How to start a conversation about suicide | Jeremy Forbes

Prevodilac: Kristina Janković Lektor: Tijana Mihajlović

In 2013,

Godine 2013,

I had a life-changing epiphany.

jedno otkrovenje mi je promenilo život.

I was a painter and decorator

Bio sam moler i dekorater

in Castlemaine, a small country town in central Victoria.

u Kaslmejnu, malom selu u centralnoj Viktoriji.

I'd gone to see Pete, who was renowned for his workmanship with steel.

Otišao sam do Pita, koji je bio poznat po svojoj veštini sa čelikom.

I'd gone to his shed to get some steel edging for the garden.

Otišao sam do njegove šupe da uzmem ivičnjak za baštu.

This day, with hindsight, which is a wonderful gift,

Danas, kada pogledam unazad, što je divan dar,

Pete seemed happier than usual.

Pit je delovao srećnije nego inače.

Two weeks later,

Dve nedelje kasnije,

I was painting a house down the end of Pete's street

krečio sam kuću na kraju Pitove ulice

when I heard the tragic news.

kada sam čuo tragične vesti.

Pete had suicided.

Pit je izvršio samoubistvo.

Pete, like myself, was a tradie, or a tradesman.

Pit je, kao i ja, bio trejdi ili trgovac.

We do like to shorten things in the Australian vernacular.

Volimo da skraćujemo stvari u australijanskom govoru.

A tradie.

Trejdi.

There was an expectation as a tradie.

Postoje očekivanja kada si trejdi.

You're expected to be stoic.

Očekuje se da si stoik.

You're expected to be strong,

Očekuje se da si jak,

robust, macho.

snažan, mačo.

You're expected to be tough physically

Očekuje se da si fizički otporan

and silent in the face of adversity.

i miran u jeku izazova.

There is a pronounced ripple effect

Postoji jaka lančana reakcija

when someone suicides in your community.

kada se neko iz vaše zajednice ubije.

Pete's funeral was in July. It was winter.

Pitova sahrana je bila u julu. Bila je zima.

The mood was bleak and somber

Raspoloženje je bilo tmurno i tužno

in the packed community hall.

u prepunoj mesnoj zajednici.

It was a grieving community

Bila je to ožalošćena zajednica

who had no answers

bez odgovora

to Pete's suicide,

na Pitovo samoubistvo,

no answers at all.

bez ikakvih odgovora.

As I wandered around between the tradies and the community members,

Dok sam tumarao okolo među trejdijima i članovima zajednice,

I started hearing some tones of another underlying tragic level.

počeo sam da čujem tonove drugog skrivenog nivoa tragedije.

I heard people talking in that community hall

Čuo sam ljude kako u toj mesnoj zajednici razgovaraju

about the struggles other people were going through.

o teškoćama kroz koje su drugi prolazili.

The essence of the conversations was contained in two words

Suština razgovora bila je sadržana u tri reči

that I heard several times:

koje sam čuo nekoliko puta:

Who's next?

ko je sledeći?

Who's next?

Ko je sledeći?

That was the epiphany.

To je bilo to otkrovenje.

That was the moment where I was standing in a community hall

Bio je to trenutak u kom sam stajao u mesnoj zajednici

in a place where this Castlemaine community

na mestu gde me je ova zajednica Kaslmejna

had given me such support for 20 years,

toliko podržavala tokom 20 godina,

this community had backed my work, I'd played footy there,

ova zajednica je podržavala moj posao, tu sam igrao australijski fudbal,

I'd done theater there,

glumio u predstavama,

I was so grateful for what they'd given me.

bio sam toliko zahvalan na onome što su mi pružili.

But I was standing there in that space,

Ali, stajao sam u tom prostoru

and I was looking around that hall as well,

i gledao po toj mesnoj zajednici

and I could tell people in that hall

i mogao sam prepoznati ljude u njoj

who were struggling with alcohol, drugs, finance, gambling,

koji su se borili sa alkoholom, drogom, novcem, kockanjem,

domestic abuse, bullying and harassment.

porodičnim i vršnjačkim nasiljem i uznemiravanjem.

Yet because of my tradie culture

A opet, zbog svoje kulture trejdija

and that ignorant attitude that we have in the tradie community,

i tog zatucanog stava koji imamo u zajednici trejdija,

I didn't feel confident at all.

nisam se nimalo osećao samouverenim.

I didn't have the tools. I lacked the experience.

Nisam imao sredstva. Nedostajalo mi je iskustvo.

I didn't know what to do, but I wanted to do something.

Nisam znao šta da uradim, ali sam želeo da uradim nešto.

I left the wake.

Napustio sam daću.

I hugged a few tradie mates and said,

Zagrlio sam nekoliko ortaka trejdija i rekao:

"Please come and see me if you need to."

„Molim te, svrati do mene ako treba.“

But I didn't know what to say to them or what to tell them.

Ali, nisam znao šta da im kažem ili da im ispričam.

I had no idea.

Nisam imao pojma.

Dve nedelje kasnije nazvala me je Ketrin Pilgrim, moj suosnivač,

I got a phone call two weeks later from Catherine Pilgrim, my cofounder,

wanting to do something for the family.

koja je htela da uradi nešto za porodicu.

We talked for a while and I said,

Malo smo razgovarali i rekao sam:

let's do something for the tradie community.

„Hajde da učinimo nešto za zajednicu trejdija.

We love our town, we're grateful,

Volimo naš grad, zahvalni smo,

let's do something for the tradie community.

učinimo nešto za zajednicu trejdija.“

So we talked a bit more.

Još malo smo razgovarali.

What could we do?

Šta bismo mogli uraditi?

An awareness-raising event. Awesome.

Događaj za podizanje svesti. Strava.

We're talking about tradies.

Pričamo o trejdijima.

How do you get tradies somewhere?

Kako da trejdije dovedete negde?

Can you get them to a hospital? No.

Možete li da ih dovedete u bolnicu? Ne.

To a community health center? No.

U društveni dom zdravlja? Ne.

There's an ingrained culture of being a tradie.

Postoji ukorenjena kultura trejdija.

I thought, where is the perfect place we can get the tradies together

Pomislio sam: „Koje mesto je savršeno za okupljanje trejdija,

where they feel socially included

gde se osećaju društveno prihvaćenim

and they feel comfortable

i gde se osećaju prijatno

and they can share, they can open up and talk about mental health

i mogu da dele, da se otvore i razgovaraju o mentalnom zdravlju

in the building industry?

u građevinskoj industriji?“

Where can we have an event?

Gde možemo da organizujemo događaj?

A hardware store.

Prodavnica alata.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought it was very clever.

Da, to sam i ja pomislio. Pomislio sam da je veoma pametno.

More precisely, the timber yard of a hardware store.

Preciznije, drvno stovarište prodavnice alata.

So there we were. OK, we've got the venue.

Dakle, tu smo. Okej, imamo prostor.

What else do we need?

Šta nam još treba?

What else do tradies love?

Šta još vole trejdiji?

Food.

Hranu.

I know, we all do, but tradies love food.

Znam, i svi mi, ali trejdiji vole hranu.

Tradies especially, and I'm a tradie myself,

Trejdiji pogotovo, a i ja sam trejdi,

we love egg and bacon rolls.

volimo rolnice jaja i slanine.

So we thought we'd supply the tradies with egg and bacon rolls,

Tako smo mislili da opskrbimo trejdije rolnicama jaja i slanine,

and there was the slogan:

i pojavio se slogan:

save your bacon.

„Sačuvaj svoje salce.“

It's a bit corny, but it sort of works.

Malo je izlizano, ali nekako i funkcioniše.

And we also came up with a logo.

A smislili smo i logo.

"Hope Assistance Local Tradies."

„Nada i pomoć za lokalne trejdije“.

Keep in mind, "HALT," our charity, had no money to begin,

Imajte na umu, HALT, naša humanitarna organizacija, nije imala novca da započne,

nothing, not a single cent.

ništa, ni centa.

We had conversations.

Razgovarali smo.

This is a community issue. It starts in community.

Ovo je problem zajednice. Počinje u zajednici.

So we went around to the butcher, we went around to the baker,

Zato smo otišli do mesara, otišli smo do pekara,

there was no candlestick maker,

nije postojao svećar,

there was an egg place and there was some chocolate,

postojalo je mesto sa jajima i bilo je čokolade,

there was coffee, there was fruit,

bilo je kafe, voća,

but we went around and said,

ali obilazili smo ih i rekli:

"Hey, we're doing this awareness-raising event.

„Hej, organizujemo događaj za podizanje svesti.

Do you want to contribute? Because we haven't got any money."

Želite li da doprinesete? Jer nemamo novca.“

Of course, nearly every person we initiated the conversation with

Naravno, gotovo svako sa kime smo započeli razgovor

knew someone that had anxiety, depression or thoughts of suicide

znao je nekog ko ima anksioznost, depresiju ili suicidalne misli

or had suicided.

ili je izvršio samoubistvo.

There was that unity,

Postojalo je to jedinstvo,

that whole of community approach.

taj pristup čitave zajednice.

So we thought, that's great, we've got some food.

Zato smo pomislili: „To je super, imamo hranu.

What else do we need?

Šta nam još treba?

We need the support services there.

Tamo nam trebaju usluge podrške.“

A lot of tradies, and a lot of men in general,

Mnogo trejdija i muškaraca generalno

don't necessarily know where to go and get help.

ne znaju nužno gde da odu i zatraže pomoć.

I myself was one of them,

I sam sam bio jedan od njih,

and this is what I talk about at the HALT events,

i o tome pričam na HALT-ovim događajima,

that four years ago when I founded HALT,

da pre četiri godine kada sam osnovao HALT

I didn't know I could go to the doctor about my mental health

nisam znao da mogu da odem kod doktora zbog svog mentalnog zdravlja

and get a mental health plan.

i da dobijem plan za njega.

I didn't know about community health.

Nisam znao za javnu zdravstvenu zaštitu.

I certainly didn't know about Lifeline,

Svakako nisam znao za Lajflajn,

and I've called Lifeline three times,

a zvao sam Lajflajn tri puta

and they've certainly potentially saved my life.

i bez sumnje su mi potencijalno spasili život.

I had to learn all these things.

Ove stvari sam morao da naučim.

Tradies need to know them.

Trejdiji moraju da ih znaju.

We provided bags,

Obezbedili smo vreće,

bags of information,

vreće sa informacijama,

and I had quite a few tradies say to me in the first year,

i nemali broj trejdija mi je rekao u prvoj godini:

"Aw, this is a load of you-know-what,"

„Au, ovo je gomila znaš-već-čega“,

but those tradies I know still have those bags in their Ute

ali ti trejdiji koje znam i dalje imaju te vreće u kamionu

or in their shed.

ili u šupi.

On November 10, 2013,

Desetog novembra 2013. godine,

we had our event,

održali smo okupljanje,

and interestingly enough, when I talk about a whole of community approach,

i da stvar bude zanimljivija, kada pričam o pristupu čitave zajednice,

that was our first event in Castlemaine at Tonks Brothers,

to je bio naš prvi događaj u Kaslmejnu kod Braće Tonks,

and there's a whole of community there.

a postoji cela jedna zajednica tamo.

There's counselors,

Tu su savetnici,

there's people who have gone through mental health.

ljudi koji su se bavili mentalnim zdravljem.

That first event set the scene.

Taj prvi događaj je udario temelje.

Since then, we've had more events.

Od tada smo imali još događaja.

Interestingly enough, it's not only tradies

Zanimljivo je da nisu samo trejdiji

that are affected by mental health or anxiety or depression or suicide.

pogođeni mentalnim zdravljem, anksioznošću, depresijom ili samoubistvom.

We started working with TAFEs.

Počeli smo da radimo sa visokim školama.

We started working in the farming industry,

Počeli smo da radimo u poljoprivrednoj industriji,

at councils, at secondary colleges.

u odborima, srednjim školama.

We did events for the partners of tradies,

Pravili smo događaje za partnere trejdija,

because often the tradies would not go home to their partners

jer se često trejdiji ne bi vratili kući partnerima

and say, "Guess what, we talked about mental health,

i rekli: „Znaš šta, pričali smo o mentalnom zdravlju

and we're going to do this, this and this now."

i sada ćemo da uradimo to, to i to.“

So we're doing events for the partners,

Dakle, pravimo događaje za partnere,

who themselves may need help.

kojima takođe možda treba pomoć.

TAFEs are very popular.

Više škole su vrlo popularne.

For me, it's really crucial to get to these young, vulnerable men and women.

Po mom mišljenju, ključno je dopreti

do ovih mladih, ranjivih momaka i devojaka.

We've done events for men's sheds,

Organizovali smo događaje za muške sigurne kuće,

so the high rate of suicide is really high for older men.

jer je stopa samoubistava zaista visoka kod starijih muškaraca.

We've done events for council depot workers and tradies.

Organizovali smo događaje za radnike depoa veća i trejdije.

Interestingly enough,

Zanimljivo,

nearly every single event --

gotovo svaki događaj -

and we've actually done now, with very little funding,

a do sada smo zapravo imali, sa veoma malo finansiranja,

150 events over four states.

150 događaja u četiri države.

So -- oh please, thank you.

Tako da - o, molim vas, hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And invariably at every single HALT event at a hardware store,

I bez izuzetka na svakom HALT-ovom događaju u prodavnici alata,

I have one tradie come up to me,

jedan trejdi mi priđe,

at least one come up and tell me about his suicide attempt.

minimum jedan mi priđe i ispriča mi o svom pokušaju samoubistva.

They're not suicidal there and then, they've worked through it,

Nisu suicidalni tada i tamo, prebrodili su to,

but these men have never felt they could share their vulnerabilities.

ali ti muškarci nikada nisu osećali da mogu da podele svoju ranjivost.

They've never felt they can talk about their suicide attempt,

Nikada nisu osećali da mogu da pričaju o pokušaju samoubistva,

but the HALT events,

ali HALT-ovi događaji,

where there's no expectations for them to talk,

gde se od njih ne očekuje da pričaju,

makes them feel comfortable to start talking.

čine da se osećaju bezbedno da počnu.

And it's not just they talk to me and tell me their story,

I nije to da mi oni samo ispričaju svoju priču;

they actually now say,

oni sada zapravo izgovore:

"We feel comfortable enough to talk with other men."

„Osećamo se dovoljno opušteno da razgovaramo sa drugim muškarcima.“

I've had men stand up and say,

Muškarci nekad ustanu i kažu:

"I've never mentioned before that I've had depression, but I have,

„Nikada ranije nisam spomenuo da sam depresivan, ali jesam,

and if anyone else here wants to come and speak to me,

i ako još neko ovde želi da mi se obrati,

I'm here to talk to you."

tu sam da razgovaramo.“

It's very empowering and cathartic to do that.

Vrlo je osnažujuće i katartično uraditi to.

We need a whole-of-community approach.

Potreban nam je pristup cele zajednice.

We give the tradies bags of information from local and national support services.

Trejdijima dajemo kese sa informacijama od lokalnih i nacionalnih službi podrške.

It's one of thing to tell a tradie or someone at one of these events,

Jedno je reći trejdiju ili nekome na jednom od ovih događaja:

„Trebalo bi da odeš tamo i tamo“,

"You should go here, here and here,"

but we need the whole of community

već nam treba da čitava zajednica

to wrap around the idea of suicide prevention.

razume ideju prevencije samoubistva.

We need those services,

Potrebne su nam te usluge,

and suicide doesn't discriminate at all.

a samoubistvo uopšte ne bira.

It's not a 9-to-5 thing.

Nije to stvar od devet do pet.

We need to do events before 9am, which most of our brekkies are,

Trebaju nam događaji pre devet ujutru, što je vreme kada većina nas doručkuje,

and after 5 PM.

i posle pet popodne.

That's what we need to do. It's a whole-of-community approach.

To moramo da uradimo. To je pristup čitave zajednice.

We need to get into businesses.

Treba da dopremo do kompanija.

We need to get into sporting clubs, community clubs.

Treba da dopremo do sportskih klubova,

klubova zajednice.

We need to get in there and train people

Treba da odemo tamo i obučimo ljude

to understand about mental health.

da razumeju mentalno zdravlje.

Here's some sobering statistics just to give you an idea.

Evo nekoliko otrežnjujućih činjenica da biste stekli sliku.

In 2016,

U 2016. godini,

in Australia, 2,866 suicides,

u Australiji, 2 866 samoubistava,

very close to twice the road toll.

gotovo duplo od smrti u saobraćaju.

Globally, 800,000 a year

Globalno, 800 hiljada samoubistava

godišnje u svetu,

suicides in the world,

one every 40 seconds.

jedno svakih 40 sekundi.

We need a whole-of-community approach.

Potreban nam je pristup čitave zajednice.

We need to feel comfortable in opening up the conversations.

Treba da se osećamo slobodnim da započnemo razgovor.

Men I know find it really difficult to open up conversations.

Znam da je muškarcima to pogotovo teško.

They certainly do.

Zaista jeste.

If you're going to open up conversations, I tell the guys,

Ako ćete započeti razgovore, kažem momcima:

you need to find a comfortable place to open up and have a conversation,

„Morate naći opušteno mesto da se otvorite i razgovarate,

whether it's at the pub, it's going for a walk,

bilo u pabu, u šetnji,

it's after footy.

posle fudbala.

Find that really comfortable place to have the conversation.

Nađite to zaista prijatno mesto za razgovor.“

Part of the ability to have that conversation

Deo mogućnosti da razgovarate

is to understand what to say.

je da shvatite šta reći.

We've all heard about, "Are you OK?"

Svi smo čuli za: „Da li si okej?“

And I've seen it. I've done this.

I video sam to. Radio sam to.

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "Yes."

„Da li si okej?“ „Da.“ „Da li si okej?“ „Da.“

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "No."

„Da li si okej?“ „Da.“ „Da li si okej?“ „Ne.“

What do I say now?

Šta sad da kažem?

What do I say?

Šta da kažem?

We need to equip every single person

Moramo osposobiti baš svakoga

with the ability to come forth

da može da istupi

and be able to have that conversation.

i bude sposoban da vodi taj razgovor.

We need to be able to listen.

Moramo biti sposobni da saslušamo.

I don't know who out there is a good listener.

Ne znam ko je od vas dobar u slušanju.

I'm working on my listening abilities,

Ja radim na svojim veštinama slušanja,

but it's an art form to listen and not judge.

ali prava je umetnost slušati bez osude.

Don't make fun. If someone's coming to talk to you about mental illness

Nemojte ismevati.

Ako neko dođe da sa vama razgovara o mentalnim bolestima,

and anxiety and depression and thoughts of suicide,

ansksioznosti, depresiji i mislima o samoubistvu,

we need to respect that.

moramo to da poštujemo.

They want to trust us that we're going to hold that in tight

Žele da nam veruju da ćemo to zadržati za sebe

and not tell everyone.

i nećemo svima ispričati.

We need to do that.

Moramo to da uradimo.

So we need to have conversations. We need to listen.

Dakle, moramo da razgovaramo. Moramo da slušamo.

And we need to start reducing the stigma associated with mental health.

I moramo da počnemo da smanjujemo stigmu u vezi sa mentalnim zdravljem.

Companies are now starting to have mental health days.

Kompanije sada počinju da imaju dane mentalnog zdravlja.

What a great idea.

Kakva sjajna ideja.

It's not just physical sick days, it's mental health days.

Nema samo običnog bolovanja, već dana mentalnog zdravlja.

Things are changing. We can add to that change.

Stvari se menjaju. Možemo doprineti tim promenama.

I'm a life preserver.

Ja čuvam život.

I think we can all be life preservers.

Mislim da svi možemo da ih čuvamo.

The pain of regret

Bol kajanja

is far greater than the pain of hard work.

je daleko veći od bola napornog rada.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)