How whistle-blowers shape history | Kelly Richmond Pope

Prevodilac: Aleksandar Bošnjak Lektor: Ivana Krivokuća

How many of us have ever seen something,

Koliko nas je nekada videlo nešto

thought that we should report it, but decided not to?

i pomislilo da bi to trebalo prijaviti, ali smo odlučili suprotno?

And not that I need to see a show of hands,

Nije da treba da vidim podignute ruke,

but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before.

ali sam sigurna da se ovo desilo ranije nekome u ovoj prostoriji.

In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees,

U stvari, kad je ovo pitanje bilo postavljeno grupi zaposlenih,

46 percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something

46% njih je odgovorilo da je videlo nešto

and decided not to report it.

i da su odlučili da to ne prijave.

So if you raised your hand, or quietly raised your hand,

Dakle, ako ste podigli ruku, ili ste blago podigli ruku,

don't feel bad, you're not alone.

ne osećajte se loše, niste jedini.

This message of if you see something to say something

Ta poruka "ako vidiš nešto, kaži",

is really all around us.

je stvarno svuda oko nas.

Even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this,

Čak i kad se vozite auto-putem, vidite bilborde kao što je ovaj,

encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves.

koji nas podstiču da prijavimo zločin ne otkrivajući ko smo.

But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable

I dalje imam utisak da je mnogima od nas neprijatno

coming forward in the name of the truth.

da istupimo u ime istine.

I'm an accounting professor, and I do fraud research.

Ja sam profesorka računovodstva i istražujem prevare.

And in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information

Na časovima ohrabrujem studente da istupe sa informacijom,

if they see it.

ako je imaju.

Or in other words, encouraging my students to become whistle-blowers.

Ili drugim rečima, ohrabrujem studente da postanu uzbunjivači.

But if I'm being completely honest with myself,

Da budem skroz iskrena prema sebi,

I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students.

imam problem sa ovom porukom koju šaljem studentima.

And here's why.

A evo i zašto.

Whistle-blowers are under attack.

Uzbunjivači su pod napadom.

Headline after headline shows us this.

Naslov za naslovom nam pokazuje ovo.

Many people choose not to become whistle-blowers

Mnogi ljudi biraju da ne postanu uzbunjivači

due to the fear of retaliation.

zbog straha od osvete.

From demotions to death threats,

Od nazadovanja do pretnji smrću,

to job loss --

do gubitka posla -

perpetual job loss.

gubitka posla zauvek.

Choosing to become a whistle-blower is an uphill battle.

Izbor da postanete uzbunjivač je veoma teška borba.

Their loyalty becomes into question.

Njihova lojalnost se dovodi u pitanje.

Their motives, their trustworthiness.

Njihovi motivi, njihova pouzdanost.

So how can I, as a professor who really cares about her students

Dakle, mogu li ja, kao profesor koji stvarno brine o svojim studentima,

encourage them to become whistle-blowers,

da ih ohrabrim da postanu uzbunjivači,

when I know how the world truly feels about them?

kad znam šta svet zaista misli o njima?

So, one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle-blower lecture

Jednog dana sam se pripremala za godišnje predavanje o uzbunjivačima

with my students.

sa svojim studentima.

Radila sam na članku za „Forbs“,

And I was working on an article for "Forbes,"

sa nazivom „Vels Fargo i milenijalci uzbunjivači.

entitled "Wells Fargo and Millennial Whistle-blowing.

What Do We Tell Them?"

Šta da im kažemo?“

Dok sam radila na ovom članku i čitala o slučaju,

And as I was working on this piece and reading about the case,

I became outraged.

pobesnela sam.

And what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realized

Iznerviralo me je kad sam došla do činjenice

that the employees that tried to whistle-blow

da su zaposleni koji su pokušali uzbunjivanje

were actually fired.

zapravo bili otpušteni.

And it really made me think

To me je nateralo da razmislim

about the message that I was sharing with my students.

o poruci koju sam delila studentima.

And it made me think: What if my students had been Wells Fargo employees?

Nateralo me je da se zapitam

šta bi bilo da su moji studenti zaposleni u Vels Fargu?

On the one hand, if they whistle-blew, they would have gotten fired.

Sa jedne strane, kad bi uzbunjivali, bili bi otpušteni.

But on the other hand,

Ali sa druge strane,

if they didn't report the frauds that they knew,

ako ne bi prijavili prevare za koje su znali,

the way current regulation is written,

prema onome kako su napisani trenutni propisi,

employees are held responsible

zaposleni su odgovorni

if they knew something and didn't report it.

ako su znali nešto, a nisu prijavili.

So criminal prosecution is a real option.

Krivično gonjenje je stvarna opcija.

What's a person supposed to do with those type of odds?

Šta bi osoba trebalo da uradi sa tim mogućnostima?

I of all people know the valuable contributions

Ja od svih ljudi znam za vredan doprinos

that whistle-blowers make.

koji uzbunjivači imaju.

In fact, most frauds are discovered by them.

U stvari, većinu prevara otkriju uzbunjivači.

Forty two percent of frauds are discovered by a whistle-blower

Četrdeset dva odsto prevara su otkrili uzbunjivači,

in comparison to other methods,

u poređenju sa drugim metodama

like measurement review and external audit.

kao što su pregled merenja i spoljašnja revizija.

And when you think about some of the more classic

Kad pomislite o nekim više klasičnim

or historical fraud cases,

ili istorijskim slučajevima prevara,

it always is around a whistle-blower.

uvek tu postoji uzbunjivač.

Think Watergate -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

Setite se afere Votergejt koju je uzbunjivač otkrio.

Think Enron -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

Setite se afere Enron koju je takođe otkrio uzbunjivač.

And who can forget about Bernard Madoff, discovered by a whistle-blower?

I ko može da zaboravi na Bernarda Medofa, kog je otkrio uzbunjivač?

It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth.

Potrebna je ogromna količina hrabrosti da istupite u ime istine.

But when we think about the term whistle-blower,

Ali kad razmišljamo o terminu uzbunjivač,

we often think of some very descriptive words:

često pomišljamo na neke veoma opisne reči:

rat,

prevrtljivac,

snake,

mutljivac,

traitor,

izdajnik,

tattletale, weasel.

tužibaba, licemer.

And those are the nice words, the ones I can say from the stage.

A to su lepe reči, one koje mogu da kažem sa pozornice.

And so when I'm not in class,

Kada nisam na predavanjima,

I go around the country and I interview white-collar felons,

idem po zemlji i intervjuišem prestupnike kancelarijskih profesija,

whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.

uzbunjivače i žrtve prevara.

Because really I'm trying to understand what makes them tick

Jer u stvari pokušavam da razumem šta ih motiviše,

and to bring those experiences back into the classroom.

i da donesem ta iskustva nazad u učionicu.

But it's my interviews with whistle-blowers that really stick with me.

Međutim, intervjui sa uzbunjivačima su ti koje zaista pamtim.

And they stick with me,

Ostaju mi u glavi,

because they make me question my own courage.

jer me teraju da ispitujem sopstvenu hrabrost.

When given the opportunity, would I actually speak up?

Kad bi mi se ukazala prilika, da li bih ja zapravo progovorila?

And so, this is a couple stories that I want to share with you.

Ovo je par priča koje želim da podelim sa vama.

Ovo je Meri.

This is Mary.

Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower from the University of North Carolina

Meri Vilingem je uzbunjivačica sa Univerziteta Severne Karoline

at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.

u Čapel Hilu, akademski slučaj prevare.

And Mary was a learning specialist at the university,

Meri je bila specijalista za učenje na univerzitetu

and she worked with students, primarily student athletes.

i radila je sa studentima, naročito sa studentima sportistima.

And what she noticed, when she was working with students,

A ono što je primetila dok je radila sa studentima,

is they were turning in term papers

je da su oni predavali seminarske radove

that seemed well beyond their reading levels.

koji su se činili znatno iznad njihovog nivoa čitanja.

She started to ask a couple of questions

Počela je da postavlja par pitanja

and she found out that there was a database

i otkrila je da postoji baza podataka,

where the student athletes could retrieve papers and turn them in.

gde su studenti sportisti mogli da preuzmu radove i da ih predaju.

And then she found out that some of her colleagues

Onda je otkrila da su neke njene kolege

were funneling students into fake classes, just to keep them eligible to play.

upućivale studente na lažne časove, samo da bi ostali kvalifikovani da igraju.

Now, when Mary found this out, she was outraged.

Kada je Meri ovo otkrila, bila je besna.

And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor.

Pokušala je da ode kod svog supervizora.

But they didn't do anything.

Ali nisu ništa učinili.

And then Mary tried to go to some internal university administrators.

Onda je Meri pokušala da ode do nekih internih univerzitetskih administratora.

And they didn't do anything.

Ni oni nisu uradili ništa.

So, what happens when nobody listens?

Dakle, šta se desi kad niko ne sluša?

You blog.

Pišete blog.

So Mary decided to develop a blog.

Meri je odlučila da napravi blog.

Her blog went viral within 24 hours,

Njen blog se proširio na internetu u roku od 24 časa,

and she was contacted by a reporter.

i jedan novinar je stupio u kontakt sa njom.

Now, when she was contacted by this reporter,

Kada je novinar kontaktirao sa njom,

her identity was known.

njen identitet je bio poznat.

She was exposed.

Bila je otkrivena.

And when she was exposed, she received a demotion,

Kada je bila otkrivena, nazadovala je na poslu,

death threats, over collegiate sports.

primila je pretnje smrću, zbog fakultetskog sporta.

Mary didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud.

Meri nije uradila ništa loše. Nije učestvovala u prevari.

She really thought that she was giving voice

Stvarno je mislila da iznosi istinu

to students that were voiceless.

u ime studenata koji to nisu mogli.

But her loyalty was questioned.

Ali njena lojalnost je dovedena u pitanje.

Her trustworthiness and her motives.

Njena pouzdanost i motivi.

Now, whistle-blowing doesn't always have to end

Uzbunjivanje ne mora uvek da se završi nazadovanjem na poslu ili pretnjama smrću.

in demotions or death threats.

Actually, in 2002, this was the cover of "Time" magazine,

Zapravo, ovo je bila naslovna strana magazina „Tajm“ 2002. godine,

where we were actually honoring three brave whistle-blowers

gde smo odavali počast trima hrabrima uzbunjivačima

for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth.

zbog njihove odluke da istupe u ime istine.

And when you look at the research,

Kada pogledate istraživanje,

22 percent of whistle-blowers actually report retaliation.

22% uzbunjivača prijavi odmazdu.

So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against

Dakle, postoji velika populacija ljudi koji prijavljuju,

a koji nisu napadnuti zauzvrat,

and that gives me hope.

i to mi daje nade.

So this is Kathe.

Ovo je Keti.

Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon.

Keti Svonson je penzionisana gradska službenica iz Diksona.

And one day, Kathe was doing her job, just like she always did,

Jednog dana Keti je radila svoj posao, baš kao i uvek,

and she stumbled upon a pretty interesting case.

i naletela je na vrlo interesantan slučaj.

See, Kathe was at the end of the month,

Vidite, Keti je bila pri kraju meseca,

and she was doing her treasures report for the city,

radila je na izveštaj o gradskom budžetu,

and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell, gave her a list of accounts and said,

i po običaju, njena šefica Rita Krandvel, dala joj je listu računa i rekla:

"Kathe, call the bank and get these specific accounts."

„Keti, zovi banku i pogledaj ove konkretne račune.“

And Kathe did her job.

Keti je obavila svoj posao.

But this particular day,

Ali baš ovog dana,

Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.

Rita je bila van grada, a Keti je bila zauzeta.

She picks up the phone, she calls the bank and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."

Podiže slušalicu, zove banku i kaže: „Pošaljite mi faksom sve račune.“

And when she gets the fax, she sees that there is an account

Kad je dobila faks, zapazila je da postoji račun

that has some withdrawals and deposits in it

odakle je novac bio podizan i na koji je uplaćivan,

that she did not know about.

a za koji ona nije znala.

It was an account controlled only by Rita.

Bio je to račun koji je kontrolisala Rita.

So Kathe looked at the information, she reported it to her direct supervisor,

Tako da je Keti pogledala informaciju, prijavila je to njenom supervizoru,

which was then-mayor Burke,

koji je bio tadašnji gradonačelnik Burk,

and this led into a huge investigation, a six-month investigation.

a ovo je dovelo do ogromne, šestomesečne istrage.

Come to find out, Kathe's boss, Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.

Došlo se do saznanja da je Ketina šefica, Rita Krandvel, proneverila novac.

Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars over a 20-year period,

Rita je zatajila 53 miliona dolara u periodu od 20 godina,

and Kathe just happened to stumble upon it.

a zadesilo se da je Keti naletela na to.

Kathe is a hero.

Keti je heroina.

And actually, I had the opportunity

Zapravo, imala sam priliku

of interviewing Kathe for my documentary, "All the Queen's Horses."

da intervjuišem Keti za svoj dokumentarac, „Svi kraljičini konji“.

And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.

Keti nije tražila slavu.

In fact, she really didn't want to talk to me for a really long time,

U stvari, ona baš dugo vremena stvarno nije želela da priča sa mnom,

but through strategic stalking, she ended up doing the interview.

ali putem strateškog uhođenja, na kraju je pristala na intervju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But she was seeking fairness, not fame.

Ali tražila je pravdu, ne slavu.

And if it wasn't for Kathe,

A da nije bilo Keti,

who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered?

ko zna da li bi ova prevara ikad bila otkrivena.

So, remember that "Forbes" article I was talking about,

Sećate se Forbsovog članka o kom sam pričala,

that I was working on before my lecture?

na kom sam radila pre svog predavanja?

Well, I posted it and something really fantastic happened.

Objavila sam ga i nešto stvarno fantastično se desilo.

I started receiving emails from whistle-blowers all over the world.

Počela sam da primam imejlove od uzbunjivača iz celog sveta.

And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them,

Kako sam primala te imejlove i odgovarala na njih,

there was a common theme in the message that I received,

postojala je zajednička tema u poruci koju sam primila,

and this is what it was:

a to je bilo ovo -

they all said this, "I blew the whistle, people really hate me now.

svi su rekli: „Istupio sam sa dokazima, a sada me ljudi stvarno mrze.

I got fired, but guess what?

Otpušten sam, ali pogodite šta?

I would do it all over again if I could."

Uradio bih sve to ponovo da mogu.“

And so as I kept reading this message, all these messages,

Kako sam nastavila da čitam sve te poruke,

I wanted to think, what could I share with my students?

htela sam da smislim šta bih mogla podeliti sa studentima.

And so, I pulled it all together and this is what I learned.

Sakupila sam sve i ovo je ono što sam naučila.

It's important for us to cultivate hope.

Važno je za nas da gajimo nadu.

Whistle-blowers are hopeful.

Uzbunjivači su puni nade.

Despite popular belief,

Uprkos popularnom verovanju,

they're not all disgruntled employees that have a beef with the company.

oni nisu svi nezadovoljni zaposleni koji imaju problem sa kompanijom.

Their hopefulness really is what drives them to come forward.

Njihova nada je razlog koji ih vodi ka tome da istupe.

We also have to cultivate commitment.

Takođe moramo da gajimo posvećenost.

Whistle-blowers are committed.

Uzbunjivači su posvećeni.

And it's that passion to their organization

A strast prema njihovoj organizaciji

that makes them want to come forward.

ih tera da žele da istupe.

Whistle-blowers are humble.

Uzbunjivači su skromni.

Again, they're not seeking fame, but they are seeking fairness.

Još jednom, oni ne traže slavu, ali traže pravdu.

And we need to continue to cultivate bravery.

Moramo da nastavimo da gajimo hrabrost.

Whistle-blowers are brave.

Uzbunjivači su hrabri.

Often, they underestimated

Oni često potcenjuju

the impact whistle-blowing had on their family,

uticaj koji je uzbunjivanje imalo na njihovu porodicu,

but what they continue to comment on is how hard it is to withhold the truth.

ali nastavljaju da komentarišu koliko je teško sakriti istinu.

With that, I want to leave you with one additional name:

Sa tim u vezi, želim da vam ostavim još jedno dodatno ime -

Peter Buxtun.

Piter Bakston.

Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old employee for the US Public Health Service.

Piter Bakston je imao 27 godina i radio je u Američkoj službi za javno zdravlje.

And he was hired to interview people

Angažovali su ga da intervjuiše ljude

that had sexually transmitted diseases.

koji su imali seksualno prenosive bolesti.

And through the course of his work,

Kroz svoj posao,

he noticed a clinical study that was going on within the organization.

zapazio je kliničku studiju koja se dešavala unutar organizacije.

And it was a study that was looking at the progression of untreated syphilis.

A to je bila studija koja je posmatrala tok razvoja nelečenog sifilisa.

And so, there were 600 African American males

Bilo je 600 afroameričkih muškaraca

that were in this study.

koji su bili uključeni.

They were enticed into the study

Bili su navedeni da učestvuju

through being given free medical exams, burial insurance.

tako što su im dali besplatne preglede, pogrebna osiguranja.

And so, what happened through the course of this study,

Ono što se desilo tokom ove studije

is penicillin was discovered to help treat syphilis.

jeste da je otkriven penicilin da pomogne u lečenju sifilisa.

And what Peter noticed was,

A Piter je zapazio

the participants in this study were not given the penicillin

da učesnicima u ovoj studiji nije dat penicilin

to treat their syphilis.

da bi ih izlečili od sifilisa.

And the participants didn't know.

A učesnici to nisu znali.

So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report and talk to his internal supervisors,

Kao i Meri, Piter je pokušao da to prijavi i da priča sa internim supervizorom,

but no one listened.

ali niko nije slušao.

And so Peter thought this was completely unfair

Piter je mislio da je ovo potpuno nepravedno

and he tried to report again,

i pokušao je da ponovo prijavi,

and finally talked to a reporter -- very similar to Mary.

pa je na kraju pričao sa novinarom - veoma slično kao Meri.

And in 1972, this was the front page of the "New York Times":

Godine 1972, ovo je bila naslovna strana „Njujork Tajmsa“ -

"Syphilis Victims in US Study Went Untreated for 40 Years."

„Žrtve sifilisa u američkoj studiji bile su nelečene 40 godina“.

This is known to us today as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

Ovo nam je danas poznato kao studija sifilisa u Taskigiju.

And Peter was the whistle-blower.

A Piter je bio uzbunjivač.

What happened to the 600 men, you may wonder, the 600 original men?

Šta se desilo sa tih 600 muškaraca, pitate se, prvobitnih 600 muškaraca?

Twenty eight men died from syphilis.

Dvadeset osmoro njih je umrlo od sifilisa.

One hundred died from syphilis complications,

Sto je umrlo od komplikacija usled sifilisa,

forty wives were infected

40 supruga je bilo inficirano,

and 10 children were born with congenital syphilis.

i desetoro dece je bilo rođeno sa urođenim sifilisom.

Who's to say what these numbers would be

Ko zna koje bi to cifre bile

if it wasn't for the brave, courageous act of Peter?

da nije bilo Piterovog hrabrog, odvažnog postupka?

We're all connected to Peter, actually.

Svi smo zapravo povezani sa Piterom.

If you know anybody that's in a clinical trial,

Ako znate bilo koga ko je u kliničkoj studiji,

the reason why we have informed consent today

razlog što danas imamo formular saglasnosti

is because of Peter's courageous act.

je zbog Piterovog odvažnog dela.

So let me ask you a question.

Dopustite da vam postavim pitanje.

That original question, a variation of the original question.

To originalno pitanje, varijaciju originalnog pitanja.

How many of us have ever used the term

Koliko nas je ikada koristilo termine

snitch, rat

cinkaroš, prevrtljivac,

tattletale,

tužibaba,

snake,

mutljivac,

weasel,

licemer,

leak?

dojavljivač?

Anybody?

Bilo ko?

Before you get the urge to do that again,

Pre nego što budete imali potrebu da uradite to ponovo,

I want you to think a little bit.

želim da razmislite malo.

It might be the Mary, the Peter, the Kathes of the world.

To može biti neka Meri, Piter, Keti u svetu.

You might be the person that could shape history,

Možete biti osoba koja bi mogla oblikovati istoriju,

or they could be the person that shapes yours.

ili oni mogu biti osoba koja oblikuje vašu.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)