How whistle-blowers shape history | Kelly Richmond Pope

翻译人员: David Zhang 校对人员: Yinchun Rui

How many of us have ever seen something,

我们有多少人当遇见一些事情时，

thought that we should report it, but decided not to?

想着我们应该举报它，但最后决定不去做？

And not that I need to see a show of hands,

我不是要看到你们举手，

but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before.

但是我确定这个房间的 某些人有过这种经历。

In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees,

事实上，当问到一些公司雇员这个问题时，

46 percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something

46%的人说到他们曾经 见过一些想要去举报的事情，

and decided not to report it.

但最后决定没有去做。

So if you raised your hand, or quietly raised your hand,

所以，如果你举起了手或者是悄悄地伸出手，

don't feel bad, you're not alone.

别感觉不好，这很正常。

This message of if you see something to say something

下面这句话无处不在：

is really all around us.

“如果你看到了什么就说什么。”

Even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this,

即使行驶在高速公路上， 你也能看到这样的广告牌：

encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves.

鼓励我们匿名举报犯罪。

But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable

但是我仍然认为我们许多人 当以真理的名义挺身而出时，

coming forward in the name of the truth.

会感觉到不舒服。

I'm an accounting professor, and I do fraud research.

我是一位会计学教授，研究欺诈行为。

And in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information

在我的课上，我鼓励我的学生 如果他们看见了什么，

if they see it.

就应该大胆说出来。

Or in other words, encouraging my students to become whistle-blowers.

换句话说，就是鼓励我的学生们成为举报者。

But if I'm being completely honest with myself,

但是如果对我自己坦诚相待，

I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students.

我本人与传授给学生的思想却十分冲突。

And here's why.

下面来解释为什么。

Whistle-blowers are under attack.

举报者正在受到伤害。

Headline after headline shows us this.

一条条的头条新闻向我们展示了这一点。

Many people choose not to become whistle-blowers

很多人不愿成为举报者，

due to the fear of retaliation.

是因为怕被报复：

From demotions to death threats,

从降级和死亡威胁，

to job loss --

再到失去工作——

perpetual job loss.

是永久的失业。

Choosing to become a whistle-blower is an uphill battle.

成为举报者是一项艰苦的战斗。

Their loyalty becomes into question.

他们的忠诚受到质疑。

Their motives, their trustworthiness.

还有他们的动机，诚信都是如此。

So how can I, as a professor who really cares about her students

那么既然作为一名 十分关心自己学生的教授，

encourage them to become whistle-blowers,

在我知道这个世界真实看待他们眼光的时候，

when I know how the world truly feels about them?

我怎么还能鼓励他们去成为举报者呢？

So, one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle-blower lecture

有一天，我正在和我的学生们准备

with my students.

一年一度的举报者演讲。

当时我在阅读福布斯上面的一篇文章，

And I was working on an article for "Forbes,"

标题是：”富国银行和千禧一代的举报者，

entitled "Wells Fargo and Millennial Whistle-blowing.

What Do We Tell Them?"

我们告诉他们什么了？“

当我正在研究这篇文章，阅读这个案例时，

And as I was working on this piece and reading about the case,

I became outraged.

我变得十分愤怒。

And what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realized

让我生气的原因是因为 当我了解全文的事实后，

that the employees that tried to whistle-blow

我发现那个举报的员工

were actually fired.

竟然被开除了。

And it really made me think

这让我深刻反思

about the message that I was sharing with my students.

我向我的学生们教授的这个思想。

And it made me think: What if my students had been Wells Fargo employees?

我反思道：如果我的学生就是 那个被开除的富国银行的员工呢？

On the one hand, if they whistle-blew, they would have gotten fired.

一方面，他们如果举报了，他们就会被开除。

But on the other hand,

但同时另一方面，

if they didn't report the frauds that they knew,

如果他们没有举报他们知道的欺诈行为，

the way current regulation is written,

就在以现行的监管体制下，

employees are held responsible

职员知道情况但不进行举报的，

if they knew something and didn't report it.

将会承担相应的责任。

So criminal prosecution is a real option.

因此，刑事诉讼是真实存在的。

What's a person supposed to do with those type of odds?

当处在这样两难的境地时， 我们应该怎么做呢？

I of all people know the valuable contributions

我和所有人都清楚

举报者所做的贡献是有价值的。

that whistle-blowers make.

In fact, most frauds are discovered by them.

事实上，大多数欺诈行为都是被他们揭发的。

Forty two percent of frauds are discovered by a whistle-blower

相比其他揭露方式，

in comparison to other methods,

比如测量评估和外部审计等，

like measurement review and external audit.

有42%的欺诈行为是由举报者揭露的。

And when you think about some of the more classic

当你思考一些更加经典的

or historical fraud cases,

或者历史上的欺诈案例，

it always is around a whistle-blower.

它始终会围绕着一名举报者展开。

Think Watergate -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

想想水门事件——由举报者揭发。

Think Enron -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

想想安然丑闻——由举报者揭发。

And who can forget about Bernard Madoff, discovered by a whistle-blower?

谁又能忘记伯纳德·麦道夫的 骗局正是被举报者揭发的？

It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth.

以真相的名义站出来 需要非常大的勇气。

But when we think about the term whistle-blower,

但当我们想想“举报者”这个词时，

we often think of some very descriptive words:

我们总会想到一些非常具有描述性的词：

rat,

老鼠，

snake,

蛇，

traitor,

背叛者，

tattletale, weasel.

告密者，黄鼠狼。

And those are the nice words, the ones I can say from the stage.

这些词是我在这里能说出最好的词了。

And so when I'm not in class,

所以当我不在课堂上时，

I go around the country and I interview white-collar felons,

我走遍全国各地采访那些白领欺诈犯、

whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.

举报者和受害者。

Because really I'm trying to understand what makes them tick

因为我很想明白是什么让他们如此作为，

and to bring those experiences back into the classroom.

并把吸取到的经验带到我的课堂上。

But it's my interviews with whistle-blowers that really stick with me.

但真正吸引我的是我对举报者的采访。

And they stick with me,

他们真正的吸引了我，

because they make me question my own courage.

因为他们让我质疑我自己的勇气。

When given the opportunity, would I actually speak up?

当真的有说真话的机会时，我真的会说出来吗？

And so, this is a couple stories that I want to share with you.

接下来是我想与你们分享的一个故事。

This is Mary.

这是玛丽。

Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower from the University of North Carolina

玛丽·威廉汉姆是一名举报者，

她揭发了北卡罗来纳大学 教堂山分校的学术欺诈案。

at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.

And Mary was a learning specialist at the university,

玛丽是大学里的一位学术专员，

and she worked with students, primarily student athletes.

她主要的工作对象是学生运动员。

And what she noticed, when she was working with students,

在她与学生们工作期间，她注意到：

is they were turning in term papers

他们交的学术论文水平，

that seemed well beyond their reading levels.

貌似高于他们的阅读水平。

She started to ask a couple of questions

她开始提出一系列问题，

and she found out that there was a database

然后发现有一个数据库，

where the student athletes could retrieve papers and turn them in.

这个数据库可以让学生运动员 获取论文并将它们上交。

And then she found out that some of her colleagues

她又发现她的一些同事将 她们的学生列入不存在的班级中，

were funneling students into fake classes, just to keep them eligible to play.

只是为了让学生们们有资格参加比赛。

Now, when Mary found this out, she was outraged.

当玛丽发现了这件事情时，她愤怒了。

And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor.

所以她去向直属上司反映。

But they didn't do anything.

但他们什么都没有做。

And then Mary tried to go to some internal university administrators.

然后玛丽试着去报告给大学的管理者，

And they didn't do anything.

他们也没有做什么。

So, what happens when nobody listens?

那么当没人听取意见时怎么办呢？

You blog.

博客。

So Mary decided to develop a blog.

所以玛丽决定建一个博客。

Her blog went viral within 24 hours,

她的博客开始在24小时内传播开来，

and she was contacted by a reporter.

然后有一个记者联系了她。

Now, when she was contacted by this reporter,

当她被这位记者联系到后，

her identity was known.

她的身份就广为人知。

She was exposed.

她被曝光了。

And when she was exposed, she received a demotion,

而当她被曝光后，她被降级，

death threats, over collegiate sports.

在大学体育部工作时收到死亡威胁。

Mary didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud.

玛丽没有做错什么， 她并没有参与进这场欺诈。

She really thought that she was giving voice

她真心认为自己是在为

to students that were voiceless.

那些沉默的学生们发言。

But her loyalty was questioned.

但她的忠诚，诚信和动机

Her trustworthiness and her motives.

却遭到了质疑。

Now, whistle-blowing doesn't always have to end

如今，举报者不必总是以降职

in demotions or death threats.

或是死亡威胁作为结局。

Actually, in 2002, this was the cover of "Time" magazine,

事实上，在2002时代杂志的封面上，

where we were actually honoring three brave whistle-blowers

有3位我们引以为傲的举报者，

for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth.

她们敢于以真相的名义站出来。

And when you look at the research,

再来看看研究数据，

22 percent of whistle-blowers actually report retaliation.

22%的举报者都说受到了报复。

So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against

所以还有很大一部分人揭露真相 但却没有受到报复的，

and that gives me hope.

而这给了我希望。

So this is Kathe.

这是凯瑟。

Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon.

凯瑟·斯万森是一名迪克逊市的退休公务员。

And one day, Kathe was doing her job, just like she always did,

一天，她像往常一样做着她的工作，

and she stumbled upon a pretty interesting case.

偶然发现一个非常有趣的案例。

See, Kathe was at the end of the month,

当时正是月底，

and she was doing her treasures report for the city,

凯瑟在做城市的财务报告，

and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell, gave her a list of accounts and said,

和平常一样，她的老板 瑞塔·克鲁德威给了她一列账户说道：

"Kathe, call the bank and get these specific accounts."

“凯瑟，打电话给银行，获取这些账户。”

And Kathe did her job.

凯瑟照做了。

But this particular day,

但是这是特殊的一天。

Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.

瑞塔出差了，凯瑟正忙。

She picks up the phone, she calls the bank and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."

她拿起电话打给银行说： “用传真发我所有的账户。”

And when she gets the fax, she sees that there is an account

当她收到传真后，她发现有一个账户

that has some withdrawals and deposits in it

有着支出和存款记录，

that she did not know about.

但她不清楚那些记录。

It was an account controlled only by Rita.

那是一个瑞塔私人的账户。

So Kathe looked at the information, she reported it to her direct supervisor,

所以她看了下信息并报告给了直属上司，

which was then-mayor Burke,

当时的市长：布鲁克。

and this led into a huge investigation, a six-month investigation.

而这引出了大量的调查， 足足花了6个月时间。

Come to find out, Kathe's boss, Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.

最终发现，凯瑟的老板 瑞塔·克鲁德威当时是在挪用公款。

Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars over a 20-year period,

瑞塔在职的20年间挪用了5300万美元，

and Kathe just happened to stumble upon it.

而凯瑟偶然发现这件事情。

Kathe is a hero.

她是一个英雄。

And actually, I had the opportunity

我有幸采访到她，

of interviewing Kathe for my documentary, "All the Queen's Horses."

以制作我的一部纪录片“女王所有的马”。

And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.

凯瑟并没有追求名誉。

In fact, she really didn't want to talk to me for a really long time,

相反，她并不想和我聊很长时间，

but through strategic stalking, she ended up doing the interview.

但是通过我的战略迂回， 她还是完成了整个访谈。

(Laughter)

（笑）

But she was seeking fairness, not fame.

但她追求的是公平，而非名誉。

And if it wasn't for Kathe,

如果不是凯瑟，

who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered?

谁能知道这个骗局会不会被发现？

So, remember that "Forbes" article I was talking about,

所以，记得之前谈到的我课前准备的

that I was working on before my lecture?

那篇福布斯杂志的文章吗？

Well, I posted it and something really fantastic happened.

我把它上传了然后一些奇妙的事情发生了。

I started receiving emails from whistle-blowers all over the world.

我开始收到来自全球各地举报者的邮件。

And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them,

在我收到并回复邮件的过程中，

there was a common theme in the message that I received,

有一个主题始终存在于每一条信息，

and this is what it was:

就是：

they all said this, "I blew the whistle, people really hate me now.

他们全写到：”我捅破了骗局，人们现在都非常恨我。

I got fired, but guess what?

我被开除了，但猜怎么着？

I would do it all over again if I could."

只要有机会，我还是会去检举揭发。"

And so as I kept reading this message, all these messages,

所以当我在读所有的这些消息时，

I wanted to think, what could I share with my students?

我不禁想到，我有什么 能和我的学生们分享的吗？

And so, I pulled it all together and this is what I learned.

所以我把这些信息全部拼凑到一起， 得到了下面的结论。

It's important for us to cultivate hope.

培育希望对我们来说是很重要的。

Whistle-blowers are hopeful.

举报者是乐观有希望的。

Despite popular belief,

尽管是在流行的观点下，

they're not all disgruntled employees that have a beef with the company.

他们并非都是对公司心怀不满的员工。

Their hopefulness really is what drives them to come forward.

正是他们的乐观精神驱使他们站出来。

We also have to cultivate commitment.

我们还应该培养奉献精神。

Whistle-blowers are committed.

举报者是尽责的。

And it's that passion to their organization

正是他们对自身所在的组织充满激情，

that makes them want to come forward.

他们才会想要站出来。

Whistle-blowers are humble.

举报者都很谦虚。

Again, they're not seeking fame, but they are seeking fairness.

再次强调，他们不是在追求名誉，而是公平。

And we need to continue to cultivate bravery.

我们还要培养勇敢的精神。

Whistle-blowers are brave.

举报者们都很勇敢。

Often, they underestimated

通常，他们低估了

the impact whistle-blowing had on their family,

举报对他们家庭的影响，

but what they continue to comment on is how hard it is to withhold the truth.

但是他们一直在谈论的是隐瞒真相有多难。

With that, I want to leave you with one additional name:

谈到这里，我想讲讲另一个人：

Peter Buxtun.

彼得·巴斯通。

Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old employee for the US Public Health Service.

彼得·巴斯通27岁，是美国公共卫生服务的职员。

And he was hired to interview people

他的工作是采访患有

that had sexually transmitted diseases.

性病的病人。

And through the course of his work,

他在工作的过程中，

he noticed a clinical study that was going on within the organization.

他注意到他的工作组织 正在进行一项临床研究。

And it was a study that was looking at the progression of untreated syphilis.

这项研究主要是观察 未经治疗的梅毒病人的状况。

And so, there were 600 African American males

600名美国黑人男性

that were in this study.

参加了这项研究。

They were enticed into the study

他们加入这项研究后，

through being given free medical exams, burial insurance.

获得了免费的体检和葬礼保险。

And so, what happened through the course of this study,

这场研究帮助

is penicillin was discovered to help treat syphilis.

发现了治疗梅毒的青霉素。

And what Peter noticed was,

而彼得注意到的是，

the participants in this study were not given the penicillin

参与这项研究的人并没有得到青霉素

to treat their syphilis.

以治疗他们自身的疾病。

And the participants didn't know.

而这些参与者们并不知道。

So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report and talk to his internal supervisors,

所以和玛丽一样，彼得也试着 去报告给他的上司们，

but no one listened.

但是没有人听。

And so Peter thought this was completely unfair

所以他觉得这完全不公平，

and he tried to report again,

他又试着去报告这件事，

and finally talked to a reporter -- very similar to Mary.

最终他报告给了一名记者—— 这和玛丽是否相似。

And in 1972, this was the front page of the "New York Times":

在1972年，这就是纽约时报的首页：

"Syphilis Victims in US Study Went Untreated for 40 Years."

“在美国的一项研究中 梅毒受害者长达40年未经治疗。“

This is known to us today as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

这就是我们今天熟知的 塔斯基吉梅毒试验。

And Peter was the whistle-blower.

而彼得就是其中的举报者。

What happened to the 600 men, you may wonder, the 600 original men?

你可能会想知道那600参加实验的人发生了什么？

Twenty eight men died from syphilis.

其中28人死于梅毒。

One hundred died from syphilis complications,

100多人死于梅毒并发症，

forty wives were infected

40位他们的妻子被感染了，

and 10 children were born with congenital syphilis.

10名新生儿带有先天性梅毒。

Who's to say what these numbers would be

如果不是彼得充满勇气的行为，

if it wasn't for the brave, courageous act of Peter?

谁能说出这些数字是什么呢？

We're all connected to Peter, actually.

事实上，我们都和彼得有所关联。

If you know anybody that's in a clinical trial,

如果你知道一些加入临床研究的人，

the reason why we have informed consent today

而之所以我们如今知情

is because of Peter's courageous act.

是因为彼得勇敢的行为。

So let me ask you a question.

现在让我来问你们一个问题。

That original question, a variation of the original question.

这个问题是一些原始问题的变形。

How many of us have ever used the term

我们有多少人使用过以下术语:

snitch, rat

告发者，老鼠，

tattletale,

告密者，

snake,

蛇，

weasel,

黄鼠狼，

leak?

泄密。

Anybody?

有人吗？

Before you get the urge to do that again,

在你想要再这样做的冲动之前，

I want you to think a little bit.

我希望你能想一想。

It might be the Mary, the Peter, the Kathes of the world.

你谈论的对象可能是玛丽，

彼得，

凯瑟。

You might be the person that could shape history,

你可能就是那个改写历史的人，

or they could be the person that shapes yours.

或者他们可以成为那个改变你世界的人。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）