We can fight terror without sacrificing our rights | Rebecca MacKinnon

翻译人员: Tingting Zhong 校对人员: Yangyang Liu

There's a big question at the center of life

在当今的民主社会，

in our democracies today:

我们正面临着一个严峻的问题，

How do we fight terror without destroying democracies,

那就是怎样才能在不损害民主、

without trampling human rights?

不践踏人权的前提下反恐？

I've spent much of my career working with journalists,

我职业生涯中的很长时间 都在跟记者、

with bloggers,

博客作者、

with activists,

活动家、

with human rights researchers all around the world,

和世界各地的人权研究者共事。

and I've come to the conclusion

我得出了一个结论：

that if our democratic societies do not double down

如果我们的民主社会 不更加积极地推动

on protecting and defending human rights,

保护和捍卫人权，

freedom of the press

维护新闻自由，

and a free and open internet,

保护自由开放的互联网，

radical extremist ideologies are much more likely to persist.

那么激进的极端主义 很可能会继续肆虐全球。

(Applause)

（掌声）

好吧，我讲完了。 非常感谢。

OK, all done. Thank you very much.

No, just joking.

没有，我开个玩笑。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I actually want to drill down on this a little bit.

我其实想更深入地 探讨一下这个问题。

So, one of the countries that has been on the frontlines of this issue

问题最突出的国家之一便是

is Tunisia,

突尼斯。

which was the only country to come out of the Arab Spring

它也是唯一一个 在“阿拉伯之春”运动中，

with a successful democratic revolution.

成功发展了民主革命的国家。

Five years later,

然而，五年后，

they're struggling with serious terror attacks

他们却整天挣扎于 严重的恐怖袭击，

and rampant ISIS recruitment.

和猖獗的“伊斯兰国”增员当中。

And many Tunisians are calling on their government

很多的突尼斯人呼吁政府，

to do whatever it takes to keep them safe.

去采取一切手段来保护民众安全。

Tunisian cartoonist Nadia Khiari

突尼斯漫画家 Nadia Khiari ，

has summed up the situation with this character who says,

借一个动画人物， 描绘了国内的现状，

它说：“我不关心人权。

"I don't give a damn about human rights.

I don't give a damn about the revolution.

我不关心革命。

I don't give a damn about democracy and liberty.

我不关心民主自由。

I just want to be safe."

我只想要安全。”

"Satisfied?" asked his jailer.

“这下满意了吗？” 狱卒问关在监狱中的它。

"You're safe now."

“你现在安全了。”

If the Tunisian people can figure out

如果突尼斯民众能够弄明白，

how to deal with their terrorism problem

如何能既成功应对恐怖主义问题，

without ending up in this place,

又不用在监狱里终其一生，

they will be a model not only for their region,

他们将成为标杆，不仅 是那片地区的，

but for all of us.

更是我们所有人的标杆。

The reality is that civil society, journalists and activists

事实是，在很多国家，

are coming under attack from extremist groups on the one hand,

民间团体、记者、活动家， 他们不但会受到

and, in many countries,

极端组织的袭击，

还要受到他们政府的打击。

also from their own governments.

We're seeing bloggers and journalists being jailed,

我们看到很多博客主、记者

charged and intimidated

被他们的政府关押起来，

by their own governments,

被起诉，被恐吓。

many of which are allies with the West in the war on terror.

其中很多政府在反恐战争中 还与西方社会是同盟军。

Just three examples.

我举三个例子：

A friend and former colleague of mine,

我的朋友兼前同事，

Hisham Almiraat,

Hisham Almiraat,

has been charged with threatening state security,

被起诉，理由是威胁国家安全，

along with six other activists in Morocco.

同时遭到起诉的，还有摩洛哥的 其他六位活动家。

The Saudi blogger Raif Badawi has been jailed and flogged

沙特的博客作者 Raif Badawi， 被关押，遭受鞭打，

for insulting Islam and criticizing the Saudi regime on his blog.

原因是他在自己的博客上 侮辱伊斯兰教，批判沙特政权。

More recently, the Turkish representative for Reporters Without Borders,

最近，土耳其 “无国界记者组织”的代表，

Erol Önderoglu,

Erol Önderoglu,

has been detained and charged with spreading terrorist propaganda,

被拘留控诉， 理由是宣扬恐怖主义，

because he and some other activists have been supporting Kurdish media.

只因为他和其他一些活动家， 一直在支持库尔德媒体。

Anti-terror measures quickly turn into state repression

反恐措施快速转变为政府镇压，

without strong protection for minority communities

而没有有效的保护其少数群体利益，

and for peaceful debate;

以及和平辩论；

this needs to be supported by a robust, independent local media.

这时就需要一个稳健、 独立的地方媒介给予支持。

But while that's not really happening,

但是实际上， 并没有这样的媒介支持，

Washington is teaming up with Silicon Valley and with Hollywood

美国政府却与硅谷和好莱坞合作，

to pour millions -- hundreds of millions of dollars --

投入百万甚至数以亿计美元，

into what's called "counter-messaging,"

进行所谓的 “反击信息”计划，

a fancy word for propaganda.

其实就是宣传的花哨说法。

To counter the terrorist propaganda spreading all over the internet,

为了对抗 恐怖主义在网络上的大肆宣扬，

in Europe, Internet Referral Units are being set up,

欧洲成立了互联网参照部，

so that people can report on extremist content that they find

这样民众就可以报告 他们发现的极端主义内容，

and get it censored.

使这些内容经受审查。

The problem is,

问题是，

that all of this propaganda, monitoring and censorship

所有的宣传、监控及审查，

completely fails to make up for the fact

完全忽视了问题的关键，

that the people who are the most credible voices,

那就是， 那些发出最可靠声音的人，

who can present credible ideas and alternative solutions

那些能够针对他们所在地区的 经济、社会及政治问题，

to real economic, social and political problems in their community

能针对人们变成 极端主义者的原因，

that are causing people to turn to extremism in the first place,

提出可信的观点和替代方案的人，

are being silenced by their own governments.

却被他们自己的政府禁言了。

This is all adding up to a decrease in freedom across the world.

这进一步降低了 世界范围内人们的自由度。

Freedom House,

“自由之家”，

the human rights organization,

一个人权组织，

reports that 2015 marks the 10th straight year in a row

曾报告称：2015年， 是世界范围内自由度

of decline in freedom worldwide.

直线下滑的第十个年头。

And this is not just because of the actions

究其原因，

of authoritarian governments.

绝非仅仅是独裁政府的行为。

It's also because democratic governments

还因为民主政府

are increasingly cracking down on dissenters,

一直在加强镇压持异议者，

whistle-blowers

检举人，

and investigative journalists.

和调查记者。

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon has warned

联合国秘书长潘基文曾提醒，

that "preventing extremism and promoting human rights go hand-in-hand."

“避免极端主义 和推行人权密切相关。”

It's not to say that governments shouldn't keep us safe --

这并不是说政府 不应该保护我们的安全—

of course they should --

他们当然应该保护—

but we need public oversight, transparency

但我们需要 公众监督，透明度，

and accountability to the rule of law.

以及问责制加诸于 法律条文之上。

Meanwhile,

同时，

extremists are literally killing off civil society in some countries.

极端主义者正在某些国家 逐渐消灭民间团体。

Since 2013 in Bangladesh,

孟加拉国自2013年来，

over a dozen secular bloggers and community activists

已有超过12个非宗教博主 和社区积极分子，

have been literally slaughtered by extremists

被激进分子所杀害，

while the government has done very little.

而政府却几乎什么都没做。

From the city of Raqqa in Syria,

在叙利亚的拉卡市，

people like Ruqia Hassan and Naji Jerf have been assassinated

像 Ruqia Hassan 和 Naji Jerf 这样的人士被暗杀，

for their reporting out of ISIS-controlled territory.

因为他们曾在“伊斯兰国”（ISIS） 控制区域的外围进行报导。

The citizen media group called Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently

名为“拉卡正被无声屠杀”的 民间媒体，

relies on strong encryption to send out their reports

通过强加密手段来发出报导，

and shield themselves from interception and surveillance.

并保护自己不被拦截和监视。

Yet authorities in countries like the United States,

然而很多诸如美国、英国

the United Kingdom and many other democracies

及其他民主主义国家的当局者们，

are seeking to use the law

正在探索如何使用法律，

to either weaken or outright ban strong encryption,

来削弱或完全禁止强加密，

because the bad guys are using it, too.

因为坏人也在使用它。

We have got to fight for the right of citizens to use strong encryption.

我们必须争取 公众使用强加密的权利。

Otherwise, dissent and investigative journalism

否则，意见相左的新闻和调查性报导

are going to become even more difficult

将会在更多地方，

in even more places.

变得更加困难。

And the bad guys -- the criminals and terrorists --

而坏人们——罪犯和恐怖分子，

are still going to find ways to communicate.

仍然会寻找其它方法来交流。

Kudos to the companies that are standing up

（我们要）向那些为了用户的权利

for their users' right to use encryption.

而坚持使用加密的公司致敬。

But when it comes to censorship,

但说到审查，

the picture is much more troubling.

事情就更麻烦了。

Yes, there's a real problem

是的，极端主义内容 在网络上广为传播，

of extremist content spreading all over the internet.

确实是个大问题。

And Facebook, YouTube and Twitter are among the many companies

Facebook, YouTube 和 Twitter 等等，很多这样的公司，

who report having taken down hundreds of thousands of pieces of content

都删除了涉及极端主义言论的

数十万条内容，

and deactivating accounts

that are connected to the extremist's speech.

并关闭了很多账号。

The problem is their enforcement mechanisms are a complete black box,

但问题是他们的执行机制 完全属于暗箱操作，

and there is collateral damage.

还附带额外损害。

Take, for example, Iyad el-Baghdadi,

例如，Lyad el-Baghdadi，

an activist who makes fun of ISIS on Twitter.

一个曾在Twitter上 取笑ISIS的活动家。

他的账号就遭到了关闭，

He had his account deactivated,

因为他跟一个有名的 ISIS头目姓氏一样。

because he shares a surname with a prominent ISIS leader.

Last December,

去年12月，

a number of women named Isis,

一群叫做Isis的女性，

她们只是碰巧用了 埃及女神Isis的名字，

which also happens to be the name of an Egyptian goddess,

had their accounts deactivated.

而使得账号遭到关闭。

And this woman,

还有这个女人，

who lives in the United States and is a computer programmer,

她生活在美国， 是一个电脑程序员，

reported on Twitter about her deactivation on Facebook,

在Twitter上称她的 Facebook账号被关闭，

managed to get enough media attention to have her account reinstated.

直到吸引足够多的媒体关注， 最终得以恢复账号。

But that's the thing -- she had to get media attention.

而关键就在于—— 她需要获得足够的媒体关注。

And journalists aren't immune.

记者们也不能幸免。

David Thomson,

David Thomson,

an expert on terrorism and reporter for Radio France International,

一名反恐专家， 法国国际广播电台记者，

had reports deleted from his Facebook account

也曾报告他的 Facebook 账号遭到注销，

and had his account deactivated for several days,

他的账号被关闭了好几天，

because they contained pictures of ISIS flags,

因为账户里包含ISIS旗帜图片，

even though he was just reporting on ISIS,

虽然他当时只是报导ISIS，

not promoting it.

而并非在宣传它。

And then we have stories from people like this Egyptian man,

也有诸如这个埃及人的故事，

Ahmed Abdellahy,

他叫 Ahmed Abdellahy,

who reported recently in an event in Washington DC

据报道，他最近 在华盛顿的一次活动中，

that some of his arguments with extremists --

与极端分子有过一些争执——

he now spends his time on social media arguing with ISIS followers,

他现在在社交媒体上 与ISIS的追随者们争论，

trying to get them to turn away --

试图劝说他们远离ISIS——

some of his arguments with these extremists get deleted,

他与这些极端分子的 某些争论就遭到了删除，

which he believes has the effect of shielding them

他相信，这么做只会有 一个结果：保护了极端分子

from alternative points of view.

免于不同观点的打扰。

It's unclear whether Facebook even knows the extent

我不清楚， Facebook是否知晓

of the collateral damage,

这些附带损害的程度，

or the other companies as well.

以及其它公司是否知道。

But we do know that journalism, activism and public debate

但我们知道， 为了消除极端主义言论，

are being silenced in the effort to stamp out extremist speech.

新闻业、积极分子 以及公众舆论正在被禁声。

So with these companies having so much power over the public discourse,

正因为这些公司对公众言论 有如此大的控制力，

they need to be held accountable.

他们需要对此负责。

They need to carry out impact assessment

他们需要开展影响力评估，

to identify and fix the problems that we're clearly seeing.

来识别和解决对我们 已经显而易见的问题。

They need to be more transparent about their enforcement mechanisms,

他们需要在执行机制方面， 变得更加透明。

and they need to have clear appeal and grievance mechanisms,

他们需要更清晰的 呼吁和申诉机制。

so people can get their content reinstated.

这样公众就能恢复 他们的账户内容了。

Now, I've been talking for the last 10 minutes

我在刚才的十分钟里，

about how governments and companies are making it more difficult

讨论了政府和公司 是如何使这些积极人士

for people like these.

变得步履维艰。

This is a picture of members of the citizen media network,

这是一张民间媒体网络“世界之声”的

Global Voices,

成员合影，

that I helped to cofound over 10 years ago

这个网站是我和 我的朋友Ethan Zuckerman，

with my friend, Ethan Zuckerman.

在十多年前共同建立的。

Interestingly, about 5 years ago, right after the Arab Spring,

有趣的是，大概五年前， “阿拉伯之春”刚结束的那段时间，

the data scientist Gilad Lotan

数据学家Gilad Lotan

created a network map of the people in Global Voices

创建了一个 “世界之声”成员的分布图，

who were heavy users of Twitter during the Arab Spring.

这些成员中的很多在“阿拉伯之春”中 都是Twitter的高频用户。

And he found that many of these people served as key information nodes

他发现这些人中的很多都扮演着

between activists and journalists

积极分子和记者间的 重要信息节点。

throughout the Tunisian and Egyptian revolution.

这些人贯穿着突尼斯 和埃及的改革当中。

We've got to make sure that these people not only survive,

我们不仅要确认这些人仍然活着，

but are able to continue to thrive.

也要帮助他们壮大他们的事业。

Many of them are still active,

有些人还继续活跃，

other than the ones who have gone to jail

有些被投进了监狱，

or have been driven into hiding or exile.

或者被迫躲藏和放逐。

All around the world,

在世界各地，

people who are sick and tired of fear and oppression

那些厌倦了恐惧和镇压的人们，

are linking up in their communities and across borders.

正在他们的社会内外团结起来。

We've got to do everything we can to push our governments and companies

我们必须尽我们所能 去督促政府和公司

to do a better job of protecting their rights.

更好地保护这些人的权利。

We've also got to be more mindful

我们也必须更加留意

about how our own personal, political, consumer and business choices

去关注我们个人：我们的 政治选择，个人消费和商业选择，

affect people like these around the world.

将为世界各地这样的 人群带来怎样的影响。

Also, if you follow the news,

而且，如果你留意新闻，

it's pretty clear that that alone isn't going to be enough.

会知道一个人的力量显然是不够的。

We've got to take personal responsibility by joining --

我们必须承担个人责任，

or at very least, actively supporting --

加入，或者至少是积极的支持，

the growing ecosystem of individuals and groups

这样一些，在世界各地

who are fighting for social justice,

为社会正义，

environmental sustainability,

为环境可持续性，

government accountability,

为政府问责，

human rights, freedom of the press

为人权，媒体自由，为自由而公开的

and a free and open internet,

网络而拼搏的，日益强大的

all around the world.

个人和团体组织。

I believe that, ultimately, we can overcome

我相信，我们最终可以战胜

the digitally empowered networks of extremism, demagoguery and hate.

那些寄生在网络上的 极端主义、煽动和仇恨。

But ...

但是…

we've got to do this by really beefing up the global networks

我们想要做到这一点， 就必须真正地加强

世界各地的民间组织，

of citizens around the world,

powered by people who are working hard every day,

加强那些冒着人身危险

and taking personal risk

为了更和平、公正、 开放和自由的未来世界

for a future world that is more peaceful, just, open and free.

而终日奔走的人民组织。

Thanks very much for listening.

感谢您的倾听。

(Applause)

（掌声）