How to start a conversation about suicide | Jeremy Forbes

翻译人员: psjmz mz 校对人员: Bangyou Xiang

In 2013,

2013 年，

I had a life-changing epiphany.

我遇到了改变人生的一刻。

I was a painter and decorator

我是维多利亚州中部

in Castlemaine, a small country town in central Victoria.

一个名叫卡索曼的小镇上的 一名油漆工和装饰师。

I'd gone to see Pete, who was renowned for his workmanship with steel.

我去找皮特，他以精湛的 钢铁手艺而小有名气。

I'd gone to his shed to get some steel edging for the garden.

我打算到他的工棚里 取些钢材给花园嵌边。

This day, with hindsight, which is a wonderful gift,

事后想想，那天是一份很棒的礼物，

Pete seemed happier than usual.

皮特看起来比往常更开心。

Two weeks later,

两周后，

I was painting a house down the end of Pete's street

当我在给皮特家街道尽头的 一栋房子喷漆时，

when I heard the tragic news.

我听到了噩耗。

Pete had suicided.

皮特自杀了。

Pete, like myself, was a tradie, or a tradesman.

跟我一样，皮特也是个技工， 或者叫技术工人——

We do like to shorten things in the Australian vernacular.

我们澳大利亚本地人 都喜欢省略——

A tradie.

一位技工。

There was an expectation as a tradie.

大家对技工有种预期。

You're expected to be stoic.

你应该是坚忍的，

You're expected to be strong,

你应该是坚强的，

robust, macho.

健壮的，有男子气概。

You're expected to be tough physically

你应该身强力壮，

and silent in the face of adversity.

并且在逆境中保持沉默。

There is a pronounced ripple effect

当社区中有人自杀时，

when someone suicides in your community.

明显会产生涟漪效应。

Pete's funeral was in July. It was winter.

皮特的葬礼在 7 月的冬天举行。

The mood was bleak and somber

拥挤的社区大厅里

in the packed community hall.

气氛抑郁而阴沉。

It was a grieving community

这个悲伤的社区

who had no answers

无人知晓

to Pete's suicide,

皮特自杀的原因，

no answers at all.

一点线索也没有。

As I wandered around between the tradies and the community members,

当我在技工和社区成员间游走时，

I started hearing some tones of another underlying tragic level.

我开始听到另一个 潜在的悲剧的论调。

I heard people talking in that community hall

我听到有人在那个社区大厅

about the struggles other people were going through.

说到还有其他人正在为生存而挣扎。

The essence of the conversations was contained in two words

这些谈话的核心就两个词，

that I heard several times:

我听到了好几次：

Who's next?

下一个会是谁？

Who's next?

下一个会是谁？

That was the epiphany.

这真是当头一棒。

That was the moment where I was standing in a community hall

那一刻我所在的这个社区大厅，

in a place where this Castlemaine community

这个卡索曼的社区，

had given me such support for 20 years,

过去 20 年曾给我如此多的支持，

this community had backed my work, I'd played footy there,

保障了我的工作， 我在这打过澳式足球，

I'd done theater there,

在这做过剧院，

I was so grateful for what they'd given me.

我对他们给予我的一切充满感激。

But I was standing there in that space,

但当时我站在那里,

and I was looking around that hall as well,

同时也四处打量大厅里的人，

and I could tell people in that hall

我能辨别出大厅里

who were struggling with alcohol, drugs, finance, gambling,

哪些人深陷酗酒、 吸毒、财务问题、赌博、

domestic abuse, bullying and harassment.

家暴、欺凌和骚扰之中。

Yet because of my tradie culture

但是因为我们的技工文化

and that ignorant attitude that we have in the tradie community,

以及我们技工群体里的 那种无知的心态，

I didn't feel confident at all.

我对改善现状毫无信心。

I didn't have the tools. I lacked the experience.

我没有工具，缺乏经验。

I didn't know what to do, but I wanted to do something.

我不知道该做什么，但我想做点什么。

I left the wake.

我从沉思中回过神来。

I hugged a few tradie mates and said,

我拥抱了几位技工伙伴，并说，

"Please come and see me if you need to."

“如需帮助，请来找我。”

But I didn't know what to say to them or what to tell them.

但我不知道该向他们说什么， 或者告诉他们什么。

I had no idea.

我毫无头绪。

两周后，我接到我的合伙人 凯瑟琳·皮尔格林的电话。

I got a phone call two weeks later from Catherine Pilgrim, my cofounder,

wanting to do something for the family.

她想为这个大家庭做点事情。

We talked for a while and I said,

我们聊了一会儿，我说，

let's do something for the tradie community.

让我们为技工群体做点事情。

We love our town, we're grateful,

我们爱我们的城镇，对它充满感激。

let's do something for the tradie community.

让我们为技工团体做点事情。

So we talked a bit more.

于是我们进行了更深入的交谈。

What could we do?

我们能够做什么？

An awareness-raising event. Awesome.

举办一场意识觉醒活动，太棒了。

We're talking about tradies.

我们谈论的是技工。

How do you get tradies somewhere?

你如何能够接触到技工？

Can you get them to a hospital? No.

在医院吗？不能。

To a community health center? No.

在社区健康中心吗？也不能。

There's an ingrained culture of being a tradie.

技工群体有自己根深蒂固的文化。

I thought, where is the perfect place we can get the tradies together

我在想，建筑行业中哪里是 聚集技工的最完美地点，

where they feel socially included

在那里他们可以具有归属感，

and they feel comfortable

感到舒适，

and they can share, they can open up and talk about mental health

可以分享，可以开诚布公地谈论

in the building industry?

精神健康问题？

Where can we have an event?

我们可以在哪里举办活动？

A hardware store.

是五金店。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought it was very clever.

没错，我也是这么想的。 我觉得这是个好主意。

更确切地说，是在五金店的木场里。

More precisely, the timber yard of a hardware store.

So there we were. OK, we've got the venue.

第一步达成。 好的，我们有场地了。

What else do we need?

我们还需要什么？

What else do tradies love?

技工们喜欢什么？

Food.

食物。

I know, we all do, but tradies love food.

我知道，我们都如此， 但技工喜爱食物。

Tradies especially, and I'm a tradie myself,

技工尤其喜欢—— 我本身也是技工——

we love egg and bacon rolls.

我们尤其喜欢鸡蛋和熏肉卷。

So we thought we'd supply the tradies with egg and bacon rolls,

所以我们打算为技工们 提供鸡蛋和熏肉卷。

and there was the slogan:

而我们的口号是：

save your bacon.

省点熏肉。

It's a bit corny, but it sort of works.

这有点老套，但它很管用。

And we also came up with a logo.

我们同样也想到了个标志。

"Hope Assistance Local Tradies."

“当地技工希望援助”（HALT）

Keep in mind, "HALT," our charity, had no money to begin,

要知道，我们的慈善组织 HALT，并没有启动资金，

nothing, not a single cent.

一分钱也没有。

We had conversations.

我们有一张嘴。

This is a community issue. It starts in community.

这是社区的问题，从社区开始。

So we went around to the butcher, we went around to the baker,

所以我们去找屠夫，我们去找面包师。

there was no candlestick maker,

镇上没有烛台制造者，

there was an egg place and there was some chocolate,

这个地方有鸡蛋，那个地方有巧克力，

there was coffee, there was fruit,

这里有咖啡，那里有水果。

当我们到处去游说，

but we went around and said,

"Hey, we're doing this awareness-raising event.

“嗨，我们在筹划意识觉醒活动，

Do you want to contribute? Because we haven't got any money."

你愿意捐助吗？因为我们没钱。”

Of course, nearly every person we initiated the conversation with

当然，几乎每个我们发起聊天的人

knew someone that had anxiety, depression or thoughts of suicide

都认识有抑郁症 或有自杀的念头的人，

or had suicided.

或者已经自杀了的人。

There was that unity,

这是一种团结

that whole of community approach.

整个社区的方法。

So we thought, that's great, we've got some food.

于是我们想，挺好，我们有食物了。

What else do we need?

我们还需要什么？

We need the support services there.

我们需要后勤服务。

A lot of tradies, and a lot of men in general,

很多技工——大部分都是男性——

don't necessarily know where to go and get help.

并不知道去哪里获得帮助。

I myself was one of them,

我自己就是其中之一，

and this is what I talk about at the HALT events,

而这是我在 HALT 活动上说的，

that four years ago when I founded HALT,

当我 4 年前成立 HALT 时，

I didn't know I could go to the doctor about my mental health

我不知道有心理问题时 可以去看医生，

and get a mental health plan.

制定一个心理健康计划。

I didn't know about community health.

我不知道社区健康。

I certainly didn't know about Lifeline,

我当然更不知道“生命热线”，

and I've called Lifeline three times,

而目前为止，我已经拨打过 三次“生命热线”了，

and they've certainly potentially saved my life.

他们无疑潜移默化地 挽救了我的生命。

I had to learn all these things.

我必须学习所有这些东西。

Tradies need to know them.

技工们需要了解这些。

We provided bags,

我们提供袋子，

bags of information,

一袋袋的信息，

and I had quite a few tradies say to me in the first year,

在第一年，有不少人跟我说，

"Aw, this is a load of you-know-what,"

“哦，这是一袋 ‘技工须知’ ，”

but those tradies I know still have those bags in their Ute

而那些我认识的技工现在 仍把这些袋子放在皮卡车里，

or in their shed.

或者他们的小屋里。

On November 10, 2013,

在 2013 年 11 月 10 日,

we had our event,

我们举办了这场活动。

and interestingly enough, when I talk about a whole of community approach,

有趣的是，当我谈到 整个社区的方案时，

that was our first event in Castlemaine at Tonks Brothers,

那是我们在卡索曼唐克斯 兄弟会的首次活动，

and there's a whole of community there.

整个社区的人都在那里，

There's counselors,

有辅导员，

there's people who have gone through mental health.

还有受到心理健康问题 困扰的居民。

That first event set the scene.

首次活动就定下了基调。

Since then, we've had more events.

自那开始，我们有了更多的活动。

Interestingly enough, it's not only tradies

有趣的是，远不止技工群体，

that are affected by mental health or anxiety or depression or suicide.

其他群体也受到了精神健康问题 或者抑郁、焦虑、自杀情绪的影响。

We started working with TAFEs.

我们开始与职业技术 教育学院（TAFEs）合作，

We started working in the farming industry,

我们开始进入农业，

at councils, at secondary colleges.

去市政厅，去二级学院。

We did events for the partners of tradies,

我们也为技工的伴侣举办活动，

because often the tradies would not go home to their partners

因为技工回到家 通常不会告诉他们的伴侣，

and say, "Guess what, we talked about mental health,

“猜猜看？我们谈论了精神健康问题，

and we're going to do this, this and this now."

我们现在要做这个，做那个。”

So we're doing events for the partners,

于是我们为伴侣们举办活动，

who themselves may need help.

他们自己本身可能也需要帮助。

TAFEs are very popular.

TAFEs 非常受欢迎，

For me, it's really crucial to get to these young, vulnerable men and women.

对我而言，接触这些年轻、 敏感脆弱的男性和女性很重要。

We've done events for men's sheds,

我们为“男人工棚”举办活动，

so the high rate of suicide is really high for older men.

老年人中的自杀率是很高的。

We've done events for council depot workers and tradies.

我们为仓库工人和技工举办活动。

Interestingly enough,

最有意思的是，

nearly every single event --

几乎每场活动——

and we've actually done now, with very little funding,

目前为止，我们在几乎没有 任何资金援助的情况下,

150 events over four states.

已经在 4 个州举办过 150 场活动。

So -- oh please, thank you.

因此——谢谢。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

And invariably at every single HALT event at a hardware store,

在五金店举办的每一场救助活动中，

I have one tradie come up to me,

几乎都有技工跑来跟我说，

at least one come up and tell me about his suicide attempt.

至少一个技工告诉过我 他的自杀企图。

They're not suicidal there and then, they've worked through it,

他们最终没有自杀，他们挺过来了，

but these men have never felt they could share their vulnerabilities.

但这些人从没有想到过 要分享他们脆弱的一面。

They've never felt they can talk about their suicide attempt,

他们从来没觉得可以 谈论他们自杀的想法，

but the HALT events,

但救助大会，

where there's no expectations for them to talk,

这个不指望他们会说出来的地方，

makes them feel comfortable to start talking.

让他们感到舒适， 愿意开诚布公地谈话。

And it's not just they talk to me and tell me their story,

而且他们不仅是跟我聊， 告诉我他们的故事,

they actually now say,

实际上他们现在还说，

"We feel comfortable enough to talk with other men."

“我们可以放心地去 跟其他人聊这些了。”

I've had men stand up and say,

有个人曾站起来对我说，

"I've never mentioned before that I've had depression, but I have,

“以前我从未跟人提起过 我有抑郁症，但我确实有，

and if anyone else here wants to come and speak to me,

如果这里有谁要来跟我聊，

I'm here to talk to you."

我非常欢迎。”

It's very empowering and cathartic to do that.

能够一吐为快有着强大的力量。

We need a whole-of-community approach.

我们需要一项社区整体方案。

We give the tradies bags of information from local and national support services.

我们给了技工一袋子的信息， 包括了本地和全国的救助服务。

It's one of thing to tell a tradie or someone at one of these events,

但除了在这些活动中 告诉技工或其他人

“你应该去这里，去那里”，

"You should go here, here and here,"

but we need the whole of community

我们同样也需要社会整体

to wrap around the idea of suicide prevention.

去重视自杀的预防。

We need those services,

我们需要这些服务，

and suicide doesn't discriminate at all.

任何人在任何时间都有可能自杀。

It's not a 9-to-5 thing.

这不是朝九晚五的事情。

We need to do events before 9am, which most of our brekkies are,

我们需要在 9 点之前做活动， 也就是我们多数人吃早餐的时候，

and after 5 PM.

以及下午 5 点之后。

That's what we need to do. It's a whole-of-community approach.

那就是我们需要做的， 一个社会层面的方案。

We need to get into businesses.

我们需要深入商业机构，

We need to get into sporting clubs, community clubs.

我们需要进入体育馆，社区俱乐部。

We need to get in there and train people

我们需要进去并培训人们

to understand about mental health.

去了解精神健康问题。

Here's some sobering statistics just to give you an idea.

这里有一些不容乐观的统计数据， 好让大家有个了解。

In 2016,

2016 年，

in Australia, 2,866 suicides,

在澳大利亚，有 2866 人自杀，

very close to twice the road toll.

接近道路交通事故 致死人数的 2 倍。

Globally, 800,000 a year

全球，每年有 80 万人

suicides in the world,

自杀，

one every 40 seconds.

平均每 40 秒就有一个人自杀。

We need a whole-of-community approach.

我们需要全社会层面的解决方案，

We need to feel comfortable in opening up the conversations.

我们需要对展开对话感到自然。

Men I know find it really difficult to open up conversations.

我认识的人认为， 张口说这些非常困难。

They certainly do.

这的确很难。

If you're going to open up conversations, I tell the guys,

我告诉他们，如果你打算开口，

you need to find a comfortable place to open up and have a conversation,

你需要找个舒适的地方 去开始一场谈话，

whether it's at the pub, it's going for a walk,

不管是在酒馆，还是散步时，

it's after footy.

或是在足球赛后。

Find that really comfortable place to have the conversation.

找个真正让你舒服的地方来开展对话。

Part of the ability to have that conversation

开展这类对话的一部分能力就是

is to understand what to say.

懂得说什么。

We've all heard about, "Are you OK?"

我们都听说过，“你还好吗？”

And I've seen it. I've done this.

我看到过，我也这么做过。

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "Yes."

“你还好吗？” “是的。” “你还好吗？” “是的。”

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "No."

“你还好吗？” “是的。” “你还好吗？” “不好。”

What do I say now?

那我现在该说什么呢？

What do I say?

我该说什么？

We need to equip every single person

我们需要武装每一个人，

with the ability to come forth

让他们拥有能力

and be able to have that conversation.

去进行那样的对话。

We need to be able to listen.

我们需要具备倾听的能力。

I don't know who out there is a good listener.

我不知道谁是好听众。

I'm working on my listening abilities,

我正在提升我的倾听能力。

but it's an art form to listen and not judge.

但去倾听而非评判，是门艺术。

Don't make fun. If someone's coming to talk to you about mental illness

不要取笑别人。 如果有人前来跟你聊精神疾病、

and anxiety and depression and thoughts of suicide,

焦虑和抑郁，以及自杀的想法的话，

we need to respect that.

我们需要对他们表示尊重。

They want to trust us that we're going to hold that in tight

他们想要相信我们会保守秘密，

and not tell everyone.

不告诉任何人。

We need to do that.

我们需要做到。

So we need to have conversations. We need to listen.

所以我们需要对话，我们需要倾听。

And we need to start reducing the stigma associated with mental health.

我们需要开始减少 跟心理健康相关的污名化。

Companies are now starting to have mental health days.

有公司现在开始有了心理健康日。

What a great idea.

这是多么好的主意啊。

It's not just physical sick days, it's mental health days.

不再只是生理上的病假， 还有心理健康假。

Things are changing. We can add to that change.

事情在发生变化， 我们可以助力这种变化。

I'm a life preserver.

我是生命的守护者，

I think we can all be life preservers.

我想我们都能成为生命守护者。

The pain of regret

悔恨的痛苦

is far greater than the pain of hard work.

远甚于艰苦劳作的痛苦。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）