How to start a conversation about suicide | Jeremy Forbes

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 易帆 余

In 2013,

2013 年，

I had a life-changing epiphany.

我體會到了一件改變我人生的頓悟。

I was a painter and decorator

我當時是個油漆工和室內裝潢師，

in Castlemaine, a small country town in central Victoria.

我住在維多利亞中部的 一個鄉間小鎮，卡索曼。

I'd gone to see Pete, who was renowned for his workmanship with steel.

我去找彼得是因為 他的鋼製工藝品非常聞名。

I'd gone to his shed to get some steel edging for the garden.

我都會去他的庫房 買些鋼製的花草修邊刀具。

This day, with hindsight, which is a wonderful gift,

這天，事後我才知道， 是老天給我的禮物，

Pete seemed happier than usual.

彼得這天看上去比平常開心。

Two weeks later,

兩週後，

I was painting a house down the end of Pete's street

我在彼得住的那條街尾 油漆一間房子時，

when I heard the tragic news.

聽到了悲劇的消息。

Pete had suicided.

彼得自殺了。

Pete, like myself, was a tradie, or a tradesman.

彼得和我一樣， 是個做工仔人，或工匠。

We do like to shorten things in the Australian vernacular.

在澳洲我們都喜歡用行話來簡稱。

A tradie.

做工仔人。

There was an expectation as a tradie.

在澳洲，大家對工人有個既定印象。

You're expected to be stoic.

你會被認為是堅忍不拔的。

You're expected to be strong,

你會被認為是強壯、

robust, macho.

穩健、有男子氣概的。

You're expected to be tough physically

你會被認為有強悍的身體，

and silent in the face of adversity.

面對逆境時也不會跟別人說。

There is a pronounced ripple effect

當你的社區中有人自殺時，

when someone suicides in your community.

會有一個明顯的漣漪作用。

Pete's funeral was in July. It was winter.

彼得的葬禮辦在七月。 當時是冬天。

The mood was bleak and somber

現場氣氛很陰冷、憂鬱，

in the packed community hall.

地點是在擁擠的社區廳堂。

It was a grieving community

社區充滿著哀悼的氣氛，

who had no answers

關於彼得的自殺

to Pete's suicide,

大家都沒有答案，

no answers at all.

完全沒有人知道怎麼回事。

As I wandered around between the tradies and the community members,

當我在工人和 社區成員之間來回穿梭時，

I started hearing some tones of another underlying tragic level.

我開始聽到一些聲音， 那是另一種檯面下的悲傷境界。

I heard people talking in that community hall

我聽到大家在社區廳堂中的談話，

about the struggles other people were going through.

談論其他人正在經歷的痛苦。

The essence of the conversations was contained in two words

我聽到的這些對話內容，

that I heard several times:

可以用這句話來濃縮概括：

Who's next?

誰是下一個？

Who's next?

誰是下一個？

That was the epiphany.

那就是我說的頓悟。

That was the moment where I was standing in a community hall

就在那一刻，我站在社區廳堂裡，

in a place where this Castlemaine community

在這個地方，這個卡索曼社區

had given me such support for 20 years,

在二十年間都一直 給予我很大的支持，

this community had backed my work, I'd played footy there,

這個社區支助我的工作， 我在這個社區踢足球，

I'd done theater there,

我在這個社區拍過戲劇，

I was so grateful for what they'd given me.

我很感謝他們給我的一切。

But I was standing there in that space,

但當我站在那個空間裡，

and I was looking around that hall as well,

環視著廳堂的四周，

and I could tell people in that hall

我可以分辨得出在廳堂中的那些人，

who were struggling with alcohol, drugs, finance, gambling,

哪些人正在努力對抗酒精、 毒品、財務問題、賭博、

domestic abuse, bullying and harassment.

家暴、霸凌以及騷擾。

Yet because of my tradie culture

然而，因為我的工人文化，

and that ignorant attitude that we have in the tradie community,

以及在工人社區中 我們的那種無知程度，

I didn't feel confident at all.

讓我完全沒有信心。

I didn't have the tools. I lacked the experience.

我沒有方法。我缺乏經驗。

I didn't know what to do, but I wanted to do something.

我不知道該做什麼， 但我想要做點什麼。

I left the wake.

我離開了靈堂。

I hugged a few tradie mates and said,

我擁抱了幾位工人伙伴，並說：

"Please come and see me if you need to."

「如果你有需要，請隨時來找我。」

But I didn't know what to say to them or what to tell them.

但我不知道該對他們說什麼， 或該告訴他們什麼。

I had no idea.

我沒有頭緒。

I got a phone call two weeks later from Catherine Pilgrim, my cofounder,

兩週後，我接到我的共同創辦人 凱瑟琳皮爾格林姆打來的電話，

wanting to do something for the family.

她想要為這個家庭做點什麼。

We talked for a while and I said,

我們談了一會兒，我說，

let's do something for the tradie community.

咱們來為工人社群做點什麼。

We love our town, we're grateful,

我們愛我們的小鎮，我們很感恩，

let's do something for the tradie community.

咱們來為工人社群做點什麼。

So we talked a bit more.

我們又多談了些，我們能做什麼？

What could we do?

An awareness-raising event. Awesome.

一個了解自殺意識的宣導活動。

棒極了。

We're talking about tradies.

我們談起了工人。

How do you get tradies somewhere?

你要如何把工人聚在一起？

Can you get them to a hospital? No.

你要叫工人去醫院嗎？不行。

To a community health center? No.

去社區的健康中心？不行。

There's an ingrained culture of being a tradie.

工人有一種固執的文化。

I thought, where is the perfect place we can get the tradies together

我在想，哪一個地方最適合 把工人集合在一起，

where they feel socially included

讓他們覺得在社會上能被包容

and they feel comfortable

且很自在，

and they can share, they can open up and talk about mental health

讓他們可以分享、敞開心胸，

談論建築行業裡的心理健康？

in the building industry?

Where can we have an event?

我們能在哪裡辦活動？

A hardware store.

五金行（澳洲的五金行都很大間）。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought it was very clever.

是啊，我也這麼想。 我覺得這點子很聰明。

更明確來說，是在 五金行堆置木材的地方。

More precisely, the timber yard of a hardware store.

So there we were. OK, we've got the venue.

所以，就這樣，我們有了地點。

What else do we need?

我們還需要什麼？

What else do tradies love?

工人還愛什麼？

Food.

食物。

I know, we all do, but tradies love food.

我知道，我們都是，但工人愛食物。

Tradies especially, and I'm a tradie myself,

工人特別愛食物，我自己也是工人，

we love egg and bacon rolls.

我們愛吃蛋和培根捲。

So we thought we'd supply the tradies with egg and bacon rolls,

所以，我們覺得我們應該 供應蛋和培根捲給工人，

and there was the slogan:

於是標語就出來了：

save your bacon.

救救你的培根。

It's a bit corny, but it sort of works.

是有點老套，但還算有效果。

And we also came up with a logo.

我們還想出了一個標誌。

"Hope Assistance Local Tradies."

「希望援助當地工人（HALT）」。

Keep in mind, "HALT," our charity, had no money to begin,

別忘了，我們的慈善機構 「HALT」一開始並沒有錢，

nothing, not a single cent.

完全沒有，一毛也沒有。

We had conversations.

我們有的是對談。

This is a community issue. It starts in community.

這是個社區議題，從社區開始。

So we went around to the butcher, we went around to the baker,

所以我們開始去找屠夫， 去找麵包師傅，

there was no candlestick maker,

沒有做蠟燭的人，

there was an egg place and there was some chocolate,

有擺蛋的地方，也有一些巧克力，

there was coffee, there was fruit,

有咖啡、有水果，

但我們四處遊走並說：

but we went around and said,

"Hey, we're doing this awareness-raising event.

「嘿，我們要辦一個宣導活動。

Do you want to contribute? Because we haven't got any money."

你想要做點貢獻嗎？ 因為我們沒有錢。」

Of course, nearly every person we initiated the conversation with

當然，幾乎我們去交談的每個人

knew someone that had anxiety, depression or thoughts of suicide

都認識某個有焦慮、憂鬱， 或自殺念頭的人，

or had suicided.

或已自殺的人。

There was that unity,

用這種共識、

that whole of community approach.

全社區參與的方式進行募款。

So we thought, that's great, we've got some food.

我們在想，太棒了， 所以，我們準備了一些食物。

What else do we need?

我們還需要什麼？

We need the support services there.

在那裡我們也會需要支援服務。

A lot of tradies, and a lot of men in general,

很多工人，一般來說，有很多男性

don't necessarily know where to go and get help.

不見得知道要去哪裡求助。

I myself was one of them,

我自己就是其中一個，

and this is what I talk about at the HALT events,

這就是我在 HALT 活動上講的主題，

that four years ago when I founded HALT,

四年前，當我成立 HALT 時，

I didn't know I could go to the doctor about my mental health

我不知道，如果有心理健康問題 可以去找醫生，

and get a mental health plan.

並參與心理健康計畫。

I didn't know about community health.

我也沒聽過社區健康。

I certainly didn't know about Lifeline,

我當然不知道有生命線，

and I've called Lifeline three times,

後來我自己打過三次生命線，

and they've certainly potentially saved my life.

他們肯定可能救了我的命。

I had to learn all these things.

我得要學習所有這些事。

Tradies need to know them.

工人需要了解它們。

We provided bags,

我們提供很多袋子，

bags of information,

裡面裝了很多資訊，

and I had quite a few tradies say to me in the first year,

第一年，有幾個工人對我說：

"Aw, this is a load of you-know-what,"

「啊，這裡面有好多的『你知道嗎』。」

but those tradies I know still have those bags in their Ute

但我認識的那些工人仍然 把那些袋子放在他們的貨車中，

or in their shed.

或他們的庫房中。

On November 10, 2013,

2013 年 11 月 10 日，

we had our event,

我們辦了活動，

and interestingly enough, when I talk about a whole of community approach,

很有趣的是，當我談到 這個全社區參與的方式時，

that was our first event in Castlemaine at Tonks Brothers,

那是我們的第一次活動， 辦在卡索曼的 Tonks Brothers，

and there's a whole of community there.

全社區的人都到了。

There's counselors,

有諮詢師、

there's people who have gone through mental health.

有曾經克服過心理健康的人。

That first event set the scene.

第一場活動奠定了基礎。

Since then, we've had more events.

之後，我們辦了更多活動。

Interestingly enough, it's not only tradies

很有趣的是，並不只有工人

that are affected by mental health or anxiety or depression or suicide.

受到心理健康、焦慮、 憂鬱，或自殺的影響。

We started working with TAFEs.

我們開始和技職教育機構合作。

We started working in the farming industry,

我們開始在農會、

at councils, at secondary colleges.

地方議會、中等學校舉辦。

We did events for the partners of tradies,

我們為工人的伴侶辦活動，

because often the tradies would not go home to their partners

因為工人通常不會回家跟另一半說：

and say, "Guess what, we talked about mental health,

「你知道嗎，我們在談心理健康，

and we're going to do this, this and this now."

我們現在準備要做這個、 這個和這個。」

So we're doing events for the partners,

所以我們也針對伴侶來辦活動，

who themselves may need help.

她/他們本身可能也需要幫助。

TAFEs are very popular.

（在澳洲）技職教育機構到處都有。

For me, it's really crucial to get to these young, vulnerable men and women.

對我來說，能接觸到 這些年輕、弱勢的男女很重要。

We've done events for men's sheds,

我們已經在男人庫房辦了幾場活動，

so the high rate of suicide is really high for older men.

因為年長男性的自殺率真的很高。

We've done events for council depot workers and tradies.

我們也為地方議會倉庫的 勞工和工人辦活動。

Interestingly enough,

有趣的是，

nearly every single event --

幾乎每一場活動——

and we've actually done now, with very little funding,

目前為止，我們以極少的資金

150 events over four states.

在四大州辦了超過 150 場的活動。

So -- oh please, thank you.

所以——喔，真的沒什麼，謝謝你們。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

And invariably at every single HALT event at a hardware store,

不變的是，在每一場五金行 舉辦的 HALT 活動中，

I have one tradie come up to me,

都會有工人來找我，

at least one come up and tell me about his suicide attempt.

至少會有一位來找我， 並告訴我他曾嘗試過自殺。

They're not suicidal there and then, they've worked through it,

後來沒有自殺並渡過了難關，

but these men have never felt they could share their vulnerabilities.

但這些人從來沒想到 他們也可以分享他們的脆弱。

They've never felt they can talk about their suicide attempt,

他們從來不知道他們也可以談論 曾經嘗試著自殺的經驗，

but the HALT events,

但在 HALT 的活動中可以，

where there's no expectations for them to talk,

大家對你要談論什麼 並沒有既定的期望，

makes them feel comfortable to start talking.

讓他們覺得自在，願意開始談。

And it's not just they talk to me and tell me their story,

他們不只告訴我他們的故事而已，

they actually now say,

他們現在還會說：

"We feel comfortable enough to talk with other men."

「我們跟別人談這事感到自在。」

I've had men stand up and say,

我已經能讓他們站起來說：

"I've never mentioned before that I've had depression, but I have,

「我未曾提過我有憂鬱症，但我有，

and if anyone else here wants to come and speak to me,

如果這裡的任何人想要來和我談，

I'm here to talk to you."

我很樂意和你談。」

It's very empowering and cathartic to do that.

這麼做，非常激勵人心 且有淨化作用。

We need a whole-of-community approach.

我們需要一種全社區參與的方式。

We give the tradies bags of information from local and national support services.

我們已在當地和全國的支援服務單位 送出袋裝的工人資訊。

It's one of thing to tell a tradie or someone at one of these events,

告訴工人或參與者

「你該去這裡、這裡和這裡」 是一回事，

"You should go here, here and here,"

but we need the whole of community

但我們需要整個社區

to wrap around the idea of suicide prevention.

專心致志於預防自殺的想法上。

We need those services,

我們需要那些服務，

and suicide doesn't discriminate at all.

且自殺是完全沒有差別待遇的。

It's not a 9-to-5 thing.

它並非朝九晚五的東西。

We need to do events before 9am, which most of our brekkies are,

我們需要在早上九點前的 早餐時間辦活動，

and after 5 PM.

以及晚上五點之後。

That's what we need to do. It's a whole-of-community approach.

那是我們得要去做的。 這是個全社區參與的方式。

We need to get into businesses.

我們必須進入業界。

We need to get into sporting clubs, community clubs.

我們得要進入運動俱樂部， 社區俱樂部。

We need to get in there and train people

我們需要進入那些地方，

訓練大家了解心理健康。

to understand about mental health.

Here's some sobering statistics just to give you an idea.

以下這些統計數據， 能讓各位有些概念。

In 2016,

2016 年，

in Australia, 2,866 suicides,

在澳洲，有 2866 件自殺案件，

very close to twice the road toll.

大約是公路收費站的兩倍。

Globally, 800,000 a year

全球，每年全世界有 80 萬件

suicides in the world,

自殺案件，

one every 40 seconds.

每 40 秒就有一人自殺。

We need a whole-of-community approach.

我們需要一種全社區參與的方式。

We need to feel comfortable in opening up the conversations.

我們需要讓人感到自在、 願意敞開心胸的對談。

Men I know find it really difficult to open up conversations.

我認識的男人覺得要敞開心胸 來進行對談是很困難的。

They certainly do.

他們肯定如此覺得。

If you're going to open up conversations, I tell the guys,

我告訴這些傢伙， 如果你打算要開啟一段對談，

you need to find a comfortable place to open up and have a conversation,

你要找到一個舒服 且放得開的地方來做對談，

whether it's at the pub, it's going for a walk,

不論是酒吧、是去散個步，

it's after footy.

或是踢完足球後。

Find that really comfortable place to have the conversation.

找到一個舒服的地方來進行對談。

Part of the ability to have that conversation

進行對談所需要的能力之一

is to understand what to say.

就是要了解要說什麼。

We've all heard about, "Are you OK?"

我們都聽過「你還好嗎？」

And I've seen it. I've done this.

我見過。我做過。

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "Yes."

「你還好嗎？」「還好。」 「你還好嗎？」「還好。」

"Are you OK?" "Yes." "Are you OK?" "No."

「你還好嗎？」「還好。」 「你還好嗎？」「不好。」

What do I say now?

我現在要說什麼？

What do I say?

我要說什麼？

We need to equip every single person

我們得要讓每一個人都有

with the ability to come forth

能力能夠站出來，

and be able to have that conversation.

做那樣的對談。

We need to be able to listen.

我們需要能夠傾聽。

I don't know who out there is a good listener.

我不知道外頭有誰是好的傾聽者。

I'm working on my listening abilities,

我在努力改善我自己的傾聽能力，

but it's an art form to listen and not judge.

但傾聽卻不評斷，可說是一種藝術。

Don't make fun. If someone's coming to talk to you about mental illness

別開玩笑。如果有人 來找你談關於心理問題、

and anxiety and depression and thoughts of suicide,

焦慮、憂鬱，及自殺想法的話題，

we need to respect that.

我們要表現出尊重。

They want to trust us that we're going to hold that in tight

他們信任我們會保守秘密，

and not tell everyone.

不會告訴每個人。

We need to do that.

我們得要做到那一點。

So we need to have conversations. We need to listen.

所以，我們得要進行對談。 我們得要傾聽。

And we need to start reducing the stigma associated with mental health.

我們得要開始減少 和心理健康相關的污名。

Companies are now starting to have mental health days.

現在有些公司開始有 所謂的心理健康日。

What a great idea.

這點子多棒啊。

It's not just physical sick days, it's mental health days.

不只是身體生病日，是心理健康日。

Things are changing. We can add to that change.

改變在發生，我們可以協助改變。

I'm a life preserver.

我是位生命保護者。

I think we can all be life preservers.

我想，我們都能成為生命保護者。

The pain of regret

後悔所帶來的痛苦

is far greater than the pain of hard work.

遠大於辛苦的痛苦。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）