Frank Gehry: Nice building. Then what?

Prevoditelj: Mladen Barešić Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

Frank Gehry: I listened to this scientist this morning.

Frank Gehry: Slušao sam jutros jednog znanstvenika.

Dr. Mullis was talking about his experiments,

Dr. Mullis je govorio o svojim eksperimentima

and I realized that I almost became a scientist.

i shvatio sam da sam gotovo postao znanstvenik.

When I was 14 my parents bought me a chemistry set

Kad mi je bilo 14, roditelji su mi kupili pribor za kemiju.

and I decided to make water.

I ja sam odlučio napraviti vodu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So, I made a hydrogen generator and I made an oxygen generator,

Izradio sam generator vodika i generator kisika.

and I had the two pipes leading into a beaker

Dvije su cijevi vodile u epruvetu,

and I threw a match in.

a ja sam u nju ubacio šibicu.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And the glass -- luckily I turned around --

I čaša --.srećom, okrenuo sam se --

I had it all in my back

Leđa su mi bila puna,

and I was about 15 feet away.

a bio sam udaljen oko pet metara.

The wall was covered with ...

Zid je bio prekriven...

I had an explosion.

Eksplodiralo je.

Richard Saul Wurman: Really?

Richard Saul Wurman: Zbilja?

FG: People on the street came and knocked on the door

FG: Ljudi su izvana došli i lupali na vrata

to see if I was okay.

ne bi li vidjeli jesam li dobro.

RSW: ... huh. (Laughter)

RSW: ... ha. (Smijeh)

I'd like to start

Volio bih ovaj razgovor

this session again.

započeti ponovno.

The gentleman to my left is the very famous, perhaps overly famous,

Gospodin s moje lijeve strane vrlo je slavan, možda suviše slavan,

Frank Gehry.

Frank Gehry.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

And Frank, you've come to a place in your life, which is astonishing.

I Frank, došao si do točke u životu, koja je zadivljujuća.

I mean it is astonishing for an artist, for an architect,

Mislim, zadivljujuće je za umjetnika, za arhitekta,

to become actually an icon and a legend in their own time.

postati istinska ikona i legenda još za života.

I mean you have become, whether you can giggle at it

Hoću reći, postao si, smijao se ti tome ili ne,

because it's a funny ... you know, it's a strange thought,

jer je smiješno... znaš, neobična je to misao...

but your building is an icon --

Ali, tvoja je zgrada ikona...

you can draw a little picture of that building, it can be used in ads --

Možete nacrtati sličicu te zgrade, koristiti je u oglasima --

and you've had not rock star status, but celebrity status

Imao si i status ne rock-zvijezde, nego celebrityja

in doing what you wanted to do for most of your life.

u onome što si čitavog života želio raditi.

And I know the road was extremely difficult.

A znam da je put do toga bio izrazito težak.

And it didn't seem, at least, that your sell outs,

Nije se činilo da su tvoji ustupci,

whatever they were, were very big.

kakvi god bili, bili odviše veliki.

You kept moving ahead in a life where you're dependent

Nastavio si svojim putem ka životu u kojemu ovisiš

on working for somebody.

o radu za nekoga drugoga.

But that's an interesting thing for a creative person.

No, to je vrlo zanimljivo za jednu kreativnu osobu.

A lot of us work for people;

Puno nas radi za druge ljude;

we're in the hands of other people.

u rukama smo drugih ljudi.

And that's one of the great dilemmas -- we're in a creativity session --

To je jedna od velikih dvojbi -- a sad govorimo o kreativnosti --

it's one of the great dilemmas in creativity:

to je jedna od velikih dvojbi glede kreativnosti:

how to do work that's big enough and not sell out.

Kako raditi dovoljno značajne stvari i pritom se ne "prodati"?

And you've achieved that

Ti si u tome uspio

and that makes your win doubly big, triply big.

i to tvoj uspjeh čini dvostruko, trostruko većim.

It's not quite a question but you can comment on it.

Ovo nije baš pitanje, ali možeš prokomentirati.

It's a big issue.

Velik je to problem.

FG: Well, I've always just ...

FG: Pa, uvijek sam...

I've never really gone out looking for work.

Nisam nikad, zapravo, tražio posao.

I always waited for it to sort of hit me on the head.

Uvijek sam čekao da me, na neki način, strefi u glavu.

And when I started out,

I kad sam počinjao,

I thought that architecture was a service business

mislio sam da je arhitektura uslužna industrija,

and that you had to please the clients and stuff.

i da trebamo udovoljiti klijentu, i slično.

And I realized when I'd come into the meetings

Shvatio sam kad bih dolazio na sastanke

with these corrugated metal and chain link stuff,

s tim valovitim limovima i žičanim mrežama,

and people would just look at me

i ljudi bi me samo gledali

like I'd just landed from Mars.

kao da sam sletio s Marsa.

But I couldn't do anything else.

Ja, jednostavno, nisam mogao raditi išta drugo.

That was my response to the people in the time.

U to doba, to je bio moj odgovor ljudima.

And actually, it was responding to clients that I had

Ustvari, bilo je to odgovaranje onim mojim klijentima

who didn't have very much money, so they couldn't afford very much.

koji nisu imali osobito mnogo novca, pa si i nisu previše mogli priuštiti.

I think it was circumstantial.

Mislim da je ovisilo o okolnostima.

Until I got to my house, where the client was my wife.

Sve dok se nije radilo o mojoj kući, pri čemu je klijentica bila moja supruga.

We bought this tiny little bungalow in Santa Monica

Kupili smo tu sićušnu prizemnicu za odmor u Santa Monici,

and for like 50 grand I built a house around it.

i za nekih 50 tisuća izgradio sam kuću oko nje.

And a few people got excited about it.

I nekoliko se ljudi uzbudilo zbog nje.

I was visiting with an artist, Michael Heizer,

S umjetnikom Michaelom Heizerom bio sam u obilasku

out in the desert near Las Vegas somewhere.

negdje u pustinji, blizu Las Vegasa.

He's building this huge concrete place.

Gradio je neku veliku betonsku kuću.

And it was late in the evening. We'd had a lot to drink.

Bilo je kasno uvečer. Dosta smo i popili.

We were standing out in the desert all alone and,

Stajali smo vani, u pustinji, posve sami,

thinking about my house, he said,

i, razmišljajući o svojoj kući, rekao sam:

"Did it ever occur to you if you built stuff more permanent,

"Jesi li ikad pomislio da budeš li gradio trajnije objekte,

somewhere in 2000 years somebody's going to like it?"

nekome će se za nekih 2000 godina to i svidjeti."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So, I thought, "Yeah, that's probably a good idea."

Pomislio sam: "A-ha, to je vjerojatno dobra ideja."

Luckily I started to get some clients that had a little more money,

Nasreću, počeo sam pribavljati klijente s malo više novca,

so the stuff was a little more permanent.

pa su i objekti bili malo trajniji.

But I just found out the world ain't going to last that long,

No, upravo sam shvatio da svijet neće trajati toliko dugo,

this guy was telling us the other day.

kao što nam je onaj dečko govorio neki dan.

So where do we go now?

Dakle, kamo sada?

Back to -- everything's so temporary.

Natrag prema -- sve je tako prolazno.

I don't see it the way you characterized it.

Ne vidim to baš tako kako si ti opisao.

For me, every day is a new thing.

Za mene je svaki dan novina.

I approach each project with a new insecurity,

Svakom projektu prilazim iznova nesiguran,

almost like the first project I ever did,

gotovo kao prvom svom projektu.

and I get the sweats,

I znojim se,

I go in and start working, I'm not sure where I'm going --

uhvatim se s tim ukoštac i započnem raditi --

if I knew where I was going, I wouldn't do it.

kad bih znao kamo idem, ne bih to radio.

When I can predict or plan it, I don't do it.

Kad mogu predvidjeti ili isplanirati, ja to ne radim.

I discard it.

Odbacujem takav projekt.

So I approach it with the same trepidation.

Dakle, pristupam mu s uvijek istom drhtavicom.

Obviously, over time I have a lot more confidence

Očito, tijekom vremena stekao sam puno više pouzdanja

that it's going to be OK.

da će sve biti u redu.

I do run a kind of a business --

Vodim svojevrsni posao --

I've got 120 people

Imam 120 ljudi

and you've got to pay them,

koje moram plaćati,

so there's a lot of responsibility involved --

što znači da tu ima poprilično odgovornosti --

but the actual work on the project is with,

ali, stvaran rad na projektu odvija se u,

I think, a healthy insecurity.

mislim, zdravoj neizvjesnosti.

And like the playwright said the other day -- I could relate to him:

I kao što je neki dan dramski pisac rekao -- Mogu ga razumjeti:

you're not sure.

Niste sigurni.

When Bilbao was finished and I looked at it,

Nakon što je muzej u Bilbau bio završen, i kad sam ga pogledao,

I saw all the mistakes, I saw ...

vidio sam sve pogreške, vidio sam...

They weren't mistakes;

To nisu bile pogreške;

I saw everything that I would have changed

vidio sam što sam sve poželio promijeniti

and I was embarrassed by it.

i bilo mi je neugodno zbog toga.

I felt an embarrassment -- "How could I have done that?

Nisam mogao vjerovati -- "Kako sam to mogao učiniti?

How could I have made shapes like that or done stuff like that?"

Kako sam mogao napraviti takve oblike ili učiniti takve stvari?"

It's taken several years to now look at it detached and say --

Trebalo mi je nekoliko godina da ga nepristrano pogledam i kažem --

as you walk around the corner and a piece of it works with the road

dok ga zaobilaziš oko ugla i jedan je dio u skladu s cestom

and the street, and it appears to have a relationship --

i s ulicom, i čini se da je u odnosu --

that I started to like it.

koji mi se počeo sviđati.

RSW: What's the status of the New York project?

RSW: Kakav je status njujorškog projekta?

FG: I don't really know.

FG: Doista ne znam.

Tom Krens came to me with Bilbao and explained it all to me,

Tom Krens mi je objasnio cijeli projekt u Bilbau,

and I thought he was nuts.

i pomislio sam da je lud.

I didn't think he knew what he was doing,

Nisam mislio da zna što radi,

and he pulled it off.

ali uspio ga je provesti u djelo.

So, I think he's Icarus and Phoenix all in one guy.

Zato, mislim da je on i Ikar i Feniks, u jednoj osobi.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

He gets up there and then he ... comes back up.

On se diže i onda se... ponovno podiže.

They're still talking about it.

Još se uvijek o tome priča.

September 11 generated some interest

11. rujna je potaknuo izvjesno zanimanje

in moving it over to Ground Zero,

za njegovo premještanje na Nultu Točku,

and I'm totally against that.

ali ja sam izrazito protiv toga.

I just feel uncomfortable talking about or building anything on Ground Zero

Jednostavno, nelagodno mi je govoriti o tome ili išta graditi na Nultoj Točki;

I think for a long time.

zadugo, mislim.

RSW: The picture on the screen,

RSW: Fotografija na ekranu,

is that Disney?

je li to Disney?

FG: Yeah.

FG: Je.

RSW: How much further along is it than that,

RSW: Koliko još preostaje izgradnje

and when will that be finished?

i kad će ovo biti dovršeno?

FG: That will be finished in 2003 -- September, October --

FG: Bit će dovršeno 2003 -- u rujnu, listopad --

and I'm hoping Kyu, and Herbie, and Yo-Yo and all those guys

Nadam se da će Kyu, Herbie, Yo-Yo i svi ti momci

come play with us at that place.

doći igrati se s nama na tom mjestu.

Luckily, today most of the people I'm working with are people I really like.

Nasreću, većinu ljudi s kojima danas radim ja doista i volim.

Richard Koshalek is probably one of the main reasons

Richard Koshalek je vjerojatno jedan od najzaslužnijih

that Disney Hall came to me.

što mi je pristupio Disney Hall.

He's been a cheerleader for quite a long time.

Navijao je poprilično dugo.

There aren't many people around that are really involved

Nema mnogo ljudi koji su stvarno vezani

with architecture as clients.

uz arhitekturu kao klijenti.

If you think about the world,

Razmislite li o svijetu,

and even just in this audience,

pa čak i samo u ovoj publici,

most of us are involved with buildings.

većina je nas vezana uza zgrade.

Nothing that you would call architecture, right?

Ništa što biste nazvali arhitekturom, zar ne?

And so to find one, a guy like that,

Zato da biste našli jednog, momka poput njega,

you hang on to him.

držat ćete ga se.

He's become the head of Art Center,

Postao je prvi čovjek Umjetničkog centra;

and there's a building by Craig Ellwood there.

ondje je zgrada Craiga Elwooda.

I knew Craig and respected him.

Poznavao sam Craiga i poštivao ga.

They want to add to it

Željeli su joj nešto pridodati,

and it's hard to add to a building like that --

a takvoj je građevini teško išta dodati --

it's a beautiful, minimalist, black steel building --

To je prelijepa, minimalistička zgrada, od crnoga čelika --

and Richard wants to add a library and more student stuff

Richard želi pridodati knjižnicu i više nekih studentskih sadržaja,

and it's a lot of acreage.

a to zahtijeva dosta površine.

I convinced him to let me bring in another architect

Uvjerio sam ga da mi dopusti dovesti jednog arhitekta

from Portugal: Alvaro Siza.

iz Portugala - Alvara Sizu.

RSW: Why did you want that?

RSW: Zašto si to želio?

FG: I knew you'd ask that question.

FG: Znao sam da ćeš postaviti to pitanje.

It was intuitive.

Bilo je to intuitivno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Alvaro Siza grew up and lived in Portugal

Alvaro Siza odrastao je i živio u Portugalu,

and is probably considered the Portuguese main guy in architecture.

i vjerojatno je najvažniji portugalski arhitekt.

I visited with him a few years ago

Posjetio sam ga prije nekoliko godina

and he showed me his early work,

i on mi je pokazao svoje rane radove,

and his early work had a resemblance to my early work.

A njegovi su rani radovi nalikovali mojima.

When I came out of college,

Pošto sam završio koledž,

I started to try to do things contextually in Southern California,

započeo sam raditi kontekstualno, u južnoj Kaliforniji.

and you got into the logic of Spanish colonial tile roofs

Tako uvidite logiku španjolskih kolonijalnih krovova od opeke,

and things like that.

i sličnih stvari.

I tried to understand that language as a beginning,

Nastojao sam razumjeti taj jezik kao početak,

as a place to jump off,

kao točku za odskok,

and there was so much of it being done by spec builders

Ondje su toliko toga gradili špekulativni građevinari,

and it was trivialized so much that it wasn't ...

i toliko je toga bilo trivijalizirano da nije bilo...

I just stopped.

Jednostavno sam prestao.

I mean, Charlie Moore did a bunch of it,

Hoću reći, Charlie Moore napravio je toliko toga,

but it didn't feel good to me.

ali meni se to nije činilo dobrim.

Siza, on the other hand, continued in Portugal

Naprotiv, Siza je nastavio u Portugalu,

where the real stuff was

gdje su se zbivale prave stvari,

and evolved a modern language that relates to that historic language.

i razvio suvremen jezik koji je povezan s povijesnim jezikom.

And I always felt that he should come to Southern California

Oduvijek sam osjećao da bi on trebao doći u južnu Kaliforniju

and do a building.

i izgraditi zgradu.

I tried to get him a couple of jobs and they didn't pan out.

Nastojao sam mu pribaviti par poslova, ali nije ispalo dobro.

I like the idea of collaboration with people like that

Sviđa mi se zamisao o suradnji s takvim ljudima,

because it pushes you.

jer vas to tjera naprijed.

I've done it with Claes Oldenburg and with Richard Serra,

Radio sam s Claesom Oldenburgom i s Richardom Serrom,

who doesn't think architecture is art.

Koji ne misli da je arhitektura umjetnost.

Did you see that thing?

Jesi li vidio to?

RSW: No. What did he say?

RSW: Ne. Što je rekao?

FG: He calls architecture "plumbing."

FG: Arhitekturu naziva "instalaterstvom".

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

FG: Anyway, the Siza thing.

FG: Kako god, Siza.

It's a richer experience.

Iskustvo je bogatije.

It must be like that for Kyu doing things with musicians --

Vjerojatno je to tako i kad Kyu radi s glazbenicima --

it's similar to that I would imagine --

Pretpostavljam da je slično tome --

where you ... huh?

kad vi... ha?

Audience: Liquid architecture.

Publika: Protočna arhitektura.

FG: Liquid architecture.

FG: Protočna arhitektura.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Where you ... It's like jazz: you improvise, you work together,

Kad vi... To je poput jazza: improvizirate, radite zajedno,

you play off each other, you make something,

nadigravate se međusobno, vi stvorite nešto,

they make something.

oni stvore nešto.

And I think

I mislim

for me, it's a way of trying to understand the city

po meni, to je način da pokušate razumjeti grad

and what might happen in the city.

i što se u gradu može dogoditi.

RSW: Is it going to be near the current campus?

RSW: Hoće li biti u blizini sadašnjeg kampusa?

Or is it going to be down near ...

Ili će biti dolje, bliže...

FG: No, it's near the current campus.

FG: Ne, blizu je sadašnjeg kampusa.

Anyway, he's that kind of patron.

Svejedno, on je takav pokrovitelj.

It's not his money, of course.

Nije njegov novac, naravno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

RSW: What's his schedule on that?

RSW: Kakav mu je plan po tom pitanju?

FG: I don't know.

FG: Ne znam.

What's the schedule, Richard?

Kakav je plan, Richarde?

Richard Koshalek: [Unclear] starts from 2004.

Richard Koshalek: [Nejasno] započinje 2004.

FG: 2004.

FG: 2004.

You can come to the opening. I'll invite you.

Možeš doći na otvorenje. Pozvat ću te.

No, but the issue of city building in democracy is interesting

Ne, ali problematika izgradnje gradova u demokraciji zanimljiva je,

because it creates chaos, right?

jer njome se stvara kaos, zar ne?

Everybody doing their thing makes a very chaotic environment,

Svatko tko radi svoj posao doprinosi stvaranju kaotičnog okoliša,

and if you can figure out how to work off each other --

i ako se možete dosjetiti kako izraditi jedni druge...

if you can get a bunch of people

Ako možete okupiti skupinu ljudi

who respect each other's work and play off each other,

koji međusobno poštuju ono što drugi rade i nadigravaju se međusobno,

you might be able to create models for

mogli biste stvoriti modele

how to build sections of the city without resorting to the one architect.

gradnji gradskih četvrti a da pritom ne pribjegavate samo jednom arhitektu,

Like the Rockefeller Center model,

poput modela gradnje Rockefellerovog centra,

which is kind of from another era.

koji kao da je iz nekog drugog doba.

RSW: I found the most remarkable thing.

RSW: Otkrio sam nešto posve izvanredno.

My preconception of Bilbao was this wonderful building,

Moja predrasuda o muzeju u Bilbau bila je ta čudesna zgrada -

you go inside and there'd be extraordinary spaces.

ulaziš u nju, a ondje sav taj izvanredan prostor...

I'd seen drawings you had presented here at TED.

Vidio sam crteže koje si prezentirao ovdje, na TED-u.

The surprise of Bilbao was in its context to the city.

Iznenađujuće kod tog Bilbaa bio je taj njegov položaj prema gradu.

That was the surprise of going across the river,

Bilo je to iznenađenje prelaska rijeke,

of going on the highway around it,

odlaska na auto-cestu oko njega,

of walking down the street and finding it.

hodanja ulicom i pronalaženja muzeja.

That was the real surprise of Bilbao.

To je bilo istinski iznenađujuće kod Bilbaa.

FG: But you know, Richard,

FG: Ali, znaš, Richarde,

most architects when they present their work --

većina arhitekata, kad predstavljaju svoj rad,

most of the people we know,

većina ljudi koje poznajemo,

you get up and you talk about your work,

Ustanete i govorite o svome radu;

and it's almost like you tell everybody you're a good guy

to je gotovo kao da svima govorite kako ste dobar lik,

by saying, "Look, I'm worried about the context,

govoreći: "Gledajte, zabrinut sam za kontekst,

I'm worried about the city,

zabrinut sam za grad,

I'm worried about my client,

zabrinut sam za svog klijenta,

I worry about budget, that I'm on time."

muči me i budžet, stižem li sve napraviti..."

Blah, blah, blah and all that stuff.

Bla, bla, bla i koješta tome slično.

And it's like cleansing yourself so that you can ...

To sliči čišćenju samoga sebe kako biste...

by saying all that, it means your work is good somehow.

Izgovarajući sve to, čini se da je to što radite na neki način dobro.

And I think everybody --

I mislim da svi --

I mean that should be a matter of fact, like gravity.

To bi trebala biti činjenica, poput gravitacije.

You're not going to defy gravity.

Nećete prkositi gravitaciji.

You've got to work with the building department.

Morate raditi s odsjekom za gradnju.

If you don't meet the budgets, you're not going to get much work.

Prekoračujete li budžete, nećete sklapati puno poslova.

If it leaks --

Procuri li --

Bilbao did not leak.

Bilbao nije procurio.

I was so proud.

Silno sam bio ponosan.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

The MIT project -- they were interviewing me for MIT

Projekt MIT-a -- Intervjuirali su me za MIT

and they sent their facilities people to Bilbao.

i poslali u Bilbao svoje ljude za održavanje objekata.

I met them in Bilbao.

Sreo sam ih u Bilbau.

They came for three days.

Došli su na tri dana.

RSW: This is the computer building?

RSW: To je računalno konstruiranje?

FG: Yeah, the computer building.

FG: Je, računalno konstruiranje.

They were there three days and it rained every day

Bili su ondje tri dana i kiša je padala svaki dan...

and they kept walking around --

I oni su obilazili i obilazili --

I noticed they were looking under things

Primijetio sam da su zagledavali ispod,

and looking for things,

da su tražili koješta,

and they wanted to know where the buckets were hidden, you know?

željeli su doznati gdje su kante skrivene, znaš?

People put buckets out ...

Ljudi ostavljaju kante --

I was clean. There wasn't a bloody leak in the place,

Bio sam čist. Nije bilo jedne jedine pukotine;

it was just fantastic.

bilo je to jednostavno fantastično.

But you've got to --

Ali, morate --

yeah, well up until then every building leaked, so this ...

da, sve dotad svaka je građevina procurila, pa je ovo...

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

RSW: Frank had a sort of ...

RSW: Frank je...

FG: Ask Miriam!

FG: Pitaj Miriam!

RW: ... sort of had a fame. His fame was built on that in L.A. for a while.

RSW: ... na neki način bio slavan. Njegova je slava bila izgrađena na tome, neko vrijeme u L.A.-u.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

FG: You've all heard the Frank Lloyd Wright story,

FG: Svi ste čuli priču o Franku Lloydu Wrightu,

when the woman called and said,

kad je žena nazvala i rekla:

"Mr. Wright, I'm sitting on the couch

"G. Wright, sjedim na ležaju

and the water's pouring in on my head."

i voda mi se slijeva na glavu."

And he said, "Madam, move your chair."

A on je odgovorio: "Gospođo, pomaknite fotelju."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So, some years later I was doing a building,

Nekoliko godina kasnije gradio sam

a little house on the beach for Norton Simon,

kućicu na plaži, za Nortona Simona.

and his secretary, who was kind of a hell on wheels type lady,

Njegova tajnica, svojevrsna ženska Sodoma i Gomora,

called me and said,

nazvala me i rekla:

"Mr. Simon's sitting at his desk

"G. Simon sjedi za svojim stolom

and the water's coming in on his head."

i voda mu kaplje po glavi."

And I told her the Frank Lloyd Wright story.

Ispričao sam joj priču Franka Lloyda Wrighta.

RSW: Didn't get a laugh.

RSW: Nije se nasmijala?

FG: No. Not now either.

FG: Ne. Ni sada ovdje.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But my point is that ... and I call it the "then what?"

Ali, ono što sam želio reći... Nazvao sam to "I što sad?".

OK, you solved all the problems,

Dobro, riješili ste sve probleme,

you did all the stuff, you made nice,

napravili ste sve, lijepo to izveli,

you loved your clients,

voljeli ste svoje klijente,

you loved the city,

voljeli grad,

you're a good guy, you're a good person ...

dobar ste lik, dobra ste osoba...

and then what?

I što sad?

What do you bring to it?

Što tad činite?

And I think that's what I've always been interested in,

Mislim da je to nešto što me oduvijek zanimalo,

is that -- which is a personal kind of expression.

To je.-- neka vrlo osobna vrsta ekspresije.

Bilbao, I think, shows that you can have

Mislim da Bilbao dokazuje da se možete

that kind of personal expression

osobno izraziti

and still touch all the bases that are necessary

i pritom obuhvatiti sve što je nužno

of fitting into the city.

za uklapanje u grad.

That's what reminded me of it.

Na to me je to podsjetilo.

And I think that's the issue, you know;

I mislim da je tu problem, znaš;

it's the "then what" that most clients who hire architects --

taj "I što sad?" što većina klijenata koji angažiraju arhitekte --

most clients aren't hiring architects for that.

većina klijenata ne angažira arhitekte radi toga.

They're hiring them to get it done, get it on budget,

Angažiraju ih da realiziraju željeno, da to učine u okviru budžeta,

be polite,

da budu uljudni,

and they're missing out on the real value of an architect.

i tako propuštaju iskoristiti stvarnu vrijednost arhitekta.

RSW: At a certain point a number of years ago, people --

RSW: U određenom trenutku, prije dosta godina, ljudi --

when Michael Graves was a fashion, before teapots ...

dok je Michael Graves bio u modi, prije čajnika...

FG: I did a teapot and nobody bought it.

FG: Ja sam izradio čajnik i nitko ga nije kupio.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

RSW: Did it leak?

RSW: Je li propuštao?!

FG: No.

FG: Nije.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

RSW: ... people wanted a Michael Graves building.

RSW: ... ljudi su željeli kuću tipa "Michael Graves".

Is that a curse, that people want a Bilbao building?

Je li to kletva što ljudi žele zgradu poput Bilbaa?

FG: Yeah.

FG: Je.

Since Bilbao opened, which is now four, five years,

Otkad je otvoren muzej u Bilbau - sad je tome već četiri, pet godina -

both Krens and I have been called

i Krensu i meni ponudili su

with at least 100 opportunities --

barem stotinjak prilika --

China, Brazil, other parts of Spain --

u Kini, Brazilu, drugim dijelovima Španjolske --

to come in and do the Bilbao effect.

da dođemo i izazovemo "Bilbao-efekt".

And I've met with some of these people.

I susreo sam se s nekima od ovih ljudi.

Usually I say no right away,

Obično odmah kažem "Ne",

but some of them come with pedigree

ali neki od njih stignu s pedigreom

and they sound well-intentioned

zvuče dobronamjerno,

and they get you for at least one or two meetings.

i dobiju vas na barem jedan ili dva sastanka.

In one case, I flew all the way to Malaga with a team

U jednom slučaju, letio sam sve do Malage s timom,

because the thing was signed with seals and various

jer sve je bilo potpisano i zapečaćeno, među njima i

very official seals from the city,

nekim vrlo službenim gradskim pečatima.

and that they wanted me to come and do a building in their port.

Željeli su da dođem i izgradim zgradu u njihovoj luci.

I asked them what kind of building it was.

Pitao sam ih kakva je to zgrada bila.

"When you get here we'll explain it." Blah, blah, blah.

"Kad stignete ovamo, objasnit ćemo Vam." Bla, bla, bla.

So four of us went.

I tako je nas četvero otišlo.

And they took us -- they put us up in a great hotel

Smjestili su nas u sjajan hotel,

and we were looking over the bay,

s pogledom na zaljev.

and then they took us in a boat out in the water

Povezli su nas čamcem

and showed us all these sights in the harbor.

i pokazali nam sve te njihove lučke vizure.

Each one was more beautiful than the other.

Svaka je bila ljepša od prethodne.

And then we were going to have lunch with the mayor

Potom smo trebali ručati s gradonačelnikom,

and we were going to have dinner with

pa onda i večerati s

the most important people in Malaga.

najvažnijim ljudima Malage.

Just before going to lunch with the mayor,

Netom prije odlaska na ručak s gradonačelnikom,

we went to the harbor commissioner.

posjetili smo lučkog upravitelja.

It was a table as long as this carpet

Bio je ondje stol dug poput ovog tepiha,

and the harbor commissioner was here,

i lučki upravitelj je bio tu,

and I was here, and my guys.

ja sam bio ovdje, i moji dečki.

We sat down, and we had a drink of water

Sjedili smo, popili vode,

and everybody was quiet.

i svi su utihnuli.

And the guy looked at me and said,

Čovjek me pogledao i rekao:

"Now what can I do for you, Mr. Gehry?"

"Što mogu učiniti za Vas, g. Gehry?"

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

RSW: Oh, my God.

RSW: O, Bože.

FG: So, I got up.

FG: Ustao sam.

I said to my team,

Rekao sam svom timu:

"Let's get out of here."

"Idemo odavde."

We stood up, we walked out.

Ustali smo i otišli.

They followed -- the guy that dragged us there followed us and he said,

Krenuli su za nama -- Tip koji nas je doveo, pratio nas je i rekao:

"You mean you're not going to have lunch with the mayor?"

"Znači li ovo da nećete na ručak s gradonačelnikom?"

I said, "Nope."

Rekao sam: "Nećemo."

"You're not going to have dinner at all?"

"Nećete ni na večeru?"

They just brought us there to hustle this group,

Doveli su nas onamo da izguramo tu grupu,

you know, to create a project.

znaš, da stvorimo projekt.

And we get a lot of that.

I toga ima dosta.

Luckily, I'm old enough that

Srećom, dovoljno sam star da se

I can complain I can't travel.

mogu požaliti kako ne mogu putovati...

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I don't have my own plane yet.

Nemam još vlastiti avion.

RSW: Well, I'm going to wind this up and wind up the meeting

RSW: Dakle, zaključio bih ovo i zaključio bih sastanak,

because it's been very long.

jer se poprilično oduljio,

But let me just say a couple words.

ali dopusti mi samo par riječi.

FG: Can I say something?

FG: Mogu li ja nešto reći?

Are you going to talk about me or you?

Hoćeš li govoriti o meni ili o sebi?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

RSW: Once a shit, always a shit!

RSW: Jednom govno, uvijek govno!

FG: Because I want to get a standing ovation like everybody, so ...

FG: Jer i ja, kao i svi, priželjkujem ovacije, pa...

RSW: You're going to get one! You're going to get one!

RSW: Dobit ćeš jedne! Dobit ćeš jedne!

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I'm going to make it for you!

Ja ću ti ih priuštiti!

FG: No, no. Wait a minute!

FG: Nemoj, nemoj! Pričekaj trenutak!

(Applause)

(Pljesak)