩瀚星海遨游，

of the oceans of the sky,

特别让我激动。

and as I developed different types of satellite communication systems,

所以我开发了多种卫星通讯系统，

the main thing I did was to launch bigger and more powerful satellites,

主要致力于发射 更大，更强的卫星，

the consequence of which was that the receiving antennas

这样一来，接收天线

could be smaller and smaller,

就可以越来越小，

and after going through direct television broadcasting,

在电视直播技术出现后，

I had the idea that if we could make a more powerful satellite,

我想到，如果能制造一颗 更加强大的卫星，

the receiving dish could be so small

接收盘就可以做的特别小，

that it would just be a section of a parabolic dish,

尺寸只是抛物面反射器的一小部分，

a flat little plate embedded into the roof of an automobile,

小到可以装在汽车顶部，

and it would be possible to have nationwide satellite radio,

这样全国性的卫星广播就成为可能，

and that's Sirius XM today.

这就是今天的“天狼星XM卫星广播系统”。

CA: Wow. So who here has used Sirius?

克：哇。这里有人用过天狼星吗？

(Applause)

（掌声）

MR: Thank you for your monthly subscriptions.

马：谢谢你们每个月的会费。

(Laughter)

（掌声）

CA: So that succeeded despite all predictions at the time.

克：所以说，尽管那时有各种猜测， 但这件事成功了。

It was a huge commercial success,

是一次巨大的商业成功，

but soon after this, in the early 1990s,

但没过多久，在90年代初，

there was this big transition in your life and you became Martine.

你的生活发生了巨变， 你成为了马蒂娜。

MR: Correct. CA: So tell me, how did that happen?

马：是的。 克：能给我讲讲当时的情况吗？

MR: It happened in consultation with Bina and our four beautiful children,

马：我事先和碧娜以及 我们的四个可爱的孩子商量过

and I discussed with each of them

我和他们单独讨论的。

that I felt my soul was always female, and as a woman,

我一直觉得我的内心是女性，

but I was afraid people would laugh at me if I expressed it,

可我又担心如果表达出来 会被人笑话，

so I always kept it bottled up

所以我一直藏在心里

and just showed my male side.

只表现我男性的一面。

And each of them had a different take on this.

每个人的反应都不一样。

Bina said, "I love your soul,

碧娜说，“我爱你的灵魂，

and whether the outside is Martin and Martine,

至于外表上是马丁还是马蒂娜，

it doesn't it matter to me, I love your soul."

我不在乎，我爱的是你的灵魂。”

My son said, "If you become a woman, will you still be my father?"

我儿子说，“你变成女人后， 还是我爸爸吗？”

And I said, "Yes, I'll always be your father,"

我回答，“是，我永远是你的爸爸。“

and I'm still his father today.

我今天依然是他的父亲。

My youngest daughter did an absolutely brilliant five-year-old thing.

我的小女儿做了件特别棒的 五岁小孩做的事，

She told people, "I love my dad and she loves me."

她说，“我爱我爸爸，她也爱我。”

她对性别混淆什么的还挺接受。

So she had no problem with a gender blending whatsoever.

CA: And a couple years after this, you published this book:

克：那之后一两年， 你出版了这本书：

"The Apartheid of Sex."

”性别上的种族隔离“

What was your thesis in this book?

你这本书持什么论点呢？

MR: My thesis in this book is that there are seven billion people in the world,

马：我的论点是，世界上有70亿人口，

and actually, seven billion unique ways to express one's gender.

就有70亿种独特的方式来展现性别。

And while people may have the genitals of a male or a female,

尽管人类有男性和女性两种生殖器官，

the genitals don't determine your gender

但生殖器官并不决定你的性别

or even really your sexual identity.

甚至你真正的性别身份。

That's just a matter of anatomy

那是一个解剖学上的问题，

and reproductive tracts,

生殖道的问题，

and people could choose whatever gender they want

人应该对他们的性别有选择权

if they weren't forced by society into categories of either male or female

而不是被社会强行划分为男性或是女性

the way South Africa used to force people into categories of black or white.

就像南非过去把人划分为黑人和白人。

We know from anthropological science that race is fiction,

从人类学的角度上讲， 种族是虚构的，

even though racism is very, very real,

尽管种族主义是千真万确的存在，

and we now know from cultural studies

从文化研究的角度讲

that separate male or female genders is a constructed fiction.

男性和女性也是虚构的。

The reality is a gender fluidity

现实情况是性别是流动的，

that crosses the entire continuum from male to female.

是在男性与女性之间的 一个连续统一体。

CA: You yourself don't always feel 100 percent female.

克：你自己也并不是总是 百分之百感觉自己是女性

MR: Correct. I would say in some ways

马：对。从某种角度上说

I change my gender about as often as I change my hairstyle.

我在性别上的变换和 我发型的变换同样频繁。

CA: (Laughs) Okay, now, this is your gorgeous daughter, Jenesis.

克：（笑）好吧。 这是你美丽的女儿，吉纳塞斯。

And I guess she was about this age when something pretty terrible happened.

我猜她大概就是在这么大的时候 经历了一件可怕的事情。

MR: Yes, she was finding herself unable to walk up the stairs

马：对。她发现自己无法上楼

in our house to her bedroom,

回到自己的卧室。

and after several months of doctors,

看了几个月的医生以后，

she was diagnosed to have a rare, almost invariably fatal disease

她被确诊患了一种罕见的 基本上是致命的疾病

called pulmonary arterial hypertension.

叫做肺动脉高压。

CA: So how did you respond to that?

克：你当时做了些什么？

MR: Well, we first tried to get her to the best doctors we could.

马：我们首先尽力 为她找最好的医生。

We ended up at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

我们最终找到在华盛顿特区的 国家儿童医疗中心。

The head of pediatric cardiology

儿科心脏病部的主任

told us that he was going to refer her to get a lung transplant,

告诉我们他会帮她安排肺移植，

but not to hold out any hope,

但是希望不大，

because there are very few lungs available,

因为可移植的肺特别少，

especially for children.

尤其是小孩的。

He said that all people with this illness died,

他说所有得了这个病的人都去世了，

and if any of you have seen the film "Lorenzo's Oil,"

你们如果看过那个叫 “罗伦佐的油”的电影，

there's a scene when the protagonist

有一幕是主角从楼梯上滚下来，

kind of rolls down the stairway crying and bemoaning the fate of his son,

为他儿子的命运哭泣和哀叹，

and that's exactly how we felt about Jenesis.

我们当时对吉纳赛斯 的感受和他完全一样。

CA: But you didn't accept that as the limit of what you could do.

克：但你并没有放弃， 没有觉得已经无能为力。

You started trying to research and see if you could find a cure somehow.

你开始尝试做研究， 看你能不能找到一个治疗方法。

MR: Correct. She was in the intensive care ward for weeks at a time,

马：是的。她在重症监护室一住就是好几周，

and Bina and I would tag team to stay at the hospital

碧娜和我轮流在医院照看，

while the other watched the rest of the kids,

另一个在家照看其他孩子，

and when I was in the hospital and she was sleeping,

当我在医院值班时， 等吉纳赛斯睡着了之后，

I went to the hospital library.

我就跑去医院的图书馆。

I read every article that I could find on pulmonary hypertension.

我读了所有能找到的 关于肺动脉高压的文章。

I had not taken any biology, even in college,

我在上大学的时候都没有修过生物，

so I had to go from a biology textbook to a college-level textbook

所以我循序渐进， 从基础生物课本到大学课本，

and then medical textbook and the journal articles, back and forth,

到医学院课本，到期刊文章 这样反复来读，

and eventually I knew enough to think that it might be possible

在我了解了足够多的东西后， 我认为这个病

that somebody could find a cure.

是有可能治愈的。

So we started a nonprofit foundation.

于是我们成立了一个非盈利的基金会。

I wrote a description asking people to submit grants

我呼吁大家来捐款，

and we would pay for medical research.

所得款项会用于医学研究。

I became an expert on the condition -- doctors said to me, Martine,

我都成了这个病的专家了－ 医生们对我说，马蒂娜，

we really appreciate all the funding you've provided us,

我们真的很感激你提供的这些资金，

but we are not going to be able to find a cure in time

但我们恐怕不能及时的 找到治疗的方法

to save your daughter.

来挽救你女儿的生命。

However, there is a medicine

但是，有这样一种药

that was developed at the Burroughs Wellcome Company

是由伯勒斯威康公司研发的，

that could halt the progression of the disease,

它可能有一定疗效， 可以阻止病情恶化，

but Burroughs Wellcome has just been acquired by Glaxo Wellcome.

可是伯勒斯威康刚被 葛兰素威康收购了。

They made a decision not to develop

他们决定停止开发

any medicines for rare and orphan diseases,

治疗罕见病的药品，

and maybe you could use your expertise in satellite communications

或许你可以用你在 卫星通讯上的专长

to develop this cure for pulmonary hypertension.

来开发肺动脉高压的医治方法。

CA: So how on earth did you get access to this drug?

克：那你到底是怎么拿到这个药的呢？

MR: I went to Glaxo Wellcome

马：我去了葛兰素威康

and after three times being rejected and having the door slammed in my face

吃了三次闭门羹，

because they weren't going to out-license the drug

因为他们不愿意把药品许可证

to a satellite communications expert,

发给一个卫星通讯专家，

they weren't going to send the drug out to anybody at all,

其实是不想发给任何人，

and they thought I didn't have the expertise,

而且他们觉得 我没有这方面的专业知识，

finally I was able to persuade a small team of people to work with me

最后我说服了一小队人马跟我一起干，

and develop enough credibility.

赢得了一定的信誉。

I wore down their resistance,

我打消了他们的疑虑，

and they had no hope this drug would even work, by the way,

其实他们对这个药也没抱希望，

and they tried to tell me, "You're just wasting your time.

他们试图告诉我， “你是在浪费时间。

We're sorry about your daughter."

我们为你的女儿感到遗憾。”

But finally, for 25,000 dollars

但是最终，以25000美元的价格，

and agreement to pay 10 percent of any revenues we might ever get,

以及10%的收入分成，

they agreed to give me worldwide rights to this drug.

他们把这个药的全球使用权给了我。

CA: And so you put this drug on the market in a really brilliant way,

克：然后你非常聪明的把这个药推到了市场上，

by basically charging what it would take to make the economics work.

而且只收成本价。

MR: Oh yes, Chris, but this really wasn't a drug that I ended up --

马：是的，克里斯，但我 当时买下来的并不是个成品药－

after I wrote the check for 25,000,

我签了那两万五的支票后，

and I said, "Okay, where's the medicine for Jenesis?"

我说，“好吧，吉纳塞斯的药在哪儿呢？”

they said, "Oh, Martine, there's no medicine for Jenesis.

他们说，“哦，马蒂娜，吉纳塞斯的药就不存在。

This is just something we tried in rats."

我们只在老鼠身上试过这东西。”

And they gave me, like, a little plastic Ziploc bag

然后他们给我这个小的密封袋

of a small amount of powder.

里面有一点点粉末。

They said, "Don't give it to any human,"

他们说，“不要给人吃啊，”

and they gave me a piece of paper which said it was a patent,

然后给了我一张纸， 说是专利证书，

and from that, we had to figure out a way to make this medicine.

从那开始，我们得想办法把药生产出来。

A hundred chemists in the U.S. at the top universities

来自美国顶尖大学的多名化学家

all swore that little patent could never be turned into a medicine.

都不认为这个小小的专利能做成药。

If it was turned into a medicine, it could never be delivered

就算是做成药，也不可能售卖

because it had a half-life of only 45 minutes.

因为它的半衰期只有45分钟。

CA: And yet, a year or two later, you were there with a medicine

克：即使如此，在一两年之后， 你把它做成药了，

that worked for Jenesis.

而且还治好了吉纳塞斯。

MR: Chris, the astonishing thing is that this absolutely worthless

马：克里斯，令人意想不到的是， 那个毫无价值的

piece of powder

小小粉末

that had the sparkle of a promise of hope for Jenesis

曾经是吉纳塞斯的唯一希望

is not only keeping Jenesis and other people alive today,

如今不但救了吉纳塞斯和其他人的命，

but produces almost a billion and a half dollars a year in revenue.

更创造了近15亿美元的年收入。

(Applause)

（掌声）

克：太棒了。

CA: So here you go.

So you took this company public, right?

然后你的公司上市了，是吗？

And made an absolute fortune.

还赚了大钱。

And how much have you paid Glaxo, by the way, after that 25,000?

那除了那两万五之外， 你一共付了葛兰素多少钱？

MR: Yeah, well, every year we pay them 10 percent of 1.5 billion,

马：喔，每年我们付15亿的百分之十，

150 million dollars, last year 100 million dollars.

就是一亿五千万，去年是一亿。

It's the best return on investment they ever received. (Laughter)

是他们有史以来最赚的一笔投资。（笑）

CA: And the best news of all, I guess,

克：我猜最好的好消息

is this.

还是这个。

MR: Yes. Jenesis is an absolutely brilliant young lady.

马：是的。吉纳塞斯是个出色的姑娘。

She's alive, healthy today at 30.

她今年30岁了，身体健康。

You see me, Bina and Jenesis there.

那是我，碧娜和吉纳塞斯。

The most amazing thing about Jenesis

对于吉纳塞斯而言最棒的是

is that while she could do anything with her life,

她可以尽情选择做任何事，

and believe me, if you grew up your whole life with people

相信我，如果你 从小到大都听人说，

in your face saying that you've got a fatal disease,

你得了一种致命疾病，

I would probably run to Tahiti and just not want to run into anybody again.

我大概会跑到大溪地去，躲开这些人。

But instead she chooses to work in United Therapeutics.

但她却选择在“联合治疗”公司工作。

She says she wants to do all she can to help other people

她说她要尽力帮助其他

with orphan diseases get medicines,

患有罕见疾病的人开发药物，

and today, she's our project leader for all telepresence activities,

如今，她是我们所有远程活动的项目负责人，

where she helps digitally unite the entire company to work together

以数字化的方式整合公司，开展合作

to find cures for pulmonary hypertension.

寻找肺动脉高压的治愈方式。

CA: But not everyone who has this disease has been so fortunate.

克：但不是每个患有这种病的人都这么幸运。

There are still many people dying, and you are tackling that too. How?

还是有很多人死于这个病，而你也在着力 解决这个难题。你是怎么做的？

MR: Exactly, Chris. There's some 3,000 people a year in the United States alone,

马：对级了，克里斯。 仅在美国每年就大约有三千人，

perhaps 10 times that number worldwide,

而全世界每年大约有三万人，

who continue to die of this illness

死于这种疾病。

because the medicines slow down the progression

因为药物只能减缓病情恶化

but they don't halt it.

并不能完全治愈。

The only cure for pulmonary hypertension, pulmonary fibrosis,

唯一能治愈肺动脉高压，肺纤维化，

cystic fibrosis, emphysema,

囊性纤维化，肺气肿，

COPD, what Leonard Nimoy just died of,

慢性阻塞性肺病 ——伦纳德 尼莫尔刚刚死于这个病，

is a lung transplant,

只有进行肺移植，

but sadly, there are only enough available lungs for 2,000 people

但可悲的是，在美国， 每年可用于移植的肺

in the U.S. a year to get a lung transplant,

只够两千人进行手术，

whereas nearly a half million people a year

而每年有将近五十万人

die of end-stage lung failure.

死于晚期肺功能衰竭。

CA: So how can you address that?

克：你打算如何解决这个问题？

MR: So I conceptualize the possibility

马：我在思考这样一种可能性，

that just like we keep cars and planes

我们之所以能够让汽车，飞机，

and buildings going forever

建筑永久存在，

with an unlimited supply of building parts and machine parts,

是因为我们能够无限制的提供 楼房机器的零件，

why can't we create an unlimited supply of transplantable organs

我们为何不制造无限量的 可移植器官

to keep people living indefinitely,

来让人类永生呢，

and especially people with lung disease.

特别是那些患有肺病的人。

So we've teamed up with the decoder of the human genome, Craig Venter,

所以我们与人类基因组的 解码专家克雷格·文特尔

and the company he founded

以及他与“神秘奖”公司创始人，

with Peter Diamandis, the founder of the X Prize,

彼得·迪曼蒂斯共同组建的公司合作

to genetically modify

来从基因上改变

the pig genome

猪的基因组

so that the pig's organs will not be rejected by the human body

这样人的身体就不会对 猪的器官产生排异反应

and thereby to create an unlimited supply

这样来创造无限数量的

of transplantable organs.

可移植器官。

We do this through our company, United Therapeutics.

我们通过我们的公司“联合治疗”来做这件事。

CA: So you really believe that within, what, a decade,

克：而且你坚信在十年之内，

that this shortage of transplantable lungs maybe be cured, through these guys?

可以以此来解决可供移植的肺的短缺问题。

MR: Absolutely, Chris.

马：绝对的，克里斯。

I'm as certain of that as I was of the success that we've had

我非常确定，正如我以前

坚信电视直播和天狼星卫星广播 会成功一样。

with direct television broadcasting, Sirius XM.

It's actually not rocket science.

这其实没有那么高深。

It's straightforward engineering away one gene after another.

就是一个个基因进行搭建。

We're so lucky to be born in the time that sequencing genomes

我们很幸运处于这样 一个时代，基因组测序

is a routine activity,

是一件很平常的事，

and the brilliant folks at Synthetic Genomics

“合成基因”公司那些杰出的科学家们

are able to zero in on the pig genome,

能够专注研究猪的基因组，

find exactly the genes that are problematic, and fix them.

准确的找到有问题的基因， 然后修复它们。

CA: But it's not just bodies that -- though that is amazing.

克：而且不仅仅是身体—— 当然这已经相当神奇了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

It's not just long-lasting bodies that are of interest to you now.

你已经不光满足于 身体上的长寿。

It's long-lasting minds.

还想要思想永存。

And I think this graph for you says something quite profound.

我想这幅图对你而言意义深远。

What does this mean?

它讲的是什么？

MR: What this graph means, and it comes from Ray Kurzweil,

马：这幅图是雷·克兹维尔的作品， 意思是说

is that the rate of development in computer processing

计算机处理的发展速度

hardware, firmware and software,

无论是硬件，固件，还是软件，

has been advancing along a curve

都是一个曲线发展的过程

such that by the 2020s, as we saw in earlier presentations today,

到2020年代，就像我们 在今天早些时候的演讲中看到的，

there will be information technology

信息技术将发展到很高水平

that processes information and the world around us

（计算机）处理信息和应对外界反应的速度

at the same rate as a human mind.

将与人脑毫无二致。

CA: And so that being so, you're actually getting ready for this world

克：因此你现在已经开始着手准备

by believing that we will soon be able to, what,

因为你相信我们很快就能，

actually take the contents of our brains and somehow preserve them forever?

将我们大脑里的东西 永久保存下来？

How do you describe that?

给我们解释一下。

MR: Well, Chris, what we're working on is creating a situation

马：克里斯，我们现在做的这个 是在创造一个环境

where people can create a mind file,

在那里人们可以创建一个思维文档，

and a mind file is the collection of their mannerisms, personality,

这个思维文档收集 人们的举止，个性，

recollection, feelings,

回忆，感觉，

beliefs, attitudes and values,

信仰，态度及价值观，

everything that we've poured today into Google, into Amazon, into Facebook,

我们今天一股脑儿告诉 谷歌，亚马逊，脸书的一切信息，

and all of this information stored there will be able, in the next couple decades,

所有信息都存储在那里， 几十年后，

once software is able to recapitulate consciousness,

当软件技术（发展到）可以 捕捉意识，

be able to revive the consciousness which is imminent in our mind file.

我们就可以从思维文档中 还原出我们的意识。

CA: Now you're not just messing around with this.

克：你并没有在开玩笑，

You're serious. I mean, who is this?

而是认真的。这是谁？

MR: This is a robot version of my beloved spouse, Bina.

马：这是我的爱人碧娜的机器人版本。

And we call her Bina 48.

她叫碧娜48.

She was programmed by Hanson Robotics out of Texas.

她是由德克萨斯的 汉森机器人公司制造的。

There's the centerfold from National Geographic magazine

这是（发表）在国家地理杂志 中心插页（的一幅照片）

with one of her caregivers,

（碧娜）和她的护理人员在一起，

and she roams the web

她在上网

and has hundreds of hours of Bina's mannerisms, personalities.

她拥有几百小时 有关碧娜举止和个性（的信息）。

She's kind of like a two-year-old kid,

她像是个两岁的小孩，

but she says things that blow people away,

但她讲的话往往出人意表，

best expressed by perhaps

可能最好的表达

a New York Times Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Amy Harmon

来自纽约时报的 普利策获奖记者艾米·哈蒙

who says her answers are often frustrating,

她说，她的回答经常令人哭笑不得，

but other times as compelling as those of any flesh person she's interviewed.

但有时又精彩绝伦， 丝毫不逊色于她采访过的有血有肉的真人

CA: And is your thinking here, part of your hope here, is that

克：你认为，或者你希望，

this version of Bina can in a sense live on forever, or some future upgrade

这个版本的碧娜，或者将来升级版本的碧娜，

可以永生？

to this version can live on forever?

MR: Yes. Not just Bina, but everybody.

马：对，但不仅仅是碧娜，所有人。

You know, it costs us virtually nothing to store our mind files

实际上，将我们的 思维文档保存的成本几乎为零

on Facebook, Instagram, what-have-you.

你可以上传到脸书，Instagram，或者其他地方。

Social media is I think one of the most extraordinary inventions of our time,

我认为社交媒体是我们 这个时代最杰出的发明之一，

and as apps become available that will allow us

随着客户端应用的发展，

Siri一类的应用会越来越好，

to out-Siri Siri, better and better,

and develop consciousness operating systems,

并进一步发展出 具有意识的操作系统，

everybody in the world, billions of people,

世界上的每一个人， 数十亿的人，

will be able to develop mind clones of themselves

可以复制自己的思维

that will have their own life on the web.

在网上拥有生命。

CA: So the thing is, Martine,

克：问题是，马蒂纳，

that in any normal conversation, this would sound stark-staring mad,

如果我们仅仅是在聊天（而不是TED Talk）， 这些事听起来就太疯狂了，

but in the context of your life, what you've done,

但结合你的生活， 你取得的成就，

some of the things we've heard this week,

我们这礼拜所听到的其他演讲，

the constructed realities that our minds give,

人类思维所构建的现实，

I mean, you wouldn't bet against it.

我们没法说它不可能实现。

MR: Well, I think it's really nothing coming from me.

马：是，其实我并没有做什么。

If anything, I'm perhaps a bit of a communicator of activities

如果有的话，我只是做了些牵线搭桥的事

that are being undertaken by the greatest companies

为那些伟大的公司牵线搭桥

in China, Japan, India, the U.S., Europe.

它们来自中国，日本，印度， 美国，欧洲。

There are tens of millions of people working on writing code

有上千万的人在编写代码

that expresses more and more aspects of our human consciousness,

意图更全面地描述人类意识

and you don't have to be a genius to see that all these threads

普通人也能预测到， 这些线索最终

are going to come together and ultimately create human consciousness,

会汇聚起来，最终形成人类意识，

and it's something we'll value.

这对我们而言很重要。

There are so many things to do in this life,

人的一生中有太多的事要做，

and if we could have a simulacrum, a digital doppelgänger of ourselves

如果我们有一个仿真的自己

that helps us process books, do shopping,

来帮助我们读书，购物，

be our best friends,

成为我们的好朋友，

I believe our mind clones, these digital versions of ourselves,

我相信我们的思维克隆体， 数字版的我们，

will ultimately be our best friends,

最终会成为我们最好的朋友，

对我自己和碧娜个人而言，

and for me personally and Bina personally,

we love each other like crazy.

我们疯狂的爱着对方。

Each day, we are always saying, like,

每一天，我们都要说，

"Wow, I love you even more than 30 years ago.

“哇，我甚至比30年前还要爱你。

And so for us, the prospect of mind clones

所以对我们来说，思维复制的可能性，

and regenerated bodies

和身体的再生

is that our love affair, Chris, can go on forever.

会让我们的爱情故事，克里斯， 持续到永远。

And we never get bored of each other. I'm sure we never will.

我们从来不觉得彼此无聊。 我肯定以后也不会的。

CA: I think Bina's here, right? MR: She is, yeah.

克：碧娜在场，是吧？ 马：她在，是的。

CA: Would it be too much, I don't know, do we have a handheld mic?

克：我不知道这个要求是否过分， 我们有话筒么？

Bina, could we invite you to the stage? I just have to ask you one question.

碧娜，我们能请你上台么？ 我有一个问题非问不可。

Besides, we need to see you.

此外，我们很想见见你。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you, thank you.

谢谢，谢谢。

Come and join Martine here.

来，和马蒂娜坐在一起。

I mean, look, when you got married,

你看，当你结婚的时候，

if someone had told you that, in a few years time,

如果有人告诉你， 几年之内，

the man you were marrying would become a woman,

你嫁的这个男人 会变成一个女人，

and a few years after that, you would become a robot --

然后再过几年， 你会变成一个机器人 ——

(Laughter) --

（笑声）

how has this gone? How has it been?

跟我们讲讲，你是怎么看待这些的？

Bina Rothblatt: It's been really an exciting journey,

碧娜·罗斯布拉特：这是一段 令人兴奋的旅程，

and I would have never thought that at the time,

我以前也从来没想过，

but we started making goals and setting those goals

但当我们开始制定目标，并为之努力，

and accomplishing things,

最后完成一些事情，

and before you knew it, we just keep going up and up

我们没有多想， 只是不断前行

and we're still not stopping, so it's great.

直到现在我们也没有停止， 所以还是很棒的。

CA: Martine told me something really beautiful,

克：马蒂娜告诉我一件很美好的事，

just actually on Skype before this,

是之前我们通过Skype通话的时候，

which was that he wanted to live for hundreds of years

她说她希望能够活上几百年

as a mind file,

通过思维文档的形式，

but not if it wasn't with you.

但如果没有你的话， 她就不会去做这个事。

BR: That's right, we want to do it together.

碧：是的， 我们想一起做这个事。

We're cryonicists as well, and we want to wake up together.

我们还支持人体冷冻技术， 希望能够一起醒来。

CA: So just so as you know, from my point of view,

克：我就想告诉你们， 从我的角度讲，

this isn't only one of the most astonishing lives I have heard,

这不仅是我听过的 最精彩的人生故事，

it's one of the most astonishing love stories I've ever heard.

也是我听过的 最精彩的爱情故事。

It's just a delight to have you both here at TED.

非常高兴你们二位能来TED

Thank you so much.

非常感谢。

MR: Thank you.

马：谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）