The four fish we're overeating -- and what to eat instead | Paul Greenberg

翻译人员: Tian Ye 校对人员: Luyao Zou

So when I was a kid ...

在我小时候，

this was my team.

它们是我的玩伴。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I stunk at sports.

我运动很差，

I didn't like to play them, I didn't like to watch them.

我既不喜欢玩，也不喜欢看，

So this is what I did. I went fishing.

所以我玩的就是这个，钓鱼。

And for all of my growing up I fished on the shores of Connecticut,

从小到大，我在康涅狄格州的水边钓鱼，

and these are the creatures that I saw on a regular basis.

这些生物都是我经常见到的。

But after I grew up and went to college,

但我长大后，上了大学，

and I came home in the early 90's,

后来在1990年代初回到家乡时，

this is what I found.

我看到的只剩这些。

My team had shrunk.

我的玩伴变少了，

It was like literally having your roster devastated.

这种感觉真就像 自己的最佳阵容全部报销了。

And as I sort of looked into that,

当我开始思考这件事，

from a very personal point of view as a fisherman,

完全从一个钓鱼者的个人角度来看，

I started to kind of figure out,

我开始想弄明白，

well, what was the rest of the world thinking about it?

好吧，世界上其他人是怎么想的？

First place I started to look was fish markets.

首先我去看的地方是鱼市。

And when I went to fish markets,

当我前往鱼市，

in spite of where I was --

不管是在哪里--

whether I was in North Carolina, or Paris, or London, or wherever --

无论是在北卡罗来纳州、还是巴黎、 还是伦敦或者别的地方--

I kept seeing this weirdly repeating trope of four creatures,

我不断看到四种生物组成的奇怪景像，

again and again --

一次又一次--

on the menus, on ice --

在菜单上，在冰上--

shrimp, tuna, salmon and cod.

虾、鲔鱼、鲑鱼和鳕鱼。

And I thought this was pretty strange,

我觉得这样相当奇怪，

and as I looked at it, I was wondering,

看着它们，我就在想，

did anyone else notice this sort of shrinking of the market?

难道没有别人注意到 市面上的品种在减少吗？

Well, when I looked into it,

嗯，随着我更深入的了解，

I realized that people didn't look at it as their team.

我发现到人们并没有把它们 看作活生生的伙伴，

Ordinary people, the way they looked at seafood was like this.

普通人眼里的海产品是这样的。

It's not an unusual human characteristic

把自然世界缩减到 极少的几种要素，

to reduce the natural world down to very few elements.

倒也没有违反人类本性。

We did it before, 10,000 years ago, when we came out of our caves.

我们以前就干过， 一万年前，我们走出洞穴时。

If you look at fire pits from 10,000 years ago,

如果看一下一万年前的篝火遗迹，

you'll see raccoons, you'll see, you know, wolves,

可以看到浣熊，可以看到狼，

you'll see all kinds of different creatures.

可以看到各种不同的生物。

But if you telescope to the age of -- you know, 2,000 years ago,

但当你把目光转向两千年前，

you'll see these four mammals:

你会看到这四种哺乳动物：

pigs, cows, sheep and goats.

猪、牛、绵羊和山羊。

It's true of birds, too.

鸟类也一样。

You look at the menus in New York City restaurants

如果看看纽约餐馆的菜单，

150 years ago, 200 years ago,

在150年前、200年前，

you'll see snipe, woodcock, grouse, dozens of ducks, dozens of geese.

可以看到鹬、山鹬、松鸡、 几十种鸭和几十种鹅。

而继续把目光转向现代畜牧业的时代，

But telescope ahead to the age of modern animal husbandry,

and you'll see four:

则会看到四种：

turkeys, ducks, chicken and geese.

火鸡、鸭、鸡和鹅。

So it makes sense that we've headed in this direction.

所以才说， 我们朝着减少市面品种的方向发展。

But how have we headed in this direction?

但我们是怎么朝这个方向走的？

Well ...

嗯……

first it's a very, very new problem.

首先这是个非常非常新的问题。

This is the way we've been fishing the oceans over the last 50 years.

这是过去50年间， 我们在海洋里捕鱼的方式。

World War II was a tremendous incentive to arm ourselves in a war against fish.

二战极大地刺激了我们 升级装备来向鱼类开战。

All of the technology that we perfected during World War II --

我们在二战期间完善的所有技术--

sonar, lightweight polymers --

声纳、轻巧的聚合物--

all these things were redirected towards fish.

所有这些都转而用来对付鱼类。

And so you see this tremendous buildup in fishing capacity,

所以你可以看到捕捞量的惊人增长，

quadrupling in the course of time,

从二战结束至今 ， 足足翻了两番。

from the end of World War II to the present time.

And right now that means

那么现在，这就意味着

we're taking between 80 and 90 million metric tons out of the sea every year.

我们每年从海洋里捞出八、九千万吨鱼类，

That's the equivalent of the human weight of China

这相当于每年从海里捞出，

taken out of the sea every year.

全体中国人的重量。

And it's no coincidence that I use China as the example

我用中国作例子并非巧合，

因为中国现在是世界最大的渔业国。

because China is now the largest fishing nation in the world.

Well, that's only half the story.

嗯，这才是故事的一半，

The other half of the story

故事的另一半，

is this incredible boom in fish farming and aquaculture,

是水产养殖业的惊人发展，

which is now, only in the last year or two,

现在，也就是在过去一两年，

starting to exceed the amount of wild fish that we produce.

已经超过了野生鱼类的捕捞量。

So that if you add wild fish and farmed fish together,

所以如果把捕捞和养殖的鱼类加在一起，

you get the equivalent of two Chinas created from the ocean

每年海洋里产出全体中国人总重量的两倍。

each and every year.

And again, it's not a coincidence that I use China as the example,

再说一次，我用中国作例子并非巧合，

because China, in addition to being the biggest catcher of fish,

因为中国不光是最大的捕鱼国，

is also the biggest farmer of fish.

也是最大的水产养殖国。

So let's look though at the four choices we are making right now.

让我们看看我们制造出来的四个选项。

The first one --

第一个--

by far the most consumed seafood in America and in much of the West,

目前在美国和西方大部分国家里 消费最广泛的海产品是

is shrimp.

虾。

Shrimp in the wild -- as a wild product --

野生的虾-- 需要捕捞--

is a terrible product.

作为渔业产品非常糟糕。

5, 10, 15 pounds of wild fish are regularly killed

要向市场提供一磅虾，通常会杀死 5、10、甚至15磅的野生鱼类。

to bring one pound of shrimp to the market.

They're also incredibly fuel inefficient to bring to the market.

而且捕虾业的燃油经济性也极差。

In a recent study that was produced out of Dalhousie University,

达尔豪西大学最近进行的一项研究显示，

it was found that dragging for shrimp

拖网捕虾 是二氧化碳排放最高的捕鱼方式之一。

is one of the most carbon-intensive ways of fishing that you can find.

So you can farm them,

当然虾也可以养殖，

and people do farm them,

也的确有人养殖，

and they farm them a lot in this very area.

他们通常在这类区域大量养殖。

Problem is ...

问题是--

the place where you farm shrimp is in these wild habitats --

养虾的地方在这些野生栖息地里--

in mangrove forests.

在红树林里。

Now look at those lovely roots coming down.

看看这些往下生长的树根，

Those are the things that hold soil together,

是它们在固定土壤，

protect coasts, create habitats for all sorts of young fish, young shrimp,

保护海滩， 为所有小鱼小虾创造了栖息地，

all sorts of things that are important to this environment.

保护了所有这些对环境非常重要的事物。

Well, this is what happens to a lot of coastal mangrove forests.

这个，就是许多沿海红树林所面临的问题。

过去30、40年间， 我们损失了数百万英亩的沿海红树林。

We've lost millions of acres of coastal mangroves

over the last 30 or 40 years.

That rate of destruction has slowed,

破坏速度虽然已经下降，

but we're still in a major mangrove deficit.

但红树林的总量仍然严重不足。

The other thing that's going on here

这里还有另一个问题，

is a phenomenon that the filmmaker Mark Benjamin called "Grinding Nemo."

就是电影制片人马克·本杰明所说的 "碾碎海洋生物"现象。

This phenomenon is very, very relevant

你在热带珊瑚礁所看到的一切 都和这个现象高度相关。

to anything that you've ever seen on a tropical reef.

Because what's going on right now,

因为现在正在发生的是，

we have shrimp draggers dragging for shrimp,

捕虾船开过来捕虾，

catching a huge amount of bycatch,

会捕到大量的副产品，

that bycatch in turn gets ground up and turned into shrimp food.

这些副产品会被磨碎， 变成虾的饲料。

And sometimes, many of these vessels --

有的时候，许多这种船--

manned by slaves --

都是奴工在工作--

are catching these so-called "trash fish,"

来捕捞这些所谓的“垃圾鱼类”，

fish that we would love to see on a reef,

这些我们其实很乐于 在珊瑚礁上见到的鱼类，

grinding them up

把它们磨碎，

然后变成虾的饲料--

and turning them into shrimp feed --

an ecosystem literally eating itself and spitting out shrimp.

还真是一个自己吃自己 然后吐出虾来的生态系统。

The next most consumed seafood in America,

下一个美国消费最广泛的海产品，

and also throughout the West,

在整个西方也是，

金枪鱼（也叫鲔鱼，吞拿鱼）。

is tuna.

So tuna is this ultimate global fish.

金枪鱼是顶级的全球性鱼类。

These huge management areas have to be observed

这些巨大的管理区域都必须受到监控，

in order for tuna to be well managed.

以保证对金枪鱼捕捞进行良好管理。

Our own management area,

我们自己的管理区域，

called a Regional Fisheries Management Organization,

称为地区性渔业管理组织，

is called ICCAT,

简称 ICCAT，

the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas.

大西洋鲔类保育委员会。

The great naturalist Carl Safina once called it,

杰出的自然主义者 卡尔·赛菲纳曾经称之为：

"The International Conspiracy to Catch all the Tunas."

“捞光所有金枪鱼国际阴谋会”。

Of course we've seen incredible improvement

当然，我们看到ICCAT 在过去两年的巨大进步，

in ICCAT in the last few years,

there is total room for improvement,

而且完全还有改进空间的，

but it remains to be said that tuna is a global fish,

但仍然要强调的是， 金枪鱼是一种全球性鱼类，

and to manage it, we have to manage the globe.

要管理它，就必须全球管理。

Well, we could also try to grow tuna

那好，我们也可以试试养殖，

but tuna is a spectacularly bad animal for aquaculture.

可对于水产养殖来说， 金枪鱼极为糟糕。

Many people don't know this but tuna are warm-blooded.

许多人不知道， 金枪鱼其实是温血动物，

They can heat their bodies 20 degrees above ambient temperature,

它们可以使自己身体的温度 比环境温度高20度，

they can swim at over 40 miles an hour.

它们游泳的速度 超过65公里每小时。

So that pretty much eliminates

所以这条基本把养殖鱼类的优点 完全消灭了，对吧？

all the advantages of farming a fish, right?

A farmed fish is --

一种养殖鱼类--

or a fish is cold-blooded, it doesn't move too much.

最好是冷血鱼类， 不怎么爱动，

That's a great thing for growing protein.

这样才有利于蛋白质生长。

But if you've got this crazy, wild creature

但如果养的是这样 疯狂而野性的生物，

that swims at 40 miles an hour and heats its blood --

游速65公里每小时， 还能加热自己的血液--

对水产养殖来说不是个好选择。

not a great candidate for aquaculture.

The next creature --

下一种生物--

美国和整个西方最广泛消费的海产品--

most consumed seafood in America and throughout the West --

鲑鱼（也称三文鱼）

is salmon.

Now salmon got its plundering, too,

现在鲑鱼也被扫荡一空了，

but it didn't really necessarily happen through fishing.

但原因其实不是因为捕捞。

This is my home state of Connecticut.

这里是我的家乡康涅狄格州，

Connecticut used to be home to a lot of wild salmon.

康涅狄格州曾是许多野生鲑鱼的家乡。

But if you look at this map of Connecticut,

可如果看一看这张康涅狄格州地图，

every dot on that map is a dam.

图上的每个点代表一个水坝，

There are over 3,000 dams in the state of Connecticut.

整个康涅狄格州有超过3,000座水坝。

I often say this is why people in Connecticut are so uptight --

我常说这就是为什么 康涅狄格人这么急脾气呢--

(Laughter)

（笑声）

If somebody could just unblock Connecticut's chi,

要是有人能让康涅狄格通通气，

我觉得世界会变得很美好。

I feel that we could have an infinitely better world.

But I made this particular comment

我在一次国家公园官员会议上特意提起过，

at a convention once of national parks officers,

and this guy from North Carolina sidled up to me, he says,

有这么一位北卡罗来纳州的 悄悄靠过来，说：

"You know, you oughtn't be so hard on your Connecticut,

“兄弟，你们康涅狄格这种算个啥啊，

cause we here in North Carolina, we got 35,000 dams."

因为咱北卡罗来纳州， 咱有35,000座坝嘞。”

So it's a national epidemic, it's an international epidemic.

所以说全国都有这个问题， 全世界都有这个问题，

And there are dams everywhere,

到处都有水坝，

刚好就是这些水坝，

and these are precisely the things

that stop wild salmon from reaching their spawning grounds.

挡住了鲑鱼的去路， 让它们无法到达产卵处。

So as a result, we've turned to aquaculture,

因此呢，我们就转为养殖，

and salmon is one the most successful, at least from a numbers point of view.

而鲑鱼是最为成功的品种之一， 至少许多人这样认为。

When they first started farming salmon,

当人们刚开始养殖鲑鱼时，

it could take as many as six pounds of wild fish

要消耗六磅的野生鱼类 才能产出一磅鲑鱼，

to make a single pound of salmon.

The industry has, to its credit, greatly improved.

这一产业已经大大进步了， 的确有功劳，

They've gotten it below two to one,

现在已经低于二比一了，

although it's a little bit of a cheat

虽然其中有一点欺骗性。

because if you look at the way aquaculture feed is produced,

因为如果看看养殖鱼饲料是如何生产的，

they're measuring pellets --

是以这种一粒粒的饲料来计算的--

pounds of pellets per pound of salmon.

饲料的磅数比鲑鱼的磅数，

Those pellets are in turn reduced fish.

而饲料也是用鱼制造的。

So the actual -- what's called the FIFO, the fish in and the fish out --

所以实际的鱼的投入和产出比-- 称为 FIFO--

kind of hard to say.

就不太好确定。

But in any case,

但无论如何，

鲑鱼养殖业有功劳，

credit to the industry,

it has lowered the amount of fish per pound of salmon.

生产每磅鲑鱼所消耗的鱼类确实下降了。

Problem is we've also gone crazy

问题是我们对鲑鱼产量太狂热了。

with the amount of salmon that we're producing.

水产养殖是这个星球上增长最快的食品体系，

Aquaculture is the fastest growing food system on the planet.

It's growing at something like seven percent per year.

它大约每年增长7%。

And so even though we're doing less per fish

而虽然单位产量的鱼对应的代价变少了，

to bring it to the market,

we're still killing a lot of these little fish.

我们仍然在杀死许多这样的小鱼。

And it's not just fish that we're feeding fish to,

而且我们不光用鱼来喂鱼，

we're also feeding fish to chickens and pigs.

我们还用鱼来喂鸡和猪。

So we've got chickens and they're eating fish,

所以我们养的鸡吃鱼，

but weirdly, we also have fish that are eating chickens.

但奇怪的是，我们养的鱼也有吃鸡的。

Because the byproducts of chickens -- feathers, blood, bone --

因为鸡的副产品-- 羽毛、血、骨头--

get ground up and fed to fish.

被磨碎然后喂鱼。

So I often wonder,

所以我经常会想，

is there a fish that ate a chicken that ate a fish?

会不会有鱼吃了鸡，那鸡又吃了鱼？

It's sort of a reworking of the chicken and egg thing. Anyway --

这有点像是先有鸡还是先有蛋的变体。 无论如何--

(Laughter)

（笑声）

All together, though, it results in a terrible mess.

总的来说，结果是非常糟糕。

What you're talking about

我们看到的是，

is something between 20 and 30 million metric tons of wild creatures

大约有二、三千万吨的野生生物

that are taken from the ocean and used and ground up.

从海洋里打捞出来，然后磨碎。

That's the equivalent of a third of a China,

这相当于三分之一中国人的重量，

or of an entire United States of humans

或全体美国人的重量，

that's taken out of the sea each and every year.

每年要从海里捞出来。

The last of the four is a kind of amorphous thing.

四种鱼里的最后一种， 含义有点模糊。

It's what the industry calls "whitefish."

行业内称之为“白鱼”，

There are many fish that get cycled into this whitefish thing

“白鱼”这个叫法实际包含了许多种鱼，

但我想解释一下由来，

but the way to kind of tell the story, I think,

is through that classic piece of American culinary innovation,

要先提一下美国饮食革命中的经典桥段，

the Filet-O-Fish sandwich.

麦香鱼堡。

So the Filet-O-Fish sandwich actually started as halibut.

麦香鱼堡其实最先用的是比目鱼。

And it started because a local franchise owner

事情的起因是： 一家麦当劳加盟店的店主

found that when he served his McDonald's on Friday, nobody came.

发现他在周五卖汉堡时，没有人来买。

Because it was a Catholic community, they needed fish.

因为他是在一个天主教社区里，人们要吃鱼。

So he went to Ray Kroc and he said,

所以他去找雷·克罗克，说：

"I'm going to bring you a fish sandwich, going to be made out of halibut."

“我要做一种鱼肉汉堡，要用比目鱼做。”

雷·克罗克说：“我不看好。

Ray Kroc said, "I don't think it's going to work.

我想做一种呼拉汉堡，

I want to do a Hula Burger,

在面包上放一片菠萝。

and there's going to be a slice of pineapple on a bun.

But let's do this, let's have a bet.

不过这么着吧，我们打个赌，

Whosever sandwich sells more, that will be the winning sandwich."

谁的汉堡更好卖， 谁的汉堡就算胜出。”

Well, it's kind of sad for the ocean that the Hula Burger didn't win.

好吧，呼拉汉堡最后没有赢， 对大海真是件悲伤的事，

So he made his halibut sandwich.

所以他就做了比目鱼堡。

Unfortunately though, the sandwich came in at 30 cents.

不过不妙的是， 鱼堡卖30美分一个，

Ray wanted the sandwich to come in at 25 cents,

雷希望降到25美分，

so he turned to Atlantic cod.

所以他改用了大西洋鳕鱼。

We all know what happened to Atlantic cod in New England.

我们都知道新英格兰地区 大西洋鳕鱼的遭遇（几乎灭绝）。

So now the Filet-O-Fish sandwich is made out of Alaska pollock,

所以如今的麦香鱼堡 用的是阿拉斯加黄线狭鳕，

it's the largest fin fish fishery in the United States,

它是美国捕捞量最大的鱼类，

2 to 3 billion pounds of fish taken out of the sea every single year.

每年捕捞20到30亿磅。

If we go through the pollock,

如果黄线狭鳕捞完了，

the next choice is probably going to be tilapia.

下一个选择很可能是罗非鱼。

Tilapia is one of those fish nobody ever heard of 20 years ago.

罗非鱼这种鱼， 二十年前根本没人听说过。

It's actually a very efficient converter of plant protein into animal protein,

实际上它可以非常高效地 将植物蛋白转化为动物蛋白，

and it's been a godsend to the third world.

对于第三世界，它是天赐之物。

It's actually a tremendously sustainable solution,

它其实是一种极好的 可持续发展解决方案，

it goes from an egg to an adult in nine months.

它从卵成长为成鱼只需九个月。

问题是，如果对照西方世界的口味，

The problem is that when you look about the West,

西方所要的它没有。

it doesn't do what the West wants it to do.

It really doesn't have what's called an oily fish profile.

它没有这种所谓的“鱼油”卖点。

它没有 EPA，DHA 这些ω-3不饱和脂肪酸，

It doesn't have the EPA and DHA omega-3s

that we all think are going to make us live forever.

这些我们觉得吃了可以长生不老的东西。

So what do we do?

那我们该怎么办？

I mean, first of all, what about this poor fish, the clupeids?

首先来说， 这种小鱼怎么样，鲱鱼？

The fish that represent a huge part of that 20 to 30 million metric tons.

在上面提到的二、三千万吨里， 这种鱼占了很大一部分。

Well, one possibility that a lot of conservationists have raised

其实，许多保护主义者都提到这种可能性，

is could we eat them?

它可不可以吃？

Could we eat them directly instead of feeding them to salmon?

我们可不可以直接吃它， 而不是用来喂鲑鱼？

There are arguments for it.

对此还有些争论。

They are tremendously fuel efficient to bring to market,

让这种鱼上市的燃油经济性极高，

a fraction of the fuel cost of say, shrimp,

比如和虾比，燃油消耗只是个零头，

and at the very top of the carbon efficiency scale.

而且它在碳效率上也是在最前列。

They also are omega-3 rich, a great source for EPA and DHA.

它也富含ω-3不饱和脂肪酸， 是EPA和DHA的良好来源，

So that is a potential.

所以这是个优点。

And if we were to go down that route what I would say is,

如果我们从这点说开来， 我想说的是，

instead of paying a few bucks a pound -- or a few bucks a ton, really --

与其在每磅上支出几美元-- 实际是每吨几美元--

and making it into aquafeed,

用来把它变成鱼饲料，

could we halve the catch and double the price for the fishermen

我们是不是可以将捕捞量减半， 让价格提升一倍，

and make that our way of treating these particular fish?

以此作为我们对待这些鱼类的做法吗？

Other possibility though, which is much more interesting,

而另一种可能选择就更有意思了，

is looking at bivalves, particularly mussels.

就是双壳贝类， 尤其是贻贝。

Now, mussels are very high in EPA and DHA, they're similar to canned tuna.

贻贝的EPA和DHA含量非常高， 和鲔鱼罐头相似。

They're also extremely fuel efficient.

同样燃油经济性极高。

To bring a pound of mussels to market

上市一磅贻贝的碳排放，

is about a thirtieth of the carbon as required to bring beef to market.

只有上市一磅牛肉的十三分之一。

They require no forage fish,

它们也不用吃鱼，

they actually get their omega-3s by filtering the water of microalgae.

它们实际上可以过滤水中的藻类 得到自己的ω-3不饱和脂肪酸。

In fact, that's where omega-3s come from, they don't come from fish.

实际上这也是ω-3不饱和脂肪酸的来源， 并不是来自鱼。

Microalgae make the omega-3s, they're only bioconcentrated in fish.

ω-3不饱和脂肪酸是藻类制造的， 只是在鱼类体内进行生物富集。

Mussels and other bivalves

贻贝和其它双壳贝类

do tremendous amounts of water filtration.

能过滤大量的水。

每只贻贝每天能过滤几十加仑的水，

A single mussel can filter dozens of gallons every single day.

And this is incredibly important when we look at the world.

这点对于世界来说非常重要。

Right now, nitrification, overuse of phosphates in our waterways

如今，水体中过量的氮和磷

are causing tremendous algal blooms.

导致藻类疯长。

Over 400 new dead zones have been created in the last 20 years,

在过去20年里 已经出现了超过400个死亡地带，

tremendous sources of marine life death.

大量的海洋生物死亡。

We also could look at not a fish at all.

我们还完全可以考虑不是鱼的，

We could look at a vegetable.

比如蔬菜，

We could look at seaweed, the kelps,

比如海带，褐藻，

all these different varieties of things that can be high in omega-3s,

它们有许多不同品种， 均富含ω-3不饱和脂肪酸，

can be high in proteins,

富含蛋白质，

tremendously good things.

非常好的东西。

They filter the water just like mussels do.

它们也和贻贝一样能过滤水，

And weirdly enough,

而且奇特之处在于，

it turns out that you can actually feed this to cows.

它还真的可以用来喂牛。

Now, I'm not a big fan of cattle.

我不太支持养牛业，

But if you wanted to keep growing cattle

但如果你希望能继续养牛，

in a time and place where water resources are limited,

而所处的时令和地区水资源又有限，

you're growing seaweed in the water, you don't have to water it --

就可以在水里种海带， 还不用浇水--

major consideration.

很值得考虑。

And the last fish is a question mark.

最后一种鱼是一个问号。

We have the ability to create aquacultured fish

我们有能力创造出一种养殖鱼类，

that creates a net gain of marine protein for us.

它能提供净增量的海洋蛋白质，

This creature would have to be vegetarian,

它应当是吃素的，

it would have to be fast growing,

它应当生长迅速，

it would have to be adaptable to a changing climate

它应当能适应气候变化，

and it would have to have that oily fish profile,

而且要有“鱼油”卖点，

that EPA, DHA, omega-3 fatty acid profile that we're looking for.

EPA 和 DHA 这些我们希望有的 ω-3不饱和脂肪酸。

This exists kind of on paper.

这似乎只存在于纸面上。

I have been reporting on these subjects for 15 years.

15年来我一直在报导这方面的话题，

Every time I do a new story, somebody tells me,

每次我写一个新故事， 都会有人告诉我，

“我们都能做到，我们都能解决，

"We can do all that. We can do it. We've figured it all out.

We can produce a fish

我们能创造出这样的一种鱼，

that's a net gain of marine protein and has omega-3s."

能提供净增量的海洋蛋白质 和ω-3不饱和脂肪酸。”

Great.

很好。

It doesn't seem to be getting scaled up.

但这件事看来发展得不够快，

It is time to scale this up.

是时候加快迅速了。

If we do,

如果我们做得到，

30 million metric tons of seafood, a third of the world catch,

那么就有三千万吨的海产品， 世界捕捞量的三分之一，

stays in the water.

能留在海里。

So I guess what I'm saying is this is what we've been going with.

所以我想说的就是， 这就是我们走过的路。

We tend to go with our appetites rather than our minds.

我们总是喜欢口味决定脑袋， 而不是相反。

But if we went with this, or some configuration of it,

但如果我们改成这样， 或者组合上有些改变，

we might have a little more of this.

那这些就可能会多一些。

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

(Applause)

（掌声）