Rob Legato: The art of creating awe

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Tłumaczenie: Marta Krzeminska Korekta: Marcin Doszko

I worked on a film called "Apollo 13,"

Pracowałem nad filmem "Apollo 13",

and when I worked on this film, I discovered something

kiedy odkryłem,

about how our brains work, and how our brains work

jak działają nasze mózgi.

is that, when we're sort of infused with

Gdy przepełnia nas entuzjazm,

either enthusiasm or awe or fondness or whatever,

strach czy czułość,

it changes and alters our perception of things.

inaczej widzimy świat.

It changes what we see. It changes what we remember.

Inaczej też zapamiętujemy.

And as an experiment, because I dauntingly create

Miałem za zadanie

a task for myself of recreating a Saturn V launch

odtworzyć start

for this particular movie, because I put it out there,

sondy Saturn V w tym filmie.

I felt a little nervous about it, so I need to do an experiment

W ramach eksperymentu

and bring a group of people like this in a projection room

zaprosiłem grupę ludzi

and play this stock footage, and when I played this

i puściłem im to nagranie.

stock footage, I simply wanted to find out

Chciałem zbadać,

what people remembered, what was memorable about it?

co utkwi im w pamięci,

What should I actually try to replicate?

co muszę odtworzyć,

What should I try to emulate to some degree?

co naśladować?

So this is the footage that I was showing everybody.

Pokazałem to nagranie.

And what I discovered is, because of the nature

Odkryłem, że samo nagranie

of the footage and the fact that we're doing this film,

oraz fakt pracy nad filmem

there was an emotion that was built into it

budziło emocje,

and our collective memories of what this launch meant to us

wspomnienia startu,

and all these various things.

tego, co dla nas znaczył.

When I showed it, and I asked, immediately after

Gdy pytałem,

the screening was over, what they thought of it,

co widzowie zapamiętali,

what was your memorable shots, they changed them.

zmieniali przebieg filmu.

They were -- had camera moves on them.

Dodawali ruchy kamery

They had all kinds of things. Shots were combined,

i inne rzeczy.

and I was just really curious, I mean, what the hell

Intrygowało mnie to.

were you looking at just a few minutes ago

Oglądali coś przed chwilą

and how come, how'd you come up with this sort of description?

i skąd takie opisy?

And what I discovered is, what I should do is not actually

Zrozumiałem, że powinienem odtworzyć to,

replicate what they saw, is replicate what they remembered.

co pamiętali, a nie to, co widzieli.

So this is our footage of the launch, based on, basically,

To nagranie startu oparte na

taking notes, asking people what they thought, and then

rozmowach z widzami

the combination of all the different shots and all

i zestawieniu różnych ujęć.

the different things put together created their sort of

Wszystko razem przedstawia

collective consciousness of what they remembered

zbiorową pamięć o tym zdarzeniu,

it looked like, but not what it really looked like.

a nie prawdę obiektywną.

So this is what we created for "Apollo 13."

To powstało dla filmu "Apollo 13".

(Launch noises)

(Odgłosy startu)

So literally what you're seeing now is the confluence

Oglądacie połączenie wspomnień

of a bunch of different people, a bunch of different memories,

różnych osób, w tym moich,

including my own, of taking a little bit of liberty

i kreatywnego spojrzenia

with the subject matter.

na całe wydarzenie.

I basically shot everything with short lenses,

Kręciłem obiektywem szerokokątnym,

which means that you're very close to the action,

więc byłem blisko.

but framed it very similarly to the long lens shots

Wykadrowaliśmy to tak, jak w teleobiektywie,

which gives you a sense of distance, so I was basically

co daje poczucie odległości.

was setting up something that would remind you

Zmontowaliśmy coś,

of something you haven't really quite seen before. (Music)

czego nie widzieliście. (Muzyka)

And then I'm going to show you exactly what it is

Pokażę teraz,

that you were reacting to when you were reacting to it.

na co reagowaliście.

(Music)

(Muzyka)

Tom Hanks: Hello, Houston, this is Odyssey.

Tom Hanks: Halo, Houston, tu Odyssey.

It's good to see you again. (Cheers) (Music)

Dobrze znów was widzieć. (Brawa) (Muzyka)

Rob Legato: I pretend they're clapping for me.

Udaję, że to mnie oklaskują.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

So now I'm in a parking lot. Basically it's a tin can,

Tu jestem na parkingu

and I'm basically recreating the launch with

i odtwarzam start za pomocą gaśnic,

fire extinguishers, fire, I have wax that I threw

ognia i wosku.

in front of the lens to look like ice, and so basically

Jeśli uwierzyliście

if you believed any of the stuff that I just showed you,

w cokolwiek z tego filmu,

what you were reacting to, what you're emoting to,

to wasze uczucia wywołał

is something that's a total falsehood, and I found that

kompletny fałsz.

really kind of fascinating.

To niezwykłe.

And in this particular case, this is the climax of the movie,

Tu kręcimy punkt kulminacyjny filmu.

and, you know, the weight of achieving it was simply

Wystarczyło wyrzucić model

take a model, throw it out of a helicopter, and shoot it.

z helikoptera i nagrać to.

And that's simply what I did.

Tak zrobiłem.

That's me shooting, and I'm a fairly mediocre operator,

Jestem przeciętnym operatorem,

so I got that nice sense of verisimilitude, of a kind of,

stąd taki autentyzm.

you know, following the rocket all the way down,

Filmuję rakietę i staram się

and giving that little sort of edge, I was desperately

utrzymać ją w obiektywie.

trying to keep it in frame. So then I come up to the next thing.

I kolejna rzecz.

We had a NASA consultant who was actually an astronaut,

Kontaktowaliśmy się z byłym astronautą,

who was actually on some of the missions, of Apollo 15,

który był na misjach Apollo 15.

and he was there to basically double check my science.

Sprawdzał moją wiedzę naukową.

And, I guess somebody thought they needed to do that.

Ktoś uznał, że to konieczne.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

I don't know why, but they thought they did.

Nie wiem czemu.

So we were, he's a hero, he's an astronaut, and

To bohater, astronauta,

we're all sort of excited, and, you know, I gave myself

więc byliśmy podekscytowani.

the liberty of saying, you know, some of the shots I did

Nasze ujęcia

didn't really suck that bad.

nie były całkiem do kitu.

And so maybe, you know, we were feeling kind of a little

Były nawet niezłe.

good about it, so I brought him in here, and he needed

Miał sprawdzić,

to really check and see what we were doing,

jak sobie radzimy

and basically give us our A plus report card,

i dać nam szóstkę z plusem.

and so I showed him some shots we were working on,

Pokazałem mu kilka ujęć

and waiting for the reaction that you hope for,

oczekując dobrej reakcji.

which is what I got. (Music) (Launch noises)

I dostałem ją. (Muzyka) (Odgłosy startu)

So I showed him these two shots,

Pokazałem mu te dwa ujęcia,

and then he basically told me what he thought.

żeby je ocenił.

("That's wrong") (Laughter)

("Źle") (Śmiech)

Okay. (Laughter)

(Śmiech)

It's what you dream about.

O tym marzyłem.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

So what I got from him is, he turned to me and said,

Oto co usłyszałem:

"You would never, ever design a rocket like that.

"Nie buduje się takich rakiet.

You would never have a rocket go up

Rakieta nigdy nie startuje,

while the gantry arms are going out. Can you imagine

jeśli wokół są wsporniki.

the tragedy that could possibly happen with that?

Wiesz, co mogłoby się stać?

You would never, ever design a rocket like that."

Nikt by tego tak nie zaprojektował".

And he was looking at me. It's like, Yeah, I don't know

Starałem się odtworzyć

if you noticed, but I'm the guy out in the parking lot

jedną z ważniejszych chwil

recreating one of America's finest moments with

w historii Ameryki

fire extinguishers.

za pomocą gaśnic na parkingu.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

And I'm not going to argue with you. You're an astronaut,

Nie będę się kłócić. On jest bohaterem,

a hero, and I'm from New Jersey, so --

a ja jestem z prowincji.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

I'm just going to show you some footage.

Pokażę wam parę nagrań

I'm just going to show you some footage, and tell me what you think.

do oceny. W końcu dostałem

And then I did kind of get the reaction I was hoping for.

reakcję, na jaką liczyłem.

So I showed him this, and this is actual footage

To autentyczne nagranie.

that he was on. This is Apollo 15. This was his mission.

Misja Apollo 15, w której brał udział.

So I showed him this, and the reaction I got was interesting.

Zareagował dość ciekawie.

("That's wrong too.") (Laughter)

("To też źle".) (Śmiech)

So, and what happened was, I mean, what I sort of intuned

Zrozumiałem wtedy,

in that is that he remembered it differently.

że on to inaczej pamięta.

He remembered that was a perfectly safe sort of gantry

Zapamiętał zabezpieczone wsporniki

system, perfectly safe rocket launch, because he's sitting

i bezpieczny start,

in a rocket that has, like, a hundred thousand pounds

bo tę ogromną rakietę

of thrust, built by the lowest bidder.

zbudowano najtańszym kosztem.

He was hoping it was going to work out okay.

Liczył, że się uda.

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Śmiech) (Brawa)

So he twisted his memory around.

Zniekształcił sobie wspomnienia.

Now, Ron Howard ran into Buzz Aldrin, who was not

Ron Howard spotkał Buzza Aldrina,

on the movie, so he had no idea that we were faking

który nie wiedział,

any of this footage, and he just responded

że imitujemy te nagrania

as he would respond, and I'll run this.

i tak zareagował.

Ron Howard: Buzz Aldrin came up to me

Ron Howard: Buzz Aldrin spytał mnie:

and said, "Hey, that launch footage, I saw some shots

"W tym filmie były ujęcia,

I'd never seen before. Did you guys, what vault did you find

których wcześniej nie widziałem.

that stuff in?" And I said, "Well, no vault, Buzz,

Skąd to wzięliście?"

we generated all that from scratch."

Ja na to: "Sami nagraliśmy".

And he said, "Huh, that's pretty good. Can we use it?"

A on: "Niezłe. Możemy to wykorzystać?"

(Explosion) ("Sure") (Laughter)

(Wybuch) ("Pewnie") (Śmiech)

RL: I think he's a great American.

To wielki Amerykanin.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

So, "Titanic" was, if you don't know the story,

"Titanic", jeśli nie znacie fabuły,

doesn't end well.

nie kończy się dobrze.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

Jim Cameron actually photographed the real Titanic.

Jim Cameron zrobił zdjęcia

So he basically set up, or basically shattered

prawdziwego Titanica,

the suspension of disbelief, because what he photographed

żeby pozbyć się wątpliwości.

was the real thing, a Mir sub going down, or actually

Dwa batyskafy zeszły w głębiny

two Mir subs going down to the real wreck,

i sfilmowały wrak.

and he created this very haunting footage.

Przejmujący materiał.

It's really beautiful, and it conjures up all these

Jest piękny, budzi emocje,

various different emotions, but he couldn't photograph

ale nie sfilmował wszystkiego.

everything, and to tell the story,

Żeby o tym opowiedzieć,

I had to fill in the gaps, which is now rather daunting,

musiałem wypełnić luki,

because now I have to recreate back to back

odtworzyć po kolei

what really happened and I had, I'm the only one

wszystkie zdarzenia.

who could really blow it at that point.

Mogłem nie dać rady.

So this is the footage he photographed,

Materiał, który nagrał

and it was pretty moving and pretty awe-inspiring.

był niesamowity i wzruszający.

So I'm going to just let it run, so you kind of absorb

Niech gra w tle,

this sort of thing, and I'll describe my sort of reactions

żebyście się wczuli,

when I was looking at it for the very first time.

a ja opiszę swoje wrażenia.

I got the feeling that my brain wanted to basically

Chciałem zobaczyć,

see it come back to life.

jak statek wraca do życia,

I automatically wanted to see this ship,

jest w całej okazałości,

this magnificent ship, basically in all its glory,

ale też widzieć

and conversely, I wanted to see it not in all its glory,

go w stanie obecnym,

basically go back to what it looks like.

jako wrak.

So I conjured up an effect that I'm later going to show you

Później pokażę ten efekt.

what I tried to do, which is kind of the heart of the movie,

Jest on dla mnie esencją filmu,

for me, and so that's why I wanted to do the movie,

i powodem, dla którego

that's why I wanted to create the sort of things I created.

chciałem nad nim pracować.

And I'll show you, you know, another thing that I found

Ciekawiło mnie też,

interesting is what we really were emoting to

co tak naprawdę

when you take a look at it.

budziło emocje widza.

So here's the behind the scenes, a couple of little shots here.

To zdjęcia z planu.

So, when you saw my footage,

Tak naprawdę widzicie

you were seeing this: basically, a bunch of guys

kilka osób przechylających łódkę,

flipping a ship upside down, and the little Mir subs

a batyskafy są wielkości

are actually about the size of small footballs,

a batyskafy są wielkości

and shot in smoke.

małej piłki.

Jim went three miles went down, and I went about

Jim zszedł 3 mile wgłąb.

three miles away from the studio

A ja odszedłem 3 mile od studia

and photographed this in a garage.

i sfilmowałem to w garażu.

And so, but what you're emoting to, or what you're looking

Mój materiał wywołuje

at, had the same feeling, the same haunting quality,

takie same emocje,

that Jim's footage had, so I found it so fascinating

jak nagranie Jima.

that our brains sort of, once you believe something's real,

To niesamowite, że gdy w coś uwierzymy,

you transfer everything that you feel about it,

przenosimy na to odczucia,

this quality you have, and it's totally artificial.

mimo, że obraz jest sztuczny.

It's totally make-believe, yet it's not to you,

To gra pozorów, ale nie dla widza.

and I found that that was a very interesting thing

Wykorzystałem to odkrycie

to explore and use, and it caused me to create the next

przy kolejnym efekcie,

effect that I'll show you, which is

który pokażę.

this sort of magic transition, and all I was really attempting

To magiczna przemiana.

to do is basically have the audience cue the effect,

Chciałem, żeby było płynne,

so it became a seamless experience for them,

żeby widz myślał,

that I wasn't showing you my sort of interpretation,

że to nie moja wersja,

I was showing you what you wanted to see.

ale jego własne wyobrażenie.

And the very next shot, right after this --

Kolejne ujęcie.

So you can see what I was doing.

Dwa batyskafy w jednym ujęciu

So basically, if there's two subs in the same shot,

Dwa batyskafy w jednym ujęciu

I shot it, because where's the camera coming from?

W nich ukryte są kamery.

And when Jim shot it, it was only one sub,

Jim kręcił z jednego.

because he was photographing from the other,

Nie wiem, czyj to fragment.

and I don't remember if I did this or Jim did this.

Niech będzie, że Jima,

I'll give it to Jim, because he could use the pat on the back.

poprawi mu humor.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

Okay. So now the Titanic transition.

A teraz przemiana statku,

So this is what I was referring to where I wanted to basically

przejście z jednego stanu w drugi,

magically transplant from one state of the Titanic

jak wcześniej mówiłem.

to the other. So I'll just play the shot once. (Music)

Puszczę wam to. (Muzyka)

(Music)

(Muzyka)

And what I was hoping for is that it just melts in front of you.

Chciałem, żeby to się rozpłynęło.

Gloria Stuart: That was the last time Titanic ever saw daylight.

Gloria Stuart: Wtedy Titanic po raz ostatni widział światło dzienne.

RL: So, what I did is basically I had another

RL: Potem w innym studiu

screening room experience where I was basically tracking

śledziłem ruchy kamery,

where I was looking, or where we were looking,

to, na co patrzy widz,

and of course you're looking at the two people on the bow

czyli postaci na dziobie.

of the ship, and then at some point,

Nagle zaciera się granica

I'm changing the periphery of the shot,

i statek staje się

I'm changing, it's becoming the rusted wreck,

zardzewiałym wrakiem.

and then I would run it every day, and then I would find

Oglądałem to codziennie,

exactly the moment that I stopped looking at them

aż znalazłem moment

and start noticing the rest of it, and the moment

kiedy zaczyna się przemiana

my eye shifted, we just marked it to the frame.

i zaznaczyłem tę klatkę.

The moment my eye shifted, I immediately started

Gdy się to ogląda,

to change them, so now somehow you missed

trudno wychwycić

where it started and where it stopped.

tę chwilę.

And so I'll just show it one more time.

Pokażę jeszcze raz.

(Music) And it's literally done by using what our brains

(Muzyka) Wykorzystałem naturę

naturally do for us, which is, as soon as you shift

ludzkiego mózgu. Gdy przestajemy uważać,

your attention, something changes, and then I left

coś zaczyna się zmieniać.

the little scarf going, because it really wanted to be

Zostawiłem szal,

a ghostly shot, really wanted to feel like they were still

żeby wyglądali jak duchy,

on the wreck, essentially. That's where they were buried forever.

pochowani na zawsze na wraku.

Or something like that. I just made that up.

Nieważne. Zmyśliłem to.

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

It was, incidentally, the last time I ever saw daylight.

Sam dawno nie widziałem światła dziennego.

It was a long film to work on. (Laughter)

Długo pracowaliśmy. (Śmiech)

Now, "Hugo" was another interesting movie, because

Kolejny film, "Hugo",

the movie itself is about film illusions.

jest o iluzjach filmowych,

It's about how our brain is tricked into seeing a persistence

które zwodzą

of vision that creates a motion picture,

nasz mózg.

and one of the things I had to do is, we —

Sasha Baron Cohen,

Sasha Baron Cohen is a very clever, very smart guy,

bardzo inteligentny aktor,

comedian, wanted to basically do an homage to the kind of

chciał grać gagi

the Buster Keaton sort of slapstick things, and he wanted

w stylu Bustera Keatona

his leg brace to get caught on a moving train.

i zaklinować protezę w pociągu.

Very dangerous, very impossible to do, and particularly

To niebezpieczne i niewykonalne,

on our stage, because there literally is no way to actually

bo nasz plan był za mały,

move this train, because it fits so snugly into our set.

żeby ruszyć pociąg.

So let me show you the scene, and then I basically

Pokażę to ujęcie.

used the trick that was identified by Sergei Eisenstein,

Użyłem sztuczki Siergieja Eisensteina.

which is, if you have a camera that's moving with a moving

Gdy kamera porusza się razem z obiektem,

object, what is not moving appears to be moving,

wydaje się, że obiekt stoi,

and what is moving appears to be stopped,

a porusza się otoczenie.

so what you're actually seeing now is the train is not

Tu pociąg stoi w miejscu,

moving at all, and what is actually moving is the floor.

a porusza się podłoga.

So this is the shot. That's a little video of

To zdjęcia z planu.

what you're looking at there, which is our little test,

Ten mały ekran to test.

so that's actually what you're seeing, and I thought it was

Ten mały ekran to test.

sort of an interesting thing, because it was, part

To tak naprawdę widzieliście.

of the homage of the movie itself is coming up with this

Ta sztuczka wpisuje się

sort of genius trick which I can't take credit for.

w temat filmu.

I'd love to but I can't, because it was invented

Niestety nie jest moją zasługą,

like in 1910 or something like that, is I told Marty,

bo wymyślono ją w 1910 roku.

and it's kind of one of those mind things that it's

Powiedziałem Marty'emu:

really hard to really get until you actually see it work,

„Nie zrozumiesz, póki nie zobaczysz”.

and I said, you know, what I was going to do, and he said,

Odpowiedział:

"So, let me see if I can get this straight. The thing with the wheels?

"Niech spojrzę.

That doesn't move."

To z kołami się nie rusza?"

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Śmiech) (Brawa)

"And the thing without the wheels, that moves."

"A to bez kół się rusza?"

Precisely. (Laughter)

Dokładnie. (Śmiech)

Brings me to the next, and final --

Dokładnie. (Śmiech)

Marty's not going to see this, is he? (Laughter)

Przecież Marty tego nie zobaczy. (Śmiech)

This isn't viewed outside of -- (Laughter)

To nie wyjdzie poza tą salę?

The next illustration is something that, there's like

Kolejny materiał to teoria jednego ujęcia;

all one shot theory. It's a very elegant way of telling a story,

eleganckie opowiadanie historii,

especially if you're following somebody on a journey,

zwłaszcza jeśli śledzisz podróż,

and that journey basically tells something about

która mówi coś

their personality in a very concise way,

o osobowości bohatera.

and what we wanted to do based on the shot in "Goodfellas,"

Użyliśmy jednego z najlepszych

which is one of the great shots ever,

ujęć w historii kina,

a Martin Scorsese film, of basically following Henry Hill

z "Chłopców z ferajny" Martina Scorsese.

through what it feels like to be a gangster walk

To spacer Henry'ego Hilla

going through the Copacabana and being treated in a special way.

przez Copacabanę.

He was the master of his universe, and we wanted Hugo

Był panem swojego świata,

to feel the same way, so we created this shot.

podobnie jak Hugo.

(Music)

(Muzyka)

That's Hugo. (Music)

To Hugo. (Muzyka)

And we felt that if we could basically move the camera

Kamera podąża za nim

with him, we would feel what it feels like to be this boy

i pozwala widzowi

who is basically the master of his universe,

poczuć sie jak chłopiec,

and his universe is, you know, behind the scenes

jak pan świata

in the bowels of this particular train station

ukrytego w głębi stacji.

that only he can actually navigate through

Tylko tam Hugo się odnajduje.

and do it this way, and we had to make it feel that

Miało to wyglądać autentycznie

this is his normal, everyday sort of life,

i scena z jednym ujęciem

so the idea of doing it as one shot was very important,

była bardzo ważna.

and of course, in shooting in 3D, which is basically

W 3D kamera wisi na kiju,

it's a huge camera that's hanging off of a giant stick,

jest niestatyczna,

so to recreate a steadycam shot was the task,

więc musieliśmy się namęczyć,

and make it feel kind of like what the reaction you got

żeby wyszło

when you saw the "Goodfellas" shot.

jak w "Chłopcach z ferajny".

So what you're now going to see is how we actually did it.

Pokażę, jak to zrobiliśmy.

It's actually five separate sets shot at five different times

Było pięć planów

with two different boys.

i dwóch aktorów.

The one on the left is where the shot ends,

Po lewej ujęcie się kończy,

and the shot on the right is where it takes over,

a po prawej zaczyna.

and now we switch boys, so it went from Asa Butterfield,

Tu Asa Butterfielda, gwiazdę filmu,

who's the star of the show, to his stand-in. (Music)

zmienia dubler. (Muzyka)

I wouldn't say his stunt double. There's a crazy rig

Zbudowaliśmy

that we built for this. (Music)

fajną zjeżdżalnię. (Muzyka)

And so this is, and now this is set number three

To plan nr 3

we're into, and then we're going to go into, basically

i ostatnie ujęcie

the very last moment of the shot is actually

nagrane kamerą statyczną.

the steadycam shot. Everything else was shot on cranes

Całą reszte kręciliśmy

and various things like that, and it literally was done

za pomocą żurawi.

over five different sets, two different boys, different times,

5 planów, 2 chłopców, w różnym czasie.

and it all had to feel like it was all one shot, and what was

A wydaje się, że to jedno ujęcie.

sort of great for me was it was probably

Zebrałem za nie najlepsze recenzje

the best-reviewed shot I've ever worked on,

w mojej karierze.

and, you know, I was kind of proud of it when I was done,

Byłem z niego dumny.

which is, you should never really be proud of stuff, I guess.

Może nie powinienem.

So I was kind of proud of it, and I went to a friend of mine,

Pochwaliłem się koledze:

and said, "You know, this is, you know, kind of

"To najlepiej oceniane ujęcie,

the best-reviewed shot I've ever worked on.

nad jakim pracowałem.

What do you think was the reason?"

Jak myślisz, dlaczego?"

And he said, "Because no one knows

A on: "Bo nikt nie wie,

you had anything to do with it."

że masz z nim coś wspólnego".

(Laughter)

(Śmiech)

So, all I can say is, thank you,

Na koniec prezentacji

and that's my presentation for you. (Applause)

mogę tylko powiedzieć: dziękuję. (Brawa)

(Applause)

(Brawa)